Our Government

[78Eliminator]

Is it just me, or is this country getting out of control? The way we are taxed, the welfare system, the government taking advantage of every aspect of your life to take money from you. Companies driving up prices to compensate. Getting paid, just enough to squeak by but never enough to really flourish?
I seriously predict a second civil war in my lifetime. I canÂ’t be the only one who is disgusted and disappointed with the people who are leading this country and how we are slowly being stripped away of our rights and repressed into submission.
What do we have to do to clean this mess up? Storm the white house with guns? Start killing corrupt politicians? How about auditing where our tax money is spent? Is the temptation in the government so intense that an honest politician is impossible? Will a poor, disadvantaged person ever really get a fair trial? Will there ever be a time when you canÂ’t buy your way out of trouble?
Well, let me know what you guys think. Sometimes I sit and just boil, wondering where this country is going to be in the next hundred yearsÂ…
[ September 16, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: 78Eliminator ]

[Blown 472]

No shit, and this home land security horse shit where they can go and see what you have checked out from the library, can you say big brother??
We need to take a hard look at the people who are running for office and make good choices and not let the media dictate who gets elected, but then that would require people getting off their asses and not being spoon feed by a media that is in with the gubment.

[Boozer]

78Eliminator:
Is it just me, or is this country getting out of control? The way we are taxed, the welfare system, the government taking advantage of every aspect of your life to take money from you. Companies driving up prices to compensate. Getting paid, just enough to squeak by but never enough to really flourish?
I seriously predict a second civil war in my lifetime. I canÂ’t be the only one who is disgusted and disappointed with the people who are leading this country and how we are slowly being stripped away of our rights and repressed into submission.
What do we have to do to clean this mess up? Storm the white house with guns? Start killing corrupt politicians? How about auditing where our tax money is spent? Is the temptation in the government so intense that an honest politician is impossible? Will a poor, disadvantaged person ever really get a fair trial? Will there ever be a time when you canÂ’t buy your way out of trouble?
Well, let me know what you guys think. Sometimes I sit and just boil, wondering where this country is going to be in the next hundred yearsÂ… I think you have just lived in California to long.
Here where I am the taxes are somewhat high but they are still within reason. California however, thats a completely different story. You guys are jacked non stop. I personally don't understand the appeal anymore. You guys are over taxed, over worked, over spent, and under paid. All for what? To have decent weather and a coastline?
It doesn't make sense to me why people stay in California. The skys aren't even blue there anymore because there's so much smog. Driving anywhere is a nightmare because there's so much traffic. You can't even have spinner rims because some essay will shoot your ass and jack them from you.
Justin you need to get the F*** out of California. Move to a state that doesn't have state tax. Colorado does but I intend to move to Wyoming where there is no state tax. Not to mention some REALLY nice lakes that do not get the least bit crowded. Endless hunting, cheap property, lots of good business oppurtunities, and most of all a liberal free government.
There are lots of states that are like Wyoming. Just gotta find the one you like the best.

[78Eliminator]

I would rather run THEM out of California. I want to nail all their dead bodies up to their garages like Bennito Mussolini.

[Blown 472]

or feed them to croc's like edi amine (sp) I think the gubment is only out for themselves but come election time they blow a bunch of sunshine up everyones ass to get votes.

[miller19j]

Yes I think that it is getting out of control. Unfortunately I think that we are slipping as a world power. If you follow history you will see that every world power eventually imploded onto itself from the Pharos (sp) to the British Empire.
We import just about everything now because it is cheaper than building it here because of laws and regulations. We canÂ’t use our natural resources because of environmental regulations. The only thing we have left is money and even that is slipping compare the Dollar to the Euro or the GB Pound.
If we donÂ’t start making changes we will just continue to go down hill.

[waterslinger]

I here you men. We need to close the gate the USA is full. If you are not an American citizen get out. We educate the world so they can spend the rest of ther like doing bad crap to us and our people. Corperate America is killing us. Exporting jobs so the CEO can get more money.
I work for a Gov. contractor who has not gave me a pay increase in 5 years but just gave the CEO a 58% hike What the F%#@

[Dave C]

Did you hear that Kalifornia did it again? More socialist nonsense!
They passed a bill requiring employers to provide health insurance for their employees. Health insurance has always been optional (and deductible, i.e. carrot and stick approach).
Most employer provide health insurance but its still their right not to provide any benefits. Its also the employees right not to work for an employer that doesn't provide benefits.

[Boozer]

Dave C:
Did you hear that Kalifornia did it again? More socialist nonsense!
They passed a bill requiring employers to provide health insurance for their employees. Health insurance has always been optional (and deductible, i.e. carrot and stick approach).
Most employer provide health insurance but its still their right not to provide any benefits. Its also the employees right not to work for an employer that doesn't provide benefits. So much for owning your own small business.

[miller19j]

Dave C:
Did you hear that Kalifornia did it again? More socialist nonsense!
They passed a bill requiring employers to provide health insurance for their employees. Health insurance has always been optional (and deductible, i.e. carrot and stick approach).
Most employer provide health insurance but its still their right not to provide any benefits. Its also the employees right not to work for an employer that doesn't provide benefits. Just another law that will end up eliminating Jobs and causing businesses to leave California. LetÂ’s face it we are a state full of Idiot Voters governed by Idiots.

[summerlove]

It's so easy to cower behind a screen name and spew shit - if you don't like it here, then move your sorry ass to Iraq! We're the best country in the world and you all vent about how bad you have it! Poor me. I pay taxes. Government is bad, boo-hoo cry You sorry POS's don't have any idea! Revolution my ass! I pay my taxes (and ALOT of them!!!$$$) to have a place to live where I can voice my opinin (like your's), vote, pray, recreate, obtain an education past third grade, and enjoy the benefits and FREEDOM of the American way of life. Millions of people around the world envy our lifestyle, and you bag on it. How sorry is that? I hope you don't fly the American Flag or sing the National Anthem before a ball game, because if you do, you're a GD hipocrite! Screw You!

[HavasuDreamin']

78Eliminator:
How about auditing where our tax money is spent? Wouldn't that be interesting! It would hold the politicians elected to office accountable for their actions. If they are caught lying, cheating, etc.....recall and boot them out. Right now there is NO accountability......so they all say what the masses want to hear until they get elected, then go about attending to their agenda.
I say F#^K all career politicians. I feel for you peeps out in mexicali. I moved 5 years ago and don't have to deal with that sh*t any more. If I still lived there, I would be looking to move.
Good Luck, and to the last legal citizen to move out of the state.......turn the lights out when you leave. :rolleyes:

[miller19j]

summerlove:
It's so easy to cower behind a screen name and spew shit - if you don't like it here, then move your sorry ass to Iraq! We're the best country in the world and you all vent about how bad you have it! Poor me. I pay taxes. Government is bad, boo-hoo cry You sorry POS's don't have any idea! Revolution my ass! I pay my taxes (and ALOT of them!!!$$$) to have a place to live where I can voice my opinin (like your's), vote, pray, recreate, obtain an education past third grade, and enjoy the benefits and FREEDOM of the American way of life. Millions of people around the world envy our lifestyle, and you bag on it. How sorry is that? I hope you don't fly the American Flag or sing the National Anthem before a ball game, because if you do, you're a GD hipocrite! Screw You! I donÂ’t follow. We donÂ’t like the direction this country is going so we are not good Americans? This country was founded by people that wanted to improve on the status quo not just sit there. I never said that America is a bad place. I just think that we are heading down a road that is destructive. I am very proud to be an American but that does not mean this place couldnÂ’t use some improvement.
We were founded on a principle of less obtrusive government. Now we seem to be going the other direction and making more government.

[78Eliminator]

summerlove:
Screw You! Yeah, man. Good idea. Just let the government take care of you. Be complacent as your rights are slowly stripped away. Where YOU belong is back in England in the 1700s. I bet you would have been pissed at the people who were fleeing to America. You would have participated in lynch mobs I'm sure, screaming that they have it so good in England.
People with your mindset did not found America, it was founded by radicals.
I know we have it good, but why just stop at that? Do you really think things are optimized? DonÂ’t you think we have a lot of work to do? DonÂ’t you think that auditing our tax money would be a wise move? Don't you think that spreading this kind of "buzz" is "American"?
Screw me? No thanks. Just bend over and take from the IRS like you like it.

[Boozer]

78Eliminator:
summerlove:
Screw You! Yeah, man. Good idea. Just let the government take care of you. Be complacent as your rights are slowly stripped away. Where YOU belong is back in England in the 1700s. I bet you would have been pissed at the people who were fleeing to America. You would have participated in lynch mobs I'm sure, screaming that they have it so good in England.
People with your mindset did not found America, it was founded by radicals.
I know we have it good, but why just stop at that? Do you really think things are optimized? DonÂ’t you think we have a lot of work to do? DonÂ’t you think that auditing our tax money would be a wise move? Don't you think that spreading this kind of "buzz" is "American"?
Screw me? No thanks. Just bend over and take from the IRS like you like it. So how would we go about making the government go through spending audits? I think it is constitutional and it is something that we should technically be allowed to do but what steps would we take to get this initiated?

[summerlove]

Miller:
The quote that started this entire thread talked about assisinating people! 78 Eliminator was proposing storming the White House - I realize he wasn't really gonna do it, but My god, I couldn't believe what I had read. You're comments were not nearly as bad, but they were still very critical. Are there opportunities to improve - absolutely! Can government do a better job? Hell yes! Can corporate America treat their customers better? Without hesitation! Should we, as proposed by 78 Elim " I would rather run THEM out of California. I want to nail all their dead bodies up to their garages like Bennito Mussolini. " I don't think so.
Should our employees be spared the most basic of benefits - health insurance - according to you, yes! My comments were directed more at 78Elim than anyone else - i just think some jumped before looking.
To 78 Eliminator:
Yeah, man. Good idea. Just let the government take care of you.
I am in a position to take care of myself, thank you.
Be complacent as your rights are slowly stripped away. I am anything but complacent. I vote each and every election and I am involved in my community.
Where YOU belong is back in England in the 1700s.
I said EUROPE, not England
I bet you would have been pissed at the people who were fleeing to America. I wouldn't know, but I do know my grandfather had to run away from communism as a young boy and he fled to America for a better quality of life - leaving his family behind, never to see them again.
People with your mindset did not found America, it was founded by radicals. Radicals like you that propose to storm the White House? You're right, I don't want any of your radicalism! However, I do support fully what our Founding fathers did and am grateful every day for the life I am privilaged to live because I was born an American.
I know we have it good, but why just stop at that? Do you really think things are optimized? DonÂ’t you think we have a lot of work to do? DonÂ’t you think that auditing our tax money would be a wise move? Don't you think that spreading this kind of "buzz" is "American"? I believe that the ballot box is the proper place to voice your displeasure with the politicans of your government, be it local, state or Federal.
Screw me? No thanks. Just bend over and take from the IRS like you like it. I didn't say I liked it - I believe that my taxes help provide for the basic services we, as Americans have come to expect. Without taxes, there'd be no police, no fire protection, no Defense Department, inadequate roads, just add anything you like, and w/o taxes, it wouldn't exist.
Was my Screw You comment too harsh, maybe to the others on this post, but not to you 78Elim. Unfortunately, you deserved it. When I deserve it, you may pay me back, and I'll take it like a man. I just think you spoke and said a few things that were way off base and now you can't back off and say you really didn't mean them.

[summerlove]

Boozer:
78Eliminator:
summerlove:
Screw You! Yeah, man. Good idea. Just let the government take care of you. Be complacent as your rights are slowly stripped away. Where YOU belong is back in England in the 1700s. I bet you would have been pissed at the people who were fleeing to America. You would have participated in lynch mobs I'm sure, screaming that they have it so good in England.
People with your mindset did not found America, it was founded by radicals.
I know we have it good, but why just stop at that? Do you really think things are optimized? DonÂ’t you think we have a lot of work to do? DonÂ’t you think that auditing our tax money would be a wise move? Don't you think that spreading this kind of "buzz" is "American"?
Screw me? No thanks. Just bend over and take from the IRS like you like it. So how would we go about making the government go through spending audits? I think it is constitutional and it is something that we should technically be allowed to do but what steps would we take to get this initiated? Governments are required to be audited every year. You can find an audit by asking the govt agency for it.

[78Eliminator]

summerlove:
Governments are required to be audited every year. You can find an audit by asking the govt agency for it. Well, that statement just proved that you are not worth debating any longer.
That and the fact that you really think I want to storm the white house and/or nail anyone to a garage door. I am just frustrated and was voicing my opinion and seeking out other opinions. I thank you for yours.
Good luck to you.

[Boozer]

Ask a GOVT Agenct for a GOVT audit and I'm sure that audit is performed by who else? The GOVT.
Which is funny because the IRS isnt even the government but rather a private company hired by the government to collect taxes.

[summerlove]

78Eliminator:
summerlove:
Governments are required to be audited every year. You can find an audit by asking the govt agency for it. Well, that statement just proved that you are not worth debating any longer.
That and the fact that you really think I want to storm the white house and/or nail anyone to a garage door. I am just frustrated and was voicing my opinion and seeking out other opinions. I thank you for yours.
Good luck to you. If you read my post, you'll notice I said I really didn't think you meant it, duh - I recognized frustration, but to say what you said, that came form you brain, not mine. I think it was a little over the top. That's all. When I f-up, I'll admit it. Here, and anywhere.
Why is my reply to Boozer so bad? It was a statement of fact. Most governmental agencies, if they have any debt or bonds, are required by the bonding agencies to be audited to ensure the bonds/debt can be repaid. Most public agencies, including the State of California, has issued bonds - have you ever voted for one as a statewide proposition???? In addition, many public agencies have policies in place that require audits to show that they are within budget and that the tax dollars are being spent wisely and in accordance with the rules and policies of the agency as well as the laws of the state or federal government. My brush may have been a little to wide, but as far as I know most public agencies conduct annual financial audits. If there are some that operate under the radar, then I am sorry for the misinformation.

[Boozer]

summerlove:
78Eliminator:
summerlove:
Governments are required to be audited every year. You can find an audit by asking the govt agency for it. Well, that statement just proved that you are not worth debating any longer.
That and the fact that you really think I want to storm the white house and/or nail anyone to a garage door. I am just frustrated and was voicing my opinion and seeking out other opinions. I thank you for yours.
Good luck to you. If you read my post, you'll notice I said I really didn't think you meant it, duh - I recognized frustration, but to say what you said, that came form you brain, not mine. I think it was a little over the top. That's all. When I f-up, I'll admit it. Here, and anywhere.
Why is my reply to Boozer so bad? It was a statement of fact. Most governmental agencies, if they have any debt or bonds, are required by the bonding agencies to be audited to ensure the bonds/debt can be repaid. Most public agencies, including the State of California, has issued bonds - have you ever voted for one as a statewide proposition???? In addition, many public agencies have policies in place that require audits to show that they are within budget and that the tax dollars are being spent wisely and in accordance with the rules and policies of the agency as well as the laws of the state or federal government. My brush may have been a little to wide, but as far as I know most public agencies conduct annual financial audits. If there are some that operate under the radar, then I am sorry for the misinformation. Who is performing these audits? A government agency or a private party that doesn't have any influence from the government to make sure everything "appears" legit?

[summerlove]

Boozer:
Who is performing these audits? A government agency or a private party that doesn't have any influence from the government to make sure everything "appears" legit? [/QB][/QUOTE]
They are conducted by outside public accounting firms. They are independent audits. Trust me on this one!

[miller19j]

summerlove:
Why is my reply to Boozer so bad? It was a statement of fact. Most governmental agencies, if they have any debt or bonds, are required by the bonding agencies to be audited to ensure the bonds/debt can be repaid. Most public agencies, including the State of California, has issued bonds - have you ever voted for one as a statewide proposition???? In addition, many public agencies have policies in place that require audits to show that they are within budget and that the tax dollars are being spent wisely and in accordance with the rules and policies of the agency as well as the laws of the state or federal government. My brush may have been a little to wide, but as far as I know most public agencies conduct annual financial audits. If there are some that operate under the radar, then I am sorry for the misinformation. In general your statement is correct. Most government agencies get audited regularly. Actually the get over audited. The sped $500 in salary to chase down a receipt that is off by 2 cents.
But a lot of our government spending is not auditable. Agencies like the CIA, NSA, and just about anyone working on homeland defense have pots of money that are not public record. I am not bashing that because that is where most of my income comes from.
The point is if the government wants to hide money they have many ways to do it. I think that is what 78 was trying to say.
I personally believe that the public records of spending are probably 98% percent accurate even thought there is all this transparent money out there but that is just my opinion.

[summerlove]

miller19j:
summerlove:
Why is my reply to Boozer so bad? It was a statement of fact. Most governmental agencies, if they have any debt or bonds, are required by the bonding agencies to be audited to ensure the bonds/debt can be repaid. Most public agencies, including the State of California, has issued bonds - have you ever voted for one as a statewide proposition???? In addition, many public agencies have policies in place that require audits to show that they are within budget and that the tax dollars are being spent wisely and in accordance with the rules and policies of the agency as well as the laws of the state or federal government. My brush may have been a little to wide, but as far as I know most public agencies conduct annual financial audits. If there are some that operate under the radar, then I am sorry for the misinformation. In general your statement is correct. Most government agencies get audited regularly. Actually the get over audited. The sped $500 in salary to chase down a receipt that is off by 2 cents.
But a lot of our government spending is not auditable. Agencies like the CIA, NSA, and just about anyone working on homeland defense have pots of money that are not public record. I am not bashing that because that is where most of my income comes from.
The point is if the government wants to hide money they have many ways to do it. I think that is what 78 was trying to say.
I personally believe that the public records of spending are probably 98% percent accurate even thought there is all this transparent money out there but that is just my opinion. I appreciate your comments very much. If we all recall, it was the audits that discovered $5,000 or some crazy high figure for military toilet seats a few years back. Govt isn't perfect by any means, and I realize this - and I know 78 Elim was expressing his frustration.

[Boozer]

Along with the $89 coffee cups.

[summerlove]

Boozer:
Along with the $89 coffee cups. Hey, I have one of those! J/K!

[78Eliminator]

So, in all actuality, it looks like we are all pretty much on the same page. That's nice, let's all shake hands :D
J

[summerlove]

78Eliminator:
So, in all actuality, it looks like we are all pretty much on the same page. That's nice, let's all shake hands :D
J I'll say I'm sorry if you say you're sorry! wink

[miller19j]

summerlove:
it was the audits that discovered $5,000 or some crazy high figure for military toilet seats a few years back. ThatÂ’s what happens when you build things to military spec. You think that is scary think about all the money spent designing that mil spec Toilet seat.
Things have changed now there is a push to buy COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) when available. The days of mil spec toilets seats are gone!

[TahitiSteve]

Is the temptation in the government so intense that an honest politician is impossible? I believe a capitalist/individual right respecting politician is impossible today. With most of the government spending coming from the top down the incentive is for the states/cities/localities to take everything they can get from the higher levels, and keep fighting for more. It's not so much about their honesty, as it is about their ideals, the current system punishes individualism in politicians.
They can stand on individual responsibility, while their community is forced to pay for the irresponsibility of others at the same level of government. Or they can join in the irresponsibility to the comparative benefit of their community. That is, if many cities are getting funding (for various projects) from the state, and one city decides not to fight for state money, and have the city fund its own spending. The community is still forced to pay for the pork barrelling of the rest of the cities, while getting no benefit from it.
While it harms the whole, incessant government growth is in the comparative economic interest of the parts. Any politician who does not fight for pork barrel projects is putting himself and his community at a disadvantage, even though he is helping the country by not doing so. He will be seen as ineffective and rooted out before he reaches the top.
What needs to be done is to turn the tax system on its head. Have the lowest levels of government collect ALL the taxes, and they pay their superiors, all the way up to the national level. This way each lower level is under the incentive to keep the spending of the higher levels in check.
This solution is just my personal theory, other than getting it enacted, anyone see any problems with it?