Another Cobra Boats Story

[Foss75]

I wanted to let all of you know that I received a letter in the mail today from Jeff Bohn's attorney. He is claiming that I (as well as others) on these forums are hurting his business. He is threatening to sue me because I have posted about my displeasure with his product and service (customer service and mechanical service). I just thought all of you would like to hear about this and maybe get a good laugh out of it, knowing what kind of guy he is. To all those looking to buy one of his boats at the boat shows: this is a perfect example of what kind of guy he is.

[Mandelon]

I guess you're not allowed to have an opinion.... I don't see how anyone even a lawyer can dispute the truth, even if it is your version. They are free to log on and supply the other side of the story.
Can they sue the Better Business Bureau for a negative rating? How about over a Dunn and Bradstreet score? I know you can get a lawyer to sue anybody for anything nowadays. Still doesn't make it right. :mad:
Seems to me they should be writing you a letter asking how they can make you happy, and turn you into a satisfied customer instead of trying to simply shut you up. For the amount of money he's going to spend on a lawyer, they could probably take care of your issues....
[ February 19, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Mandelon ]

[mbrown2]

Great....another builder where I have to include my own lawyer along with my wife into the graphics selection process..

[Mohavekid]

Foss75, I'm not a lawyer nor an I affiliated with Cobra. I do know something about the legal system though. The law says you have the right to free speech, it also allows those who feel they have been damaged by your speech to seek monitary damages.
Legally it's called defamation, libel, slander, interference with economic advantage and a host of other things. If you have homeowners insurance, you might want to check and see if you have Personal Injury coverage which would protect you in the event Cobra sues you for what you've posted here. The truth is a defense to the allegation of defamation, it's just very expensive to take a case to trial for a jury to decide if you've told the truth. Most of us cannot afford to defend a lawsuit of this type without insurance coverage.
:) Just an FYI, good luck with them.

[beyondhelpin]

Wow I have always liked the looks of their boats but I just cant see myself even looking at them now. It is a sad day when the a business of what ever kind will not resolve the issues of his customer. To make matters worse instead of taking care of the problem he is going to take your money and try to sue you with it. That is B.S..
If you have a problem with what he is saying come defend yourself. The truth normaly prevails. Dont send the dogs to intimidate.
BTW If you want to send me a letter go ahead. I keep an attorney on retainer and I just might counter sue.

[77charger]

i dont thing it is defamation if it is true?that sucks to have a builder threathen you over their cust service probs.

[TCHB]

This is the US and we can express our views and experiences. I am suprised I have not heard the boat manufacture come on the boards and tell his side of the stories. Thanks for letting us know about your dealings with Cobra.

[bordsmnj]

to actually sue you and make it stick he would a)have to prove that you cost him money(show a loss) and b)prove that what you said was out of malice.(you just bein' mean.) Prove is defined as convincing 2/3 of a jury the he isn't just a dick.
argue :rolleyes:

[Mandelon]

As long as you're not making up slanderous tales and only relating your true story I don't see how you can lose.....but if you do have to legally defend yourself, it could be expensive. Is that the price of free speech now?
What do you call 5000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean???????

[Mohavekid]

77 Charger & Bordsmnj, you're right, if it's true it's not defamation.
The problem is you have to be able to afford to prove it. Lawyers and defending litigation against you is very expensive. A jury decides truth, you must get the case to a jury and that is going to take time and money.

[Cantrip]

If you have a client who is not happy with their product or is having qualms with any service they have gotten from a manufacture, you facilitate all of their needs and go above and beyond so when they say anything about your company, its positive, like "damn, jeff ****ed up my boat and gave me shitty service, but he gave me free services for as long as I own the boat and promised me the problem will never occur again" or something to that effect. Take Charley's situation, his boat got stolen out of DCB's lot, so what does Dave do, builds him a new boat.... Holy shit!! Dave went over and beyond the call of duty and now made alot of fans and is now probably going to sell alot more boats. 'Keep them coming back, and bring their friends too' should be the motto for companies and to do this, sometimes you need to take a loss. So jeff, if you are reading this take heed man, because if you do some magic here and make Foss75 happy, you have a really nice 26ft closed bow cat I saw at the show that would look perfect behind my truck and me behind the wheel !!! :)

[DogHouse]

Mandelon:
What do you call 5000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean??????? A good start?!?!
:D

[Brendella]

I TALK TO THE GUY FROM AFTERSHOCK BOATS ON SAT. ASK HIM ABOUT THE BOAT THAT FELL OFF THE TRAILER. HE LAUGH AND SAID IT WAS HIS FAULT JUST AS THE STORY SAID. HE OFFERED THE CUSTOMER A NEW BOAT AND TO KEEP THAT ONE WHILE THEY WAIT FOR THE NEW ONE.
IF YOU ARE BUILDING BOATS CUSTOMER SERVICE IS A MUST.
BRENDELLA

[77charger]

Brendella:
I TALK TO THE GUY FROM AFTERSHOCK BOATS ON SAT. ASK HIM ABOUT THE BOAT THAT FELL OFF THE TRAILER. HE LAUGH AND SAID IT WAS HIS FAULT JUST AS THE STORY SAID. HE OFFERED THE CUSTOMER A NEW BOAT AND TO KEEP THAT ONE WHILE THEY WAIT FOR THE NEW ONE.
IF YOU ARE BUILDING BOATS CUSTOMER SERVICE IS A MUST.
BRENDELLA some people say they dont like their boats but at least they seem to have good cust service which to me is more important than a builder who justs wants your money and not back up anything!

[locogringo]

IMO, if anyhting I think he is trying to scare you into an apology.

[Kilrtoy]

WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Instead of fixing his screw up, he just screws the owner even more. HE IS WORSE THAN THE IRS AND DMV EMPLOYEES COMBINED..................

[Foss75]

Thanks guys! I will try to scan the letter tomorrow and post it for you guys to see.

[***boat]

WTF?? Did HOSS's user name just change, or was it always that way? Just upgraded the forums so I hope that was not the result. I need to get some sleep.

[HavasuDreamin']

Mandelon:
I guess you're not allowed to have an opinion.... I don't see how anyone even a lawyer can dispute the truth, even if it is your version. They are free to log on and supply the other side of the story.
Can they sue the Better Business Bureau for a negative rating? How about over a Dunn and Bradstreet score? I know you can get a lawyer to sue anybody for anything nowadays. Still doesn't make it right. :mad:
Seems to me they should be writing you a letter asking how they can make you happy, and turn you into a satisfied customer instead of trying to simply shut you up. For the amount of money he's going to spend on a lawyer, they could probably take care of your issues.... I agree with everything you said. Customer Service goes a long way in the boat business and it looks like this guy needs remedial classes.

[JetBoatRich]

What a jerk, they should give their side of the story and let people make their own decisions. They seem guilty to me and this is their way of dealing with it cry

[HavasuDreamin']

One more thing..........if Cobra sues Foss75 and the court rules that the case is frivilous and Foss had every right to voice his opinion, couldn't Cobra be libel for Foss's attorney fees?
I think Cobra is getting bad legal advice. Would it not have been better legal advice to tell Cobra to fix this guy's boat, and ask him in return to stop passing out the fliers at the boat show?
Makes sense to me.
[ February 20, 2003, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: HavasuDreamin' ]

[Slick]

Keep in mind, for $75 a month, any company can get a membership to PrePaid Legal. It affords you so many collection and other leters per month as well as discount legal services. I highly doubt Cobra has their own attorney on retainer. At the very most, I'd have someone read it. I wouldn't put too much into that letter.
Good Luck
Slick

[beyondhelpin]

Hey Slick that is what I have. But its not just discount its free. I have used them a couple of times for small stuff and had good service. They contract out to one of the better attorney firms. They represent you if you are sued or have crimminal action taken againt you. But If you are sueing someone else is when the discount service kicks in. Still it provides peace of mind with all the sue crazy idiots out there.
Disregard the mumblings on the latter part of my last message. I just broke my shoulder and I must have been high on my meds! Even if I have insurance for just that kind of thing it is still pretty stupid to ask for it.
Honey have you seen my meds?!!!

[Tez]

A good friend of mine was recently considering purchasing a Cobra boat. However after I advised him of your Customer Service problems he has decided to look at different brands this week at the boat show...Thanks for the info Foss75.

[diggler]

Tez:
A good friend of mine was recently considering purchasing a Cobra boat. However after I advised him of your Customer Service problems he has decided to look at different brands this week at the boat show...Thanks for the info Foss75. Does this count as damages to the company? If your buddy hadn't heard about what a dickwad the fella was at Cobra, would he have actually purchased? Just wondering...

[Back To Havasu]

Have any of you on the boards who have been ripped off by boat manufacturers considered getting together against a specific manufacturer and calling upon the TV investigative journalists/consumer advocates to ask these bozos to respond on television to your charges. Most So. Calif. stations have these investigative reporters, and if you can persuade one of them to carry your banner, it is much much more effective and cheaper than litigation. Most companies shrug off another lawsuit, but are terrified of bad publicity. Just a thought. wink

[sandblasted]

One of the reasons I go to the boat shows every year is to see how the reps/salespeople deal with me when I ask them stupid questions about their boats and setups.
I've always had some good interaction with the guys at Howard, Ultra, and Essex...and after tuesday I can add Hallett to my list. They are willing to talk "boats" not just try and make deals...hell, they know their product sells on it's own anyway.
What does this have to do with Cobra?
Like i said it was slow...We eventually made it around to the Cobra display, boats looked nice, real similar to Ultras..hey, most of them are Ultra molds anyway...
so my buddy and I are looking at the boats, we're the only 2 people in the area by the way...and the cobra salesman is talking on his cell phone..No big deal, I can look at boats for awhile then ask questions..but this guy never gets off the phone...he just keeps yacking away...I walk a little closer and overhear him say, "It's real slow today but i made alot of deals over the weekend so it should make up for it"..
DEALS! He sounded just like a used car salesman..
You wonder why people are loyal to certain brands it's because they are treated like valued "customers" not just deals...
Screw Cobra, I'd never buy one of their boats, new or used...

[Mohavekid]

Posted by Diggler "Does this count as damages to the company? If your buddy hadn't heard about what a dickwad the fella was at Cobra, would he have actually purchased? Just wondering..."
Diggler, the loss of that sale could constitute damages for which Foss could be liable for if he was found to have defamed Cobra.
Riverdave, you're right, Foss could sue Cobra for Malicious Prosecution if they sued him and lost. The problem is he would have to pay to defend the defamation lawsuit and win it, then he would have to pay to prosecute his Malicious Prosecution case. Lawyers and litigation cost lots of $$$$$.
In a perfect world, truth and justice would prevail. The sad truth is that in reality, $$$$ play a much more prominent role than truth.
Just and FYI. frown

[bordsmnj]

yeah getting snubbed like that sucks. I walked on to "someones" lot a couple months ago and they didn't stop waxing or even look in our dirrection. Stood there looking real interested at this 21'+ boat. I gave 'em ten minuets and nothing.No one else there either. didn't like the vibe. Come to find out thier boats kinda suck anyway! :D bought ours from cool poeple instead.
[ February 20, 2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: bordsmnj ]

[Kilrtoy]

SANDBLASTED
That is too funny.
I was there the day the show opened, it was NOON, it just opened. It was not even busy, we were at the COBRA booth and there were a few other perspective customers in their booth. But the guy there was too busy to walk up to us and ask us if we needed help,because, HE WAS TOO BUSY SCREWING AROUND WITH SOME BLOND IN SHORT WHITE SHORTS. Most everyone that was there left before I did and I never saw one single person help anyone, let alone me. NICE. I don't know anyone that owns a COBRA, now I know why........

[JetBoatRich]

Most of the salesmen were great and went out of there way to say hello and make sure if we had questions just ask. Hallett guys were great, showed off there boats inside and out. Even asked our opinon on the new boats. Real good feeling :D

[sandblasted]

JetBoatRich:
Most of the salesmen were great and went out of there way to say hello and make sure if we had questions just ask. Hallett guys were great, showed off there boats inside and out. Even asked our opinon on the new boats. Real good feeling :D Rich, my buddy and I spent a good half hour at the Hallett booth just talking boats with the saleman and checking out their 21ft' boat. Thats what I'm talking about...Spent alot of time at Rex, CP Performance and Place diverter talking with them too...I really enjoyed getting to talk with people who know their stuff..
My experience with cobra was the only negative...
Hell, I don't want the payment on a $50,000 boat anyway but if I did cobra would not get my money.

[JetBoatRich]

Greg your right about those guys. Hallett sales crew showed all there boats and really knew their stuff. They did everything but start the thing up.

[River Ric]

Foss, Your the worst kind of customer. Your the kind if someone got down and kissed your ass, you'd just fart in his face. I know who you are and you're full of CRAP!!! I was at the Ultra Boats of Montclair before Jeff went off on his own to make Cobra. Can't blame a guy for going off on his own. You came in and just made an ass out of yourself. I have been in sales all my life and people like you give those of us that try to give good customer service a really pain in the ass. You don't even have a Cobra, you have an Ultra that you got from the guys in San Diego. I have know these guys as a Happy, well taken care of customer for over 10 years. I have several friends that have chosen a Cobra after spending the weekend with us at the river. They too have be kept very happy. I have been on this forum for less then a year and have read so much petty ass "B S" that I am sick of all of you primidonna's. Half of you probably have Bayliners anyway so why should I give a crap about your opinnions. I haven't been online for a while after the last bicth session from some moron.I let my brother who is an attorney read some of the crap you have written Foss. He said he is busy for the next couple of months but can probably give you a good referral. Good luck to all of the Snobs. pig_flyi argue burningm burningm burningm

[mbrown2]

Please get me a beer, and pass me the popcorn...and don't spill any on my bayliner. :)

[River Ric]

I also thouight of something else. I glad I'm not a boat salesman. That way, you guys that think we get paid for answering all of your stupid questions won't be a pain in my ass. Sales people get paid for answering smart questions from interested and potential customers, not idiots who want to just waste our time. This is for all of you wannabe's who don't care about anyone else but them selves. I'm out of this place. The air is beginning to stink again. sleeping sleeping sleeping

[Jordy]

Mohavekid:
Diggler, the loss of that sale could constitute damages for which Foss could be liable for if he was found to have defamed Cobra.
In a perfect world perhaps. In the real world, it would come down to proof such as a positive ID and financial ability, intent to purchase, proof that the sale was in fact lost. The internet creates a whole new realm of proof in the courtroom as it would be easy to log on here with a new identity, or even several identities, if I were a builder and allege (I hate that ****ing word) that I had lost business to one or even several clients, especially if the courts were to look at these posts in prima facia. Fortunatly, it doesn't work that way. It all comes down to real damages and real lost deals that can be proven. Business trends from the last several months or even years can be called under subpoena to prove or disprove these suppopsed deals.
In a nutshell, it would be really hard for a builder to sue someone who posted on these boards with substantiated facts of an experience for posting the events of that deal.
Just my $.02.
Jordy :D

[Jordy]

River Ric:
I also thouight of something else. I glad I'm not a boat salesman. That way, you guys that think we get paid for answering all of your stupid questions won't be a pain in my ass. Sales people get paid for answering smart questions from interested and potential customers, not idiots who want to just waste our time. From one salesman to another, with that attitude it sounds as though it's a good thing you don't have to deal with people. Stick with the dogs, they must not seem to mind that kind of an arrogant attitude and you must have the ability to please all your customers. :D
[ February 20, 2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: jordanpaulk ]

[mbrown2]

River Ric, does your opinion represent the view of Cobra?
In addition, I would disagree on your assessment of a salesman's responsibility. Boat Buyers come from all walks of life, and a salesman needs to answer questions of all types and experiences.
The salesperson who sold me my boat; showed up on a day they were closed to meet me and show me the boats, it was also the day after he had just had a 100K+ customers boat stolen from his shop. He also spent hours with me showing me the boats, answering all my dumb question, letting my brother scour through the t-shirts and hats closet, and keeping his significant other there who also entertained my nieces....he sold me a boat that day answering my dumb questions, and me wasting his time...and next time I need a boat, I will again go back to Dave at DCB who doesn't mind me wasting his time...
Also, when I get tired of people, I too will get a job selling Dog Food...last time I checked they don't ask dumb questions :)
[ February 20, 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: mbrown2 ]

[beyondhelpin]

I'm out of this place. The air is beginning to stink again.
Dont let the door hit you in the ass.

[El Chingon]

I guess I won't be buying my next bayliner from river ric. cry

[JetBoatRich]

River Ric, you look like the ass now. The stink you smell is stuck on your from one of your clients.
I think a different approach should have been taken and maybe we might listen :)

[Mandelon]

The air is beginning to stink again.
I think I know why!!!!!
Customer Service......Nice. Maybe the phone company is hiring...then you could call me during dinnertime every night!

[superV]

Hey if you think River Ric is a Dick Tell him over and over and over! :D mailto:ricbir@earthlink.net
River Ric is a dick a big fat dick! River Ric is a dick a big fat dick! River Ric is a dick who likes fat dog dick! :D and so on you get it...

[JetBoatRich]

SUPERV, that had me LMAO :D

[Seadog]

A salesman is by definition, someone who waste time and money for a small chance of a profit. A good salesman knows he is wasting his time, but keeps his poise because a boat is sold by a trust of the dealer as much as the value of the boat itself.
[ February 21, 2003, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: Seadog ]

[Kilrtoy]

Wow,
I'm glad the boat company that sold me the boat never thought the questions I asked were stupid. I spoke with them for a year on the phone before they ever met me. When they met me I showed up in a piece of shit car and looked like I didnt have a penny to my name. They still treated me like I was king of the world. They spent two hours talking to me about the boat from beginning (55 GALLON DRUMS)and all my STUPID QUESTIONS to the end, finally product. They never hageled the price, they gave me the best they felt they could, which was far less than I even expected. They still treat me like king of the world as they do each and ever customer, That why I bought a SHOCKWAVE.

[hot_diggity_dog]

Hey if you think River Ric is a Dick Tell him over and over and over! mailto:ricbir@earthlink.net SuperV That is cracking me up :p :D :p :D
HDD :cool:

[diggler]

Is it fair to assume that RiverRic is representative of Cobra Boat's customer service? If so, then we can safely assume they are not even aware they have a problem their own sales and services.
As a result, e.g. this thread, they can't understand why everyone hates them, and instead lashes out at no one in particular to make a flawed argument as to why they shouldn't deal with the DUMB customers and their STUPID-ASS questions.
Hell, I guess I'm saying they don't even know they have a problem and that it's our fault for being so stupid.
Conclusion:
I won't be buying a Cobra.

[twistedpair]

Wow pRIC, does Cobra have any idea what a thoughtful and literate spokesman they have in you? I'll bet this is just the kind of goodwill and customer rapore they had in mind for their (not yours right?) business. I know that your comments have instilled new confidence in me regarding Cobra and friends.
But, we're all just Bayliner driving Primadonna's, so who cares, right pRIC? You know what Bayliner drivers are pRIC? They're entry level boaters who will probably someday step up to something like a Cobra, because from any other boat, it would be a step down. Of course, customer service wise, the Bayliner owner may have to lower their standards also. :rolleyes:
[ February 21, 2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: twistedpair ]

[hot_diggity_dog]

Is it fair to assume that RiverRic is representative of Cobra Boat's customer service? If so, then we can safely assume they are not even aware they have a problem their own sales and services. This is what is say's in his profile.
Sales Mgr. Canidae Pet Foods
HDD :cool:

[Seadog]

I wonder if RiverRic is french?

[THOR]

It amazes me that this thread is still going. Makes me wonder about the power of advertising.

[C2]

Tough nut to crack for Cobra, but probably not a laughing matter. The burden of proof would be on Cobra’s shoulder. They would have to prove “actual malice”, meaning they would have to prove that you knew your statements were false (before you made them); or that you made them to intentionally harm the company (knowing they were false), or that you displayed a reckless disregard for the truth.
If the letter you received is from a firm that specializes in intellectual property law, there should be a key component in it. If it’s not there and I don’t see it here, then chances are the letter was written by a general practitioner and he/she might have already dropped the ball. Check your pm.
“If you wouldn’t publish it in a newspaper, then you shouldn’t say it on the Internet” seems to be the popular catch-phrase for posting questionable material on the net.
Hope it helps,
C2

[Mohavekid]

jordanpaulk:
Mohavekid:
Diggler, the loss of that sale could constitute damages for which Foss could be liable for if he was found to have defamed Cobra.
In a perfect world perhaps. In the real world, it would come down to proof such as a positive ID and financial ability, intent to purchase, proof that the sale was in fact lost. The internet creates a whole new realm of proof in the courtroom as it would be easy to log on here with a new identity, or even several identities, if I were a builder and allege (I hate that ****ing word) that I had lost business to one or even several clients, especially if the courts were to look at these posts in prima facia. Fortunatly, it doesn't work that way. It all comes down to real damages and real lost deals that can be proven. Business trends from the last several months or even years can be called under subpoena to prove or disprove these suppopsed deals.
In a nutshell, it would be really hard for a builder to sue someone who posted on these boards with substantiated facts of an experience for posting the events of that deal.
Just my $.02.
Jordy :D Jordy, you're right. In a perfect world the builder could not file or win a lawsuit over this kind of thing.
The sad reality is that a lawsuit can be filed, and could in all likelyhood survive to a trial. At trial, the proof you mentioned would be presented to a jury. The jury would decide if they really had a loss. A civil trial requires a minimum of 9 of the 12 jurors to agree.
The costs to get a case like this to a courtroom and a jury are huge. Just attorneys fees at $100 to $200 per hour (cheap in todays world) would run into many thousands of $$$$$. The time to respond to the lawsuit, send out discovry, review discovery, prepare for and attend depositions, court status conferences and hearings all cost $$$$.
Could Foss win? Sure he could, but to do so, it would cost him a shitload of cash.
Just my .02.
[ February 21, 2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: Mohavekid ]

[B-rad502]

The best way to battle this as a builder would be to give killer service to your customers, answer any questions on these boards to stand behind their companies, and NOT threaten people with law suits. If some of these people had just been taken care of, this would not be an issue. These people are spending a lot of dough on these new boats, if the builder has to take some $$ in the shorts once in a while to keep a customer happy, then so be it. It's the price of doing business and keeping people happy. As we've seen, word of mouth among boaters travels VERY quickly.

[TrojanDan]

twistedpair
You know what Bayliner drivers are pRIC? They're entry level boaters who will probably someday step up to something like a Cobra, because from any other boat, it would be a step down. [/QB]Hey Twisted, I guess you've never driven a Bayliner before. Bought by Bayliner new in '95 and just sold it a few months ago for $8500. It was one of the funnest boats ever. Never had to dick with anything. Just put gas in and go. Sure I wasn't the coolest boat out there but at least I was out there. I guess if I wanted to be cool and put down all that jack in '95 for another boat, I wouldn't have been able to build my house in Havasu and "step down" to my 29' Magic. :D .

[TrojanDan]

Who is RiverRic anyways??? :confused:

[Jordy]

Mohavekid:
The costs to get a case like this to a courtroom and a jury are huge. Just attorneys fees at $100 to $200 per hour (cheap in todays world) would run into many thousands of $$$$$. The time to respond to the lawsuit, send out discovry, review discovery, prepare for and attend depositions, court status conferences and hearings all cost $$$$.
Could Foss win? Sure he could, but to do so, it would cost him a shitload of cash.I totally agree. That's why so many of the bullshit lawsuits against big corporations just get settled out of court. It's cheaper for them to just pay and write it off as a cost of doing buisness than to try and defend themselves with a team of liars, oops, lawyers and accessories (clerks, investigators, discovery, depositions, et al.) ringing in at thousands of dollars an hour. It's sad what the system has turned into.

[Jordy]

TrojanDan:
Who is RiverRic anyways??? :confused: Some kind of star salesman who is glad, as we are, that he sells to dogs and not people. :D

[AZKC]

Mohavekid, Yuba City, My dad lives on George Washington Blvd, what a great area water everywhere. My bro raced MX at the 10th St Bridge.
KC

[OC-PARTYCAT]

What the hell is wrong with a Bayliner??? ok, even if they are an entry level boat, and most people would not buy them, I still have just as much respect for the guy driving the Bayliner as I do to the guy in the 42' Fountain. Who gives a shit what anyone is in..as long as they are on the water..thats what counts. Is there anyone that disagrees??
As far as the stupid questions by customers..well, that just comes with the territory of sales doesnt it? That guy asking stupid questions probably has a pocket full of cash!
Its all about the customer service. Believe me when I say, It would cost Cobra less money if they gave you a whole new boat instead of sueing you. If I was the owner of Cobra, I would fix your boat, and make you happy. Lets say he gave you a new boat instead of sending you shitty letters. You posted the story. Everyone would start praising Cobra. He would probably sell ten boats because of that investment to you. It looks like the right thing to do to me.
Step up to the plate Cobra...make the investment and you wont be sorry. Or you can send shitty letters and get your name dragged through the dog shit more until youve had enough?? decisions...decisions....
Dean (premaddona..wanna be cool ***boater) :D :D

[twistedpair]

Hey TrojanDan, not baggin' on production boats at all, in fact My 95 Reinell 2400 is anything but custom. Just tryin to make pRIC eat some of his own words. I do consider my boat "entry level" and would like to step up to a Shockwave.

[OC-PARTYCAT]

It seems to me that at least 50% of all custom boat builders could use the assistance of a consultant. They could learn how to treat the customer. Get organized to where a boat would cost probably 30% less to build, and increase sales. Anyone looking for a job? The custom boat industy needs your help!! I could name a few companies but...They would sue me for slander...what a ****in joke. What the hell is this world becoming?

[Mohavekid]

AZKC, Yeah, lot's of water up here.
It's nothing like the real river though.

[mbrown2]

OC-PARTYCAT:
It seems to me that at least 50% of all custom boat builders could use the assistance of a consultant. They could learn how to treat the customer. Get organized to where a boat would cost probably 30% less to build, and increase sales. Anyone looking for a job? The custom boat industy needs your help!! I could name a few companies but...They would sue me for slander...what a ****in joke. What the hell is this world becoming? Agree with you 100%...in the IT business, these guys seem like the old IBM or other large companies that had no clue, and just expected you to kiss their ass to get their business...They need some serious help from the top down on how to run their business...Quality Assurance in the Manufacturing area being 1st and Customer Service being second...if the boat was built right to begin with, the customers would not be upset, but if something does go wrong, they know how to deal with. Also, building the boat the first time right is the cheapest way.

[DaytonaU]

I have been reading these forums for a long time regarding cobra boats . And I feel that I should tell my experiances with Jeff . Back in 1997 I decided to buy a new boat and after looking at a couple different manufacters I decided TO Buy a ULTRA from Jeff and it was nothing but a positive experiance.And if there were Any problems with the boat they were always fixed right and on time .and When we would be at the river freinds and family would comment on how nice a boat it was . So when my friend Wade decided to buy a boat he went to Jeff, then my cousin Scott bought a boat he got it from Jeff ,then my freinds Bud and lou also purchesed one from him . And by the way Jeff bohn also gave me 500.00 in parts and service for every referal I gave him . and also a couple years later I even bought a used 21 ft daytona from him WITH NO PROBLEMS.. So basicly I find it hard to beleive that with all of these happy cust. that I personally know , that Jeff did not do everything he could to make FOSS happy.I also still take both of my boats to COBRA for service and repair. and I DO NOT WORK FOR COBRA AND HAVE NOT SPOKEN WITH JEFF FOR CLOSE TO 6 MONTHS AND IF JEFF WOULD MAKE A 21 FT TUNNEL BOAT I WOULD BUY ANOTHER BOAT FROM HIM And by the way his salsman Hernando is a MOROON

[bordsmnj]

come on ,yuh gotta spell moron right. :D

[Mandelon]

Moroon is from the old Bugs Bunny cartoons...its a legit put down.

[bordsmnj]

oops, my bad
bords(not so funny)mn(so sue me)j
[ February 21, 2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: bordsmnj ]

[bordsmnj]

oh, props to you mandelon for making laugh my @$$ off tonight.you've been posting some funny sh*% all over these threads tonight! :cool:

[Mandelon]

I please to aim! I just wish I was out having fun and not sitting in front of the computer hanging out with you moroons!!! :D

[JetBoatRich]

Mandelon is on a roll, what a maroon
[ February 21, 2003, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: JetBoatRich ]

[Kwicherbichen]

I may end up sounding like a jackass for adding my comments but here it goes.
First off, some of us have been down this road in the past. A guy (without a listed email address & low post count) start accussing company xyz of being a big piece of shit and provides no real evidence about why. Anyone remember that one?
I can't say whether or not Foss is being straight up or just feeding us a line of stuff? Does anyone actually know Foss? Perhaps Cobra's service isn't top notch, I don't know I've never bought one. I know a few folk that have and they are pleased as punch with what they got. Does that mean every deal goes right, nope. I would also guess that most of us here haven't owned a Cobra so we can't really say either. Trust me, anyone that knows me knows I don't even know who Jeff is so I don't have anything bad or good to say about the company.
Since I've never bought a new boat can someone explain what is on the contract? Does it list the exact motor, drive, etc....?
I would ask Foss75 this though, do you have a file number for your complaint at the BBB? How about some legal paper work related to your alegations? Perhaps a case number from your court case against Cobra? Maybe even the original contract you signed when you bought that lemon boat? How come you don't list any personal information in your profile? It's not that I expect everyone to do that but, come on, your saying whatever you want about a company but don't have the fortitude to let anyone know who you are. Hopefully you won't take my skeptical attitude personally. I don't know you and I'm sure you are a decent person like the rest of the folks here but, we've been down this road before.
Lastly, if Cobra is so damn bad, how do they stay in business? It can't be because they **** everyone over, that shit spreads quicker than fire.

[hot_diggity_dog]

Since I've never bought a new boat can someone explain what is on the contract? Does it list the exact motor, drive, etc....? Well KB,
At Cheetah it all starts out in the break room when Cheetah Bob grabs a napkin or paper towel to write on. :rolleyes:
Then it goes something like this. eek!
Oh you want one of those, he scribbles something down. :confused:
Which motor would you like, he scribbles something down. :confused:
Then you ask him for all of the extra's, once again he scribbles something down. :confused:
You give him a design to lay-up. eek!
And Bingo you have a boat. :D
Basically cutting thru all the Bullshit. whether it's on a napkin or a typed contract YOU NEED TO GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!!!!!!!!
Did I say "YOU NEED TO GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING"!!!!!!!!
Pictures and number's out of catalogs are a big plus, I gave Bob number's out of the Eddie Marine Catalog for every cleat, bezel, Exhaust, external steering etc.
I even gave him a complete diagram and location for the stereo.
I also recommend going down once a week as I had to correct them at least 4-5 times for doing it wrong or putting in the wrong shit
Pay attention and you will be fine.
Ready team go out and spend your cash and buy a boat.
My .02
HDD :cool:

[sandblasted]

This thread gets better and better...
I don't know Foss or Jeff Bohn...
For all I know Jeff is a nice guy and a ethical business man. My experience with Cobra boats is based on my visit to their booth at the L.A. boat show...
I just figure if I'm going to give $50,000 to a boat builder I'll give it to a salesman who is willing to talk to me at a boat show and not ignore me while he chit chats with his girlfriend on his cell phone. frown

[Jordy]

sandblasted:
I just figure if I'm going to give $50,000 to a boat builder I'll give it to a salesman who is willing to talk to me at a boat show and not ignore me while he chit chats with his girlfriend on his cell phone. :( This seems to be an ongoing trend in this thread and others...

[sandblasted]

jordanpaulk:
sandblasted:
I just figure if I'm going to give $50,000 to a boat builder I'll give it to a salesman who is willing to talk to me at a boat show and not ignore me while he chit chats with his girlfriend on his cell phone. :( This seems to be an ongoing trend in this thread and others... Yep, I think that about sums it up...Look, all builders want to sell their boats...but i just get the feeling that cobra is looking for a one time deal. So many other builders seem to know that if they treat you right when you ask stupid questions, then treat you right when you buy a 21ft boat, you just may come back a few years later and step up to a larger model..
Most of the custom boat builders make nice boats...I like Cobra's boats. They look well made and the gel coats were nice...
but the saleman turned me off and that's enough for me to spend my money elsewhere.

[Mandelon]

Should we print this thread and mail it to Cobra? :confused:

[Jordy]

Yeah, just don't sign it or put any kind of address as you don't want to get one of those leters... :D

[River Ric]

I'm gone for the weekend and everyone misses my whole point. I really appreciate all of the nice comments and replies when all I was doing was sticking up for a company that has taken good care of me. First I have no affiliation with Cobra, other then being a happy customer. Second, you guys missed my point, about the "dumb questions " idea. Slandblasted himself said" that he goes to the boat shows every year and see's how the salesman react to his dumb questions." Why would you go and play those kind of games with people. I get dozens of e-mail everyday, some tough questions and some not so tough.I was always told that their is no suck thing as a DUMB quetion if you don't know the answer, but to waste your time and someone else's time just seems, I don't know, DUMB. You guys should be asking these guys the important quetions.We spend a lot of money on these toys. I think that most custom boat companies today make an exceptional product. When I bought my new boat last year I went and talked to almost everyone out there. Hallet, Eliminator, Howard, Lavey and Ultra, which was the last boat that I had. 10 yrs of satisfied boating. I gave Cobra the shot because they were new and I liked what I saw and heard from others that had bought one. One person says something and you guys just start dumping on them with just an e-mail. New companies usually will work twice as hard for the customers because they have to find a way to get in the game. The company I work for is the same. I have tried to do the best for my customers for last 20 years. I know that I haven't been able to please everyone. We all wish we could. We can only do our best.It just seems that everyone hear seems to want to dump on anyone that they can. That dosen't seem right. Just look at all great replies that I got from everyone. Life is to short to sweat the little stuff and my dad says it's all little stuff. I never intended to piss anyone off, just to get people to listen, not react. You guys want to think that Cobra is a piece of %$#*&, you are intitled. This is America.I deal with my customers every week.9 States with over 500 retailers.We are a consumable product. I have 367 different competitors.They all want a piece of the pie. My people are as happy with my product and my service as I am with Cobra Boats. If they weren't they would call me an tell me they had a problem, not e-mail all their friends and bag on me, like you guys did. Anyone feel free to drop a note. My e-mail was posted and I didn't hear from anyone over the weekend. ricbir@earthlink.net. :D :D :D

[River Ric]

I just realized that there was a second page of comments. I just wanted to say it sounded like everyone found their composure. My Bio info is listed. I'm used to being on the firing line. I have nothing to gain or to hide by my comments guys. Also, sorry for the Bayliner crack. I was pissed off and took the low road. My first boat was a 19' Seaswirl . You gotta star some where. Whoever said that if anyone made a crappy boat, this info would spred like wildfire was right. That goes for any product, not just boats. Thanks for letting me vent. Later!!!! :D :D :D :D

[Mandelon]

Its good to get other point of view. You are cool to stand up to the crowd. wink Most here just want the facts, and to be appreciated for throwing down so much money......
I think dumb questions just meant normal questions that salesmen hear all the time, not really dumb. eek! Like "which end is the front"? (that would be dumb). I think he was meant questions like "how fast does it go? How much is it"? Yadda Yadda Not dumb perse, but just really common.
[ February 24, 2003, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: Mandelon ]

[bordsmnj]

how much is it is a dumb question??? eek! WELL,now. I think i made an @$$ outa myself to just about everybout builder in so cal and a few that ain't :p

[Jordy]

I think the term "dumb question" is relative. Not everyone knows boats inside and out and sure, there maybe some questions they ask that should be obvious, but that shouldn't stop you from answering them because they should know it and you see their question as dumb. If they're looking at spending a load of money on a new boat I think any question they want to ask is totally relevant, no matter how obscure, and therefore deserves an answer, but that's just me.

[Kwicherbichen]

River Ric, I hope you didn't think I was refering to you when I commented about the lack of personal info. It was directed at Foss75. wink
I browsed around Cobra both times I was at the show this year and no one approached me to ask if I had any questions. I had the same experience last year at their display. They weren't the only ones that did that though. Most were that way. You just can't approach everyone, busy or not. The only display I walked up to and and got immediate attention was Advantage & a Kawasaki dealer (I was looking at the little motorcycle). I spent alot of time around Ultra and they were "Jonny on the spot" with anyone that I saw looking at a boat. They happen to have plenty of customer service people every time I was there.
The other thing is, I'm not one of those people that needs to be attacked at every booth I walk into. If I have a question, I'll ask.
The point of my original response to this post was, if Cobra is so bad how do they stay in business? It can't be because they rip everyone off or treat them badly. It costs thousands to set up the display they had. Plus they just introduced a new boat to the line up. A company that is complete crap just can't make those things happen and survive. Just my opinion.

[JetBoatRich]

Tough to keep on track with two different COBRA threads?

[Mandelon]

Rich, I know its hard for you, but please try to keep up. :rolleyes:

[JetBoatRich]

Mandelon:
Rich, I know its hard for you, but please try to keep up. :rolleyes: I am trying as hard as I can, I will work on taking notes.
[ February 24, 2003, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: JetBoatRich ]

[sandblasted]

River Ric:
Slandblasted himself said" that he goes to the boat shows every year and see's how the salesman react to his dumb questions." Why would you go and play those kind of games with people. ricbir@earthlink.net. :D :D :D I wouldn't call it playing games. I'd call it trying to make an informed opinion about a certain product I may buy some day. I'm sure I ask some stupid questions from time to time but I also ask pertinent questions regarding the boats and service provided by the builder. There is no "consumer reports" you can reseach before you buy a custom boat. There is only word of mouth, other people's experiences, maybe an article in ***boat and your own experiences.
One thing I saw at the boat show is that most of the custom builders make great boats..Cobra's looked just as well built. so one of the things thats going to make a difference for me as a buyer is how I am treated when I walk into their shop or their booth at a boat show...
I figure if the salesman doesn't have time to talk to me or answer my questions then he doesn't need my money either...

[Throttle]

I have been trying to keep up with this thread and found several things to comment on. It should be known that I am more than pleased with the boat we bought from Cobra as are several of our friends too! THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE HAS NEVER LET ME DOWN! A small mishap between shallow water, my prop and lower drive unit comes to mind. I called Jeff while returning from the river and he waited (after regular business hours)for me to come in and drop my boat off. He knew that he only had two days to do the repairs before we had another trip planned back to the river. The work was done on time and done right, not to mention some addional service requests.
This bandwagon bashing started because one Ultra customer took delivery of a boat that was not what he had been told it was. Obviously some communication problems somewhere? Regardless, this customer should have brought these discrepancies up before taking delivery of this boat. I do feel bad for this customer, none of us like to be mislead or misunderstood.
For those of you looking to buy a Cobra boat... We looked at several boats before making a decision... We are very pleased with our boat and the service we get from the crew at Cobra Performance Boats.
Oh yeah... by the way, this is not our first boat.
Throttle.