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MagicMtnDan
03-14-2006, 10:04 PM
Originally told his sergeant that "the suspect tried to attack him." Then, four days later, after seeing the video tape, he changed his story and said he thought he was going for a gun.
---------------
A sheriffÂ’s deputy who was videotaped shooting an unarmed Iraq War veteran after a car chase will be charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter, authorities said Tuesday.
The decision to charge Deputy Ivory J. Webb, 45, was announced by San Bernardino County District Attorney Michael A. Ramos.
Sheriff Gary Penrod said Webb will remain on paid administrative leave during the investigation into the shooting of Air Force Senior Airman Elio Carrion, 21.

wsuwrhr
03-14-2006, 10:54 PM
I don't know if that is true, but if it is....
Funny, just like I said, a video camera is LE's worst nightmare.
Brian
Originally told his sergeant that "the suspect tried to attack him." Then, four days later, after seeing the video tape, he changed his story and said he thought he was going for a gun.
---------------
A sheriffÂ’s deputy who was videotaped shooting an unarmed Iraq War veteran after a car chase will be charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter, authorities said Tuesday.
The decision to charge Deputy Ivory J. Webb, 45, was announced by San Bernardino County District Attorney Michael A. Ramos.
Sheriff Gary Penrod said Webb will remain on paid administrative leave during the investigation into the shooting of Air Force Senior Airman Elio Carrion, 21.

LOWRIVER2
03-15-2006, 05:10 AM
Actually,
The majority of us cops WANT cameras in our cars. Studies by department's who put them in show that public complaints against officers dropped by 50% or more when they found out they (civilians) were on camera. The truth is in the tape, for better or worse.
It's pure comedy any time someone want's to beef me over a contact/arrest I made with them and I pull out my audio tape of the incident. Too bad there's no fine for lying.
This post is ONLY to address cameras in police cars, not the specific incident in this thread.

MRSDRMCAT
03-15-2006, 05:34 AM
Actually,
The majority of us cops WANT cameras in our cars. Studies by department's who put them in show that public complaints against officers dropped by 50% or more when they found out they (civilians) were on camera. The truth is in the tape, for better or worse.
It's pure comedy any time someone want's to beef me over a contact/arrest I made with them and I pull out my audio tape of the incident. Too bad there's no fine for lying.
This post is ONLY to address cameras in police cars, not the specific incident in this thread.
Very true....recordings have saved me in the past also! I've had people make crazy accusations and then they pull the tape and completely false!

GHT
03-15-2006, 07:46 AM
Originally told his sergeant that "the suspect tried to attack him." Then, four days later, after seeing the video tape, he changed his story and said he thought he was going for a gun.
---------------
A sheriffÂ’s deputy who was videotaped shooting an unarmed Iraq War veteran after a car chase will be charged with attempted voluntary manslaughter, authorities said Tuesday.
The decision to charge Deputy Ivory J. Webb, 45, was announced by San Bernardino County District Attorney Michael A. Ramos.
Sheriff Gary Penrod said Webb will remain on paid administrative leave during the investigation into the shooting of Air Force Senior Airman Elio Carrion, 21.
Why was the Airman running from the cops?

Waldo
03-15-2006, 08:27 AM
Why was the Airman running from the cops?
He wasn't running from the cops...it's the case where he was a passenger in a high speed chase, after the chase he was sitting by the car, cop told him to get up (he started to), and then the cop shot him 3x.

Havasu Cig
03-15-2006, 09:22 AM
Actually,
The majority of us cops WANT cameras in our cars. Studies by department's who put them in show that public complaints against officers dropped by 50% or more when they found out they (civilians) were on camera. The truth is in the tape, for better or worse.
It's pure comedy any time someone want's to beef me over a contact/arrest I made with them and I pull out my audio tape of the incident. Too bad there's no fine for lying.
This post is ONLY to address cameras in police cars, not the specific incident in this thread.
A guy I worked with won 5k from a person he had stopped who had filed a false I.A. complaint. They went to civil court and the Deputy produced an audio tape that showed the person was lying and the judge awarded him 5k. :cool:

LOWRIVER2
03-15-2006, 09:43 AM
Approximately four years ago, the C.A. in LA county stopped suing those who filed false complaints for the most part.
It's been a see saw as for cops trying to sue on their own in civil cases. Most of my fake beefs were minor and over what I said or the tone in which I talked to somone.
Any of the gross "excessive force" false claims "fell on their face" outright as no evidence of injury existed in the first place to back the claim.

MagicMtnDan
03-15-2006, 09:46 AM
I'm curious, where's the "you-haven't-seen-the-whole-video" guy now that the deputy changed his story?

Biglue
03-15-2006, 10:40 AM
And another thing. If I focked up at work and was to be away from my duties, it would be nice to continue to have a paycheck and sit on my ass. There is another rant.

Roxysnow
03-15-2006, 11:15 AM
Either "the suspect tried to attack him." or "he thought he was going for a gun." BOTH actions still dangerous and not to be taken lightly! I am not taking sides but this whole incident would have never happened if a-holes wouldn't run from the cops! They were guilty of something to run!

Kilrtoy
03-15-2006, 11:20 AM
I'm curious, where's the "you-haven't-seen-the-whole-video" guy now that the deputy changed his story?
YOU RANG DAN....
No need to comment, because my stance has not changed....
and a motor in the valley has won 10K on two different cases

HighRoller
03-15-2006, 12:08 PM
And another thing. If I focked up at work and was to be away from my duties, it would be nice to continue to have a paycheck and sit on my ass. There is another rant.
That's a pretty ignorant statement since we live in a country where you are "innocent until proven guilty". If they are required to put him on leave, they must pay him to avoid the appearance of assumed guilt. Regardless of the evidence you have seen, only a trial and full disclosure of the facts will show definitively if he "focked up" or not. It's called "due process" and helps keep people from being railroaded by the court of public opinion/bandwagon mentality.

topless
03-15-2006, 12:12 PM
a video camera is LE's worst nightmare.
Brian
just like you are mine..........Now tell your lesbian dog to stop winking at me.

Biglue
03-15-2006, 12:12 PM
That's a pretty ignorant statement since we live in a country where you are "innocent until proven guilty". If they are required to put him on leave, they would only put themselves at liability by refusing to pay him and he turned out to be innocent. Regradless of the evidence you have seen, only a trial and full disclosure of the facts will show definitevely if he "focked up" or not. It's called "due process" and helps keep people from being railroaded by the court of public opinion/bandwagon mentality.
My point is that it's unfair. Espaecially for being under scrutiny.

Stoneman
03-15-2006, 12:17 PM
That's a pretty ignorant statement since we live in a country where you are "innocent until proven guilty". If they are required to put him on leave, they must pay him to avoid the appearance of assumed guilt. Regardless of the evidence you have seen, only a trial and full disclosure of the facts will show definitively if he "focked up" or not. It's called "due process" and helps keep people from being railroaded by the court of public opinion/bandwagon mentality.
If I shoot someone three times, I doubt I could go to work and get paid. :cool:

topless
03-15-2006, 12:20 PM
That's a pretty ignorant statement since we live in a country where you are "innocent until proven guilty". If they are required to put him on leave, they must pay him to avoid the appearance of assumed guilt. Regardless of the evidence you have seen, only a trial and full disclosure of the facts will show definitively if he "focked up" or not. It's called "due process" and helps keep people from being railroaded by the court of public opinion/bandwagon mentality.so, will he be required to reimburse the department for all his pay after he's found guilty?

HighRoller
03-15-2006, 12:23 PM
If I shoot someone three times, I doubt I could go to work and get paid. :cool:
Unless you're a police officer in the line of duty, in which case shootings are a possibility. I'm not saying the guy is innocent, but I've seen too many good cops have their lives destroyed by the lynch mob mentality when they didn't do anything wrong. We should all just wait and see what happens after the investigation before passing judgment because we don't have all the facts.

HighRoller
03-15-2006, 12:25 PM
so, will he be required to reimburse the department for all his pay after he's found guilty?
Probably not, but he'll lose his job, retirement and freedom. I'd consider that sufficient exchange for a few months' salary in the sake of impartiality.

Stoneman
03-15-2006, 12:27 PM
Unless you're a police officer in the line of duty, in which case shootings are a possibility. I'm not saying the guy is innocent, but I've seen too many good cops have their lives destroyed by the lynch mob mentality when they didn't do anything wrong. We should all just wait and see what happens after the investigation before passing judgment because we don't have all the facts.
I don't understand. Why shouldn't he be charged, taken to jail, givin, I don't know, maybe 500k bail like I or anyone else would be treated. Have to police PR department on the news boasting about how they got the bad guy put away. That is due process isn't it!

Tom Brown
03-15-2006, 12:27 PM
If I shoot someone three times, I doubt I could go to work and get paid. :cool:
I've shot three loads, gone to work, and gotten paid.
Life is good. :cool:

Biglue
03-15-2006, 12:27 PM
Probably not, but he'll lose his job, retirement and freedom. I'd consider that sufficient exchange for a few months' salary in the sake of impartiality.
Well he better save that salary. I'm sure the MP he shot will be coming after him in civil court.

wsuwrhr
03-15-2006, 12:32 PM
just like you are mine..........Now tell your lesbian dog to stop winking at me.
Why do you insist on not "leaving well enough alone."
Brian

topless
03-15-2006, 12:51 PM
Probably not, but he'll lose his job, retirement and freedom. I'd consider that sufficient exchange for a few months' salary in the sake of impartiality.Yup, I agree. Nobody can saywhat was going through his mind at that moment. i saw the video more than once and yes, it did look like the guy was reaching for something in his jacket but did the cop see that then or on the video?

topless
03-15-2006, 12:52 PM
Why do you insist on not "leaving well enough alone."
BrianI have a great idea..............PUT ME ON IGNORE AND YOUR PROBLEM IS SOLVED. If ya want me to, I can send you a PM so you can post it for everyone.

LOWRIVER2
03-15-2006, 06:25 PM
Like I posted K toy,
Those settlements were over 4 years ago. Times have changed, and most civilians have figured out at the time of the complaint interview with the LAPD Sergeant that it's time to shut down and leave once the tape has been played. They have a chance to walk away before they sign the waiver that advises them they will be charged with filing a false police report if they are caught in a lie.

wsuwrhr
03-15-2006, 07:43 PM
I have a great idea..............PUT ME ON IGNORE AND YOUR PROBLEM IS SOLVED. If ya want me to, I can send you a PM so you can post it for everyone.
Your name still shows up, tried that.
Why don't you just "leave well enough alone" and not reply to my posts?
Brian

Jetboatguru
03-15-2006, 08:13 PM
Looks like she knows you quite well Brian.

GHT
03-15-2006, 08:59 PM
He wasn't running from the cops...it's the case where he was a passenger in a high speed chase, after the chase he was sitting by the car, cop told him to get up (he started to), and then the cop shot him 3x.
Thanks. Didn't get the whole story and / or not enough time to sit and listen to ALL the news.. Lucky to have time for the weather.

C-2
03-15-2006, 09:07 PM
When I was 19 I was traveling thru Texas. A cop stopped me and another guy, and the other guy started mouthing off to the cop. The cop did a quick loosky, clicked his recorder off, punched the guy in the stomach, and said now, let's try this again. He re-started the recorder and picked up where he left off. True story and I still chuckle about it today, cuz the guy the cop punched was a punk!

mike37
03-15-2006, 09:10 PM
He wasn't running from the cops...it's the case where he was a passenger in a high speed chase, after the chase he was sitting by the car, cop told him to get up (he started to), and then the cop shot him 3x.
did you even see the video cus thats not what I saw

GHT
03-15-2006, 09:27 PM
did you even see the video cus thats not what I saw
So, what did you see? As I said before... I'm in the dark on this one.. I heard something about it but never followed up..

MagicMtnDan
03-15-2006, 10:26 PM
There was more on this case in the news on TV tonight.
It's alleged that the deputies handcuffed the thrice shot victim and dragged him out into the street where he laid wounded and bleeding for 30+ minutes until the paramedics were able to attend to him.
This story keeps getting worse and I'm still waiting for Kilrtoy to come back here and tell us the other side - the one he referred to in an earlier thread when he said we hadn't seen the whole tape.
It's a good thing there's a video.

PHOTOGLOU
03-15-2006, 10:44 PM
There was more on this case in the news on TV tonight.
It's alleged that the deputies handcuffed the thrice shot victim and dragged him out into the street where he laid wounded and bleeding for 30+ minutes until the paramedics were able to attend to him.
This story keeps getting worse and I'm still waiting for Kilrtoy to come back here and tell us the other side - the one he referred to in an earlier thread when he said we hadn't seen the whole tape.
It's a good thing there's a video.
If the victim dies he can still be considered a suspect..........................................

Kilrtoy
03-15-2006, 10:51 PM
There was more on this case in the news on TV tonight.
It's alleged that the deputies handcuffed the thrice shot victim and dragged him out into the street where he laid wounded and bleeding for 30+ minutes until the paramedics were able to attend to him.
This story keeps getting worse and I'm still waiting for Kilrtoy to come back here and tell us the other side - the one he referred to in an earlier thread when he said we hadn't seen the whole tape.
It's a good thing there's a video.
I know sometimes you cant follow along to well, I stand by what I said earlier, so no further comment is needed.....
30Plus minutes I see the hose draggers are scared everywhere. Took them 20 Minutes to see a downed officer two weeks ago... take that bleeding heart crap elsewhere

Ultrafied
03-15-2006, 11:18 PM
I know sometimes you cant follow along to well, I stand by what I said earlier, so no further comment is needed.....
30Plus minutes I see the hose draggers are scared everywhere. Took them 20 Minutes to see a downed officer two weeks ago... take that bleeding heart crap elsewhere
Woooooo ..... to serve and protect!

mike37
03-16-2006, 06:24 AM
So, what did you see? As I said before... I'm in the dark on this one.. I heard something about it but never followed up..
the video shows the guy reach his hand in his shirt right before he start to stand up the he gets shot
there is a lot more to it but from the video you can see he has no gun but if you put your self in the position of the officer you think he was going for a gun
just my opinion but the officer made a mistake but more training is what he deserves not prosecution

GHT
03-16-2006, 07:01 AM
the video shows the guy reach his hand in his shirt right before he start to stand up the he gets shot
there is a lot more to it but from the video you can see he has no gun but if you put your self in the position of the officer you think he was going for a gun
just my opinion but the officer made a mistake but more training is what he deserves not prosecution
Thanks...
And Good Morning.. :)

topless
03-16-2006, 09:43 AM
Your name still shows up, tried that.
Why don't you just "leave well enough alone" and not reply to my posts?
Brian
Because I don't have to and it's fun watching you get your panties in a wad over nothing. What do you mean by "leave well enough alone" anyway? If you want me to go back and pull up the threads where you have tried to bash me, I can but they all make you look foolish.

wsuwrhr
03-16-2006, 11:54 AM
I wouldn't take half this much shit from any man.
You better watch yourself.
Because I don't have to and it's fun watching you get your panties in a wad over nothing. What do you mean by "leave well enough alone" anyway? If you want me to go back and pull up the threads where you have tried to bash me, I can but they all make you look foolish.

topless
03-16-2006, 12:34 PM
I wouldn't take half this much shit from any man.
You better watch yourself.That sounds like a threat to me and you could get banned for that internet tough guy.

Her454
03-16-2006, 12:46 PM
I wouldn't take half this much shit from any man.
You better watch yourself.
Or? :argue: Damn people need to relax.

Jetboatguru
03-16-2006, 07:31 PM
I wouldn't take half this much shit from any man.
You better watch yourself.
BWAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAA.
I got $500 on Topless!!

Her454
03-16-2006, 07:42 PM
BWAAAAAAHAAAAAAAHAAAAAAA.
I got $500 on Topless!!
Tony, I'll up your 500.00 by 1000.00 :rollside:

Jetboatguru
03-16-2006, 07:49 PM
Hmmmm,
I'll give you 2-1 on the $1000. She is tough

Havasu Cig
03-16-2006, 08:13 PM
There was more on this case in the news on TV tonight.
It's alleged that the deputies handcuffed the thrice shot victim and dragged him out into the street where he laid wounded and bleeding for 30+ minutes until the paramedics were able to attend to him.
This story keeps getting worse and I'm still waiting for Kilrtoy to come back here and tell us the other side - the one he referred to in an earlier thread when he said we hadn't seen the whole tape.
It's a good thing there's a video.
The department policy where I worked was the suspect gets handcuffed even if he is shot. The suspect can still pose a threat even after being shot, and at the time you don't know if he has any weapons on him. To a lay person L.E. tactics often seem barbaric, but they are used for a reason.
The F.D. won't roll into a scene unless they are sure it is secured, which in a case where there is a shooting usually takes time. I did CPR on a suspect in an officer involved shooting and it took the F.D. 13 minutes to get there and the shooting happened about 1/2 mile from their station.

Nicked prop
03-16-2006, 09:51 PM
here we go again. Toy jumps on the 'defend a cop' bandwagon and then turns the topic to some silly comment about a motor in the valley winning 10K in two cases. And that explains why the deputy changed his story? Serve up some meatballs, the spaghetti is on.
Makes me think of the off-duty cop that ran over a guy on a PWC. I can hear it now -- "You guys don't know what it's like to run over someone after you've had a cold case and your infant daughter is in the boat. You're adrenaline is pumping and you have to rely on your training to kick in. You know, the training you learned where to evade for a couple of hours while you drop off an infant and concoct a story. Uh, I mean, kick back and knock off a few cold ones for scoring a lake lice passenger. After all, if he's gonna' hang out with PWC-types he deserves to have his guts carved out by a prop. Besides, I had no choice. He reached inside his swim trunks and I thought he was going for something that could injure me."
It's early in the game, gentlemen and ladies. Expect the deputy to change his story a few more times before his training kicks in and he figures out which BS story will put him in the best light in the court room. I expect it'll be something like he was practicing is golf swing when the shooting took place and as soon as the trial is over he'll be all about finding who the real shooter is.

MagicMtnDan
03-16-2006, 10:15 PM
here we go again. Toy jumps on the 'defend a cop' bandwagon and then turns the topic to some silly comment about a motor in the valley winning 10K in two cases. And that explains why the deputy changed his story? Serve up some meatballs, the spaghetti is on.
Look, I have a LOT of respect for LEO, firefighters and paramedics. They are worth a lot more than they're paid except when they abuse their power and do harm to people which, unfortunately, is far too often.
I respect Kilrtoy and others here for what they do. But I lose respect for them when they offer up lame excuses, nonsense, and insults instead of either providing details and truth or simply leaving the thread alone because of the facts reported are accurate.
Not every cop is a good one and that's a crime that everyone pays for.

boatsnblondes
03-16-2006, 11:56 PM
I too have a LOT of respect for you LEO's....take a lot more money than they pay to get me to go out there and get shot at. My neighbor is a cop, the guy across the street is a chip. I told them both they are useless, my Yukon got broke into in the driveway, and they were both home.... :rollside: as for the video, lets' ALL hold out and see what comes up. I have seen the video, it is blurry and DARK, and needs to be worked a little. It is hard to tell if the guys hand goes into his pocket, or on his hip to rub it kinda...as for you two above who are fighting, it's not really fighting, more like posturing, better known as foreplay...get a room, get it all out of your systems, get on with your lives...

Kilrtoy
03-17-2006, 12:58 AM
here we go again. Toy jumps on the 'defend a cop' bandwagon and then turns the topic to some silly comment about a motor in the valley winning 10K in two cases. And that explains why the deputy changed his story? Serve up some meatballs, the spaghetti is on.
Makes me think of the off-duty cop that ran over a guy on a PWC. I can hear it now -- "You guys don't know what it's like to run over someone after you've had a cold case and your infant daughter is in the boat. You're adrenaline is pumping and you have to rely on your training to kick in. You know, the training you learned where to evade for a couple of hours while you drop off an infant and concoct a story. Uh, I mean, kick back and knock off a few cold ones for scoring a lake lice passenger. After all, if he's gonna' hang out with PWC-types he deserves to have his guts carved out by a prop. Besides, I had no choice. He reached inside his swim trunks and I thought he was going for something that could injure me."
It's early in the game, gentlemen and ladies. Expect the deputy to change his story a few more times before his training kicks in and he figures out which BS story will put him in the best light in the court room. I expect it'll be something like he was practicing is golf swing when the shooting took place and as soon as the trial is over he'll be all about finding who the real shooter is.
try reading again, i was callined into this specific thread, I only offered story after one was raised with extreme simliarities. I am really starting to think you hug trees on the weekend

Kilrtoy
03-17-2006, 01:02 AM
Look, I have a LOT of respect for LEO, firefighters and paramedics. They are worth a lot more than they're paid except when they abuse their power and do harm to people which, unfortunately, is far too often.
I respect Kilrtoy and others here for what they do. But I lose respect for them when they offer up lame excuses, nonsense, and insults instead of either providing details and truth or simply leaving the thread alone because of the facts reported are accurate.
Not every cop is a good one and that's a crime that everyone pays for.
I never offered any lame excuse, I SAW the video the news wont show you anymore, That is what I said and the guy reached into his jacked.
A shootin happened two days ago, suspect shoots at other GM and then cops roll up he runs, trips, falls, drops gun, picks gun up, spins around, points gun at cops and officer drops some rounds. The news was on it like shit on ***boat, once they found out a gun was recovered and all the witnesses said he pointed the gun at the cop....
YEP YOU GUESSED IT...... The story never made the news and every single news station in LA was there and that includes the spanish ones.... they packed up and ran like one post wonders
WHY DID THE STORY NOT MAKE THE NEWS

LOWRIVER2
03-17-2006, 02:35 AM
Make no mistake M.Dan,
A lot of cops on this site have not commented on this incident because WE DO NOT KNOW the WHOLE story.
DON'T confuse a NON POST on this topic as a sign of agreement on your part or otherwise.
Remember what is said about opinions.... ,and so far, that is mostly what you have injected into this topic.
An investigation is underway, a court case is coming and decisions, litigaiton and appeals will come. We will ALL see what the outcome is and none of us knows what that will be at this point. Speculation is all you or anyone else has.
Enough said,
LR

Nicked prop
03-17-2006, 05:32 AM
go back to Dan's post that started this thread
Originally told his sergeant that "the suspect tried to attack him." Then, four days later, after seeing the video tape, he changed his story and said he thought he was going for a gun.
Somehow I don't think whining about the lack of news coverage of a cop shooting a GM is relevant to deputy Webb having shot an unarmed citizen then lying about it. How about oh, say, starting another thread? Then again, this is HB not Mensa. I imagine the adrenaline of the chase led the deputy to make one statement regarding the shooting then later change his tune; after four days had allowed the adrenaline to subside. And he saw the video.
Let's all respect Dan's start on this thread: Stay directly on topic and post your take on the deputy changing his story. If you're tempted to post about some other wrongdoing that justifies this one, keep you hands in your pants and off the keyboard, or start another thread. (Bet that'll be a thread killer. Sorry Dan).

mike37
03-17-2006, 07:17 AM
go back to Dan's post that started this thread
Somehow I don't think whining about the lack of news coverage of a cop shooting a GM is relevant to deputy Webb having shot an unarmed citizen then lying about it. How about oh, say, starting another thread? Then again, this is HB not Mensa. I imagine the adrenaline of the chase led the deputy to make one statement regarding the shooting then later change his tune; after four days had allowed the adrenaline to subside. And he saw the video.
Let's all respect Dan's start on this thread: Stay directly on topic and post your take on the deputy changing his story. If you're tempted to post about some other wrongdoing that justifies this one, keep you hands in your pants and off the keyboard, or start another thread. (Bet that'll be a thread killer. Sorry Dan).
I don't think he changed his story
he was felt the guy was coming at him
gun knife stick or his hands he is being attacked
its obvious from the video the guy was not cooperating

Stoneman
03-17-2006, 07:34 AM
I don't think he changed his story
he was felt the guy was coming at him
gun knife stick or his hands he is being attacked
its obvious from the video the guy was not cooperating
Wtf did you see??? "Get-Up"! Ok I'm getting Up. "GET-UP"!! Ok I'm getting up. Bang, Bang, Bang. Ouch!.

mike37
03-17-2006, 08:23 AM
Wtf did you see??? "Get-Up"! Ok I'm getting Up. "GET-UP"!! Ok I'm getting up. Bang, Bang, Bang. Ouch!.
I saw him reach in his jacket as he was standing up looked like he was going for a gun
the angle of the video you can see he wasn't but if you put yourself in the position of the officer and the angle of his view
it would look like he was going for a gun
and prior to the he was not following orders by the office

little rowe boat
03-17-2006, 08:52 AM
I know sometimes you cant follow along to well, I stand by what I said earlier, so no further comment is needed.....
30Plus minutes I see the hose draggers are scared everywhere. Took them 20 Minutes to see a downed officer two weeks ago... take that bleeding heart crap elsewhere
So now this is going to turn into a Firefighter/Fire dept. bashing thread. Remember we don't roll in until Law enforcement clears us to roll in.

Havasu Cig
03-17-2006, 09:20 AM
go back to Dan's post that started this thread
Somehow I don't think whining about the lack of news coverage of a cop shooting a GM is relevant to deputy Webb having shot an unarmed citizen then lying about it. How about oh, say, starting another thread? Then again, this is HB not Mensa. I imagine the adrenaline of the chase led the deputy to make one statement regarding the shooting then later change his tune; after four days had allowed the adrenaline to subside. And he saw the video.
There are actually studies on memory after a high stress incident like this, and the studies show that it is actually better to get a statement at least 24 hours after an incident because your memory will actually be better. When the adrenaline is flowing you get tunnel vision and often don't remember all the details right away.

slink
03-17-2006, 09:23 AM
So now this is going to turn into a Firefighter/Fire dept. bashing thread. Remember we don't roll in until Law enforcement clears us to roll in.
Sounds good to me :p :p About time you guys take some hits :)

Stoneman
03-17-2006, 09:42 AM
I saw him reach in his jacket as he was standing up looked like he was going for a gun
the angle of the video you can see he wasn't but if you put yourself in the position of the officer and the angle of his view
it would look like he was going for a gun
and prior to the he was not following orders by the office
I saw two idiots yelling at each other. One idiot with a gun told the other idiot to get up, the other idiot did. idiot with gun shot idiot for getting up.
Funny, BOTH are trained professionals acking like idiots.
You can blah, blah, blah this all you want, but that dude should not of been shot. So the idiot that shot him should be punished. :yuk:

LOWRIVER2
03-17-2006, 09:49 AM
Hey Stoneman,
re read my post above on this page, and then, do it again and again.
It's in the court, a decision will be made and that is what will happen, not what could,should,ought to or otherwise.
Pretty simple,and ON topic.
Now back to work and no over billing to your customers, LOL.

LOWRIVER2
03-17-2006, 09:52 AM
Hey Little Rowe Boat,
I have friends that are firefighters, and like most cops, are great folks.
Call LAPD Hollywood Division and ask them about the incident with LAFD and LAPD two weeks ago, then call the local LAFD station in Hollywood.
However you slice it, it was'nt good and it was on videotape (complete incident).

C-2
03-17-2006, 09:56 AM
There are actually studies on memory after a high stress incident like this, and the studies show that it is actually better to get a statement at least 24 hours after an incident because your memory will actually be better. When the adrenaline is flowing you get tunnel vision and often don't remember all the details right away.
Yup, memory blackouts are common, even in less stressful situations. The mind plays funny tricks when pumped full of adrenalin.
----
And I guess the "blue brotherhood theory" somebody raised on the other thread is kinda out the door. Seems somebody in the Sheriff's office leaked a little 400 pg report. Oops, misplaced a ream of paper. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

topless
03-17-2006, 10:06 AM
Hmmmm,
I'll give you 2-1 on the $1000. She is toughShhhhhhhhhh.......don't let EVERONE know he has no balls.

Stoneman
03-17-2006, 10:07 AM
Make no mistake M.Dan,
A lot of cops on this site have not commented on this incident because WE DO NOT KNOW the WHOLE story.
DON'T confuse a NON POST on this topic as a sign of agreement on your part or otherwise.
Remember what is said about opinions.... ,and so far, that is mostly what you have injected into this topic.
An investigation is underway, a court case is coming and decisions, litigaiton and appeals will come. We will ALL see what the outcome is and none of us knows what that will be at this point. Speculation is all you or anyone else has.
Enough said,
LR
Just my opinion, I believe I'm still entitled to have one.
I still wish the tape would of surfaced after the police report was filed.

Kilrtoy
03-17-2006, 10:36 AM
So now this is going to turn into a Firefighter/Fire dept. bashing thread. Remember we don't roll in until Law enforcement clears us to roll in.
NO. just clarifiying something for a know it all civilian....

mike37
03-17-2006, 11:16 AM
I saw two idiots yelling at each other. One idiot with a gun told the other idiot to get up, the other idiot did. idiot with gun shot idiot for getting up.
Funny, BOTH are trained professionals acking like idiots.
You can blah, blah, blah this all you want, but that dude should not of been shot. So the idiot that shot him should be punished. :yuk:
that easy to say siting at home after the fact have you ever had to be in a situation like that your self and had to diced you or him

Stoneman
03-17-2006, 12:05 PM
that easy to say siting at home after the fact have you ever had to be in a situation like that your self and had to diced you or him
How do you know that? Anyway, that is not my point. What I'm saying is, they are supposed to be highly trained professionals. In my opinon, all their trainning on both sides, went out the window on this one.
They acted like the average idiots that you would see fighting in the parking lot of a bar at 2:00 am, except one had a gun and used it.

boatsnblondes
03-17-2006, 01:51 PM
Cops, firefighters, paramedics, I don't care, you find your way to my house, I'm gonna pour you a cold one....you guys are the best there is, in a world of scumbags and shitheads....you make it work for people like me.

mike37
03-17-2006, 01:55 PM
How do you know that? Anyway, that is not my point. What I'm saying is, they are supposed to be highly trained professionals. In my opinon, all their trainning on both sides, went out the window on this one.
They acted like the average idiots that you would see fighting in the parking lot of a bar at 2:00 am, except one had a gun and used it.
how do I know what ??
and highly trained professionals make mistakes all the time unfortunately
some times a life is at steak
I know this comparison has no life or death consequences
but pro athletes make mistakes all the time and they get more training hours
than a police officer
and just to make a point the guy that got shot had to have had way more combat training than the officer that shot him did
all he had to do is get his ass on the ground as soon ass possible
but he had to rant and rave for 10 minuets about how he as a vet and a cop
he never really followed any instructions given him
did the officer make a mistake yes
did he honestly think his life was in danger I think yes

Stoneman
03-17-2006, 02:09 PM
how do I know what ??
and highly trained professionals make mistakes all the time unfortunately
some times a life is at steak
I know this comparison has no life or death consequences
but pro athletes make mistakes all the time and they get more training hours
than a police officer
and just to make a point the guy that got shot had to have had way more combat training than the officer that shot him did
all he had to do is get his ass on the ground as soon ass possible
but he had to rant and rave for 10 minuets about how he as a vet and a cop
he never really followed any instructions given him
did the officer make a mistake yes
did he honestly think his life was in danger I think yes
An Airforce MP, combat training? I doubt that very seriously. More like training to write tickets on base and how to guard airplane hangers.
But I do agree with you when you say the officer made a mistake. That is why he should be punished.
And many a athlete have lost there jobs/careers over a single mistake.

Her454
03-17-2006, 02:10 PM
Cops, firefighters, paramedics, I don't care, you find your way to my house, I'm gonna pour you a cold one....you guys are the best there is, in a world of scumbags and shitheads....you make it work for people like me.
Funny how people forget that when something like this happens. In the line of fire day in and day out working with the unstable, sometimes armed public. In what seems like a most unrewarding job at best, and first to be judged when something goes wrong.
I'm not saying what happened is right or wrong but let a jury decide once all the facts are out rather than a public trial via the media.

mike37
03-17-2006, 02:19 PM
An Airforce MP, combat training? I doubt that very seriously. More like training to write tickets on base and how to guard airplane hangers.
But I do agree with you when you say the officer made a mistake. That is why he should be punished.
And many a athlete have lost there jobs/careers over a single mistake.
well the guy was in Iraq on active duty
and I will say it again if you have never had to make the choice then dont
be so quick to judge

Stoneman
03-17-2006, 02:27 PM
well the guy was in Iraq on active duty
and I will say it again if you have never had to make the choice the dont
be so quick to judge
I am not judging the guy because I am not a judge. I am simply opining on what I saw. The officer should of never put himself in that position to start with.
I just wish the report was filed before the tape surfaced, so we could see how many fellow officers would of sided with the guy that the airman attacked him. Makes you wonder don't it.
Plus I'm completely baffled by what other say they saw.
And don't be too quick to judge me either.

Wally_Gator
03-17-2006, 02:40 PM
To all LEO and FF's here and Military...
Thank you!
On the other side of all this is:
Alot of trust is put into our LEO. Their job is to protect and to serve.
I know quite a few and am happy to call them friends and have the ability to call them when I need their help.
BUT....
How many cases of corruption do we see in an area where an officers word is held higher than the average citizen. This is the point that galvanizes the public in general against officers that might have made a mistake like this.
How many times have you seen an officer running 50 in a 35 just because?
I have many a times.. They are on their way back to the station.
How many stories of "Yeah I did this to that scumbag" have we all heard.
It is this image that LEO needs to be aware of. It is out there and unfortunately LEO has to be vigalent to to refute it by actions and not words.
It sucks that this is the case with all the Rodney Kings and such. But in a profession where you protect the laws, you need to be above reproach in your actions.
I will get bashed on this and who cares.. But the 12 or so Sherrifs, PD and ChP's that I call friends, this is an easy conversation to have.
If this guy was unjustified in shooting, YES he should pay with his career.
From my armchair, it looks as though he is guilty. But I am not on the jury am I?
We will see in time (or will we?)

Stoneman
03-17-2006, 02:51 PM
Good Point wally.
My daughter is learning to drive, so she tells me all the time I am breaking the law.
We're sitting at an intersection and a cop pulls up to the intersection to our left. his light is red and he is into the crosswalk before he stops. once green he pulls into the middle of the intersection with no turn signal. Then turns into the far right lane in front of a car turning right.
I told my daughter she just had a lesson of what not to do at a intersection.

mike37
03-17-2006, 02:53 PM
I am not judging the guy because I am not a judge. I am simply opining on what I saw. The officer should of never put himself in that position to start with.
I just wish the report was filed before the tape surfaced, so we could see how many fellow officers would of sided with the guy that the airman attacked him. Makes you wonder don't it.
Plus I'm completely baffled by what other say they saw.
And don't be too quick to judge me either.
Its the officers job to put himself in that position that what we pay him for
I saw the long vertion of the video nt the one that only shows the guy getting shot
I watched the video several times and tried to put myself in the same spot he was and I thing I may have pulled the trigger to
bet its hard because I know for a fact there was no gun but at the time
the officer didn't so what can you do can you find some people never herd there was no gun and let them watch the video and see what they say

Biglue
03-17-2006, 02:58 PM
Good Point wally.
My daughter is learning to drive, so she tells me all the time I am breaking the law.
We're sitting at an intersection and a cop pulls up to the intersection to our left. his light is red and he is into the crosswalk before he stops. once green he pulls into the middle of the intersection with no turn signal. Then turns into the far right lane in front of a car turning right.
I told my daughter she just had a lesson of what not to do at a intersection.
Wally made a great point. As far as the BS little traffic privilages they do, I dont have a problem with it, as long as it's done safely. Many businesses kick up some food to LEO's and I think it's cool that that they have these little fringe benefits. After all they are whom protect the public. A little gratitude from their communities is a good thing.
And yes all you LEO's, I for one am greatfull for you folks. You probably dont hear that much. Thank you.
Just this one officer at hand and his actions dont sit particularly good with me. But like it's said the jury will make that decision.

Stoneman
03-17-2006, 03:01 PM
Its the officers job to put himself in that position that what we pay him for
I saw the long vertion of the video nt the one that only shows the guy getting shot
I watched the video several times and tried to put myself in the same spot he was and I thing I may have pulled the trigger to
bet its hard because I know for a fact there was no gun but at the time
the officer didn't so what can you do can you find some people never herd there was no gun and let them watch the video and see what they say
He is paid to do what he is trained to do. He should waited for help, made the guy stay on the ground. Other LEO's have said that is the way they are trained.
Going home. Have a nice day.

LOWRIVER2
03-17-2006, 03:04 PM
Yeah, have a nice day,
You obviously are anti Police, I put out a thread asking about concrete and you did'nt even have the courtesy to give me some info, Mr. "Stoneman"/LOL
It's a JOKE,
Happy St. Pat's,

MagicMtnDan
03-17-2006, 03:04 PM
Funny how it's OK to have an opinion on any other thread on this Web site but some want to know why you should have an opinion about the deputy's guilt or innocence.
Question for you: when was the last time you saw an officer have his gun pointed at a suspect down on the ground and let him up WITHOUT first putting him in handcuffs?!
I'm no LEO nor do I play one on TV or on these forums. But I do wonder why the guy wasn't handcuffed with his hands behind his back before he was ever told to get up?
Also, if the deputy was concerned at all about him having a weapon then why didn't he pat him down on the ground and/or handcuff him and then pat him down?

mike37
03-17-2006, 03:10 PM
He is paid to do what he is trained to do. He should waited for help, made the guy stay on the ground. Other LEO's have said that is the way they are trained.
Going home. Have a nice day.
well he did make he get on the ground
the guy wouldn't go all the way down he kept talking shit to the officer
and that's where it sound like the officer says get up
but if you listen very close the officer is saying shut up not get up

Moneypitt
03-17-2006, 03:16 PM
If the Air Force MP would have done exactly what the officer told him to do without all the talk about being an MP and so on, just obeyed the officer, then later, after things calmed down and LE back up arrived, explained who and what he was, this would have just been another drunk trying to run from the cops. No one would've been shot. You would think the MP, being trained somewhat on the other side of a situation like this, would've known to shut up and do it! Explain it later...........Not saying right or wrong on the LE part,I wasn't there, and as was already mentioned, we couldn't see what HE saw from the taped angle, only what the tape shows. If back up was there, chances are he would've had more confidence in the circumstances, and would have reacted differently. would have, could have, should have.......It's all hindsight, as I'm sure he has played that night over and over in his mind, as has the AF MP.....................MP

Wally_Gator
03-17-2006, 05:47 PM
but if you listen very close the officer is saying shut up not get up
The district attorney's office asked the FBI to go over the tape. Before they levied charges against the officer they wanted to clear up the audio so they could verify that the officer said GET UP and not something else..
It is reported that the charges were made due to the fact that the enhanced version of the tape clearly has the officer saying "GET UP".

mike37
03-17-2006, 06:51 PM
Funny how it's OK to have an opinion on any other thread on this Web site but some want to know why you should have an opinion about the deputy's guilt or innocence.
Question for you: when was the last time you saw an officer have his gun pointed at a suspect down on the ground and let him up WITHOUT first putting him in handcuffs?!
I'm no LEO nor do I play one on TV or on these forums. But I do wonder why the guy wasn't handcuffed with his hands behind his back before he was ever told to get up?
Also, if the deputy was concerned at all about him having a weapon then why didn't he pat him down on the ground and/or handcuff him and then pat him down?
did the guy ever stop moving around for the officer to have a chance to cuff him
or did he ever follow instruction from the officer
I didn't see him do ether

mike37
03-17-2006, 06:53 PM
The district attorney's office asked the FBI to go over the tape. Before they levied charges against the officer they wanted to clear up the audio so they could verify that the officer said GET UP and not something else..
It is reported that the charges were made due to the fact that the enhanced version of the tape clearly has the officer saying "GET UP".
how reliable of a source is it that you got that info from

mike37
03-17-2006, 07:22 PM
You can have an opinion on HB, just as long as it's the same as everybody else's. ;)
Like my opinion on Barry Bonds, the one you lambast every chance you get. ;)
come on now Bob you cant honestly think this officer deserves to go to prison

Wally_Gator
03-17-2006, 08:04 PM
how reliable of a source is it that you got that info from
That was the news interview with the District Attorney's office on KNX 1070
the other morning. This is from when they announced the charges and why they were being sought.

topless
03-17-2006, 08:05 PM
I was not commenting on the officer, just on MMD's comment about having an opinion.
Do I think he should go to prison? From the limited info I have seen, which I'll admit is limited, I think yes, he should go to prison. Do I think he will? No, probably not. I'll tell you this, he should never be allowed to handle a gun again, EVER. I am not LE or even remotely an expert on LE, but I have handled armed combatants and, IN MY OPINION, nothing about that was handled correctly.
Go Bob go!!!!!! Now go check on the kids before I call a gun toting,trigger happy cop who hates Mexicans and doesnt have a witness with a video camera.

mike37
03-17-2006, 10:00 PM
I was not commenting on the officer, just on MMD's comment about having an opinion.
Do I think he should go to prison? From the limited info I have seen, which I'll admit is limited, I think yes, he should go to prison. Do I think he will? No, probably not. I'll tell you this, he should never be allowed to handle a gun again, EVER. I am not LE or even remotely an expert on LE, but I have handled armed combatants and, IN MY OPINION, nothing about that was handled correctly.
I just cant agree with the prison time
I just don't see that he did anything criminal
maybe his department for not training their men properly