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View Full Version : Photo/Lighting/Shadow Experts WANTED!



HBjet
09-22-2003, 01:59 PM
Ok, my buddy Slowboat1 posted these photo's saying they where taken in order, during the same run. It only took a minute to notice that the second photo was clearly taken later in the day verses the first photo. My argument is the shadows on the motor clearly show the difference in the time of day. I noticed how the trees in the second photo where darker, but I held off on that because you can't honestly say the trees are all the same all the way along the river/lake, but you can say the valve cover stays the same shape and the motor keeps a consistant height from one photo to the other, but for some reason, the valve cover in the first photo has the sun shining on it, which would tell the me the sun is somewhere between 12-1 o'clock. In the second photo (which Slowboat1 says is the same run) the valve cover is now shadowed, there is no sun shining on it. Another give away is the photo size, if they where taken one after the other, way is the last photo a little bigger? I guess you could argue that you resized them, but why wouldn't you resize them all the same?
Ok, here are the photo's. For those of you who don't care, then don't post. For those of you that are familiar with lighting and photography, please tell me if I'm right, or if I'm wrong. I'm not some professional photographer, just pointing out what stands out. Thanks
First Photo
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/208Wacorace4.bmp
Second Photo
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/208Waco_By_KC-Lake_Rat-med.bmp
HBjet

mirvin
09-22-2003, 02:03 PM
Hey HB, can't see the photo's.
frown

al cole'holic
09-22-2003, 02:04 PM
You smoking out of a lightbulb lately?? :D

HBjet
09-22-2003, 02:04 PM
mirvin:
Hey HB, can't see the photo's.
:( I can... it takes a little longer then normal for them to load.
HBjet

mirvin
09-22-2003, 02:08 PM
Strange, all I see is that little red green and blue icon dealy.
Al cole, can you see em'?

Screaming Pete
09-22-2003, 02:19 PM
Tehy are taken at the same time . One have a wider shot and picks up more background and the other is a close up and has been refouced to get the boat with less background. why i replyed to this post i don't know but i guess i just felt the need

HBjet
09-22-2003, 02:23 PM
RD, Steve is saying he spanked the other boat, and clearly said that these photo's where taken in order, and as you can see, the last photo the other boat is no where to be found.
I told him it's bullshit these where taken in order on the same run, because the second photo was clealy taken later in the day. He's again sticking with his story that they are, so I decided to ask what everyone else thought since I'm no expert in photography and lighting.
What this boils down to is just discrediting Slowboat1 again. I'm not saying he isn't a nice guy, or isn't having fun racing, or doing bad, I'm just saying this is clearly bullshit, and if he has to lie about the outcome of the talked about run, well, what else is he BS'ing about?
HBjet

Slick
09-22-2003, 02:25 PM
Randy,
You need some downers or anti-depressants or something. I'll send some with Jordy to RD's B-day bash.
Get some rest. I'm worried about you, Bro.
Slick

HBjet
09-22-2003, 02:29 PM
Screaming Pete:
Tehy are taken at the same time . One have a wider shot and picks up more background and the other is a close up and has been refouced to get the boat with less background. why i replyed to this post i don't know but i guess i just felt the need But what does that have to do with the top of the valve cover? In the first photo, it has the sunlight shining on it, in the second, it's shadowed by the motor. His motor isn't that tall to where the shadow would shift in 100-200 feet or so. And, the sun isn't close enough to the earth to render such a shift in the shadow in the small distance of travel, if it was, we would all be dead.
HBjet

RandyH
09-22-2003, 02:30 PM
All I can say is it would appear that the CP is so well set up that as it passed the Hydro it never even leaves a mark on the water. The perfect set up and shoe setting. :D
I cant even get my digital to shoot 4 good shots in under 10 seconds. Maybe they had the rapid fire mode on. Need to see the property of the JPEG to see if they all have the same time stamp. If he is telling you the truth then he would send you the raw jpeg and the properties would tell the story.
RandyH

mickeyfinn
09-22-2003, 02:45 PM
Looks to me like the second picture was taken much later...maybe 4 or 5 gallons of fuel later. See how much higher our of the water it is riding in the second photo?...J/K :D :D
Does anyone really care what order the pics were taken in? I mean from what I've seen no one here needs facts to back up an arguement. They just repeat themselves until someone starts to believe.

Dog
09-22-2003, 03:02 PM
I am no expert but look at the boat shadow on the water look at the light on the helmet. pretty close. Now look at the angle of the photos from the angle of the fuel tank, now go outside and walk down the street and watch your shadow move.
Pretty lame there you must have to much time on your hands.

572Daytona
09-22-2003, 03:05 PM
Maybe one photo is corrected and the other uncorrected. We all know what a difference a correction factor can make wink

smalls
09-22-2003, 03:10 PM
The shadow looks pretty close, The boat is lower in the water an shows more Refletion than the second one.?????? .02 wink

HM
09-22-2003, 03:14 PM
HB, you are right - look at the shadows on his helmet as well.
But, who gives a fock about JETHydRO - I mean come on, the guy is just using the deck life handed him - you remember what he looks like:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/290RR1b-med.jpg
smile_sp smile_sp smile_sp smile_sp

1Shockwaveguy
09-22-2003, 03:28 PM
HB, it is very possible that the sun is hitting the valve cover from a diff. angle in the 2 pic's. Say one was taken at a 45 degree angle and the other straight on. If the photographer turned, as he or she would to follow the boat down the strip, the sun would hit at diff. angles thus presenting a diff. shadow. Just my 2 cents, don't even understand why it matters.

HBjet
09-22-2003, 03:39 PM
Well, I'm looking at the shadows on the valve cover, hull, helmet, and his right arm. I don't see how they can all change in 100-200 feet if you are going in a straight line. How could the motor be shadowing the valve cover in the last photo, but not in the first? So some how the sun dropped a few million/billion miles in one second getting low enough to shine on the left side of the motor enough to shadow the valve cover?
Sorry of you don't like this post, but we where talking about this on a thread in the Just Jets section, and I was told to move to the sandbar.... It's not that I have all this time, I'm just trying to make a point that these two photo's where taken at different times of the day. What you need to focus on are the shadows from fixed objects. Like the valve cover and hull. The height of the hull from the water will change many times with a boat like that, so you can't really rely on the hulls shadow. Same for the trees, the tree line will never be the same, so, again.... you can rely on that. Just look at the hull and you will see where it's darker in some areas, and in the first photo, it's lighter. I just say there is no way you can have that much of a shadow difference in 100-200 feet in 1-2 seconds. Sorry, isn't possible with natural light.
HBjet

ROZ
09-22-2003, 03:41 PM
Forensic:
The angle of the shadows under his hull are the same... The background can change contrast due to light and angle of the sun. He is moving so the angle of the sun to the camera would change. If the conditions were right, the background would darken to compensate for the forground. Especially if it were taken with a digital camera.. I only know that becuase I have had the same effect happen to some of my photos. Anyway, I say he is not talking out his neck just by the shadows.I agree, plus the 1st picture the boat is further away than the 2nd picture. Viewing angle changes, and so does light....

Her454
09-22-2003, 03:46 PM
This is a question for SUPERJERRY! C'mon where's V-DRIVE VIDEO when ya need him...... :D :D

HM
09-22-2003, 03:51 PM
People - this is a drag race, not a circle race.
11 seconds in a straight line. The shadow angles thrown by the boat never change. Therefore, if the valve covers are in the sun, they stay in the sun - it does not matter what angle you look at it from. Regardless of the viewing angle, the shadows will be in the SAME place!!
I am with RD in just making fun of Slowy, but some of the responses are make me think that there are several members on these boards whose driveways don't go all the way to the street - regardless of what angle you view it from.
But, the bottom line is Slowy is full of chit - which is a suprise??
Beside, I think it is time for him to commit forum suicide anyways, and then blame it on ***boat censoring his free speech.

ROZ
09-22-2003, 03:52 PM
HBjet:
Well, I'm looking at the shadows on the valve cover, hull, helmet, and his right arm. I don't see how they can all change in 100-200 feet if you are going in a straight line. How could the motor be shadowing the valve cover in the last photo, but not in the first? So some how the sun dropped a few million/billion miles in one second getting low enough to shine on the left side of the motor enough to shadow the valve cover?
What you need to focus on are the shadows from fixed objects. Like the valve cover and hull. The height of the hull from the water will change many times with a boat like that, so you can't really rely on the hulls shadow. Same for the trees, the tree line will never be the same, so, again.... you can rely on that. Just look at the hull and you will see where it's darker in some areas, and in the first photo, it's lighter. I just say there is no way you can have that much of a shadow difference in 100-200 feet in 1-2 seconds. Sorry, isn't possible with natural light.
HBjet I don't know about you, but when I' looking through my camera's window and get a bit of a glare, I can change position within a couple degrees to get a nice shot. That's startionary...

ROZ
09-22-2003, 03:58 PM
HolyMoly:
People - this is a drag race, not a circle race.
11 seconds in a straight line. The shadow angles thrown by the boat never change. Therefore, if the valve covers are in the sun, they stay in the sun - it does not matter what angle you look at it from. Regardless of the viewing angle, the shadows will be in the SAME place!!
I am with RD in just making fun of Slowy, but some of the responses are make me think that there are several members on these boards whose driveways don't go all the way to the street - regardless of what angle you view it from.
But, the bottom line is Slowy is full of chit - which is a suprise??
Beside, I think it is time for him to commit forum suicide anyways, and then blame it on ***boat censoring his free speech. I'll have to disagree with you there...I have plenty of shots at the drags that were taken highspeed from the same spot, and the light on the car changes as it comes down the track....You can have glare off lexan in on frame and no glare 2 frames after.....

Dog
09-22-2003, 03:59 PM
What i would suggest is get someone with a camera and a gps or a long tape measure. stand 100' away from them and take a picture then go another hundred feet to 200' away from the camera and try to stay the same distance away vertically from the camera and take another picture. Then go right in front of the camera same distance out from the camera and take another picture, then upload them to your and post them so we can all have an accurate visual referenece(sp).
Thank you
[ September 22, 2003, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Dog ]

1Shockwaveguy
09-22-2003, 04:01 PM
Roz and I are saying the same thing, it doesn't take much to change glares and shadows.
HB, I never said I didn't like this thread, I just said I didn't understand why it mattered. You asked for an oppinion and I gave you mine. Sorry you don't like it.

1Shockwaveguy
09-22-2003, 04:02 PM
last week messed around and got a triple double
[ September 22, 2003, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: 1Shockwaveguy ]

HBjet
09-22-2003, 04:07 PM
I didn't say I didn't like yours, or anyone elses opinions. I just don't see how natural light shining downward on photo 1 would no longer be shining downward in photo 2 200 feet and 1-2 seconds later.
Ok, if it's really a lense, angle thing, they what is making the valve cover so dark in the second photo that isn't making it dark in the first? Something has to be in it's way since the SUN is in the same location.
HBjet

HalletDave
09-22-2003, 04:12 PM
Something has to be in it's way since the SUN is in the same location.
Not trying to stir up shit here, but what about cloud cover?
Hallett (the weatherman) Dave

Dog
09-22-2003, 04:14 PM
Is the sun still out? go do some research outside and you tell us?

HBjet
09-22-2003, 04:49 PM
HalletDave:
but what about cloud cover?
Hallett (the weatherman) Dave Then the entire boat would be shadowed, not just a valve cover. If it was from a cloude, that would have to be some thick and small cloud and the chance of getting it positioned in a way to only cover the right valve cover on a speeding object and to have someone capture it on film is about as good as Slowboat1 making that thing go 100mph and not shit himself on a regular bases.
HBjet

Slick
09-22-2003, 05:06 PM
The geese are starting to fly south for the winter. Maybe it was a goose. pig_flyi

HM
09-22-2003, 05:12 PM
HalletDave:
Something has to be in it's way since the SUN is in the same location.
Not trying to stir up shit here, but what about cloud cover?
Hallett (the weatherman) Dave LOL - there was one tiny cloud that covered only the valve cover.
I sent this photo to my buddy at TRW who is involved with satalite photos of the earth, who forwarded it on to his dad who is a PhD and an expert in the field, and both called me on a conference call.
After they were done laughing about why I wanted their opinion, they say it is pretty clear that the photos are several hours apart. They could give me the exact times if I provided the coordinates of the race, the day, and direction of travel, and $2,500 - the bro deal.

HBjet
09-22-2003, 05:25 PM
HolyMoly:
I sent this photo to my buddy at TRW who is involved with satalite photos of the earth, who forwarded it on to his dad who is a PhD and an expert in the field, and both called me on a conference call.
After they were done laughing about why I wanted their opinion, they say it is pretty clear that the photos are several hours apart. They could give me the exact times if I provided the coordinates of the race, the day, and direction of travel, and $2,500 - the bro deal. Now that's funny!
HolyMoly, did you know that the CP in the first photo took second at that race? Yeah, it did! And some other boat took first, but Slowboat1 said be beat the CP by two boat lengths.... and has only Red Lit once at another race.
HBjet

Slick
09-22-2003, 05:30 PM
I'm glad this has all come out in the clear. I was real worried as to whetherornot you were going to be able to sleep tonight. sleeping

HM
09-22-2003, 05:40 PM
Slick:
I'm glad this has all come out in the clear. I was real worried as to whetherornot you were going to be able to sleep tonight. sleeping LOL!
Here, this should make you laugh:
http://the909.com/images/jethro.jpg

HM
09-22-2003, 06:21 PM
HBjet:
HolyMoly:
I sent this photo to my buddy at TRW who is involved with satalite photos of the earth, who forwarded it on to his dad who is a PhD and an expert in the field, and both called me on a conference call.
After they were done laughing about why I wanted their opinion, they say it is pretty clear that the photos are several hours apart. They could give me the exact times if I provided the coordinates of the race, the day, and direction of travel, and $2,500 - the bro deal. Now that's funny!
HolyMoly, did you know that the CP in the first photo took second at that race? Yeah, it did! And some other boat took first, but Slowboat1 said be beat the CP by two boat lengths.... and has only Red Lit once at another race.
HBjet Randy,
Nothing suprises me when it comes to the level of BullSheet that Slowy will heep. It really is time for his semi-annual forum suicide attempt as he blames hot boat for censoring or some other b.s. What ever happened to EMAD? Did slowy loose the password?
Memories.....

spectras only
09-22-2003, 06:45 PM
Randy , I'm quite confident to say that the two photos were taken the same time frame. When you zoom in like in photo # 2 the backround will dominate the picture. If you look at # 1 photo ,you'll see the ambient light is dark under the trees along the shore. Exposure values will change when the light sensor picks up a huge area zooming in to the backround in pic # 2. The same shot would look different if you take it with average or spot metering. Can't really tell for sure without knowing what camera was used and what settings were used in the two shots. There's a reason why many cameras have a date function wink :D

572Daytona
09-22-2003, 06:51 PM
But when was this picture taken?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/368hbjetslowy_copy.jpg

BLUBYU
09-22-2003, 06:59 PM
572Daytona:
But when was this picture taken?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/368hbjetslowy_copy.jpg That's too funny. I think HB is catching him but one of thiem is veering off the course. Can't wait to see who wins...... :confused: :confused:

spectratoad
09-23-2003, 06:50 AM
I don't see any wake from the other boat in the second pic but in my amateur opinion the shadows look the same just one is zoomed in closer. :D
In the first photo the sun would appear to be hig and in front a little, into the second photo as you move forward sun angle would move to the rear possibly shading the valve cover with the intake scoop. But who knows.

spectratoad
09-23-2003, 06:50 AM
Damn is it Monday again? :D
[ September 23, 2003, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: spectratoad ]

superdave013
09-23-2003, 07:06 AM
How's this look. Just turned up the brightness a bit. Keep in mind that when you zoom in the F# goes up on the lens and the pic will be darker.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/9208Waco_By_KC-Lake_Rat-med.bmp

TahitiSteve
09-23-2003, 07:24 AM
I say the photos were taken very close to the same time. The angle of the shadow on the water from the tip of the sponson is the same in both pics.
Then again, I'm sure the settings on the camera weren't changed during the run so it seems one of the photo's has been resized or cropped.

H.B. Brett
09-23-2003, 08:11 AM
If the shots were taken by the same guy, how'd he stay ahead of them in both shots. If he was on the shore he must be the six million dollar man, and if the cameraman was in a boat, then the cameraman won the race! smile_sp

superdave013
09-23-2003, 08:33 AM
H.B. Brett:
If the shots were taken by the same guy, how'd he stay ahead of them in both shots. If he was on the shore he must be the six million dollar man, and if the cameraman was in a boat, then the cameraman won the race! smile_sp guys take shots like that all the time. They sweep the track and hit the autowinder.
I'm not sayin it's easy but I've got off 3 or 4 shots advancing the film by hand.

spectras only
09-23-2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by superdave013:
They sweep the track and hit the autowinder.
I'm not sayin it's easy but I've got off 3 or 4 ,like SD said! The more expensive cameras like Nikon/Canon have MD's with 9.5 frames per second. You hit the button and a whole roll is gone in 4 seconds :D .

HBjet
09-23-2003, 09:10 AM
the realt beauty is the first shot (and all of the other shots with boat 042 in them) was taken by one guy, and the last shot was taken by another. Slowboat1 however is claiming they where all taken from the same guy!
What about boat 042? These photo's where taken at the Waco SDBA race in April, and boat 042 took 2nd and Slowboat1 wasn't the 1st place winner. So, how is that?
HBjet

Blown 472
09-23-2003, 11:43 AM
HBjet:
the realt beauty is the first shot (and all of the other shots with boat 042 in them) was taken by one guy, and the last shot was taken by another. Slowboat1 however is claiming they where all taken from the same guy!
What about boat 042? These photo's where taken at the Waco SDBA race in April, and boat 042 took 2nd and Slowboat1 wasn't the 1st place winner. So, how is that?
HBjet Why dont you race him? then it is all done. :confused:

ralph
09-24-2003, 06:54 AM
all phd cameras constantly change settings within a camera, all digital are Press Here Dummy cmaeras unless you go to extreems to over ride the functons. As far as shadow goes or light angle go out side and look at your car any change in direction of the contour, will change color and shadow. on water with the varied directions from ripples and such and movement nothing stays the same. unless you mount your camera on top of his and have both take at same time you can not determine time or date. i have changed times and dates in mine to make a point even though it is a lie.so the raw data from the camera is not valid either. you either take each others word for the actionor call each other liers, and allyou have done is call each other a name, nothing proved.

ralph
09-24-2003, 06:57 AM
one thing i noticed is the other boat driver is not wearing a helmet, dont know of any organized race groups that would allow this or is this just another style of street racing