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HighRoller
08-28-2003, 05:32 PM
How the US Supreme court can vote to remove the ten commandments from a state courthouse?Did you know that in the courthouse where the supreme court resides there are no less than three similar monuments?I'm still trying to figure out how the ACLU will fight to the death for the rights of thong-wearing flamers to jiggle their asses in public during gay-day.BUT...they say the ten commandments must be removed because they are "offensive"...WTF???????????????

mike37
08-28-2003, 05:39 PM
just chang the name to from the ten commandments
to rules you should follow and it will be ok

mike37
08-28-2003, 05:41 PM
mike37:
just chang the name to from the ten commandments
to rules you should follow and remove the religus ref then it will be ok

HavasuBarney
08-28-2003, 05:53 PM
OK, I'll bite.
If the Ten Commanments are allowed in, don't we have to post the rules from all the other gods out there?

mickeyfinn
08-28-2003, 06:07 PM
Here we go again.....No sense in arguing this one. Fact is liberals just suck and would rather have a whole country of fags, drug addicts, welfare moms and derelict dads than take a chance at doing something that might actually promote a sense of right from wrong and responsibility. If people start to regain these two things they know they will all be out of work.

jlnorthrup122
08-28-2003, 06:24 PM
well high roller I look at it this way (trieng to say something clever without soundin like a retard) people in these modern states are to buisey worrieng about whats going on in everyone elses backyards instead of partaking in the posibilities that there own back yard has to offer thus getting jealous of the neighbor who has the sence to partake in the fruits of life and then make a big stink untill the neighbor no longer enjoys his or her activities ect. that the neighbor under atack stops partaking in the fruits of life and submits to the bulshit of the lifeless loosers! Just my .05 :D

HighRoller
08-28-2003, 06:46 PM
No.The court system,much less this country,was not founded by the beliefs of Buddhism.Every person in this country has the freedom to practice any religion they desire.But that doesn't change the fact that our country was formed on the tenants of the Christian religion and is governed by rules and laws derived from it instituted by men who lived by them.That's like saying you started a club of outboard guys on a lake which was on government property.It was known as weed whacker lake and was established as an outboard hangout.Pretty soon,however, a few jet and sterndrive guys start showing up and being the nice guy you are you allow them the freedom to use your lake.One day a jet guy complains that outboards offend him and you laugh. A week later the ACLU shows up and demands that all outboards be removed from the lake because it's a government property and next thing you know you can't use your outboard on the lake founded by your outboard club.Hey,wait a sec...I think as a person offended by outboards I need to call the ACLU and the EPA!!!!!!

HavasuBarney
08-28-2003, 06:51 PM
Slow down ther big boy, let's take this one step at a time... :)
It's not a fact that our country and court system were formed on the tenats of the Christian Religion.

superdave013
08-29-2003, 05:06 AM
HavasuBarney:
OK, I'll bite.
If the Ten Commanments are allowed in, don't we have to post the rules from all the other gods out there? I like your thinking Barney. Sometime today I'll try to post my rules! lol :D
Ok, not being a smartass this time. I'm all for seperation of church and state but.....
It seems like we have just a few other things to worry about right now.
[ August 29, 2003, 06:10 AM: Message edited by: superdave013 ]

Blown 472
08-29-2003, 05:07 AM
superdave013:
HavasuBarney:
OK, I'll bite.
If the Ten Commanments are allowed in, don't we have to post the rules from all the other gods out there? I like your thinking Barney. Sometime today I'll try to post my rules! lol :D
Ok, not being a smartass thist time. I'm all for seperation of church and state but.....
It seems like we have just a few other things to worry about right now. Like an economy that sucks, the shipping overseas of american jobs??

Catmando
08-29-2003, 06:10 AM
Highroller,
1. Read the First Amendment
2. Read it again
3. There is NO mention of a god in the Constitution
4. What if Moore was a Muslim or a Buddhist. Would you feel the same about the Muslim Ten, or the Buddhist Ten, etc.?

beached 1
08-29-2003, 06:29 AM
Ok I'll bite too.
So then should we remove
"In God We Trust" from the dollar?
Really, who gives a rats ass? If the 10 commandments were there or not. I say if it was there in the first place, then leave it alone. I'd rather our courts be concerned with more important issues instead of wether or not to have a friggin monument somewhere.

diggler
08-29-2003, 06:41 AM
beached 1:
Ok I'll bite too.
So then should we remove
"In God We Trust" from the dollar?
The word "God" in the court's opinion (not necessarily mine), is considered a generic title. Muslims have their "God", Judaism has their "God", Christians have their "God", Hindus have their "God", and so on...
Because there is no distinction between religious/cultural lines, it has been allowed to stay.
The 10 Commandments are a very specific icon of the judaio-christian religion. Someone had mentioned to me earlier, "well if they allow the 10 Commandments, then they should allow all other religious icons within each courthouse". It would be interesting to see Ganeesh, the God of Hinduism, posed next to the 10 Commandments.

OGShocker
08-29-2003, 06:52 AM
diggler:
beached 1:
Ok I'll bite too.
So then should we remove
"In God We Trust" from the dollar?
The word "God" in the court's opinion (not necessarily mine), is considered a generic title. Muslims have their "God", Judaism has their "God", Christians have their "God", Hindus have their "God", and so on...
Because there is no distinction between religious/cultural lines, it has been allowed to stay.Muslims, Jews and Christians believe in the same God, The Muslims follow the teachings of the warrior prophet Mohammad. The Christians followed the baby Jesus'(a Jew) teachings.
The problem I have with this deal in Alabama, is a problem with the Federal Govt' dictating control over a State's policy of dispaying any object period. They do not have that authority(from what I can see).
My .02

HavasuBarney
08-29-2003, 07:00 AM
I'm just wondering about all the other gods, should'nt we be allowed to hear from them?
Doesn't the first commandment say something like,
Thou shall put no other gods before me
Doesn't that imply there has to be other gods?
I know that sounds a bit like HH in the cocktails line but I just think it's a bit selfish. OK, maybe not a fair comparision, HH is normanlly happy to bring drinks for others also!
So then should we remove
"In God We Trust" from the dollar?No, they are talking about the Federal Reserve gods. You know the ones they pray to so they aren't held accountable....

diggler
08-29-2003, 07:23 AM
OGShocker:
diggler:
beached 1:
Ok I'll bite too.
So then should we remove
"In God We Trust" from the dollar?
The word "God" in the court's opinion (not necessarily mine), is considered a generic title. Muslims have their "God", Judaism has their "God", Christians have their "God", Hindus have their "God", and so on...
Because there is no distinction between religious/cultural lines, it has been allowed to stay.The problem I have with this deal in Alabama, is a problem with the Federal Govt' dictating control over a State's policy of dispaying any object period. They do not have that authority(from what I can see).
My .02 The First Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
This is a Federal issue as State courts do not have the jurisdiction to deal on this subject matter issue. Because the Federal Courts have "Binding Authority" over all lower courts, each State must follow the rule here. Here is our hierarchy of laws.
1. Constitution is our highest law
2. Statutes or ordinances
3. Administrative regulations
4. judge-made law

JustMVG
08-29-2003, 07:26 AM
Why do we put our right hand on the bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you/me god in court???? Where's the "Separation of church and state" ??

beached 1
08-29-2003, 07:34 AM
HavasuBarney:
No, they are talking about the Federal Reserve gods. You know the ones they pray to so they aren't held accountable.... Ah. Amen to them. The real gods! :D

OGShocker
08-29-2003, 07:48 AM
diggler:
OGShocker:
diggler:
beached 1:
Ok I'll bite too.
So then should we remove
"In God We Trust" from the dollar?
The word "God" in the court's opinion (not necessarily mine), is considered a generic title. Muslims have their "God", Judaism has their "God", Christians have their "God", Hindus have their "God", and so on...
Because there is no distinction between religious/cultural lines, it has been allowed to stay.The problem I have with this deal in Alabama, is a problem with the Federal Govt' dictating control over a State's policy of dispaying any object period. They do not have that authority(from what I can see).
My .02 The First Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
This is a Federal issue as State courts do not have the jurisdiction to deal on this subject matter issue. Because the Federal Courts have "Binding Authority" over all lower courts, each State must follow the rule here. Here is our hierarchy of laws.
1. Constitution is our highest law
2. Statutes or ordinances
3. Administrative regulations
4. judge-made law I think you make my point for me. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Congress did nothing here. Alabama placed a monument in a "State of Alabama" owned facility. The Judge did not establish a religion. The Federal Judge may have prohibited the free excercise of religion.
In quoting the Constitution the we must look deeper in to the "spirit of the laws" by reading the Federalist Papers. These are the backbone of the Constitution. Click here for more.. (http://memory.loc.gov/const/fed/fedpapers.html)

HavasuBarney
08-29-2003, 08:08 AM
MandMVG:
Why do we put our right hand on the bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you/me god in court???? Where's the "Separation of church and state" ?? I think it's raise your right hand...
IMO, the Judge IS GOD!

mirvin
08-29-2003, 09:19 AM
Hey guys, it's simple, like Catmando said, "read the first ammendment" There's a little somthin' called "Seperation of Church and State". It's what seperates us from the heathen masses. It makes it so we are able to set our differences aside and make rational decisions regarding the governing of our country.
It's amazing how quickly we're ready to set aside the laws of our land for something we want but not for something others may want. If we set the 1st ammendment aside for this, what good is the entire constitution?
The State can be in the Church, but the Church can't be in the State.

diggler
08-29-2003, 09:25 AM
MandMVG:
Why do we put our right hand on the bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you/me god in court???? Where's the "Separation of church and state" ?? That's a good question, I'll be the first to say I don't know why that is. I'll try to find out though.

twistedpair
08-29-2003, 09:38 AM
mirvin:
The State can be in the Church, but the Church can't be in the State. Not exactly.....
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
— The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Religion
The First Amendment prohibits government from establishing a religion and protects each person's right to practice (or not practice) any faith without government interference.
Seeing as how this country was founded by people fleeing religious persecution, I think that this is more to protect religion from the state, not the state from religion.

mirvin
08-29-2003, 09:38 AM
MandMVG
Why do we put our right hand on the bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you/me god in court???? Where's the "Separation of church and state" ?? The term "God" is not a specific term. It doesn't hold one sect or division higher than another. It's simply a reference point for something we hold sacred, somthing we are willing to use as collateral to insure honesty. It doesn/t say "So help me Jesus" or "So help me Buddha"
Again, these are example of the State being in the Church, as opposed to the Church being in the State.
Do we get upset when our President goes to Church?

JustMVG
08-29-2003, 10:21 AM
So then if a have to be "Sworn in" i could have the bible of my choice? It just seems hypocritcal to swear to something in a court of law, and weren't laws basically created by "God" in the first place?
Mike VG
What do Athiests do in that circumstance, swear to who/what?
I am not ignorant of the law or of the Constitution just questioning some of the absurdities brought on by some people.
[ August 29, 2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: MandMVG ]

mirvin
08-29-2003, 10:47 AM
Apples & Oranges people!

Catmando
08-29-2003, 03:13 PM
MandMVG:
Why do we put our right hand on the bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you/me god in court???? Where's the "Separation of church and state" ?? I will not swear a god oath in court. Used to be in Texas, before Madalyn Murray and her family protested, if you didn't swear, you didn't serve. Now, when I serve on Jury Duty, I make that clear right up front. They have no problems with that now.

OGShocker
08-29-2003, 04:04 PM
Catmando:
MandMVG:
Why do we put our right hand on the bible and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth so help you/me god in court???? Where's the "Separation of church and state" ?? I will not swear a god oath in court. Used to be in Texas, before Madalyn Murray and her family protested, if you didn't swear, you didn't serve. Now, when I serve on Jury Duty, I make that clear right up front. They have no problems with that now. Holy S**T, CMD serves on jurys.
I can here him now, "Kill that Republican jaywalker".!. and "Let that nice liberal, eco-terrorist, baby aborting, mass murderer go free, He knew not what he was doing.... He was a product of his enviroment. AC/DC's music made him do those things"
GOD save us ALL!

jus a baker
08-29-2003, 09:02 PM
twistedpair:
mirvin:
The State can be in the Church, but the Church can't be in the State. Not exactly.....
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
— The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Religion
The First Amendment prohibits government from establishing a religion and protects each person's right to practice (or not practice) any faith without government interference.
Seeing as how this country was founded by people fleeing religious persecution, I think that this is more to protect religion from the state, not the state from religion. true that.
no place that ive seen dose it say seperation of chuch and state, everything i have learned is this quote was only menitoned in a letter to Jefferson. as far as "what if we wanted to praise another god" sure.......if we were in another country that was not founded on christan values. but than again i dont go to church.

bordsmnj
08-29-2003, 09:21 PM
ok here's another .02 worth. i think they (our founding fathers) put that stuff up in the court house as a reminder of why you would be there in the first place! if you didn't kill your nieghbor, steel his wife,or otherwise act like an ass in general and there by break one of the ten commandments there would be no trip to the court house needed. i think it just happends that moses was the one who said this stuff after god laid it to him. in other words if goerge washing ton was the one who penned the ten commandments they would still be in the court house with out all the bleeding heart liberal dueshe bags whinning about it. and i want everyone to know that while i'm posting this i'm luaghing so don't take me or my lack of spelling skills to seriously
[ August 29, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: bordsmnj ]