Sad News . . .

[Havasuvian]

I regret to report yet another loss of life in the Bridgewater Channel at Lake Havasu. The body of 26-year old Timothy Eugene Heck of Fontana, CA was discovered in about 8 feet of water some 30 feet from shore just south of the London Bridge Resort. His body was discovered by a recreational diver just before 4:30am Labor Day Monday. According to witnesses, Heck was last seen wading in the Channel drinking with friends at sometime between noon and 2pm Sunday. There were no outward signs of trauma to the body and an autopsy will be conducted, including blood toxicology tests, to help investigators determine why Heck apparently drowned.
Personal Sidenote:
The circumstances surrounding this incident are virtually identical to those related to the Memorial Day incident where carbon monoxide (40.6%)and alcohol (0.19%) were listed as contributing factors.
If these toxicology tests show similar results, I believe Heck's death will spark emotional debate in this community and others regarding how authorities can (will, should, must) protect Channel users and the boating public. I am interested to hear your (sincere) suggestions on what you think is the best solution, particularly regarding the carbon monoxide poisoning issue. You are welcome to PM me if you do not wish to post your ideas here.
My deepest sympathies go out to Mr. Heck's friends and family for thier tragic loss.
Thanks -
Charlie

[Just Tool'n]

Sorry to hear the sad news.
I have paid very close attention over the last few years on the carbon monixide issue.
I know that back in 96 rented a house boat at the delta, jumped off the back end, & felt a little lite headed.
I knew it was too early in the AM to be from drinking, thought it was part of a hang-over.
Then started reading accounts in the paper about houseboat drownings , & the tie-in to carbon monixide poisionings.
I take this stuff seriously, now that I have the resposablity for 2 boys 4 & 5 years of age.
My 91 28ft eliminator eagle has swim platform on the back like most popular models nowdays have. With the thru transom exhaust just under this platform I make the kids wait 1/2 hour before they get in the water after I have turned off the motor, just to be safe.
My thoughts are you can never be to careful.

[summerlove]

You've heard this from me before - restrict the channel on weekends between april 1 and Sept 30 to boats only - no PWC's. They are the biggest offender. The PWC's blow so much crap into the aire that 1 hour on one of these createds as much pollition as a car that's travelled 100K miles. I love PWC's, use them all the time on Lake Powell, but not Havasu. Good luck Charlie!

[NashvilleBound]

Ya, NO LAKE LICE!!! :D
I love good drama!

[JetBoatRich]

This sucks, something will be done about the crap in the air and drinking, I am sure the authorities will make sure of that in the future devil

[Mandelon]

It will be a tough line for them to walk. They made the most tourist dollars ever this year so they don't want to drive us away, but if they close the sandbar and Copper Canyon where do they expect everyone to go???
I read a suggestion that they limit traffic to one way for big weekends. That might make a difference, along with a no idling motor while stopped rule.

[Boatcop]

Read up on CO. It's invisible. You can't smell it or taste it.
The exhaust you see from 2 strokes is unburned oil and gas. A pollutant, yes. But contains less CO than a properly tuned V8. CO is a product of combustion. All engines produce it, as does gas space heaters, gas BBQs, hot water heaters, even charcoal BBQs.
Most CO in the channel is made by the boats beached and left idling to run stereos, or just floating and idle rather than moving through the channel.
This is a serious health hazard. No matter what LHC does to try and alleviate the problem,(and believe me, they will do SOMETHING) will be unpopular with a lot of people.

[Jrocket]

Boatcop:
This is a serious health hazard. No matter what LHC does to try and alleviate the problem,(and believe me, they will do SOMETHING) will be unpopular with a lot of people. Oh I bet alot of people will be pissed!Alive but pissed nonetheless.

[Havasuvian]

You are correct on all counts, Alan. PWC's commonly take the rap for poor air quality simply because you can see their smoke. If that smoke is hanging in the air, you can believe there is CO in there with it, but it's not the smoke that will kill you, it's the CO. As Boatcop said, CO is a byproduct of combustion from burning fossil fuels. Which burns more fossil fuel in an equal length of time, an HTM, or a PWC? I think we have two problems to solve on this issue:
1 - How do we limit the amount of emissions?
2 - How do we limit the amount of exposure?
Charlie

[Jrocket]

Havasuvian:
I think we have two problems to solve on this issue:
1 - How do we limit the amount of emissions?
2 - How do we limit the amount of exposure?
Charlie Take the producer out of the equation,unfortunately. :( Less number of producers will be the answer.

[Seadog]

Without a total ban, the most practical means is to keep the boats moving. That means getting rid of the parked boats slowing traffic.

[burbanite]

This is Charlie's second go around here with this issue, last time he got his ass (unjustifiably) jumped by some. This is a guy who may be able to help see some semblance of sense prevail.
This may be your final chance to have input before someone takes it out of your hands.
Take it seriously.

[Jrocket]

People arent going to be happy with what I say but oh well.
People are going to have to put safety and life above partying and socializing.Atleast a couple of weekends out of the year but this would still be a problem for some ,until somebody they loved ended up hurt or dead.Take it for what you want.

[Froggystyle]

This is going to suck for some, but if plain and simple to me.
Channelized area creates hazardous gas collection issues.
A) Remove/reduce emitters in channelized area.
B) Increase air and water circulation in channelized area.
C) Introduce a neutralizing or displacing agent. Or...
D) Require protection for those operating in said channelized area.
Obviously, A) is the only logical choice. You cannot dictate weather patterns or airflow, there is no cost-effective scrubber we can position on in the channel to neutralize the CO, and people are not going to wear gas masks and stop drinking on their own. The only choice is to regulate exposure by people (protecting your neighbor from himself, lowering the standards to that of the lowest common denominator) by legislating them out of the area, or decreasing boat traffic.
This is not taking into consideration the toxic level of biological excrement in the channel either. So it isn't just the boats that causes problems, people are getting sick because of all the piss and other good stuff in the water too.
Basically, it is a cess pool. Too many boats, too many people for a channellized area. Since people aren't taking the hint, we get to live with a couple more laws.
Hope you guys dig hanging out in the channel enough to lose it.
This is just like the porn on the forums. People are so hung up on doing selfish shit that they take no consideration for anyone else, and it ends up causing the end of it all.
Well done folks.
Froggy"ain'tparkedinthechannelorCoppercanyonintwoyears"style

[locogringo]

It's too bad to hear that. My condolences.
However I don't get this part...
His body was discovered by a recreational diver just before 4:30am Labor Day Monday. What kind of recreational diver is it that dives at 4:30 in the morning?

[missboatnam1]

hi loco!!! i think they probly got called late at night, and probly the only time the water is clam enouf to search for someone is night expecilly on labor day!! i might be wrong though!!!..my thoughts here, im a parker person, but when i went thru havasu, i got sick from the fumes, and i felt relly bad for all the youngies there, they dont know to get away from that crap.....i say, so many boats per day allowed on the channel, with a pass, kinda like the pit pass to the races.........thats my .02...
my heart goes out to this kid, 21, thats when life is just begaing, thats really sad frown

[Just Tool'n]

To Alan (Boatcop), Has the city ever taken a gas analyzer down to the channel on a busy weekend like this one.
Just curious on how much the level goes up due to increase usage.

[missboatnam1]

im not alan, but yes they do...they walk around taking test...even in the boys room!! so i have heard, and i heard its not pretty!!..ever notice the little boxes attached to there belts!!! yep thats them!! :D ( i think) please correct me if im wrong alan!!

[randy77zt]

i only goto havasu once a year but i think the channel should be one way only and no idleing engines.as far as boat vs pwc emissions most of the newer pwc's are efi.i have a smog license so i know what makes smog.anything with a big camshaft makes major smog idling.when some of the more powerfull boats get rid of carbs and goto to lap top tuneable efi systems it will help.all those old holley carbs with blown power valves dont help much.if you have a cool looking boat you just want to cruise the channel and check out the ladies.i aam guilty of that.and my merc 2.5 efi isnt very clean at idle either.but i think going 1 way would be easiest to try first before having thee government put smog devices on boats.

[Rexone]

duck pond and fishing only. problem solved eek!
seriously, I remember the first thread on this. If a voluntary solution doesn't happen (doubtful), expect some strong restrictions from the city coming up.
[ September 02, 2003, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Rexone ]

[missboatnam1]

rex for president!!! totally agree with you!! :D

[KrazyKa]

locogringo:
What kind of recreational diver is it that dives at 430 in the morning?I believe the kind that recover all of our lost sunglasses (and other semi-valuable items)and then sell them on the cheap side after the weekend. Wouldn't want to be below the surface with spinning props overhead during the day.

[missboatnam1]

KK>>> got any clavins???? J/K....nice to see someone brighten up a sore subject though!! wink

[Danhercules]

I know you want a sincere opionon. But, heres mine, Ya gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough.
I dont go to the channel partly cause of that reason. I am sick of the goverment telling me what to do. I know some is for the better and helps me stay alive, but some thigs just suck.
2 people died all summer in the channel from CO. How many died in wecks in cars due to people driving like A-holes? Why dont the Gov do more about that? Dont get me wrong, its sucks that people have died, but soon we will not be able to do anything. Thats why I like thay saying above...Ya gonna be dumb, ya gotta be tough. An old guy told me that once, That is what the thinking was back then, if some one got hurt cause he was stupid, he was taking a chance.
This is not how the world works anymore, I sure wish it was. The best thing to do I guess, it to close the channel. I dont go there much at all anyway, but it will suck for the people who love to go there, but going there, you are taking a risk. Would you put your kids at that risk? I would not.

[HavasuBarney]

How about
1. NO SWIMMING IN THE CHANNEL
2. INCREASE THE SPEED LIMIT TO 50 MPH.

[BiggusJimbus]

How about starting with an education campaign, see if there could be a voluntary reduction.
Inform people that sitting around idling their boats, idling around to charge up their batteries, or running their boats in a poor state of tune can create health risks and could in the future cause changes to the freedoms they have come to assume on the river.
Signs or flyers at the launch ramp. contact from L.E. Whatever is possible. Educate others on the water that you see contributing to the problem. Maybe stave off some punitive heavy handed response.
Couldn't hurt.

[bigq]

One way traffic plus an educational campaign. If you make it a law that people can only go one way, they will wonder why and pay more attention to the cause of the new law. If you just hand out fliers and such people won't read them. Maybe put up signs every 50ft or so telling people of the risk and have the rules posted:
one way traffic
no idling for battery charging
no wading off the back of running boats(stupid anyway)
I do have a question, does any of the new building going on in the channel having any effect on the airflow there?

[Up 4 River]

Since I stay at the Isles at DMB place when I go to Havasu I know what you guys are talking about. On both SAturday and Sunday evening as we wrapped up the day I could see the layer of exhaust that was just sitting in the channell. That also seems to be the same time in the evening when some of the bigger boats start to rev their engines like it's a pissing contest as they go by on another. I do not know what the solution is or should be, but something neess to be done. There are more PWC out there each year and more boats are in the channel with twin engines each year also. Just figured I'd comment since I was there.
It is very sad to hear that another life was lost this weekend up there also.

[spectratoad]

locogringo:
It's too bad to hear that. My condolences.
However I don't get this part...
His body was discovered by a recreational diver just before 4:30am Labor Day Monday. What kind of recreational diver is it that dives at 4:30 in the morning? One that want to dive the channel with a lower risk of a prop across his backside.

[Boatcop]

There is testing going on. All city workers, including the PD, wear CO detectors when working in the area. There are also stationary testers set up in various places in and around the channel.
Signs are in place, and flyers and other information is being handed out.
Some one compared the deaths in the channel to traffic fatalities, says they're tired of Government intrusion, and the Govt. should do something about idiot drivers.
If I'm not mistaken, this is from the same mindset that thinks the CHP and other LE working the highways are Jerks and it's all about revenue, when all they're trying to do is keep the roads and waterways safe for YOU.
[ September 02, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Boatcop ]

[Havasuvian]

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. Boatcop is correct, Lake Havasu City is engaged in a study of the presence of CO in the Channel, where it is, how it behaves under varying atmospheric conditions and how it may be affecting public safety and other city workers who have to spend time in the Channel to do their jobs. The consultant hired to conduct the study is expected to prepare a report in October. We have been actively trying to educate our boating public through brochures handed out at the launch ramps, posters, signs at prominent locations along the Channel and by radio spots. Our LEOs do not allow boats to idle while beached, but they cannot be everywhere at all times. If test results indicate Mr. Heck's death was CO related, would one-way traffic have saved his life? I don't know if anyone can answer that question and we must come up with potential solutions that are quantifiable. Swimming in the Channel is already prohibited, but you probably won't get popped for it unless you try to swim to the other shore. CO is not a Lake Havasu City problem, it is a boating problem that comes to us on trailers. Yes, we have been attempting to educate, but I have to say, many of you just don't want to hear it. I was handing out brochures at Site Six with my 11-year old daughter Saturday, and I couldn't believe how rude people can be, especially to a child. I'm not being judgemental, just stating a fact and one more condition that we have to contend with on this issue.
Thanks for your input.
Charlie

[BiggusJimbus]

Well, sounds like you are doing what is possible.
Sad that people won't hear it.
Makes me glad I do my boating where I do.
Good Luck.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Havasuvian, your work, and that of the city, is certainly appreciated by some of us.

[Danhercules]

Boatcop:
Some one compared the deaths in the channel to traffic fatalities, says they're tired of Government intrusion, and the Govt. should do something about idiot drivers.
If I'm not mistaken, this is from the same mindset that thinks the CHP and other LE working the highways are Jerks and it's all about revenue, when all they're trying to do is keep the roads and waterways safe for YOU. This was me...........
You are mistaken, (or I said it poorly)
I am 100% pro LE. I know its not about $. My father-in-law is a reserve cop in the Phoniex area. Let me try again, I am just upset cause when some one dose somthing stupid, we all have to suffer. No matter what is done, your never gonna make everyone happy.

[Havasu Cig]

Site six, not to mention the lake in general, tends to attract the A$$holes on the holiday weekends. I saw quite a few scumbags in town this past weekend, and we did not even go boating.

[catsmeow]

[/QUOTE]Charlie, I'm sorry to say it but the general public as a whole are for the most part assholes. I'm not surprised that someone was rude to you, I'm am a little surprised that someone was rude to your little girl though. :(
Perhaps a better way then handing out flyers is a big sign at both entrances of the channel that sais something like..
"CARBON MONOXIDE POISENING KILLS"
Please turn off motors while sitting moored.
Then right about here a list of names
<Skull and Crossbones> Name and the date he died
<Skull and Crossbones> Name and the date he died
<Skull and Crossbones> Name and the date he died
<Skull and Crossbones> You??
That might awaken a few people?
I do think making it one way would certainly help to evacuate the gasses, as well as just help circulate the water in general. I think some of the biz owners would probably get pissed about it though as it might potentially affect there business.
Maybe one way in the morning and the other way in the evening? They do this with some lanes on the free way down here to help expediate commuter traffic.
RD <--- doesn't think it's impossible to solve this problem without more litigation... Or even expensive tests for that matter. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I like the sign and one way theory. Someone one posted above that if you change the channel to one way people will want to know why... that opens the education door. Big signs with skull and crossbones, names and dod's should open peoples eyes. If they still don't get it, then move to stronger action, like no PWC's or no traffic on busy weekends.
To be totaly honest... I didn't even know CO was a problem until I came to the boards a little over 4 months ago, and I've been going to the river and Havasu for years. It just goes to show you how little the rest of the world is educated on this type of thing.
That's just my 2cents.

[bigq]

Havasuvian:
Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. Boatcop is correct, Lake Havasu City is engaged in a study of the presence of CO in the Channel, where it is, how it behaves under varying atmospheric conditions and how it may be affecting public safety and other city workers who have to spend time in the Channel to do their jobs. The consultant hired to conduct the study is expected to prepare a report in October. We have been actively trying to educate our boating public through brochures handed out at the launch ramps, posters, signs at prominent locations along the Channel and by radio spots. Our LEOs do not allow boats to idle while beached, but they cannot be everywhere at all times. If test results indicate Mr. Heck's death was CO related, would one-way traffic have saved his life? I don't know if anyone can answer that question and we must come up with potential solutions that are quantifiable. Swimming in the Channel is already prohibited, but you probably won't get popped for it unless you try to swim to the other shore. CO is not a Lake Havasu City problem, it is a boating problem that comes to us on trailers. Yes, we have been attempting to educate, but I have to say, many of you just don't want to hear it. I was handing out brochures at Site Six with my 11-year old daughter Saturday, and I couldn't believe how rude people can be, especially to a child. I'm not being judgemental, just stating a fact and one more condition that we have to contend with on this issue.
Thanks for your input.
Charlie This is what I meant that people won't listen to you unless you give them a reason. RD is right and most are asses, that's what the bitch slap is for wink . If it was a law, even if only for a year, it would get some attention and have people take notice of the gases in the air.

[novaguy]

How about having someone monitor the CO level in the channel. If the Co level gets too high, shut down the channel traffic and open it back up again when the level goes back down to a safe level. Can this be done? I don't know, it's late and it sounded good. Either that or have mandatory co sensors installed on your boat. Or.....restrict channel traffic to boats carrying girls in g-strings or topless only :D :D .

[Seadog]

CO is more dangerous than most people think about. I was helping my BIL last Friday get his cruiser pumped out after it sank on the lift. While leaning down working on the lift, I started to feel light headed. It was then I realized that the exhaust from the Honda trash pump we were using was blowing the exhaust to where it was being trapped between the boat and the dock. Can you imagine if someone had been swimming solo around that area?

[Freak]

Seadog:
CO is more dangerous than most people think about. I was helping my BIL last Friday get his cruiser pumped out after it sank on the lift. While leaning down working on the lift, I started to feel light headed. It was then I realized that the exhaust from the Honda trash pump we were using was blowing the exhaust to where it was being trapped between the boat and the dock. Can you imagine if someone had been swimming solo around that area? Yep I had my first run in with CO when I was 12. My dumass stepfather decided to cut a channel in the concrete floor of our basement to drain the condensate from the AC with no open windows. The old 5hp gas concrete cutter almost got him. I found him unconscious on the floor. He was a dick so I did stand on the stairs for a moment and decided if I should tell mom or go to bed. Unfortunately for everyone I got help. MOFO never even said thanks………
Dumb asses die every day. It's called thinning the herd. Since when is it everybody’s responsibility to keep them alive?
[ September 03, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Freak ]

[DickDanger]

**** the channel, and **** Havasu. I was perfectly content being home this weekend, enjoying a stress free BBQ with friends, and relaxing.
I can feel a rant coming on, and feel free to jump my ass. Here is the problem: How many ****ing people will this country, or this world for that matter hold? Every other animal specicies in the world has a checks and balances system concerning overpopulation, except for one: human beings, the "superior" race. We as a society are headed to our own demise, and yet no one sees it. How can ANYONE enjoy going to any popular spot in the U.S. without facing overcrowding? And it continues to grow worse. Feel free to bash me, rip my ass, etc. but if you dont see what I speak of, you need to open your eyes wider.
As far as Havasu goes, yes, 2 strokes do emit more emissions than 4 strokes do. What is the answer? I dont have one. How many more people need to die in the channel before something is done? I am sure that a study is underway, but the solution is needed sooner, rather than later. If your boat is beached, turn the ****ing thing off. There are 400 stereos going full bore out there, does yours really need to be on as well? -Dick "Hates ****ing holiday weekends on the water" Danger Out

[91nordic29]

my 2 cents:
one way traffic is a good idea no matter how you look at it.
the signs RD spoke of are a great idea. like the white crosses on the highway or the sign at the kern river showing how many have drowned.
no idling while beached (isnt there some sort of noise ordinance anyhow?).
maybe a sign that chages with the level of CO (like those signs that show you your speed on some streets) and an explanation at the right (like the fire adnger signs). :confused:

[AzDon]

As I remember, Havasuvian is in a position of authority with an axe to grind on this subject, so we should all view this as a loaded question!
But since you asked,Charlie, here's my take!
The problem of idling boats and PWCs is gridlock caused by 2-way traffic and vessels in the act of being beached. I've seen very few beached boats idling! 99% of idling boats are trying to move thru the channel but are stopped because of the traffic jam. IMHO, the tourboats and rentals need to be based elsewhere, the 35 foot limit needs to be enforced, traffic should move northbound only and keep moving unless beaching.
BTW....PWCs probably emit more CO per square foot of occupied space and the big boats the least!
And while you're listening ,Charlie, A couple of other things need to be addressed regarding lake use and the crowds. I believe that the smaller crowds over the holiday could be attributed to the fact that articles from the local news regarding police preparations were posted all over the net and people simply stayed home to avoid all the hassles. We need to establish more legendary party spots like the sandbar, and ease up on the gestapo presence a little, and then maybe the crowds would disperse to the lake a little more.
[ September 03, 2003, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: AzDon ]

[twistedpair]

AzDon:
I believe that the smaller crowds over the holiday could be attributed to the fact that articles from the local news regarding police preparations were posted all over the net and people simply stayed home to avoid all the hassles. Record gas prices might have had just a little to do with it, also.

[AzDon]

Boatcop
Some one compared the deaths in the channel to traffic fatalities, says they're tired of Government intrusion, and the Govt. should do something about idiot drivers.
If I'm not mistaken, this is from the same mindset that thinks the CHP and other LE working the highways are Jerks and it's all about revenue, when all they're trying to do is keep the roads and waterways safe for YOU. [/QB]It's fact that CHP officers are simply revenue agents with guns and badges. That is the job description- LIKE IT OR NOT! I'll change my trucker "mindset" when their ticket books are taken away and they become true public servants, like firemen!

[Jrocket]

91nordic29:
one way traffic is a good idea no matter how you look at it.
Well looks like I'll be doing alot of backing up through the channel. :D

[Havasu Cig]

AZ Don,
Damn dude, everytime you post you are slamming the "bigger boats". The traffic jams in the channel are caused more by people stopping to catch footballs, beads, talk to their friends ect... :rolleyes:
If there were not people in my way I could idle on both motors instead of one and be on my way that much quicker.

[Havasu Cig]

Oh, and by the way the size limit is 36' not 35', not that it makes a difference. Are you sure you don't work for the Marina :confused:

[Just Tool'n]

How about some big fans on both sides of the channel, one every 100 yards put on times, & let them blow!
Would help disapate the CO!
Also Boatcop, could you post a link on the report that is due out in oct, so we can all get edumicated!

[little rowe boat]

AzDon:
Boatcop
Some one compared the deaths in the channel to traffic fatalities, says they're tired of Government intrusion, and the Govt. should do something about idiot drivers.
If I'm not mistaken, this is from the same mindset that thinks the CHP and other LE working the highways are Jerks and it's all about revenue, when all they're trying to do is keep the roads and waterways safe for YOU. It's fact that CHP officers are simply revenue agents with guns and badges. That is the job description- LIKE IT OR NOT! I'll change my trucker "mindset" when their ticket books are taken away and they become true public servants.[/QB]Why is it LE and CHP. take such a beating on these threads.They have dangerous jobs and part of their jobs is to keep our roads and highways safe.If they didn't have the power to cite offenders for traffic violations,then our roads and highways would become even more dangerous because there would be no consequences for their actions. pig_flyi pig_flyi

[J540]

locogringo:
It's too bad to hear that. My condolences.
However I don't get this part...
His body was discovered by a recreational diver just before 4:30am Labor Day Monday. What kind of recreational diver is it that dives at 4:30 in the morning? ONE that does not want to get HIT by a boat in the day while look'n for stuff that pepole drop overborad :rolleyes:

[Seadog]

In don's case it is simple. He tries to get by with too much and then blames the LE people when he gets caught. Typical democrat, he ignores the laws that are inconvenient and then blames everyone else for his woes.

[BoatPI]

I avois the channel on holidays. But two recent trips to the channel confirmed my beliefs. Boat owners continue to idle their boats while beached. PWC and other jet boats do not for obvious reasons. I realize the city has spent money to study the problem. Heck, any vetran to the channel with a good set of eyes and ears could have figured this one out. It appears that the only way to correct this dangerious issue is the enact a city ordinance.
And to the few that have the mistaken belief that PWC's are the problem, let me relate the teenage girl who died about a year ago. She was hanging onto a swimstep of an idling boat, at the bouy line at the outer edge of Thompson Bay. It was 1:00 AM. She slipped away, floating up two or three days later. Just the exhaust from one boat and perhaps some liquor.
Idling boats, like the underside of houseboats cited in a Coast Guard study, are the isue at hand.

[burbanite]

RiverDave:
P.S. Burbanite, I apollogized for jumping his ass on the previous thread already. wink :D
RD So it was you was it... :D Better memory than me young man wink

[burbanite]

AzDon:
As I remember, Havasuvian is in a position of authority with an axe to grind on this subject, so we should all view this as a loaded question!
Actually, I would view him more as a person who is a fellow boater that through his own lack of knowledge had first hand experience of the dangers of CO. It could easily have cost his daughter her life.
He came on here and told his story in front of all of these people so that they might just learn from his mistake and continues to try to educate others.
Pretty big of him I would say.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

AzDon:
As I remember, Havasuvian is in a position of authority with an axe to grind on this subject, so we should all view this as a loaded question! How does he trying to inform the public count as an axe to grind? He has firsthand experience with this problem! Did it ever occur to you that he actually trying to help solve the problem? Probably not since you question his motives to begin with. Another stellar post by you that re-affirms everyones opinion about you.

[Ziggy]

This goes a little along the lines of JustToolin's fan comment.
Might sound stupid or weird but why don't they put the Lake Havasu PD and other LE that patrol the channal in airboats. This would create a constant air flow in various areas throughout the channal dispersing much of the contaminates that linger. Or a regular flyby of a LE chopper at low altitude like the photo guys.
I'm just throwing out ideas here.
Another comment that I found interesting is to temporarily close it when levels reach near dangerous readings...easily accomplished with two LE at either end. Many will turn around and go elsewhere for a time.
The lack of airflow in particular sections of the channal I'd assume create pockets of higher concentration CO's.....can the development of buildings be a root cause? Will the additional complex on the north side increase this windblock? Of course it will and these projects were all done with the citys blessings knowing fully that they could decrease airflow.
RD's sign idea is a good one too, shock value has benefits but unfortunately there will likely be enough who will be offended by it so its less likely to happen.
My thinking is that these deaths are probably folks who are not aware or have the "it won't happen to me" syndrome. It could happen to any of us but less likely to the ones who are aware and prevent stupid actions of those in our crews.
Hopefully there is an amicable solution that serves the safety of people, rights of the boaters and the well being of businesses that rely on the traffic.

[Havasuvian]

Thank you all for a great discussion. I have been away for a couple of days and was surprized to find so much valuable feedback. Thank you!
Most of the suggestions posted here have been raised in some manner during city staff discussions, even the airboat idea. We kinda put that one on the B list because they may be difficult to maneuver in crowded traffic conditions (no reverse). But no ideas are being thrown out at this point.
AzDon, you need not suspect my intentions here, I am simply a public servant using this forum as a vehicle to communicate with the very people who are most likely to be affected by decisions made to address this issue. I will carry these comments, opinions and suggestions into discussions as each alternative is reviewed and evaluated by city staff. The final decision will be city council's, and their selection may even include an array of potential solutions, some of which may have come from this board. Thanks again for your input and I'll check in from time to time as new information is made available.
Charlie

[1979tarva]

ok first i have never been on the river and i have only had a boat for about 2 months and i go to lake mead because its close and nobody is ever there also we went on labor day this year nobody was there i saw 10 boats all day. its a great place to but maybe a little far for some of you.
what i think is here at lake mead there is an area called the narrows that is about 100 yds wide. there is no stopping in the area. im not sure how large the channel is there but this may be a solution or something similar.
i understand about co being a mechanic for 7 years. and there is nothing to do to fix it on boats because the option on cars is catalyc converters which will never work because of low engine temps/water in exhaust. not all engines with big camshafts are large polluters i had an 81 camaro here in las vegas with a cam that was 510/533 lift and it passed smog just fine. unless you have a full race cam in your boat there shouldnt be any problems .
as for imposing restrictions on boats that wouldnt work as far as emissions because only boats registered in az. could be made to comply. unless there were some kind of sticker needed to use that part of the river such as there is for national parks land here and elsewhere.
whatever the solution is nobody will be happy at all there will always be someone that thinks that we got it easy and someone that thinks that we got the wrong end of the deal. nobody will ever be happy and someone will complain.

[Big Jim H]

do the boats with more than 1 motor need to use them all to adle at a no wake speed?

[Havasu Cig]

Big Jim H:
do the boats with more than 1 motor need to use them all to adle at a no wake speed? If you have twins it is much easier to manuever the boat with both motors. With tripples (or more) I suppose you could just run the outside motors and be just as manueverable.