Information is Power!!!

[RiverTime69]

Since the season is getting ready to begin...
I thought this information could help many of us out, (especially those of us that like to do 75-80 with a trailer...).
There is a little known section of the California Vehicle Code 40502(b) that goes like this:
---------------------------------
Place to Appear
40502. The place specified in the notice to appear shall be any of the following:
(a) Before a magistrate within the county in which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible with reference to the place where the arrest is made.
(b) Upon demand of the person arrested, before a judge or other magistrate having jurisdiction of the offense at the county seat of the county in which the offense is alleged to have been committed. This subdivision applies only if the person arrested resides, or the person's principal place of employment is located, closer to the county seat than to the court or other magistrate nearest or most accessible to the place where the arrest is made.
(c) Before a person authorized to receive a deposit of bail.
-------------------------------------
The important part of that being (b). Basically it says this...If you get pulled over for whatever reason and you are actually cited. You can DEMAND (nicely, of course) that 40502(b) be added to the ticket. eek! THE OFFICER CANNOT REFUSE TO ADD IT. IT HAS TO BE ON THE TICKET AT THE TIME OF CITATION BEFORE YOU SIGN IT. IT CANNOT BE ADDED AFTER THE FACT. eek! It changes the venue to the county seat closest to your home or work. For those of you in SB County that means Downtown San Bernardino!!! If you get a ticket coming down the hill into Needles, you don't appear in lovely Needles, CA, but the much lovlier, SB County Courthouse.
"SO WHAT!?!" you say...Here's what, Mr. Officer comes to you, you don't go to him!!! He makes the 3.5 hour trip to court for a 8:30 appearance. He has to leave at 4:30 to make sure he's early. cry
But wait, there's more...
Now, due to personnel and budget concerns, almost no department is going to give an officer a full day's pay, plus driving, plus another officer to cover his absense, costing the department upwards of $1,000.00 for a $200.00 ticket...GET IT!!!
Now, here's how to do it:
When you get the ticket, there's an appearance date...2-3 days before your appearance(that's when you say, "NOT GUILTY") you get a continuance from the court that moves you out 4-8 weeks. When you do go for your appearance and say, "NOT GUILTY", you get a trial date (another 4-8 weeks). Then 2-3 days before you trial you get another continuance (4-8 weeks), then you go to trial and...NO OFFICER!!! You get a ticket in April and it's October before you even get to court! :p
Of course, this isn't scientific, but it has worked for me 100%. There will be an exception or two, but "CASE DISMISSED" is something I've heard everytime when I showed up and the officer didn't. :D
Do with it what you will.

[NashvilleBound]

I'm all good with trying that! Thanks. I wonder if its too late to use it in my Federal court case? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: cry
I guess 'information is power' but 'hind sight is always 20/20' :D
[ March 03, 2003, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: NashvilleBound ]

[RiverTime69]

True True.
Hopefully you won't need the info here, but just in case, I thought everyone deserves a fighting chance. At least until we California to fix that 70/55 thing.

[MJ19]

Nashville...you crack me up sometimes! :D
Another 100% sure way of not having to show up in court is to drive the speed limit...but gees who does that anymore?? :rolleyes: wink :p

[NOCTURNAL]

I TRIED THAT CHANGE OF VENUE THING WHEN I GOT PULLED OVER ONCE, AND WHEN I WAS IN TRAFFIC SCHOOL(FOR THE TICKET I RECEIVED) THEY SAID YOU CAN NOT USE THIS VEHICLE CODE TO GET OUT OF A TICKET. IT IS MERELY A CONVENIENCE THING. THE "NOT GUILTY" OPTION GOES OUT THE WINDOW. ANOTHER THING...A COP REFUSED ME THIS RIGHT WHEN I WAS IN A DIFFERENT COUNTY IN CENTRAL CALIFORNIA. MAYBE I'M JUST NOT DOING IT CORRECTLY.

[Back To Havasu]

Years ago I represented a close relative who had been arrested for reckless boating (among other things) in Copper Canyon. No one knew of this section, and I was sure the cops would not honor it. Sooo, my client and I appeared in the Needles court for arraignment, I made the change of venue demand pursuant to the section, and the judge didn't know about the section. After I quoted the section in open court, the prosecutor offered my client the equivalent of a non-moving violation equipment citation, which we pled nolo to, and all other charges were dropped. Just my $.02. wink :D wink

[NashvilleBound]

NOCTURNAL: WHY ARE YOU YELLING???
MJ19: lol.... Sorry, Just having a little discreet fun. It's all good :D

[JetBoatRich]

NashvilleBound:
NOCTURNAL: WHY ARE YOU YELLING???
MJ19: lol.... Sorry, Just having a little discreet fun. It's all good :D T.V. VOLUME IS TO LOUD, there we go. wink

[Kwicherbichen]

I have very similar info posted on my site as well as some other river route speed trap info.
Check out Kwicherbichen's Speed Traps (http://www.kwicherbichens.com/speed.htm)

[HighRoller]

I'm sorry,but I agree with MJ19.So you found a loophole that allows you to haul ass,get pulled over and beat the ticket.YOU broke the law but you don't wanna pay the consequences.You know,OJ got fancy lawyers so he wouldn't have to pay the piper for his crimes either!If you want to speed,fine.You get popped,stand up like a man and pay the price.What kind of message do we send to our kids and other people by hiding behind a statute to avoid a penalty?And before you go into the injustice of Cali's split speed limit,let me tell you this.I own a trucking company where I get paid by the mile for my work.I can cover 300 miles in any other state in the same time it takes to cover 200 in Cali.I lose a lot more time and money in Cali than anyone towing a boat but I still obey the speed limit most of the time right or wrong.I have driven at 75mph across I-40 from Needles to Barstow but if I got popped I would pay the ticket because I was wrong.Keep in mind two factors.First,insurance companies WILL raise your rates 20-40% for a major speeding ticket and secondly,what happens if you get stopped for 75 in a 55?15mph over the limit will get you a MAJOR ticket but the cop will usually reduce it to 69mph for the sake of expediency.IF you institute this statute,piss off the cop,and the cop actually shows up you're gonna get a misdemeanor ticket which will cost you 1200-1500 dollars and jack up your insurance by about 1000 dollars a year!!!Like MJ19 says,why not just drive a reasonable speed?You save tires,engine,insurance and fuel and most importantly your driving record and money for insurance!!!I wouldn't get to the river as fast as most people but I've had only one moving violation in 10 years in over 800,000 miles of driving.How much money do you think I've saved over those who try to"beat"a ticket????

[Brendella]

I was driving from moreno valley to L.A. every weekend to visit my now wife for a couple years and when I recieved those 2:00 a.m. tickets going down the 60 freeway I allways request cvc 40502{b}
It does help to be nice, out of four times only one officer refused; claimed there was no such thing.he wouldn't let me show him the code in my penal code book that I had with me.(studied adm. justice)he was the only one that challenge after two permitted extensions. still beat him in court because he told the judge he followed me for 5 miles while I was speeding, starting from the 101,but the ticket was sited by the 57/60 freeway.
I just laugh after the judge just ask him to learn to calculate distance better. never paid.
sorry for long post but the cvc works for me!

[Elsinore Cop]

I have written thousands of tickets here in California. My paycheck was always fatter when people wanted to go to court. :D The department has no choice but to pay the O.T. because the officer is on subpoena from the court.

[RiverTime69]

HighRoller,
Although I am not a professional driver and don't put on the miles that you do, I do drive about 40K-50K miles a year. In the past 10 years I have been pulled over 5 or 6 times, received a ticket in every instance, used the CVC, and I won in every case. My driving record is perfect and my insurance hasn't been affected and it cost me no $$.
Your point is noted and appreciated. I am merely offering information that may level the playing field for those who wish to exercise their rights. If it's a bad thing, let them close the loophole...Until then, the Mountain can come to ME!
Elsinore Cop,
I understand the court has subpoenaed the officer and require appearance, but I doubt the duty officer would allow you to travel to Fresno for a ticket you issued in Lake Elsinore for 11 MPH over the limit...I could be wrong.
By the by...Just as it is illegal for me to speed or any other violation, it is equally illegal for the officer to refuse to add the section! If says he's unaware of any such section, politely tell him you'll wait while he looks it up or checks it with the duty officer. If he still refuses, remind him that the language under the section requires it be added at your request and that it's not an option. If he still refuses, then ask for his complete name, badge #, duty officer's name and what station he's from and the address and phone # to that station. He/She cannot refuse you that information, make note of it and report the incident the following business day to the station. Say, "Thank you", sign and accept the ticket and be on your way. ABOVE ALL...BE NICE!! Trust me, if you do all these things it will go on and affect his permanent performance record.
***Case in point, I was pulled over last night returning from Santa Monica at about 1:30am. I made a lane change with a signal on the 10 just west of La Cienega, got pulled over by CHP. License, insurance, blah blah blah. He said he was gonna cite me for an unsafe lane change and no front plate. I said I understood and asked him to add 40502(b) because I didn't live in the area. He told me to hold on, went back to his unit came back about 5 minutes later, gave me my license and insurance back and said he was going to let me go with a warning and to be more careful next time. I said thank you and that I hoped he would be able to stay out of the rain for the rest of his shift and that was that. :p I wasn't smug or rude and I was home 45 minutes later and ticket FREE!***

[hwyman]

Rivertimes69,
the majority of the information you have posted is true. Example:If you are cited in Needles and you request the county seat (San Bernardino), then yes the officer has to honor your request for the county seat.
As far as actually writing the section 40502(b)VC in the body of the cite along with the other violation, that is not true. The officer only has to change the court location on the citation.
As far as you living in Alta Loma and getting in San Bernardino, that also would be true since you live in San Bernardino County, county being the operative word. The section is if your residence or place of employment is closer to the county seat and not the court of jurisdiction.
As far as the example you posted about being cited in Fresno and you tell the Officer he/she has to issue the court for the county you live or work in, that would be incorrect. The alleged violation is adjudicated in the county where the alleged offense occured, ie, court of jurisdiction or the county seat.
I would have to say you have a lot of luck going for you if you keep getting out of citations. You decided the risk vs. gain is complimentary to you in this type of situation. Well, as life would have it, it probably won't always be the case. :D Please don't think i'm being down on you, i am just explaining the facts.
As highroller had mentioned earlier about the citation for speeding for towing a trailer in Ca., he is right. 70 mph and above is listed as a serious traffic offense and is a misdemeanor offense. Serious cash and the second offense can result in the loss of your license for awhile.
Can you possibly talk the officer down to a lower speed? sure, anything is possible, after all the officer is human, and in your case, you have been able to get out of several citations according to what you have written.
Should the speed limit be changed when towing a trailer in Ca.? In some areas it wouldn't be a bad idea. However on roads like SR-177 (Rice Road) it shouldn't change. Too many wrecks and people being hurt and killed.
in response to an officer not traveling from Needles to San Bernardino for a traffic cite, the officer would have to go. Some officers would probably like it since it would definitely be overtime just for the travel.
As far as trying to use the Vehicle Code to get out of a citation, well, everyone has their opinions. Does it happen, sure. Not for the fact the violation did not occur, just maybe at that particular time some techincal issue got called into play. \
When you said the officer stopped you last night in the rain and let you go with a warning, there again you got lucky. The issue about 40502(b) had nothing to do with it. More likely than not,
the officer had a call to respond to. Instead of making the other people probably involved in a collision wait while he wrote you a ticket, he let you go and he answered his call. If you were issued a cite at that location, the court would have been 1945 S. Hill St. in LA.(The county seat) :D Again, it cannot be issued out of county, resident or not. Just information, not an arguement. argue wink

[RiverTime69]

Thank you very much for the clarification. I didn't realize it was within the county the cite was issued. Now that's good information.

[TrojanDan]

OK, I'm confused now. If I get stopped in Needles, can I use 40502 (b) to have it transfered to LA County (where I live) or does it just get sent to another court within SB County.
:confused:

[RiverTime69]

According to HWYMAN it would be sent to the Downtown SB Courthouse. If that is true, it is still closer to Alhambra than the Needles court and I still contend odds are heavy in your favor the cop won't show. Of course, that is NOT a challenge to any officer's that may frequent the boards... :)

[uvindex]

Mr RiverTime69 is correcto. The thing originally posted by RiverTime69 says, "...county seat of the county in which the offense is alleged to have been committed." SO, you get your choice of the default location that the officer writes on the ticket OR the county seat of the county where the offense happened -- it's not going to be in a different county either way. The reason it works well for the Needles/SB example is that San Bernardino county is such a BIGASS county. :) For small counties (or a county in Northern California, for example,) invoking the 40502(b) thing isn't going to buy you much.
Happy boating,
CS