ARP install

[Schiada76]

On head stud installation does the beveled relief on the washer go against the nut or the head?
I asked ARP before and can't remember what they recommended.
Also do you just install the studs hand tight?

[steelcomp]

On head stud installation does the beveled relief on the washer go against the nut or the head?
I asked ARP before and can't remember what they recommended.
Also do you just install the studs hand tight?
The beveled relief is there for using the washer on a bolt, where the bevel would go against the head of the bolt. For studs, it dosen't matter. Hand tight is all that's necessary, and make sure you use thread sealant for any holes that are open to water jackets. Also, if you want the full torque value, put an old head gasket on the motor and tighten / loosen-cycle the nuts at least 5 times with the ARP lube. The surfaces of the nut and washer will "mate", and there will be less friction to overcome with torque, giving more accurae readings. It takes a little while, but there's considerably more clamping force when done right.

[Schiada76]

:D :D
Everyone I talk to (inc ARP) has different advice on the washer chamfer.
The guy that did the short block told me the opposite. Good thing they don't have chamfered washers with their stud kits anymore. I didn't look before I asked.
I know ARP used to recomend five cycles on the torque sequence but now they recommend three.
I did the torque cycle with the new gaskets, could that cause a problem????
Thanks for the reply

[Infomaniac]

I always install the bevel up. And always install the nut where you can read ARP. With the washer bevel up the flat side is down against the part and the bevel would be against the bolt if applicable.
Not only that, I have a specific "routine" that I use when assembling an engine and do not deviate from that. EVER
Torque cycles are torque cycles regardless of gasket or not. It is basically the stretch of the fastener. IMHO

[Schiada76]

I did make sure the ARP stamp was up.
Info, Why don't you use moly lube on roller rockers?

[Infomaniac]

I did make sure the ARP stamp was up.
Info, Why don't you use moly lube on roller rockers?
Where on roller rockers?
I soak them in solvent to get the preservative out. Then soak them in oil

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I install mine like fiat does;)
Oh and I soak my rockers in coorslight:D

[GofastRacer]

The beveled relief is there for using the washer on a bolt, where the bevel would go against the head of the bolt. For studs, it dosen't matter. Hand tight is all that's necessary, and make sure you use thread sealant for any holes that are open to water jackets. Also, if you want the full torque value, put an old head gasket on the motor and tighten / loosen-cycle the nuts at least 5 times with the ARP lube. The surfaces of the nut and washer will "mate", and there will be less friction to overcome with torque, giving more accurae readings. It takes a little while, but there's considerably more clamping force when done right.
Not trying to be a smartass here but the bevel on the washer is not because it's for use on bolts, the bevel is there because they are stamped and not flat ground washers, and you always put the flat side down weather it's bolts or studs!.. :D

[GofastRacer]

I did make sure the ARP stamp was up.
Info, Why don't you use moly lube on roller rockers?
Like Info said, also don't put moly on the pushrod tips it plugs up the hole in the pushrod and takes too long for oil to get up to the top!..

[steelcomp]

Beveled washers, if we're talking about the same thing where the bevel is on the ID, (typically 45* and very obvious) are made for close tolerance, high strength bolts. Rod bolts are a good example. The bevel is there so as not to let the edge of the washer dig into the head-to-shank fillet radius of the bolt, and should ALWAYS go toward the head of the bolt. This is a critical area in the strength of the bolt, where the bolt head, (as in AN bolts) has a true bearing surface, and the radius is usually cold formed, and relatively large. A regular washer, or the proper washer upside down, would cut into this radius causing a sterss riser, and compromising the bolt.
Beveled washers aren't necessary on a stud with a nut, since there's no fillet radius to worry about.
The high-strength washers supplied with the stud kits are supposed to be parallel ground and hardened, or equivalent to, and it shouldn'e matter which side is up, but... if you look closely, the outside (and inside) edges definately have a taper (not a bevel), since these washers are stamped. This makes one side of the washer a little larger in dia. than the other side, and I always like to put the larger dia. against the part, and let the nut bear against the smaller dia. It's minimal, but I feel you're getting just that much more load distribution out of the washer, and the smaller dia. is still larger than the base of the nut, so that's not an issue. It's just a small detail, but none the less.
You can torque anad re-torque new head gaskets, but I like to do all this break-in in the mock-up mode, and try and save the new gaskets for final assy. 5 times, three times, I don't know. I go 5, just because that's what I was tought.
I always put moly on new parts that are going to be under high pressure and prone to galling like, and especially push rod tips. You'd have to pack the pushrod with moly to cause a problem with oil not getting through. This would be, IMO, sloppy assy. work, as nothing more than a film thickness is necessary. It's also a waste of moly, and it only ends up in the filter. A little acid brush, and just a dab in the right places is all that's necessary. Once the parts have run, then they can be re-assembled with assy lube, but I still like to put moly on push rod tips. That first few cranks before it starts are killers, even after priming the oil system. Moly on any fastener that gets torqued. Threads, under the head, and both sides of the washer. Again, just a film thickness is all that's necessary.

[steelcomp]

Like Info said, also don't put moly on the pushrod tips it plugs up the hole in the pushrod and takes too long for oil to get up to the top!..
I've never started a motor without priming first, and seeing oil come out of every rocker. Kind of a pain, but IMO, the only way you know there's oil there. I'd hate to gall a pushrod or rocker/ lifter socket, especially with roller spring pressures because of not using moly.

[Beer-30]

I've never started a motor without priming first, and seeing oil come out of every rocker. Kind of a pain, but IMO, the only way you know there's oil there. I'd hate to gall a pushrod or rocker/ lifter socket, especially with roller spring pressures because of not using moly.
That's a good point. When I was a kid I built several motors that I fired without the valve covers on, for final adjustment and all. I commonly saw a few of the rockers not get oil for quite a while. Didn't think much about it at the time, but would never do something like that now. Live and learn.
Also, I am a firm believer in electric pump pre-oilers. For boats and planes, I think they are a must. Both sit for generally a month at a time, commonly. It sure is nice to hold a momentary switch and watch the oil pressure hit 50-60 lbs before touching the starter. I don't know why any $50K motor wouldn't come from the builder without one. Even a $2K motor should have one! IMHO.

[GofastRacer]

Beveled washers, if we're talking about the same thing where the bevel is on the ID, (typically 45* and very obvious) are made for close tolerance, high strength bolts. Rod bolts are a good example. The bevel is there so as not to let the edge of the washer dig into the head-to-shank fillet radius of the bolt, and should ALWAYS go toward the head of the bolt. This is a critical area in the strength of the bolt, where the bolt head, (as in AN bolts) has a true bearing surface, and the radius is usually cold formed, and relatively large. A regular washer, or the proper washer upside down, would cut into this radius causing a sterss riser, and compromising the bolt.
Beveled washers aren't necessary on a stud with a nut, since there's no fillet radius to worry about.
The high-strength washers supplied with the stud kits are supposed to be parallel ground and hardened, or equivalent to, and it shouldn'e matter which side is up, but... if you look closely, the outside (and inside) edges definately have a taper (not a bevel), since these washers are stamped. This makes one side of the washer a little larger in dia. than the other side, and I always like to put the larger dia. against the part, and let the nut bear against the smaller dia. It's minimal, but I feel you're getting just that much more load distribution out of the washer, and the smaller dia. is still larger than the base of the nut, so that's not an issue. It's just a small detail, but none the less.
You can torque anad re-torque new head gaskets, but I like to do all this break-in in the mock-up mode, and try and save the new gaskets for final assy. 5 times, three times, I don't know. I go 5, just because that's what I was tought.
I always put moly on new parts that are going to be under high pressure and prone to galling like, and especially push rod tips. You'd have to pack the pushrod with moly to cause a problem with oil not getting through. This would be, IMO, sloppy assy. work, as nothing more than a film thickness is necessary. It's also a waste of moly, and it only ends up in the filter. A little acid brush, and just a dab in the right places is all that's necessary. Once the parts have run, then they can be re-assembled with assy lube, but I still like to put moly on push rod tips. That first few cranks before it starts are killers, even after priming the oil system. Moly on any fastener that gets torqued. Threads, under the head, and both sides of the washer. Again, just a film thickness is all that's necessary.
Ok i know what you're talking about, I was thinking of the OD on stamped washers my bad!.. Yes a film of moly is all that's ever needed but I've seen guys dip the pushrod ends in moly and then wonder why they can't get oil to pour out of the rockers while priming the motor, I woudn't dream of starting a new motor before I see oil flowing out of all the rockers, and I also make sure everything is right on before I fire it, I want it to fire on the first revolution no cranking!....

[GofastRacer]

I've never started a motor without priming first, and seeing oil come out of every rocker. Kind of a pain, but IMO, the only way you know there's oil there. I'd hate to gall a pushrod or rocker/ lifter socket, especially with roller spring pressures because of not using moly.
I found that if you rotate the motor by hand a 1/4 turn or so every few seconds it takes less time for oil to start pouring out of the rockers!..

[steelcomp]

Ok i know what you're talking about, I was thinking of the OD on stamped washers my bad!.. Yes a film of moly is all that's ever needed but I've seen guys dip the pushrod ends in moly and then wonder why they can't get oil to pour out of the rockers while priming the motor, I woudn't dream of starting a new motor before I see oil flowing out of all the rockers, and I also make sure everything is right on before I fire it, I want it to fire on the first revolution no cranking!....Art...I'd never insinuate that you would do otherwise...I know you know better. I've seen the same "dipping"...just a waste of goopy stuff. I would bet your stuff is dialed long before you fire it. :D For others that don't know, remember...when you prime your motor, you have to rotate the crank to get oil out of all the pushrods. If you don't rotate the crank, you won't line up the holes in the lifters with the lifter oil galley, and the oil can't flow to the pushrod. Just a little pre-lube Holiday tip. LOL!
Merry Christmas!

[Schiada76]

Thanks for all the input, maybe I'll get it right this time!
I meant to ask why no assy lube on roller LIFTERS?
Should I still use it on the bores and just not on the base?

[GofastRacer]

Ray...I'd never insinuate that you would do otherwise...I know you know better. I've seen the same "dipping"...just a waste of goopy stuff. I would bet your stuff is dialed long before you fire it. :D For others that don't know, remember...when you prime your motor, you have to rotate the crank to get oil out of all the pushrods. If you don't rotate the crank, you won't line up the holes in the lifters with the lifter oil galley, and the oil can't flow to the pushrod. Just a little pre-lube Holiday tip. LOL!
Merry Christmas!
I didn't think you ever would :D And yes evrything is dialed in, checked and rechecked just as you would do!.. :) Now all you have to do is get the name straight!.. ;) :D :D

[steelcomp]

I didn't think you ever would :D And yes evrything is dialed in, checked and rechecked just as you would do!.. :) Now all you have to do is get the name straight!.. ;) :D :DSorry Art. I fixed it. Duh! :rolleyes: :D

[Infomaniac]

Art ---- Ray what the hell.
Got two of the letters right. LOL

[steelcomp]

Thanks for all the input, maybe I'll get it right this time!
I meant to ask why no assy lube on roller LIFTERS?
Should I still use it on the bores and just not on the base?
IMO, (other's may have better ideas) the best thing to do with roller lifters is first, clean them thoroughly! Make sure you get all the grease out of the rollers, around the axles. That stuff is for ease of assembly, and not for running. It won't hold up to the pressures, and it'll prevent oil from getting to the rollers. Soak them in clean solvent, roll them around with your fingers, and blow the grease out with air 'till no more grease comes out.Then you can either soak them in oil, or what I do is use a liquid assy lube, and make sure the rollers get good and oiled. Then, use the same oil you soak them in, or the assy lube, and just smear a little around the body, the roller will already be coated, and the lobes on the cam should be, as well. I also take what's left on my fingers and wipe a good coat in the lifter bore. Then install. No moly necessary, here, since there's no friction to speak of. I like to use a good liquid assy lube like Torco MPZ, since it won't run off like oil, and has good hi pressure protection. I know lots of guys use plain old oil, and have no problems.

[steelcomp]

Art ---- Ray what the hell.
Got two of the letters right. LOLLOL! What the heck! :D I've met Ray...BIG dude...hands like catcher's mits! Nice guy. Never met Art. Hope to some day. Maybe this year, since I'll have my boat running! :D You too, Don...I mean Ron. :D

[GofastRacer]

Sorry Art. I fixed it. Duh! :rolleyes: :D
;) :D :D

[GofastRacer]

LOL! What the heck! :D I've met Ray...BIG dude...hands like catcher's mits! Nice guy. Never met Art. Hope to some day. Maybe this year, since I'll have my boat running! :D You too, Don...I mean Ron. :D
I'm sure we'll hook up one of these days!.. :cool: