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Outnumbered
10-09-2003, 02:07 PM
We will be building our first pool shortly and do not want to have any regrets. Any tips or advise would be appreciated. Some of my main questions are Pebble Tec vs plaster, bottom colors, decking/coping, best heater/filter/control type, cooling options (we are moving to Phoenix area), fiber optics, attached vs detached spa, and salt water vs standard systems.
I know the sky is the limit but we are trying to keep costs down but at the same time don't want to make a mistake. Which options are a must have, worth the cost, etc.
Thanks,
OL

hot_diggity_dog
10-09-2003, 02:11 PM
No matter what go solar heated.
HDD :cool:

Ziggy
10-09-2003, 02:18 PM
Old Lavey:
We will be building our first pool shortly and do not want to have any regrets Which options are a must have, worth the cost, etc.
Thanks,
OL I'd think a hole in the ground would be must option :D
A remote to control pool from inside a BIG plus, especially when you want to heat the spa and its cold outside up there in Arrowhead.

Slick
10-09-2003, 02:21 PM
OL
sent ya a pm. I just put a pool in in February. Lots of things learned. Give me a buzz, too much to list here.

riverbound
10-09-2003, 02:26 PM
Just had our pool switched from chlorine to salt and it is awesome. Took a few weeks to get the mixture right, but now it is great.

ROZ
10-09-2003, 02:26 PM
Slick:
OL
sent ya a pm. I just put a pool in in February. Lots of things learned. Give me a buzz, too much to list here. The real question is, can he get it as cheap as you did yours? wink :D

H20 Party Starter
10-09-2003, 02:29 PM
Shape it like giant TITS!!!!!!!!!!!
wink

summerlove
10-09-2003, 02:30 PM
I went through this a few years ago. Add an auto fill system, so when your away, you don't have to worry about someone coming by to fill the pool for you. I have plaster but wish I had pebble-tec, the tahoe Blue is VERY nice looking when the pool is full.
Do not use jacuzzi products. I have already replaced all of mine.
Get a double pump one for the spa and one for the pool. You can circulate both that way without always having to reheat the spa. Be sure to have enough HP to run the spa with sufficient force so it's not like farting in the bathtub.
I like my spa overflowing into the pool, nice waterfall effect. The raised spa is very nice, and when you're in it, you can survey your kingdom!
Add a remote spa control at the spa.
I added a "shamu" step, same level as the second pool step, and made a shelf. It's great for hanging out on with a beer and tunes.
In AZ, I'm not sure a solar setup will do you any good. A cooler yes, but as a heater, no.
Good luck!

roln 20s
10-09-2003, 02:35 PM
Hey OL-
Pebble Tec is suppose to last forever, Plaster should be redone after about 8-10 years (i know our old house should have been).
Fiberoptics are real nice, but definately are expensive.
I would definately put an attached spa (spillway, etc..) in with the pool- the combo is great. I have a ton of designs that I drew for my house, plus quite a few pics of nice pools from models. However, those you see in most models are easily 50K +. A nice pool, spa with extra decking and a water feature is 30K!
My manager at work has that salt systems, and says that it really isn't all that. Her's was through Shasta and she says its hard to keep it constant with enough salt, etc..
Definately get the infloor cleaning system (if they have a good one) because after your first dust storm, you will be glad.
I believe Hayward is the pump that I hear used most often. What pool builder are you using?
Do you have a copy of your lot plot with your floorplan on it? If so, forward it to me sometime, I'd love to just draw up some cool designs- FREE services, just cuz its fun. I had numerous drawings when I was looking for a pool, in fact a couple of those designs have been used and built by the pool builders. I decided I just want a spa so the other 25+ K can go to my own boat.
Roln 20s

BiggusJimbus
10-09-2003, 02:36 PM
The dark colored plasters look cool (in my opinion) and will absorb more radiant heat during the day.
Regular shapes (That means rectangular) are Much easier to cover and uncover to help preserve heat. A cover can also help keep crap out of the pool and make cleaning easier.

NorCal Gameshow
10-09-2003, 02:40 PM
i love my tahoe blue plaster but in az it's going to kick the water temp up. my bro has pebble tec it looks great,lasts a long time, but it's hard on the feet...over size your filter so you don't have to clean it as much.. i like my bull nose coping (no sharp edge).solar will help you in the spring and fall. i hear it will help cool your pool if you run it at night...my solar had my pool in the triple digits this summer...great for night swimming smile_sp

ROZ
10-09-2003, 02:47 PM
NorCal Gameshow:
i like my bull nose coping (no sharp edge). This reminds me....Any type of rock coping(slate or flag) will disinigrate over time...Duh, water splashes on it...A few pools I've cleaned in the past had it, and every so often I'd have to net or vac the broken particles from the bottom of the pool...Kids like to climb in and out from the sides, so scrapes and sometimes cuts result...

91nordic29
10-09-2003, 02:48 PM
no need for any kind of heating here in arizona. actually, we have to run an aerator just to keep it on the cool refreshing side. pool tends to be like bath water sometimes.
pebbletec
in - floor cleaning
aerator
play pool (unless you like diving in)
2nd step bench seat
sand filter
my .02

STGP
10-09-2003, 02:49 PM
Old Lavey,
Congrats on your new pool, I put one in 3 years ago and we love it. Here's my view, I went with pebble Tec, if you use a darker color it keeps your pool about 4 degrees warmer than white plaster and believe me 4 degrees can make a huge difference plus it looks totally custom and shows less dirt. The most important thing is make the pool as big as you can, it's like a boat (never too big). The spa is what we use most, between the kids and MRS.STGP we use it almost everyday year around, and again make it BIG (also spas get the party started).Like HDD said solor in addition to a heater is a good thing if you have somewere to mount the solor pannels that won't look like shit.As far as a pool cleaning system I would suggest a sucking system as opposed to a pushing system, I have a polaris and it seems to get stuck in certain places in the pool.I went with what they call a clorineless system called a Frog system it makes it's own clorine but uses a booster cartrige. The clorineless system is a good idea but I would not recomend the Frog, the cartriges are way too expensive and in the summer they use about 1 every 10 days.There are other clorineless systems that work great my friend has one but I cannot recall the name, I can get it for you if you want it. Finally I would highly suggest that you put in an automatic control system and mount a panel inside the house it makes life alot easier. sorry to be so long winded but I hope this helps.
PS
I'll try to post a pic or two of my pool so you can see the Pebble Tec.

Warlock28
10-09-2003, 02:51 PM
Pebble Tec, Saltwater, Beach Area w/hole for umbrella, Multiple Pumps for water features/spa/pool, Multicolored Lights that sync and change, Auto-Fill, Planters formed in the decking with walkway lights, Salt Finish on the decking concrete, Attached Spa w/ Water feature.
Have Fun!!
Just completed ours!!
:D :D :D

NorCal Gameshow
10-09-2003, 02:59 PM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2255-thumb.JPG
ours is pretty basic..about 6 feet deep in the middle with a couple sheer descents as a water feature..(nice for drowning out background noise)

91nordic29
10-09-2003, 03:00 PM
PS--
i would consider a detached spa. in the winter it is quicker to heat and uses less energy to keep heated because you dont have to heat the ground around it first.

summerlove
10-09-2003, 03:07 PM
Warlock28:
Salt Finish on the decking concrete, Dirt collects in it and when you are trying to keep the pool deck area clean, it makes matters worse, IMO. Sorry, but is it a haven for dirt and being that the pool will be in the desert sand will be a problem.
Also, forgot to add automatic chlorinator. For an automatic cleaner, I use the kreepy-krawley, works fine, no complaints.

Mandelon
10-09-2003, 03:07 PM
Our house had an existing pool that had been empty for 20 years. It required a lot of work. We used the 3M Quartz plaster. It comes in a lot of colors and adds a richer look that regular plaster, plus it is easier on the feet. The Pebbletec can really tear up your knuckles if you scrape them. It is rough on the feet too.
We have a rolling automated cover that is awesome. It cost like $6000 but takes care of the fencing issue, keeps out dogs, leaves, and saves chemicals. It also heats up the pool by several degrees, and cuts down temp loss at night. We have solar heating too. It works great. Keeps the pool at 87 all summer and would heat it up a lot if sunny in the winter. You hardly have to vacuum the pool since the cover keeps most of the junk out.
We have Jacuzzi pump and filter system. Works well. Our spa is a portable and sits elsewhere on the deck.

Trailer Park Casanova
10-09-2003, 03:11 PM
You're doing the right thing in asking everyone Ol Lavey.
In my last house I had the biggest residential pool in Ventura county, 29' x 60'. Split level decking,,, awsum.
Where I messed up,, and should have listened to the excavator and not the pool builder was shallow end depth.
My shallow end was to deep and to far out.
Just be a SOB if the kids attempt to dive in the shallow end, and make it flat and reasonable because its where everyone socializes.
I was worried someone would dive into it and get hurt so made the shallow kinda to deep and it sucked.
From your posts you come across as a decent guy,, but you have to be a first class Pr*ck with pool builders.
Watch, make sure the pump return or inlet lines and trap are on the same side of the pool as your pump and filter/heater.
If you're not useing fiber optic lighting or DC lighting,, make sure the grounds are correct.
Get the biggest heater they offer.
If it's a gunite pool,,, abso****inlutely make sure they have a brushman ahead of the gunite nozzle operator and be a first class pr*ck if they aren't on the ball. If the brushman starts shootin the sh*t while he should be brushin,, speak up. This is a one chance operation, very inportant.

STGP
10-09-2003, 03:16 PM
The pics
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/598P1010013-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/598P1010010-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/598P1010009-med.JPG

summerlove
10-09-2003, 03:21 PM
STGP:
The pics
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/598P1010009-med.JPG Very nice set up. The added Shamu (or whatever it's called) is a very nice touch for socializing. It was the best thing I did with my pool. OL, You should consider this! Mine is much smaller, but similar in the overall layout. Nice job!

ROZ
10-09-2003, 03:30 PM
STGP, thanks for posting the pics...That's similar to what we're doing.. I like the cantilever coping. Ours is a freeform playpool with a dark sandy brown pebbletec bottom all the way up the side with a few sea shell and starfish tiles scattered around the bottom of both the spa and pool. The only trim tile will be a faux traverntine around the raised spa. Basic water features....Like Summerlove, we are making the second step of the entry large(shamu step) enough to accomodate a couple chairs... It's a cool feature to hang out on as well as a good play spot for the kids to chill on...
It looks great!

91nordic29
10-09-2003, 03:35 PM
very nice!!
we are going to have our plaster replaced this winter and i believe that we are going to go with the pebble tec. it is alot smoother than when it first came out. we are also adding the "shamu" seat and a pub - height table in the shallow end. it is where everyone socializes.
[ October 09, 2003, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: 91nordic29 ]

summerlove
10-09-2003, 03:46 PM
ROZ:
STGP, thanks for posting the pics...That's similar to what we're doing.. I like the cantilever coping. Ours is a freeform playpool with a dark sandy brown pebbletec bottom all the way up the side with a few sea shell and starfish tiles scattered around the bottom of both the spa and pool. The only trim tile will be a faux traverntine around the raised spa. Basic water features....Like Summerlove, we are making the second step of the entry large(shamu step) enough to accomodate a couple chairs... It's a cool feature to hang out on as well as a good play spot for the kids to chill on...
It looks great! Are you in San Elijo Hills?

Dave C
10-09-2003, 04:01 PM
whats a pool?

ROZ
10-09-2003, 04:48 PM
summerlove:
ROZ:
STGP, thanks for posting the pics...That's similar to what we're doing.. I like the cantilever coping. Ours is a freeform playpool with a dark sandy brown pebbletec bottom all the way up the side with a few sea shell and starfish tiles scattered around the bottom of both the spa and pool. The only trim tile will be a faux traverntine around the raised spa. Basic water features....Like Summerlove, we are making the second step of the entry large(shamu step) enough to accomodate a couple chairs... It's a cool feature to hang out on as well as a good play spot for the kids to chill on...
It looks great! Are you in San Elijo Hills? Nope, I do have a couple friends who live up there and my commute zips me through there a few times a week though...Service a complex's pool off La Costa ave. Elfin forest is the backway home.. We live on the East side of San Marcos...Near Woodland Parkway....Are you near there? you should post a pic or two of your pool...

Mandelon
10-09-2003, 06:00 PM
We have that enlarged step, although it was called a Baja Step by our guys. Drop in a couple of plastic chairs and you are keeping cool fo shizzle.

SandbarScot
10-09-2003, 06:41 PM
Old Lavey,
Everyone seems to have great input and I agree. I had our pool built 2 years ago.
Hayward Equip - GREAT - Navigator is a must
Wish I went to Solar Heating, but Phoenix area is a different story
The one thing that is not mentioned is calcium. I have flagstone coping that lines the pool and drops below the water level. The flagstone acts as a sponge and sucks up the water. When it evaporates, it leaves white calcium marks on the flagstone that is difficult to remove. With our type of water here, I wouldn't do that again.
Baja step - awesome! Hole in it for umbrella - never use it.
GOOD LUCK!

summerlove
10-09-2003, 07:14 PM
ROZ:
summerlove Nope, I do have a couple friends who live up there and my commute zips me through there a few times a week though...Service a complex's pool off La Costa ave. Elfin forest is the backway home.. We live on the East side of San Marcos...Near Woodland Parkway....Are you near there? you should post a pic or two of your pool... Here'a a pic of the pool, you can see the Cabo/Shamu step (Mandelon - my pool guy called it a cabo step as well - Azure Pools in S.D.)
I have a pretty small yartd, that's what you get the closer you get to the beach!
Roz, I'm off Olivenhain Road, just east of El Camino Real.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/951HPIM1116-med.JPG

ROZ
10-09-2003, 07:33 PM
SandbarScot:
Baja step - awesome! Hole in it for umbrella - never use it.
GOOD LUCK! I'm gonna have to do that!!!!
SL, refreshing looking pool! Is your spa 18" above the pool? It's like a throne up there...lol

Just Tool'n
10-09-2003, 07:45 PM
Go with pebble tec, Mine needs to be replastered next year & will do pebble-tec. Where I live I wish I had solar heating.
A guy that works for me is putting in a pool, He is acting as the general cont, & hiring all of the work out himself.
Claims a $55K pool is going to cost him about $29k when done.
Now that sounds like a good chunk of change to save!

Tom Brown
10-09-2003, 07:48 PM
H20 Party Starter:
Shape it like giant TITS!!!!!!!!!!!
wink I second the vote for the Hanson spa. :D

ROZ
10-09-2003, 07:54 PM
Just Tool'n:
Go with pebble tec, Mine needs to be replastered next year & will do pebble-tec. Where I live I wish I had solar heating.
A guy that works for me is putting in a pool, He is acting as the general cont, & hiring all of the work out himself.
Claims a $55K pool is going to cost him about $29k when done.
Now that sounds like a good chunk of change to save! easy to do... Mine is going to run about 16k for a 45k pool......although it helps to know a few peoplein the business wink
[ October 09, 2003, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: ROZ ]

OutCole'd
10-09-2003, 08:17 PM
I just have to chime in on this one. I just went through having a pool put in this summer.
Get the spa raised to flow into the pool. Nice effect.
The inground floor cleaners work great. No hoses to deal with.
Shamoo step with the umbrella hole is the ticket for me. In the heat of the day, it is nice to kick it in the shade, and still be in the water.
Pebble tech looks great, and is no rougher to me than any other pool I have been in.
I put four benches 18" under the water line all around the pool to sit on, also the kids use them as steps to get in & out of the pool.
Good luck with it.
Here are some pics.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1075Pool_7-9-03_001.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1075Pool_7-9-03_003.jpg http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1075Pool_7-9-03_002.jpg
[ October 09, 2003, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: OutCole'd ]

locogringo
10-09-2003, 08:43 PM
Can someone explain the salt water over chlorine benefits. We were looking at a house that had the salt water and me being new to pools thought that it was like an actual salt water pool such as the Ocean! Now I think I know better :D .
Do you still get the "stick" as salt water tends to give?

Outnumbered
10-09-2003, 09:17 PM
I am sure glad I asked this question. I knew there would be a few things but you guys brought up a few issues and good ideas I didn't even think of.
I learned from doing a major remodel on my current home that in retrospect there are always a few things you would have done differently.
Great advise. Thanks for taking the time to chime-in. I will bring a print-out of this thread with me to my pool builder meeting.
OL

ROZ
10-09-2003, 10:13 PM
locogringo:
Can someone explain the salt water over chlorine benefits. We were looking at a house that had the salt water and me being new to pools thought that it was like an actual salt water pool such as the Ocean! Now I think I know better :D .
Do you still get the "stick" as salt water tends to give? The perception is wrong that swimming in a saltwater sanitized pool is equivalent to swimming in ocean water. A saltwater sanitized pool system does require the addition of salt to the swimming pool water, but only in a very mild solution. Saltwater sanitizers typically require a concentration of only 0.50% salt (about half as salty as a human teardrop). This compares to sea water and our own bodies, which have a salinity concentration of 3.75%.
This mild , pleasant saline water is sanitized through the process of electrolysis. This electrolytic cell, through the use of a small electric current, breaks down the water into it's basic elements, Hydrogen and Oxygen. By adding small quantities of granulated salt (much like household table salt-NaCI), Hypochlorous Acid (common chlorine) is produced. During the process, the Hypochlorous Acid (Chlorine) is ultimately converted back to salt. Thus, the salt does not get "used up". Salt only needs to be "topped off" once or twice a year and only to replace salt lost due to water splash-out and/or filter backwash.
I pulled that from a website...In a nutshel: Because chlorine is made today by passing an electrical current through a solution of salt water, running a saltwater based system is like having your own miniature Chemical plant... :D The difference is the salt ratio...
It's still a chlorinated pool, you just don't physically add Cl to the water...
As with any type of sanitizing system, weather, filtration, and useage will dictate how well it works...I personally prefer balancing chemicals...Once a base is met, it's usually pretty easy to maintain... Then again, you can always hire a pool guy....Then it's like Kool-aid, you just have to add water and swim.....

ROZ
10-09-2003, 10:34 PM
SandbarScot:
The one thing that is not mentioned is calcium. I have flagstone coping that lines the pool and drops below the water level. The flagstone acts as a sponge and sucks up the water. When it evaporates, it leaves white calcium marks on the flagstone that is difficult to remove. With our type of water here, I wouldn't do that again.
This is partly cause by PH and Alkalinity being too high. Reducing them both and maybe keep the PH a little to the acidic side(if you see to have calcium deposit problems) of your "OK" zone should help keep calcium and metals in the water under control... :)
Be glad you don't have a black bottom pool....

Coughlin's Law
10-10-2003, 12:03 AM
Word of caution regarding the raised spa design...
If it's on the other side of the pool, away from the house (like mine), your neighbors might have "full view" of nightly "spa escapades" and "close encounters" eek! from the luxury of their upstairs bedroom windows. Beware.
Or if you don't care turn the spa light ON and tell 'em to "come on over, suits are optional".
Seriously, something to think about if you want privacy.
Coughlin

hot_diggity_dog
10-10-2003, 05:43 AM
OL,
I have in my design a swim up bar with a Palapa umbrella, and a raised bar on the other side for people not in the pool. :D
I also am a fan of infinity edge pools. :D
This is like getting a new boat. :D LOL
Good luck wink
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/502/318Mynewpool.jpg
HDD :cool:

ROZ
10-10-2003, 08:24 AM
HDD,
YOUR pool looks great! wink I think you need a plasma tv out by the spa...It's great for pornos :D

OGShocker
10-10-2003, 09:13 AM
One of my best friends is Jeff Kerber. He is working with two of the top pool builders in So. Cal, Malins and Blue Haven. He has a product that is AWESOME, by the name of Kerber Rock. You can call his office at (909) 465-0677 tell Jeff or Daniel Neighbor Mark sent you.
Jeff's web page (http://www.jeffkerber.com/)

summerlove
10-10-2003, 09:29 AM
hot_diggity_dog:
OL,
I have in my design a swim up bar with a Palapa umbrella, and a raised bar on the other side for people not in the pool. :D
I also am a fan of infinity edge pools. :D
This is like getting a new boat. :D LOL
Good luck wink
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/502/318Mynewpool.jpg
HDD :cool: Very nice set up. I wish I had the room! Doesn't some other board member use your pool pic as his avatar??? I thought it was HIS pool, not your's. Is that in AZ or CA?

ROZ
10-10-2003, 10:03 AM
No, I think it's in somewhere much more remote....Like Poway or something... :p :D

WetWillie
10-10-2003, 11:19 AM
Damn,
And they told me that mine was one of a kind!!
WW
:p
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/505/318HousealoneWallpaper1_copy.bmp

SandbarScot
10-10-2003, 04:13 PM
How'd you get all those pics of my house? wink