PDA

View Full Version : The David Kay Report on Iraq WMD



Catmando
10-09-2003, 04:22 PM
This is an overview; www.slate.msn.com/id/2089471 (http://www.slate.msn.com/id/2089471)
This is the declassified report; www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/02/kay.report (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/02/kay.report)
This pretty much puts the kibosh on Bush. If you don't believe this report, there isn't much anybody can do to bring you into the real world.

mirvin
10-09-2003, 04:25 PM
here we go........ :o sleeping cry

Catmando
10-09-2003, 04:29 PM
Quick post mirvin. I guess you didn't bother to hit either site, just a knee-jerk reaction to my name and the thread title eh? :rolleyes:

Ziggy
10-09-2003, 04:30 PM
Catmando:
the real world. That's a great show on MTV. :D
Amazing how a little editing can change the look of any written word :p
[ October 09, 2003, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Ziggy ]

mirvin
10-09-2003, 04:36 PM
Actually yes, but I was reffering to the inevitable onslaught of insults soon to be headed your way.
Didn't mean imply anything other than I've seen people jump on you pretty hard lately.
:cool:

HalletDave
10-09-2003, 04:39 PM
Quick post mirvin. I guess you didn't bother to hit either site, just a knee-jerk reaction to my name and the thread title eh?
What do you expect CAT, everyone is hip to your shit. :p
Hallett (tired of CAT shit) Dave wink

BajaMike
10-09-2003, 04:55 PM
Catmando:
This is an overview; www.slate.msn.com/id/2089471 (http://www.slate.msn.com/id/2089471)
This is the declassified report; www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/02/kay.report (http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/02/kay.report)
This pretty much puts the kibosh on Bush. If you don't believe this report, there isn't much anybody can do to bring you into the real world. I did not read the complete report, but the overview by Fred Kaplan could hardly be considered an objective analysis of the report, it' very anti-Bush.
And the report is a result of the investigation following the war...Bush hardly had any where near that much info prior to the war. The report also states that Saddam wanted the world to think he had WMD.
You know the old saying about 20x20 hindsight.
argue
Mike

bigq
10-09-2003, 07:06 PM
Well I do believe that report and we will see after everything is said and done. I know you want to blame it all on Bush which is fine, but I just can't hold him accountable if intelligence is not fully correct.
Nonetheless it just don't matter to me about the WMD. Saddam needed to be removed anyway and now we are fighting the terrorist over there instead of them coming to us. You look at Iraq as the end all I look at as only the beginning of a war that needs to be won. One thast will be going on long after Bush is gone I'm afraid.

BiggusJimbus
10-09-2003, 08:41 PM
I quit exposing myself to the drivel on Slate long ago.
Their motto should be:
"Because we said so"

Catmando
10-09-2003, 09:48 PM
And now we're going to spend AT LEAST $87billion on Iraq's infrastructure. that means everything-roads, schools, hospitals, everything. Bush's cronies have lined up to slop at the trough-PUBLIC trough, since this is OUR money he's throwing away into the Halliburton et al coffers.
What would $87B do for OUR infrastructure which is crumbling as we speak? If we're gonna pay that kind of price, why not inprove our situation here at home?
This is a Liberal giveaway by Conservatives pure and simple.
[ October 09, 2003, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Catmando ]

Catmando
10-09-2003, 09:52 PM
mirvin:
Actually yes, but I was reffering to the inevitable onslaught of insults soon to be headed your way.
Didn't mean imply anything other than I've seen people jump on you pretty hard lately.
:cool: Sorry mirvin, guess I'm a little jumpy. Oh yes, I can't wait for the bashers to show up. :rolleyes: I'm a masochist eh? :D

MagicMtnDan
10-09-2003, 09:53 PM
Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-anti-Bush-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-anti-Republican-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-liberal-spin-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-anti-U S-BS-blah-blah-blah-blah-lefty-lies-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-anti-religion-blah-blah-blah-more-BS
Yeah, that about sums up Catmando's posts on this board

mirvin
10-10-2003, 08:54 AM
Sorry mirvin, guess I'm a little jumpy. Oh yes, I can't wait for the bashers to show up. I'm a masochist eh? I guess so...Kinda funny cuz I wasn't trying to get you fired up but that's what happened and at the same time on another thread I was trying to get a rise out of Hoss, but he wouldn't bite. I was expecting an "f" filled tyrade and all got was "yeah, maybe".
Funny how this stuff goes round..... :cool:

eliminatedsprinter
10-10-2003, 09:20 AM
Saddam wanted the world to think he had WMDs. You know what they say about being careful what you wish for.
All this hubub about WMDs does nothing to change my opinion of Bush. I have long hoped we would take out Saddam for many reasons, many of which have not been widely reported by the press. I'm glad he did it. I just wish the wimp who precceded him would have done it sooner. Like when he first kicked out the weapons inspectors or started shooting at our planes. He attacked his neighbor (one of our allies) we showed him mercy and let him stay in power after sighning him into a very restrictive treaty. Do you think Truman or Ike would have put up with this kind of crap and treaty violations from Hirohito?

OGShocker
10-10-2003, 09:23 AM
Hey CMD. How about a nice SHUT THE F%(K UP Sandwich for lunch?
OGS, sitting,shaking my head :rolleyes:

GlastronGuy
10-10-2003, 09:28 AM
MagicMtnDan:
Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-anti-Bush-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-anti-Republican-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-liberal-spin-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-anti-U S-BS-blah-blah-blah-blah-lefty-lies-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-anti-religion-blah-blah-blah-more-BS
Yeah, that about sums up Catmando's posts on this board http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/395torch.gif

Dave C
10-10-2003, 09:45 AM
Here is an important exerpt from that Kay report. You make up your own mind:
(what was this stuff for???? a "baby-milk factory")
"We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN. Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:
· A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.
· A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.
· Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.
· New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.
· Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS).
· A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit.
· Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the UN.
· Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km -- well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets through out the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.
· Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles --probably the No Dong -- 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment.
In addition to the discovery of extensive concealment efforts, we have been faced with a systematic sanitization of documentary and computer evidence in a wide range of offices, laboratories, and companies suspected of WMD work. The pattern of these efforts to erase evidence -- hard drives destroyed, specific files burned, equipment cleaned of all traces of use -- are ones of deliberate, rather than random, acts."

v-drive
10-10-2003, 09:52 AM
Glastronguy, You said it.
My only complaint is that more american companies are not getting contracts to do the rebuilding. It seems there are only a select few getting them. One in particular that was just set up in May of this year. Any thoughts on this?...V-drive

eliminatedsprinter
10-10-2003, 09:56 AM
Dave C:
Here is an important exerpt from that Kay report. You make up your own mind:
(what was this stuff for???? a "baby-milk factory")
"We have discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery of these deliberate concealment efforts have come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that ISG has discovered that should have been declared to the UN. Let me just give you a few examples of these concealment efforts, some of which I will elaborate on later:
· A clandestine network of laboratories and safehouses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research.
· A prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the UN.
· Reference strains of biological organisms concealed in a scientist's home, one of which can be used to produce biological weapons.
· New research on BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever (CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin were not declared to the UN.
· Documents and equipment, hidden in scientists' homes, that would have been useful in resuming uranium enrichment by centrifuge and electromagnetic isotope separation (EMIS).
· A line of UAVs not fully declared at an undeclared production facility and an admission that they had tested one of their declared UAVs out to a range of 500 km, 350 km beyond the permissible limit.
· Continuing covert capability to manufacture fuel propellant useful only for prohibited SCUD variant missiles, a capability that was maintained at least until the end of 2001 and that cooperating Iraqi scientists have said they were told to conceal from the UN.
· Plans and advanced design work for new long-range missiles with ranges up to at least 1000 km -- well beyond the 150 km range limit imposed by the UN. Missiles of a 1000 km range would have allowed Iraq to threaten targets through out the Middle East, including Ankara, Cairo, and Abu Dhabi.
· Clandestine attempts between late-1999 and 2002 to obtain from North Korea technology related to 1,300 km range ballistic missiles --probably the No Dong -- 300 km range anti-ship cruise missiles, and other prohibited military equipment.
In addition to the discovery of extensive concealment efforts, we have been faced with a systematic sanitization of documentary and computer evidence in a wide range of offices, laboratories, and companies suspected of WMD work. The pattern of these efforts to erase evidence -- hard drives destroyed, specific files burned, equipment cleaned of all traces of use -- are ones of deliberate, rather than random, acts." Hmmm doesn't exactly put the kibosh on Bush. wink
[ October 10, 2003, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

Dave C
10-10-2003, 10:04 AM
Without belaboring the details, you can summarize these findings as following:
Liberals blame Bush for not finding giant stacks of WMD in plain view for everyone to see. Instead the liberals want us to ignore the fact that we found a clandestine WMD program hidden from the UN. Also that Iraq had POSSESION of several WMD already as well as the technology to create many more and if left unchecked IRAQ could have created significant quantities of WMD to use on its neighbors.
Yes it appears that the sanctions were working to keep his WMD in check but they still continued on with his research and attempts to acquire WMD and possessed the technology to do so.
This is a political tactic, plain and simple.

Dave C
10-10-2003, 10:08 AM
dp
[ October 10, 2003, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Dave C ]

uclahater
10-10-2003, 10:13 AM
Catmando:
And now we're going to spend AT LEAST $87billion on Iraq's infrastructure. that means everything-roads, schools, hospitals, everything. Bush's cronies have lined up to slop at the trough-PUBLIC trough, since this is OUR money he's throwing away into the Halliburton et al coffers.
What would $87B do for OUR infrastructure which is crumbling as we speak? If we're gonna pay that kind of price, why not inprove our situation here at home?
This is a Liberal giveaway by Conservatives pure and simple. How much is it going to cost to rebuild the World Trade Center and all the families who lost someone.I think Iraq is money well spent to keep it from happening again. Cat your an asshole and how soon you forget devil

Dave C
10-10-2003, 10:21 AM
Why do liberal constantly badger Halliburton & Bechtel? Who else are they going to give the contracts to? A french company?
Yes its inevitable that those contracts will be awarded and American companies should get those contracts.
If someone in the Bush administration actually has financial ties to these corporations (which they don't) then they should divest themselves of it.
Complaining about some american corporation making any money off this deal is socialist nonsense. Would it be OK for the EU or Japanese companies to make it instead?

eliminatedsprinter
10-10-2003, 10:31 AM
Dave C
I agree.
I also think the mistake the Bush admin made was primarily a PR mistake. There were many other points they could have made to greater extent to justify this war than WMD.
In addition, I don't see how those who support the war let stupid lies like "first unilateral attack on another nation that didn't directly attack us in our nations history" slide by unchallenged. How much of a coalition went into Haiti the 3 times we invaded them and when did they ever attack us. And how about Grenada did we go in with a U.N. coalition there or did they attack us first? I have heard that totally false statement made so many times it makes me want to puke. Just last night Charles Rangle was parroting that lie...
[ October 10, 2003, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

Dave C
10-10-2003, 10:44 AM
Exactly, WMD wasn't the only reason. Once Democracy is established in IRAQ it will begin to have ripple affect into other countries, hopefully bringing an end to other totalitarian regimes in the region without us firing a shot at them.
In re WMD, put yourself in the dictators shoes. Chemical & biological weapons have plausible deniability.
give them to your friendly local neighborhood terrorist and let the terrorist attack the great satan instead. Then the US can't blame it on the dictator.
Is that what we want? WMD attacks on the US and our allies?
[ October 10, 2003, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Dave C ]

mirvin
10-10-2003, 11:08 AM
Hey, how come nobody's screaming about Afghanistan anymore?
Once we ge Iraq all situated then we can move on to Iran and complete "Tri-Fecta"!!!

Liqui-Fly
10-10-2003, 11:27 AM
Apparently someone did not see David Kay on television the weekend after the release of this report. He was somewhat suprised how much the report was downplayed. You see folks like Catmando really don't read the things they tell everyone else to read. I think people like Catmando think we are looking for intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles or something becuase that's what they see in the movies. People like Catmando really aren't very brite and really don't know much about these issues they speak of....especially WMD's. Screw facts...go with what you feel. From what I've seen in my life, losers typically fight the system so they can blame the system for being losers.
I vote for Syria...not Iran. Iran has enough of an internal movement to get the party started themselves. A few well placed shot there should seal the deal.
Hi my name is Catmando and my big block Ford runs on stupidity because stealing gas from Arab nations is wrong.
David

Seadog
10-10-2003, 12:01 PM
Cat hates Bush and anything Republican, so he only sees what he wants to see. He refuses to admit that everything that Bush says was identical to what Clinton and the rest of the under the table gang said for eight years The job was going to have to be done sometime and 9/11 made it more imperative. If it is Bush's fault that he inherited a lousy intel service caused by Clinton's destroying HR in favor of technology, than that is true. The public does not blame Bush because mistakes were made, only sleazy Democrats do.

Dave C
10-10-2003, 12:07 PM
Seadog, good point.
do we have to post all the quotes from Clinton & his gang and the rest of the demos saying that Iraq had WMD??????
After all Clinton had to destroy a couple of $20 tents with million $ cruise missles in 1998 just to make his point that he was serious about Saddam disarming. How soon we all forget.
So just to be fair if we are going to blame Bush for this then we have to blame Clinton, Albright, Dascle, Dean, etc. etc.
[ October 10, 2003, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Dave C ]

Dribble
10-10-2003, 12:19 PM
Saddam Hussein is no longer a power in the Middle East.
That means he can no longer payoff the families of homicide bombers. He can't invade anymore neighboring countries. He can't use chemical weapons on his own people. He can't torture, rape and murder anymore of his own citizens, or sons in law. He can't pillage the country's resources to increase his own wealth. And the Iraqi people dont have to look at his ugly face on every wall and every street corner anymore.
This is a good thing.
[ October 10, 2003, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Dribble ]

eliminatedsprinter
10-10-2003, 12:26 PM
One thing that is never mentioned is: That he can no longer use the fact that he controlled the "fertile cresent" to blackmail his neigbors, by threatening to cut off their main supplies of food and water.

Dave C
10-10-2003, 12:56 PM
He can no longer use the billions from his oil revenues to purchase weapons conventional and otherwise to invade his neighbors.

SoCalOffshore
10-10-2003, 01:11 PM
We don't have to find shit. The fact is the whole world including us and the UN suspected he had WMD. Sadam just had to prove to the world he did not and infact, that he destroyed all his WMD. Sadam, chose not to, accordingly we had to go in and find out for ourselves. So...it is inmaterial that they are not there now. The only material fact is that Sadam chose not to prove their destruction. I do still believe there are some burred in the middle of the deset somewhere.

SchellSchock
10-10-2003, 02:37 PM
Did you see today's report that the real trip with Saddam was to implement a "JIT" type system for WMD's. Wait until he needed them and then make quick with stuff that was stock piled. Article also pointed out that there is something like 182 weapons caches the size of a small state to search so who knows. Bottom line is the world has one less dickhead to contend with. Morons like Cat who can't see that should be given a free pas to live over there.

Dave C
10-10-2003, 02:52 PM
They can find 10 tons of "smoking gun" tommorrow and the liberals would still attack Bush over this whole thing.
People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear.
Its our job to point out that their "blind, deaf and dumb"

Catmando
10-10-2003, 03:05 PM
OGShocker:
Hey CMD. How about a nice SHUT THE F%(K UP Sandwich for lunch?
OGS, sitting,shaking my head :rolleyes: How about a nice KISS MY ASS sandwich for lunch? burningm
Shake it as hard as you want to, no brains in there anyways. :mad:

mirvin
10-10-2003, 03:14 PM
Here we go.... wink

Dribble
10-10-2003, 03:17 PM
Catmandos profile...
Hot Boat Forums
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home
» You are not logged in. Login or register Hot Boat Forums » Profile for Catmando
View Recent Posts | Send New Private Message
Profile for Catmando
Member Status: Triple Digit Club
Member Number: 2540
Registered: March 01, 2002
Posts: 455
Member Rated: (Votes: 60)
Email Address: e.cox@attbi.com
Location: Arlington, Tx.
Occupation: Internet marketer
Homepage: http://www.mylegacyforlife.net/lifesavers
Interests: Being the best left wing bleeding heart ignoramus that I can possibly be. Posting my idiotic diatribe on a forum that is loaded with right thinking hard working boat enthusiasts just to try and jack them up.
Boat Description(s): Carlson 24VPX raceboat
This user was last seen...
October 10, 2003 04:07 PM Forum: The Sandbar
Contact Us | Hot Boat Online | Privacy Statement
© 2003, Hot Boat
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

eliminatedsprinter
10-10-2003, 04:07 PM
I think this is starting to get a tad bit too personal. Sure Catmando stirs things up and yes I disagree with almost all of it. But he does make it more interesting. It's kind of boring talking politics when we all agree all the time. He comes in and stirs up some sh#& and we get to have some fun shooting it down. Why get personally angry. I for one, like to debate, what would be the point if nobody gave us any opposition. When he stirs things up I think we do a good enough job of burying him with the facts. Some of the other stuff (unless it's really funny and clearly ment as a joke) whould be best left off. Like I said I think it's fine to make fun of all of our positions, but the anger level (as well as the amount of stomach acid) seems to be a bit on the rise around here lately. :cool:
[ October 10, 2003, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

mirvin
10-10-2003, 04:13 PM
You ****-tard. :mad:
I will moidalate you!! burningm
Hey eliminated, is that what you were talking about. I agree. :D
Let's everybody take it easy, maybe go over and visit the "landing strip" thread, relax a little.
It's Friday night for **** sake!!! wink

BiggusJimbus
10-10-2003, 04:13 PM
Everybody was so quick to point out that the situation in Afghanistan was the fault of the US because Bin Laden was building schools and Hospitals and the US wasn't.
Now, the same people are screaming that we are spending the money in Iraq and not the US.
Which is it?

AzDon
10-10-2003, 06:02 PM
WE won the damn war and Iraq has oil, lots of it! So why should we fund Iraq's rebuild with US dollars???! The way I see it, Iraq's oil should pay for every dime of our costs for the war before ANY is used for their rebuild. We should permanently divest Iraq of any land with oil beneath it and control the pursestrings!

HOSS
10-10-2003, 06:23 PM
Why not rebuild Iraq and Afghanistan? We rebuilt Japan so they could monetarily kick our ass for the (so far) next 60 years. Makes since to me. If you don`t have it we`ll give it to ya. But if your a US taxpayer and you want something, about the only thing you`ll get is a fat salami stuck in your rectum.
I`m in debt so everyone else needs to be. :p

v-drive
10-11-2003, 05:51 AM
Dave c , I guess I should have spelled it out for you.. The contracts were awarded to one american company that was started in may of 03. Five other american companies were completely shut out and have been longstanding american companies. I don't think anyone here thinks any other countries except the few that participated should benifit in Iraqs rebuilding....v-drive

bigq
10-11-2003, 07:40 AM
AzDon:
WE won the damn war and Iraq has oil, lots of it! So why should we fund Iraq's rebuild with US dollars???! The way I see it, Iraq's oil should pay for every dime of our costs for the war before ANY is used for their rebuild. We should permanently divest Iraq of any land with oil beneath it and control the pursestrings! A lot of people hope this happens so they could say it was all for oil. I am sure, as we should use the revenue from the oil sales to repay some of the cost, but we are not going to take over the land. I thought I heard they have a few of the oil factories back online, but it is a slow process.

Dave C
10-11-2003, 09:54 AM
FYI, check the facts. Many of the contracts in question were awarded to Halliburton & Bechtel years ago through a competitive bidding process with the Pentagon.
I believe the issue was one recent classified contract for rebuilding. Plus I don't think we have all the facts yet because some of the information they were seeking was classified for now.
I think the jury is still out on this one. I think the claims of favortism are a little premature.

Seadog
10-11-2003, 02:01 PM
The problem with making Iraq pay for its own reconstruction is that first the oil must flow. To do this, you must get the country under control and that is done by make life comfortable to all there. It is not like digging up a cache of gold bullion, it is a long term project. I think that we should pay to rebuild, but have an escalating repayment over ten years.

1stepcloser
10-11-2003, 02:18 PM
Liqui-Fly:
Hi my name is Catmando and my big block Ford runs on stupidity.
David LMAO!! :D

Dr. Eagle
10-11-2003, 05:46 PM
Dumb ass! pig_flyi The only ones hurt by the sanctions were the people of Iraq. Saddam and his boys smuggled oil out through Syria and went on a palace building spree. READ MY LIPS...THE SANCTIONS DID NOT WORK!!! If you believe that dribble, might as well show your communist party card...just kidding! eek! :D :D :D :D

v-drive
10-12-2003, 05:54 AM
DaveC, Halliburton! isn't that the company Dick Chaney is connected with. Give me a break. You're complaining about people being liberal and you're so far the other way that you can't see. open your eyes....V-drive