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MJ19
10-16-2003, 09:01 PM
Anyone that is in the "know" please answer this question that I'm curious about.
If all the workers at the markets are union and on strike...who is in charge of hiring the non-union workers and keeping the stores running? Is upper management non-union?
If upper management is non-union, do you join the union work your way to the top to un-join?
I am genuinely curious about that? Please answer if you know the correct answer...thanks :)

C-2
10-16-2003, 09:42 PM
With Albertson's, the store director (non union) was the only person who could interview and hire the temp employees.
Not sure how the managers/supervisors/store directors go from union (while working thru the ranks)to non-union, maybe Riodog can answer that question and the reasoning behind it.

Boozer
10-16-2003, 09:46 PM
Management is non-union. Not so much you work your way to non union but you get to be management and you make more money but you no longer have union representation. You also will end up paying more your benefits. However, when the union strikes you don't it's a good deal.
My last employer was union based. I didn't want to join the union because I don't agree or believe in unions but in the state of Colorado if you work for a union company you have to pay union dues regardless of membership. It's total B.S. You don't realize just how much B.S. it is until the union steward states to you "The company is going t do what the company wants, we will try to grieve but there are not garuntees." Is that Bullshit or what I was giving them more a month then I give the cable company and that's what I get as a result.
However if you ever take a job for a company thay is union whil they are on strike when the strike is over you lose your job and you will NEVER work for that company because the union prohibits you from doing so.
P.S.
I will NEVER again work for a cmpany that has a union.

Boozer
10-16-2003, 09:54 PM
BTW there is nothing more liberal B.S. then a union. you give us your money and we will protect your job security. (Which they really only do a half ass jobat but protect the weak and shitty workers)
If you work your ass of you will be an asset to your employer and your employer wont want to get rid of you, in the event your employer for some reason has to due to budget cuts or whatever they will still give you a good refference and you will be able to find something else even better, hopefully.
F Unions. I can give you several examples of why unions suck. But I'm sure most of you know so I'll spare the bandwidth.
But plain and simple. If you are an honest hardworking employee why should you have to pay someone to make sure your job will be secure? Shouldn't it be somewhat secure just because your a good employee and an asset to your employer????

572Daytona
10-16-2003, 09:57 PM
I worked for AT&T for a while and it was a somewhat common practice for workers to get "promoted" into management when they switched to a different job family. Although the management salaries were for the most part higher the promotion part is somewhat circumspect as you no longer got OT pay anymore no matter how many hours you work over 40. Some people that did the switch took a pretty big hit income wise when they did this. As for the benefits I believe at least at the time was that AT&T gave whatever benefits that the union negotiated to the managers as well.

C-2
10-16-2003, 09:57 PM
Boozer:
BTW there is nothing more liberal B.S. then a union. you give us your money and we will protect your job security. (Which they really only do a half ass jobat but protect the weak and shitty workers)
If you work your ass of you will be an asset to your employer and your employer wont want to get rid of you, in the event your employer for some reason has to due to budget cuts or whatever they will still give you a good refference and you will be able to find something else even better, hopefully.
F Unions. I can give you several examples of why unions suck. But I'm sure most of you know so I'll spare the bandwidth.
But plain and simple. If you are an honest hardworking employee why should you have to pay someone to make sure your job will be secure? Shouldn't it be somewhat secure just because your a good employee and an asset to your employer???? This topic was just beat to death with a lot of great responses. Check out;
http://forums.***boat.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=007365

Jungle Boy
10-17-2003, 06:43 AM
Unions in my mind cultivate lazyness. You only have to work as hard as the worse guy there, so it robs you of any ambition to work hard and excell.

burbanite
10-17-2003, 07:21 AM
Jungle Boy:
Unions in my mind cultivate lazyness. You only have to work as hard as the worse guy there, so it robs you of any ambition to work hard and excell. Bingo!
The only way to survive more than a day in my business is by being self motivated. If there was a "Motor Racing Union" there would never be a green flag...

Dave C
10-17-2003, 08:23 AM
Amen Boozer....
Burb... they can't drop the green flag right now, they are on their mandated 2 hour break! wink
[ October 17, 2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Dave C ]

Ziggy
10-17-2003, 09:34 AM
MJ19:
Anyone that is in the "know" please answer this question that I'm curious about.
If all the workers at the markets are union and on strike...who is in charge of hiring the non-union workers and keeping the stores running? Is upper management non-union?
If upper management is non-union, do you join the union work your way to the top to un-join?
I am genuinely curious about that? Please answer if you know the correct answer...thanks :) C-2 answers correctly to the best of my knowledge---which was what your question was. A friend of mine works for the grocery stores and he has since H.S., he's been asked to move into management many times but declines cuz of lost OT pay mostly, so he has stayed for years now at what he calls 3rd man at the store, one step below management and just works the cush hours.
Personally, unions have outlived their usefullness in todays society and in reading the Letters to Editor in my local newspaper shows that the general feeling of people feel the same way, for whatever thats worth.
BTW-nice to see you again Lindsey(aka wifey) wink You about to get that biz off the ground? I know someone you could contact who has done that before if you want some insight.(you know them too)
[ October 17, 2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Ziggy ]

MJ19
10-17-2003, 04:42 PM
Thanks for the info...I had wondered how that all worked out...Personally I'd be working my tail off to make upper management and get the bigger bucks :)

Racing Ray
10-17-2003, 09:06 PM
Unions one of my favorite subjects. Last Union I belonged to was Operating Engineers Local 501, I had a job offer to go back to my previous job also Local 501.
The company I was working for at the time didn't want to lose me and offered me a "Merit" raise to stay. The union fought the raise and threatened strike. The employer caved in, I stuck my burning member card through the glass protection barrier at the local office.
I didn't request a withdrawal card but suggested they could shove the burning membership card up their ass! Took me 2 months to sell my house and move to a "Right to Work" state.
Oh yeah we were 2 years behind in contract negoations and when they finally got us a $.50 cent raise a month later we got notice of a $50.00 a month increase in dues!!
In short FTU!

Infomaniac
10-18-2003, 07:24 AM
You can hire directly into management.
Do not need to work your way up through the contract employee ranks.
Unions were necessary 60 - 70 years ago when employers were actually abusing their employees and the working conditions were horrible.
Now there are government agencies that prevent these actions and conditions.
The unions now are focused on getting as much pay, benefits and work rule compensation for their members as possible.
The companies naturally will negotiate increases when the contracts are up to renew. The company does not have many options on who does their work.
The increased costs of their product are passed on to the consumer. The consumer makes the final decision on whether they are willing to pay for that or not. The consumer has options on who they buy the product from.
If the company does not just hand over the increases due to their knowledge that the increased cost will allow lower cost competitors to take more of their market share. The union employees feel that the company is screwing them. It is a vicious cycle that eventually leads to the failure of the corporation or at the very least foreign competitors growing bigger.
[ October 18, 2003, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

NorCal Gameshow
10-18-2003, 07:49 AM
[/qb][/QUOTE]C-2 answers correctly to the best of my knowledge---which was what your question was. A friend of mine works for the grocery stores and he has since H.S., he's been asked to move into management many times but declines cuz of lost OT pay mostly, so he has stayed for years now at what he calls 3rd man at the store, one step below management and just works the cush hours. [/QB][/QUOTE]
"cush hours" as a 3rd man? i must have been working for the wrong market :D i'm happy that was a previous life..
ziggy nailed it. there's usually two salaried people at each store..store director and manager of ops.
the vast majority of (store) management worked their way up from bagging groceries or ripping cardboard

Rexone
10-18-2003, 02:49 PM
Infomaniac:
You can hire directly into management.
Do not need to work your way up through the contract employee ranks.
Unions were necessary 60 - 70 years ago when employers were actually abusing their employees and the working conditions were horrible.
Now there are government agencies that prevent these actions and conditions.
The unions now are focused on getting as much pay, benefits and work rule compensation for their members as possible.
The companies naturally will negotiate increases when the contracts are up to renew. The company does not have many options on who does their work.
The increased costs of their product are passed on to the consumer. The consumer makes the final decision on whether they are willing to pay for that or not. The consumer has options on who they buy the product from.
If the company does not just hand over the increases due to their knowledge that the increased cost will allow lower cost competitors to take more of their market share. The union employees feel that the company is screwing them. It is a vicious cycle that eventually leads to the failure of the corporation or at the very least foreign competitors growing bigger. Excellent analysis Racing Ray and info. Unions have long past their time of usefulness. All they do now is milk the members for money and negotiate concessions from companies that ultimately render the companies uncompetitive to non-union and foriegn competition. Basically everyone loses. Companies ultimately fail and employees are out of a job. But hey, the union made money and survived. Long term, unions are bad news for just about everyone involved because they interfere with normal free market fluctuation of wages and costs that allow companies to survive in competitive environments. Kind of like tying one company hand behind it's back and sending it into the ring against Evander... company's gonna get its ass kicked.
[ October 18, 2003, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Rexone ]