Lavey 21XTSki, Merc 6.2L

[Charlie Sanger]

Can anyone give me any info about this particular set-up? My wife and I are taking delivery of a new Lavey 21XTSki with the 320HP Merc in two weeks and any real world performance info would be appreciated. As a side note, the service and professionalism at Lavey are top notch.

[RiverToysJas]

I'm VERY happy with mine. I chose the XTSki with 375hp 496 big block, because I wanted to go 70mph and have more torque for skiing. The hull itself though is great in all water conditions. It has not dissappointed me yet. There an article in the new Hot Boat about the XCS, same bottom. As they state, the boat likes trim. We chose the hull for a variety of reason, ride quality being a big one. Even in big lake chop, we think it rides smooth and mostly dry. I've been soaked by bow spray only once, and it was in BIG white capped chop at Thompson Bay, on Havasu.
Mine is under proped with a 22" Bravo. I've tried the 23" Rev 4 and got a solid 67mph with two large males and about 45 gallons of fuel on board. I should see right at 70 with a 24" wheel. Mid range cruise is great though. With that 23" prop I was seeing high 50s at 4000.
I'm very happy with mine and I'm sure you'll like your. There are photos of mine being built at www.rivertoys.com. (http://www.rivertoys.com.)
RTJas :D

[01RENEGADE]

I also have been looking at the same boat.But not sure if I want to go longer.I allready have a 21 but the lavey is a deeper 21 than what I have. I would also be going with the 496 mag.Seems that lavey is a little high priced for a 21 but it is a great boat also looking at the essex 22 vortex big 22 im not in a hurry but i rally want a bigger boat soon.Been to both shops and they are first rate builders my brother inlaw has a 21 xt-ski and he has been happy but still only a 21.

[RiverToysJas]

Any other builder would call the Lavey a 23. It measures just under 23', tip to tip. That does include the swim step, but that is still usable area. It's actually a pretty big "21" all the way around. The first time out in mine we ended up with 9 people in the boat and it was fine. I have 6-8 in it from time to time and there's plenty of room for everyone. I wouldn't get the 24', as I see it as an in between size. Not a stand up boat driver and not much more room than the 21. In fact, in the walk through configuration, the 21 has much more room. Just my opinions though. Yeah, Lavey is a bit pricey, I feel you get what you pay for though.
RTJas :D

[Havasu Hangin']

RiverToysJas:
With that 23" prop I was seeing high 50s at 4000..GPS?

[01RENEGADE]

Jas... how does yours ride on a sat at havasu, how does it handel chop, do you ever wish you had gone bigger? I spent alot of time talking to Chris at lavey and he showed me the whole building process. He also said that i would be better off to wait till oct to buy a 03 and to get my order in before the price increse of the 04's I can say that they do make a awsome boat if I were to do it right now it would be lavey or essex i am really trying to research this so that I make a well educated decesion. Also how does your boat stand up to the pounding at havasu? does it rattle or does it fill solid?

[RiverToysJas]

Havasu Hangin':
RiverToysJas:
With that 23" prop I was seeing high 50s at 4000..GPS? That's a fact! Check this month's Hot Boat for details on what a 24" will do at 4,000. wink

[Jrocket]

Havasu Hangin':
RiverToysJas:
With that 23" prop I was seeing high 50s at 4000..GPS? NO...more like "JBG" :D

[RiverToysJas]

01RENEGADE:
Jas... how does yours ride on a sat at havasu, how does it handel chop, do you ever wish you had gone bigger? I spent alot of time talking to Chris at lavey and he showed me the whole building process. He also said that i would be better off to wait till oct to buy a 03 and to get my order in before the price increse of the 04's I can say that they do make a awsome boat if I were to do it right now it would be lavey or essex i am really trying to research this so that I make a well educated decesion. Also how does your boat stand up to the pounding at havasu? does it rattle or does it fill solid? I am very very happy with the ride of my boat. I've only been through to Havasu on one really blown out Saturday afternoon. I had 6 adults in the boat and it took it all fine. Very solid and very stable. I have not ever yet wished I had a bigger boat, except for ego reasons wink . Actually though, this is all the boat my family needs for a long time. It doesn't rattle at all. The voids in the hull are foamed and that really cuts the noise down. I suggest you take a test ride. I'd be glad to take you out in mine if we're ever out there together. Next planned trip for me is Aug 9th weekend to Laughlin/Needles.
RTJas :D

[Havasu Hangin']

RiverToysJas:
That's a fact! Check this month's Hot Boat for details on what a 24" will do at 4,000.Well...if you had 1.5 gears...you'd have 1% slip, so you must have 1.32 gears in in your boat. At 58MPH, that would be 12% slip...pretty good!
The ole Tugboat spins a 23" to 5,000 RPMs (before the added subs), but she has 1.61 gears...and is nowhere near those fantastic numbers.
WOW! I can't believe it! Hot Boat actually got NEGATIVE slip out of the test boat!
4,000RPMs + 24" prop + 1.5 gears + 61MPH = -6.49999999999995% slip! Someone better call Einstien...Hot Boat just re-wrote physics?
Those Laveys are amazing!
[ July 22, 2003, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Havasu Hangin' ]

[RiverToysJas]

Havasu Hangin':
Those Laveys are amazing! I agree!!! :D

[Jrocket]

And here we go!!! :D

[Havasu Hangin']

RiverToysJas:
I agree! Dare I say...UNBELAVEYABLE!

[01RENEGADE]

Thanks jason. I will be out this weekend at havasu and also the 8th and 9th possibly for the rrx deal.Good to hear about the boat im sure i could not go wrong with Lavey or the Essex. I have a few months to debate it but i could possibly sell my boat sooner now.Peak season?

[Jrocket]

Havasu Hangin':
RiverToysJas:
I agree! Dare I say...UNBELAVEYABLE! Dare,dare,dare!!! :D

[Havasu Hangin']

Jrocket:
Dare,dare,dare!!! :D I bet even Force can't get negative slip out of your...er...thier boats...

[Jrocket]

Havasu Hangin':
Jrocket:
Dare,dare,dare!!! :D I bet even Force can't get negative slip out of your...er...thier boats... A happy customer is a misled customer!! We try our best. :D

[RiverToysJas]

Havasu Hangin':
Jrocket:
Dare,dare,dare!!! :D I bet even Force can't get negative slip out of your...er...thier boats... What's the link to the slip calculator???
RTJas :D

[Havasu Hangin']

Jrocket:
A happy customer is a misled customer!! We try our best.I waiting for the "Lavey me alone on the slip numbers" post...
I bet they forgot to mention that the test conditions were downhill...those Laveys must be coasting...that's it!

[77charger]

RiverToysJas:
Havasu Hangin':
Jrocket:
Dare,dare,dare!!! :D I bet even Force can't get negative slip out of your...er...thier boats... What's the link to the slip calculator???
RTJas :D go to the hill props website.BTW my elim has 7%slip 4800 rpm at 59mph with a 21 3 blade

[Jrocket]

Could have been a real gusty tail wind. :D

[RiverToysJas]

Run these numbers Jeff....23" Prop, 1:5 gears, 5,000 RPM, 67mph. What's that slip???
I don't remember the exact number at 4,000 but I remember thinking it was mid to high 50s. The top end number was 67 for sure though.
RTJas :D

[77charger]

RiverToysJas:
Run these numbers Jeff....23" Prop, 1:5 gears, 5,000 RPM, 67mph. What's that slip???
I don't remember the exact number at 4,000 but I remember thinking it was mid to high 50s. The top end number was 67 for sure though.
RTJas :D I saw him with a big grin on his face driving it too :D .i do have to say his boat was aired out good .

[RiverToysJas]

77charger:
I saw him with a big grin on his face driving it too :D .i do have to say his boat was aired out good . That's right, you witnessed those top end runs!!! It was breaking water further back than it ever had before!!!
RTJas :D

[rivercrazy]

I saw 67 on GPS in RTJ's Lavey with the 23P rev-4. I was the one holding the gps.
For comparision with my 25 Shockwave, the same prop (Jason was borrowing mine) GPS's my boat at 55mph at 4K rpm. With a labbed 25P mirage plus, its 59 at the same rpm.
Box stock Rev-4's are pretty damn efficient props with very low slip

[Havasu Hangin']

RiverToysJas:
Run these numbers Jeff....23" Prop, 1:5 gears, 5,000 RPM, 67mph. What's that slip???7% slip. Pretty good. Even the cat guys would envy those slip numbers.
RiverToysJas:
I don't remember the exact number at 4,000 but I remember thinking it was mid to high 50s. The top end number was 67 for sure though.Hot Boat says 61MPH...not sure that's possible.
Keep in mind that tachs can (and often are) wrong (a little). A tach/dwell meter would be a good way to check.
Also, most props today are variable pitch. That means that not all manufacturers agree on pitch. For example, take a labbed Merc to Hill and they will call it 2" less than Merc (on a pitch-measuring device)- go figure. I guess it makes thier slip numbers look better.
I use slip for a point of reference (and to give friends crap)...
[ July 22, 2003, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Havasu Hangin' ]

[nextasex]

Charlie Sanger, you have made a great decision with Lavey Craft. You will be extremely happy with that boat. The only thing I can recommend is getting all the horsepower that your budget allows you to, you will not go wrong! I have a 26' Lavey Craft and love it. It goes to Catalina Island, Mead, Havasu, and love it.
Good luck,
Frank

[RiverToysJas]

nextasex:
The only thing I can recommend is getting all the horsepower that your budget allows you to, you will not go wrong! I agree!!! Waterndog has a 500hp in his 21' XCS and that thing runs awesome on the big end!!! Stable and fun as hell.
RTJas :D

[roln 20s]

Gotta love the laveys. I would like to throw a little cheer in for the Essex too. Boat nice boats.
My opinion-- buy the same set-up the 21 XCS open/cuddy in ***boat this month has. That boat is all around bad ass. I know its probably not the most practical 21 (i mean 23) but it sure carries the look of a much larger offshore boat. I love it..except for that price..ouch!
Roln 20s

[BENZEEN]

01RENEGADE:
Thanks jason. I will be out this weekend at havasu and also the 8th and 9th possibly for the rrx deal.Good to hear about the boat im sure i could not go wrong with Lavey or the Essex. I have a few months to debate it but i could possibly sell my boat sooner now.Peak season? 01R,
I will be in havasu the first weekend of August. I will be staying at the Islander RV resort. If you want to drive a Vortex with a 496mag(375 HP) W/22 pitch four blade, you are more than welcome. I have never ran a GPS in the boat, but the speedo said 64MPH with two adults and full tanks(60 gallons). The boat handles awsome. In some ugly chop, 4th of July, I was able to run 40MPH without getting beat up too bad.
I too looked very closely at the Lavey 21XTSKI. But I liked the interior layout of the Essex better.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
-Vik

[THOR]

What is the difference between the XCS and the XT Ski?
I hear you guys say the bottom is the same, but what are the other differences?

[BENZEEN]

THOR:
What is the difference between the XCS and the XT Ski?
I hear you guys say the bottom is the same, but what are the other differences? I believe the XCS is the new midcabin, the XTSki is the open bow, and XTC(I think) is the closed deck.
[ July 23, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: BENZEEN ]

[RiverToysJas]

THOR:
What is the difference between the XCS and the XT Ski?
I hear you guys say the bottom is the same, but what are the other differences? XTSki is a "cab-forward" style, walk through, open bow. The dash is moved forward 14 or so inches, compared to the XCS. This allows rear facing jump seats, or more floor space, and ski locker room. You can also move the back seat forward to have more storage in the engine area (this is how one of the XTSki's at the LA Boat Show was set up).
XCS is a traditional closed bow boat. Two forward facing seats and a rear bench. There's a lot less room in this configuration. Under the deck you have the option of two facing lounge seats w/ enough headroom for a 6'er and a V-birth. Starting last year, they began offering this model in the cubby-open configuration (open area is cut out of the closed bow boat). I looked closely at it before I purchased.
IMO, the cuddy "21" trying to do too much with too little. It's also the most expensive configuration you can get the "21" in. By the time you have a 21' Cuddy, you're up close the cost of the 24' (which has more beam too).
Bottoms are the same on the XTSki and XCS, but due to the forward CG, the XTSki should be a hair slower on the big end. The top molds are completely different, the XTSki is a molded open bow.
I hope that clears things up!
RTJas :D <--- Hopes to be a Lavey salesmen someday! LOL J/K :D
[ July 23, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: RiverToysJas ]

[01RENEGADE]

Benzeen........thanks for the invite I will be thier on the 8th-14 missed you by a week, but i have been to Essex and I really like that boat as well it will be a tough choice but maybe test rides in yours than jasons might make my mind up. I think Lavey and essex are top notch.

[rivercrazy]

Im a 6'0" and have been in the lavey 21 closed bow. I can fit but have to slump down pretty far in the seat. But you wont find a closed bow 21 with more room down below.

[Charlie Sanger]

nextasex:
Charlie Sanger, you have made a great decision with Lavey Craft. You will be extremely happy with that boat. The only thing I can recommend is getting all the horsepower that your budget allows you to, you will not go wrong! I have a 26' Lavey Craft and love it. It goes to Catalina Island, Mead, Havasu, and love it.
Good luck,
Frank

[Charlie Sanger]

nextasex:
Charlie Sanger, you have made a great decision with Lavey Craft. You will be extremely happy with that boat. The only thing I can recommend is getting all the horsepower that your budget allows you to, you will not go wrong! I have a 26' Lavey Craft and love it. It goes to Catalina Island, Mead, Havasu, and love it.
Good luck,
Frank Thanks Frank,
I looked at Essex, Shockwave and Lavey before making my decision. My main factor in going with the 6.2 vs the 8.1 was actually weight. The big block is about 200lbs. heavier and only a bit faster according to Jeff at Lavey. The small block should be able to hold a plane at lower speeds with less bow - rise which is important since my family does quite a bit of skiing/wakeboarding.
In any case I know that it's a great looking boat and that's built even better. Hopefully there will be a Pro-Charger in my future! Thanks for the advice.
Chuck

[RiverToysJas]

Charlie Sanger:
My main factor in going with the 6.2 vs the 8.1 was actually weight. The big block is about 200lbs. heavier and only a bit faster according to Jeff at Lavey. The small block should be able to hold a plane at lower speeds with less bow - rise which is important since my family does quite a bit of skiing/wakeboarding.
They told me the same thing. In fact every builder I talked to wanted to install a 6.2 over the 8.1. I started to think margins are better on the small block or something. LOL! I wanted torque though, I figure the boat can seat 9-10, I wanted a motor that could haul that many around w/o complaint. If you skiing is a bigg priority, they will still build the boat w/o the stepped bottom, it's better for skiing from what I understand.
My bow stays pretty flat on drive down starts and at low throttle. I'll loose the horizon very briefly under certain conditions, but not often.
You're going to love your boat!!!
RTJas :D

[Havasu Hangin']

rivercrazy:
Im a 6'0" and have been in the lavey 21 closed bow. I can fit but have to slump down pretty far in the seat. But you wont find a closed bow 21 with more room down below. Well...I'm 5'5" and the HH Tugboat has plenty of room...especially with it's "cab rearward" design...

[Charlie Sanger]

RiverToysJas:
Charlie Sanger:
My main factor in going with the 6.2 vs the 8.1 was actually weight. The big block is about 200lbs. heavier and only a bit faster according to Jeff at Lavey. The small block should be able to hold a plane at lower speeds with less bow - rise which is important since my family does quite a bit of skiing/wakeboarding.
They told me the same thing. In fact every builder I talked to wanted to install a 6.2 over the 8.1. I started to think margins are better on the small block or something. LOL! I wanted torque though, I figure the boat can seat 9-10, I wanted a motor that could haul that many around w/o complaint. If you skiing is a bigg priority, they will still build the boat w/o the stepped bottom, it's better for skiing from what I understand.
My bow stays pretty flat on drive down starts and at low throttle. I'll loose the horizon very briefly under certain conditions, but not often.
You're going to love your boat!!!
RTJas :D I'll trade of a little skiing performance for the efficiency of a step bottom any day.
As far as the margin thing goes as a general rule there is usually more profit built into higher priced boats, engines, cars, etc..
Thanks for the input.
Chuck

[mbrown2]

Charlie,
It sounds like you are set on the 6.2, but I thought I would throw my .02 to elaborate on what Jason is saying.... The 6.2 might be a tick slower than the 8.1 but those tests are normally under idea conditions, 1-2 folks, half tank of gas and no gear. In real world boating you will will 6-8 passengers, ice chests, full tanks, gear, etc...
We have a 23 Eliminator Eagle with 454mag/efi, and my brother in law has a new 22 Nordic Sprint with the 6.2. These boats lightly loaded pretty much handle and run around the same with the Eliminator being a little faster and quicker out of the hole...Now when we load each boat down with a bunch of folks, ice chest, and full tanks, you start to see a difference...The 6.2 will not plane the same or have the low end power to get up and around and loses its responsiveness from 25-50 with the weight...the big block does not have an issue with the added weight.
Its a tough choice, but I thought I would share to help with your decision.

[Charlie Sanger]

mbrown2:
Charlie,
It sounds like you are set on the 6.2, but I thought I would throw my .02 to elaborate on what Jason is saying.... The 6.2 might be a tick slower than the 8.1 but those tests are normally under idea conditions, 1-2 folks, half tank of gas and no gear. In real world boating you will will 6-8 passengers, ice chests, full tanks, gear, etc...
We have a 23 Eliminator Eagle with 454mag/efi, and my brother in law has a new 22 Nordic Sprint with the 6.2. These boats lightly loaded pretty much handle and run around the same with the Eliminator being a little faster and quicker out of the hole...Now when we load each boat down with a bunch of folks, ice chest, and full tanks, you start to see a difference...The 6.2 will not plane the same or have the low end power to get up and around and loses its responsiveness from 25-50 with the weight...the big block does not have an issue with the added weight.
Its a tough choice, but I thought I would share to help with your decision. Thanks for the input. My last boat was a 21 Ski Sanger w/350mag(250hp),Alpha. That boat never left the dock with less than six guys and tons of gear. While the acceleration was not on par with a big block it was good enough. Granted the Lavey is a bigger, heavier boat, it is also a more efficient bottom with more power.
By the way, I looked at your exact boat and it was a very tough choice.

[RiverToysJas]

Not too long ago in Needles we had 7 people on board, a full cooler, full fuel, bimini up, and were pulling two big adult males on two tubes! No problem! It was the only time I was glad to be spinning that 22" prop!!!
I'm not at all knocking the small block, it's a great motor from what I've been told. For me, coming out of jet boats, I still favor big blocks. wink
RTJas :D

[mbrown2]

BTW Charlie,
I think you are looking at the right boats....If I were going to buy a 21-22 V again, I would go out and test drive the 21 XTSki and the 22 Vortex at Perris in the afternoon on a crappy windy day and bring about 4-5 of my friends with me to see how they handle chop loaded. I would probably lean towards the Lavey since I think highly of Jeff's operation and like the openness of their 21's layout..Good luck

[BENZEEN]

RiverToysJas:
Not too long ago in Needles we had 7 people on board, a full cooler, full fuel, bimini up, and were pulling two big adult males on two tubes! No problem! It was the only time I was glad to be spinning that 22" prop!!!
RTJas :D Hey Jason,
My Vortex is set up like your Lavey, 496mag 22p 4 blade. With this prop, what is your cruising speed at 3500rpm, and what is the top speed and rpm at WOT, say with 2 people and 30 gallons of fuel?
Thanks,
Vik

[RiverToysJas]

BENZEEN:
Hey Jason,
My Vortex is set up like your Lavey, 496mag 22p 4 blade. With this prop, what is your cruising speed at 3500rpm, and what is the top speed and rpm at WOT, say with 2 people and 30 gallons of fuel?
Thanks,
Vik Hey Vik, I don't yet own a GPS and my gauge is not too accurate all the time, so I'm not sure about the 3500 RPM number. I think it's around the low 40s though.
With the 22" prop, 4 adult males (3 of which were 250+) and probably 30 gals I hit 63 (on a friend's GPS). The motor was pretty fresh then, less than 10 hours.
With the 23" Rev 4, two adult males (both 250+) and 40+ gallons we ran 67 consistantly. That was with about 25 hours on the motor, spinning 5,000.
I'm planning to buy a GPS soon and will know more then! I also have a K&N set up on the boat now, I'm not sure that matters, I think it did though.
RTJas :D

[BENZEEN]

[/qb][/QUOTE]
With the 23" Rev 4, two adult males (both 250+) and 40+ gallons we ran 67 consistantly. That was with about 25 hours on the motor, spinning 5,000.
RTJas :D [/QB][/QUOTE]
RTJ,
From what I understand, the 23 Rev 4 is 14 1/2" in diameter. Did you have a problem with it slipping, either out of the hole or in turns?

[RiverToysJas]

BENZEEN:
RTJ,
From what I understand, the 23 Rev 4 is 14 1/2" in diameter. Did you have a problem with it slipping, either out of the hole or in turns? Yes, a little of both. I blew it out in a very hard turn, but it was a pretty agressive turn. It seemed to slip a little from starts on throttle hits from low-mid range. Only slightly, then you could feel it hook up and away you went.
RTJas :D

[01RENEGADE]

Charlie... I saw your boat at lavey yesterday, we were on our way home from the river and we stoped to look at the 21 and 24 again. Your boat is looking great, nice colors. I still cant make up my mind on what size to get. We talked to andy and it is about a 9000.00 difference between the 21 and 24. We still want to look at essex again, oh well congrats on the new boat

[Charlie Sanger]

01RENEGADE:
Charlie... I saw your boat at lavey yesterday, we were on our way home from the river and we stoped to look at the 21 and 24 again. Your boat is looking great, nice colors. I still cant make up my mind on what size to get. We talked to andy and it is about a 9000.00 difference between the 21 and 24. We still want to look at essex again, oh well congrats on the new boat Renegade,
Thanks for the complement. I'm definitely biased toward Lavey though I know Essex also makes a great boat. As far as a 21 vs 24 goes, in my opinion it depends on how you will use the boat. The 24 will have a better ride but it probably won't be as good of a slalom boat as the 21 due to a larger wake, holeshot, etc.
In either case I'm sure that the folks at Lavey will treat you right...