why!!! didmy jet die?

[bordsmnj]

just dropped a nice little 327 in my boat it siesed my impeller after the first hour. it has a 1978 bayjet that i know next to nothing about as i'm new to boating. what are common reasons why this happens ? i didn't do anything to the jet accept pump some maring grease into it. it used to vibrate when the hose was hooked up to it while running in the driveway trying to get the last motor dialed in.new motor has 325 hp. old motor-maybe 200.(305 chevy). I could used any advice,opinions or answer questions on needed info.-if i can. i need clues and am leary of taking the thing apart. but i get the motor back in a week or two. Gotta fix it.

[Jungle Boy]

Time to do some homework. Remove the bowl and check to see if anything is jammed in the impeller and pump body. Did you check the main bearing before installing the engine? If not, remove the drive shaft and check to see if the main shaft spins smoothly and without grinding action. Any forward/backward or up/down motion is not good. Does the impeller and wear ring still fit nice without any signs of heavy wear patterns. All of this can be done by a backyard guy with a minimum of tools. Also, when you were running a hose while playing with your motor, you were probably doing damage to the impeller and wear ring, because that doesn't get wet (lubed). Don't do that with the driveshaft still hooked up. Have fun.
[ August 28, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Jungle Boy ]

[LVjetboy]

Think Jungle's right on.
"Used to vibrate" with hose and last motor dial-in? Maybe not a good thing. Could've been excessive rear journal clearance and/or impending thrust bearing problems. Something extra grease will not cure. Then drop in a higher hp engine = even more stress = lockup. My guess lubing the thrust bearing had nothing to do with the failure so look elsewhere. From what you said so far. If you know the pump locked then you (or someone) will be taking it apart no question. Before jumping to conclusion tho one question: If you know your pump siezed, why's the engine in the shop?
jer
[ August 28, 2002, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[bordsmnj]

well,the motor was brand new and i think that the extra load caused by a siesing impeller caused the damamage to it .Or it was put togather wrong. either way the motor guy is repairing it free of labor charges .just charging for what ever new parts i need. pulling the motor out tonight. had him over yesterday to look at it and the shaft of the impeller still spins but not the impeller itself. it is wedged/welded in place. is it possible that i might not have to change out the whole bowl ? or is that the way it's done?? thanks for the input sofar guy's and "doing home work" is right. Is "Bayjet" even around still? i think i'm going to need some parts ( duh ) from them.any more input,info, opinions or .02$ ? i'm all ears. thanks again

[MikeF]

B, From what I understand, Jack @ MPD ended up buying all the parts from Bayjet when they went out of business. I don't think he has any parts now as they are probably all gone. But he does have experience w/ them! He can be reached @ MPD #9496312040. He is located in So Cal. He has been building an rebuilding pumps for at least 25yrs+. Good Luck, Mike

[MikeF]

Slow server...impatient poster....oops.
[ August 29, 2002, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: MikeF ]

[Jungle Boy]

bordsmnj:
well,the motor was brand new and i think that the extra load caused by a siesing impeller caused the damamage to it .Or it was put togather wrong. either way the motor guy is repairing it free of labor charges .just charging for what ever new parts i need. pulling the motor out tonight. had him over yesterday to look at it and the shaft of the impeller still spins but not the impeller itself. it is wedged/welded in place. is it possible that i might not have to change out the whole bowl ? or is that the way it's done?? thanks for the input sofar guy's and "doing home work" is right. Is "Bayjet" even around still? i think i'm going to need some parts ( duh ) from them.any more input,info, opinions or .02$ ? i'm all ears. thanks againFrom what I'm understanding from reading your post is; Your engine is damaged, You have disconnected the driveshaft and can turn the pump shaft, but impeller don't spin or move. Sounds interesting!! Your impeller and wear ring have become welded together from excessive friction and your key seat has stripped the impeller ID. First thing you must do is get the impeller off the boat by what ever means it takes. Then you will need to remove the wear ring and inspect the pump body for damage. Then the shaft will need to be removed and checked / machined or replaced. While it's all apart you should change all seals and the thrust bearing. Sounds to me like you should do what you can to dissasemble the mess so you can learn a bit about the ways things work, then take it to someone with experience to check and re-assemble things. If possible, you should stay there and watch him do it so you can learn that to. A pump is a fairly simple thing to figure out and maintain, but to do it wrong can be costly. I am wondering about the state of your engine and what went wrong with it..????? Keep us posted and don't give up. Boating is lots of fun after the problems are ironed out.
jb :cool:

[dankirk]

Bordsmnj...This statement has me thinking, "the shaft of the impeller still spins but not the impeller itself. it is wedged/welded in place". This is very unusual. Are you looking through the nozzle when you are seeing the stuck impeller? If so, you are actually seeing the vanes in the bowl, and not the impeller. The vanes visable through the nozzle do not spin, they are there to straighten out the water stream. You need to look up through the intake from the bottom of the boat to see the impeller. I hope this is the case.
Good luck! Dan

[propless]

I'm baffled and I tend to side with DanKirk - are you really looking at the impeller and not vanes in the bowl?

[Jungle Boy]

propless:
I'm baffled and I tend to side with DanKirk - are you really looking at the impeller and not vanes in the bowl?I never thought of the possiblity of the bowl not being removed, but that does make sense. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[flat broke]

Ahh,
Dankirk didn't have to reach too far back in the memory banks to recall another such post where a guy mistakenly thought the vanes were the impeller. If the impeller is truly welded to the wear ring/suction housing and that small block broke the shaft free, the impeller would be toast and making a ton of noise. My guess is that the motor took a crap. I can't think of too many times I've heard of a pump siezing up like that.
Good luck to you,
Chris

[565edge]

flat broke:
Ahh,
Dankirk didn't have to reach too far back in the memory banks to recall another such post where a guy mistakenly thought the vanes were the impeller. If the impeller is truly welded to the wear ring/suction housing and that small block broke the shaft free, the impeller would be toast and making a ton of noise. My guess is that the motor took a crap. I can't think of too many times I've heard of a pump siezing up like that.
Good luck to you,
ChrisELIMINATYA was wide open in his southwind tunnel with a blown 572" chevy and it locked up,he thought he locked the motor up,the motor would not break loose,he pulled the motor and the pump would not turn,the bearings froze solid and shut the boat off,?it does happen but not that often. eek!

[bordsmnj]

boy,do i feel stupid. O.K. , maybe just new.i guess maybe me and the motor guy where fooled by these "vanes". we looked right up the ol' nozle. maybe he new and that's way he said he'd fix the motor? i doubt it.I took the motor out today and i'm dropin' it off at his shop tomorrow. before i go over i'll pull the bottom grating off and see what i can see. and actually it only spun freely with the motor attached and running,since i hadn't disconnected the motor yet. after hearing one of u guys mention that you only fool with the engine with it disconnected from the jet it dawned on me that theres an easier way to do that than pull the engine. that realizaion made me think a little and i pulled two of the u bolts out of the little univ. joint or what ever you call that thing that attaches to or is the spline.that made pulling the enging way easier. yuh dont' want to know what a pain it was the first time! had that thing out in an hour and a half. after getting the motor in the garage i called it a quits and didn't even grab the shaft to see if i could spin it. i didn't even see if the other half of the uv joint/splin thing is gonna slide off easy.sooo, more will be revealed. Man-o-man that would be great if it was just the engine alone and the jet is fine! thanks for the insight ,All. Now i have a direction.If the thing isn't messed up maybe i should think about preventative maintanence. Are impeller's brand name specific or would say,a berkely impeller work in a bayjet bowl and pump? o.k. that might be wishfull thinking but what about the bearings??well thanks again for all the help.i'll know more/have more to report before this weakend is over. Have a Bit@#en long weakend dudes!

[pops1]

bordsmnj:
have more to report before this weakend is over. Have a Bit@#en long weakend dudes!Make sure you check out T/Bearing
-Bay Jet has aweak frontal Bearing support design. Good T/Bearing is a must. You can use almost anyone's impeller if you need. Just make sure wear ring matches @ .025 clearance to impeller wear ring surface dia.Good Luck and Jetting-Dave

[bordsmnj]

good news! my impeller spins freely and doesn't have any play. I was definantly looking at the vanes before.thanks for the info on impellers and such,dave.So, the t(thrust)bearing is on the front of the impeller shaft and the wear ring is in back? i guess i'll find out soon enough. i'm gonna follow Jungle's advice and tear every thing apart neatly and have it put back togather by some one who knows what they're doing. Before i do i have yet more questions.how can i tell what type of impeller i have and what type SHOULD i have for a 325hp 327c.i. motor? oh, the boat is 17' long and probubly doesn't weigh a whole bunch.It is a 1978 sleekcraft V or shallow V. i think that probubly has alot to do with it.
Thanks again guys.....SOOO much to learn.