Octane Boost??

[SandMan_Mike]

Going to Lake Powell next week and i understand they only sell 87 Octane on the water. My question is what ocatane booster is good and Why?
thanks
mj :cool:

[Boozer]

There have been posts aout this before. Don't use it. Octane boost is BS and not worth money. You're better off getting a 5 or 10 gallon container of av gas and umping it in with the 87 then using octane booster.

[SandMan_Mike]

At what two 25 gallon tanks 20 per tank 20 gal. 87 and 5 gal. of Av or what?

[GlastronGuy]

Boozer:
There have been posts aout this before. Don't use it. Octane boost is BS and not worth money. You're better off getting a 5 or 10 gallon container of av gas and umping it in with the 87 then using octane booster. Why did you tell him not to use it then say use it?

[summerlove]

I just returned from Powell. I have a 7.4 mercruiser and have been there six times in the past seven years. I fill up with super and never really let my tank get to low, just keep filling it up, dilutes it a bit. We carry 250 gallons of aux fuel in two tanks on the houseboat, so it's not really a problem for us. If you run a hi-perf motor, you may want to talk to a qualified mechanic for his advice. I think Boozer runs a Gayliner, so it really doesn't matter for him :D You'll see more of a performance loss due to the elevation than the fuel. Good luck, and have a great time. Are you going out of Wahweap? If so, the Castle Rock cut is now all land and no water so it does not exist, making the trip up lake much longer than past years. Pray for a HUGE snow pack next year!

[summerlove]

By the way, Sandman, I wouldn't bring that Spectra. It may break apart from a little chop...J/K from an old Campbell guy...

[Boozer]

Let me rephrase my post. And also give you some education towards Octane booster. But I'll give you the short story.
Octane boosters all advertise that they give you up to 7 points of an octane boost. When you put the crap in your gas you wind up getting a boost of .7 So if you have 87 octane and add +7 you get 87.7 octane. It's nto worth the money.
Av gas is about 101 octane. If you have 2 tanks that hold 25 gallons each And mix 5 gallons of 101 octane in with 87 octane you get something like 89.8 Octane and it's true octane not some chemical that substitutes as octane.
So don't use Octane Booster.

[Boozer]

summerlove:
I just returned from Powell. I have a 7.4 mercruiser and have been there six times in the past seven years. I fill up with super and never really let my tank get to low, just keep filling it up, dilutes it a bit. We carry 250 gallons of aux fuel in two tanks on the houseboat, so it's not really a problem for us. If you run a hi-perf motor, you may want to talk to a qualified mechanic for his advice. I think Boozer runs a Gayliner, so it really doesn't matter for him :D You'll see more of a performance loss due to the elevation than the fuel. Good luck, and have a great time. Are you going out of Wahweap? If so, the Castle Rock cut is now all land and no water so it does not exist, making the trip up lake much longer than past years. Pray for a HUGE snow pack next year! My boating experience has nothing to do with my knowledge of octane and octane boosters. I got my knowledge of octane boosters when I had a drag car. Driving it on the streets it became quite costly to keep filling it up with $4.00 a gallon race gas so I looked for alternatives. Octane boost helped a little but would foul up my plugs and I wasn't seeing much a of a reduction in knock counts.

[HM]

At elevation, your boat will run better with lower octane as it has a faster burn which is needed for less oxygen. If you can get av gas, that works great as it is high octane and fast burn. In colorado, I ran 85 octane in my truck while towing and it ran great. All the Harley guys will tell you the same if they have ran in higher elevation.
Octane boost products are not worth much.
I think Boozer meant to say to use the Av Gas as the octane booster.

[Boozer]

I forgot to ask. What type of motor are you running that you feel you need higher then 87 octane to run?
And yes the elevation thing is correct. the highest gas we have on pump here is 91 at most gas stations. The choices go 85,87,91. I run 87 in my truck at all times.

[summerlove]

Boozer:
summerlove:
I just returned from Powell. I have a 7.4 mercruiser and have been there six times in the past seven years. I fill up with super and never really let my tank get to low, just keep filling it up, dilutes it a bit. We carry 250 gallons of aux fuel in two tanks on the houseboat, so it's not really a problem for us. If you run a hi-perf motor, you may want to talk to a qualified mechanic for his advice. I think Boozer runs a Gayliner, so it really doesn't matter for him :D You'll see more of a performance loss due to the elevation than the fuel. Good luck, and have a great time. Are you going out of Wahweap? If so, the Castle Rock cut is now all land and no water so it does not exist, making the trip up lake much longer than past years. Pray for a HUGE snow pack next year! My boating experience has nothing to do with my knowledge of octane and octane boosters. I got my knowledge of octane boosters when I had a drag car. Driving it on the streets it became quite costly to keep filling it up with $4.00 a gallon race gas so I looked for alternatives. Octane boost helped a little but would foul up my plugs and I wasn't seeing much a of a reduction in knock counts. Boozer, I am duly impressed! I appreciate the info, and I was just trying to bust your chops with the gayliner comment. We all know about you and RD! wink wink

[Boozer]

I am knowledgable about some subjects. Few but some.

[BajaMike]

summerlove:
I just returned from Powell. I have a 7.4 mercruiser and have been there six times in the past seven years. I fill up with super and never really let my tank get to low, just keep filling it up, dilutes it a bit. We carry 250 gallons of aux fuel in two tanks on the houseboat, so it's not really a problem for us. If you run a hi-perf motor, you may want to talk to a qualified mechanic for his advice. I think Boozer runs a Gayliner, so it really doesn't matter for him :D You'll see more of a performance loss due to the elevation than the fuel. Good luck, and have a great time. Are you going out of Wahweap? If so, the Castle Rock cut is now all land and no water so it does not exist, making the trip up lake much longer than past years. Pray for a HUGE snow pack next year! Hey, Summer, would you expect much of a performance loss from the elevation even with an EFI engine? I was there a couple weeks ago and had to go from a 21" prop to a 19" prop.
I have a new 20" Baja Outlaw with a 5.0 litre, 220 hp Mercruser with EFI, with a 21" 4 blade stainless prop, and at Havasu I was getting 5000 rpms over 60 mph. At Lake Powell, I couldn't get over 4400 rpms and 45 mph with that prop. I changed to 3 blade aluminum 19" prop and got back up to 5000 rpms but obviously only about 50 mph.
Does sound normal? I thought the EFI would adjust for the elavation.

[Boozer]

I know you asked Mike but I'm going to answer.
Yes. Even with EFI the elevation is going to cause you to lose power at higher elevations. Less oxygen = Less burn = Less power. The only time you really won't lose much power is if you have a forced induction engine. But on your naturally aspirated engine you're going to lose about 10-15% of your power.
I'd go with a stainless prop you might actually gain and extra mile or 2 per hour. You'd also be okay with a 21" 3 blade prop just don't use the 4. From what I understand aluminum props actually flex at higher RPM's and result in a lower speed then you would get with a Stainless prop. Right now I am running an aluminum 19" but switching to a 21" tonight. I'd run SS but the lake I am running the boat in is full of rocks and sand bars. I'd rather lose a $105 prop then a drive that will set me back a couple thousand.
[ August 01, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Boozer ]

[BajaMike]

Thanks, Boozer.

[BajaMike]

[ August 01, 2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: BajaMike ]

[BajaMike]

Boozer, why do you say don't use the 4 blade? I'm thinking of putting the 4 blade, 21 " prop back on because it worked fine at Havasu and that's where I usually go. It seems like with the 4 blade I can get the drive trimmed up higher, without cavatation, giving me more speed.
[ August 01, 2003, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: BajaMike ]

[Boozer]

4 blade prop gives you higher MPH however it slows down your hole shot and also reduces your towing power.

[summerlove]

Boozer is right (I can't believe I said that...) I switched from my 4 blade SS at Havasu to a 3 blade (same pitch)at Powell. Turning fewer RPM's at havasu with 4 but better MPH. At Powell, the 3 got me about the same RPM (4700+/-) and a little less MPH, but up there, I was looking more for better performance and a solid top end. My boat is slow, even at Havasu I only run about 50-52 - the boat is very heavy, almost 5,500 pounds dry. EFI is supposed to adjust to elevation, but since I don't have EFI, I'm unable to comment with any authority. Have a great trip, watch for many sandbars away form the channel. Gunsight had some very nice beaches on the east side and shade all afternoon. I'm hpoing to post pics over the w/e.

[BajaMike]

Here's a couple pictures from my trip to Lake Powell the week of 7/11 to 7/18.
http://www.skadron.com/boat/

[summerlove]

very nice. What houseboat are you on?

[BajaMike]

We were on one of the rental houseboats, the biggest one, I think called the "Admiral"??

[What's Poppin']

Who needs boost, use 130 octane gas!!!

[Boozer]

What's Poppin':
Who needs boost, use 130 octane gas!!! That would be complete overkill for any application. If you are familiar with what octane does and how it works you'd understand that 130 octane would be a waste. I don't even think you can get 130 octane. If you could a vehicle would have a very hard time running on it.

[summerlove]

BajaMike:
We were on one of the rental houseboats, the biggest one, I think called the "Admiral"?? We have a shared ownership boat, 73'. It's so nice up there, can't wait to get back, but it'll have to wait till next year. Rick

[What's Poppin']

Ah, but you can...we use it in our boat mixed with 92...runs great.

[Boozer]

What's Poppin':
Ah, but you can...we use it in our boat mixed with 92...runs great. Where do you find 130 octane? I could see it as being a good mixer but not using it to run straight. The key to octane is not burning the highest octane you can find. Octane burns slower so if over used it can actually rob power from your motor. For example diesel fuel is only like 50 octane but look how much power those motors make and that is because they can knock and knock and knock but no detonation.

[comin' unscrewed]

Genuine TETRAETHYL LEAD octane booster.
click here (http://www.kemcooil.com/products.php?cId=4)

[sorry dog]

The 130 octane you are refering to is probably 130/100 avgas. This has been replaced by 100LL so it is probably hard to find. Keep in mind that AVGAS is rated differently than the usual R + M average.
Toluene is a good octane booster that is supposed to be 114 motor and mid 120's research octane. Toluene is nasty stuff so if you use it be careful about skin contact and vapors and don't mix heavy. I've been told by some ex-circle track racers that they would mix 10:1.
If you want safer I've heard good stuff about something called TK-7 manufactured by Moshe Tal at TAL Technologies in Oklahoma City, OK.
Something else to keep in mind is that you take 1 part of 100 octane race gas and 1 part of 87 that doesn't necessarily mean you get 93.5 octane.

[LVjetboy]

So let's summarize.
Sandman asks, with only 87 at the dock is a booster worth it? Let's assume he means your typical little bottle of booster they sell at Checker Auto or at the Lake Powell dock. Quote from Powell dock hand: "Sure we only have 87, but we got some of that trick octane boost if you need it." End Qoute. I've heard that, thinking yea right, you didn't pay for this engine.
Boozer say No! Then says if they advertise 7 points, which many do, that means changing 87 to 87.7 At BEST copy? Whoa. Not even half-way between total crap gas and somewhat better crap gas.
Now at this point we don't know what engine Sandman runs. He's faded from the thread. Is his engine high compression tweaked to run on the ragged edge of 89 or 91 octane detonation? If so, will that extra lame-ass 0.7 octane protect his engine from destruction in temperature and load conditions he will run at Powell? Unlikely! And how does he or anyone else know their expensive boat engine is 7/10's of octane away from meltdown. Do you have a accurately calibrated knock sensor aboard? If you truly need premium then false security. If not then a waste of money.
Consider fancy little bottles of "Octane Boost" just short of some dude selling snake oil from a VW van.
Not only do those who buy it not know if they really need it, although they may claim otherwise, but they don't understand if they really did need it, it wouldn't help much.
Short of hauling gallons, yes that's right, freakin GALLONS of paint thinner or av gas in your back seat along with a cooler...the honey would love that huh? Nothing replaces good quality gas.
Which begs the question. Why the hell don't docks sell good quality gas in the first place??? Maybe they need enlightening from more of us? After all, just up the hill from the Wahweap marina is 91. So we're supposed to drag our boats out of the water and up the ramp to refill every couple hours?
Idiots. Although I did sacrifice about 50 hp just so I could run on their crappy "dock" gas. I refuse to haul gallons of av gas or paint thinner in my boat and I know first-hand those little bottles of boost are all but useless.
jer
[ August 03, 2003, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: LVjetboy ]

[mmered8299]

I go to Powell 3 times a year with a bunch of HP Boats. I just have a 496ho and can run with 87. While at the gas dock I'll watch them add cans of 104 boost. I don't know why Boozer says its crap these guys run it in their blown high compression motors and run it all day up there w/no problem.

[HOSS]

And do a rebuild once a year. Octane boost is, was, and always will be,,,,,,BULLSHIT!
496HO? If you run and can run 87 without knocks,,,,whats so HO about it?
Buy quality fuel. There really is no substitiute.
Why do you need more than 87 anyway? Lets all see if he can answer this first. You may not need but 87 to begin with.
Instead of octane boost run mothballs. Same effect. same chemicals. One is liquid and one is crystallized.
[ August 03, 2003, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: HOSS ]

[Hal]

Octane boosters (http://www.team.net/sol/tech/octane_b.html)
More Info (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneexplained.html)
[ August 03, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Hal ]

[LVjetboy]

So why don't marinas on lake Mead and Powell sell 91? Seems like there's enough demand.
jer