Sandbar Death, Follow-up

[twistedpair]

From Friday's Las Vegas Review-Journal:
KINGMAN, Ariz. -- A California man jailed after a fistfight on the Colorado River was released Wednesday from the Mohave County jail.
Prosecutor Jace Zack said authorities lacked sufficient evidence to file a formal complaint against James Robert Parker, 21, of Ontario.
Authorities said Parker squared off with Carlos Navarro, 25, during a Saturday encounter at Blankenship Bend, a sandbar where boaters congregate a few miles north of Lake Havasu.
Deputies responding to the altercation arranged for the transportation of Navarro, who was pronounced dead at University Medical Center in Las Vegas.
Zack said an initial autopsy conducted by the Clark County coroner's office was inconclusive. Authorities await the results of toxicology tests.
Unbelieveable..........

[HCS]

That is pretty crazy, sounds like someone's dodging bullets. eek!

[victorfb]

oh my god..... this guy kills, no make that murders someone and gets off, and on the same day i get busted and kicked off the water for not having a throw cushion. my fine is $52.00 and thats probably $52.00 more than he got.
burningm

[victorfb]

oh and i didnt mean the mad guy to be towards the ticket. i was at fault i know. im just furrious that this guy is gunna walk.

[Boozer]

So does this mean it is okay to murder people at the sandbar?? I honestly hope this guy doesn't get off.
What more proof do you need? The guy beat his friend to death at the sandbar. Many people witnessed it happen.
Murder in the 2nd degree and so far he is walking. This tells me that somebody obviously screwed up bad. I wonder if his death wound up being the result of improper medical treatment rather then the beating his friend gave him. Regardless, this guy beat him so badly he is no longer breathing.

[HCS]

victorfb:
oh my god..... this guy kills, no make that murders someone and gets off, and on the same day i get busted and kicked off the water for not having a throw cushion. my fine is $52.00 and thats probably $52.00 more than he got.
burningm Type IV personal floatation device. :rolleyes:

[RiverToysJas]

Granted, I didn't read all 4-5 pages of the other thread......but is it possible that this guy that was killed was actually a physical threat to the one who killed him and the arrested thought the only way to incapacitate him would be to smash his face into a prop. Sure it's a kill shot, but if the fight was fast and furious, you have to do what you have to do to defend yourself. I firmly believe there are no rules in street fighting.
I wasn't there and I didn't see any post from anyone who actually saw the whole thing go down, so I could be way off base. BUT if there were witnesses and it was murder or unjustified, I don't think the authorities would have just let the guy walk. I don't have much faith in the system, but I have enough to think they would have held or charged the guy if they could have.
RTJas

[Waldo]

I was going to say the same thing RiverToys. It's all heresay.

[Boozer]

RiverToysJas:
this guy that was killed was actually a physical threat to the one who killed him and the arrested thought the only way to incapacitate him would be to smash his face into a prop. Sure it's a kill shot, but if the fight was fast and furious, you have to do what you have to do to defend yourself. I firmly believe there are no rules in street fighting.
RTJas So you are saying it is okay to smash someones face into a prop? You and I get into a fight and we'll say you're bigger then me and beating my ass so it's okay for me to slam your head into a prop? So now your wife and kids are left without a husband/father. There are simply things you do NOT do in a fight, taking a kill shot is not one of them. You take your ass beating like a man and walk away with it.
In the case of this fight the guy who was killed was in no way a threat to the guy who beat him. Apparently the guy who beat him was a steroid pumping lunatic that was a lot bigger then him. At least, this is what I was told by the people on the forum who seen this fight and a good friend of mine who also witenessed it.

[HCS]

In street fighting there is such a law called
mutual combat. If neither person is determined
to be at falt the fight is considered mutual.
No one is blamed and you both go on your way.
Except for in this case one guy really went on his
own way. Six feet under on his way.
I still find it hard to believe they let the guy out
of jail. They must have come to the conclusion that
he was only 50 percent to blame for his actions.
[ July 26, 2003, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: HARDCORE-SKI ]

[Jungle Boy]

Boozer:
RiverToysJas:
this guy that was killed was actually a physical threat to the one who killed him and the arrested thought the only way to incapacitate him would be to smash his face into a prop. Sure it's a kill shot, but if the fight was fast and furious, you have to do what you have to do to defend yourself. I firmly believe there are no rules in street fighting.
RTJas So you are saying it is okay to smash someones face into a prop? You and I get into a fight and we'll say you're bigger then me and beating my ass so it's okay for me to slam your head into a prop? So now your wife and kids are left without a husband/father. There are simply things you do NOT do in a fight, taking a kill shot is not one of them. You take your ass beating like a man and walk away with it.
In the case of this fight the guy who was killed was in no way a threat to the guy who beat him. Apparently the guy who beat him was a steroid pumping lunatic that was a lot bigger then him. At least, this is what I was told by the people on the forum who seen this fight and a good friend of mine who also witenessed it. Street fight or not - It's no ****ing reason to kill someone. That's just a little extreme I'd say. I'm 100% with Boozer - You take your beating and you nurse your wounds. To kill a guy over a stupid dispute is ****ing ridiculous. I thought that they only let people walk for shit like that in Canada. I hope he's very happy and drinking beer at the sand bar next weekend and you can say "good fight man, you did what you had to do, can I buy you a drink". **** me. argue eek!

[RacerX]

Just beacuse he was released does not mean he won't be charged at a later date. The D.A. only has a certain amount of time to either charge the guy or release him while they continue their investigation. It could be that they want to interview all the witnesses before they take this thing in front of a judge. I'm sure there's plenty of conflicting stories out there.
For what it's worth, In California, you can use whatever force is necessary (and "reasonable") to protct yourself if you feel your life (or your family for that matter) is in danger of death or serious bodily injury. Now, of course it's up to the court to decide if your actions were reasonable. Kind of like if you're in some dark alley and 5-6 gangsters come at you and want your girlfriend...you happen to have a gun but they just have their fists...you can still shoot them to protect yourself and your girlfriend from what "may" happen. That would be resonable to most people.
**Maybe** the victim in this case was taunting the suspect all day and was the agressor in the incident. When the guy retaliated, he hit him just right (or wrong) and that killed him. I don't know...I wasn't there but there are many possibilities.

[You Te]

It sounds like the guy is a friend of OJ's.
Uncle Tony

[HCS]

You Te:
It sounds like the guy is a friend of OJ's.
Uncle Tony Maybe the glove didn't fit, so they let him go. :p

[Charley]

either way it's manslaughter...right? AT THE VERY LEAST it's manslaughter... I wanna know who this 21 year old kid is and who his daddy knows in the DA's office! :mad:

[Charley]

all this other talk about self defense and street fighting and rules is not a legal reason to at excuse the guy from a manslaughter charge. Something smells... is he related to the Kennedy family? jawdrop

[Just Tool'n]

I can not believe that he is getting off!
I dont see self defense here.
I do not care what was being fought over, it was not worth the mans life.

[H20Advantage]

As was said before he can still be charged. Working these type of cases take time. Once you arrest someone the clock starts ticking and they have the right to a speedy trial.
The DA will get the toxicology reports and autopsy reports, have the witnesses reinterviewed, and see if there are any additional witnesses. Look at both peoples past history for violence, ect. Then when they go to court with this case it is airtight and the guy can't claim self defense. the case will be refiled and the guy will be arrested again and restart the clock from zero again.
If it happened to you wouldn't you want all the facts looked at fairly closely before being sent to jail for a long, long time. I would and I also would not want this guy to get off on some technicality (and there are many) or some pertinant piece of evidence is suppressed if he is guilty because everyone rushes the investigation. O.J is a great example of this.

[burbanite]

I get the impression that there are people on this forum that were there at the time. Some may have witnessed at least part of the incident.
Boozer said his friend saw the fight.
Where are these people and have they gone to the police to offer their assistance? They could very well play a big part in determining the truth about this tragedy and help to avert another.
You want your sandbar back? You had better stand up and reclaim it then.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

burbanite:
I get the impression that there are people on this forum that were there at the time. Some may have witnessed at least part of the incident.
Boozer said his friend saw the fight.
Where are these people and have they gone to the police to offer their assistance? They could very well play a big part in determining the truth about this tragedy and help to avert another.
You want your sandbar back? You had better stand up and reclaim it then. great post I agree. wink

[RiverToysJas]

Boozer:
So you are saying it is okay to smash someones face into a prop? You and I get into a fight and we'll say you're bigger then me and beating my ass so it's okay for me to slam your head into a prop? So now your wife and kids are left without a husband/father. There are simply things you do NOT do in a fight, taking a kill shot is not one of them. You take your ass beating like a man and walk away with it.
Yes, that's what am saying! If I'm kicking your ass and you feel your life is threatened by me, you are within your rights to use whatever force is reasonable to defend yourself and save your life (I am not saying that IS what happened in this case, simply stating it's possible. As for my wife and kids, I should have thought of that before I started kicking your ass). When your life is threatened, you use your skills and your environment to survive. Now, if we are in 2-3' of water, wearing bathing suits, with nothing of use to help fend off an assailant, a sharp prop might look pretty good as a weapon. The other option would be to hold him underwater, possibly just as leathal, it would probably be my first choice to take the fight out of someone though.
I'm a reasonable person, this story sounds like a clear case of excessive force. BUT maybe there's more to the story, that's all I'm saying.
As for taking your beating like a man, I don't believe in that (I don't think you'd just roll over like the French and let someone kick the shit out of you either - who would?). I'd fight back with all I had. But first I'd avoid the fight in the first place, if at all possible.
RTJas

[RiverToysJas]

Just Tool'n:
I dont see self defense here.
I personally don't see enough facts here to make a judgement on wheather is self defence or excessive force. I do see almost everyone assuming excessive force though (and that may be the case).
RTJas

[You Te]

I might expecet to see the suspect charged with involuntary man slaughter or possibly manslaughter,depending on the accounts of anyone who witnessed the altercation.
Let this be a lesson to all of you........a chicken that runs and hides away, will live to run another day. :D :D :D
You Te

[Sandbar Junkies]

You Te:
Let this be a lesson to all of you........a chicken that runs and hides away, will live to run another day. :D :D :D
You Te We live in a sad world. The sandbar on a Sat. afternoon is VERY busy and the fact that they got in fight is one thing but did anyone have the courage to try to stop this or did everyone just sit back and watch this guy get MURDERED. I know one thing when some is getting beat to death there is a time to step up and try to stop it.

[Seadog]

Anything can still happen. While it is unusual not to hold a suspect over, there could be problems with going before the judge now. If they take the case to court too early and lose, he gets off wirh no chance to lock him up in the future.
What I worry about is that his buds are the only witnesses to say anything and their version is based on factors other than fact.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

We will agree with that . it should have been stopped. We were at the sandbar a month ago or so and an older man and a young kid were fighting over something. There were alot of people around and no one seemed to stop it. They stopped on there own. But who's to say one of them could have got really hurt. That one should have been stopped also. It started over where someone was going to park at the sandbar. The stupid f85kin fights that get started up over stupid stuff is just dumb. If you were going to park somewhere and someone takes your spot and want to fight you over it let them have it. It is not worth the trouble of losing a friend or family member over just move because if you don't it may start up a fight about something else. Like who has the coldest beer. Let them have it and move on. Go enjoy your day with some descent people.That don't want to fight. Just out to have fun not lose a life!!

[CALIFORNIA PERFORMANCE]

Try to stop a fight? :( Not me never agian.Long story short. Some guy was getting his head stomped. So I started to break it up and pulled a few off. I had 4 witness that said I was pulling people off. The Victom said I might of hit him :confused: . The guy was knocked out, what the hell does he know? :mad: But I lost that deal :rolleyes: .It is hard anymore. In my eyes you can help someone out or get screwed doing it. All this fighting crap is a waste. No one wins and chicks don't dig it.After all half the people at the sandbar are looking for chicks. But hey WHAT THE HELL DO I KNOW. wink

[Sandbar Junkies]

CALIFORNIA PERFORMANCE:
. But hey WHAT THE HELL DO I KNOW. wink You know how to pic a very cool avatar. :D

[You Te]

Maybe the best way to break up a fight at the sandbar is to throw sand in their eyes. eek! eek! eek! eek! eek! eek!
You Te

[CALIFORNIA PERFORMANCE]

Man i love it. I find my self starring at them and not the post. :D

[hot_diggity_dog]

Like I always say wait for all of the facts before making comments on the case. wink
Every situation is different and it is easy for everyone to play Monday morning quarterback, this situation had one opportunity for every witness to help stop the death, or watch the death take place. wink
As far as the do what you have to do attitude, I agree, but you still have to look yourself in the mirror everyday, and live with all of your actions for the rest of your life. wink
In most cases, to almost all cases of fighting, the people involved are just worthless ASSHOLE'S. :rolleyes: :mad:
I guess we could put up a fenced area for any of these types. We could put them in there as a free for all untill only one person is left standing, while we drink beer and watch the ladies dance with their pasties and G-strings on! :D :rolleyes:
HDD :cool:

[Wet Dream]

victorfb:
oh my god..... this guy kills, no make that murders someone and gets off, and on the same day i get busted and kicked off the water for not having a throw cushion. my fine is $52.00 and thats probably $52.00 more than he got.
burningm He spent 5 days in jail, wondering if he is going to spend the rest of his life in jail. Monday through Wednesday, thats 3 days that he couldn't work, and you're crying because you lost $52? Go buy a throwable and go back to the water.
What the hell happened to self defense? Survival? If Parker is a little guy compared to Navarro, Parker sees an opportunity to avoid getting himself seriously mamed or killed himself, he uses any means possible. The prop just happened to be a way out for Parker. Some of you guys go way too deep in this and see only one side.

[HCS]

Wet Dream:
victorfb:
oh my god..... this guy kills, no make that murders someone and gets off, and on the same day i get busted and kicked off the water for not having a throw cushion. my fine is $52.00 and thats probably $52.00 more than he got.
burningm He spent 5 days in jail, wondering if he is going to spend the rest of his life in jail. Monday through Wednesday, thats 3 days that he couldn't work, and you're crying because you lost $52? Go buy a throwable and go back to the water.
What the hell happened to self defense? Survival? If Parker is a little guy compared to Navarro, Parker sees an opportunity to avoid getting himself seriously mamed or killed himself, he uses any means possible. The prop just happened to be a way out for Parker. Some of you guys go way too deep in this and see only one side. That is pretty pitiful,
He's worried about 52 bucks. :rolleyes:

[Ziggy]

He did say he deserved the ticket and wasn't bitchen about it..just the fact the guy is walking right now.

[Mullet]

Ive watched enough law and order to know he isnt getting off that easy.....