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View Full Version : Does Arnold really stand a chance?



Boozer
09-29-2003, 08:51 AM
My father and I spent about 2 hours discussing Californias political crisis yesterday before I took him to the airport so he could head back to Mexifornia. He says if Arny doesnt win he's moving to Colorado. Pretty weird hearing that from my father considering that he was a die hard democrat before all this stuff happened out there.
Do you guys think McClintock will drop out to give Arny a chance or do you think he's going to be a selfish mo-fo and ride it out resulting in the win being given to Bustamante due to the Republican vote being split?
It'd be cool to have my father living out here but this a really crappy reason for him to have leave Cali. He loves it there and doesn't really want to leave but Bustamante isn't going to give him much choice. $1,000 a year to register your truck just isn't worth it to my father. I also hate to think what this hike in registration is going to do to those of you in the automotive industry.

Mandelon
09-29-2003, 08:58 AM
Latest poll has 63% in favor of recall and
Arnold at 30% to Bustamante at 23% McClintock is still at 12%. Hopefully Tom's supporters will help Arnold at the last minute so they don't help elect Bustamante instead.

MagicMtnDan
09-29-2003, 09:01 AM
Nice title to your thread Boozy.
Arnold not only "stands a chance" but he's going to win. In case you're not listening, ARNOLD IS GOING TO WIN!
There's far too much at steak here in California to let even a thread title go unchallenged.
* Arnold will win or California is effed.
* California cannot afford another day with Davis or Bustamante.
* Bustamante is another shade of Gray - he's been part of the Gray Davis problem (hell, he's been Lt. Governor!).
* McClintock (aka "McNader" as he's being called because of Ralph Nader's affect on Gore in the last presidential election) probably won't do the right thing and drop out BUT it won't matter...
* The latest polls show that Arnold is out front of everyone including Bustamante even with McClintock still in the race
VOTE for ARNOLD - we cannot afford another day of Gray or Bustamante. Even if you think McClintock is better, make your vote count; vote for Arnold.
McClintock should get smart and contribute to this party by withdrawing, working with Arnold and announcing that he's going to run for Senate. California has two of the worst senators especially Barbara Boxer!

summerlove
09-29-2003, 09:28 AM
Mandelon:
Latest poll has 63% in favor of recall and
Arnold at 30% to Bustamante at 23% McClintock is still at 12%. Hopefully Tom's supporters will help Arnold at the last minute so they don't help elect Bustamante instead. I think you're right - Tom's votes will shift to Arnold at the last minute because they know Tom can't win and Arnold is their only hope. He may pull this thing out after all...

Dr. Eagle
09-29-2003, 09:36 AM
Arnold is going to win. Latest poll numbers I have heard has the recall vote at 60% in favor, and I think 35% against with 5% undecided.
They also had Arnold at 40% Bustamente at 25% and McClintock at 18%, Commie Camejo at 5% and the true nut case Ariana at 2% (I really wish that that 7% would leave the state, Colorado maybe?). The balance is either throwing their votes away on one of the other candidates as a protest or are undecided.
Of course the only poll that matters is on Tuesday. If Arnold doesn't win, I plan to move somewhere else after living here all of my life. I am just tired of giving so much of my net worth to the Peoples Republic. But ARNOLD WILL WIN!
[ September 29, 2003, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Eagle ]

Dr. Eagle
09-29-2003, 09:40 AM
Incidentally, it has been great for the auto industry since it has been announced that the state was upping the car tax.
People have flocked to the car dealers to beat the tax hike, but as soon as the car tax takes effect...well...I sure wouldn't want to be a car salesman for the next few months after that. Sales are going to die for a while.
Of course our socialist democratic friends will probably trumpet their positive effect on commerce by raising the car tax for the time people were beating feet to the dealers to get ahead of the tax hike.
[ September 29, 2003, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Eagle ]

BUSTI
09-29-2003, 09:40 AM
Arnold can and will win! Anybody with reason thats heard Bustamante speak knows he is just more of the same gray davis bullshit. The only good thing the McClintock candidacy has done at this point , which is positive, it has kept Arnold very conservative in his campaigning. With the way the numbers are now, Tom Mc should get out of the race so the victory for Arnold can be a huge mandate for his agenda. He needs to win by a land slide putting the commie puke demos here in this state on notice that their shit wont stand any more in California

tsunami
09-29-2003, 10:18 AM
There are two things to remember here.
1. If Arnold does win and becomes the governor, everytime he leaves to do movies or whatever, Bustamante is governor. Remember he does not lose the Lt. Governor position for another three years.
2. Gray Davis can look at the poles on Oct 5th and resign moving Bustamante into the governorship immediately. That makes the recall invalid. It will be interesting.

schiada96
09-29-2003, 10:35 AM
tsunami:
There are two things to remember here.
1. If Arnold does win and becomes the governor, everytime he leaves to do movies or whatever, Bustamante is governor. Remember he does not lose the Lt. Governor position for another three years.
2. Gray Davis can look at the poles on Oct 5th and resign moving Bustamante into the governorship immediately. That makes the recall invalid. It will be interesting. wrong

Dr. Eagle
09-29-2003, 11:24 AM
God, I hope not....

BUSTI
09-29-2003, 11:24 AM
So wrong! There is nothing that can put Bustamante into the Govenorship other than winning the new election. If Davis resigns the election would still go on. The time for davis to have pulled that shit would have been before the recall petitions were certified by the secy of state.

MagicMtnDan
09-29-2003, 11:41 AM
tsunami:
There are two things to remember here.
1. If Arnold does win and becomes the governor, everytime he leaves to do movies or whatever, Bustamante is governor. Remember he does not lose the Lt. Governor position for another three years.
2. Gray Davis can look at the poles on Oct 5th and resign moving Bustamante into the governorship immediately. That makes the recall invalid. It will be interesting. I'm sure you meant well but please don't post stuff like this unless you're absolutely sure.
It's clear that Davis cannot avoid the recall election and there's nothing he can do to "crown" Bustamante as governor.
In addition, I wouldn't worry about Arnold leaving his post allowing Bustamante to have any impact on state operations. No governor in his right mind would allow a Lt. Governor to screw things up in his/her absence.

Dr. Eagle
09-29-2003, 12:02 PM
Well, Pete Wilson didn't let the fact that Cray Tafis (Lt. Governor Doofus at the time) was acting Gov. while he was out of town. There is only so much damage that can be done in a few days...I know...famous last words.
I am not worried about Bustamente as Lt. Gov., the worry is that Ariana shows up at Arnolds inauguration (if there is one) with explosives loaded in her Hybid car and takes out the Governator. I wouldn't put it past the woman!
Then we would be stuck with Mr. Tough Love...and we can all sell our boats to the people in Colorado, Arizona and Nevada to pay the tax bills. cry cry

EricU
09-29-2003, 12:22 PM
Why are so many people going to vote for Arnold?
I have not heard him say anything intelligent so far or even address how he is going to fix California. I haven’t heard anything from any of the main candidates.
When the recall was first announced and Arnold threw his hat in the ring I was for him. But when he failed to show up for the early debates, instead he would hold a press conference and spout out sound bites, I started doubting him. Then when he did show up to the debate, he sounded like a jackass, all of them sounded like jackasses!
I can’t even imagine how the rest of the country thinks of our political situation, not that I give a rat’s ass what the other states think.
I have been following the campaign and as the election gets closer, I really don’t know who to vote for. I own a small business; have two young school age children, hunt and fish, so there are some certain political issues that directly affect me.
Arnold hasn’t said anything besides sound bites, Bustamante wants to sell out our state to the Indians (they should be taxed like everyone else) and Davis has proven he is an idiot (I don’t think even the Cal Trans and the Prison Guard vote can save him now).
Anyway I was just wondering why so many people would vote for Arnold.
Eric.

Ziggy
09-29-2003, 12:24 PM
Boozer:
$1,000 a year to register your truck just isn't worth it to my father. I also hate to think what this hike in registration is going to do to those of you in the automotive industry. Tell me about it. I sell cars that will effectively have $2500+ yearly tag fees although the average cost for most of my type cars will be more in the range of $800-1200..
A suggestion from one of our Senators(Morrow) has a link refund request (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/adm/adm399.pdf) he posted. He suggests to ask for car tax refund at the same time you send your renewal with the higher fees, that way you are already in the system for refund when it does get overturned.
Arnold will win this, hand down.

Dr. Eagle
09-29-2003, 12:28 PM
I am voting for arnold for 3 reasons:
1. Leaders don't need to get into all of the nitty details of government. In fact if they do they will fail (Jimmy Carter). Their job is to lead and put good people in the right positions and keep those people accountable.
2. He is an outsider. He is not one of the recycled politicians that I keep seeing up here in Sacramento. They move from elected to appointed back to elected positions and never leave government.
3. He can win.

MagicMtnDan
09-29-2003, 12:54 PM
EricU:
Why are so many people going to vote for Arnold?
I have not heard him say anything intelligent so far or even address how he is going to fix California. I haven’t heard anything from any of the main candidates.
When the recall was first announced and Arnold threw his hat in the ring I was for him. But when he failed to show up for the early debates, instead he would hold a press conference and spout out sound bites, I started doubting him. Then when he did show up to the debate, he sounded like a jackass, all of them sounded like jackasses!
I can’t even imagine how the rest of the country thinks of our political situation, not that I give a rat’s ass what the other states think.
I have been following the campaign and as the election gets closer, I really don’t know who to vote for. I own a small business; have two young school age children, hunt and fish, so there are some certain political issues that directly affect me.
Arnold hasn’t said anything besides sound bites, Bustamante wants to sell out our state to the Indians (they should be taxed like everyone else) and Davis has proven he is an idiot (I don’t think even the Cal Trans and the Prison Guard vote can save him now).
Anyway I was just wondering why so many people would vote for Arnold.
Eric. Easy:
It's about elect-ability - Arnold's the only one who has a chance to fix this mess that's elect-able.
It's about hope - Arnold's the only glimmer of hope this state has
It's about cutting our losses - the others are losers and/or professional politicians who don't know what it's like to run a business in this state.
It's about not wasting your vote - Arnold is the only one who can make a difference and get elected. Any other vote will only help flush this state further down the drain.

summerlove
09-29-2003, 01:02 PM
EricU:
Bustamante wants to sell out our state to the Indians (they should be taxed like everyone else)I'm not certain, but I think that the indian tax issue is a Federal, not state issue. If I recall, the Federal Government has jurisdiction over issues concerning tribal rights. If this is the case, then the State of California has limited authority over taxing indian tribal ventures, including indian gaming casinos. Personally, I think indian ventures should collect and pay taxes accordingly.

Troubles No More
09-29-2003, 01:07 PM
It’s not who or what you vote for, It’s that you vote.
This is one of the few places on earth that we the people can make a choice on how we what our government to function.
These are reasons enough to get out and vote. But if you need added incentive, consider the fact that fewer and fewer people are taking the time to vote. As a result, those who do vote actually multiply the power of their votes. There’s a very real sense in which each person who doesn’t vote has "given" their vote to those few who take the time to go to the polls.
If we simply bemoan the direction our state are headed and give in to apathy and disillusionment, our fears and concerns will only become a self-fulfilling prophecy. But when we step into the voting booth, we take the future of our state and nation in our own hands.
There is too much at stake and there are too many concerned people for us not to stay engaged and vote.
So, instead of following the crowd and becoming apathetic and disillusioned, we must redouble our efforts. We must remember our families and children and what is at stake.
So, be sure to vote — and bring a friend!
I found this in a newspaper article, it still holds true today

Dave C
09-29-2003, 01:52 PM
I think its too close to tell. Those public polls are garbage because the error rate is too high.
In re Indian Gaming, I know the Feds manage Indian affairs but they need state permission to operate. Remember we had a ballot proposition a few years ago.
I thought they were supposed to pay some state taxes but I guess there must be a loophole.
Interesting.

Dave C
09-29-2003, 02:55 PM
This is kinda long (sorry) but interesting. All the "domestic partner" bills signed by Grey-out Davis in the last two years..
AB 2216, (Keeley). Intestate succession: domestic partners. Under the existing law of intestate succession, the surviving spouse is entitled to the decedent's separate property that is not effectively disposed of by will. This bill would extend this entitlement to a decedent's domestic partner. CHAPTERED
AB 2777, (Nation) County employees' retirement: death Benefits to a domestic partner. Any death benefits, optional retirement allowances, or survivor's allowances accorded to a spouse, may be accorded to a domestic partner in certain counties. CHAPTERED.
SB 1575, (Sher) Probate Exemptions. Existing law invalidates a donative transfer to the person who drafted the instrument except from where the transferor is related by blood or marriage to the transferee. This bill would except domestic partners as well. CHAPTERED.
SB 1661, (Kuehl) Disability compensation for family or domestic partner. This bill would establish a family temporary disability insurance program (through State Disability) to provide up to 6 weeks of wage replacement benefits to workers who take time off work to care for a seriously ill child, spouse, parent, domestic partner, or to bond with a new child.. CHAPTERED
2003
AB 17 (Kehoe) Domestic partnerships and State contracts. This bill would prohibit a state agency from entering into a contract for the acquisition of goods or services with a vendor or contractor who does not offer benefits to registered domestic partner employees equal to benefits offered to married employees. Passed Asm floor on 6-5-03 on a 42-32 on strict party-line vote. Passed Sen on a 22-15 vote on 9-12-03. ENROLLED AND SENT TO THE GOVERNOR
AB 205 (Goldberg) Domestic Partners. Extends all rights reserved for married couples to domestic partners. Passed Asm floor on 6-4-03 on 41-32 party-line vote. Passed Sen on. 23-14 vote on 8-28-03. Asm concurred in Sen Amendments on 41-33 vote on 9-3-03. CHAPTERED
SB 85 (Torlakson) Death benefits. Would allow all counties to afford death benefits, optional retirement allowances, or survivor's allowances accorded to a spouse, to give same benefit to a domestic partner. Passed Sen 4-7-03. Passed aSMon. 44-27 vote on 8-28-03. Sen concurred in Asm Amendments on 22-15 vote on 9-2-03. ENROLLED AND SENT TO THE GOVERNOR
.
AB 1082 (Laird) PERS health care benefits: domestic partners. Would authorize a contracting agency with PERS to provide retirement health care benefits to domestic partners. Passed Asm floor5-15-03. Passed Sen on 22-14 vote on 8-27-03. ENROLLED AND SENT TO THE GOVERNOR.
SB 71 (Kuehl) Education. Changes the Education Code to mandate that students in grades K-12 be provided with the knowledge and skills necessary to protect themselves from unintended pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases and to encourage students to develop healthy attitudes and values about adolescent growth and development, body image, gender roles, sexual orientation, romantic involvement, marriage, and family. Also allows anonymous, voluntary, and confidential evaluation tools to including tests, questionnaires, and surveys containing questions about the pupil's attitudes concerning or practices relating to sex. Reduces the parent notification requirements. Parents would have the right to opt out of the training, but the bottom line is that this type of ‘training’ should be relegated to home and family, not the education establishment. Passed Sen Floor on 23-13 party-line vote on 6-4-03. Passed Asm on 47-32 vote on 9-9-03. Sen concurred in Asm amendments on 24-14 vote on 9-11-03. ENROLLED AND SENT TO THE GOVERNOR.
AB 1250 (Laird) Teacher development. Would allow the staff development allowance to be used for training designed to improve intolerance and hatred prevention. Passed the Asm floor on a 53-2r vote on 6-2-03. Passed Sen on 22-14 vote on 8-25-03. CHAPTERED
AB 196 (Leno) Redefines the term ‘gender’ to include “perceived gender.” Allowing fines up to $150,000 against employers (religious businesses, Boy Scout councils would be effected) that refuse to hire individuals on the basis of gender as perceived from the “victim’s point of view,” which could include cross-dressers and transsexuals. Passed Asm floor on 42-34 vote on April 21st. Passed Sen floor on 7-24-03. CHAPTERED.
AB 458 (Chu) Foster parents. Would create new training requirements for foster care parents, including sensitivity training to homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle. Last year a similar bill would have forced foster care parents to support, and even promote, homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle. (Similar to AB 2651 last year.) Passed Asm floor 46-31 party-line vote on 5-12-03. Passed Sen floor on 23-11 vote on 7-24-03. Asm concurred in Sen Amendments on 48-22 vote on 8-21-03. CHAPTERED.

eliminatedsprinter
09-29-2003, 03:52 PM
Dr. Eagle:
I am voting for arnold for 3 reasons:
1. Leaders don't need to get into all of the nitty details of government. In fact if they do they will fail (Jimmy Carter). Their job is to lead and put good people in the right positions and keep those people accountable.
2. He is an outsider. He is not one of the recycled politicians that I keep seeing up here in Sacramento. They move from elected to appointed back to elected positions and never leave government.
3. He can win. I agree.
I would also add even if he can't turn things around. Just using his veto pen to put the brakes on some of the stupidity that this horrendous legislature keeps passing is better than the hidious future we face under Davis and or Busti. Someone has to stop this tidal wave of idiotic legislation that is being passed by these creeps.

summerlove
09-29-2003, 04:03 PM
Dave C:
"Domestic partners" do not only apply to gays. They also apply to seniors that are living together (as a couple) and choose not to marry so that they can continue to receive pension benefits. This allows that to continue.
Also, so what? Did you read everything you posted? Some of those laws are good, some ok. some not so ok, but the point is, as a heterosexual, we have the legal ability to marry, gays do not. Personally, no prob with domestic partner legislation.
I also don't know what adding this does except create a "piling on" effect....

Just Tool'n
09-29-2003, 07:22 PM
Vote yes on the recall!
Vote Republicans, because after all Gray Davis inherited a energy crises, but the he did inherit a 50 Billion dollar surplus at the same time!
So ask yourself how long would it take you to piss away 50 Bilion Dollars?
I know that I could not piss away that kind of money unless I was a Democrat.

Dr. Eagle
09-29-2003, 08:33 PM
He is a micromanager of the first order just like Jimmy Carter, our worst president since the 1920s. He put the state in the electricity business and wanted to BUY the electricity grid. WTF is the state doing wanting to get in the the electricity business? Hell they can't even build a decent friggin hiway.
Just like other Dems, Government fixes all...

Dr. Eagle
09-29-2003, 08:44 PM
The legislation coming out of this bunch downtown here is just mind boggling. They spend their time passing liberal BS like those laws you posted Dave C and a pile of others like that stupid ass Greenhouse gas law. burningm IT MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL.
Oh and I meant to quote ALGORE for that guy from Texas that was posting yesterday telling us that the republicans will raise our energy prices and then we'll be sorry we didn't elect a Democrat.
AlGORE said in one of his books (forgotten which one) "The internal combustion engine is a greater danger to the United States of America than any enemy we may face in the future".
Vote Democrat and just a matter of time before we are all in friggin rowboats.
Oh and sorry I didn't see any useful legislation in the list...but then maybe I am just a prick.
[ September 29, 2003, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Eagle ]

randy77zt
09-29-2003, 09:21 PM
maybe instead of passing new laws to make themselves look busy they should start at the front of the law books and see what laws can be removed.i hope arnold wins.the organized politicians dont like him because he has his own money and he doesnt need to play the favor return game.gray davis proved he is a poor commodities trader-he bought electricity high and sold low.another reason we need demos out-they take lots of money from the sierra club and other tree hugger groups.if you are into other outdoor motorsports like offroading you know the tree huggers are trying to take out 1 outdoor motorsport at a time.after they get done with pwc's and offroading boats will be next.use the land-just clean up your mess.

Dr. Eagle
09-29-2003, 10:37 PM
it'd be nice if they would pull all of the floaters off the law books, but that will never happen.

Sherpa
09-30-2003, 06:22 AM
new polls show Arnold at 40%, closest is
bustanewholeinthemexicoborder at 27%..
I'm voting for ahhhhhnold. so is my wife,
and we're filling out my MIL's abseentee ballot
for aaahhhhhhhhnold as well.
he'll make it.... we just need to make it happen.
there is one problem though, ahhhhnold is supposedly not pro-gun........ I don't like that
part, but you gotta pick the best of the bunch.
--Sherpa

spectratoad
09-30-2003, 08:57 AM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/307arnold_4_Gov.JPG