logs or header

[Raskal]

do they have thru trans headers for olds 455 :confused:

[Kindsvater Flat]

They sure do. Headers (http://www.rewarderheaders.com/search_result.asp?CATEGORY=ALL&MANUFACTURER=Thru-Transom&DESCRIPTION=&PRODUCT_ID=)

[Omega21]

Yup. Just bought a used set to boot. Good luck finding them though. It's the only set I saw in about 9 months!
Todd

[Raskal]

thanks for the help

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I am also looking for a set for my 455 olds. Mine are falling apart due to rust.
396

[Raskal]

what kind of horse power can you get over logs to headers

[jet4fun]

depends on combo, but youre talking about a lot less restriction.
you can also try bassett, i think they have olds tt headers, either way rewarder or bassett are both good

[GlastronGuy]

Raskal:
do they have thru trans headers for olds 455 :confused: Open or closed engine compartment?

[Raskal]

GlastronGuy:
Raskal:
do they have thru trans headers for olds 455 :confused: Open or closed engine compartment? open wife would like to keep them down

[GlastronGuy]

Raskal:
GlastronGuy:
Raskal:
do they have thru trans headers for olds 455 :confused: Open or closed engine compartment? open wife would like to keep them down I'd jump on a set of the Rewarders then. You can find them used but as Omega21 said they are few and far between.

[HOOTER SLED-]

Raskal:
do they have thru trans headers for olds 455 :confused: I'm confused, are you looking for thru transom logs???? If so, I have a pair that I may want to sell. If not, then disregard my stupidity.

[jet4fun]

HOOTER SLED-:
Raskal:
do they have thru trans headers for olds 455 :confused: I'm confused, are you looking for thru transom logs???? If so, I have a pair that I may want to sell. If not, then disregard my stupidity. from the sounds of it i think he may have ot headers right now and his wife wants to change to tt. and he is deciding to go with headers or logs??????

[Raskal]

well ihave logs now but pulled the motor to freshin up and would like to get more horse power and keep the wife happy its a win win argue

[jet4fun]

Raskal:
well ihave logs now but pulled the motor to freshin up and would like to get more horse power and keep the wife happy its a win win argue o.k. heres the real advice. since youve got that motor out dont spend another penny on it. use it as an anchor and get yourself a bbchevy. parts are cheaper & more common, and the motors are more reliable

[GlastronGuy]

jet4fun:
Raskal:
well ihave logs now but pulled the motor to freshin up and would like to get more horse power and keep the wife happy its a win win argue o.k. heres the real advice. since youve got that motor out dont spend another penny on it. use it as an anchor and get yourself a bbchevy. parts are cheaper & more common, and the motors are more reliable Aw, any knuckle head can build a Chevy. It takes no skill or knowledge. Call up Summit, tell them how much HP you want and they'll send the parts. Olds are no more unreliable than any other brand. The difference is you have to know what you are doing. wink
EDIT
I will agree that Olds parts cost more. But look at it this way. You have two buckets. One is full of gold the other is full of dung. Which one are you going to get more money for? :)
[ February 05, 2003, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: GlastronGuy ]

[Omega21]

Oh boy.....here we go!
To go to a Chevy, you need new motor mounts, a block, a crank, heads, an intake, new headers, and on and on.
You've already got an Olds...so learn what it needs, and run it.
Todd

[GlastronGuy]

Omega21:
Oh boy.....here we go!
To go to a Chevy, you need new motor mounts, a block, a crank, heads, an intake, new headers, and on and on.
You've already got an Olds...so learn what it needs, and run it.
Todd jet4fun won't pick on me, I'll sic Bordenkircher on him. wink

[Raskal]

yah kind of like the olds it dose run good for me .it was all stock and still ran 59 mph on gps .so for now ill stick with it and just little things to make it better :D

[Omega21]

Uh...what's a bordenkircher? :D
Anyway, if you want to learn the details about the olds motor, spend some time on www.realoldspower.com (http://www.realoldspower.com)
The guys there know their stuff, and a bunch of them are racing Oldsmobiles themselves. 6000+ RPM BBO's are pretty common there.
Todd

[jet4fun]

GlastronGuy:
Omega21:
Oh boy.....here we go!
To go to a Chevy, you need new motor mounts, a block, a crank, heads, an intake, new headers, and on and on.
You've already got an Olds...so learn what it needs, and run it.
Todd jet4fun won't pick on me, I'll sic Bordenkircher on him. wink the only reason i recommend this is because by the time you make that olds really run its gonna cost you. he's lookin into headers which is gonna be a sizeable investment, and thats just the beginning. a friend of mine was in this predicament a while back, and what he did was sell his motor and engine mounts and everything to someone... he then used this money to buy chevy motor mounts headers etc... then he got a deal on a slightly used bbc. right off the bat he was faster, and he now had a better foundation to build off of.
total cost after the smoke cleared was about $1000. youre gonna spend over half that just gettin the headers.
oh yeah, tell bordenkircher jonsson says hi. i'm guessing youre from around here, we should hook up sometime.
[ February 05, 2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: jet4fun ]

[jet4fun]

GlastronGuy:
jet4fun:
Raskal:
well ihave logs now but pulled the motor to freshin up and would like to get more horse power and keep the wife happy its a win win argue o.k. heres the real advice. since youve got that motor out dont spend another penny on it. use it as an anchor and get yourself a bbchevy. parts are cheaper & more common, and the motors are more reliable Aw, any knuckle head can build a Chevy. It takes no skill or knowledge. Call up Summit, tell them how much HP you want and they'll send the parts. Olds are no more unreliable than any other brand. The difference is you have to know what you are doing. wink
EDIT
I will agree that Olds parts cost more. But look at it this way. You have two buckets. One is full of gold the other is full of dung. Which one are you going to get more money for? :) ya ever heard the saying "chroming a turd"? its not about any moron knowing how to build a chevy, its about dollars and cents. i can make an olds go fast too, but you got to do so many things to it to make it really hi-perf (especially with the oiling issues). and it ends up costing more, and takes more work. im not an idiot that doesnt know how to make an olds go fast, i'm just an idiot that doesnt like to do more work than i have to achieve a goal, and if theres an easier and less expensive way that has been proven over and over then thats what i'm gonna do.

[Omega21]

Like I said : Here we go!
:D
In the interest of keeping this lighthearted & not stirring up any Olds vs Chevy bashing thing, I'm bowing out.
Todd

[jet4fun]

no bashing,i'm not like that. i'm just having some fun wink my friends all tell me i should have joined the debate team in high school argue . just friendly arguing though :D

[GlastronGuy]

jet4fun:
no bashing,i'm not like that. i'm just having some fun wink my friends all tell me i should have joined the debate team in high school argue . just friendly arguing though :D Agreed. You have to stir the pot once in a while. wink

[HOOTER SLED-]

Brand new Olds logs cost me around $1100. I had to learn the hard way about Olds and the oil issues they have. If you know this stuff from the get go, then you can build it right. I just ended up buying another boat(I wanted a bigger and newer one anyway). Oh, did I mention it has a Chevy? Sorry 455 Olds, time to put you to rest. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Marlin455]

I also own a 455 Olds motor that is currently being freshened up( new rings, bearings, hotter cam, etc.) As far as the oiling problems, I have drilled and tapped the heads for external oil returns, ported the factory oil return holes,main gallery restrictors, and restricted pushrods, a stock(NOT high volume) blueprinted oil pump and will be using a higher volume oil pan. The major oiling problems are too much oil staying in the top end of the motor at high rpm, and oil temp skyrockets after an extended high rpm run. I plan to put an oil cooler on the motor also. After all is said and done, I should have well over 450 hp at 5000 rpm, at a cost of roughly $200 over the basic re-ring kit for the additional oil system mods. I am not a die hard Olds fan, but am on a tight budget(ask my wife! LOL), so am trying to get the most out of what I got! This motor was bone stock, turned 43-4400 all day, and pushed my heavy 18' Marlin about 55 mph. I am hoping for a little more with the fresh motor, and extensive hull work to remove the hook. Just my .02- Flame away!!! :D Thanks, Stan

[jet4fun]

HOOTER SLED-:
Brand new Olds logs cost me around $1100. I had to learn the hard way about Olds and the oil issues they have. If you know this stuff from the get go, then you can build it right. I just ended up buying another boat(I wanted a bigger and newer one anyway). Oh, did I mention it has a Chevy? Sorry 455 Olds, time to put you to rest. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: my man :D

[jet4fun]

Marlin455:
I also own a 455 Olds motor that is currently being freshened up( new rings, bearings, hotter cam, etc.) As far as the oiling problems, I have drilled and tapped the heads for external oil returns, ported the factory oil return holes,main gallery restrictors, and restricted pushrods, a stock(NOT high volume) blueprinted oil pump and will be using a higher volume oil pan. The major oiling problems are too much oil staying in the top end of the motor at high rpm, and oil temp skyrockets after an extended high rpm run. I plan to put an oil cooler on the motor also. After all is said and done, I should have well over 450 hp at 5000 rpm, at a cost of roughly $200 over the basic re-ring kit for the additional oil system mods. I am not a die hard Olds fan, but am on a tight budget(ask my wife! LOL), so am trying to get the most out of what I got! This motor was bone stock, turned 43-4400 all day, and pushed my heavy 18' Marlin about 55 mph. I am hoping for a little more with the fresh motor, and extensive hull work to remove the hook. Just my .02- Flame away!!! :D Thanks, Stan wait a minute, you mean to tell me you got the following items:
-hotter cam
-drill and tap heads for external oil returns
-ported factory oil return holes
-main gallery restrictors
-restricted pushrods
-stock blueprinted oil pump
-high volume oil pan
for $200 more than a basic re-ring kit? where ya gettin your deals? can you tell me so i can go there too?
i'm guessing you did the porting and tapping on your block yourself, what about the poor guy that doesnt know how to port oil returns?
you still havent bought your oil cooler :D :D :D
did anybody notice that if youre freshening up a bbc you wouldnt need any of the things on the list... except the cam(if you want to change it). you could put a new oil pump on if it made you feel a little better, but not mandatory either.
hey marlin, sorry i couldnt resist... btw does your wife know about your quote on the bottom of your post eek! :D
[ February 06, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: jet4fun ]

[Marlin455]

Jet- The $200 over the re-ring kit was for the oil fittings,return hoses, restrictors, pushrods, and a junkyard Toronado pan- I have the three point mounts, so I don't have the clearance under the pan for a big (10 qt.) pan. I did all the porting drilling and tapping myself with my drill press and die grinder. The oil cooler I got on E-bay dirt cheap used, just haven't installed it yet! As far as the oil cooler is concerned, any heavily flogged marine engine would benefit from one, even a BBC- and to freshen up a motor WITHOUT replacing the oil pump is like wiping your A$$ with $20 bills! wink And, last but not least- My NEW wife knows about my quote, but my EX doesn't(They still haven't found the body!LOL) Stan

[Raskal]

Happiness is seeing your ex-wife's picture on a milk carton.....and having an airtight alibi!!
now thats some funny shit :D

[jet4fun]

Marlin455:
Jet- The $200 over the re-ring kit was for the oil fittings,return hoses, restrictors, pushrods, and a junkyard Toronado pan- I have the three point mounts, so I don't have the clearance under the pan for a big (10 qt.) pan. I did all the porting drilling and tapping myself with my drill press and die grinder. The oil cooler I got on E-bay dirt cheap used, just haven't installed it yet! As far as the oil cooler is concerned, any heavily flogged marine engine would benefit from one, even a BBC- and to freshen up a motor WITHOUT replacing the oil pump is like wiping your A$$ with $20 bills! wink And, last but not least- My NEW wife knows about my quote, but my EX doesn't(They still haven't found the body!LOL) Stan so $200, a lot of junk yard searching, die grinding and drill&tapping that you wouldnt be doing if you had a chevy.
obviously you can make any motor fast and reliable. i am just trying to understand why some people absolutely INSIST on making their olds do what the chevys do right out of the box, and some people arent as fortunate as you in finding junk yard jewels and doing the manual labor themselves, so they pay out the ass.
i could take one of these honda engines that these guys are drag racing that make 700+ horsepower and stick it in my boat just so that i can tell everyone in the world that "i have a 700 horsepower honda engine in my boat yuk because i wanted to prove to the chevy guys that you dont need a chevy engine to go fast in a jet boat so ha ha, and i am cool because any knuckle head can make a chevy go fast but you gotta be good to make a honda powered jet boat go fast smile_sp "
but that would cost me tens of thousands more than a chevy configuration. and i am willing to bet that eveyone on these boards would think im a money wasting moron :mad: .
all im trying to tell people like you and raskal that have basically stock 455's that apparently seem to want to add more and more performance as time goes on is: stop what youre doing, dont spend any more money until you sell that 455 and get a 454 idea .
raskal is about to spend over 600-700 dollars just on a set of headers, he obviously isnt planning on stopping there. changing to a bbc would barely cost more than these headers and then he has a way better foundation to build off of. so here it goes...........have fun smile_sp
by the way, i was asking about the new wife, just wonering if it makes her nervous eek!

[jetaddict]

Ran my 455 all summer at 5500 rpm's.Still going strong.If you have an old's... run it. If you have a chevy... run it.. Just have fun!! :D

[jet4fun]

good point, i agree, and if you have an olds run it. i just hate to see people waste money on a money pit. run the olds until you can afford the motor swap. that buddy i was talking about that did the motor swap had his olds in the boat for 2 summers before he did it. but he did nothing to the olds because he was planning on the swap all along.

[HOSS]

Raskal, you say that your motor is stock. What changes are you making? If not much (carb and intake) nothing radical, don`t waste the cash on the headers. Bang for buck its not like a car. Alot more cash in a boat.

[Omega21]

Hmmph. I must be the only one who managed to find out that hot rodding my olds was cheaper than buying a chevy and hot rodding it....even after the $600 TT headers.
Todd

[mud duck]

What about 455 Olds TT headers for a "closed engine hatch"? I've seen a few TT headers that are water injected for open engine compartments. But that wont do for me. Do you have to have water jacketed headers for closed engine compartments?

[jet4fun]

Omega21:
Hmmph. I must be the only one who managed to find out that hot rodding my olds was cheaper than buying a chevy and hot rodding it....even after the $600 TT headers.
Todd how, can you give details?
i just always find it funny when people start talking about how they made their olds so badass and for so cheap, like marlin... but when you ask them how they tell you about all their junkyard & brother in law deals they got on parts and all the running around they did to get them, and they did all the labor themselves...
but when they talk about the chevy swap they compare it to buying all new parts and a new motor to do it.
of course that will be way more expensive.

[GlastronGuy]

jet4fun:
Omega21:
Hmmph. I must be the only one who managed to find out that hot rodding my olds was cheaper than buying a chevy and hot rodding it....even after the $600 TT headers.
Todd how, can you give details?
i just always find it funny when people start talking about how they made their olds so badass and for so cheap, like marlin... but when you ask them how they tell you about all their junkyard & brother in law deals they got on parts and all the running around they did to get them, and they did all the labor themselves...
but when they talk about the chevy swap they compare it to buying all new parts and a new motor to do it.
of course that will be way more expensive. I am sure it cost us more to build my Olds than it would have a Chevy. But money isn't the sole consideration for everything. I like that fact that it is different and I am not part of the "flock". If I was building a race boat, I'd go Chevy. But because of parts availability, not cost. Our boat is a little 18' deep V runabout with an E pump, thru transom packajet logs, Qjet and an enclosed engine compartment.
It looked like this;
http://home.attbi.com/~glastron_carlson/wsb/media/93515/site1006.jpg
Now looks like this:
http://home.attbi.com/~oldsmoboat/wsb/media/group/logo_org_pub.jpg
Rides wet as hell: Quick time video (http://homepage.mac.com/jmbo/.Movies/jetboatSet/zinkRun.mov)
http://home.attbi.com/~glastron_carlson/wsb/media/93515/site1029.jpg
And only does 62 MPH on GPS with a full bow tank, 2 people, ice chest and assorted gear. But we restored it from the ground up and are quite happy with it.
[ February 08, 2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: GlastronGuy ]

[Omega21]

Well, are you ready for a long post? I'm part way through my motor and I'll share what's going on so far. What I did/am doing is a pretty simple build, but nowhere near stock. If you hot rod the Olds, you HAVE TO BE PATIENT for your parts & think things through carefully! Otherwise you'll need a 2nd mortgage on your house. These are the main ingredients, details still being worked out.
Parts list:
Lower end:
-455 Nodular Iron Crank- already in the motor, stock piece. Heavy, but strong. You can get the forged steel 455 crank on eBay for $500 every once in a while...I didn't.
-beam polished 425 Olds steel rods- $100/120(? not 100% sure, been a while)- for sale forum on realoldspower.com
-Keith Black 222- 455 Pontiac pistons +.060- $130- rop.com again
-Switch to flexplate instead of flywheel- $18.50-eBay
-Crank scraper- free..friend had an extra.
This combination brings the Olds motor to 0 deck height, gains 19 ci(473/4 ci), and gives 11.3:1 (or so) compression with stock heads. Also lightens rotating weight some ridiculous amount like 25-30 pounds, which gains RPM capability over stock. Why the pontiac pistons? shorter pin height so you can use the 425 rod, olds & poncho valve reliefs line up, pin diameter the same as olds. Pin height with Olds 7 inch 425 rod=0 deck/boosted comp. 425 rod uses 455 bearings, and ARP 350 Olds bolts. Also makes engine oversquare..ie bore bigger than stroke... should help tilt the RPM "behavior" of the engine upward.
heads: still workin on all this stuff (this is just what I've worked out so far.)
-Ga, stock heads for cores. stock deep spring seats.
-Swirl cut SS race valves: 2.07/1.71 $130.00 Ferrea's on eBay.
-chrome moly full roller rockers: $190.00 (still lookin for deals though.)
Heads are at port shop currently. Awaiting valves to arrive to set valve seats. According to port guy, these heads will flow a little better than a stock Edelbrock head.
Camshaft:Working with Ultradyne on a solid lifter cam. Profile hasn't been determined due to waiting on solid head flow numbers. $170 cam & lifters.
Intake
-Edelbrock Torker 455, already on motor, match ports to heads when heads are done.
-850 Holley Center Squirter- $150-eBay..needs rebuilt.
Ignition-
-Olds 4 wire HEI- $20.00 -eBay/junkyard
-MSD "Ultimate HEI kit" -135.00-jegs (may go with 6al box instead though)
Headers- Rewarder 2 1/8 x4 TT headers. $600 includes shipping..sold the logs for $100..so $500.
Oil system mods: 12 qt pan $100-banderlog. The motor will have restricted pushrods & BIG external head drain tubes as well.
This engine, with the Edelbrock head flow numbers & a bigger Lunati cam profile does 572hp @ 6000 RPM on Desktop Dyno, with no NOS. According to Ultradyne should easily do more than that.
Known possible troubles:
Fuel: 11.3:1 with iron heads. Might just be a bit to much for 92/94 octane. 1 drawback from not buyin the Edelbrock head.
Valve seats: exhaust seat might conflict with intake seat area. Will have to wait for valves to check.
Warped block: designed for 0 deck to stock measurements. If head mating surface has to be cut to flatten it, then pistons stick out of the block. Crank would have to be offset ground slightly to a shorter stroke to get piston back down in the hole.
So far $1600.00,I'm figuring between $11 and $1300 for headwork, block machine work & other stuff like gaskets, timing chain, bearings, plug wires etc. I'll be in the motor for about $2900 and be sitting at 600 HP approx. A couple hundred more for a used 150 shot NOS system & it could theoretically pass 750 hp...but I haven't done any research to see if it'd work or just go kablooey.
Notice how much came from a Mondello catalog. Not bashing mondello or anything, but it makes more sense to do you homework, be patient and keep your money in your pocket.
Todd
P.S. their junkyard & brother in law deals they got on parts and all the running around they did to get them, and they did all the labor themselves...
Uh..never went to any junkyard. Just watched the forums & got the parts I needed.
[ February 08, 2003, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Omega21 ]

[Omega21]

"Also makes engine oversquare..ie bore bigger than stroke"
My bad..."makes engine closer to oversquare" is what I should have said..
doesn't quite make it past the 4.250 stroke.
Todd

[jet4fun]

GlastronGuy
I am sure it cost us more to build my Olds than it would have a Chevy. But money isn't the sole consideration for everything. I like that fact that it is different and I am not part of the "flock". If I was building a race boat, I'd go Chevy. But because of parts availability, not cost. Our boat is a little 18' deep V runabout with an E pump, thru transom packajet logs, Qjet and an enclosed engine compartment. [/QB]so you basically just proved what i am saying about this:
"i could take one of these honda engines that these guys are drag racing that make 700+ horsepower and stick it in my boat just so that i can tell everyone in the world that "i have a 700 horsepower honda engine in my boat because i wanted to prove to the chevy guys that you dont need a chevy engine to go fast in a jet boat so ha ha, and i am cool because any knuckle head can make a chevy go fast but you gotta be good to make a honda powered jet boat go fast"---and also to be different.
omega, thank you very much also. you too have proved exactly what i have said here:
"i just always find it funny when people start talking about how they made their olds so badass and for so cheap, like marlin... but when you ask them how they tell you about all their junkyard & brother in law deals they got on parts and all the running around they did to get them, and they did all the labor themselves..."
thank you for the detailed parts description. true you may have not gone to an actual junkyard, but what i was referring to when i said that was all the running around, wheelin & dealin, e-bay, banderlog, classifieds, friend that had an extra etc... shopping around. you even listed in your descriptions that a junkyard is one place you can get the parts.
by the way, youve spent 3 grand (with some hardcore patience and wheelin & dealin)to upgrade a complete motor to make just under 600 hp... how in the world do you figure that thats cheaper than doing it with a BBC :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Sleek-Jet]

I would like to see anyone build a reliable 600 hp motor for under $3,000, without a bottle or blower, especially if you have to come up with a core to start (i.e. converting from an olds to a chevy). Big blocks are kind of hard to come by, most junk yards that I have talked to want close to a grand for a run-out one. GM want $3,500 for a new short block.
Car-Craft did a series on big blocks a few months back, and between all the makes there was only several hundred dollars difference. And if memory serves, the total cost hovered around $5,000 for all of them.
My brother is finishing up his small block for his Chevelle. DTD pegs the hp rating at about 500. He did alot of his own head work, used head cores that he got from a machine shop, and even scrounged up some high dollar valves that the machine shop was going to throw out. Even without a bunch of machining on the block he has over $3,000 in the engine.
Omega 21 has the right idea. Use what you have, know it's limits, and just enjoy it. Either that or get out the check book. And for all the Chevy guys out there, big blocks have a nasty habit of eating cams (I have one that just loves 'em), so nothings perfect.
[ February 09, 2003, 03:53 AM: Message edited by: Sleek-Jet ]

[Omega21]

"how in the world do you figure that thats cheaper than doing it with a BBC?"
How do you figure it's not?
Dump the olds, then buy the chevy, and all the stuff that goes with it. Isn't that what you suggested? While you're out there monkeying around with finding an engine, a set of mounts, and your driveshaft flange, the olds guy will already have $5-800 of his parts for his engine. If you stick with your "no junkyard" theology, the Olds guy will be $1600 ahead of you right away.
"i just always find it funny when people start talking about how they made their olds so badass and for so cheap, like marlin... but when you ask them how they tell you about all their junkyard & brother in law deals they got on parts and all the running around they did to get them, and they did all the labor themselves..."
So just exactly how would you do it anyway? Jegs? PAW? Summit? Alrighty..let's look.
BBC Eagle steel rods from Jegs are $389.99. Or I can get steel 425 rods for a BBO for $100 from ROP.
-Cranks? Forged steel BBC $749.99 Jegs, steel 425 BBO...$125-150 ROP (short stroke), forged 455 (longer stroke), $500.00
-Pistons BBC/SRP flats-485.00 from Jegs. Keith Black BBP/BBO flats- $125.00 from ROP.
So, who's the money wastin fool?
I'm not bashing you or anything and I really don't want you to take it that way. But what you're saying doesn't add up on a calculator very well if I understand you right. Also it seems it would take just as long to do, because the olds guy didn't have to chase down a motor.
Sleek, as far as making a "reliable" 600 hp big block, just to be fair, let's put it into perspective. 600HP/474 ci=1.26 hp/ci. Apply that to a 350 and you have 430HP. Your brother's motor is an even bigger stretch than that. Sounds like one bad little SBC! I saw the Big Block Shootout, and I was kind of disappointed with it really. I would have thought there was alot more power they could have pulled out of ALL of those engines.
Todd

[Sleek-Jet]

Omega, I agree with you on the Car-Craft build ups, I thought they could have wrung more power out of everything also, almost made me want to go buy a buford!
About the $3,000 dollar thing, my point was that I here a lot of people talking about building motors for $1500 or $2000 (especially bow-tie people) and then they say how much HP it's putting out. There is no way it would be reliable for that unless you owned the parts house or a machine shop. It's gone so far at times that I have asked for proof (show me the dyno sheet or time slip, then we'll talk, no takers though). You're the only one that I have seen lately that has listed, in detail, what he has done to his motor and how much it costs. Keep us posted, all us Olds guys have to stick together!! :D
[ February 09, 2003, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Sleek-Jet ]

[Omega21]

Okay, now I'm confused. I just read one of his other posts that says:
but when they talk about the chevy swap they compare it to buying all new parts and a new motor to do it.
of course that will be way more expensive.
No kidding? Where you gettin your parts then? Junkyards, brothers in law, and the forums are off limits I thought? Swap meets maybe? Magic wand? :-)
Todd

[Sleek-Jet]

I just tried closing my eyes, clicking my heals, and saying "I want a big block chevy" three times...
The F*cking witch must have hid it somewhere, I looked all over the house, can't find it.
[ February 09, 2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Sleek-Jet ]

[Omega21]

Hehehe :D

[jet4fun]

ok, ok everybody slow down here...
if you read ALL of my posts you will get what i am talking about. here are some quotes from previous posts:
QUOTE---the only reason i recommend this is because by the time you make that olds really run its gonna cost you. he's lookin into headers which is gonna be a sizeable investment, and thats just the beginning. a friend of mine was in this predicament a while back, and what he did was sell his motor and engine mounts and everything to someone... he then used this money to buy chevy motor mounts headers etc... then he got a deal on a slightly used bbc. right off the bat he was faster, and he now had a better foundation to build off of. total cost after the smoke cleared was about $1000. youre gonna spend over half that just gettin the headers.---QUOTE no silly, dont dump the olds, sell it and use the money towards the swap. duh idea
QUOTE---ya ever heard the saying "chroming a turd"? its not about any moron knowing how to build a chevy, its about dollars and cents. i can make an olds go fast too, but you got to do so many things to it to make it really hi-perf (especially with the oiling issues). and it ends up costing more, and takes more work. im not an idiot that doesnt know how to make an olds go fast, i'm just an idiot that doesnt like to do more work than i have to achieve a goal, and if theres an easier and less expensive way that has been proven over and over then thats what i'm gonna do.---QUOTE
QUOTE---but when they talk about the chevy swap they compare it to buying all new parts and a new motor to do it.---QUOTE all i was saying here is that when you guys talk about your great deals on hot rodding your olds you give us your wheelin & dealin prices, then you say this is cheaper than doing it with a chevy... really? where you gettin your chevy prices? brand new? yeah thats what i thought... there is nothing wrong with wheelin & dealin, i do it all the time, you missed my point.
these are just some of my quotes but you guys really should read all of them because you guys obviously think that i am sayin that it is cheaper to throw the olds in the trash and build a chevy with all new parts and mounts etc... for less than hot rodding the olds... um no, thats not what i am sayin, sorry you were mistaken.
btw sleek, sorry about your cam eating issue, maybe you should replace your cam bearings? something definetly sounds messed up. but i dont understand how i know several people including myself that have ran the same cam for YEARS and never ate one up :confused:
[ February 10, 2003, 12:48 AM: Message edited by: jet4fun ]

[mud duck]

Are we done with the little cock fight here? I am still curious if there are headers available for the 455 Olds made for under engine hatch covers? Also, do they have to be water jacketed to go under engine hatch covers? Every 455 TT header I've seen has a disclaimer that states "to be used with open engines only". I do not think Lightning makes any for the 455. Why? :confused:

[DansBlown73Nordic]

Because everybody else is running Big Block Chevys... :D

[roostwear]

Dan,
That wasn't your big block Chevy with the ventilated block was it?

[Omega21]

Are we done with the little cock fight here? I am still curious if there are headers available for the 455 Olds made for under engine hatch covers? Also, do they have to be water jacketed to go under engine hatch covers? Every 455 TT header I've seen has a disclaimer that states "to be used with open engines only". I do not think Lightning makes any for the 455. Why?
I've never seen a water jacketed header for the 455. Most likely because the newer boats with enclose compartments are all BBC. Most of the 455's that were put in boats were open engine compartment, or fitted with logs. I don't honestly think there would be enough of a market for the water jacketed 455 headers due to that reason.
As far as whether a water injected header could be used in an closed compartment, well...I wouldn't do it. But that doesn't mean you can't.

[Omega21]

Oh yeah, and as far as the cockfight, I'm finished. It's just gonna go around and around and around & not really prove anything anyway. jet4fun I'll make you a deal. While you're trying to sell that Olds for enough money to cover your Chevy mounts, you can ride in my boat. :D
Todd

[jet4fun]

Dans66Stevens:
Because everybody else is running Big Block Chevys... :D idea ROTFLMAO wink

[jet4fun]

mud duck:
Are we done with the little cock fight here? I am still curious if there are headers available for the 455 Olds made for under engine hatch covers? Also, do they have to be water jacketed to go under engine hatch covers? Every 455 TT header I've seen has a disclaimer that states "to be used with open engines only". I do not think Lightning makes any for the 455. Why? :confused: call bassett, i know they have them for chevy :D if he doesnt have them for olds he should know if there is anyone on this planet that does, try rewarder too.

[Sleek-Jet]

Jet4Fun, I don't know why my 396 eats cams either. It's an old block, one of the first Mark IV's (out of '66 Chevelle). I have been told these early blocks had oiling problems around the cam, and thus were known to eat cams. I don't know if it's BS or not, but the lobes are gone whenever I change the cam, usually after about 40,000 miles.
I am currently looking for a newer block, the one I have is about at the end of it's rope (I can't bore it out anymore). Any lines on a seasoned Mark IV block, drop me a line.
It's been fun "debating" with you, I owe you a beer one of these days. Saw the picture of you boat, pretty sweet.

[jet4fun]

Omega21:
Oh yeah, and as far as the cockfight, I'm finished. It's just gonna go around and around and around & not really prove anything anyway. jet4fun I'll make you a deal. While you're trying to sell that Olds for enough money to cover your Chevy mounts, you can ride in my boat. :D
Todd well i will take it that i won then argue cool :D i personally think i proved a lot so i'm happy...
one quik question before i finish... if you feel so confident in the olds, and are so determined to prove that it is better than a chevy, and are willing to sink thousands into it..........then why do you think i couldnt even sell an olds for enough money to even buy the chevy mounts(doesnt sound like a whole lot of confidence to me)................anyway my buddy that sold his STOCK olds got 1200 just for the motor(dont forget he sold the mounts too), that was enough to buy the BRAND NEW mounts, headers, and a bunch of other nick-nacks, and still apply some leftover to the cost of the motor... remember what i said "1000 spent after the smoke cleared" that included buying a mild engine with a newer rebuild...
while were finishing this off i hope that everyone read this post, and i hope to see all of you on the lake, no matter what you run: QUOTE----- no bashing,i'm not like that. i'm just having some fun my friends all tell me i should have joined the debate team in high school . just friendly arguing though -----QUOTE
[ February 10, 2003, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: jet4fun ]

[jet4fun]

Sleek-Jet:
Jet4Fun, I don't know why my 396 eats cams either. It's an old block, one of the first Mark IV's (out of '66 Chevelle). I have been told these early blocks had oiling problems around the cam, and thus were known to eat cams. I don't know if it's BS or not, but the lobes are gone whenever I change the cam, usually after about 40,000 miles.
I am currently looking for a newer block, the one I have is about at the end of it's rope (I can't bore it out anymore). Any lines on a seasoned Mark IV block, drop me a line.
It's been fun "debating" with you, I owe you a beer one of these days. Saw the picture of you boat, pretty sweet. no problemo, nice debating with you too :D anyway i may have a line on a block (not a 396 but a BBC) i'll try to ask my buddy tomorrow and see if its for sale and for how much... it may be the block only or it may be a "short block", if it is the short block then the crank rods & pistons are brand new, never even assembled
oh yeah, thank you for the boat compliment :D
[ February 10, 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: jet4fun ]

[Omega21]

well i will take it that i won then cool i personally think i proved a lot so i'm happy...
Oh yeah...you proved a ton. wink
Todd
[ February 10, 2003, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Omega21 ]

[jet4fun]

Omega21:
well i will take it that i won then cool i personally think i proved a lot so i'm happy...
Oh yeah...you proved a ton. wink
Todd hey wait a minute, what about my response to this?
QUOTE-----jet4fun I'll make you a deal. While you're trying to sell that Olds for enough money to cover your Chevy mounts, you can ride in my boat.-----QUOTE

[Omega21]

The offer is still open, but you have to take your boots off. You've got too much BS on them.
Todd

[Duke]

i wanna know about the 700hp honda engine in a boat!

[jet4fun]

Omega21:
The offer is still open, but you have to take your boots off. You've got too much BS on them.
Todd well thank you for the offer :D , but
#1 if i had an olds for sale i wouldnt be too worried about selling it, there are plenty of people out there like you that are willing to buy one after they smoke their old one, like i said my buddy got 1200
#2 i already own a boat that runs just fine, actually i went out and played on it yesterday
you are welcome to come out with me while you are still rounding up the parts you need and putting everything together wink

[jet4fun]

Duke:
i wanna know about the 700hp honda engine in a boat! well unfortunately i am a loser and i stay with the masses, i just dont have the balls to be different like all the brave oldsmobile owners out there smile_sp ... if you need me i will be out on the lake running WOT for more than 3 seconds with the flock in my BBC powered boat that runs great all the time wink

[Marlin455]

"I just don't have the balls to be different like all the Olds owners out there" :rolleyes: I guess it's good to know your limitations!! ROFLMAO!

[jet4fun]

Marlin455:
"I just don't have the balls to be different like all the Olds owners out there" :rolleyes: I guess it's good to know your limitations!! ROFLMAO! well, looks like my secret is out boxed i am way too much of a pussy to run an olds in my boat, i am so embarassed, if you see me on the lake please dont make fun of my chevy motor, its a personal problem that i deal with :D

[GlastronGuy]

http://www.velocitypaintball.com/OldsPage/ImageFile/ROP.jpg

[Raskal]

now thats some power

[jet4fun]

must be for a jet boat

[malcolm]

Uh, just one more thing, Chevys suck! J/K :D