Judge willing to bankrupt farmers for birds

[Seadog]

A federal judge has ruled that the Corp of Engineers must lower the Missouri enough to shut down barge traffic, making sure that grain will not be shipped. If they do not do it by Friday, she will fine them $500,000 per day. It could have the effect of bankrupting farmers and completely killing barge traffic.
The only reason for this is to accomodate the breeding areas fo the Lesser Tern and other 'endangered' wildlife. The environmentalists have stated that their goal is to return the river flow to the flood or drought conditions in the past.
There use to be a day when the judiciary was a part of the government, not a government separate and sovereign over the elected government.

[JOHNNYBEGOOD]

Why caint they ship the grain by trucks? Not that I care about the birds over the farmers. I just do not see how that would stop them from shipping the grain.

[rrrr]

JOHNNYBEGOOD:
Why caint they ship the grain by trucks? Not that I care about the birds over the farmers. I just do not see how that would stop them from shipping the grain. One barge can haul over two million pounds of grain. An 18 wheeler can carry around 43,000 pounds. So 46 truckloads carrying the same load times a 1200 mile trip at $1.45 a mile equals $80,000 or thereabouts. The barge would cost around $13,000 for the same mileage.
That $67,000 comes out of someone's pocket, and I suspect it's the farmer's. It's "only" $.03 a pound, but that's probably the farmer's entire profit on the grain.

[JOHNNYBEGOOD]

I would think that the farmers would pass that $0.03 onto the consumer. That way they would keep there profit, the trucking industry would get a big boost ( I am in the transportation industry ), and the birds are breeding. This makes everyone happy except the bardge drivers.

[Boozer]

JOHNNYBEGOOD:
I would think that the farmers would pass that $0.03 onto the consumer. That way they would keep there profit, the trucking industry would get a big boost ( I am in the transportation industry ), and the birds are breeding. This makes everyone happy except the bardge drivers. When you talking .03 per pound the buyer buys by then ton. You're talking $60 more a ton. That would have to be spent. Average load is about 22 tons and you talking a difference of $1320 a load. So because the buyer has to pay more the consumer now pays more for and dairy product or meat product. Pretty nasty trickle down affect.

[rrrr]

Yeah, but that's just one of the costs that increase. The grain terminal is gonna charge a penny or two more for loading the trucks. Same unloading it. Prolly costs more to insure 46 loads on the road instead of one on the river.
Spillage is going to increase, so that's just unrecoverable loss. The buyer at the other end isn't going to care about the birds. He can opt to buy grain that came from areas closer to the terminal and is therefore cheaper. It gets ugly pretty quickly.
[ July 23, 2003, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: rrrr ]

[HalletDave]

The judge should go finger f--k herself. eek!
Tell the environmentalist assholes to leave well enough alone.
After centuries of flooding the Lesser Terns are still around. :rolleyes:
You would think by now the "Terns" would have learned not to build their nests so close to the bank of the river. :D
HD

[Jungle Boy]

Keep screwing the people the feed everyone and the planet will soon be right back where it started from, then the environmentalists will be finally happy. Dead but happy.

[Seadog]

JBG: If the farmers had a captive market, they couldpass on the costs, but they have to compete with other farmers in the US, Canada and elsewhere. Farmers struggle when everything goes right. They don't need any more headaches.
Maybe the judge needs to work a few months on a farm or barge.

[Catmando]

This situation is but one tiny example of human encroachment into the wild world, and similar things are happening all over the earth. The judge's ruling is like putting her finger into a dike and hoping to stop the flood.
I used to think we could share this planet with other creatures in harmony, but that was 40 years ago when I was a hippie. I have no idealistic illusions on that matter now.
The human race is breeding its way into extinction, and we will take a fair number of species with us.
[ July 23, 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Catmando ]

[Kindsvater Flat]

2 months to go and this will be my speed demon. Man I just love farming. Glad I have a second job.
http://atthefarm.mystarband.net/Farm/harvest1.JPG

[HCS]

Must be nice!, got a job for me? :rolleyes:

[wsuwrhr]

Catmando:
This situation is but one tiny example of human encroachment into the wild world, and similar things are happening all over the earth. The judge's ruling is like putting her finger into a dike and hoping to stop the flood.
I used to think we could share this planet with other creatures in harmony, but that was 40 years ago when I was a hippie. I have no idealistic illusions on that matter now.
The human race is breeding its way into extinction, and we will take a fair number of species with us. Unfotunately I have to agree to a point with you Cat. Look at the problems we have with water in Ca. There are still MORE houses being built. I'm pretty sure there is running water in all of them.
One trip to Mead and it is depressing. 50 or more feet from the high water mark last year when I was there.
I know alot of that water is being used to fill up Diamond Valley reservoir, but we are in a serious drought, and no end in sight.
Brian

[Kindsvater Flat]

HARDCORE-SKI:
Must be nice!, got a job for me? :rolleyes: Can you run a hoe? :D
Working for farmers is not where its at. You can take almost any job and over 40hrs you get OT. Well in farming OT doesn't start until 60hrs and its even higher depending on the job.

[wsuwrhr]

That is one heck of a lawn mower Kindsvator. Two months to go means you are buying one, or in two months you are going to harvest?
I always thought I should have born on a farm. I have said I was a country boy trapped in the city.
Brian

[rrrr]

Catmando:
This situation is but one tiny example of human encroachment into the wild world, and similar things are happening all over the earth. The judge's ruling is like putting her finger into a dike and hoping to stop the flood.
I used to think we could share this planet with other creatures in harmony, but that was 40 years ago when I was a hippie. I have no idealistic illusions on that matter now.
The human race is breeding its way into extinction, and we will take a fair number of species with us. Hey Cat, I don't want to start a pizzin match, but if the Lesser Tern is pushed into extinction because the Missouri River provides billions of dollars in trade....Then the answer is pretty easy. The existence of many hard working people and the availability of affordable food is dependent on this issue.
Species have been disappearing since the dawn of time. As an example, the extinction of the passenger pigeon in the 1920's has had no effect on our lives other than the fact that there is one less bird species to shit on our cars.
You of all people should recognize that hardship should not visit a hard working farmer because some corduroy wearing dipshit doesn't understand real life.
Human encroachment? Hullo. If you are so concerned about it then go out tomorrow morning and chop up your boat with a sawzall. You think the tiny little bluegills like it as your big boat roars over their head spewing pollutants into their habitat? I bet you have killed helpless fishies with your whirling propeller of death, even as you callously sped over them drinking beer and listening to loud rock music.
If you are gonna talk the talk, then walk it too. Post the pics of your boat being dismembered so we will know it is no longer a threat to the harmony of our existence with the tiny little creatures.
[ July 23, 2003, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: rrrr ]

[Kindsvater Flat]

Harvest. We just finished harvesting onions. We also have cotton, and vineseeds. I harvest rice for a friend. Those are his harvesters. They are 200k+ by the time you buy the header and all the other crap.....he has 4.

[wsuwrhr]

Kindsvater Flat:
Harvest. We just finished harvesting onions. We also have cotton, and vineseeds. I harvest rice for a friend. Those are his harvesters. They are 200k+ by the time you buy the header and all the other crap.....he has 4. There are times when I can barely afford my machining center. DAMN, 800,000, no wonder why farmers have a hard time making ends meet. How long do those badboys last?
Brian

[Kindsvater Flat]

wsuwrhr:
Kindsvater Flat:
Harvest. We just finished harvesting onions. We also have cotton, and vineseeds. I harvest rice for a friend. Those are his harvesters. They are 200k+ by the time you buy the header and all the other crap.....he has 4. There are times when I can barely afford my machining center. DAMN, 800,000, no wonder why farmers have a hard time making ends meet. How long do those badboys last?
Brian Running stripper headers you can kill the sheet metal in less than a 1000hrs. After that you sell it or replace on the troughs with stainless skins. The motors last forever. Its the rest thats junk.

[wsuwrhr]

rrrr:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Catmando:
[qb] Hey Cat, I don't want to start a pizzin match, but if the Lesser Tern is pushed into extinction because the Missouri River provides billions of dollars in trade....Then the answer is pretty easy.
Species have been disappearing since the dawn of time. The existence of many hard working people and the availability of affordable food is dependent on this issue. As an example, the extinction of the passenger pigeon in the 1920's has had no effect on our lives other than the fact that there is one less bird species to shit on our cars.
You of all people should recognize that hardship should not visit a hard working farmer because some corduroy wearing dipshit doesn't understand real life.
Human encroachment? Hullo. If you are so concerned about it then go out tomorrow morning and chop up your boat with a sawzall. You think the tiny little bluegills like it as your big boat roars over their head spewing pollutants into their habitat? I bet you have killed helpless fishies with your whirling propeller of death, even as you callously sped over them drinking beer and listening to loud rock music.
If you are gonna talk the talk, then walk it too. Post the pics of your boat being dismembered so we will know it is no longer a threat to the harmony of our existence with the tiny little creatures. Better yet, let me know where I can PICK up your boat, I will be more than happy to use your propeller of death.
This is what I meant when I said I agree with him to a point.
I love it when the peace marchers, eco-nazis, and "delhi sands flower loving fly" luvin' mother****ers DRIVE up to their various protests in the car they have and get out wearing SHOES, and walk over and do their little protest thing.
Do they have any idea how many insects they crushed walking to their spot? What kind of animals, and insects they have DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY killed by driving their car? You could write a book on the undesireable direct and indirect reprocussions of our technological advancements we have made.
I can't remember a time when I felt sad by killing a spider, or kicked a snail off my porch. Well...there was this one time, at band camp, while riding my skateboard, I got a fly in my mouth. Wasn't good, immediately started dry heaving.
Thanks for making me think of that....
Brian

[Jungle Boy]

"There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes" :D

[JOHNNYBEGOOD]

Seadog, please dont take me wrong. I for one know that there is not much room for profit in farming. Both of my grandparents are small time farmers. They both have real jobs that support there love for the land, and there love for farming.
I am in the trucking industry. Just as there is not much profit in farming there may be less in hauling freight. The competition with large trucking companies ( J.B.Hunt and the like ), trains, and barge traffic is driving the small family trucking companys out of bussiness ( just like the samll time family farmers ).
I was just thinking that I may want some of that grain action if the barge traffic was to stop. I was just thinking about myself, and my drivers. We could use the extra work.

[sorry dog]

**** the children, flat minnows, and spotted owls. I'm having a good time now.

[Seadog]

JBG, I know fully the problems of trucking, but the grain is not going to help trucking. The grain haulers are kept busy making the runs from the elevators to the ports and other short runs. Grain runs are seasonal and the trucking problems are year long. It is hard for small trucking outfits to make a decent living, but to be honest, the problem is that too many independents that are doing ok, decide to add a truck or two or three. Then they hit a bad patch and instead of owing for one truck, they owe on several. Then to compete with the other outfits, they cut their margins to nothing, making the other outfits do likewise.
As far as endangered species go, I am all for practical measures to protect species, but not at the expense of the lives and livihood of humans. Environmentalists have bitched about the effect man has had on the poor creatures. Guess what? They have been millions of species that have become extinct without man's help, several species of the genus Homo included.
[ July 24, 2003, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: Seadog ]