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View Full Version : O.U.I. Copper Canyon: UPDATE!!



bear down
08-25-2003, 07:09 AM
Some of you may remember that my buddy received an O.U.I on Memorial Weekend of this year. According to police that day he blew a .11 while receiving a sobriety test while still on his boat and a breath test as well (a big no no!). He hired a lawyer(received many mailings from local atty's once he got home). This past Thursday the charges were dropped because his blood test showed him to have a B.A.C. of .05 (legal limit). He was arrested on suspecion of O.U.I. due to his B.A.C. not because he appeared drunk. He now told his lawyer to go after the county on why there was such a big difference in B.A.C from the breath test and the blood test. They withdrew blood from him when they took him to shore about 20 min. after he was taken from his boat. Why would there be a big difference in his B.A.C.??

mbrown2
08-25-2003, 07:17 AM
Sounds like a pretty good ending to me.....

Jbb
08-25-2003, 07:19 AM
It would be nice if...when charges were dropped like that ,that the county or Police Dept. were held liable for the Atty's fees ....$$$$$..

Moneypitt
08-25-2003, 07:36 AM
What would be nice is if LE had a standard to go by that was realistic to begin with.. A REAL reason to test someone, as in unsafe operation or excessive speed, something real, not just random stops......Probable cause??? What's that? We got badges, we don't need no probable cause!!! Sue the hell outa them!! Make it a class action, and get an injunction to prevent them from abuseing their authority in the future...Power to the people....(well, some people) My .02, Moneypitt

Kilrtoy
08-25-2003, 08:01 AM
God for him, but it still cost him some cash, thats the bad part.
Good luck geting any money from the county.
As far a the diferance, He may have just taken a drink, he may have blown incorrectly, they may not have cleaned the machine.They are various factors to that.

bear down
08-25-2003, 08:12 AM
Kilrtoy:
God for him, but it still cost him some cash, thats the bad part.
Good luck geting any money from the county.
As far a the diferance, He may have just taken a drink, he may have blown incorrectly, they may not have cleaned the machine.They are various factors to that. He dropped $1500 bucks for the atty. another $100 bucks for the taxi ride back from needles to Havasu and most importantly he lost a day in his boat at the channel!!!! This guy is not short of money, so he said he is going to pursue this issue and see what he can do. He felt it was very unfair what the officer did and wants it to stop.

boxscore
08-25-2003, 08:14 AM
Please keep us posted !

waterslinger
08-25-2003, 08:42 AM
Good luck. Were we boat here in south GA and north
FL we have GA and FL river cops. The river is the state line so all the cops get to play.
fav FL spring has been invaded look at
www.silverglennsprings.org (http://www.silverglennsprings.org)

waterslinger
08-25-2003, 08:48 AM
http://www.silverglensprings.org/indexa.htm
This one will work Sorry

gmocnik
08-25-2003, 08:52 AM
right up front...
1. drunk drivers (boats and cars) should be penalized to the fullest extent of the law...
2. the channel, copper canyon, etc. should not be venues where drunkeness and blatant lewd behavior are tolerated...
however, based on recent personal experiences and observations, i really have begun to question how LE in havasu is "dealing" with boating/safety related issues.
for example:
1..on saturday while beached in the channel, the boat next us was occupied by 8-10 people having fun and enjoying music and a few drinks...girls were dancing and generally just doing what you do in the channel..it was definitely rated pg-13 at worst...sure enough, two lhcpd boat cops pull into the designated area two spots down and one officer comes onshore and pulls a couple of the girls up onto the sidewalk..turns out at least one girl was nineteen ...they question her for 10-15 minutes, haul her onboard the police boat, breathalize her, cuff her, fill out 20-30 minutes worth of paperwork, transport her to a slip near lb resort and continue the "processing" for a good 45 minutes....
these cops were off the water for a good 1 1/2 hrs to put the pinch on 19 year old who was doing no more than drinking a beer....(one of the occupants on our boat was la area LE and he was appalled at the waste of resources)
meanwhile in the channel, you could easily observe boats travelling way faster than "no wake", drunken idiots swimming across to retrieve a football, people running their motors while beached to charge the batteries, etc...
not to mention the three near misses i experienced over the weekend due to jetski and boaters not having any clue as to right of way or navigating rules...
in my opinion, it just seems to me that LE chooses to grab the low hanging apples (drinking 19 year olds, people sitting on their boats in copper) and is ignoring (or unprepared) to deal with more critical boating safety issues....
to prove my point...the next time you are on havasu, take 10 minutes and cruise or stop around site six and the turn around the island...it will take 1 minute for you to observe a potentially fatal near miss due to driver incompetence...i quarantee that there will be no boat cops around......
just some of my personal opinions and observations...

Jbb
08-25-2003, 09:14 AM
waterslinger:
http://www.silverglensprings.org/indexa.htm
This one will work Sorry Holy Shit....!
BE FOREWARNED! At the present time, possession of any alcoholic beverage is prohibited 'in and on the waters of Silver Glen Springs/Silver Glen Run'. This means that you may not enter the area with so much as a can of beer in your refrigerator! Law enforcement (especially Marion county) will use any obvious sign that you possess alcohol (a beer can/bottle/etc.) as an excuse to board and search your vessel! Marion county Officers have even been known to HIDE IN THE TREES with BINOCULARS and/or NIGHT VISION GLASSES to peer into your cabins/homes/bedrooms under the premise of 'good Police work' looking for someone drinking a glass of wine in their cabins. The fact that they may see you in your most intimate moments, and that this appears to violate your 'Right to Privacy' under Florida's Constitution seems less important to them than catching those criminals who have a drink with dinner... Lake county appears to be more considerate of an Americans Civil Rights, and we thank them for that.

Kilrtoy
08-25-2003, 09:18 AM
WHAT WOULD EXPECT FROM GEORGIA, ANYTHING LESS

Jbb
08-25-2003, 09:21 AM
Kilrtoy:
WHAT WOULD EXPECT FROM GEORGIA, ANYTHING LESS Except that its in Florida!!!.....lol... :D
[ August 25, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: JETBOAT BRIAN ]

Kilrtoy
08-25-2003, 09:22 AM
Thats even worse, they arrested Luke Skywalker for singing......

River Lynchmob
08-25-2003, 09:33 AM
i receive an OUI in Parker this last weekend i was pulled over for "traveling counterclockwise" which as it turned out was idling midriver turns into a field sobriety test which the police admitted i passed then the breathalizer .150 granted i had been drinking but by the admission of the officers i passed the field sobriety test. final charges oui extreem oui and counterclockwise travel. This is looking like it will be very expensive. Does anyone have any experience with this or know a good attorney that deals with OUI? Any help would be great.

Mandelon
08-25-2003, 09:38 AM
I understand that if your boat is ANCHORED you are not operating, so no OUI. You can be drunk as a skunk and they cannot mess with you????
True or False ? :confused:

boatnam2
08-25-2003, 09:52 AM
rl,man that sucks if your out in parker on a saturday night you better be sober or close to it because your going to get pulled over if your between sundance and roadrunner.missboatnams brother just got one a few months ago and used a lawyer in parker i will try and get his name and pm you with it.if it was a extreme oui good luck.

River Lynchmob
08-25-2003, 10:09 AM
that would be a big help. it was an extreem oui. ive never been pulled over at the river been driving there for years i learned to drive on my dads 21 schiada when i was 10 to 12 so i try not to do anything to draw attention to myself. i guess the law of averages catches you eventually.

Rod-64
08-25-2003, 10:09 AM
Mandelon:
I understand that if your boat is ANCHORED you are not operating, so no OUI. You can be drunk as a skunk and they cannot mess with you????
True or False ? :confused: True...but you still shouldn't sit at the helm. If the boat is anchored and you are in no way in control of the boat then yes. If you are drifting...even if the key is not in the ignition, you are underway and are operating oui.

Outnumbered
08-25-2003, 11:02 AM
bear down:
Some of you may remember that my buddy received an O.U.I on Memorial Weekend of this year. According to police that day he blew a .11 while receiving a sobriety test while still on his boat and a breath test as well (a big no no!). He hired a lawyer(received many mailings from local atty's once he got home). This past Thursday the charges were dropped because his blood test showed him to have a B.A.C. of .05 (legal limit). He was arrested on suspecion of O.U.I. due to his B.A.C. not because he appeared drunk. He now told his lawyer to go after the county on why there was such a big difference in B.A.C from the breath test and the blood test. They withdrew blood from him when they took him to shore about 20 min. after he was taken from his boat. Why would there be a big difference in his B.A.C.?? It takes about 15 minutes +/- for the breathalyzer (sp) to read correct. If you take a drink and then blow within 15 minutes, the residual alcohol in your mouth will cause it to read high. That is probably why he blew .11 and then tested .05 blood.
In college our fraternity bought one to use at parties and we verified this. Assuming the technology has not changed much in the past several years and assuming the breathalyzer was working properly, this is probably the reason.
Keep us posted.
OL
[ August 25, 2003, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Old Lavey ]

totenhosen
08-25-2003, 11:56 AM
bear down:
Some of you may remember that my buddy received an O.U.I on Memorial Weekend of this year. According to police that day he blew a .11 while receiving a sobriety test while still on his boat and a breath test as well (a big no no!). He hired a lawyer(received many mailings from local atty's once he got home). This past Thursday the charges were dropped because his blood test showed him to have a B.A.C. of .05 (legal limit). He was arrested on suspecion of O.U.I. due to his B.A.C. not because he appeared drunk. He now told his lawyer to go after the county on why there was such a big difference in B.A.C from the breath test and the blood test. They withdrew blood from him when they took him to shore about 20 min. after he was taken from his boat. Why would there be a big difference in his B.A.C.?? Sorry I don't think he'll get shit out of it. The on-site breathalyzer is merely for investigation purposes. It provides an officer additional justification to arrest you. Remember when you are arrested it is for being under the "suspicion" of OUI. You have not been convicted. From what I know the readings on that are inadmissable in court. That is why they have to take you to the station and get a reading on a calibrated machine, urine or blood test.

dimarcobros
08-25-2003, 12:10 PM
RL - did you get a blood or urine test done? If so what was the reading?
It is even worse thinking about it today than yesterday. Seemed like a bad dream yesterday, today it is setting in.
DMB

River Lynchmob
08-25-2003, 12:43 PM
only breath the officer told me that they only use blood or breath, you have to request blood but he said that it reads higher and if you refuse breath they call the judge and wake him up to het a court order to draw blood.

totenhosen
08-25-2003, 12:49 PM
River Lynchmob:
only breath the officer told me that they only use blood or breath, you have to request blood but he said that it reads higher and if you refuse breath they call the judge and wake him up to het a court order to draw blood. Whats up! I'm in Pasadena too. Sounds like the cop punked you. I've been through the same thing with CHP in Pasadena. I got pulled over for not having a front plate (which in no why they could have seen). Basically I won the criminal case but the DMV shafted me. In CA you have two trials.

River Lynchmob
08-25-2003, 01:35 PM
all i know is i have to find a very good attorney

My Man's Sportin' Wood
08-27-2003, 07:22 AM
JETBOAT BRIAN:
waterslinger:
http://www.silverglensprings.org/indexa.htm
This one will work Sorry Holy Shit....!
BE FOREWARNED! At the present time, possession of any alcoholic beverage is prohibited 'in and on the waters of Silver Glen Springs/Silver Glen Run'. This means that you may not enter the area with so much as a can of beer in your refrigerator! Law enforcement (especially Marion county) will use any obvious sign that you possess alcohol (a beer can/bottle/etc.) as an excuse to board and search your vessel! Marion county Officers have even been known to HIDE IN THE TREES with BINOCULARS and/or NIGHT VISION GLASSES to peer into your cabins/homes/bedrooms under the premise of 'good Police work' looking for someone drinking a glass of wine in their cabins. The fact that they may see you in your most intimate moments, and that this appears to violate your 'Right to Privacy' under Florida's Constitution seems less important to them than catching those criminals who have a drink with dinner... Lake county appears to be more considerate of an Americans Civil Rights, and we thank them for that. Sorry to bring this up again, but it seems from the pictures that everyone gets around this rule by using dixie cups. The place looks pretty cool. I had to share this cool boat I found there though. This thing is awesome!! I really dig all the headlights in the front for huntin' gators! :D
http://www.silverglensprings.org/images2/JH7.jpg

OGShocker
08-27-2003, 08:07 AM
D*mn RL, I am sorry to hear of your troubles. I will ask around and send you a PM.
Good luck,
OGS
River Lynchmob:
i receive an OUI in Parker this last weekend i was pulled over for "traveling counterclockwise" which as it turned out was idling midriver turns into a field sobriety test which the police admitted i passed then the breathalizer .150 granted i had been drinking but by the admission of the officers i passed the field sobriety test. final charges oui extreem oui and counterclockwise travel. This is looking like it will be very expensive. Does anyone have any experience with this or know a good attorney that deals with OUI? Any help would be great.

SandbarScot
08-27-2003, 06:18 PM
Blood test only 20 minutes after PAS breath test in Copper Canyon? I don't believe it.

VillainDave
08-27-2003, 09:00 PM
[ August 27, 2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: VillainDave ]

VillainDave
08-27-2003, 09:00 PM
Well the longer it take for them to draw the blood the more the level goes down so it's a good thing that they waited till they got back to shore!

bear down
08-28-2003, 06:10 AM
SandbarScot:
Blood test only 20 minutes after PAS breath test in Copper Canyon? I don't believe it. Why wouldn't you believe it? They did not take him to the hospital or a clinic, they had a mobile station/detention center where they took his blood right after they arrested him on his boat.

SandbarScot
08-28-2003, 11:34 AM
I've never seen a mobile booking post inside of Copper Canyon. It must have been a boat ride somewhere, after hooking him up and deciding what to do with his boat. Once they took him to their booking station / command post or whatever, they would have to call for a phlebotomist and waited for his/her arrival. The only way around that is if one was standing by. It may have SEEMED like 20 minutes (due to his intoxication), but the disparity in BAC % would indicate a longer time. The PAS devices can get out of whack, which is why monthly calibration checks are a good idea. However, we need to remember that it is just one of the FSTs, nothing more. That is why he was not filed on when the blood came back a .05% BAC

partycat
08-28-2003, 03:09 PM
The advice I got was to never blow in the breathalyzer. If they pull you over, refuse and tak blood only. If you are border line, you may have enough time to be legal. If your wasted, it may be another story.

bear down
08-28-2003, 03:23 PM
SandbarScot:
I've never seen a mobile booking post inside of Copper Canyon. It must have been a boat ride somewhere, after hooking him up and deciding what to do with his boat. Once they took him to their booking station / command post or whatever, they would have to call for a phlebotomist and waited for his/her arrival. The only way around that is if one was standing by. It may have SEEMED like 20 minutes (due to his intoxication), but the disparity in BAC % would indicate a longer time. The PAS devices can get out of whack, which is why monthly calibration checks are a good idea. However, we need to remember that it is just one of the FSTs, nothing more. That is why he was not filed on when the blood came back a .05% BAC Sorry for the confusion, He was taken to shore where they had a detention center/command post a little bit south of copper canyon (going towards havasu Springs)they had someone there available to take his blood.

bear down
08-28-2003, 03:29 PM
partycat:
The advice I got was to never blow in the breathalyzer. If they pull you over, refuse and tak blood only. If you are border line, you may have enough time to be legal. If your wasted, it may be another story. I tried that when I got my DUI 7 years ago, my buddy was a Cadet and told me the same thing. I refused the breath test and said I wanted to take the piss test. Once they took me down to the station I said I could not take a piss and said I needed water and killed about 45 minutes and I said again I still could not take a piss. Then they took me to the hospital to take a blood test and I faked being dizzy and ready to pass out to buy more time then they took blood. I was pulled over at 1:35a.m and blood was taken at 4:00a.m. and I was still .14 BAC. To teach me a lesson they threw me in the Felony tank at LA County with all of LA's finest Felons. If your drunk, YOUR DRUNK!!!

SandbarScot
08-28-2003, 05:19 PM
Thats funny. You were probably a .20 when they stopped you. Gotta love the tenacity. If you only stalled them about 3 1/2 more hours...

SandbarScot
08-28-2003, 05:19 PM
Thats funny. You were probably a .20 when they stopped you. Gotta love the tenacity. If you only stalled them about 3 1/2 more hours...

SandbarScot
08-28-2003, 05:20 PM
Apologies for the double post.

H20Advantage
08-28-2003, 05:43 PM
You may try to stall the tests (Blood or breath. Urine not a standard option anymore in CA.) but the chemist can calculate what your BAC is at time of arrest from what it is at the time of the test.
By the way the PAS (Preliminary Alcohol Screening) machine used in the field is now admissable evidence in court and requires a fifteen minute observation time prior to taking.
[ August 28, 2003, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: H20Advantage ]

dr. margarita
08-28-2003, 07:01 PM
My neighbor just returned from a houseboat trip at Cottonwood a week ago Saturday. He said the launch ramp had what appeared to be a swat team of cops conducting a sobreity check point on every boater coming off the lake!! Sobreity tests given and if failed, hauled off in a wagon!! Citations for ANY open container with ZERO tolerance. What's happening? eek!

Boatcop
08-28-2003, 08:00 PM
He said the launch ramp had what appeared to be a swat team of cops conducting a sobreity check point on every boater coming off the lake!! Sobreity tests given and if failed, hauled off in a wagon!! Citations for ANY open container with ZERO tolerance. What's happening? What's happening, you ask?
Nationwide, intoxicated boat operators are involved in 75% of all fatal recreational boat collisions. For us in La Paz County it's been 100% for the last 3 years. The total dead down here during that time is 10. Serious injuries number more than 2 dozen.
Plainly put, we're sick and tired of pulling dead and maimed people out of the water, when their deaths could have been prevented by a little common sense.
All the warnings about the dangers of drinking and boating fall on deaf ears. All the stats and research in the world, showing that a person's reaction time, peripheral vision, judgment, depth perception, night vision, color detection, etc. is seriously diminished at a BAC of .08% doesn't mean a damn thing to many people.
They feel that they are the exception, and can pilot a boat drunk with no problems. I'm sure that's what the guy thought who's now facing 16 felony counts including manslaughter, for running over a PWC. Or the guy on the pontoon boat who ran over two teenage girls, or the guy in the open bow boat who ran over another boat ejecting another 2 teenage girls, who's bodies we found 5 days later.
Want me to keep going? Because I could use up this site's entire bandwidth with stories such as the one's above.
If you won't believe the research, or like the one's mentioned above, think you're immune from effects, then maybe the fear of being arrested, jailed, fingerprinted, photographed, criminal record, fined, legal fees, etc. will make you put a sober person behind the wheel.
You may ask what good it does to nab the drunks as they're geting off the water? It's called deterrence. Knowing they might get checked, may keep them sober on the lake.
A whiz-bang, high-dollar lawyer may get you off on some technicality, or get it plead down to a slap on the wrist. I don't give a rat's patootie what happens in court, the important thing is that we're getting the drunks off the water and maybe saving a life. Possibly YOUR LIFE OR THE LIVES OF YOUR LOVED ONES!
I guarantee that when someone is caught, it's not their first time drunk behind the wheel. You may have gotten away without incident 100 times before. But that 101st may be the one that proves fatal.
When a checkpoint, or saturation patrol can come back empty handed, that's a sign of a successful operation. It means that the desired deterrent effect is taking place.
But as long as discourteous, irresponsible idiots are out on the water with the steering wheel in one hand and a beer bong in the other, we'll be out there, too.
Let's just hope we don't meet by accident.
[ August 28, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Boatcop ]

mike37
08-28-2003, 08:21 PM
Citations for ANY open container with ZERO tolerance. What's happening? can you get citition for open container if you have a DD ?

Trailer Park Casanova
08-28-2003, 08:30 PM
Today, I took my son to a funeral of a classmate killed a few days ago a few blocks from my house.
She was as sweet as sugar, a 12 yr old little Grace Kelly look alike,,, just the best.
A drunk T boned her moms car in an intersection close by.(First and Royal)
A little girls funeral is as bad as it gets.
We had a guy in a powerboat splash our daughter in Parker. His 22 ft boat coming within feet of her on her wakeboard.
He thought it was cute.
I saw her life flash by in a split second.
I have a driver, my daughter or someone in the boat who hasn't had a drink,, drive us to Fox's, and drive the boat back from the sandbar after a day of boozing.
Yea, she bitches bad about cramps when her period hits, so if she takes a snort to loosen up, then Kathy or I don't drink, and we drive.
I got stopped near RD's (again) Saturday night, and man o man am I glad I was sober.
Your whole life changes after a DUI.
I haven't got one, but have decided I never will. The people I see get them,,, well,, it really sucks.
The people/kids killed by them,,,, it sucks deluxe. It would be in very bad taste to post her funeral pic here,, but I'm tempted.
[ August 28, 2003, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: Trailer Park Casanova ]

LAPD Gary
08-28-2003, 08:30 PM
Thanks again Alan for another well writen post that cuts to the point of what the problem is and why LEO's are addressing this problem.

HighRoller
08-28-2003, 09:35 PM
It takes a different catalyst for different people to stop drinking and driving.For me it was getting a CDL.(Commercial Driver's license)Once I realized I could lose my life and income from a DUI I stopped that crap completely.In the last four years I have only had one instance where I drove after more than one beer.And that instance wears heavily on me even though it was less than 2 miles.My only problem with the law is this.If drinking impairs your ability to drive,why allow it at all when driving?I think the .08 limit has been strategically placed to"allow"people to drive impaired enough to produce revenue.You want to wipe out DUI's?Institute a zero tolerance policy and make it one year without a license for first offense.We've had to listen to MADD play both sides of the issue for 20 years now.They crow about how much they reduce drunk driving. But then they say it's an epidemic.I guess if there were no drunk drivers MADD would go out of business.That's why you've never seen MADD lobby for a zero tolerance policy.

Kilrtoy
08-28-2003, 09:50 PM
I have to disagree wit the revenue part.
If that is what they wanted they would place it alot higher than 1,500. people would stop driving drunk if they raised the fine(to like 5,000) and placed mandatory jailLike 6 months in the clink) behind it. After a few of those you would see a dramatic decrease in Drunk driving, once the word spread....

Outnumbered
08-28-2003, 11:59 PM
mike37:
Citations for ANY open container with ZERO tolerance. What's happening? can you get citition for open container if you have a DD ? Alan,
What's the rule on this. My wife doesn't drink so when were out and I have more than one or two, she's drivin'. When we're on Mohave and I'm open container and she's 0.0 BAC is that a problem????
Thanks for the help,
OL

Boatcop
08-29-2003, 05:41 AM
As far as I know, there's no restriction on open containers in boats. I even checked the regs for the Lake Mead National Recreation area, and again, no mention of it.
As long as the operator is not impaired AND below .08%, there's no problem. At least legally.
Maybe the open container tickets were while they were in their cars, going down to the ramp, or just a perception that people were getting cited for that.
MADD has lobbied for a .00%, ZERO tolerance for all motor vehicles. But who do you think has more clout? The liquor and bar industry or MADD.
The laws are a bit screwed up. But not in the way most people think. Professional drivers such as taxi, bus and commercial truck drivers, commercial boat operators and pilots have an imposed limit of .04%. Commercial vehicles can't even have any alcohol anywhere in the vehicle.
The law feels that professional drivers who do it for a living, can't be above a .04%, but that amateur drivers can't be above .08%. WTF!
I definitely agree with Kilrtoy. Revenue is not even in the equation. Here in AZ the max fine for a class 1 misdemeanor (which DUI/OUI is) is $5,000. But a first offense draw about a $750-$1,000 fine. If it was only about money, there'd be mandatory fine laws calling for the Max allowable under the law.

dr. margarita
08-29-2003, 08:40 AM
Thanks for the "sobering" information Boatcop. I had no idea that death rates were that high on the River. I've heard some stories but not as severe as your statistics. It all makes clear sense now, especially in light of some of the attained boat speeds.
I feel reborn! No booze and boating!