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CA Stu
10-22-2003, 12:44 PM
Mama called, said pick up a gallon of milk on the way home, so I stopped in and grabbed a couple of 24 oz. Bud Lights and a gallon of milk.
I'm big and ugly, picketers didnt say anything to me.
Wonder why?
:cool:
Everyone else crossing the line?
I don't feel bad about it at all. Store is well stocked, people are nice as pie in there...
CA Stu

Mandelon
10-22-2003, 12:47 PM
I haven't had to. Went in to Henry's today, but it was on the way anyhow.

Mrs. Bordsmnj
10-22-2003, 12:49 PM
I am the spouse of a union electrician so we are honoring the picket-lines but believe me, I am sick of it and want to go back to shopping at my regular grocery store. :yuk:

ROZ
10-22-2003, 01:07 PM
We normally shop at Stater Bros. and Henry's....I hope this BS ends really soon....I'm getting tired of all the Albertsons and Vons shoppers comming to MY store raiding MY shelves;) :D
I did go to the local Albertson's when this thing first started to see what all the hubub was about... Gotta tell ya that the SCABS are much more friendly than the regular staff ever was... Good temporary pay, too....Been tellin all the kids in the neighborhood to get their asses in there and make some extra money!
R" still can't wait for automated self checkout" OZ

riverbound
10-22-2003, 01:11 PM
We have not stopped shopping at vons since the strike began and I have noticed that they replaced all the 40-50 year old checkers with hotter and younger 20ish checkers. make shopping more enjoyable.

hd&boatrider
10-22-2003, 01:31 PM
I won't cross the line. I used to be a union rep many years ago at the phone company. I am not saying that I agree just that I will respect the line. I still have family in the union at the phone company so that also comes into play. There are other stores to go to anyway. I think for the most part the unions have stopped being necessary with all the laws and so forth on the books. I also do not trust the upper union management.
We all owe a great deal to unions from the past. ALL OF US! It was necessary however now I am not so sure.

SCUBA STEVE
10-22-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Mrs. Bordsmnj
I am the spouse of a union electrician so we are honoring the picket-lines but believe me, I am sick of it and want to go back to shopping at my regular grocery store. :yuk:
I am honoring he picket line as well, but damn I want to go to my store again! I cant get used to food 4 less. I cant find anything I want and I have to bag my own shit! :) :D :wink:

rivercrazy
10-22-2003, 01:40 PM
I cross the lines everytime I go to the store. Besides our local Albersons, the next closest store is about 5 miles away and really inconvenient. I used to be in a union too

bigq
10-22-2003, 01:41 PM
I have for my 2 liter diet coke, best place is Albertons. Most our shopping is done at sams club, walmart, target now also and the 99 store. I sounds like the stores are not goin to budge at all, doesn't seem they can. To bad for the union.

hd&boatrider
10-22-2003, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Mrs. Bordsmnj
I am the spouse of a union electrician so we are honoring the picket-lines but believe me, I am sick of it and want to go back to shopping at my regular grocery store. :yuk:
Hey Linda---You and Jason tied the knot? If so, congrats' Are you going to start pumping out little ones....lol

watergirl
10-22-2003, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by SCUBA STEVE
I am honoring he picket line as well, but damn I want to go to my store again! I cant get used to food 4 less. I cant find anything I want and I have to bag my own shit! :) :D :wink:
I hate that place too. Doesn't that suck....bagging your own groceries. Geez! :rolleyes: :D

Infomaniac
10-22-2003, 01:45 PM
So by not crossing the line you agree with and are helping the situation that will eventually lead to higher food prices that you have to pay?
What working conditions at a food store could be bad enough for a union to strike over?

SCUBA STEVE
10-22-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by watergirl
I hate that place too. Doesn't that suck....bagging your own groceries. Geez! :rolleyes: :D
The good thing about food 4 less, the food is really less. And they have a shit load of beer!
But I still cant find the stuff I want. I guess I am picky. lol :D :)

CA Stu
10-22-2003, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by SCUBA STEVE
The good thing about food 4 less, the food is really less. And they have a shit load of beer!
But I still cant find the stuff I want. I guess I am picky. lol :D :)
They have hella deals on booze , too. I think I paid $30 or so for a bottle of Cabo Wabo Anejo that sells for $45+ at liquor stores...
CA Stu

H20Advantage
10-22-2003, 01:58 PM
No, won't cross the line. I spent 15 years in the grocery industry, eight of those in management. Left because of the stress and the corporate BS.
I have seen this coming for years. I won't get into a pissing match with anyone on this matter but I do support the striking employees.

mirvin
10-22-2003, 02:00 PM
We all need to understand that WE are the ones puting these stores out of business. WE go to Costco and buy bulk and the supermarkets can't compete with that so they have to cut costs. WE honer the picket lines and the whole cycle gets deeper and deeper.
What do we expect. Soon enough our only choices will be Costco and WallMart and we'll have to go to the farmers market for vegies!!

hd&boatrider
10-22-2003, 02:02 PM
I went on strike with the phone company in the early 80's...maybe 82 if I remember correctly. Anyhow, about a week before the strike I was playing basketball down at main beach in Laguna Beach. This MF'r undercut me when I went up for a rebound and I broke my arm. So, here I was going on disability with the strike just days away. I thought I beat the system. Being young and all we used to party like animals at the phone company. The strike happened and all my friends were out walking the picket line. It was hot and I went down to check on people walking the line. They were all drinking and basically having a party at the front gates. Well I decided to join in on the fun. I even held a sign up with my arm that was in a cast. I got a call the next day....either come in to work or stay out on strike...Needless to say I decided to stay and party with my friends on the line....lol The strike only lasted a week or so...no biggie

Ziggy
10-22-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by watergirl
I hate that place too. Doesn't that suck....bagging your own groceries. Geez! :rolleyes: :D
Boo-Hoo :cry: , go to Europe and you have to bring your own bags too..haha. When last visiting there I went shopping for an aunt, she hands me this hand canvas bag and her list. Kinda cool actually, you just bag as you shop, dump it on the register and rebag.......and 99.9% of the people don't drive to get there, they walk. Another huge difference you'd notice right away is there is no Big "Supermarkets", most are the local type of market or even open markets, like the "Farmers Markets". Way fresher stuff than we see here BTW.
.
My daughter and wife crossed yesterday, mainly to get a prescription at the Pharmacy but my daughter was kinda excited about crossing the line...why I don't know but probably because of all the talk.

hd&boatrider
10-22-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Infomaniac
So by not crossing the line you agree with and are helping the situation that will eventually lead to higher food prices that you have to pay?
What working conditions at a food store could be bad enough for a union to strike over?
I am not here to defend the strikers...they have to do that on their own. I own a small business (18 years now) and my employees would never have to orginize a union as I take care of them. Retirements, vacation, health benefits, sick days, etc.
Is your job next? I don't know....Walmart does a lot of good but also is changing the dynamics of America. This includes social morals, etc. I read an awfully good piece on the changing of America and how much Walmart is having to do with that. Read up on it and maybe, just maybe it could chnage some peoples minds about what is going on. Just one mans opinion. We are all on our own....that is what I think.

mickeyfinn
10-22-2003, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by mirvin
We all need to understand that WE are the ones puting these stores out of business. WE go to Costco and buy bulk and the supermarkets can't compete with that so they have to cut costs. WE honer the picket lines and the whole cycle gets deeper and deeper.
What do we expect. Soon enough our only choices will be Costco and WallMart and we'll have to go to the farmers market for vegies!!
And the problem with this is what????
Would love to see everyone cross the line and then when the strike is over would love to see everyone go elsewhere.

Danhercules
10-22-2003, 02:25 PM
Hell yea I crossed. 30 pack of silvers for $10.99!!!!!!:eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!: Are you kidding!!!!! I would never pass that up!!!

ROZ
10-22-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Ziggy
Boo-Hoo :cry: , go to Europe and you have to bring your own bag
Damn....Just when I thought I could leave the old lady at home.;) :D

Sangster
10-22-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by hd&boatrider
I am not here to defend the strikers...they have to do that on their own. I own a small business (18 years now) and my employees would never have to orginize a union as I take care of them. Retirements, vacation, health benefits, sick days, etc.
Is your job next? I don't know....Walmart does a lot of good but also is changing the dynamics of America. This includes social morals, etc. I read an awfully good piece on the changing of America and how much Walmart is having to do with that. Read up on it and maybe, just maybe it could chnage some peoples minds about what is going on. Just one mans opinion. We are all on our own....that is what I think.
The News is reporting this (the wal-mart deal) also .....

hd&boatrider
10-22-2003, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by ROZ
Damn....Just when I thought I could leave the old lady at home.;) :D
Roz---You are quick my man...lol

mirvin
10-22-2003, 02:40 PM
Mickeyfinn, I can't seem to figure out how the **** to quote you but, the problem is that once the grocery stores go out of business there's no more compitition. The "Wall Marts" have already put the independent stores out of business and now they're gunning for the grocery stores.
I'm not defending the Grocery workers. I think they're morons for striking. But once Wall Mart ( I use this term genericly, it's not just Wall Mart) has no competition, their prices will go up, and we'll have no choice! Their prices are cheaper because they pay their workers less. It's that simple.
Right now, unfortunately, most of us will drive twice as far and spend twice as long in line just to save a few bucks. This will eventually lead to us having no choices.

hd&boatrider
10-22-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Sangster
The News is reporting this (the wal-mart deal) also .....
I am ahead of the learning curve?....lol Actually it is very interesting when you look at the power of Walmart and how its' success and possible failure some day will affect each and every one of us. However, I don't see Walmart looking at bad times any time soon. Tell you what, if it does run into bad times it will have a staggering effect on the USA economy.

Casanova
10-22-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by hd&boatrider
I think for the most part the unions have stopped being necessary with all the laws and so forth on the books. I also do not trust the upper union management.
We all owe a great deal to unions from the past. ALL OF US! It was necessary however now I am not so sure.
Well said and worth some thought.

Ziggy
10-22-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by hd&boatrider
Roz---You are quick my man...lol
ROZ is way too fast---and he has a way of reading into things real smart-ly:D Didn't realize he has a canvas handbag at home he sleeps with :D :D

Casanova
10-22-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by hd&boatrider
I am ahead of the learning curve?....lol Actually it is very interesting when you look at the power of Walmart and how its' success and possible failure some day will affect each and every one of us. However, I don't see Walmart looking at bad times any time soon. Tell you what, if it does run into bad times it will have a staggering effect on the USA economy.
Boy,, does that statement say it all,,
Everyone I know that is an outside vendor to Wall Mart claims 55% of their total business is with Wallmart.
Warner Home Video, the local plant suppliers, a plumber, several others.
Remember when Sears Business took a mega nosedive? It put WhirlPool appliances, and several other big companies into chap 13.

Little Wood Boat
10-22-2003, 03:01 PM
Friends, Honor that picket line. Prices at those stores are already high, do you think prices will really lower if mgmt. can break the union"s back? Their shelves are stocked and look good not like the shit we all find at WalMart and CostCo. Does any one really find shopping those two stores appealing, or only put up with their disgusting environment for lower prices? I always see people standing 20 deep at 20 registers (sorry here) wanting for some really sorry assed ****er to scan my great big savings!!! Do you really need a Starbucks at your supermarket while you 're shopping? Yes, those coffee joints are manned by the market's employees. The few dollars mgmt. could save do you think they'll put more clerks at the checkout stands? Hell NO! You'll be baggin' them snacks your ****ing 'selves! There's my CO-PAY !! FLAME AWAY!!
PS someone get rid of that dancin' chick! ***boat FIX YOUR SITE!

75_Elim
10-22-2003, 03:13 PM
My father was a Union member for 25 years with The Screen Actors Guild and they would strike all the frikin time, and many times they found out it wasn't for the best intrest of the employees but for a better union position. I just wonder what the real story is behind this grocery problem??
Also, I have friends that sell to these large chain grocery stores and now they're hurting from the slow sales. Tell me, why should the economy, myself and milions of other be effected by their problems when they would give two shits if I had a problem here in my office. I say strike if you need to, but they should not try to limit the sales for the store cause that's hurting the vendors more then upper management.
just my $.02

mirvin
10-22-2003, 03:20 PM
75elm, your right on the money there. If they expect us to come back to the store once they're done with their nonsense, they better not keep us from getting what we need.
If I gotta go somewhere else, I ain't comin back, bitch.

hd&boatrider
10-22-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Casanova
Boy,, does that statement say it all,,
Everyone I know that is an outside vendor to Wall Mart claims 55% of their total business is with Wallmart.
Warner Home Video, the local plant suppliers, a plumber, several others.
Remember when Sears Business took a mega nosedive? It put WhirlPool appliances, and several other big companies into chap 13.
Walmart dictates how you do business with them...I am talking from beginning to the end. You know what, if you make too much money and have a better way to do things they will adopt your method and toss you out the door. Remember how Walmart used to always say "Buy American" by shopping at Walmart? The majority of the stuff they sell now comes from overseas because they produce it cheaper. In other words it would be easy to make a justified argument that Walmart is anti-american or the other way pro-american. It is the free market at its best. As with anything there are good points and bad points. One of the bad points is the power that they wield and seem to be gaining more strength each and every day. It is all about making the greenback people.
I try to put more into my business than how much money we made toay. I want people to be proud to say they work for my company. If you take care of your employees they will look after the business. If not, you have the wrong employee or maybe they are not being treated fairly. There are exceptions to every rule of course.
I expect the employees of Walmart to someday seek to organize a union. Don't know when that is but it is probably about time to swing the pendelum back a little bit. The pendelum always swings back/forth people. It will happen to Walmart at some point. There are too many employees and if they all got together they would be very powerful as a group. Time will tell.....
No more of these posts from me.....lol

lovemyultra
10-22-2003, 03:20 PM
just remember there is alot of corporate greed out there as well so dont be too judgemental of these people they are just trying to protect what they have ,not gain anything else

eliminatedsprinter
10-22-2003, 03:26 PM
I mostly shop at discount type stores. I do go to my local Abertsons however for a few items about once a week and I have not done so during the strike. It is not because I respect the unions (I do not) however I like the clerks there and I don't want to cause any hard feelings at my local store.

Infomaniac
10-22-2003, 04:49 PM
The wife just left for Walmart to buy groceries. Not sure about out there but they have the best prices and selection around. We have choices of all the big food chains within the same distance. Two Walmart Supercenters within 9 miles of each other. Even the Walmart grocery store only facilities close by.

MagicMtnDan
10-22-2003, 05:02 PM
Yeah, I'll honor the picket lines just as soon as those grocery workers come to my office and help me out when my company says, "sorry, the health care rates are skyrocketing and every employee has to pay more."
Why the eff should I worry about them having to pay more when EVERYONE else is paying more for healthcare coverage?!
It's a friggin' fact of life! Deal with it. Meanwhile I'll see you on the other side of the picket line...inside the store where it's nice and quiet and the new workers are a lot more friendly and helpful.

Boatcop
10-22-2003, 05:24 PM
The Grocery contracts with Safeway and Fry's run out on Saturday out here. There's talk of strikes here, too.
With Safeway being the only decent market within 50 miles, what else can you do?
From what I understand, the strikes are about health care costs and Sunday pay. This is where I don't agree with a lot of union demands.
The stores want to do away with health benefits for part time workers. (new hires, not the ones already there), and also have employees pay a portion of their Health Insurance premiums.
Don't most of us do that already? I know my wife does, and she's a federal employee. I don't pay for myself, but I pay 100% of dependant insurance.
They also want to do away for bonus pay for working Sundays. Excuse me. I've worked nearly every Sunday for the last 15 years. I don't get anything extra for it.
Unions played their part over the last 100 years in getting rid of sweatshop conditions, and poor pay and benefits. There's now laws that protect most workers. Now I think they're just greedy.
Remember that Unions broke the bank in California. Gay Davis cow-towed to them and gave them contracts that most of us would kill for. And YOU are paying for it, through higher taxes and vehicle fees.
With unreasonable union demands who do you think is going to pay for the increases in benefits? You and me, that's who.
At least Arizona is a "right to work" state, and they can all go out on strike for all I care. There are more than enough people out there looking for a job to come in and do the work.

mickeyfinn
10-22-2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by mirvin
Mickeyfinn, I can't seem to figure out how the **** to quote you but, the problem is that once the grocery stores go out of business there's no more compitition. The "Wall Marts" have already put the independent stores out of business and now they're gunning for the grocery stores.
I'm not defending the Grocery workers. I think they're morons for striking. But once Wall Mart ( I use this term genericly, it's not just Wall Mart) has no competition, their prices will go up, and we'll have no choice! Their prices are cheaper because they pay their workers less. It's that simple.
Right now, unfortunately, most of us will drive twice as far and spend twice as long in line just to save a few bucks. This will eventually lead to us having no choices.
It is still a free market economy. As long as it stays that way the competition will always be there. Wal-mart and k-mart, Target, etc. If the competition starts to wane and someone gets greedy then another competitor will appear to take advantage of the high margins to be had from an industry with little competition. This will result in the stores having to be competitive with each other and prices dropping once again. That is one of the things that makes this country great, the free market economy. As long as we keep the government from interfering in the market there will always be someone looking to find a market with high margins to get into. Capitalism......GOTTA LOVE IT!!

Seadog
10-22-2003, 06:49 PM
Walmart is where they are at because they are more efficient. Yes they do not pay top dollar and some stores are worse than others. But Walmart is also in on serveral changes in the way things are done. By being big enough to dictate to the suppliers, they are looking at using imbedded chips to track products. By being able to track where everything is at any time, they maintain tight inventory control and can catch employee ripoff and shoplifting. They also established a program where vendors tell them what to buy and they allow the vendors access to competitors sales numbers. Believe it or not, it works out for all. Say a cigar manufacturer is showing a upsurge of fruit flavored cigars. Even tho the Walmart main vendor does not sell that type, they may recommend that WM starts stocking them. It is all voluntary, but both the main vendor and the secondary vendors benefit. It has to be done right and monitored carefully, but only WM could make it work.

MagicMtnDan
10-22-2003, 07:13 PM
Walmart is winning the war because they're big and smart. One issue often overlooked is that Walmart employees are, for the most part, part-timers. And why does Walmart keep them as part-timers rather than full-time employees? Let me answer a question with another question: Guess what kind of medical benefits the part-timers get? That's right. Just about none.
How are the grocery stores supposed to compete against a huge Walmart chain that has part-time employees while paying their employees complete health care benefits? Answer: they can't.
The unions want the grocery stores to do what they have to do to pay 100% of the employees' health care costs. What that means is that the grocery stores need to RAISE their prices. And that will guarantee that the stores go under.
But the unions don't care about that (at least not the union management - hell, they're getting paid during the strike). So if the unions got their way and the employees got 100% healthcare coverage and the stores went under who wins then?!
That's why the grocery store chains are playing hardball and, because what happens in California with this strike, sets the bar in other states, it's even more important to the grocery chains for them to win.
It's going to be a long, ugly strike if the unions don't back down and compromise by taking whatever they can while they can. This is one union that could be going under instead of the grocery chains. Meanwhile, more and more folks will be crossing the picket lines as this thing drags on.
I hope the unions wake up and smell the coffee before Walmart is the only place selling it.

boatnam2
10-22-2003, 07:18 PM
man i cant wait until wal mart and aothers like it take over and everyone in the industry is making 9 bucks an hour with out benifits.just because there union so many people have bad attitude and say **** them.the rich ****s are laughing all the way to the bank frigging sheep!i know i know if there not happy go get a better job well if everyone goes to get a better job it might just be yours because everyone cant have the best job.15 bucks an hour isnt much money when you consider a burger and fries is 6 bucks.i just dont see why everyone is so quick to jump on they make more then enough money doing what they do.maybe we could just open the border so big companies can train the mexicans to do your job for 5 bucks an hour.i know everyone is to trained and smart to have that happen to them.yea right.i cant wait until this trend hits the hospitals then we will see what you say when you got some 6 buck an hour scab wanting to stick a finger up your ass because it will feel just like it does as you cross the picket line in front of americans wanting a decent wage and benifit package.

Casanova
10-22-2003, 07:19 PM
I'm like RD,, it doesnt really effect me. I go to Trader Joes and COSTCO.
My bitch is the Retail Clerks Union left the table,, and isn't currently in talks.
They really aren't that far apart, and just like the airlines and other industries,, they may need to help their employer a bit with a break in costs.
Come on,, it's un skilled labor.
And like BoatCop said,,, and let me clairify that,,, they get premium pay if SUNDAY is a regular work day on their shift.
We're not talking overtime pay because Sunday fell on their day off, everyone in Calif already gets that. The issue is, it's premium pay if Sunday is part of their regular workweek.
Who the hell gets that??
They are going to ruin what business their companies have with their cavalier attitude.
This is no way to improved and hang on to a good future.
Nah,, I think the union in this case is the bad guy.

C-2
10-22-2003, 07:37 PM
Wal Mart employees have tried to unionize in other states and have been met by thug tactics from them, in fact Wal Mart has been sanctioned numerous times. But you gotta ask yourself….is the UFCW more interested in “protecting” employees, or do they see literally tens of thousands of potential union members to add to their coffers? Not to mention the strength they would have again.
Personally I think everybody is looking into this Wal Mart crap too much. Sure, in theory it is feasible, you know, Wal Mart snuffing out the competition. But this is California and if you’re like me I’M NOT GONNA BUY MY GROCERIES AT WAL MART, PERIOD. If I wanted cheap groceries, I would put up with the stench and go to Food 4 Less.
I like going into Albertson’s or Ralph’s (Stater Brothers sucks, period) and finding twenty different brands or types of BBQ sauce, not two or three. And I like the coffee bar in there too. I don’t drink it but it keeps my wife happy and saves me a trip to fruitcake land (Starbucks).
I support the striking workers but believe they are being raked over the coals by the union.
And talk about support. My wife is an old-school baker and bakery manager. She is in the Baker’s union. Their position is that they “ask” their members to support the strike. They won’t issue a directive instructing their members to honor the picket line, they will only offer “suggestions”. Now since my wife is management, the supermarket management expected her to work the strike since the supermarket has not locked out baker union employees.
So my wife works about 3-4 days until it becomes unbearable with her *friends* who are now on the line. She decides to walk off. The difference is, she walks off WITH NO ****ING STRIKE PAY, IT’S NOT HER GODAMN UNION THAT’S STRIKING. :mad: :mad: :mad: After 30 days, we’ll lose our medical benefits and have to revert to Cobra and then wait another 90 days until after the benefits have been reinstated to use them (except for emergency visits).
Now if the bakers union went on strike, do you think these mother ****ers that are striking now would walk away from their jobs in support of my wife’s broken-ass union. Hell no they wouldn’t.
It all boils down to money, and who’s pocket it will end up in. The striking workers need to wake the **** up and ask their union a.) What are they truly striking for, and b.) Why did the union not even make an attempt to negotiate a better deal? Like I asked before, Why aren’t the teamsters backing the strike? Isn’t that the theory behind having a union “brotherhood”…to help each other out in times of labor disputes? What about other unions? What a ****ing joke.
Alright, I’m done now and BTW..Vons has 18 packs of silvers or bud for 4.99.

Havasu Hangin'
10-22-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Seadog
By being big enough to dictate to the suppliers, they are looking at using imbedded chips to track products. By being able to track where everything is at any time, they maintain tight inventory control and can catch employee ripoff and shoplifting. They also established a program where vendors tell them what to buy and they allow the vendors access to competitors sales numbers. Believe it or not, it works out for all.
Uhhhhh...that's funny.
Right now, many vendors are looking at embedding chips into thier cases. The reason is called diverting.
Diverting is the practice of buying product to retail (and getting an allowance for the appropriate "performance" or negotiated retail), but selling it to other retailers. Most vendors work on a live accrual, so the more cases a retailer sells, then the more $ gets put in thier pocket.
An ebedded chip would allow the vendors to track where the case ends up- out the back door, or in the consumer's hands. Diverting is the dirty secret of the industry.
As for the vendors telling them what to buy, it's called category manangement, and we do it for every customer. We buy Neilsen Scantrack information, and overlay internal movement numbers to tell them what the best mix is for the profitability of the category.
Safeway is big on thier SCOP (Safeway Category Optimization Program) where they charge the "category leader" hundreds of thousands of dollars to conduct this study. Then, they ask the vendors to set the sections.
Every big presentation these days contains CM info, or "fact-based selling."
Basically...we tell them what to carry, and where to put it on the shelf, because they are too dumb to know on thier own.

Infomaniac
10-22-2003, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by C-2
But this is California and if you’re like me I’M NOT GONNA BUY MY GROCERIES AT WAL MART, PERIOD.
That is some of the funniest shit I have ever read.
Where you buy your food is a status symbol?
Sounds like they are set up different out west. Here the grocery department at Walmart is exactly the same size and variety as any major food chain. Albertson's etc.
LOL

boatnam2
10-22-2003, 08:00 PM
c-2 i totally agree with you the workers need to do what is the best for them.not what is the best for the union.that is one of the problems i see is workers that are union just set back and let the union make all the decisions.only getting together every 3 or 4 years when something like this comes up.i work in a union refinery and im in no way disillusioned that the union is not a business.they lobby in washington dc just like every other organization for what is the best for them.c2 if the little woman did go out on strike you could bet you ass i wouldn't be eating bread.

C-2
10-22-2003, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Infomaniac
That is some of the funniest shit I have ever read.
Where you buy your food is a status symbol?
Sounds like they are set up different out west. Here the grocery department at Walmart is exactly the same size and variety as any major food chain. Albertson's etc.
LOL
Not a status symbol, personal preference only.
Kinda like going to the swap meet in OC as opposed to one in the 909..same crap, different atmosphere.
Oops, I live in the 909 :eek: :eek:
I can't compare a super Wal Mart to an Albertson's since none of the Wal Marts have been opned yet. But I seriously, seriously doubt the gorocery department will even compare to a modern Albertson's. That would have to be one pimped out Wal Mart.

Infomaniac
10-22-2003, 08:10 PM
Your probably right. The Albertson's here suck. I never go there because i have to stand in line forever.
The only real difference I see is some of the exotic fresh produce. All of the canned boxed bagged foods are the same varity. Meats are really good also. Deli bakery etc.

NorCal Gameshow
10-22-2003, 10:20 PM
do a search on walmart overtime lawsuit. not only do they have a low pay scale some managers don't feel the need to pay for overtime worked. yeah the employees knew the pay scale when they were hired . i understand that. but i wonder how many thought they would have to work for free? :rolleyes:

boatnam2
10-22-2003, 11:10 PM
they also give you medical paper work when you go to work there,hmmmm i wonder who pays for that.

boatnam2
10-22-2003, 11:13 PM
medi-cal

phuggit
10-23-2003, 01:23 AM
They've started blowing whistles and those loud CO2 horns at people when they walk past their lines. They did it as an elderly woman walked past and scared the hell out of her.

Seadog
10-23-2003, 05:31 AM
HH, thanks for being more detailed about the subject. Retail is not my bag, but I do try to keep up with what I can. Unfortunately, much of my info comes from the news media, and you know how well they get the details.
Around OK, WM does a decent job with their stores and the grocery section compares with most of the better ones. I rarely go to Albertson's because the prices are to high for the same thing. They are slightly better for specialty breads and veggies, but everything else is a bust. Most times, the meats are better at WM.
In Tulsa and OKC, the newer upscale groceries are real nice, but it is hard to justify paying for that much pizzaz when you go after a frozen pizza. I go to my WM for the bulk of my needs, but since I am very brand conscience about many items, I make rare trips to the other stores for items that WM does not carry and stock up when I go.
While I do a lot of shopping at WM, I would love to see a good Target or K-Mart move in. Competition is what keeps businesses on its toes. When we had a TG&Y/AIM store, it was great because the stores catered to everyones needs. Now our WM pushes items for the college kids and we often have to catch various items at stores in OKC, Tulsa or BVille.

OGShocker
10-23-2003, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by phuggit
They've started blowing whistles and those loud CO2 horns at people when they walk past their lines. They did it as an elderly woman walked past and scared the hell out of her.
A$$holes! My wife went to VONS lastnight and the strikers messed with her. They popped off with the standard lines, "don't you care about our families"? "why are you trying to hurt us"? and a "Hey LADY!, what's up with YOU"!? from some wanabe tough guy. She kept her cool, went inside and dumped a $100.00 on stuff we didn't really need just so she could walk past the whinny little bit*hes and the cowards that try to intimidate women shoppers.
Two hours later I went back to VONS with her ( she actually forgot something):rolleyes: and NO ONE said a word. I can only think it was because I was there and they did not want to mess with this fat, bald guy;)

al cole'holic
10-23-2003, 09:39 AM
**** it, cross the ****ing lines....stupid asses choose to make a career in a grocery store. You don't like having to pay for your insurance like the rest of us, find another career that requires no brains.....
...btw, I was once a union employee for Vons :p

eliminatedsprinter
10-23-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Boatcop
The Grocery contracts with Safeway and Fry's run out on Saturday out here. There's talk of strikes here, too.
With Safeway being the only decent market within 50 miles, what else can you do?
From what I understand, the strikes are about health care costs and Sunday pay. This is where I don't agree with a lot of union demands.
The stores want to do away with health benefits for part time workers. (new hires, not the ones already there), and also have employees pay a portion of their Health Insurance premiums.
Don't most of us do that already? I know my wife does, and she's a federal employee. I don't pay for myself, but I pay 100% of dependant insurance.
They also want to do away for bonus pay for working Sundays. Excuse me. I've worked nearly every Sunday for the last 15 years. I don't get anything extra for it.
Unions played their part over the last 100 years in getting rid of sweatshop conditions, and poor pay and benefits. There's now laws that protect most workers. Now I think they're just greedy.
Remember that Unions broke the bank in California. Gay Davis cow-towed to them and gave them contracts that most of us would kill for. And YOU are paying for it, through higher taxes and vehicle fees.
With unreasonable union demands who do you think is going to pay for the increases in benefits? You and me, that's who.
At least Arizona is a "right to work" state, and they can all go out on strike for all I care. There are more than enough people out there looking for a job to come in and do the work.
I have to agree.
I work for the F. Gov and I pay over $225 per month for my family's health ins and all I ever hear about is those "fabulous federal Benifits". P.S. My dept has not had any money to pay any overtime in many years. Even though most of us work plenty of it.

NorCal Gameshow
10-23-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by eliminatedsprinter
P.S. My dept has not had any money to pay any overtime in many years. Even though most of us work plenty of it.
are you hourly or exempt? if your hourly and not getting paid it's illegal...believe it or not it's tax evasion... you're not getting paid so there is no taxes being paid. i guess that's one way to get out of paying taxes, work for free :D

Caribbean Jet
10-23-2003, 10:28 AM
There strike wages end after 2 months. Lets see if they can hold out that long. I heard that the grocery stores will not be changing the contract as far as the medical goes. My wife works in the grocery industry but not one that is striking. They just cut her benifits and they just kept working. She doen't work in the stores and is non union. She knows how rough it is and she crosses the picket lines when she has to. I say fight for what you want just don't make it effect my life on a daily basis. I try not to effect theres when crap happens at my office.

OGShocker
10-23-2003, 10:30 AM
Goodbye Strikers and HELLO to the future! (http://www.californianonline.com/news/stories/20030201/localnews/897144.html)

eliminatedsprinter
10-23-2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by NorCal Gameshow
are you hourly or exempt? if your hourly and not getting paid it's illegal...believe it or not it's tax evasion... you're not getting paid so there is no taxes being paid. i guess that's one way to get out of paying taxes, work for free :D
I'm just on a salary. I theory the Federal Gov must follow the rules. In reality....

mirvin
10-23-2003, 10:38 AM
Did you guys see the story this morning about the INS arresting over 300 illegal workers at Wall Marts accross the county?

NorCal Gameshow
10-23-2003, 10:47 AM
i think the benefit issue is the least of it....like a lot of you i pay extra for the coverage about $200.00 or so...
the part timers at the market now are guaranteed 20 hours per week.
if i'm the employer, i'm going to hire more people at every store
so i make sure these workers that get benefits only work 20 hours, eventually they will quit and i'll have saved $$$$
so in a way these people are striking for there jobs.
if the stores end up winning this thing i doubt you will see noticable drop in prices at the store level..
the abuse some strikers have given some people who choose to cross is harassment and they (the picketers,who do that) should be kicked off the line.....
just my 12 cents.....
i better go hide my soap box :D

CA Stu
10-23-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by phuggit
They've started blowing whistles and those loud CO2 horns at people when they walk past their lines. They did it as an elderly woman walked past and scared the hell out of her.
Where the hell did this happen? I live in Woodcrest, I see you're Orangecrest, was it in our area?
I think I'd get pretty hot if someone did that to one of my female relatives. :mad:
CA Stu

Keithb87
10-23-2003, 12:55 PM
I can only think it was because I was there and they did not want to mess with this fat, bald guy
I have that problem too. People are real BOLD with the Old Lady. But when they see the
:eek: FAT GUY with the Goatee, their story allways changes:eek!:
What's up with that? :mad:

riverbound
10-23-2003, 01:07 PM
I had the same problem last night my wife (who is 9 months pregnant) went to the store and I stayed in the car with my son. When all of a sudden this punk a$$ started yelling at my wife so I jump out of our car and ran up to the guy asking him if he had a problem and you should have seen how much of a puss he turned into with me standing there. Lucky for him his fellow strikers rescued himand took him away.:mad: :mad: :mad:

hd&boatrider
10-23-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by riverbound
I had the same problem last night my wife (who is 9 months pregnant) went to the store and I stayed in the car with my son. When all of a sudden this punk a$$ started yelling at my wife so I jump out of our car and ran up to the guy asking him if he had a problem and you should have seen how much of a puss he turned into with me standing there. Lucky for him his fellow strikers rescued himand took him away.:mad: :mad: :mad:
RB---What store was that? Was it up off of GR at the Ralphs there?

riverbound
10-23-2003, 01:28 PM
Hd- vons off mckinley I live on the border corona/ norco

superdave013
10-23-2003, 01:29 PM
I crossed them the first day and I do it every time I need something.
The last time when they said don't do it or what every they were yelling I gave them a typical SD013 comment. I told them "I'm not buying anything, I'm here to fill out a job app." :D
Then I told them that I heard they are payin scabs 15 bucks an hour and that's much better then I'm getting now. Oh, I also thanked them for the job opportunity.

hd&boatrider
10-23-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
I crossed them the first day and I do it every time I need something.
The last time when they said don't do it or what every they were yelling I gave them a typical SD013 comment. I told them "I'm not buying anything, I'm here to fill out a job app." :D
Then I told them that I heard they are payin scabs 15 bucks an hour and that's much better then I'm getting now. Oh, I also thanked them for the job opportunity.
No that is some cold shit...but you gotta laugh at it...lol

superdave013
10-23-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by hd&boatrider
No that is some cold shit...but you gotta laugh at it...lol
lol, what's so cold about it. People come here every day and fill out job apps trying to get my job. Those dumb asses are giving their jobs away.

hd&boatrider
10-23-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by superdave013
lol, what's so cold about it. People come here every day and fill out job apps trying to get my job. Those dumb asses are giving their jobs away.
Maybe I am just too sensitive....lol You do have a point there SD

MAXIMUS
10-23-2003, 04:04 PM
Strike??? what strike??? I still shop at Ralphs when I need my goods! If one of those sorry ass picketers steps infront of my truck then god bless them! I don't have patience for unions or strikes!!! PERIOD!!! Any questions!!! :)

MAXIMUS
10-23-2003, 04:05 PM
Also how do I get rid of this machine gun looser on my avatar???:confused:

phuggit
10-26-2003, 04:48 PM
CA STU
Yeah it was the Albertsons at Trautwein and V.B. Seems they will only do it to people they think they can intimidate, i.e. women and elderly.
Punk asses

Buff
10-27-2003, 06:20 AM
Unions tend towards corruption; they are like chemotherapy - the cure often is as cruel as the cancer. Without these Unions however the cancer (i.e. - the greed of unchecked management) is certain doom. Most people for whatever reasons lack whatever it takes to be dynamic self-reliant economic engines. They carve out decent livings by working for others. Yhey employ good old American ingenuity by forming unions. That allows them to secure the kind of wages that permit them to by tract houses and a new car now and again. Certainly we do not want to see this country continue on this road to third-worldism until our cities look like New Delhi or Bombay with their small upper crust living in walled sectors surrounded by the masses living in squalor. Ads for me - I am in favor of chemo over cancer. Then again, bear in mind that you are dealing here with someone who picked the Buffalo Bills to win the Super Bowl for four straight years.
sorry for the rambling - Buff.

JetBoatRich
10-27-2003, 06:27 AM
What is it the third week, my wife and I have yet to cross the lines and encourage the picketers. Our bank is in Von's, so we have to go through them to get to the bank.
I have a big grocery list and am tired of the other stores? What should we do?

HammerDown
10-27-2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by JetBoatRich
What is it the third week, my wife and I have yet to cross the lines and encourage the picketers.
I have a big grocery list and am tired of the other stores? What should we do?
From a Teamster (me)...honor the picket line!
PS. trust me, one would'nt want to do what I do (Teamster Auto Hauler= Big Riggs with Vehicles on them)) ...without being in a strong Union.

superdave013
10-27-2003, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by JetBoatRich
I have a big grocery list and am tired of the other stores? What should we do?
Stop being a pussy and go ****ing shopping!

JetBoatRich
10-27-2003, 07:01 AM
Originally posted by HammerDown
From a Teamster (me)...honor the picket line!
PS. trust me, one would'nt want to do what I do (Teamster Auto Hauler= Big Riggs with Vehicles on them)) ...without being in a strong Union.
I think a lot of people don't understand the problem, Medical insurance cost my family a couple hundred dollars a month. Why should they get such a break?

OGShocker
10-27-2003, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by JetBoatRich
What is it the third week, my wife and I have yet to cross the lines and encourage the picketers. Our bank is in Von's, so we have to go through them to get to the bank.
I have a big grocery list and am tired of the other stores? What should we do?
We never stopped shopping at VONS, Albertsons or Ralphs. I still find it funny, my wife walks 30 feet in front of me and get S%^T from those walking the line. When I go in behind her I hear nothing from them.
I won't tell you to cross. All I know is NO ONE will stop us from going where we want to go.

superdave013
10-27-2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by JetBoatRich
I think a lot of people don't understand the problem, Medical insurance cost my family a couple hundred dollars a month. Why should they get such a break?
That's exactly way I think you should support the store and not the strike.
Where are you gonna shop if the store folds? I hate the thought of doing that kind of shopping at a ****ing Wallmart Superstore.

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 07:55 AM
As a former member of the Carpenters and Steelworkers union, I say cross the lines.
The union did little for me other than pick my pocket and hassle me every time I tried to get cleared through the local to go to work on a job. I have a feeling that I am going to have a fight over my pension account too...the one the employer was paying almost $3.50 an hour into....

Dave C
10-27-2003, 08:24 AM
OG, I like those self-service checkouts at Home Depot. Fastest lane in the damn store.;)

OGShocker
10-27-2003, 08:32 AM
Q. Why is it you see the "Live Better/Work Union" sticker on the bumpers of POS cars and trucks but, the guys who "RUN" the Unions drive expensive cars like Cadillacs and Lincons?
A. Because those "Fat Cats" are defrauding the working people of this GREAT NATION!
Ever wonder why they called it the Soviet UNION?
My .02
OGS

HammerDown
10-27-2003, 08:44 AM
I don't know the histor of this Food Store chain...but large Co.'s like mine Allied Systems auto Haulers is a Co. that continually :cry: poor mouth...when in reality they have 2 loaves of bread under each arm and always want to take our crumbs away from us. F that...if not for a strong Union the Co. would have us working for pennies on the Dollar and further run us in the ground!
Some of us earn over $100,000 a year...bust our ass, break our bodys left and right for them and ourselves to get that. And all's they want to do is take things away and threaten us. Trust this, with us makeing that kind of coin...there making it twice over, and good for them. Our Union all ready proved that with there over inflated upper management bonuses....and last contract they wanted to freeze our health and pay increases for 5 years...yea OK:mad: while they stuff another loaf of bread under there arms and:cry: poor mouth.
Like I stated above...I don't know the full story with this Food Store...or the Union(there are some bad ones) that supports the workers....but thank God for ours.
Most people that put Unions down never needed one to fight for them and there jobs. And I've never worked for a (good) Company that in my eyes did'nt need (good) Union support for there workers.
Just something to think about when one crosses that picket line, do you really know why the workers are out there? If it was a good worker related reason would you care? Stop and talk to them before you decide to cross. Find out what there out there for. There's always 2 sides to a coin.
I would never support harassment of the general public from picketers...BUT LET SOME SCAB CO. COME IN MY YARD AFTER MY WORK! And take away what we fought for...it's Fist City Time.
Just a thought...do you think WalMart was right in hiring all those immigrants to save money(theres) and keeping your prices down (some) VS paying a little more at the register and employing US citizens? I wonder if a Union would allow that.

Dave C
10-27-2003, 08:46 AM
We don't even have WalMarts out here. Besides a lot of people out here would not go into a Walmart to buy anything. (bunch of snobs)
In re Walmart and other big chains, they do kinda suck. If I had my choice I would go somewhere else. Besides if they get sloppy, they will end up like K-Mart in Chapter 11, because low prices are everything.
Its all about "choice." In America we are free to choose where or where not we go to shop. Our choices must not be influenced by anyone except ourselves.
Up here in the People's Republic of Berkeley, they constantly work to stop big retailers from building there. That infringes upon the rights of others. If you don’t like a retailer then don’t shop there but don’t stop the rest of us from our right to choose where we want to go.

You Te
10-27-2003, 08:56 AM
I say **** the union, I cross the lines just for fun.
Almost $18.00 an hour to scan groceries + payroll taxes + benefits **** that shit.
If you don't like your job then figure out another way to make a living and stop being a striking crybaby.
Oh no, the price of gas went up, thats less money in our pocket lets strike.
I hope the groceries works win and put the markets out of business, then someone can take over and open a non union shop for those people that want to work in a market.
You Te

Rusty Knutts
10-27-2003, 09:08 AM
It's the Unions that make your propertiy/homes worth what they are....Just watch now that ARNOLD THE UNION BUSTER is in office in Sacramento keep an eye on property values plunge.Show me a Non-Union working stiff that can afford to buy your house "YOU Te"!! Hope when the time comes to sell your place, the guy with six kids and a Walmart job will be able to qualify for a $700,000.00 loan...Unions made California what it was, Union busting Politicians are taking it away.:( :( :( :(

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by HammerDown
I
Just a thought...do you think WalMart was right in hiring all those immigrants to save money(theres) and keeping your prices down (some) VS paying a little more at the register and employing US citizens? I wonder if a Union would allow that.
HD,
I agree that there are places where the unionhave historically been a good thing. I think a lot of current labor law owes a lot to union activity over the past century.
Your industry may be one where the unions are still relevant, I don't know much about it any more since I have not been in a union for over 17 years.
I do shop at Wal Mart, although we don't have the grocery store (superstore) here. I think I know my wife well enough that she would shop where she was comfortable, meaning Albertsons.
I just wanted to point out that the illegal aliens were working for a contractor to the big W mart or as Hank Hill would say the Mega-Low-Mart... The investigation of Wal Mart is as to if they knew the Contractor was using illegals. I am not sure they would be legally compelled to do anything about it if they did, morally...sure, for PR reasons...that is obvious, but legally?? I dunno.
And I wonder if a union would say anything about the immigration status of anyone. After all the union is a business too and as long as they get thier money...well I just wonder.
But I do respect your view, the Union has been good for you, it wasn't so good for me.

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Rusty Knutts
It's the Unions that make your propertiy/homes worth what they are....:(
SO we have the unions to blame for the fact that no one can afford a friggin home in California anymore????
I think you give them FAR too much credit, but that is just my .02

OGShocker
10-27-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by HammerDown
I don't know the histor of this Food Store chain...but large Co.'s like mine Allied Systems auto Haulers is a Co. that continually :cry: poor mouth...when in reality they have 2 loaves of bread under each arm and always want to take our crumbs away from us. F that...if not for a strong Union the Co. would have us working for pennies on the Dollar and further run us in the ground!
Some of us earn over $100,000 a year...bust our ass, break our bodys left and right for them and ourselves to get that. And all's they want to do is take things away and threaten us. Trust this, with us makeing that kind of coin...there making it twice over, and good for them. Our Union all ready proved that with there over inflated upper management bonuses....and last contract they wanted to freeze our health and pay increases for 5 years...yea OK:mad: while they stuff another loaf of bread under there arms and:cry: poor mouth.
Like I stated above...I don't know the full story with this Food Store...or the Union(there are some bad ones) that supports the workers....but thank God for ours.
Most people that put Unions down never needed one to fight for them and there jobs. And I've never worked for a (good) Company that in my eyes did'nt need (good) Union support for there workers.
Just something to think about when one crosses that picket line, do you really know why the workers are out there? If it was a good worker related reason would you care? Stop and talk to them before you decide to cross. Find out what there out there for. There's always 2 sides to a coin.
I would never support harassment of the general public from picketers...BUT LET SOME SCAB CO. COME IN MY YARD AFTER MY WORK! And take away what we fought for...it's Fist City Time.
Just a thought...do you think WalMart was right in hiring all those immigrants to save money(theres) and keeping your prices down (some) VS paying a little more at the register and employing US citizens? I wonder if a Union would allow that.
You have proven a couple things to me in your post.
1. The worker is often BS'ed by both the Company and the Union. The worker falls into a "US against THEM mentality. This benefits no one. Since you are from Pennsylvania you know the woes caused in the 70's and 80's by workers not seeing the fact's and following lemming like, the unions leadership. The steel companies warned the workers, they were not able to compete with the companies from Germany and Japan. They asked for concessions and received NONE. Where is our once great steel industry now?
2. When the chips are down the union mentality is to take a drive to "FIST CITY". Violence seems to be the answer when the unions see the companies try to release themselves from the strangle hold put on by striking unions.
If you care... look what the MARXIST.ORG (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/u/n.htm#union) website defines as "UNION"
Have a nice day from a 65 hour a week business owner.

MagicMtnDan
10-27-2003, 10:28 AM
I said it before and I'll say it again - when the unions come to my company to support me/us when our employer tells us healthcare costs are skyrocketing and we have to pay even more out of our pockets - that's when I'll support them in their effen strike.
Until then I'm dancing my way across the picket lines! Shop on!

CA Stu
10-27-2003, 11:11 AM
30 PACKS OF BEER $9.99
At Ralph's.
All the beer drinkers I know (myself included) will be crossing that picket line. I think they should also put Midol on super sale.
Let's see the picketers try and stop women on the PMS warpath and thirsty beer drinkers!
My wife and I honored the picket lines for a full week, but when the negotiations broke down, the union won't pass proposals to it's members, screw that.
When they're all broke and out of a job, the workers can thank their Union bosses.
CA Stu

You Te
10-27-2003, 11:39 AM
Gee Rusty,
I'll sell my house for half price to a Wallmart worker, if all the unions go bye bye. If all the unions are gone the price of goods will go down.
If it costs half as much to live then houses should cost half as much, it's all relative.
Do you ever wonder why U. S. companies open shop in other countries and take jobs away from the U. S.?
You Te

superdave013
10-27-2003, 11:43 AM
I'm non union and I work in a small fab shop. I live pretty close to You Te. I seem to be able to make my house payments.
The people that live next door to me all work at Vons. I wonder how they'll make their payments next month after sitting on their ass this month??????

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by OGShocker
You have proven a couple things to me in your post.
1. The worker is often BS'ed by both the Company and the Union. The worker falls into a "US against THEM mentality. This benefits no one. Since you are from Pennsylvania you know the woes caused in the 70's and 80's by workers not seeing the fact's and following lemming like, the unions leadership. The steel companies warned the workers, they were not able to compete with the companies from Germany and Japan. They asked for concessions and received NONE. Where is our once great steel industry now?
2. When the chips are down the union mentality is to take a drive to "FIST CITY". Violence seems to be the answer when the unions see the companies try to release themselves from the strangle hold put on by striking unions.
If you care... look what the MARXIST.ORG (http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/u/n.htm#union) website defines as "UNION"
Have a nice day from a 65 hour a week business owner.
There really are commies still around...that is scary! I was reading the dribble on that web site and thinking to myself, WHY did I ever become a manager and move from the Union ranks? Why did I make the step that had me working 12 to 14 hours a day, stressed all the time? Why didn't I sit in that sweet spot of just going to work, punching the clock, getting paid when I worked OT?
I guess there are a lot of reasons. Challenge, trying something new, trying to be a success at something other than journeyman level trade proficiency, desire to make things happen instead of doing them myself...I guess it just comes down to what you want from life....

Seadog
10-27-2003, 12:10 PM
Most of my experience with unions have been either 'I'm union because they forced me to be" or "I'm union because the proletariat capitalist pigs would screw the workers of the world without them". The reality is that unions are dying at a fast pace because they no longer work for the interests of the populace. The unions have changed little since the days of the Molly McGuires. Our society has got to get its act together and rethink how we do business. We are in danger of losing our white collar jobs to Asia because of the fact that we are promoting the idea of high pay for little work. Manufacturing is leaving the country to go where the labor cost is cheap. At some point, our economy will collapse because nobody is in the middle class. It will all be bargain labor or the fat cats. The idea of a world economy is great, but it hurts the U.S. the most. The key is to make changes that will help our economy, but not at the expense of destroying other countries ability to function. I personally would start restricting imports from China due to their human rights violations.

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by OGShocker
Q. Why is it you see the "Live Better/Work Union" sticker on the bumpers of POS cars and trucks but, the guys who "RUN" the Unions drive expensive cars like Cadillacs and Lincons?
A. Because those "Fat Cats" are defrauding the working people of this GREAT NATION!
Ever wonder why they called it the Soviet UNION?
My .02
OGS
Hmmmmm, kind of what I like to call the "Evil trilogy" theory. Evil Government, Evil Corporations and Evil Unions all trying to perpetuate thier interests and protect thier turf. Only people getting screwed in this bargain are you and I.

Tremor Therapy
10-27-2003, 12:47 PM
A couple of things.....
I can appreciate what the union members are doing, and like them, I didn't like to see my health care go from $5 a week to $40 per week, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I've also had a Saturday or a Sunday as part of my normal working schedule, and never received any additional pay. And, like many of you, my family has gone shopping, and the macho types walking the line have verbally abused my wife, and then turned their backs and not said a word to me.
Well last Wednesday we went shopping at our local grocery store as usual, dropped wifey off at the door, parked the car and dragged out the kids, and met her inside. Well this time I overheard my wife getting accosted at the door, and when I walked by with the kids, nothing was said. Well that just pissed me off, so I told my wife if someone says something to you again, tell them you are filling out an application, come home and get me, and then point out the asshole who said something.
Well someone did just that on Sunday. So I go back with my wife to find this guy, and to have her fill out an app. Well 30 minutes later she gets hired, on the spot for $20 an hour.....full time starting today at nine am! Now she gets no benefits, and she will loose her job once the 2 sides resolve their differences, but I'll tell you something, my wife went to school to be in the medical profession, and after 10 years, that is all she was making before she lost her job.
Now she has read the company hand book, took her first "cashier" training course, and called me at lunch laughing. You have got to be kidding me, drag a bag of frozen peas through a bar code scanner, and you get $20 bucks an hour?
I gotta tell ya, that sure seems like skilled labor!
Maybe someone should have informed the grocery profession that there have been tough economic times for others out in the world, and that $20 an hour is a great wage for someone who has been unemployed for 6 months!

little rowe boat
10-27-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by phuggit
CA STU
Yeah it was the Albertsons at Trautwein and V.B. Seems they will only do it to people they think they can intimidate, i.e. women and elderly.
Punk asses Yah I drive in there also,because I work just around the corner.I wish them all the luck in the world.The stories I hear from the strikers is that the people that cross the picket lines are either SCABS or people that just want to give them an earfull.I told them give it right back.Because they are the real PUNK ASSES.

Dave C
10-27-2003, 01:02 PM
"It's the Unions that make your propertiy/homes worth what they are"
That is the funniest thing I think I have heard today!..... Boy there are some characters on this board.
I don't see many union members buying in my neighborhood so how does the union drive the value of my house up?

little rowe boat
10-27-2003, 01:06 PM
Like I said in an earlier post if it wasn't for the unions their would be only an upper class and a lower class.The middle class would be non existant.This country runs on the back of the middle class worker.

You Te
10-27-2003, 01:42 PM
The joke of the day.
LIVE BETTER WORK UNION.:eek: :eek:
If the union does the job, it's first class.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
If you're a lazy ass, go union.:eek: :eek:
You Te

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
Yah I drive in there also,because I work just around the corner.I wish them all the luck in the world.The stories I hear from the strikers is that the people that cross the picket lines are either SCABS or people that just want to give them an earfull.I told them give it right back.Because they are the real PUNK ASSES.
That has to be one of the silliest things I have heard on the board today. I'm going down south this week for a family get together. I am going to go to the Albertsons by Mom and Dads house just to cross the lines now! Harrassing women and the elderly...pahhhhhlease! And if they want to call me a SCAB, I can call them a few names too... live by the sword, die by the sword!

TrojanDan
10-27-2003, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by CA Stu
30 PACKS OF BEER $9.99
At Ralph's.
CA Stu
Got my coupon cut out already plus my free head of lettuce! Vons has a better deal, $4.99 for an 18-pack! Can't wait to go shopping tonight. I'm tired of buying my bread and milk at the liquor store. :cool:

OGShocker
10-27-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
Like I said in an earlier post if it wasn't for the unions their would be only an upper class and a lower class.The middle class would be non existant.This country runs on the back of the middle class worker.
OGS, Rolling my eyes and shaking my head:rolleyes:
Thank you for the job you and brothers and sisters do LRB.

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 02:13 PM
Here is an example of runaway union BS. I was down in San Diego a month ago. I was there for a business meeting. While there, I needed to get a mouse for my computer so, I went to the Staples on Mira Mesa. Outside there were two members of the Carpenters Union (the union I was a member of for 9.5 years) handing out fliers. I took one and went into the store and read it.
They were asking me to boycott Staples because they SOLD OFFICE SUPPLIES to a contractor that they were involved in a dispute with.
I stopped to talk to the guys out front, they were very friendly and we talked about working in construction and in the union and what has changed over the years. I let them know that I had been a member of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America (whew what a mouthful)....and told them it was their right to express an opinion, but to my recollection there is something called a Secondary Boycott.
Now as I remember (again a bit foggy, been 17 years) a Secondary Boycott is illegal. Problem is that the union BA probably knows that they can get away with it as long as it is hit and run. If I were the Staples Corporate Counsel, I would likely seek an injunction if it didn't cost an arm and a leg. Problem is...it does.
Regardless I bought a bunch of other stuff in the store I really did not need right at that moment and let them know I did to give them some small message of disapproval.

You Te
10-27-2003, 02:34 PM
Gee, all this talk makes me hungry, I'm going to Vons.
You Te

CEO
10-27-2003, 02:41 PM
I'm sick of those bastards at the picket lines when I go shopping. "Will you go to stater bros tonight?", "NO!" I wish some of those people would confront me. "Remember when I was the 3rd person in line and the 2 people ahead of me had shopping carts over flowing with crap and a stack of coupons in hand? While you and your 2 buddies were comparing days off instead of opening a Ficking check stand to get the HELL out of there. NO, I'm sure you don't. I do! We all have to do what we have to do, so don't try to get me or my family to shop elsewhere. WE all get screwed by our companies, one way or another.
CEO

HammerDown
10-27-2003, 03:00 PM
Remember not to long ago when some Food Store(cant recall the Branch)... wanted there checkers to wear diapers, yea thats right F'ing DIAPERS! Because the stores did'nt want there employes to take a piss/shit break!
I guess a Union was a waste of time for that one...some of these Companys are to much.

OGShocker
10-27-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by HammerDown
Remember not to long ago when some Food Store(cant recall the Branch)... wanted there checkers to wear diapers, yea thats right F'ing DIAPERS! Because the stores did'nt want there employes to take a piss/shit break!
I guess a Union was a waste of time for that one...some of these Companys are to much.
.
.
.
:rolleyes:

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by HammerDown
Remember not to long ago when some Food Store(cant recall the Branch)... wanted there checkers to wear diapers, yea thats right F'ing DIAPERS! Because the stores did'nt want there employes to take a piss/shit break!
I guess a Union was a waste of time for that one...some of these Companys are to much.
You know HD I remember that too, but I don't think it was a food store, but a food processor like Tyson Chicken or similar operation. They didn't want to have to slow the line while the worker went to the John. I am sure that there was some pencil necked VP that dreamed up that idea. Clearly, That one deserved the middle finger from the workers there...
There is more than enough stupidity to go around, companies are dorks, government is full of morons, and unions have thier own problems...

HammerDown
10-27-2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
There is more than enough stupidity to go around, companies are dorks, government is full of morons, and unions have thier own problems...
Could not have said it better myself...well put!
PS. for some reason I thought it was food checkers:confused: anyhow...that one floored me.

You Te
10-27-2003, 03:18 PM
I'm back from Vons, some girl told me, have a nice day as I was leaving, I told her, you too.:D
You Te

OGShocker
10-27-2003, 03:43 PM
What a bi**h....:D
I had a 13 yearold boy say the same thing. Then his Dad (I think) came over and yelled at him for being nice....... What a D**K

You Te
10-27-2003, 03:49 PM
Photos tomorrow of the workers as I crosss the line.
You Te

Mrs Sandbar Junkie
10-27-2003, 04:24 PM
Union family here! Won't be crossing any picket lines. Been shopping @ Stater Bros, which by the BLOWS!!!:yuk: I definitely can't wait until this is all settled and I can go back to the nice clean Albertsons that I usually shop at!!!!!!!!!!!!

little rowe boat
10-27-2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
That has to be one of the silliest things I have heard on the board today. I'm going down south this week for a family get together. I am going to go to the Albertsons by Mom and Dads house just to cross the lines now! Harrassing women and the elderly...pahhhhhlease! And if they want to call me a SCAB, I can call them a few names too... live by the sword, die by the sword! Think about it, this thread wouldn't have started if someone wasn't trying to piss off someone.:confused:

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
Think about it, this thread wouldn't have started if someone wasn't trying to piss off someone.:confused:
Good point! I will cede that one to you LRB!:D

NoFearFoxy1
10-27-2003, 06:06 PM
Our Sunday pay is time and a half. Although our bussiness doubles on Sunday we have the least workers on that day, as well. With all the frustrations of the Sunday ad, coupons, rainchecks, shelves empty of ad items as there is not enough sent to the store, whining customers. I somehow keep that smile on my face and give great customer service as I get to run the store from my checkstand.....Yes that's right I get to carry keys and get no management pay for that. Of course it is the store director day off.
I have worked for Ralph's for 28 years. Now that I am soon to retire they want to pay me less monthly on my retirement and many take aways on health benefits. Every time the contracts are up we realize there will be some take aways. But they are going way over board this time. They don't even want to give us a 50cent pay raise until 2005.

little rowe boat
10-27-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
Our Sunday pay is time and a half. Although our bussiness doubles on Sunday we have the least workers on that day, as well. With all the frustrations of the Sunday ad, coupons, rainchecks, shelves empty of ad items as there is not enough sent to the store, whining customers. I somehow keep that smile on my face and give great customer service as I get to run the store from my checkstand.....Yes that's right I get to carry keys and get no management pay for that. Of course it is the store director day off.
I have worked for Ralph's for 28 years. Now that I am soon to retire they want to pay me less monthly on my retirement and many take aways on health benefits. Every time the contracts are up we realize there will be some take aways. But they are going way over board this time. They don't even want to give us a 50cent pay raise until 2005. Best of luck to you and your co-workers.I hope it all works out.

lovemyultra
10-27-2003, 07:04 PM
just keep it up you guys at the stores and on the lines are doing the right thing dont let people that think they are educated on this situation bring you down at all ,again everybody is generalizing with the word unions they are not all the same organizations.And whoever thinks they know the story behind the handbill at staples you obviously dont but let me know and I will educate you if you want to at least make statements that are close to true

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by lovemyultra
just keep it up you guys at the stores and on the lines are doing the right thing dont let people that think they are educated on this situation bring you down at all ,again everybody is generalizing with the word unions they are not all the same organizations.And whoever thinks they know the story behind the handbill at staples you obviously dont but let me know and I will educate you if you want to at least make statements that are close to true
Hmmmmmm....I got the handbill, read it and called BS. WTF are you talking about?? You are going to educate me...interesting....
Here is the definition of a secondary boycott:
A secondary boycott occurs when the aggrieved party attempts either to boycott a third party or to coerce it into joining an ongoing boycott. Thus, workers instituting a boycott may refuse to patronize firms that continue to deal with the initially boycotted party. Similarly, a secondary boycott would occur if workers struck an employer in order to force him to join the boycott of another firm. In the United States, such secondary actions are prohibited by both the Taft-Hartley Act (1947) and the Landrum-Griffin Act (1959), although little has been done to enforce the ban.
I don't care about the circumstances of the situation with Staples the carpenters union was involved in an ILLEGAL secondary boycott.

mtndewdrops
10-27-2003, 08:04 PM
No picket line crossing for us...We respect what the unions do for the employees. Some of these large companies try to take advantage of the workers and the workers need to be represented. I am tired of the benefits being taken away, co-pays increasing, deductibles increasing, when the wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living. These large companies are making a fortune and it's never good enough for the stockholders.

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 08:08 PM
Well, I am waiting to be educated...:rolleyes:

JetBoatRich
10-27-2003, 08:10 PM
I was talking to a PICKETER today, she said Albertsons and Ralphs may let the workers back, but Vons said no way.:(

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by JetBoatRich
I was talking to a PICKETER today, she said Albertsons and Ralphs may let the workers back, but Vons said no way.:(
I hope they wait to get my ass down to southern california, I want the satisfaction of crossing that line after some of the BS I have heard tonight on this "discussion" board...sorry I just can't help it.:eek:

little rowe boat
10-27-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Well, I am waiting to be educated...:rolleyes: The bottom line is that the supermarkets are trying to take away benefits.The picketers are just asking to leave things as they are.

You Te
10-27-2003, 09:28 PM
Here's an education for all you union people that don't want to cross the line.
Those who are for the union will pay 25% more for their goods.
EG. Union lovers $1.25 Union haters $1.00
So if you love the union open your pocket book, someone has to pay these circus monkeys.
You Te

little rowe boat
10-27-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by You Te
Here's an education for all you union people that don't want to cross the line.
Those who are for the union will pay 25% more for their goods.
EG. Union lovers $1.25 Union haters $1.00
So if you love the union open your pocket book, someone has to pay these circus monkeys.
You Te Those so called circus monkeys are just trying to hold onto their benefits.If I were in their shoes trying to keep their medical ins.I'd be picketing too.

CA Stu
10-27-2003, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
The bottom line is that the supermarkets are trying to take away benefits.The picketers are just asking to leave things as they are.
Well, my health insurance costs have almost doubled in the last 3 years, I'm self employed, what do I do?
I bite the bullet and pay up, that's what.
It's unrealistic, selfish and juvenile to expect employers to continue to single-handedly shoulder the ever-increasing financial burden of health insurance regardless of past contracts / agreements. At some point, the workers will have to chip in. I wish my health insurance only cost me $95 per week.
I didn't start this thread to piss anyone off, I honored the picket lines for a week. I don't want to see anyone get taken advantage of or used, but now I feel like I've been used as a pawn by the union.
If these "poor" $20+ per hour, full benefit union picketers are gonna play the "victim" card, screw 'em.
Thanks
CA Stu

You Te
10-27-2003, 10:01 PM
Well little rowe boat,
I pay 100% of my medical ins., that's about $450.00 a month, for myself and the wife, I don't like to pay it, but I do, should I go on strike because it's to high?
There is such a thing as getting an extra job for extra money.
Here's a benefit, We live in the U.S.A. and we have jobs.
Here's what I would do if I had it my way, Those of you who wish to work, get back to your jobs, Those of you that want to cry, go do it in the unemployment line, YOU'RE FIRED.:eek:
You Te

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
The bottom line is that the supermarkets are trying to take away benefits.The picketers are just asking to leave things as they are.
So why is that my fight? Why should I support them? Sorry I don't feel any need to burden myself with their issues...especially when I don't believe in them, I have enough problems of my own thank you very much.
And LRB this post was directed at lovemyultra a union official who said I didn't know what I was talking about on the issue of a secondary boycott. He didn't get the flier and read it from the union members leafleting outside of Staples. I did. I KNOW what it said. Even if the issue between the union, the contractor in question and Staples was more direct it is still boycotting a third party, the definition of a secondary boycott. Secondary boycotts are ILLEGAL, but the unions get away with them all the time.

little rowe boat
10-27-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by CA Stu
Well, my health insurance costs have almost doubled in the last 3 years, I'm self employed, what do I do?
I bite the bullet and pay up, that's what.
It's unrealistic, selfish and juvenile to expect employers to shoulder this ever-increasing financial burden of health insurance regardless of past contracts / agreements. At some point, the workers will have to chip in. I wish my health insurance only cost me $95 per wek.
I didn't start this thread to piss anyone off, I honored the picket lines for a week. I don't want to see anyone get taken advantage of or used, but now I feel like I've been used as a pawn by the union.
If these "poor" $20+ per hour, full benefit union picketers are gonna play the "victim" card, screw 'em.
Thanks
CA Stu My Ins. rates are going up too and it's going to cost me another 1000.00 a year to keep my wife insured.Maybe i'm lucky my employer not trying to take away benefits on top of the rate increase from the ins.co. The striking grocery workers rates are also increasing and their employers are decreasing their benefits on top of the ins. co. rate up. All they want is for no decrease in benefits.

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 10:12 PM
Oh and I have been an independent consultant for a long time now, and I pay 100% of my insurance, a little over $500 a month. And my expenses, and social security, and my business insurance, marketing costs, and on and on. And no, I am not a fat cat rich guy. The truck drivers in PA make more than I do. Sorry, No sympathy from me, NONE! Sorry, I could have stayed in that sweet spot like lots of people do, but I chose a different path. :eek:

little rowe boat
10-27-2003, 10:23 PM
Dr Eagle .Because you chose a different path,you have no sympathy.I'm not trying to start trouble here but it sounds like you blaming them for your decision.Some of us chose our careers and others took jobs out of necessity.Either way we all want whats best for our families.So they are striking to keep their families insured.

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
Dr Eagle .Because you chose a different path,you have no sympathy.I'm not trying to start trouble here but it sounds like you blaming them for your decision.Some of us chose our careers and others took jobs out of necessity.Either way we all want whats best for our families.So they are striking to keep their families insured.
Not blaming anyone for anything, not at all. Getting the hell out of the union was the best damn thing I ever did for myself.
I decided to move on away from the union life because I was tired of them picking my pocket, telling me what to do, telling me how to vote and on and on. I was disgusted with the union from day one even as an apprentice. It was like working for two companies that didn't like each other very much. Seemed like a dysfunctional family.
Every time I went to a new job as a key man for the contractor, they gave me some run around and I always ended up making more than one trip to the local union to get cleared, sometimes I went home and did not work for several days because the UNION would not let me work. Lets see, paid my dues, valid union book, letter from the employer explaining why I am a key man...WTF?? Power, it corrupts absolutely! The local financial secretary had to flex his muscles...what a load of crap! That happened time after time.
I am not trying to start trouble either especially with you LRB. You are a firefighter and I have a great deal of respect for you and your profession.
I have none for Unions, but if the union has been good for you...great!
My experience with the union was far less positive and as such I will never, ever think like you, I am sorry, ain't happening. I guess that is what makes the world go around...
Anyway, I will NOT under any circumstance honor those (informational) or (read harrassment) picket lines, if I need something I am going in...they are welcome to heckle, but they had best expect to get it back.

You Te
10-27-2003, 10:44 PM
What's best for the family, is, get yo ass to work.
You Te

Dr. Eagle
10-27-2003, 10:48 PM
Damn double post!!!!!!!DOH!

Seadog
10-28-2003, 07:07 AM
The union leader of the OKC fire fighters just got a bunch of air time because he announced that the OKC FF would not endorse the Republican mayor for Congress, but are going to endorse a Democrat. Why should the union try and dictate who their members vote for. Sound like a tyranny to me. I greatly appreciate the firemen and police, but their union reps make me want to tie a tight line between their tongues and their dicks and watch them jackoff.

little rowe boat
10-28-2003, 07:18 AM
The IAFF endorses candidates on both sides of the aisle.Here in California the IAFF and the CSFA. were at odds over who was being endorsed during the recall election.Our union usually chooses to endorse the candidates that are pro-public safety.The candidates that wont cut our staffing levels. At times our jobs can be very demanding and dangerous,when candidates run that will hinder our effectiveness and safety we opose them regardless of their party affiliations.

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
The IAFF endorses candidates on both sides of the aisle.Here in California the IAFF and the CSFA. were at odds over who was being endorsed during the recall election.Our union usually chooses to endorse the candidates that are pro-public safety.The candidates that wont cut our staffing levels. At times our jobs can be very demanding and dangerous,when candidates run that will hinder our effectiveness and safety we opose them regardless of their party affiliations.
LRB, that is pretty refreshing. I had a very different experience. The Carpenters and Steelworkers unions I was in both stressed voting only for Democrats because they favor larger government and more government spending and came right out and said it. I guess the premise was that the greater the G spending the more jobs there would be for union members. Why is that good? Who does it benefit? The union...
Sorry, larger government and more government spending hurts everyone, the government does not create anything, it can only consume. Government like taxes is a necessary evil, necessary for the very reasons we are seeing in So Cal right now. Necessary to keep corporations in check, criminal activity under control, and so on.
I started off reading their recommendations, later I just threw them right in the garbage (while rolling my eyes).

superdave013
10-28-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by You Te
There is such a thing as getting an extra job for extra money.
You Te
That's what Tremor Therapy's wife did. lol, She just picked up a 20 buck an hour job at a supermarket. I think that's ****ing great. As a matter O fact I was kidding about filling out an app before. I get off work every day at 3:30 so I think that I will stop in Vons today. Right now I'm tight on cash and a night job that pays that good would be nice for a few weeks or more.

You Te
10-28-2003, 08:51 AM
SD013,
You've got the right idea, if you need more cash, work a little more.
But I guess union people can make more money walking a picket line and looking stupid.
What a shame, they have to beg in public for a free hand out.
You Te

Dave C
10-28-2003, 09:29 AM
little rowe boat
Like I said in an earlier post if it wasn't for the unions their would be only an upper class and a lower class.The middle class would be non existant.This country runs on the back of the middle class worker.
That is another funny quote. You guys are killing me with the progaganda.
Union members DO NOT make up the whole middle class. What about all those that went to college and are non union and all those non-union jobs? eh?
The PWBA lists 30 million participants in collective bargained retirement plans out of a total of 99 million people covered. So 68 million (69%) are non-union.
Also less than 50% of the workforce is covered by a retirement plans, so the total of non-union workers is probably more than that. Since most unions require retirement plans we can surmise that most of the remaining workforce is non-union.
Note alot of the noncoverage is due to employees not meeting eligibility and small employers that can't afford a retirement plan.

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by CA Stu
If these "poor" $20+ per hour, full benefit union picketers are gonna play the "victim" card, screw 'em.
Thanks
CA Stu
CA Stu, I make $17.90 an hour.
I work shifts at anytime they schedule me and my schedule is never the same from week to week. One day I may work at 3am the next day I don't go in till 3pm. I'll work till 12amthat night and have to be back at 8 am the next morning. To request a day off.... remember it's only a request. This is how wonderful the grocery business is, I was even scheduled on my wedding day.

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by You Te
Well little rowe boat,
I pay 100% of my medical ins., that's about $450.00 a month, for myself and the wife, I don't like to pay it, but I do, should I go on strike because it's to high?
There is such a thing as getting an extra job for extra money.
Here's a benefit, We live in the U.S.A. and we have jobs.
Here's what I would do if I had it my way, Those of you who wish to work, get back to your jobs, Those of you that want to cry, go do it in the unemployment line, YOU'RE FIRED.:eek: You Te
You Te, I am willing to pay part of my health benefits. I also pay union dues. Don't you think the big companies such as, Wal-Mart, Ralph's ect., who make millions and billions of dollars annually can pay for half or better of their employees health benefits.
Fact: The Walton family is worth about $102 billion--less than 1% of that could provide affordable health care for associates.
I wish to work and I'm not crying......I showed up for my Sunday shift at 7am Oct. 12th and was told I could not clock in. I was locked out. I DIDNOT walk out on my job or my customers.
And yes, I am going to try to collect unemployement for the first time in 40 years. They locked me out.

superdave013
10-28-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
CA Stu, I make $17.90 an hour.
I work shifts at anytime they schedule me and my schedule is never the same from week to week. One day I may work at 3am the next day I don't go in till 3pm. I'll work till 12amthat night and have to be back at 8 am the next morning. To request a day off.... remember it's only a request. This is how wonderful the grocery business is, I was even scheduled on my wedding day.
17.90! I'll take it! :D
NoFear, ya better get back to work before I get your job!

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
So why is that my fight? Why should I support them? Sorry I don't feel any need to burden myself with their issues...especially when I don't believe in them, I have enough problems of my own thank you very much.
And LRB this post was directed at lovemyultra a union official who said I didn't know what I was talking about on the issue of a secondary boycott. He didn't get the flier and read it from the union members leafleting outside of Staples. I did. I KNOW what it said. Even if the issue between the union, the contractor in question and Staples was more direct it is still boycotting a third party, the definition of a secondary boycott. Secondary boycotts are ILLEGAL, but the unions get away with them all the time.
Well Dr. E, This IS your fight unless you are a millionaire yourself. Because if we don't all ban together even if we make $15 an hour or $30. an hour, we will soon be making minimum wage for thoughs big companies and we all will be paying for our health insurance. I support all us little people no matter what labor dispute has been talked about in this forum.

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by superdave013
17.90! I'll take it! :D
NoFear, ya better get back to work before I get your job!
I wish I could. :)

Tremor Therapy
10-28-2003, 10:33 AM
My wife and I had a long talk after she came home last night. The manager of the Ralph's where she is now working has been observing the assinine behavior of some of the people picketting, and he told my wife that at least 10 of them will never spend another working day in his store.
He understands why they are out there, but harassing customers, verbally abusing and "menacing" (yes "menacing" which is a crime in this state) the new employees, has opened his eyes to the type of people he really wants working for him. In fact, after 1, and I repeat, 1 eight hour shift, the guy wants my wife to assume a head cashier position, and become the closer for his store.
Now I don't know what it took for the union employees to attain this lofty position, but all it took was an unemployed woman one 8 hour shift busting her ass to get promoted. In fact the assistant manager has hinted around that my wife may get a permanent position once this is all over.......after one friggin shift!
But, like I stated earlier, I understand why these people are out on the lines, and I can appreciate it. But if you have been unemployed for 6 months, and you have looked for a decent job the entire time, a $20 per hour full time job is like winning the lotto! And like many of you, I am college educated, part of management, I am not a union member, nor have I ever been. And no my benefits are no better than the rank and file. I work over time and weekends on a consistent basis, and I get no extra pay.
So do I feel sorry for them....hell no. I have to be here when the hourlies get their double and triple-time wages......but you gotta do what you gotta do, and after being unexpected unemployed for 6 months my wife is just out there taking care of business......period.

OGShocker
10-28-2003, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
Well Dr. E, This IS your fight unless you are a millionaire yourself. Because if we don't all ban together even if we make $15 an hour or $30. an hour, we will soon be making minimum wage for thoughs big companies and we all will be paying for our health insurance. I support all us little people no matter what labor dispute has been talked about in this forum.
So, let's see..... Kill the BIG companies? OK, WORKERS UNITE!!! Spoken like a true citizen of the Peoples Repubilc of California.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
Well Dr. E, This IS your fight unless you are a millionaire yourself. Because if we don't all ban together even if we make $15 an hour or $30. an hour, we will soon be making minimum wage for thoughs big companies and we all will be paying for our health insurance. I support all us little people no matter what labor dispute has been talked about in this forum.
Well, NFF, nice try. First of all, how dare you try to tell me what I need to support. This is not my fight, and I do not support it given the current economic times.
The Union supports the proletariat from the evil companies, I know that is the propaganda from the Union hacks. Fact is they do not know when to say when. Times change and so does the market place. I am sure the union people are happy to see you in lock step with the "union masses".
Problem is that since these companies are trying to figure out how to compete in the current market and economic times something has to give. If the union doesn't want to accept the offer from the company, they have the right to strike.
The companies also have some rights in the market place. So how many jobs will be lost when Vons, Albertsons and Ralphs file Chapter 11? Or when they merge into Mega-Low-Foods.
Bottom line, think what the hell you want to think. I think a lot of unions are more akin to organized crime than to the savior of the proletariat. So I will think what the hell I want to think too...you don't have to like it...and you are not going to change it. In fact you have reinforced it!

Rivertoys
10-28-2003, 10:48 AM
I have not followed this whole thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating anything needlessly...
I heard some stores are moving to bust the union! This will be the best case scenario for them & all of us IMO.
Back in the day, when being a grocery checker was more or less a skilled position, with ten-key skills being needed at the very least, I can see paying them so well. But now that there is basically no skill required for the same job, pay needs to be adjusted accordingly. They do less actual work than a counter worker at Mc Donalds (who must work the register, make change, get the drinks, and fill the order accurately - not just scan items, reverse coupons, and give bills only change).
RTJas :D

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by OGShocker
So, let's see..... Kill the BIG companies? OK, WORKERS UNITE!!! Spoken like a true citizen of the Peoples Repubilc of California.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Amen, bro. A real Peoples Republic kind of statement I'd say.

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Well, NFF, nice try. First of all, how dare you try to tell me what I need to support. This is not my fight, and I do not support it given the current economic times.
The Union supports the proletariat from the evil companies, I know that is the propaganda from the Union hacks. Fact is they do not know when to say when. Times change and so does the market place. I am sure the union people are happy to see you in lock step with the "union masses".
Problem is that since these companies are trying to figure out how to compete in the current market and economic times something has to give. If the union doesn't want to accept the offer from the company, they have the right to strike.
The companies also have some rights in the market place. So how many jobs will be lost when Vons, Albertsons and Ralphs file Chapter 11? Or when they merge into Mega-Low-Foods.
Bottom line, think what the hell you want to think. I think a lot of unions are more akin to organized crime than to the savior of the proletariat. So I will think what the hell I want to think too...you don't have to like it...and you are not going to change it. In fact you have reinforced it!
Oh, don't take it so badly. If you don't want to join in the fight don't. But, if we find a better solution to everyone's health care problem and you wouldn't have to pay $500. a month you would probably join in that one.
I just think people should stick together.
Von's, Albertson's and Ralph's are not hurting for money. They just see Wal-Mart is making more then them and they want that same profit. That is what they are competing for. My store just had a remodel. Hummm, do we really need Chandliers in a grocery store? They have plenty of money, plenty of profit, and I don't see Chapter 11 in the near future on Ralph's.
I do not condone thoughs picketing that are rude and menacing to the scabs and customers. They don't deserve their jobs back if they are nice to their customers one week and the next mean. Shame on them.

Tremor Therapy
10-28-2003, 12:50 PM
I do not condone thoughs picketing that are rude and menacing to the scabs and customers. They don't deserve their jobs back if they are nice to their customers one week and the next mean. Shame on them.
NFF,
I mean this with all sincerity, but that is the first level headed statement I have heard from any of the people picketting. And, as I have previously stated, I understand what it is you are trying to do.
However, I think that your Union has betrayed you in the economic climate that we currently find ourselves in. The people in our state alone have lost their jobs by the tens of thousands, and I think you would even agree that trying to ask for more, or to hold the line with what you have, is going to be difficult given the current economic climate. Have you checked to see if your employers workers comp fees have increased the 45% that my employers has?
You need to remember what comes around goes around....from 1995-2001, companies were over paying to get skilled labor. When companies have to over pay for labor, that begins the chain of events....higher wages, increased buying power, increased demand, limited supply, increase in prices. And the cycle just continues. I do not know what the specifics may have been for your industry, but I do know that the company I was working for was seriously over paying for anyone in the high tech field, and the benefits packages were seriously out of control.
So now your Union decides to push the issue. No offense, but what a bunch of morons!

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
Oh, don't take it so badly. If you don't want to join in the fight don't. But, if we find a better solution to everyone's health care problem and you wouldn't have to pay $500. a month you would probably join in that one.
I just think people should stick together.
Von's, Albertson's and Ralph's are not hurting for money. They just see Wal-Mart is making more then them and they want that same profit. That is what they are competing for. My store just had a remodel. Hummm, do we really need Chandliers in a grocery store? They have plenty of money, plenty of profit, and I don't see Chapter 11 in the near future on Ralph's.
I do not condone thoughs picketing that are rude and menacing to the scabs and customers. They don't deserve their jobs back if they are nice to their customers one week and the next mean. Shame on them.
First of all, I get animated, but I was not pissed off. You would KNOW if I were. I just have a problem with people telling me what I think or should think, putting words in my mouth, etc. And telling me I need to stand up to the EVIL grocery stores. Come on, give me a friggin break. Sorry I am not drinking the Cool Aid.
As far as the health care, all I can say is Oh contrair mon frair, if you are talking about Government based Universal Health Care "Hillary Care" as again we diverge. IF you think the Retail Clerks union is going to effect my health care costs in any other way, I say you give them far, far too much credit! Such "Universal" health care DOES NOT FRIGGIN WORK. Look at Canada, Sweden, Norway, and on and on. There are more cat scan machines in Washington DC than in all of Canada! Why, their health care system is in serious trouble!
I have a number of Canadian friends and former colleagues from AT&T Wireless in Seattle, they are damn glad to be HERE in the US.
As for your OPINIONS of what the managers want regarding profits at the big 3, they are just that. Your opinions! You don't know, it is just a generalized outlook based upon your circumstances and what the Union Hacks have been telling you. They may be in far worse shape than you think...I at least admit I don't know, you should too.

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 12:53 PM
Headquartered in Cincinnati, Ohio, The Kroger Company (NYSE:KR) is one of the nation's largest grocery retailers, with fiscal 2002 sales of $51.8 billion.
The Kroger Company spans many states with store formats that include grocery and multi-department stores, convenience stores and mall jewelry stores . We operate under nearly two dozen banners.
Ralph's is owned by Kroger.
I got this off of Ralph's.com. So I DO know how much they make and now you do too.:)

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 12:59 PM
Well said Tremorzzzz,
I too saw the pay bubble in high tech, seemed the sky was the limit for skilled people for a while. That is not the case now, for those still lucky enough to be working many have had benefits reduced or eliminated, and pay cut. It sucks that these cycles occur, but they do and everyone has to accept that reality.:( :(

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
Headquartered in Cincinnati, Ohio, The Kroger Company (NYSE:KR) is one of the nation's largest grocery retailers, with fiscal 2002 sales of $51.8 billion.
The Kroger Company spans many states with store formats that include grocery and multi-department stores, convenience stores and mall jewelry stores . We operate under nearly two dozen banners.
Ralph's is owned by Kroger.
I got this off of Ralph's.com. So I DO know how much they make and now you do too.:)
Gross sales is no measure of financial health. How much PROFIT did they make???

OGShocker
10-28-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
Headquartered in Cincinnati, Ohio, The Kroger Company (NYSE:KR) is one of the nation's largest grocery retailers, with fiscal 2002 sales of $51.8 billion.
Hey folks! Another American sucess story! Good Job Kroger!
NFF; Thank you for sharing the above information. I love to hear when a company does well. BTW...... Do you know what the NET profits were? Oh, wait, do you know WHAT net profits ARE?
:rolleyes:

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 01:13 PM
CINCINNATI, OH, September 16, 2003 -- The Kroger Co. (NYSE: KR) today reported net earnings of $190.4 million, or $0.25 per diluted share, for the second quarter ended August 16, 2003. These results include a previously announced after-tax charge of $0.05 per diluted share to resolve disputes related to energy supply arrangements with Dynegy Inc. The results also include expense of $0.01 per diluted share, after tax, from the power blackout in parts of Ohio and Michigan last month. Additional detail on these and other items is provided in Table 2.
Net earnings in the year-ago period were $264.0 million, or $0.33 per diluted share. Those results include an after-tax charge of $10.1 million, or $0.01 per diluted share, from the items shown in Table 2.
Total sales for the second quarter of fiscal 2003 increased 3.6% to $12.4 billion. Total food-store sales rose 3.3%. Identical food-store sales, including fuel, declined 0.1%. Identical food-store sales, excluding fuel, decreased 0.9%. Comparable food-store sales, which include relocations and expansions, increased 0.5% for the quarter. Comparable food-store sales, excluding fuel, declined 0.4%. Kroger estimates that product cost inflation, including fuel, was 0.5% and, excluding fuel, was 0.2%.
How's that OGShocker

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
CINCINNATI, OH, September 16, 2003 -- The Kroger Co. (NYSE: KR) today reported net earnings of $190.4 million, or $0.25 per diluted share, for the second quarter ended August 16, 2003. These results include a previously announced after-tax charge of $0.05 per diluted share to resolve disputes related to energy supply arrangements with Dynegy Inc. The results also include expense of $0.01 per diluted share, after tax, from the power blackout in parts of Ohio and Michigan last month. Additional detail on these and other items is provided in Table 2.
Net earnings in the year-ago period were $264.0 million, or $0.33 per diluted share. Those results include an after-tax charge of $10.1 million, or $0.01 per diluted share, from the items shown in Table 2.
Total sales for the second quarter of fiscal 2003 increased 3.6% to $12.4 billion. Total food-store sales rose 3.3%. Identical food-store sales, including fuel, declined 0.1%. Identical food-store sales, excluding fuel, decreased 0.9%. Comparable food-store sales, which include relocations and expansions, increased 0.5% for the quarter. Comparable food-store sales, excluding fuel, declined 0.4%. Kroger estimates that product cost inflation, including fuel, was 0.5% and, excluding fuel, was 0.2%.
How's that OGShocker
Since you only picked info for one quarter, we would have to extrapolate the annualized profit. But from the looks of it they are working on about 2% net margin (help me OG), making the generous assumpiton that their annual net profit was 1billion. That is scary thin margin, and notice the year over year number down about 28%. Seems like you helped make our case, thanks.

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 01:31 PM
Ok Guys, you wanted to know if I knew they were making money, they are. Why just keep picking at it. Jeeez:rolleyes:

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
Ok Guys, you wanted to know if I knew they were making money, they are. Why just keep picking at it. Jeeez:rolleyes:
Good job NFF! The internet is a wonderful thing. Lots of information out there. But you did help make our case!
Yes they are making money, but one small turn around on a 2% (I think it is probably more like 1-3/4%) net margin and the company is in the red. Companies exist to make money. They are not on the earth as benevolent entities here to provide "no cost distribution". That profit number is extremely low, perhaps not for the industry, but low in general. Remember, they have to maintain stores, build new ones on occasion, in short re-invest in the company. The corporate machine seems to be working awaful hard to make 1-3/4%. Sooner or later the competitive landscape will change and the profit turns to loss, and after enough years of loss, the corporate management will be looking for a way out. That was my point.

Dave C
10-28-2003, 01:51 PM
1.5% net profit with EPS going down 37%.
That f#*cking sucks. No they are not making money I don't care what you call it. Put a sell order on it...

Dave C
10-28-2003, 01:58 PM
Someone mentioned about the Walton's wealth. The reason they are so wealthy is because they figured out how to make money by selling a large amount of stuff at the lowest possible price. This means cutting costs "effectively."
On AVERAGE people will buy the things they want at the lowest possible price they can find.
No amount of slogans, cheerleading or manipulation will change this fact.

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Dave C
1.5% net profit with EPS going down 37%.
That f#*cking sucks. No they are not making money I don't care what you call it. Put a sell order on it...
OK you got the real skinny. I was working with one quarters numbers and being generous in my extrapolation in both net and gross. You are right...SELL SELL SELL, gotta call the broker!

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Dave C
Someone mentioned about the Walton's wealth. The reason they are so wealthy is because they figured out how to make money by selling a large amount of stuff at the lowest possible price. This means cutting costs "effectively."
On AVERAGE people will buy the things they want at the lowest possible price they can find.
No amount of slogans, cheerleading or manipulation will change this fact.
noooooo, wrong! The Waltons are RICH because they must be EVIL!...
The Scary thing is that this is how some people really think, I'll never figure that out either! You nailed it right on, they figured out the right formula. Largest retailer in the world, started in ARKANSAS!! Whodda thunk?:eek: :eek:

OGShocker
10-28-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
Ok Guys, you wanted to know if I knew they were making money, they are. Why just keep picking at it. Jeeez:rolleyes:
Making money.....Hmmmmm.
Let's take the five year average on KR's stock price. The company has taken a very, I mean VERY big hit over the last five years ( as have others) Kroger has lost well over 50% of it's street value. Coming back from a hit that big takes time. Do you blame Bush for our economic woes? Recovery takes time.
I know companies turning big profits offends some people. I do not for the life of me understand why. If Dr. E and I are correct, the 2% margin KR ends up with would not help them to survive without Bank intervention.
To answer you question above. We are picking at it because, YOU DO NOT GET IT! They are in the business of MAKING MONEY! They are not in business to make you feel warm and fuzzy! FU*K Ralphs, go get a job and another company. If you look REAL hard you might find one that breaks even every FU*KING year! Then you can feel better about your paycheck and the draining effect your employement has on that company.
GRRRRrrrrrrrrrr!:mad:

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 02:11 PM
OK so I picked one quarter. I am SURE all they report is true. So I give in. I'm glad I don't own their stock. Thank you for opening my eyes:eek:

NoFearFoxy1
10-28-2003, 02:13 PM
OG you are being TOO nice.

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 02:15 PM
OG part of the reason the Union has so many of their members believing their BS is that none of them have a clue as to how business works.
How do companies stay in business when they are losing money?Their financial institution (bank) or investment partners (independent investors or stockholders) are asked to help out. But rest assured that the managment better have a friggin plan as to how to return to profitability.
In this case I think they have run numbers and projected out years ahead trying to figure where they will be financially with their costs escalating and pricing pressure in the market place. They are not just being difficult because they are by nature.

OGShocker
10-28-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by NoFearFoxy1
OK so I picked one quarter. I am SURE all they report is true. So I give in. I'm glad I don't own their stock. Thank you for opening my eyes:eek:
Holy S*IT.
Please tell me you are a LARGE breasted, small boned, Redhead with green eyes. I would like to think you had some redeeming factors.
If the answer is no I will leave this thread. Without that image in my head, I would be way too bored!:rolleyes:

OGShocker
10-28-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
OG part of the reason the Union has so many of their members believing their BS is that none of them have a clue as to how business works.
How do companies stay in business when they are losing money?Their financial institution (bank) or investment partners (independent investors or stockholders) are asked to help out. But rest assured that the managment better have a friggin plan as to how to return to profitability.
In this case I think they have run numbers and projected out years ahead trying to figure where they will be financially with their costs escalating and pricing pressure in the market place. They are not just being difficult because they are by nature.
Sometimes Doc', I wanna slam my head in to a wall. I think it would hurt less than dealing with some of the ninnies around me.

Dave C
10-28-2003, 02:28 PM
They don't teach this stuff in school anymore. Thats the problem.
Another moronic statement: "the Waltons should use some of their net worth to pay for health insurance."
That value is probably their market capitalization in the stock they own. (I.E. it’s the value of their stock)
Business expenses, such as insurance, are paid from earnings NOT from the value of their stock. If you sell the stock to pay expenses then the market value will go down. The idea of being in business is to make the market value go up.
So a more accurate number to look at is EPS which is .25 a share for the quarter. Or net profit $190 million

OGShocker
10-28-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Dave C
They don't teach this stuff in school anymore. Thats the problem.
Another moronic statement: "the Waltons should use some of their net worth to pay for health insurance."
That value is probably their market capitalization in the stock they own. (I.E. it’s the value of their stock)
Business expenses, such as insurance, are paid from earnings NOT from the value of their stock. If you sell the stock to pay expenses then the market value will go down. The idea of being in business is to make the market value go up.
So a more accurate number to look at is EPS which is .25 a share for the quarter. Or net profit $190 million
Thank you for pushing the pencil DC!

Dave C
10-28-2003, 02:35 PM
Doc. very well put.
I know a common union propaganda tactic is to wave around the market capitalization or gross sales of a company during a dispute. This confuses wealth with income. Companies cannot pay benefits and salaries from their wealth only from their profit.
Plus their profit must be split up among investors so an accurate number is EPS which is gross profit divided by shares outstanding. So thats how much profit per share of ownership. If you own 1000 shares, you get $250 profit. Big F*#king deal. This is also ignored or distorted.
This appeals to basic human nature of “jealously” by showing how much wealth “those fat cats” have compared the poor old employee. This is straight out of Karl Marx’ book.
Hence the term "useful idiots"

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Dave C
Doc. very well put.
I know a common union propaganda tactic is to wave around the market capitalization or gross sales of a company during a dispute. This confuses wealth with income. Companies cannot pay benefits and salaries from their wealth only from their profit.
This is straight out of Karl Marx’ book.
Hence the term "useful idiots"
That my friends is SPIN....The unions are masters at it....

miller19j
10-28-2003, 03:18 PM
This is pretty funny! The basic argument here is that the big corporations have enough money to afford to pay for healthcare and in the unions opinion so they should. If you follow that thinking I have enough money to pay for my local checkers healthcare so that means that I should.
Benefits are just that a benefit not an entitlement. Healthcare, Retirement, and Paid Vacation are things that your company gives employees as a reward. They do not owe you that! When times are hard and other companies are taking over your market share this is where every business starts cutting back.
Keep striking! Put more pressure on Big Corporate business and when its all said and done you are the ones who put yourselves out of a job!

You Te
10-28-2003, 03:35 PM
Blah blah blah,
No matter how you slice it, unions are bull shit and so is the strike.
You guy's can talk it to death and it still adds up to bull shit.
Interesting topic.
Bottom line, if you're hungry, get a job.:eek:
You Te

You Te
10-28-2003, 03:39 PM
Well spoken Miller19j.:D
You Te

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 03:51 PM
Te,
Sometimes it takes a lot of Blah Blah to convince someone their position is indefensible. Seems like it MIGHT have worked here.

Dave C
10-28-2003, 03:58 PM
Miller. excellent
But you already pay for someones entitlement benefits, its WELFARE.
I have a bumper sticker that reads: "Back to work, millions on welfare are counting on you.";)

miller19j
10-28-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Dave C
I have a bumper sticker that reads: "Back to work, millions on welfare are counting on you.";) I have one on my Tool Chest in the Garage that says “Keep working millions on welfare depend on you!” ;)

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Dave C
I have a bumper sticker that reads: "Back to work, millions on welfare are counting on you.";)
that is where our property tax and luxury tax we pay on our boats goes...everyone get crackin!

Tremor Therapy
10-28-2003, 04:07 PM
God puhleeze tell me we are not going to morph this into a welfare topic! :argue:

AZKC
10-28-2003, 04:09 PM
Hey Miller, WTF we miss you over at HD's:D we thought you were MIA:p
KC

AZKC
10-28-2003, 04:14 PM
I'll put it back on topic a little. Come on over to AZ its a right to work state, the big companies break Unions like twigs over here and it aint so bad :)
K"stirin it up"C

miller19j
10-28-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by AZKC
Hey Miller, WTF we miss you over at HD's:D we thought you were MIA:p
KC Just taking some time off over there. I’m still alive :)

AZKC
10-28-2003, 04:17 PM
http://www.havasudoug.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/good.gif
KC

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Tremor Therapy
God puhleeze tell me we are not going to morph this into a welfare topic! :argue:
Nahhhhh I was done!!!!!!!!!
Everybody else??????

BUSTI
10-28-2003, 04:29 PM
I have been reading this thread for days now and my dissappointment in the lack of basic business knowledge on most of you that support this strike is very alarming. There is not one internationally reknown economist that doesn't claim that Unions today are inflatioary to the economy and consumer prices. If unions are so good for the quality of life in this country why is every major industry trying to shed themselves of them? Trust in this if unions could insure greater product design and quality every company would be lining up to have union operations. After all ...al the company wants is greater profit eg.they would want to compete more and better against their compettion wouldn't they?
for thos eof you that ardently support this strike I recommend you do some reading. First read Adams Smith's Wealth of nations. Secondly read every book published by Ayn Rand. Especially her title Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal. As well as the Virtues of selfishness. And don't forget her ficticous novels The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. If with an open mind you read these works and you still support the union collective....then go back and read them again because you didn't understand them or you were to stupid to understand capitalism and free trade and what it means to mutually agree to barter for your wages and provide your employer with real value.
Our country was not founded by unions or collectives. It was founded by men and womwn who stood as individuals and freely traded their hard work and brtered freely with out coorresion for the best deal they could get for themselves at a fair wage. and they worked only for their own profits and never for some ineffecient collective...like a union. Guilds in this country were established to set standards weights, measures and quality certifications and guidlines. Only once socialist pukes infiltrated the guild movement in this country did the unions become so totalatarian with dues and picket signs. Yes working conditions in some industrries benifited form the collectives but the original guild movement in this country would have solved that problem..
Now the unions consider the owners of their companies their enemies and hate them. How sad. All of you socialist should go to foriegn countries and see what your collective ideas ultimately lead to. Only free men who work for them selves create a better US economy. When was the last time you got a job from a union rep? Wake up you union slogs and get off your asses and appreciate the J O B you have and go back to work!
And hammerdown your fist city comment shows a big difference between people like you and people like me. Thats why guys like you call guys like me BOSS!!!!!!!! the other difference is that guys like me waste more money per year than union guys make in a year. and guys like me do not need stupid lazy people carring signs to protect my income or job security. My security is how good I am at my job. You should try it sometime it is quite rewarding!
Sorry for the typos i just had another eye surgery and can't see that good today. :D

Dave C
10-28-2003, 04:47 PM
Uh oh, Busti used the term "Coercion"
I didn't want to go there but if the shoe fits wear it.;)
BTW. Smith's Wealth of Nations should be required reading in school. But its probably not by the looks of things. Too bad.

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Dave C
BTW. Smith's Wealth of Nations should be required reading in school. But its probably not by the looks of things. Too bad.
No but I bet the Communist Manifesto is.....

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 06:56 PM
Crickets....cherp........cherp.........cherp

HammerDown
10-28-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by BUSTI
Sorry for the typos i just had another eye surgery and can't see that good today. :D
You sure it was "eye surgery"...or did you just try to haul vehicles out of a Union based yard:D Now thats funny!
OK, so your against ANY Union and I'm for the GOOD ONES...and trust this there are GREAT ONES out there like the Steam fitters Local here in Philly Pa.
My Company Allied Systems is pro Union...they applaud the level and quality of work we provide them...they just want us to do it for pennies on the dollar like the scab workers earn so they can get even fatter. Or they don't want to honnor the contract they agreed to.
Sometimes you cant have the best of both worlds(like most Companys want)> great labor and cheap pay.
At least not with our Union.;)

OGShocker
10-28-2003, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by HammerDown
You sure it was "eye surgery"...or did you just try to haul vehicles out of a Union based yard:D Now thats funny!
OK, so your against ANY Union and I'm for the GOOD ONES...and trust this there are GREAT ONES out there like the Steam fitters Local here in Philly Pa.
My Company Allied Systems is pro Union...they applaud the level and quality of work we provide them...they just want us to do it for pennies on the dollar like the scab workers earn so they can get even fatter. Or they don't want to honnor the contract they agreed to.
Sometimes you cant have the best of both worlds(like most Companys want)> great labor and cheap pay.
At least not with our Union.;)
:rolleyes: Hey, how is the Steel business in PA? Oh, that's right Nucor took the steel business to Utah and BTW... They're NON UNION and VERY happy!

HammerDown
10-28-2003, 08:52 PM
2 things that bore me is talking Work and Politics.....
Soooo Im off to eat a slab of Pumpkin Pie, that was made in a Union Bakery by Union Bakers and delivered to the store by Union drivers...and I was happy to give my money to a Union Cashier. And I'm happy to know she's making $20.00+ Dollars an hour!:D

Dr. Eagle
10-28-2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by HammerDown
2 things that bore me is talking Work and Politics.....
Soooo Im off to eat a slab of Pumpkin Pie, that was made in a Union Bakery by Union Bakers and delivered to the store by Union drivers...and I was happy to give my money to a Union Cashier. And I'm happy to know she's making $20.00+ Dollars an hour!:D
You know I was going to say this thread was rode hard and needs to be put away wet. Or as Dieter would say "your thread has grown tiresome".
:D :D :D :D

You Te
10-28-2003, 09:26 PM
I guess Hammer Down is broke all the time.
You Te

little rowe boat
10-30-2003, 03:10 PM
I'm sorry but I like to open old wounds.I have been away at the fires for the last few days and I just got caught up on this thread.I understand many of you don't like unions and thats ok,everyone has an opinion.What this has turned into is a debate about health ins. benefits, and people trying to hold onto what they have. Which is where I stand trying to keep my family or myself and my wife insured.Premiums go up every year and every year it cost me more and more out of my pocket.I'm not asking for sympathy maybe just a solution.How about socialized medicine,it works in Canada.The problem with this solution is that the DR's. and Pharmaceutical co's will never let that happen.Why? Because then their profits would be minimal.sooner or later this is going to put the Ins. co's out of business, because only the wealthy will be able to afford health ins.SO WHATS THE SOLUTION? For many of us it is our union and it's ability to negotiate with our employers for more bene's.So remember when you see those picketers regardless wether or not you agree with their position,they are people with families doing whats they perceive is best for themselves and their families.:confused:

mirvin
10-30-2003, 03:16 PM
Finally crossed last night! First time though. Not a fan of unions myself. My company just raised my share of health coverage last month. Nobody complained. So now it costs me $15.00 instead of $8.00 a week to cover myself and my wife (full medical, dental, and vision). As a matter of fact I belong to a group of employees that aren't union, and there are several unions involved in my company and the non-union employees get the best benefits from the company!!

Dave C
10-30-2003, 03:23 PM
ya sure. ask a canadian how great their socialized medicine is to them.
"I'm sorry sir but heart surgery is elective so you will have to wait 3 years for that"....;)

al cole'holic
10-30-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
..So remember when you see those picketers regardless wether or not you agree with their position,they are people with families doing whats they perceive is best for themselves and their families.:confused:
...so going out on strike for weeks, and most likely months with absolutely no source of income in order to keep from having to pay for benefits and such like all of us non union working people already pay for is best? Unions like the UFCW is around so that those brain dead store employees can't lose their jobs...god forbid they join the career minded work force.

superdave013
10-30-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by HammerDown
2 things that bore me is talking Work and Politics.....
Soooo Im off to eat a slab of Pumpkin Pie, that was made in a Union Bakery by Union Bakers and delivered to the store by Union drivers...and I was happy to give my money to a Union Cashier. And I'm happy to know she's making $20.00+ Dollars an hour!:D
haha, I bet if it was a scab pie you could afford to eat the entier thing! :D
scab pie, now that sounds kinda gross eh?
30 packs @ 9.99 from your local scab run store! :D
Get it before the strike is over and it jumps to 30 bucks!

Havasu_Dreamin
10-30-2003, 03:40 PM
Yeah, what AlCole'Holic said!

MagicMtnDan
10-30-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
I'm sorry but I like to open old wounds.I have been away at the fires for the last few days and I just got caught up on this thread.I understand many of you don't like unions and thats ok,everyone has an opinion.What this has turned into is a debate about health ins. benefits, and people trying to hold onto what they have. Which is where I stand trying to keep my family or myself and my wife insured.Premiums go up every year and every year it cost me more and more out of my pocket.I'm not asking for sympathy maybe just a solution.How about socialized medicine,it works in Canada.The problem with this solution is that the DR's. and Pharmaceutical co's will never let that happen.Why? Because then their profits would be minimal.sooner or later this is going to put the Ins. co's out of business, because only the wealthy will be able to afford health ins.SO WHATS THE SOLUTION? For many of us it is our union and it's ability to negotiate with our employers for more bene's.So remember when you see those picketers regardless wether or not you agree with their position,they are people with families doing whats they perceive is best for themselves and their families.:confused:
With all due respect and gratitude for your courageous work as a fireman...
Socialized medicine does NOT work in Canada. Unless you consider waiting up to 6 MONTHS for an MRI a good thing (a person can DIE before they get an MRI there). You really need to understand how broken Canada's socialized medicine is before you wish it on us. It's most certainly not the panacea you seem to think it is.
I undestand that the strikers want more benefits. I don't condone their going out on strike or picketing in front of the stores. They are hurting the stores by doing this and of course you say, that's the purpose of their strike! Well, what happens if I, a non-union person, picket in front of my company when I don't get the benefits I want? I lose my job that very day and waste all my time out there while someone else is hired to take my place. If strikers hurt the company they stopped working for why in a real world would you expect the stores to welcome them back and why would you expect us, the customers, to be happy to see them back after they've blocked the entrance and intimidated us, the shoppers?! (Go on strike but set up your picket line out at the street so other union members see it and don't cross it if that's what they choose).
Are union people going to come to my company and help me when I have to pay more for my health care benefits? Of course not. This is all a supreme waste of everyone's time and energy. If the strikers aren't happy with their pay and benefits they should go out and get a different job. That's what the rest of the world does (the non-union world). That's what I encourage all of the strikers to do. Meanwhile, there are plenty of people who are willing to take what the grocery stores will pay. You would call them "scabs" but I would call them "employees."
Again, I thank you for your courageous efforts at fighting these fires and protecting people and property.

al cole'holic
10-30-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
Yeah, what AlCole'Holic said!
..hey, in my opinion the grocery stores are bitchen jobs for the bro's in high school and 18, 19 year olds tops. Killer money as a kid, and you learn some good work ethics and people skills but that's it...get out of that line of work right there!

JetBoatRich
10-31-2003, 08:19 PM
Went to Vons today, tired of going elsewhere. I guess the Ralph's people were sent there. My son and I were walking out and we were about 40' from the people out front when someone yelled something pretty bad at us. I turned around said I have my son with me. So I unloaded the groceries and took the cart back to the area where they were and asked if he would like to repeat it. One guy spoke up and totally started to say how sorry he was and kids should not hear this crap. We talked for awhile and all was good. Pretty much BS, they act that way screw them I will go there all the time now.

Dr. Eagle
10-31-2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by little rowe boat
.How about socialized medicine,it works in Canada.The problem with this solution is that the DR's. and Pharmaceutical co's will never let that happen.Why? Because then their profits would be minimal.sooner or later this is going to put the Ins. co's out of business, because only the wealthy will be able to afford health ins.
Ohhhhh contrair LRB. Socialized medicine does not work in Canada. I have plenty of Canadian Colleagues that are thrilled to be working in the US on NAFTA visas. They have told me that getting treated for anything other than a runny nose is pulling teeth up there. I have said this three times now, there are more CAT scan machines in Washington DC than all of Canada. Their health care system is as broken as it gets, and you have a dual system going on there too. People with money go across the border and pay to have things done in the US that they cannot get in Canada. So now the Egalitarian system becomes two tiered. Haves and have nots.
Second point, an example of where the money goes.
I just went through a huge injury, surgery and extended recovery. The doctor had to basically rebuild my knee, reattach several tendons that were cut and clean and repair the cartelage. The operation started at 1:00 am on the saturday morning of Memorial Day weekend, (where would we all be at that time if we had our way...the water) I went in through the emergency room.
His fee was $15,500 for the surgery which lasted 4 hours. The insurance company marked it down to $3,500 and said it was their "supplier discount".
Doctors and care givers were cleaning up years back, but now the insurance company TELLS them what they will charge for services. The insurance company took about a 70% discount on all services rendered.
What really drives up medical costs so much is that in order to avoid a possible malpractice suit, doctors will insist on tests and procedures just to cover their ass. Multiply this by millions of medical cases and it turns into billions of dollars. This is one of the largest holes in the American system.
Regardless, I have had to pay for 1/2 of my health care insurance costs on my best job. Now I pay 100%. We all get squeezed, that is a fact of the economic times. Your union brothers and sisters out there may be instrumental in the destruction of their own livelyhood if they continue on this path. But, since this is America, they can make that choice.