PDA

View Full Version : Real Estate question: Help



THOR
05-30-2003, 08:08 AM
I am running into a problem in trying to buy a house in Huntington Beach that was listed for 477K. There were two offers for 477k and we offered 482k. The agent made a counter offer to all 3 buyers for 487k. Interestingly, the house was not listed in the MLS. All 3 buyers agreed to the counter, and this morning she put the house on the MLS. I am pretty pissed now.
Question: Is there any legal issues she is breaking? If we agree, as buyers, to all the conditions is this not a binding contract?
Thanks for the help in advance

al cole'holic
05-30-2003, 08:26 AM
Unfortunately, the seller has the right to accept any of the three offers of which they choose. One offer may have certain contingencies they prefer or not such as length of escrow or money down etc...ethically the buyer should have countered your offer first in line but in this market you will find agents accepting/countering multiple offers until they hit the sweetest one.

uvindex
05-30-2003, 08:26 AM
You mean the SELLER made counters (through the agent) to all three buyers, right?
DISCLAIMER: I have no real estate training.
I think in the case you describe, the sellers get to choose the buyer. Typically it's the one that they think is the strongest buyer, i.e., largest down, best credit, highest income, whatever. If you read the contract, it should be in there somewhere.
(I don't know what's up with putting it on MLS after the fact.)
Hope this helps -- again, I'm just some guy, not a real estate professional. :)
Good luck.

al cole'holic
05-30-2003, 08:33 AM
...not putting the listing on the MLS means the agent keeps it as a "pocket listing", where they hope to find a buyer on their own knowing that it will sell quick in hopes that they will bring the buyer themselves making the $ale and the purchase $$$, 5-6% comish to one agent instead of giving 2.5% to another agent who brings a buyer in.

GlastronGuy
05-30-2003, 08:41 AM
I am not sure but I think it depends on asking price. If all your offers were below asking price thay have the right to counter. If you offered asking price, it would seem the house is yours.
But do you want it? It seems that 482k only buys a little shack these days.

spectratoad
05-30-2003, 08:42 AM
Sounds like the agent and seller saw the three offers at a higher price and may be trying to start a bidding war. They figure they got these offers without it being on MLS and they are getting greedy and thinking, "Hey if we put it on MLS we can probably do even better." I would think that even just a matter of principle and integrity the agent and seller would honor the three offers or at least go back to you three with a counter.
It is ultimately up to the seller who they want to sell to though.

THOR
05-30-2003, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the help so far.
It is a shack in Huntington, but a very good priced shack. If it hit the MLS it will go for about 510K easy. She has until tomorrow to let us 'buyer' know about the status of the counters.
I hate sneaky ass people like this.

572Daytona
05-30-2003, 11:02 AM
If you presented an offer of full purchase price without any contingencies for financing, inspections, etc, you may be able to sue for the seller for specific performance. Chances are your contract included some contingencies therefore the seller can reject that offer. You would need help from a lawyer and not a real estate agent if you decide to pursue that avenue.
As for the agent not having the house listed in MLS, you could check with their broker and see if the broker has a policy of requiring all listings to be in MLS, in which case you could file a complaint to the broker against the agent. It won't get you the house though. In Georgia where I'm licensed MLS requires all brokers who are members to place all their listings in MLS otherwise they get fined.

BIGTYME
05-30-2003, 11:22 AM
I'm a realtor in So Cal.
The seller has done nothing wrong. In my MLS you HAVE to put a property in the mls. The listing agent must have had an extension on putting it in the MLS. It is up to the seller when a property goes into the MLS.Like everybody else said. The seller can choose whichever offer they want.

GlastronGuy
05-30-2003, 11:24 AM
572Daytona:
If you presented an offer of full purchase price without any contingencies for financing, inspections, etc, you may be able to sue for the seller for specific performance. That's what I said. Just not as eloquently. :)

572Daytona
05-30-2003, 11:34 AM
Thor just as a recommendation you if you haven't done it already you may want to get pre-approved by a lender for a house of that amount. Showing a letter to the seller that you are able to get financing may help to decide it in your favor.

THOR
05-30-2003, 12:35 PM
Pre-approval page was submitted with the signed offer. I am approved for well over the amount of the house.
I think a need some attractive 'legal' language to scare her with.
thanks again

mickeyfinn
05-30-2003, 12:44 PM
How about this language:
LOOK BITCH!!!!
I OFFERED EVERY F*$&NG DIME YOU ASKED. I AM GOING TO SUE YOUR FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT AND TAKE POSESSION OF YOUR SHACK FOR NOTHING BUT ATTORNEYS FEES!!!!!!

Hallett19
05-30-2003, 03:19 PM
I'm pretty sure you can get in trouble for not listing a property in the MLS after taking the listing. I know when we get our listings, we have a certain time frame to upload them. You can get busted for doing stuff like this. Its a means of holding it for an investor to flip and offer her a kick back (typical scenario) or waiting to find someone to buy so she can double dip the prop. If you really want the place, get a real estate attorney involved and they might find a way to get it by her breaking a rule, you can be entitled that that purchase. Might be worth it if th place is really worth it. Or you can just hire me and I will get my people on it and get that place for you :cool:
what were your terms ? ex : contigent on sale of your home, long escrow, low down payment, etc. etc ?
[ May 30, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Hallett19 ]

BIGTYME
05-31-2003, 08:10 AM
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PUT A LISTING IN THE MLS RIGHT AWAY. If the seller would like to keep the listing out of the MLS for a certain period of time thats o.k. All the seller has to do is sign a form stating when they would like it to be out in the MLS.
All this drama! Welcome to real estate!!!

Sun burners
05-31-2003, 11:52 AM
mickeyfinn:
How about this language:
LOOK BITCH!!!!
I OFFERED EVERY F*$&NG DIME YOU ASKED. I AM GOING TO SUE YOUR FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT AND TAKE POSESSION OF YOUR SHACK FOR NOTHING BUT ATTORNEYS FEES!!!!!! And if I see you again I will be upset not calm like I am now!

Mr.Havasu
05-31-2003, 02:26 PM
I'm also a real Estate Broker in Calif. & Arizona.
I agree with what Bigtyme stated earlier. I recently worked with one of the top producing realtors in orange county and he would have his clients sign an authorization to exclude the listing from the mls for a period of time in order to do repairs on the home. In the meantime he would show it and usually sell it himself.
You can not sue for specific performance because you do not have a contract with the seller yet. You can only sue for that if they sign a contract with you and back out of escrow later.
Finally in a hot market it's normal to do a multiple counter offers and wait to see which one is the best one to accept. Meanwhile even more offers can come in to consider, all the seller needs to do(Or their agent) is check the box on the counter offer stating that this is a multiple counter offer.
Sorry this doesn't help you to secure the home, but the agent isn't doing anything wrong. Remember he is being paid by the seller to represent the seller and look after the sellers best interest. If you were selling the home, I'm sure you would want to get fair market price for it as well. I know it sucks to find a home that is a good deal and be left feeling like you got screwed out of it, but there isn't anything you can do about it legally. Hang in there, If your credit and offer is strong you may still get the home.
Good luck!

572Daytona
05-31-2003, 03:41 PM
Thanks for clearing this up, warlock. You are correct about the specific performance, there is no contract between the seller and buyer(s) at this point. I was thinking more of the situation where a broker could sue for commission if the seller had signed a listing agreement at a specified price and refused to sell to a buyer that was willing and able to buy it at that price.

THOR
05-31-2003, 03:55 PM
Hallett19:
I'm pretty sure you can get in trouble for not listing a property in the MLS after taking the listing. I know when we get our listings, we have a certain time frame to upload them. You can get busted for doing stuff like this. Its a means of holding it for an investor to flip and offer her a kick back (typical scenario) or waiting to find someone to buy so she can double dip the prop. If you really want the place, get a real estate attorney involved and they might find a way to get it by her breaking a rule, you can be entitled that that purchase. Might be worth it if th place is really worth it. Or you can just hire me and I will get my people on it and get that place for you :cool:
what were your terms ? ex : contigent on sale of your home, long escrow, low down payment, etc. etc ? No special terms at all. I went in completely non-contingent and with an above price offer.

mike37
06-01-2003, 06:33 AM
THOR:
I am running into a problem in trying to buy a house in Huntington Beach that was listed for 477K. There were two offers for 477k and we offered 482k. The agent made a counter offer to all 3 buyers for 487k. Interestingly, the house was not listed in the MLS. All 3 buyers agreed to the counter, and this morning she put the house on the MLS. I am pretty pissed now.
Question: Is there any legal issues she is breaking? If we agree, as buyers, to all the conditions is this not a binding contract?
Thanks for the help in advance Contact the bord of realty
you oferd over asking price with no conditions
its yours
they oferd it at that price the back out thats at least falls advertizing just my .02
Contact the bord of realty
Contact the bord of realty
Contact the bord of realty

Charley
06-01-2003, 08:05 AM
Thor...no advice here just wanted to say Good luck to you!.... I'm thinking of moving my business as we speak (leaving in 1 hour to go look at 10+ properties) I just can't believe how expensive shit is these days....then again the stuff I own is worth alot more too wink
anyways good luck man :D

BIGTYME
06-01-2003, 12:18 PM
Mike 37,
There is no reason to contact the local board of realtors. Just because you OFFER full price with no contingencies doesnt mean the seller has to accept if there are other offers. There could have been 1 offer for 110,000 and another for 1 million and the seller can choose whichever they want. Its just that an offer.
If you offer to help a stranded person on the side of the road and they say NO are you gonna call the cops?
Same with real estate if you make an offer and they say no are you gonna call the board.
just my .02

Essex502
06-02-2003, 07:00 AM
It seems to be the practice of some realtors in a hot market like we know have in SoCal. The L.A. Times, a while back, had an article that talked about the practice of purposely underpricing the property to stimulate a "feeding frenzy" and a bidding war. Seems a little disingenuous if nothing else.
Good luck Thor!

totenhosen
06-02-2003, 02:03 PM
Contact the bord of realty
you oferd over asking price with no conditions
its yours
they oferd it at that price the back out thats at least falls advertizing just my .02
Contact the bord of realty
[/QB]WRONG WRONG WRONG! You could have an asking price of $250k on a house and someone offers you $1MM. You still don't have to sell it to them. Their is a phrase you guys need to learn called "Offer and acceptance"

Jetboatguru
06-02-2003, 08:57 PM
Thor, this is "MrsJetBoatGuru" and I am a licensed attorney in California. I am not offering you legal advice, but I would suggest that if you are really interested in the house, you should consult an attorney that practices real estate law. Many attorneys will do a free consultation and it may be worth checking out your options. The answer will largely depend on the wording in your offer and, even more so, the wording in their counteroffer. Hope it works out for you! :) :)

CJ
06-03-2003, 10:06 AM
Hey Thor! Sorry to hear of the problems. Jason may have mentioned that my wife is an Orange County Realtor. Whether you choose to use her or not, please give her a call. She has access to real estate attorneys to bounce all of your questions off, that is if she cannot answer them herself.
Honestly, biasedly, and unbiasedly, talk to her, you'll hire her. I wish I had half the talent and character she has.
Call me at (714) 283-8670 or Gilda at (714) 612-4702.

THOR
06-03-2003, 11:13 AM
CJ,
Jason did tell me and I appreciate the kind offer. Fortunately, I called the manager of the real estate branch here in Huntington Beach and chewed his ass telling him how unethical their practices were and how strong karma is. He could give a shit less, so then I explained if he did not take a hand in this and be a stand up guy that his name would go on the legal papers as well, forcing him to retain his own laywer since he could not use the 'in house' counsel for the company.
Funny thing we now have the house and have several offers on ours in Fountain Valley. I dont know if my calls did anything, but I would like to think they did.
Thanks for all the help from everyone.
THOR

CJ
06-03-2003, 04:07 PM
Great that it is working out with you, however, you are still dealing with the unethical brokerage. Stay on this and read everything carefully. Make sure if they use "their" escrow that you check every fee.
Happy it is working out thus far. Always call us if you have any questions. Great luck!!!

THOR
06-03-2003, 08:02 PM
Thanks for the offer CJ, I appreciate that.
BTW, we are using our escrow company. Why do people have to try to screw with you all the time.

Essex502
06-04-2003, 02:32 PM
Good to hear all came out well!