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Ziggy
09-30-2003, 04:25 PM
For those of you who have to register a car after the increase..please read and use info as you wish. It's from local Senator Bill Morrow. I thought it good to pass along this for you all.
Don't forget to VOTE either!!
Zig
File for Car Tax Refund
Date:
Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:30:17 -0700
From:
"ro257" <ro257@cox.net>
To:
----- Original Message -----
From: Senator Bill Morrow
To: subscribers@sen.ca.gov
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:56 AM
Subject: File for Car Tax Refund
If you have been forwarded this message and would like to subscribe to future publications or you wish to no longer receive future
publications please visit this page.
File for Car Tax Refund
Dear Fellow Car Owner,
Governor Gray Davis recently tripled the Car Tax that all California drivers pay to register their vehicles. The 300% hike kicks in this October. On average, this tax increase, which I believe is illegal, will cost car
owners over $150 annually.
The Car Tax increase is not right, not fair and not legal In fact, I have joined in a lawsuit to overturn it. My goal is to keep your vehicle registration fees low. The courts, however, will take some time to hear the
case. In the meantime, steps may be taken to reserve your refund.
Attached is a link to the Department of Motor Vehicle's (DMV) official refund form. By sending this form in when reregistering your car, you will be telling the DMV that you want a refund once a court decision
is returned in favor of California drivers.
To complete the process:
1.Click hereDMV Refund (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/adm/adm399.pdf) and complete the refund form for each of your vehicles;
2.Click "other" in box 11 and insert, "Tripling Car Tax is Illegal. Pursuant to the lawsuit (case # HJTA v. DMV, Sac Co. Sup. Ct. No. 3ASO3665) to overturn this tax, I request a refund;"
3.Mail the completed form with your registration renewal after October 2003;
4.Save a copy of the refund form, your check and DMV bill for your records.
By submitting your claim, you are reserving your refund. Don't be discouraged if your refund is immediately denied because it will take a year or more to overturn the tax. Your request will be kept on file.
Best regards,
Senator Bill Morrow
THE TRIGGER PULLED - THE CAR TAX IS GOING UP
To read a legal opinion on the car tax click here. - (PDF Document)
Contact Senator Morrow:
Senator.Morrow@sen.ca.gov
Capitol Office:
Carlsbad Office:
San Juan Capistrano Office:
State Capitol, Room 4048
2755 Jefferson St., #101
27126-A Paseo Espada, #1621
Sacramento, CA 95814
Carlsbad, CA 92008
San Juan Capistrano, CA 92675
Phone: (916) 445-3731
Phone: (760) 434-7930
Phone: (949) 489-9838
[ September 30, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Ziggy ]

Chris Winn
09-30-2003, 04:42 PM
they just sent us the bill for our 2003 H2, and it is $1,200.00. i have about crapped myself over this, but i would use the refund to buy Gray davis a ticket to live any where but Ca or Az!.
just my .02 worth!

THATJEFFGUY
09-30-2003, 05:37 PM
I just got mine for the Excursion..$985. I feel like sending a copy of my renewal to that P.O.S Gray Davis' office and tell them to pay the f'n thing. He doesn't have a DMV registration to pay since he is given a car by the state..so he can pay mine !!

Dave C
09-30-2003, 06:26 PM
Can I request a refund on my governor? I think I paid too much for Grey-out Davis.
Ooppsss... never mind. He'll be gone next week....

Kilrtoy
09-30-2003, 08:12 PM
This is the same price as 99, it was simply lowered, called given you a break and now it was returned to its original place. It never tripled. For your info, you can already write off your car VLF every year when you due your taxes......

RJ Nordic
09-30-2003, 08:32 PM
Kilrtoy, You can write it off as a deduction, it isn't a credit. :( You still have to pay now. My 03 Surburban is due 10/8 for almost $900 what a f#@king rip off. burningm
I'm going to apply for the refund first thing, also the wife and I are voting together next Tuesday. By By GD
I hope when the SOB goes on the lecture circut, no one pays the freight. His political career is dead. :p

Kilrtoy
09-30-2003, 08:52 PM
In 99 my new expedition was $800, the next year 2000 they gave me a break and it was $325. Granted it sucks and I agree with that, but if you dont want to pay expensive taxes dont buy expensive things......
This year my 02 supercrew is 325 and that includes weight fees, next year it will be 900 or so yes it sucks, but I knew that when I bought it.....
And yes the above line for all you CHEBY GUYS refers to the fees paid..... :D

TRIMDOG
09-30-2003, 08:57 PM
BOTTOM LINE- 99 rates, 2001 rates, 2003 rates= All WAY too f$cki'n high. Especially compared to nearly all other states. Cali is being bled dry, and vehicles have little or nothing to do with it.
The governator will tax the casinos, and banish Joe Davis into the working world for the first time in decades. With that haircut he'd probably do well in gay porn. Just my.02

NorCal Gameshow
10-01-2003, 08:02 AM
I don't think the rates were ever cut by 2/3, in 1999 a $25,000 vehicle was not $900.it would be interesting to get the formula on what the fee is rated on..

eliminatedsprinter
10-01-2003, 09:36 AM
Kilrtoy:
This is the same price as 99, it was simply lowered, called given you a break and now it was returned to its original place. It never tripled. For your info, you can already write off your car VLF every year when you due your taxes...... Hmmmmm Lets see. Like, when IBM made their first computer it cost over a million bucks. Computer companys have since lowered their prices. If they raised them back up to a million bucks again, by your logic, that would not be a price increase, it would just be a return to the 1947 price wink . I'm with ya now. :D I just had to put it in other terms in order to understand the complexity of this difficult issue wink wink . Thanks for splainin it to me wink wink .
[ October 01, 2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

missboatnam1
10-01-2003, 09:44 AM
hey ziggy!!!! it was nce meeting you the other day!! wink
being in the car biz, this is the first iv heard of it....but i was told all TRUCKS are commercial vech's and wont being going up, has anyone got a bill on a truck yet?
if thats the case, then alot of peeps will be happy here!!! wink
i also think if its only for ONE year, to get our budget back into some postive form, may not be too bad...like kilrtoy said, they did go down 35% in the last few years!!.....
just my .02 on it!!

Ziggy
10-01-2003, 09:58 AM
Kilrtoy is right about the fees returning to the rates that were in place in 98 and earlier. If you remember we first had a 1/3 discount and then later it was upped to 2/3 discount.(thank you Pete Wilson)
The registration fees for a new car are based on the price you pay for the vehicle multiplied by 2% plus a few other localized fees which add up to about 38-45 bucks depending on which county you live in.
Used cars use a similar format(base established when new) but then DMV begins to depreciate the value after a few years of ownership, thus the fee reduces ever so slightly. Very little to none in the first couple years.
In any regard the fee is WELL above 90% of the states in our Union and where the taxes/fees in CA. actually go is still debatable. Lets use Oregon for an example, I recently sold a $50k+ X5 to a fellow who took delivery out of state and registered it to his home address in Oregon(although currently working here in CA.) Rather than paying about $350 here(at discounted rate) he paid about $35 for two years of tags from Oregon. Thats 10% of what it would have been here for twice the length :confused: eek! . What other tax ramification he might have I'm not aware of but I do believe he may have some sort of property tax.
One last comment about Grey- You might remember that when he first came into office the car tax refund was just getting put into place and rather than just discounting directly through the DMV renewal process he made you pay the full amount and then recieved a check months later for the discount(contarary to how Wilson had first designed it) with his signature attached....an attempt to gain supporters as if he was the one who initiated the refund...since this was a costly way to give Californians back their discount it was later revamped and you got your discount on the DMV renewal as it should have been originally....and you were wondering where some of the State surplus went :rolleyes: ....think about it, cost to print check, the paper itself, the envelope, postage, etc.....multiplied by millions of refunds.
Ok I'm done for now. Its the 1st so I got lots of paperwork today.
Later,
Zig

Ziggy
10-01-2003, 10:17 AM
missboatnam1:
hey ziggy!!!! it was nce meeting you the other day!! wink
being in the car biz, this is the first iv heard of it....but i was told all TRUCKS are commercial vech's and wont being going up, has anyone got a bill on a truck yet?
if thats the case, then alot of peeps will be happy here!!! wink
i also think if its only for ONE year, to get our budget back into some postive form, may not be too bad...like kilrtoy said, they did go down 35% in the last few years!!.....
just my .02 on it!! Tina Darlin',
It was real cool to put a face to the Nam name wink . I'm glad I took the time to stop by and see you. Hope that we can come together at the river some time and meet the spouses and kid(s). Like I said, I'll be freaked to take my I/O on the river since I've been jetting for the last 10 years but one of these days I'll get down there. I just prefer the vastness of the lake and the many little coves me and wifey can hide in wink
.
I haven't heard anything about commercial trucks being exempt from the increase. I'd imagine the license fee will go up but the commercial fee would remain intact since that was never changed. I'll find out soon on my F350 frown
[ October 01, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Ziggy ]

Essex502
10-01-2003, 10:17 AM
What if you were to sell your vehicle to a friend for, say, $100 and then he turned around and sold it back to you for say $125 bucks (gotta' show a profit to look legit). Take the bill of sale to the DMV each time to register it and pay the 2% of the sales price, i.e. $100 and $125. The sales price should establish the subsequent annual registration fees, right?
Looks like it would work! :D F&ck Grey (sp) Davis and VOTE HIM OUT!

Ziggy
10-01-2003, 10:23 AM
Essex502:
What if you were to sell your vehicle to a friend for, say, $100 and then he turned around and sold it back to you for say $125 bucks (gotta' show a profit to look legit). Take the bill of sale to the DMV each time to register it and pay the 2% of the sales price, i.e. $100 and $125. The sales price should establish the subsequent annual registration fees, right?
Looks like it would work! :D F&ck Grey (sp) Davis and VOTE HIM OUT! That'll save on the sales tax you'd pay but DMV has an established fee rate for the particular vehicle already(a code on your registration places it in a catagory))...maybe if it was a real old car but if its too new it won't work...to my knowledge.

Kilrtoy
10-01-2003, 02:08 PM
THANK YOU ZIGGY,
atleast someone else here understands how things work.
I guess if I bought the stripped out, bottom of the line Expedition it would have been $25,000, but when you buy the top of the line with all the bells and whisltes and a bunch of extra add on's the price is just a LITTLE more than $25,000. It was just under 900

NorCal Gameshow
10-01-2003, 03:09 PM
I sit corrected :D
to add on to what Ziggy said....
The VLF Tax Rate
Since 1948, the VLF tax rate has been 2%. In 1998, Governor Wilson signed a bill “offsetting”1
the tax by 25% to 1.5% effective January 1, 1999 with deeper cuts possible in future years (35%,
46.5%, 55%, 67.5%) depending on the adequacy of state general fund revenues.2 In 1999, the law
was amended, accelerating the tax cut to 35% in year 2000. 3 In 2000, the cut was further accelerated
to 67.5% commencing January 1, 2001. 4
Table 2
Vehicle License Fee (VLF) Taxpayer Offsets
Calendar Year 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
VLF Offset - 25% 35% 35% 67.5% 67.5% 67.5%
VLF Rebate - - - 32.5% - - -
Combined effective tax
cut 25% 35% 67.5% 67.5% 67.5% 67.5%
Effective VLF Tax Rate(1998)(1999)(2000) (2001)
(percent of valuation) 2% 1.5% 1.3% 0.65% 0.65% 0.65% 0.65%
2 AB2797 (Cardoza) Chapter 322, Statutes of 1998
3 AB1121 (Nakano) Chapter 74, Statutes of 1999
4 Chapters 106 and 107 Statutes of 2000. This includes a 35% offset and a 32.5% rebate. In 2001, legislation replaced the
rebate program with a direct offset commencing year 2002.
[ October 01, 2003, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: NorCal Gameshow ]

eliminatedsprinter
10-01-2003, 03:21 PM
I understand how it works I just don;t like or approve of it. The car tax is a hold over from when Ca had a personal property tax. There was a time when a taxman would come to peoples homes and estimate the value of their possessions and hand the taxpayer a bill for the right to keep and use thier stuff. This practice is from the days, back in europe, when the feudal nobility were the only citizens and they wanted to make sure they had the most wealth. When that practice was finally eliminated in CA motor vehicles were a luxury item and in keeping with Ca's progressive agenda of the time the legislature decided to keep the personal property tax on motor vehicles as a way of taxing the wealthy. In other words, we moved up from the system of the Sheriff of Nottingham to the system of Robin Hood in this regard. The problems with me are.
A. I don't like the feudal system of government or taxation.
B. I don't think motor vehicles are luxury items any more. And even if they were, please see reason A.
C. I consider myself to be a citizen not a peasant or a surf and I don't like being taxed like one. Go figure. wink
[ October 01, 2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: eliminatedsprinter ]

eliminatedsprinter
10-01-2003, 03:29 PM
eliminatedsprinter:
I understand how it works I just don;t like or approve of it. The car tax is a hold over from when Ca had a personal property tax. There was a time when a taxman would come to peoples homes and estimate the value of their possessions and hand the taxpayer a bill for the right to keep and use thier stuff. This practice is from the days, back in europe, when the feudal nobility were the only citizens and they wanted to make sure they had the most wealth. When that practice was finally eliminated in CA motor vehicles were a luxury item and in keeping with Ca's progressive agenda of the time the legislature decided to keep the personal property tax on motor vehicles as a way of taxing the wealthy. In other words, we moved up from the system of the Sheriff of Nottingham to the system of Robin Hood in this regard. The problems with me are.
A. I don't like the feudal system of government or taxation.
B. I don't think motor vehicles are luxury items any more. And even if they were, please see reason A.
C. I consider myself to be a citizen not a peasant or a surf and I don't like being taxed like one. Go figure. wink Now how can you argue with that! Authentic frontier gibberish! wink