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All Jets
03-18-2003, 06:04 PM
Another First from R&D Marine and Dual-Drives Systems Inc.!!!!!!
Harold Bruce of R&D Marine in Anaheim, Ca. has recently completed the first and only Jet Engine to Dual Jet Drive boat in the world. I gave Harold a bare hull and he really ran with it. All of the rigging, electrical, and custom fabrication work along with the installation of the Dual-Drive System was done by team R&D Marine; these guys really have it together. This 28 Ft. Carrera Raptor is powered by a GE T-58-8F Jet Engine and is driven by the Dual-Drive System provided by Dual-Drive Systems Inc., who is also located in Anaheim, Ca. These two companies worked closely together to come up with a finished product. Gary Smith of Dual-Drives Systems did a fantastic job on my gearbox and really had his work cut out for him I might add by figuring out a way to build a custom gearbox, gears and a shaft that could not only allow for the counter clockwise rotation of the power turbine but could also handle the 1350hp. What amazes me the most is how much work a few guys can get done in such a short period of time, and all from scratch. I know some you are going to want numbers off this boat so all I can say for now is that during testing phase I went from 0-75 Mph in just a few short seconds. I must admit, in the beginning of this project I sure had my doubts but now that I have had the boat in the water, I am truly amazed at its overall performance. I can promise you that Dual-Drives are the way of the future and we are going to see a lot more of these systems in the up coming months. For all those based locally and are interested in seeing the boat, Dual Drives Systems Inc. has expressed interest in displaying my boat in their booth at the up coming Anaheim Boat Show.

twistedpair
03-18-2003, 06:08 PM
Welcome to the boards! We've been hearing about these things for a while now, Got any Pics? If you have any trouble, just post the URL and somebody will help you out.

Jungle Boy
03-18-2003, 06:09 PM
Cool, But lets see some photos.

HammerDown
03-18-2003, 06:10 PM
How about displaying some pic's...for those of us that are not exactly....local.

MANIC MECHANIC
03-18-2003, 06:13 PM
Sure got my attention!! Pictures?? :D :D Tim

MANIC MECHANIC
03-18-2003, 06:14 PM
Sure got my attention!! Pictures?? :D :D Tim

All Jets
03-18-2003, 06:29 PM
Here you go. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Dsc00018-med.jpg

Jungle Boy
03-18-2003, 06:40 PM
100% nasty. Keep us updated on performance.

All Jets
03-18-2003, 06:41 PM
another one
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Launch_Ramp-med.jpg

twistedpair
03-18-2003, 06:42 PM
Wow, so how are the docking manners? Can the drives be forward/reverse independent of one another, or is it one common gearcase?

Tom Brown
03-18-2003, 06:43 PM
Looks good.
What is the advantage of dual drives versus a single larger drive?

All Jets
03-18-2003, 06:44 PM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Rooster_4-med.jpg

All Jets
03-18-2003, 06:45 PM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Rooster_Tail_2-med.jpg

All Jets
03-18-2003, 06:46 PM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Dsc00008-med.jpg

All Jets
03-18-2003, 06:48 PM
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Dsc00015-med.jpg

bigq
03-18-2003, 06:52 PM
A 28ft jet boat that does 75MPH, sweet.

Slick
03-18-2003, 10:12 PM
That is SWEEEEEETTTTTTT.
Why didn't you vent that exhaust out the transom? Is it too big and would jeopardize structural stability, too hot? There's lots of room left on that big ass.
Thanks for sharing,
Slick
Nevermind, you just answered my question in the Jet Tech forum. Temporary for testing, gotcha :D
[ March 18, 2003, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Slick ]

andy01
03-18-2003, 10:48 PM
Why on gods earth would you waist your money on a jet drive? Why not a I/O? Say a number 6 drive??? These guys that think the dual jet are the new way are klding them selves. Good luck, you have the biggest ............... with the most horse power that goes 70! Congrats!
Jets are for small boats that flat out haul ass!
Andy

Craig
03-19-2003, 03:36 AM
Slick:
That is SWEEEEEETTTTTTT.
Why didn't you vent that exhaust out the transom? Is it too big and would jeopardize structural stability, too hot? There's lots of room left on that big ass.
Thanks for sharing,
Slick
Nevermind, you just answered my question in the Jet Tech forum. Temporary for testing, gotcha :D I read an article on the turbines that said if they ran the exhaust straight out the back with the turbine running the boat moves forward even with the output shaft held. Just due to the forward thrust! Pretty cool!

HOSS
03-19-2003, 04:52 AM
Not to mention backwash. I think that would all but ruin your day!

GasTurbine
03-19-2003, 05:24 AM
Craig:
Slick:
That is SWEEEEEETTTTTTT.
Why didn't you vent that exhaust out the transom? Is it too big and would jeopardize structural stability, too hot? There's lots of room left on that big ass.
Thanks for sharing,
Slick
Nevermind, you just answered my question in the Jet Tech forum. Temporary for testing, gotcha :D I read an article on the turbines that said if they ran the exhaust straight out the back with the turbine running the boat moves forward even with the output shaft held. Just due to the forward thrust! Pretty cool! True. Our ride has about 100 lbs of thrust at speed, but jumps to 200 lbs @ idle with the output shaft held.

Freak
03-19-2003, 05:25 AM
All Jets - nice boat! I enjoyed the pics. I applaud you for building something you wanted to build. Frankly, I would be climbing all over your boat checking it out then say a just another boat with #6 drive in it that does 100+. I think different is better than just another #6 and 100+.
Thumbs up to you.

HavasuDreamin'
03-19-2003, 05:49 AM
Very interesting project and I give you credit for experimenting. However, the boat isn't very practical..........a 28' V'Bottom boat that only has room for two in the cockpit is perplexing to me. :confused:

superdave013
03-19-2003, 06:17 AM
racingrascal:
Why on gods earth would you waist your money on a jet drive? Why not a I/O? Say a number 6 drive??? These guys that think the dual jet are the new way are klding them selves. Good luck, you have the biggest ............... with the most horse power that goes 70! Congrats!
Jets are for small boats that flat out haul ass!
Andy I was hoping someone would have the balls to say it! I've been hearing about this project for a long time. I love seeing things that are different and out of the box. That sure is and it looks to be nicely done. Sounds like it leaves really really hard but is that the name of the game in a 28' boat.
But twins are in. Everyones doing it. They did it back in the 60's with v drives and now it's the "new rage" in drag boats again.
Even the I/O guys are playing with the idea.
I bet this tiwn I/O package would go faster in that boat and still leave lots of room on the inside.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/516/166Picture_028-med.jpg

68campbell
03-19-2003, 07:46 AM
What a great design, I think some people forget that "Hot Boating" is not always about the speed but about how radical something is built.

All Jets
03-19-2003, 08:08 AM
For those of you that are concerned about the seating arrangements this boat can seat 12 adults comfortably, 6 in the open bow, 4 in the galley along with the driver and co-pilot.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Boat_Pic_s0009.jpg

rivercrazy
03-19-2003, 08:50 AM
This is a really cool idea. Something new, different, and experimental is always bitchen! COngrats on getting it all together. It will definately turn some heads everywhere you take it. And pay no mind to those giving you grief about it. After all its your project and your own money.... :D

572Daytona
03-19-2003, 09:10 AM
superdave013:
racingrascal:
Why on gods earth would you waist your money on a jet drive? Why not a I/O? Say a number 6 drive??? These guys that think the dual jet are the new way are klding them selves. Good luck, you have the biggest ............... with the most horse power that goes 70! Congrats!
Jets are for small boats that flat out haul ass!
Andy I was hoping someone would have the balls to say it! I've been hearing about this project for a long time. I love seeing things that are different and out of the box. That sure is and it looks to be nicely done. Sounds like it leaves really really hard but is that the name of the game in a 28' boat.
But twins are in. Everyones doing it. They did it back in the 60's with v drives and now it's the "new rage" in drag boats again.
Even the I/O guys are playing with the idea.
I bet this tiwn I/O package would go faster in that boat and still leave lots of room on the inside.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/516/166Picture_028-med.jpg Yep that sure looks great sitting on the trailer (presuming it is a triple axle trailer) but totally impractical for recreational lake usage. I would never let my kids swim or wade around the back end of that thing, nor would you be able to pull up to a sand bar. You could also probably buy at least 10 jet drives for what that setup cost. I think there is a market for larger jets and I applaud the experimentation that is being done on them. Personally I would like to see big inch gasoline engine as opposed to the turbines though.
[ March 19, 2003, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: 572Daytona ]

twistedpair
03-19-2003, 09:22 AM
I'm sure the turbine is just for the initial 'Holy Shit!' factor. Sure got my attention!

bigq
03-19-2003, 09:23 AM
racingrascal:
Why on gods earth would you waist your money on a jet drive? Why not a I/O? Say a number 6 drive??? These guys that think the dual jet are the new way are klding them selves. Good luck, you have the biggest ............... with the most horse power that goes 70! Congrats!
Jets are for small boats that flat out haul ass!
Andy Well it's creative, that what I like about it. Many people still like the jets or need them for certain water conditions. If they can make a bigger boat run decent with the two jets, even better. I suppose he could have done something really outragousand creative and made another Blown I/O DCB. wink
Disclaimer: the last sentence was a poke at fun; it was suppose to be funny, please don't take it personal if you own a blown I/O or a DCB.With all the crap on the board I am just covering my ass. :D
I'm just jealous Racingrascal wink

flat broke
03-19-2003, 09:26 AM
I wish I would have seen this sooner, but I'll still jump on the bandwagon. Let me get this straight, you threw 1300HP at a 28' V bottom and came up with 75mph? I'm not knocking your dare to be different approach, but it doesn't really say anything about the drives being an efficient alternative to a prop. Care to wager what that boat would have run with an outdrive?
What would be the point of running a jet in a 28' boat? Shallow water will still be a problem with a boat that large, so one of the primary advantages to a jet asside from safety has been negated. If it the reason behind the odd pairing of power and propulsion was so you could get a boat built on the cheap through reimbursements and enticements from industry folk, then I could understand the choice.
Once again, I'm not doging your ride, just illsutrating the fact that this is no great accomplishment for the Dual Drives folks or R&D marine, and certainly not a measure of efficiency that will make a strong marketing case for the twin pump idea. Dare to be different is cool, but the novelty will wear off fast when you're getting passed by all the prop/piston engine combo boats that can still hear a 1200 watt system over their engine, and not reak of diesel when they get to the bar. And thats from a guy that loves his jetboat.
Chris

rivercrazy
03-19-2003, 09:30 AM
Up on plane a 28' deep V really doesnt sit much deeper in the water than a 21 foot 18 degree jet boat. The difference is less than a foot. So if your in water where you would run aground, your playing with fire either way.

bigq
03-19-2003, 09:36 AM
IS 75MPH the top speed? he just stated he got to 75 in a few seconds. From what I heard on a 24' boat the duel jets are quite a bit more efficient than the single unit.

superdave013
03-19-2003, 09:40 AM
bigq:
IS 75MPH the top speed? he just stated he got to 75 in a few seconds. From what I heard on a 24' boat the duel jets are quite a bit more efficient than the single unit. I agree, I don't think that is the top speed. But it sounds like it leaves pretty hard for a big guy.

Sleek-Jet
03-19-2003, 09:46 AM
How load is that thing??
I personally know that you can't stand to be within 10 feet of an allison (TP331) turbine at idle without some good earplugs!!
Ahh... what the hell, it doesn't matter. Burning kerosen is just to cool. :D :D

Jungle Boy
03-19-2003, 09:52 AM
bigq:
IS 75MPH the top speed? he just stated he got to 75 in a few seconds. From what I heard on a 24' boat the duel jets are quite a bit more efficient than the single unit. That's what I read. It's sounds like it's in the beginning stages of testing. With fine tuning and impeller/wedge work, I'm sure there is lots left. Hats off for being brave enough to try something different. Do you have a shot of the intake?

All Jets
03-19-2003, 10:10 AM
Gentlemen you are correct. I do not have a top speed do to the fact that I am still playing around with different size impellers. When I was running 75 Mph the N2 was only at 85% so I still have another 1500 Rpms to play with. I was using AA aluminum impellers for that particular test. To address the ones that are convinced that the outdives are the only way to go, I look forward to seeing you all out on the lake. As a good sport I promise to have a beer waiting for you at the bar because by the time you get on plane, I will already be there.

future boater
03-19-2003, 10:12 AM
68campbell:
What a great design, I think some people forget that "Hot Boating" is not always about the speed but about how radical something is built.

Jungle Boy
03-19-2003, 10:14 AM
EagleRacing.ca has some real cool CNC bowls that would look good on that boat.

rivercrazy
03-19-2003, 10:15 AM
All Jets:
Gentlemen you are correct. I do not have a top speed do to the fact that I am still playing around with different size impellers. When I was running 75 Mph the N2 was only at 85% so I still have another 1500 Rpms to play with. I was using AA aluminum impellers for that particular test. To address the ones that are convinced that the outdives are the only way to go, I look forward to seeing you all out on the lake. As a good sport I promise to have a beer waiting for you at the bar because by the time you get on plane, I will already be there. ROFLMFAO! Touche All Jets, Touche :D :D :D !

hack job
03-19-2003, 10:24 AM
i have a question is this the same design that was stolen from Aggressor? cause i could have swore that Harold Bruce was the guy that Dave Jones hired to build him a motor for there dual drive boat that was done last year and Harold built some piece of crap that wouldnt last, and then started this dual drive thing . just a thought. eek!
and 75 is pretty cool if it had like 550 hp or some small # , but i would assume that you would have to hit that 100 mark to impress some of these people. wink
[ March 21, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: hack job ]

superdave013
03-19-2003, 10:36 AM
All Jets:
Gentlemen you are correct. I do not have a top speed do to the fact that I am still playing around with different size impellers. When I was running 75 Mph the N2 was only at 85% so I still have another 1500 Rpms to play with. I was using AA aluminum impellers for that particular test. To address the ones that are convinced that the outdives are the only way to go, I look forward to seeing you all out on the lake. As a good sport I promise to have a beer waiting for you at the bar because by the time you get on plane, I will already be there. Deal! But I'll have one Menkens V-Drive in my rig.

Sleek-Jet
03-19-2003, 10:43 AM
All Jets:
When I was running 75 Mph the N2 was only at 85% so I still have another 1500 Rpms to play with. All Jets, what was the temp at that power setting, and what is the red-line temp for the powerplant?

superV
03-19-2003, 10:50 AM
All Jets,
Nice work, your boat looks great.Dont sweet all the neg. comments. To each his own. wink Im sure anyone here would love to go for a ride in that thing. :D

Freak
03-19-2003, 11:29 AM
But wait - you are going to spend mega bucks on a big inch V8 with twin I/O's and still get waxed by a couple of lowly outboards. LOL.

superdave013
03-19-2003, 11:43 AM
superV:
All Jets,
Nice work, your boat looks great.Dont sweet all the neg. comments. To each his own. wink Im sure anyone here would love to go for a ride in that thing. :D Correct, I'ed love to feel that big beast pull outta the hole. It would have to be a bitchen ride. And a big + is that you can sock tons of hp to it and not break it.
[ March 19, 2003, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: superdave013 ]

bigq
03-19-2003, 03:41 PM
Freak:
But wait - you are going to spend mega bucks on a big inch V8 with twin I/O's and still get waxed by a couple of lowly outboards. LOL. Doesn't Merc have a turbine outboard? I could have sworn I saw an experimental outboard in the ***boat a few months back.

bigq
03-19-2003, 03:48 PM
RiverDave
It's really not quite as "dangerous" to have an I/O on your boat as some would have you think, and it'll wax that thing 6 ways to Sunday while getting better fuel mileage.
RD It is more "dangerous" with kids, they are not as aware as an adult about the prop.
"fuel mileage" It's a friggin turbine! uh... whats the mileage on a turbine anyway?

superdave013
03-19-2003, 03:53 PM
Freak:
But wait - you are going to spend mega bucks on a big inch V8 with twin I/O's and still get waxed by a couple of lowly outboards. LOL. Not to highjack this thread or anything. But no outboards were waxing that twin I/O single engine a few weeks ago on raceday. Hey, I'm a v drive fan but that I/O was top dog that day.

Freak
03-19-2003, 05:08 PM
I'm guessing some were in the field that day? I just get ticked - it's flat out rude to bash someones trick boat just cause it aint the fastest. You know the old saying - If you don't have something nice to say ......

EricU
03-19-2003, 05:27 PM
Holy Shit! That thing will definately get you some attention!
I think you gotta have some big balls for spending thatg kinda dough on an unknown combo!
Didn't someone build a dual jet Schiada a while back? I have a 21' Whippled Shiada V-drive that I love, just wish I didn't look like such a idiot at the dock!
How about giving me a ride in that thing and I'll drink beer on the way there and with whoever shows up at the dock!
Eric.

superdave013
03-19-2003, 05:32 PM
Freak:
I'm guessing some were in the field that day? I just get ticked - it's flat out rude to bash someones trick boat just cause it aint the fastest. You know the old saying - If you don't have something nice to say ...... point taken

rivercrazy
03-19-2003, 05:47 PM
Freak:
I'm guessing some were in the field that day? I just get ticked - it's flat out rude to bash someones trick boat just cause it aint the fastest. You know the old saying - If you don't have something nice to say ...... Couldn't agree more....

Thunderbutt
03-19-2003, 06:01 PM
The boat is differant, what kind of horse power and R P M's will the pumps handle. Isn't there a dual v-drive with one motor?

burbanite
03-19-2003, 06:22 PM
Freak:
I'm guessing some were in the field that day? I just get ticked - it's flat out rude to bash someones trick boat just cause it aint the fastest. You know the old saying - If you don't have something nice to say ...... Hey, I own a jet hydro so this guy is way down the "bash on other peoples boat" list. :D

Wet Dream
03-19-2003, 06:33 PM
Did anyone take into consideration that the goal might be that kick ass twin roost from a 28'er. Can't get that from a prop job. :D
PS, if the prop guys are so dipleased, why not build one of your own? I'm sure somebody will.

Catmando
03-19-2003, 09:13 PM
The revolutionary Bruce Dual-Jet drive will give larger Vs and cats a chance to mount jet drives. The hole shots will be greatly improved, and time will tell about an increase in top end speed.
Harold Bruce is modifying a 19' Daytona to accept his drive system, so the smaller tunnels will be tested also.
I am shocked at the negative comments about this new drive system. Innovation should be commended, not derided.
[ March 20, 2003, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: Catmando ]

Mandelon
03-19-2003, 09:21 PM
Don't let the skeptics bother you...... wink

Catmando
03-19-2003, 09:23 PM
Mandelon:
Don't let the skeptics bother you...... wink Right, you should see the stuff I stir up on OSO. eek! :D

future boater
03-19-2003, 11:46 PM
Catmando:
Innovation should be encouraged, not derided.

Craig
03-20-2003, 03:30 AM
[/QUOTE]Right, you should see the stuff I stir up on OSO. eek! :D [/QB][/QUOTE]
I've seen some of that, at least until they started charging a fee just to look at a picture! frown

Catmando
03-20-2003, 10:05 AM
"Innovation should be COMMENDED..." Better word, I was tired when I posted that.

All Jets
03-20-2003, 08:33 PM
First, I would like to thank everyone who has sent me their positive comments. Here are more pictures so you all can see how the boat sits in the water, how incredibly quick it goes on plane and one pass. I will continue to keep all those interested up to date on the progress that we continue to make.
http://http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Engine_Start.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334Lake_6.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334DSCN0469.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334DSCN0463.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/334DSCN0465.JPG

Jordy
03-20-2003, 08:35 PM
From the looks of that picture, I'm impressed seeing that boat leaving that hard. I'm looking forward to seeing it with the through transom exhaust. One big pipe out the back will be a topic of discussion. :D

Jordy
03-20-2003, 09:00 PM
RiverDave:
That thing looks like it leaves pretty hard! :) Dammit RD you need to scale back on the drugs, you're making an echo in here. :D
As far as a convential motor, I don't know that I'd mess with it getting 1300 (or something like that) out of that turbine is pretty sweet. Have to throw a boatload (pun intended) of money into a V8 to get that kind of reliable power. Not to mention, you'd lose the power to weight and the unique factor.

Just Tool'n
03-20-2003, 10:26 PM
For a big boat that thing leaves really hard. Are there trim tabs on that boat?
What kind of hp is the turbine capable of.
Did you see the show extreme boats on travel channel the other day.I did not realize that such big ferry boats used jet propulsion in such large boats.
It is great to be a trend setter isn't it!

Jordy
03-20-2003, 10:27 PM
That boat leaves ****in' hard. I've never seen anything like that. :D

bigq
03-20-2003, 10:52 PM
Jeez that thing leaves pretty hard, I don't think I've seen that before. wink yes had to. :D

Cole
03-21-2003, 09:20 AM
I was there that day when they were testing.......
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HARD THAT BOAT TAKES OFF, IT LITERALLY LAUNCHES INTO THE AIR AND IS UP TO 75MPH IN JUST SECONDS......THE "G" FORCE THAT IT MUST PUT TO THE DRIVER ON "TAKE OFF" MUST BE UNREAL.
The boat is a HUGE 28' boat, to see something that large accelerate that fast is a "must see"!!!!
It was strange when we were on the water the boat is VERY quite when they made there pass, we were probably 150' away and I was expecting a jet airline to come screaming by....but it wasn't!!
I was considering putting the twin jet behind a 26'tunnel and was told it would launch that boat from 0-90 in like 5 seconds with about 700hp and with some tweaking could be at 100mph..or more, but I have decided to leave the testing to someone else at this point...I just don't have the funds right now to throw around on testing!!
This is for real and a must see...and maybe a wave of the future!! Goodluck!!!

miller19j
03-21-2003, 09:29 AM
Jordy,
I don’t know if you noticed but that thing leaves pretty hard!
All kidding aside.
It is a really neat project. I like it when people try something new and innovative. Without thinking like this we would never end up with new technology. The setup looks really clean as well. Keep us updated.

hack job
03-21-2003, 09:55 AM
good to see that you answered my question ! this is stolen technology. thats why they dont answer my question. burningm
if iam wrong please tell me and post your reply , ill be happy to congratulate you on your acomplishment. :confused:
[ March 21, 2003, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: hack job ]

superV
03-21-2003, 10:11 AM
hack job:
good to see that you answered my question ! this is stole technology. thats why they dont answer my question. burningm
if iam wrong please tell me and post your reply , ill be happy to congratulate you on your acomplishment. :confused: Who gives a ****! :o Take it some where else... argue
We have all heard anuff of this kind of B.S. around hear for the next year. cry

superdave013
03-21-2003, 10:14 AM
hack job:
good to see that you answered my question ! this is stole technology. thats why they dont answer my question. burningm
if iam wrong please tell me and post your reply , ill be happy to congratulate you on your acomplishment. :confused: You better becarefull Tyson. Those are pretty stong words.

hack job
03-21-2003, 10:35 AM
superV:
hack job:
good to see that you answered my question ! this is stole technology. thats why they dont answer my question. burningm
if iam wrong please tell me and post your reply , ill be happy to congratulate you on your acomplishment. :confused: Who gives a ****! :o Take it some where else... argue
We have all heard anuff of this kind of B.S. around hear for the next year. cry my point is that if you did a bunch of work and some other dude came along and took all that you had did and tired to sell it that would make you pretty mad. iam not sure if this is what happened but i have been told by more than one source that is what happened , i feel for Dave Jones on this he did some work to make some thing new and to improve the boating community and this is how he got thanked.
i would think that if i was wrong that some one would have said some thing. its like i said if iam wrong please tell me and it will go away that quick. i would love to see this project take off it would mean that jets arent as bad as people think , and that some of these people that build big boats would have anther option when shopping for a new drive system or when they buy there boat anther option.. iam not slaming this product you know what it really dosent matter! good luck on your project. wink
[ March 21, 2003, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: hack job ]

superV
03-21-2003, 10:41 AM
hack job:
superV:
hack job:
good to see that you answered my question ! this is stole technology. thats why they dont answer my question. burningm
if iam wrong please tell me and post your reply , ill be happy to congratulate you on your acomplishment. :confused: Who gives a ****! :o Take it some where else... argue
We have all heard anuff of this kind of B.S. around hear for the next year. cry my point is that if you did a bunch of work and some other dude came along and took all that you had did and tired to sell it that would make you pretty mad. iam not sure if this is what happened but i have been told by more than one source that is what happened , i feel for Dave Jones on this he did some work to make some thing new and to improve the boating community and this is how he got thanked.
i would think that if i was wrong that some one would have said some thing. its like i said if iam wrong please tell me and it will go away that quick. i would love to see this project take off it would mean that jets arent as bad as people think , and that some of these people that build big boats would have anther option when shopping for a new drive system or when they buy there boat anther option.. iam not slaming this product you know what it really dosent matter! good luck on your project. wink I agree with your opionion but I think it should be addressed with a PM rather than in a public forum. If indeed you do find out this to be true than post it. Until then keep it between those involved. wink

Cole
03-21-2003, 11:04 AM
Hackjob,it doesn't sound like you know all the details of what happened between the two parties, rather just starting accusing someone of "stealing."
I don't know the first thing of what happened, but all i know is that at least someone is trying....i don't think there are any patents pending on the project, which would tell me that its open for ANYONE to go forward ....just my 2 cents Cole

andy01
03-21-2003, 11:08 AM
superV:
hack job:
superV:
hack job:
good to see that you answered my question ! this is stole technology. thats why they dont answer my question. burningm
if iam wrong please tell me and post your reply , ill be happy to congratulate you on your acomplishment. :confused: Who gives a ****! :o Take it some where else... argue
We have all heard anuff of this kind of B.S. around hear for the next year. cry my point is that if you did a bunch of work and some other dude came along and took all that you had did and tired to sell it that would make you pretty mad. iam not sure if this is what happened but i have been told by more than one source that is what happened , i feel for Dave Jones on this he did some work to make some thing new and to improve the boating community and this is how he got thanked.
i would think that if i was wrong that some one would have said some thing. its like i said if iam wrong please tell me and it will go away that quick. i would love to see this project take off it would mean that jets arent as bad as people think , and that some of these people that build big boats would have anther option when shopping for a new drive system or when they buy there boat anther option.. iam not slaming this product you know what it really dosent matter! good luck on your project. wink I agree with your opionion but I think it should be addressed with a PM rather than in a public forum. If indeed you do find out this to be true than post it. Until then keep it between those involved. wink This is a PUBLIC forum where people are to share info and ask questions. If someone is interested in knowing something I see nothing wrong with them asking IN THE FORUM WHERE PEOPLE ARE TO ASK QUESTIONS AND SHARE THIER IDEAS!
BTW that mother ****er leaves hard! that would be great to have that much punch out in the ocean and fly off of waves! Nice project I was just sharing my thoughts before, but I have to relise that most people are bitchs here now days and don't like when some has a different thought then what the thread was intended for. Keep us posted on how fast the top end ends up being. (I won't post on it I'll just read it)
Andy

Blown509Liberator
03-21-2003, 11:29 AM
Turbine freaks check this out ...On Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2407449605&category=26432
http://www.techsalesandservices.com/ebay/fountain/boatm.jpg

superV
03-21-2003, 11:35 AM
racingrascal:
superV:
hack job:
superV:
hack job:
good to see that you answered my question ! this is stole technology. thats why they dont answer my question. burningm
if iam wrong please tell me and post your reply , ill be happy to congratulate you on your acomplishment. :confused: Who gives a ****! :o Take it some where else... argue
We have all heard anuff of this kind of B.S. around hear for the next year. cry my point is that if you did a bunch of work and some other dude came along and took all that you had did and tired to sell it that would make you pretty mad. iam not sure if this is what happened but i have been told by more than one source that is what happened , i feel for Dave Jones on this he did some work to make some thing new and to improve the boating community and this is how he got thanked.
i would think that if i was wrong that some one would have said some thing. its like i said if iam wrong please tell me and it will go away that quick. i would love to see this project take off it would mean that jets arent as bad as people think , and that some of these people that build big boats would have anther option when shopping for a new drive system or when they buy there boat anther option.. iam not slaming this product you know what it really dosent matter! good luck on your project. wink I agree with your opionion but I think it should be addressed with a PM rather than in a public forum. If indeed you do find out this to be true than post it. Until then keep it between those involved. wink This is a PUBLIC forum where people are to share info and ask questions. If someone is interested in knowing something I see nothing wrong with them asking IN THE FORUM WHERE PEOPLE ARE TO ASK QUESTIONS AND SHARE THIER IDEAS!
BTW that mother ****er leaves hard! that would be great to have that much punch out in the ocean and fly off of waves! Nice project I was just sharing my thoughts before, but I have to relise that most people are bitchs here now days and don't like when some has a different thought then what the thread was intended for. Keep us posted on how fast the top end ends up being. (I won't post on it I'll just read it)
Andy It is one thing to ask its another to accuse someone of of stealing.(i.e. "this is stole technology")BTW who you callin Bithchs? You dont live far anuff away from me to call me a bitch :D J/K

Freak
03-21-2003, 12:27 PM
LoL this so called - bitchs - would like to call you on what you just said. So if this forum is to - IN THE FORUM WHERE PEOPLE ARE TO ASK QUESTIONS AND SHARE THIER IDEAS - you think is was ok to state that the boat in question is a big waste of money because it is not as fast as you think it should be? What a great idea to share, or was that a question. How about you were sharing a uncalled for opinion. Let some air out of that over inflated head of yours. I guess it would have not stung at all if someone would have come into your post of your new boat and stated. Wow - just another Mach - not the trickiest or FASTEST and a unimaginative paint job. It won’t get a second look on the water. Why are you wasting my time posting it? He is proud of his equip just as you are of yours. Get my drift.

superV
03-21-2003, 12:44 PM
Freak:
LoL this so called - bitchs - would like to call you on what you just said. So if this forum is to - IN THE FORUM WHERE PEOPLE ARE TO ASK QUESTIONS AND SHARE THIER IDEAS - you think is was ok to state that the boat in question is a big waste of money because it is not as fast as you think it should be? What a great idea to share, or was that a question. How about you were sharing a uncalled for opinion. Let some air out of that over inflated head of yours. I guess it would have not stung at all if someone would have come into your post of your new boat and stated. Wow - just another Mach - not the trickiest or FASTEST and a unimaginative paint job. It won’t get a second look on the water. Why are you wasting my time posting it? He is proud of his equip just as you are of yours. Get my drift. True Dat! wink

Freak
03-21-2003, 01:05 PM
That squirrel avatar is great. It makes me laugh all the time. 2 babies fell out of a tree the other day. I am raising them. They just opened their eyes. One male one female. The male climbs all over the place.
[ March 21, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Freak ]

Hallett19
03-23-2003, 08:45 PM
Why are some of you guys so negative about this ? Obviously this guy wasnt looking for the fastest boat on the water when designing this boat with these drives, more the uniqueness of twin jets on a huge boat with a turbine. Originality is half the fun of boats. If he put #6 drives on it or arneson drives, people have done that already and its proven to be FAST, but the jets is cool and original. And it goes to prove jets ARENT only for small boats for hauling ass. I am a fan of all drives, I'm not partial to jets because I own one and one day want a v drive and an outboard and outdrive boat to see what my favorite is. Good work on that beatiful boat All Jets, great install, super clean and good numbers !!!
[ March 23, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Hallett19 ]

Cole
03-24-2003, 07:44 AM
That's a great point, if he wanted the fastest he could have built a 36 skater, twin jets engines, dual outdrives,canopied etc.etc,and have a very fast rocket....The 0-75 mph in some 4 seconds in a HEAVY boat is as much of an accomplishment as a 36 skater that will do 150mph....Everyone is so tunnel vision on top end
(including myself) that we should open our eyes to different and new ideas!! Cole idea

jetfan
03-24-2003, 09:19 PM
To all of you that have followed the Dual Drive jet system for the last year, I can tell you all from my own personal knowledge that the system works extremely well. I have driven 2 boats that have it, as well as seen the 28' "All Jet" boat that this recent forum is about. I was present for one of its recent outings, and there is no question that this huge 28' boat explodes out of the hole like nothing else I've ever seen for a boat that big. Furthermore, I've also driven a 21' Ultra that has been retrofitted with the Dual Drive, as well as a new 25' Howard that was originally installed with the Dual Drive, and both of these boats flat out fly. What's even more impressive, is that the great performance is accompanied by even greater fuel efficency - which means that the motor is working easier - all the while the boat is running faster. In other words, I found that these boats are extremely quick out of the hole with lots of torque, and that they cruise at higher speeds at a lower rpm. It doesn't get much better than that!For those who are still skeptical, all I can say is go for a ride, try it out, and you'll be either retrofitting your boat, or trading in your old boat for a new one - spec'd with the Dual Drive set up. Since I have a 19' jet, I'm currently in the latter catagory. So if anyone is interested in my cherry 19' Carribean, let me know, since I'm looking to buy a new 21'-23' boat and have it originally built with a Dual Drive - as I know for a fact that it will flat out fly, and give me better efficency than my current 19'jet!

Catmando
03-24-2003, 10:01 PM
I believe the Carlson 24' air-entrapment V bottom would be an excellent candidate for the Bruce Drive. However, I am planning on racing it offshore in 2004. My question would be; how will the drives react to being out of the water during launches? I've heard that jet drives don't like that.

Catmando
03-24-2003, 10:02 PM
Catmando:
I believe the Carlson 24' air-entrapment V bottom I'm buying would be an excellent candidate for the Bruce Drive. However, I am planning on racing it offshore in 2004. My question would be; how will the drives react to being out of the water during launches? I've heard that jet drives don't like that.

Mrs. H B of R&D Marine
03-26-2003, 05:11 PM
To answer your question Re: Who came up with the Dual Drive Design...........
First let me give you some insight about Harold Bruce. Anyone who has followed Harold’s racing career for 30 + years knows that he has set records and won in every class of racing that he has entered fairly and honestly. His reputation precedes him. Harold went to Major Brass (NOT AGGRESSOR or DAVE JONES) to have them cast an Intake. Dave Jones got wind of Harold’s new design and wanted it to be an Aggressor invention for Aggressor pumps only. Harold said “ NO” this is for all the pump manufactures. This idea was Harold Bruce’s of R & D Marine!
Aggressor’s idea of originality is forgetting the source. We appreciate your positive response in regards to the Dual Drives System. We will post more info as we do more Testing. The larger boats (21’ to 28’) handle like an 18 “ ski boat and the fuel economy is comparable or better than the I O’s. So far all of the Dual Drive boats get on plane to a cruising speed of 40 MPH in approximately 4 to 5 seconds running between 2800 to 3200 RPM. For further information, please contact Harold Bruce with R&D Marine at (714) 993-2664
Thank you for your time
P.S. Coming Soon……….Our website at WWW.dualdrives.com (http://WWW.dualdrives.com)

disco_charger
03-26-2003, 05:26 PM
Mrs. H B of R&D Marine:
To answer your question Re: Who came up with the Dual Drive Design...........
First let me give you some insight about Harold Bruce. Anyone who has followed Harold’s racing career for 30 + years knows that he has set records and won in every class of racing that he has entered fairly and honestly. His reputation precedes him. Harold went to Major Brass (NOT AGGRESSOR or DAVE JONES) to have them cast an Intake. Dave Jones got wind of Harold’s new design and wanted it to be an Aggressor invention for Aggressor pumps only. Harold said “ NO” this is for all the pump manufactures. This idea was Harold Bruce’s of R & D Marine!
Aggressor’s idea of originality is forgetting the source. We appreciate your positive response in regards to the Dual Drives System. We will post more info as we do more Testing. The larger boats (21’ to 28’) handle like an 18 “ ski boat and the fuel economy is comparable or better than the I O’s. So far all of the Dual Drive boats get on plane to a cruising speed of 40 MPH in approximately 4 to 5 seconds running between 2800 to 3200 RPM. For further information, please contact Harold Bruce with R&D Marine at (714) 993-2664
Thank you for your time
P.S. Coming Soon……….Our website at WWW.dualdrives.com (http://WWW.dualdrives.com) I have followed Harold's career, and was there for the white, blue and yellow SJ Eliminator. I was there when the rubber duck flew off the transom at 100mph through the lights, I was there for the little message inside his carb bowl when he went to rejet.
As for who's idea the Dual drive is, if someone was wronged, I would expect a lawsuit. I haven't heard of one. So, I would think that most of you would realize the court of public opinion is rarely informed enough to be accurate. I commend, Dave, Harold and whoever who work to make my hobby any easier. As for this little forum, I have to laugh that anyone would get their blood pressure up about anything posted in here. wink

Catmando
04-23-2003, 07:40 PM
TTT

Catmando
04-23-2003, 10:37 PM
I just tried that site and it's not up yet. I know it's only been a month since this thread was started, but does anyone connected with DualDrives have an idea when it WILL be up?
[ April 23, 2003, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: Catmando ]

Kwicherbichen
04-23-2003, 11:47 PM
I ran into Harold last summer at Lake Elsinore, took a ride in a dual drive Ultra and talked with him about making the site. I spoke to his partner via email once after that but haven't heard anything else. I guess that means they aren't using me cry
I spoke to both Dave & Harold about the dual drive system. Each had their own version of the agreement and I couldn't make heads or tails of it. As best as I could put it together, there were no contracts and a lot of misunderstandings.
As for "stolen technology". For me, based on the stories I heard from both parties, it was too hard for me to determine who did or didn't do what they agreed to do. On that note, lots of stuff is stolen and brought to market. It's my opinion that the most reliable system with the best customer service will prevail. Personally, I thought Aggressor would have beat Harold to market based on the fact it has Major Brass Foundry behind it and they probably have more cash for marketing. Just one of things I guess.

Catmando
04-24-2003, 09:18 AM
Harold and I talked about rerigging my Carlson raceboat, but I just bought it and I don't have the money to do the conversion. I'm keen to do it, though. With that kind of acceleration, I should be all but unbeatable in any class I choose to run in.

Cole
04-24-2003, 10:04 AM
Anything done with the 19 daytona he's been talking about??
HB the king of getting things done quick!!
Cole :mad:

jlnorthrup122
06-01-2003, 07:58 PM
What the **** is this

superdave013
06-02-2003, 06:46 AM
Cole:
Anything done with the 19 daytona he's been talking about??
HB the king of getting things done quick!!
Cole :mad: I hear he's working on it. Had to make the center pod wider for the new intake. That's what I was told anyway.

Cs19
06-02-2003, 08:07 AM
the rumor i heard is he has to cut the thing in half to make the boat wider, hes using an old raceboat that was crashed at the river for the guinea pig its blue and white and named blue thunder(19 daytona-not the other blue thunder that crashed at ming).I saw the boat and it looks really damaged.