Posting rules?

[Craig]

Given that JR's negative experiences with a boat builder were deleted, are we to assume this is not allowed? I didn't see anything in the terms that says I couldn't post facts as I know them. The opposing side of the offending post would have more then ample opportunity to refute any negative press. Has the censor gestapo arrived? A few other boards don't like people posting negative stuff about their sponsors either. So whats the deal?
This was such a great place to get good AND bad dealings from people to help us before we drop money that's sometimes more than what our houses cost!

[hot_diggity_dog]

This was such a great place to get good AND bad dealings from people to help us before we drop money that's sometimes more than what our houses cost! Good point Craig, wink I think we should wait and see the new site, wink and deal with any issues as they come up. argue
Sh@$@!%$#t we got the Bikini's Archives back. :D :p smile_sp
HDD :cool:

[***boat]

The problem is that it is turning into a lawsuit. You can say what you want until a lawsuit comes along. It is along the same lines as character assassination. If you want the reason why saying derogatory things about a company can turn into a lawsuit I will get it from a lawyer as soon as this site transfer calms down a little.
If you have proof then I suggest you take it to small claims court and you can report on the lawsuit. Please e-mail me if you would like to speak to me in person about this.
Believe me I would rather have everyone just fight it out, but that is not an option. (and I am not endorsing fighting)

[hot_diggity_dog]

The problem is that it is turning into a lawsuit. You can say what you want until a lawsuit comes along. It is along the same lines as character assassination. If you want the reason why saying derogatory things about a company can turn into a lawsuit I will get it from a lawyer as soon as this site transfer calms down a little. You have to draw the line some where. yuk
HDD :cool:

[Charley]

Ok..... so if any of you smartasses(basically everyone here) start talking smack about my boat im taking yer asses to small claims :D

[Charley]

Wait a sec..... ***boat I'm sueing 6 people right now for incorrectly reporting me as a 40 year old! I want all threads that dont state my youthfull age of 37 deleted immediately!

[Craig]

Sue you, sue me, sue everybody, lawyers got to make a living :D Seriously though, I guess the webmaster (***boat) will let the lawyers look at the situation and then go from there. They don't want to support slander, which in todays marketplace, I can understand. I just don't know what slander legally is defined as. Opinions, I don't know. The part about the threat, probably as well as the supposed unproffesional comments from the builder. Sticky situation.There's two sides to the story. Now if he had it recorded and said as much, I'll bet this would have never been an issue, But right now it's just "he said, she said"

[JetBoatRich]

People will say things without thinking all the times, it is to bad others pay for the mistakes

[HavasuDreamin']

There has got to be a way for people to voice their positive and negative dealings with boat mfgs. without lawsuits being involved. We know tha magazine won't post negative press. There has to be a way on this site some how.

[XTRM22]

I think probably (thinking usually gets me in trouble) that the deleted thread might have been a little to specific for a public forum. It is to bad that the builder didn't come on and say something in their defense or at least say "they are in a dispute with this customer and don't feel that this forum is the correct vehicle for discussion. On the other hand I don't think any body is saying if you have a bad experience with a builder you can't state that in general terms. I'm sure anybodies attorney would have jumped on that thread with both feet calling defamation of character and heasay information.
Charley,
if you drop your suit for your age being incorrectly stated, I won't have to file a counter suit for your inferring that I was bald, my attorney agrees that I have a slightly receeding hair line. (charging me 300.00 per hour the SOB better agree with me! :D )
Chuck
[ February 19, 2003, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: XTRM22 ]

[twistedpair]

Sounds like the same "alleged" chicken-shit tactics referred to in a previous threads. "Shut up or I'll sue." Life's too short to deal with a**holes. I know there are two sides to every story, but if even half of what is said about (Manufacturer deleted) is true, I'd run, not walk out of their showroom.
And as for some "Alleged" punkass salesman "Allegedly" threatening me with physical violence....Pack a Lunch pal, Cuz we're gonna be here awhile.
The preceding opinion is that of the writer, and in no way reflects the opinion of ***boat, it's staff, management, or advertisers.

[rivercrazy]

We should all use Twisted Pair's bottom sentence as our signature! I like it!
I know one thing....I will never purchase that brand of boat

[DogHouse]

What a mess this all turned into... What's next, censors walking around at the Sandbar making sure noone is saying anything negative about anyone or anything? I may not agree with everything that is said around here but I do try to respect everyone's right to express their views. Oh well, I don't really understand all of the legal implications so I won't complain too loudly. Best to leave it to the judgement of the ***boat staff and legal counsel.
I did learn one thing from all this... In the future, NO builder is going to get any money out of me until the boat is done and passes my inspection. Of course that probably means that no builder will build a boat for me! Good thing that I'm super happy with my M**** Cat and won't need to buy another... Oops, almost said that word again!
:D

[1stepcloser]

Rules…we got some rules around here!
1. This is a family oriented site. Please limit foul language to socially acceptable epithets only. (Examples of these are damn, crap, piss, etc.) (Unacceptable examples are ****, shit, cock, etc.)
2. Please limit your disrespect of other members. If you feel the urge to show your dissatisfaction of another, please practice common courtesy. (Exceptions to this rule are broad, and open to interpretation. For example, if the member whom the disrespect is being directed at is a friend, family member, or at the very least, a person with whom you have made a personal acquaintance, then it is acceptable.)
3. Use of designated forums. Please practice discretion in where you post a topic. There are currently 16 different area’s available to post in. (Unless you’re a Moderator.) Please try to keep your post in a related forum. (Examples of this would include, but not be limited to, a question regarding a Volvo out drive posted in the Just Jets forum, or casual chitchat posted in the Hot Boats forum.)
4. Arguing in any forum. Please do not argue. It is not only pointless, but it is a ridiculous waste of time. (Examples of this are “my boat is faster than everyone else’s boat! “ “Shut up, asshole, your boat cant even float” Etc, etc.) Further examples can be found in the Bench Racing forum. If an argument is incited, it is to be accepted that all parties involved must accept the certain ridicule of other members.
5. Editing of posts. Please avoid editing other member’s posts when quoting them. It can lead to an “argument”. See rule 4 regarding argument’s. (Examples of this are, “You are a fag!” Quote;” I am a fag!”) Exceptions to this rule are vague, so none will be given.
6. Copyrighted material. It is an offense to plagiarize another member’s standardized statements. Once a member has coined a phrase, and repeated it, it becomes a copyrighted phrase, owned by the member. (Examples of this are, “Welcome to the Jungle” A phrase issued to new members.) Exceptions to this rule are if the owner has given up the copyrighted material publicly, on all open forums, or has relinquished possession by way of default. Default being the owning member has not posted once in the preceding 6 months.
7. Post Whoring. Please use discretion in this area. It is generally not accepted to post meaningless drivel in an effort to gain post count. There is no benefit in having a high post count. If you want to be really cool, you have to have a low member number.
8. Spam. This area is so vague that it will be left up the individual.
9. Booting of members. Only the almighty can boot a member. This is done on purpose, as it is good for the Almighty’s ego. (Voting, and tribal drums are allowed, if they are within the parameters of Rule 4.)
10. This rule is meant to cover all the things that are not currently mentioned here. More commonly referred to as “rules of convenience” it is meant as a blanket rule. (Examples of this would be, “Hey, I am offended by your avatar, my 15 year old son has never seen boobs!” Reply: “see rule 10”.)

[nmdcb]

censorship is never a good thing in my opinion. it is not difficult to figure out who is worth listening to and who is not. the above referenced matter considering magic did not seem so slanted in nature to me that it warranted removal. the ironic part in that whole situation is that the person bought a second boat from the same manufacturer even though they had bad dealings in the beginning. i do not think a manufacturer can get much better of a second chance to redeem themselves. just my opinion.

[Back To Havasu]

The legal counsel for ***boat is probably going to advise deleting anything that could in any way be the basis for dragging ***boat into any kind of litigation. If someone says something on the board, the ***boat board, by "publishing it," if you will, becomes an additional defendant potentially in any lawsuit filed as a result of the board member's statement. Litigation is expensive to defend, even if you prevail, and I'm sure ***boat attornies want to avoid it at all costs. Just my $.02. :rolleyes:

[roostwear]

To make sure ***boat doesn't get sued, maybe all posts dealing with a personal opinion or reiteration of such, should be prefaced by the phrase "In my personal opinion, and obsolving ***boat Magazine and LFP Inc of any liability or threat of prosecution (ie, character assasination, slander, etc) resulting from the posting of said opinion, "
For instance:
In my personal opinion, and obsolving ***boat Magazine and LFP Inc of any liability or threat of prosecution (ie, character assasination, slander, etc) resulting from the posting of said opinion, so-and-so is a dick.
Maybe ***boat can just make each post start with that phrase to cut down on all that annoying cut and paste.

[mbrown2]

This is a bunch of crap...even if you delete the thread, does not mean it goes away...it was public record at one and can be called into evidence again, should have just locked the thread...you still have to have place to provide good and bad feedback against manufactures that screw customers...I would not buy a boat from Magic based on what has been stated on this board even if was 10% true.

[DogHouse]

RD,
There seem to be two threads missing. "After the sale" is gone altogether and the other one has been renamed to "Deleted Thread" and seriously neutered. JR was the originator of the neutered thread.

[hot_diggity_dog]

I also recall (whether it was said as a joke or not)that someone was going to kick his ass or some treat of violence. argue
That may be the major dealio. :confused:
I would have to say as much as I like Doghouse's boat I am not going to touch that manufacture in Havasu.
It will be a F-29, :D
I kind of like them, wink
just need to see how they run. eek! Charleeeeeeeeeeeee wink
HDD :cool:

[unleashed]

This is actually a public forum run by ***boat. I dont see how they could get in any trouble due to what people post here as long as they have a disclaimer on their site that states"That in no way the views stated on this forum represent in any way shape or form ***boats opinions bla bla bla. I have seen thousands of boards and have never heard of any company getting in trouble due to someones opinion on a public forum. Thats one of the things I liked about this forum is to view opinions on boats and relationship with some of these companies. I even enjoyed going back in forth with River Dave about Force. Oh well I guess we'll have to go to other forums to view personal views and dealings with manufacturers.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) devil

[HavasuDreamin']

As BacktoHavasu stated, even if ***boat put up a disclaimer, there is no guarantee they wouldn't get sued. Even if it was the most ridiculous, frivilous law suit, ***boat would still have to defend themselves if they were sued. Having to defend yourself costs money! Big $$$$$.

[Back To Havasu]

As I said before, it costs big money to defend lawsuits, even if you win. Also, in California, just about anyone can sue anyone else for anything with the hope of getting a nuisance settlement (ie an amount less than it would cost the defendant to defend the case). It was correctly stated that once it is published the suit can be filed, even if deleted. I am sure the ***boat decision makers are trying to figure out a screening device that will insulate them from liability, and allow them to successfully remove themselves early and cheaply from any potential litigation. :cool:

[unleashed]

I can see where you guys are coming from. So from what you are saying anyone on this forum who feels they've been slandered can sue ***boat. Geeezzz I guess ***boat better monitor these boards 24/7 or else they may go broke!!!! I hate bullshit lawsuits especially when they are used to bully a company such as ***boat. Oh well hopefully someone has the balls to stand up to these A$$holes whomever they may be(Notice I didnt mention their name).
Deano Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) devil

[Back To Havasu]

One last comment from the soapbox. Since almost all lawsuits are settled rather than litigated, each party usually bears its own costs and fees. Hence, the enormous expense just to defend yourself successfully. If a case is tried, and a clear victor emerges, sometimes, (not regularly), the winner will be awarded costs and fees. But in the vast majority of cases, and the plaintiff's attornies rely on this, the defense will settle for less than they calculate it will cost them to successfully defend the case. Again, I won't belabor the point any longer. wink

[roostwear]

If they face a lawsuit over what's posted HERE, imagine what would happen if they bit the hand that fed them!

[DogHouse]

roostwear:
If they face a lawsuit over what's posted HERE, imagine what would happen if they bit the hand that fed them! I would think that a company that sued one of its customers would soon find itself out of customers!

[unleashed]

I definitly understand ***boats decision. Can't say that I respect it but I understand. I would probably do the same thing if someone were sueing my company unless I had deep deep pockets(Which I do but they're only a 1/4 of the way full).
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com)

[Seadog]

Unfortunately, people will sue over anything. I heard on the news today that someone was suing a movie theater for showing commercials at the beginning. A trooper was killed when some idiot plowed into the back of his cruiser at high speed (probably drunk). The tank ruptured and the trooper was killed. The family has lawsuits against the dead driver's estate(not much there), Ford, the state, the vehicle leasing agency and the highway department and anyone else that has a remote connection. I suspect that if they could show his weapon discharge during the fire, they would sue S&W. It is apparent that the ABA has lost all dignity in the worship of the all mighty dollar. They make the Enron execs look like Mother Teresa.

[***boat]

Hot Boat Online is now reviewing and we will be coming out with a new policy in a few weeks. Our current policy does support and to an extent required the editing of the post. We are looking at changing that policy. No promises, but I do not like editing posts, and I will have to see what LFP legal says.
[ February 19, 2003, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: ***boat ]

[C2]

I too agree there is always two sides to every story. But to expect a manufacturer to come on the board and DEFEND themselves? Some of them are still tackling fax machines, let alone cyberspace :D :rolleyes: :D
Seems like an unreasonable burden and expectation to me.
Cyber-Libel is still being played out in court, rulings are coming down both ways. I’ve read where legal experts state that using a disclaimer such as “in my opinion” might save your tail, others say you can’t hide behind it, or the other favorite “I’ve heard”.
Now if everybody really wants to shake it up…go down and talk to your insurance carrier. Most million dollar umbrellas will defend you against libel, slander and even assault claims. Think about that! eek! eek!
C2

[twistedpair]

C2:
I too agree there is always two sides to every story. But to expect a manufacturer to come on the board and DEFEND themselves? Some of them are still tackling fax machines, let alone cyberspace :D :rolleyes: :D
Seems like an unreasonable burden and expectation to me.
C2 They saw the thread somehow. What, they can only point and click, but can't type?
Pussies. :rolleyes: