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View Full Version : Lemmon Law, anyone ever used it??



superdave013
02-24-2003, 08:48 AM
Chevy just can't seem to make my '01 Surban run.
It's had tons of problems and now it has a new one. The thing just shuts off when driving. It only happens it seems when my wife is on a busy freeway like the Orange crush @ 5:30PM. It did it to me leaving the boat show. Nice having your rig shut off a few times on the freeway in Downtown LA.
It's done it to the dealer too.
Anyway, does anyone have any tips on what to do? It seems the dealer is just taking shots in the dark replacing shit.
When I bring it up to the dealer they are like sure, you can trade it in but you are upside down in it and you will take a loss. All I want is a truck that runs. Is that to much to ask for?
I know there is some other dealers on the board here. Can you offer any advice?

Mandelon
02-24-2003, 08:52 AM
No personal experience, but I know the dealer has the opportunity to fix whats wrong a few times. You need to keep all service records. If you can show that the problems reoccur or the vehicle has lots of them, you can ask for a buyback under the lemon law.
Did you try an online search??? I bet there's instructions out there somewhere.

Jordy
02-24-2003, 08:54 AM
I did an internet search for auto lemon law and ended up with quite a few hits, most attorneys (imagine that), but here is the breakdown of the Cali Lemon Law:
The California "Lemon Law"
The California Lemon Law (officially known as the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty act, found in California Civil Code sections 1790 et seq.) is a law designed to protect consumers who purchase or lease warranted motor vehicles. If it is determined that a motor vehicle is a "lemon," the motor vehicle's warrantor must repurchase or replace the motor vehicle from the buyer.
In order to have a valid Lemon Law claim, the following elements must be met:
1.) The vehicle must be used some of the time for personal, family or household purposes. If a vehicle is used exclusively for business purposes, the Lemon Law will not apply, but other laws may provide certain remedies.
2.) The vehicle must have problems covered by a warranty. There is a simple rule: no warranty means no Lemon Law case.
3.) The warrantor must be unable to repair the vehicle's warranty problems after a reasonable number or repair attempts. What constitutes a reasonable number of repair attempts will vary depending on the problem. For example, if a vehicle's brakes fail, one repair attempt may be enough to establish a reasonable number. Generally, safety-related or driveability concerns will require fewer repair attempts than those which are not safety-related or affect driveability.
Also relevant to determining whether there has been a reasonable number of repair attempts is the number of days the vehicle is out-of-service due to warranty repairs. The more days out-of-service, the better the chance of establishing a reasonable number of repair attempts.
There is a common misconception concerning the Lemon Law, that it only applies to vehicles that are less than 18 months old or have less than 18,000 miles. This belief is not true! The Lemon Law will apply to a vehicle regardless of how old it is or how many miles is has, so long as the vehicle is having problems that are under warranty.
Even if the warranty has expired, the Lemon Law may apply. If the vehicle is still having problems that were complained about and never properly repaired during the warranty period, a valid Lemon Law claim may exist.
4.) The vehicle must contain a problem covered by the warranty that substantially impairs the vehicle's use, value or safety to the buyer/lessee. The Lemon Law, generally, will not apply to vehicles with trivial or minor defects. Nevertheless, each case must be judged independently taking into account the particular needs and expectations of the particular vehicle's owner/lessee.
If the above mentioned elements are met, the vehicle is a lemon. The vehicle's owner/lessee will be entitled to a replacement vehicle or a refund of the vehicle's purchase/lease price.

Mandelon
02-24-2003, 08:58 AM
The King is there for his people.... :D

superdave013
02-24-2003, 08:58 AM
Mandelon:
No personal experience, but I know the dealer has the opportunity to fix whats wrong a few times. You need to keep all service records. If you can show that the problems reoccur or the vehicle has lots of them, you can ask for a buyback under the lemon law.
Did you try an online search??? I bet there's instructions out there somewhere. Yes, I have every service record. They have done all the work. Even the oil changes.
This is their 3rd try fixing the shutting off thing. I told them it better be fixed this time because my wife's looking into the lemmon thing (it's her truck). They have had the truck for almost a week this time.
She has been looking online at stuff. I was hoping to hear from some of the dealers that are on the forums.

Jordy
02-24-2003, 08:58 AM
You might write a letter to the service department head guy. Explain the problems you've been experiencing and the fact that it's been to the dealer x number of times and the problem still isn't resolved. CC the letter to the general manager of the dealership and again to whoever GM has overseeing customer service issues in your region. Generally that kind of attention on multiple levels will ilicit a response. If nothing else, many liars, oops, lawyers offer free consultations and it never hurts to see what one of them have to say and go from there.

Jordy
02-24-2003, 09:00 AM
superdave013:
I was hoping to hear from some of the dealers that are on the forums. Ahhh, I see. We're not good enough for you SD. Well, that's fine. I'm taking my ball and I'm going home. frown

DogHouse
02-24-2003, 09:00 AM
I have an 01 with the 496, and had a crank position sensor go out. It would just die once in a while and then usually restart just fine. Finally it died for good while I had the trailer in the water retrieving the boat. Nothing like blocking a busy launch ramp for 2 hours waiting for a tow truck! Luckily it was a 10 lane ramp so we didn't cause too much of a problem.
-brian

superdave013
02-24-2003, 09:01 AM
Good info Jordy! Now I need to find out who to contact about it.

superdave013
02-24-2003, 09:02 AM
jordanpaulk:
superdave013:
I was hoping to hear from some of the dealers that are on the forums. Ahhh, I see. We're not good enough for you SD. Well, that's fine. I'm taking my ball and I'm going home. :( no no, you were very helpfull

Jordy
02-24-2003, 09:03 AM
You might even try something as simple as Chevrolet.com and send them an email, if they don't have a regional contact listed on the site. Just a thought. Now I'm going home. wink

superdave013
02-24-2003, 09:03 AM
DogHouse:
I have an 01 with the 496, and had a crank position sensor go out. It would just die once in a while and then usually restart just fine. Finally it died for good while I had the trailer in the water retrieving the boat. Nothing like blocking a busy launch ramp for 2 hours waiting for a tow truck! Luckily it was a 10 lane ramp so we didn't cause too much of a problem.
-brian they replaced that for another problem once already. Is your 496 an oil using pig like mine?

Jordy
02-24-2003, 09:06 AM
DogHouse:
Nothing like blocking a busy launch ramp for 2 hours waiting for a tow truck! Luckily it was a 10 lane ramp so we didn't cause too much of a problem.
-brian You can get killed for something like that at Saguaro or Bartlett with the smaller ramps... :D

BADAXE
02-24-2003, 09:11 AM
superdave013:
Chevy just can't seem to make my '01 Surban run.
It's had tons of problems and now it has a new one. The thing just shuts off when driving. It only happens it seems when my wife is on a busy freeway like the Orange crush @ 5:30PM. It did it to me leaving the boat show. Nice having your rig shut off a few times on the freeway in Downtown LA.
It's done it to the dealer too.
Anyway, does anyone have any tips on what to do? It seems the dealer is just taking shots in the dark replacing shit.
When I bring it up to the dealer they are like sure, you can trade it in but you are upside down in it and you will take a loss. All I want is a truck that runs. Is that to much to ask for?
I know there is some other dealers on the board here. Can you offer any advice? When you buy a new vehicle the dealer must give you a brochure that discloses the lemon law requirements in the state where it's purchased. It's usually stuffed in the back of the owners manual folder. Most importantly you should keep detailed records of occurances and attempted repairs incase you do have to go to court some day. The next thing is to start calling the dealerships owner and the General Motors customer service 800 number everytime you have a problem and document every call. And finally, consult with a lawyer that specializes in lemon law cases. There is a lot more vehicles being bought back by the manufacturers to avoid going to court than you could possibly imagine.
Feel free to email me if you need any help.

unleashed
02-24-2003, 09:15 AM
SuperDave, you have a great case as you issue is safety related. I would never want to stall out on a freeway with all the idiots driving in LA.
My brother used the lemon law about 5 years ago. He bought a brand new pontiac firebird. The same thing you have mentioned happened to him on several occasions the fist month. Each time he took it back they said the problem was fixed. Anyhow after the third time it happened again. Believe it or not the dealer was totally cool and gave him his money back due to the Lemon law(No lawyer was needed). I mean when it comes down to it if they dick with you, you could do the same thing that Jr. guy did at the boatshow and picket the dealership saying I bought my lemon from.....Im sure you get the picure. Goodluck.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) devil

Jordy
02-24-2003, 09:19 AM
Try the nice approach first of course, as they're always more willing to work with you if you're not screaming and threatening, but if it comes down to them not wanting to work with you, a little white shoe polish on the windows of the truck describing what a lemon you got from so and so dealership tends to get attention fast. I've seen "lemon" vehicles parked on trailers across the street from dealerships, going down the road with 4x8 plywood like a shark fin on the roof with all the problems and dealer responses on it. A little bad publicity goes a long way, especially with the auto market in the shape it's in right now. :D

superdave013
02-24-2003, 09:24 AM
Jordy, we have been very nice so far.
Oh, your sig is pretty funny. I guess lemmons are ok as long as your not driving it.

AZKC
02-24-2003, 09:39 AM
Jordy pretty much nailed it, I've been around dealerships to long and I'll bet the HMFIC at the dealership isn't aware of your concerns, get him involved. And the District Service Rep for Chevy also. The crank angle sensor sounds like the culprit unless they have allready tried that.
My.02
KC

Jordy
02-24-2003, 09:41 AM
AZKC:
Jordy pretty much nailed it I'm going to print this out and hang it on my wall. :D

058
02-24-2003, 09:42 AM
S-Dave, try doing a search for "hidden" warrantys. All mfgs have some sort of provision for problems that are only covered by these type of warrantys. A friend with a Crown Vic had a temp sensor come out of a composite [plastic] intake manifold and cooked the engine. Dealer said no warranty exists so owner paid dealer $5600.00 for a rebuilt engine installed only to find out later that Ford had many problems with this exact same prob and would cover all or most of the expense involved with these type of manifolds. They have since gone back to aluminum manifolds.

AZKC
02-24-2003, 09:52 AM
jordanpaulk:
AZKC:
Jordy pretty much nailed it I'm going to print this out and hang it on my wall. :D I should have put "but its been awhile"
BTW nice game saturday night :p
KC

Jordy
02-24-2003, 09:58 AM
AZKC:
I should have put "but its been awhile"
BTW nice game saturday night :p
KC Now that I live alone and don't have a girlfriend around, I seem to be right more often than ever before. :D
As far as the game, blah blah blah blah. Still better dead than blue and red.
Now stop hijacking SD's thread or he'll get mad and kick your ass. :D

DogHouse
02-24-2003, 12:36 PM
superdave013:
Is your 496 an oil using pig like mine? Not any more. Used several quarts in the first 2000 miles, then tapered off. Now the level doesn't move between oil changes, or at least not enough to notice. Sure likes gas though...

DogHouse
02-24-2003, 12:40 PM
jordanpaulk:
You can get killed for something like that at Saguaro or Bartlett with the smaller ramps... :D No kidding! That's when you jump out of the truck when nobody is looking and then stand on the sidelines pointing and making fun of the moron stuck on the ramp. Only saving grace that day was the fact that the cooler wasn't completely empty!
:D

Holland
02-24-2003, 12:55 PM
I had ford buy back a truck in 92 for lemon law. After filing my complaint, I had to go to an arbitration hearing where I had 10 min to explain my case. I had all the documents (Service repair attempts) in order. Went in to the meeting, said my speal and they said, thank you we will let you know by mail in about 10 days. 7 days later, I recieved a check and an address where to take the truck back to... I was satisfied!!!! then went to chevy and bought a real truck.. No problems ever again!!!!
Bob

24sleekenforcer
02-24-2003, 12:58 PM
Superdave what have they done to it so far. Have they checked fuel pump and all system grounds. What type of trouble codes if any

Dribble
02-24-2003, 01:05 PM
Don't write a letter to the service manager. Go meet with him and the shop foreman. Let them know that you will hold them responsible for anything that happens if your wife gets stuck. Tell them you want to get the factory involved. Make as much noise as possible. Believe me, they will now put their best drivability guy on it. They will start replacing more parts and they migh actually fix it by accident. The real problem is that the tech is a flat rate guy. He cares about spending .5 hrs on a one hr flat rate job and won't take the time to properly test drive the vehicle or do a complete diagnosis. Let the top guy know you're unhappy and you will get results.

spectras only
02-24-2003, 01:37 PM
SD , next time you'll have a shotdown with your burb , pop the hood open and pull one plug lead off.Insert a screwdriver in the lead [with a glove of course eek! ] and have a buddy crank the engine over to see if there's any spark.Chrysler's cherokees and ford's probes had problems with their crank trigger connectors building up too much resistance to drop the voltage just a few tenth's were the voltage cutoff to the computer occured.I know for fact ,the dealers found out the problem after thousands of cars having the same problem [silent warranty].Unfortunately this symptom is a recurring one for the older models ,so after the warranties gone ,they can soak you for ongoing troubleshootings and replacments :mad: .I've carried a contact cleaner [such as neutrol]in my 1990 cherokee and every 6 months pulled the connector [it's supposed to be water resistant:rolleyes:style]and gave it a shot.The more electronics they jam into these new vehicles ,the more can of worms we'll get to deal with .My 96 mustang GT has a 7 year silent warranty on the composite intake manifold that I had to replace once with a "REINFORCED" one.So far no other prob at 70.000 miles :) .It's BS ,the dealer can't find the problem.Maybe they should send their techs to a refreshing course on diagnostics :D

Schiada76
02-24-2003, 01:38 PM
I had to file a lemon law complaint with Ford years ago. The dealer ended up jerking me around of course so I had the problem fixed by a private party and sued them in small claims. I made out just fine :D and got the problem fixed to boot. It really helped in court that I went through the whole process with the lemon law though.

superdave013
02-24-2003, 01:40 PM
Holland:
I had ford buy back a truck in 92 for lemon law. After filing my complaint, I had to go to an arbitration hearing where I had 10 min to explain my case. I had all the documents (Service repair attempts) in order. Went in to the meeting, said my speal and they said, thank you we will let you know by mail in about 10 days. 7 days later, I recieved a check and an address where to take the truck back to... I was satisfied!!!! then went to chevy and bought a real truck.. No problems ever again!!!!
Bob Holland, who did you file the complaint with? Did you do it with Ford?

superdave013
02-24-2003, 01:47 PM
Dribble,
Good advice but I'm writing that in the letter and handing it to them when I go talk to them.
SpectraOnly, I'm not even ****ing with that. If I wanted to work on it I would have kept my old truck (that ran great BTW). I've had so much trouble with this one that I'm pretty much over it now.

Hermosa
02-24-2003, 01:51 PM
Burn it, end of problem... You should have kept the crew cab...

superdave013
02-24-2003, 01:56 PM
Hermosa:
Burn it, end of problem... You should have kept the crew cab... I know, that was a good old truck.
The surban is the wifes. I now drive a '96 Ford F150 with 197,000 miles. I got it cheep and it's real clean for the high milage. It's more reliable then the surban is.

AZKC
02-24-2003, 02:35 PM
DogHouse:
superdave013:
Is your 496 an oil using pig like mine? Not any more. Used several quarts in the first 2000 miles, then tapered off. Now the level doesn't move between oil changes, or at least not enough to notice. Sure likes gas though... I've heard of a new PCV valve for the oil consumpiton problem from a friend that works at a GMC dealer.
KC

v-drive
02-24-2003, 03:09 PM
SD, In 94 I bought a 93 gmc from Joe MacPherson
in Irvine. Still under warranty I started having bottom end problems. There service dept kept saying it was my imagination(yeah right)and I was getting nowhere with them at all. in 1990 I used an arbitration with Dodge and got screwed.
Anyway instead of doing that I simply went to another dealer, I think Connel and told them I bought the truck privately and I thought there was a problem. They looked at the truck and advised me that GM had a crank flaw and in fact that's what was wrong with my truck. I took all of this back to Joe M and asked to speak with the general manager and at that time told him all I had gone through and how his people had lied to me. He simply asked what I wanted and he took care of it. I ended up with a much nicer truck.
:cool: V-drive