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BALLSDEEP
10-23-2003, 06:59 PM
Does anyone have any feedback on Advantage Boats??? I will hopefully be driving a boat by next season. I am still undecided what I want, either 25Â’ Howard or 27Â’ Advantage Victory depending on what I can afford. I just looked in the boat trader, and there are quite a few Advantages, but they donÂ’t seem to hold their resale value, why? Are they cheap? I have a friend who has a 25Â’ Advantage, itÂ’s a nice boat it handles big water fairly well, and itÂ’s always been turnkey. But I am curious why they are so inexpensive when you look used?

TCHB
10-23-2003, 07:03 PM
I was looking at the 25 Advantage last year and they were pretty good to work with. The boat is build solid, and seem to stand behind the product. I bought a Howard!

boxscore
10-23-2003, 07:28 PM
The Howard is likely the way to go for build quality
and resale value.
I've owned two Advantages, a PartyCat and a Citation.
While the hull seems to be good, they really skimp in
other areas., i.e. $5 plastic battery boxes, $35 batteries,
they do not use 100% stainless fasteners,
fugly bimini hardware, cheap switches,
and beedee guages that fail more often than
any other gauge I've ever seen. They notched the
inside of my transom to fit silent choice exhaust and
didn't bother to resin and seal the bare wood. This is a good
example of the riggers churning out boat after boat.
The build quality suffers as a result. Howard builds
very very few boats each year. Advantage is pretty good
about warranty work, but who wants to deal with a
broken boat to start with? Their upholstery is top
notch and they'll let you go wild on graphics w/o any
upcharges. Probably why you see so many silly
gels on their rigs. They'll let you do whatever you
want w/o saying a thing. That will get the average
new boat owner in trouble in a hurry.

expert4
10-23-2003, 09:04 PM
i own a advantage and probably know about 10-15 advantage owners and i think that they are great and havnt heard much otherwise from my peers that own them. The biggest advantage you have with advantage boats is that you can pick and design your own custom exterior graphics, interior graphics, and motor size which gives you a one of a kind boat. the fiberglass build quality is awesome as well I'm not sure where you seen one with unfinished wood but I have never seen anything like that on all the advantage boats I've been around.

TPI
10-24-2003, 05:23 AM
I will always throw in a Howard comment if I get the chance, just because we(My Family) have been exposed to the Quality and Performance of Howard Custom Boats for so many years. The New Howard 25 and 28 Bullets are unbelievable to drive. The people at Howard are adding some awesome NEW standard features to them, you will have to call them for details. If you are price shopping, you will find they are expensive, but it is totally justifiable if you see the way one is put together, and you research the resale value. I Now am the proud owner of my second 25 BULLET!:D Its an 2004 and It looks unbelievable, I can hardly stand it! New graphics for 04, new features, and the same awesome performance and hull design. FYI, you can always chose and design your own colors, graphics, and interior layout. They are really good about that. You wont find a ton of them for sale because the people that buy them, love them. It was heart wrenching to sell my 03 Bullet, but it went to a great home, and I am sure the new 04 Bullet will also get some attention. Good luck!

boxscore
10-24-2003, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by expert4
The biggest advantage you have with advantage boats is that you can pick and design your own custom exterior graphics, interior graphics, and motor size which gives you a one of a kind boat. the fiberglass build quality is awesome as well I'm not sure where you seen one with unfinished wood but I have never seen anything like that on all the advantage boats I've been around.
How many West Coast builders do not let you pick your motor, interior and graphics?? None?.... So how does that make Advantage have an advantage? They do some things nicely. Except they cut corners. I'm talking about their battery boxes being the same ones they sell at WalMart. Seriously, I added a third battery to my boat and the box I purchased from WalMart was a perfect match. Good for me, eh? While I know many of us have or have had Hoss and Zeiman trailers, many of us will agree they are lower-end trailers. They don't even use stainless hardware! Why does Advantage use them? Because they don't cost very much compared to Extreme. Their margin is increased by every one of their efforts, and their product suffers. Oh, they won't cut a corner that obviously deters the look of the boat in the showroom, hence nice interiors and graphics. But once you start digging around a little, or once things start falling off the boat (thru-bolting is a science not yet discovered at Advantage) you realize there are better built boats to be had.

BALLSDEEP
10-24-2003, 06:51 AM
GT:
You are 1 lucky guy! I am glad to see that you sold the first one, I heard the second one is going to be pretty crazy, I am looking forward to seeing it! I would love to by the Howard hands down, I think they are killer boats, I just need to figure out how to pull the trigger and do it. I know that the craftsmanship and everything else on the boat is top notch, you proved that to me when you walked me thru the showroom. All of my friends have them and swear by them... They wouldn't own anything else.

roln 20s
10-24-2003, 07:01 AM
I just looked in the boat trader, and there are quite a few Advantages, but they donÂ’t seem to hold their resale value, why?
Advantages are nice boats, but there are very few out there that are the same level as Howard. As for resale value, one reason I would suspect is just pure volume. Howard makes less than 50 boats a year and advantage makes nearly 300-400 boats (Don't quote me on the number, but you get the idea), so the more that are available the less they are worth. Thats one great thing about Howard, there is so few available forsale that the prices for resale are very high. Watch how they build them, you will know why they are more expensive. Check out Dr Margaritas Howard- its awesome.
Just figure out what boat works best for yourself and family, and pull the trigger. I'm sure you will be happy with either one.
Good luck,
Roln 20s

boxscore
10-24-2003, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by roln 20s
Howard makes less than 50 boats a year and advantage makes nearly 300-400 boats (Don't quote me on the number, but you get the ideaGood luck,
Roln 20s
You hit it on the head Patrick. It all boils down to this.

Havasu_Dreamin
10-24-2003, 07:54 AM
If it comes down to a Howard or an Advantage and you can swing the price difference, go with the Howard, definitely! The Advantage 27 Victory is a nice boat I just believe that the Howards are better constructed boat.
Another boat to cconsider is the Hallett 270.

summerlove
10-24-2003, 07:55 AM
I have a friend who owns an advantage 27 victory and another who owns a howard 25 offshore.
The Howard is BY FAR the better boat. Quality of workmanship and quality of components is the biggest issue. Besides, I've never seen an Advantage color combo that I really like. Next time you're out, take a look and see for yourself...

Dr. Eagle
10-24-2003, 12:23 PM
I was looking at Advantage a few years ago. I saw them at the boat show and really looked at the rigging. Then I looked at Eliminators rigging and bought one of them. I like Advantage boats, and the rigging was good, just not great...small things that you had to look for. All things being equal if the choice was between Howard or Advantage...get the Howard.

cbudge
10-24-2003, 03:15 PM
trying to compare an Advantage to Howard is not even logcial, don't be fooled by pretty paint on an Avantage buy a Howard. I have owned both, and there simply is not any comparison.

rivercrazy
10-24-2003, 08:34 PM
Both are nice boats. The Advantage is much larger than the Howard. I would think that the 28 Howard bullet would be much more comparable in size. But the Advantage would will have more freeboard. Just depends on what kind of boat your looking for.
You just might take a real hard look at the 25 Shockwave Tremor as well. Its a really big 25 that has great overall performance and the ability to run is some pretty nasty water compared to other 25's:D

jbtrailerjim
10-25-2003, 10:30 AM
If I had to pick between the two I would definitely go with the Howard.
Another boat I would look at if your in the market for a boat in this size range; would be an Ultra 28 Stealth. When I was buying my Ultra (247) I saw one they were building. Awesome looking boat. Lot's of freeboard. I don't see many of them out on Havasu though. John West told me he has sold quite a few to people out on the east coast that run them in poker runs in the ocean. Just my opinion. I'm biased though. I think Ultra put's out a nice boat.

Dr. Eagle
10-25-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by jbtrailerjim
If I had to pick between the two I would definitely go with the Howard.
Another boat I would look at if your in the market for a boat in this size range; would be an Ultra 28 Stealth. When I was buying my Ultra (247) I saw one they were building. Awesome looking boat. Lot's of freeboard. I don't see many of them out on Havasu though. John West told me he has sold quite a few to people out on the east coast that run them in poker runs in the ocean. Just my opinion. I'm biased though. I think Ultra put's out a nice boat.
JB, when I got my eliminator 30 footer in 2000 the 28 stealth had just come out. I went to the San Diego boat show in January of 2000 and went to the Ultra display. I love Ultra's products, but the 28' stealth didn't do it for me. I liked having a cabin door and bulkhead between the below deck space and the cockpit, and the Ultra was wide open at least it was at the time. Ultra does make kick ass boats, I just found that one a wee bit short of what I was looking for...just my $.02...

rvrtoy
10-25-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
JB, when I got my eliminator 30 footer in 2000 the 28 stealth had just come out. I went to the San Diego boat show in January of 2000 and went to the Ultra display. I love Ultra's products, but the 28' stealth didn't do it for me. I liked having a cabin door and bulkhead between the below deck space and the cockpit, and the Ultra was wide open at least it was at the time. Ultra does make kick ass boats, I just found that one a wee bit short of what I was looking for...just my $.02...
The Ultra 28 is offered as a wide open design or as a closable mid-cabin. All of the Ultra 28's are built to order. Many have been sold to East Coast buyers who wish to have a closable mid-cabin. On the West coast most buyers prefer the wide open design. This is probably why you saw the wide open version at the San Diego boat show.
Just my opinion...Between the Howard and the Advantage...The Howard is a better built boat. A bit pricey, but a better boat non-the-less.;)

fourspeednup
10-25-2003, 03:46 PM
One major problem with a Howard. Once you get one, all other boats are just lame. Do to recent $$$ issues, my uncle was "forced" to buy an ultra instead of his usual howard (owned 5 in 6 years). :rolleyes:

Dr. Eagle
10-25-2003, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by rvrtoy
The Ultra 28 is offered as a wide open design or as a closable mid-cabin. All of the Ultra 28's are built to order. Many have been sold to East Coast buyers who wish to have a closable mid-cabin. On the West coast most buyers prefer the wide open design. This is probably why you saw the wide open version at the San Diego boat show.
Just my opinion...Between the Howard and the Advantage...The Howard is a better built boat. A bit pricey, but a better boat non-the-less.;)
Well like I said it was a brand new boat at the time. The guys at the Ultra booth were not too knowledgable about the options available on it...I did ask them. It was the very first one out of the mold though, so perhaps John got enough people asking for the full cabin/bulkhead construction to modify the tooling for it. Maybe he planned it all along and Dude and other Dude in the booth were just not aware.
Regardless, Ultra makes a great boat...hell I have one!

Craig
10-25-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by boxscore
The Howard is likely the way to go for build quality
and resale value.
I've owned two Advantages, a PartyCat and a Citation.
While the hull seems to be good, they really skimp in
other areas., i.e. $5 plastic battery boxes, $35 batteries,
they do not use 100% stainless fasteners,
fugly bimini hardware, cheap switches,
and beedee guages that fail more often than
any other gauge I've ever seen. Their upholstery is top
notch and they'll let you go wild on graphics w/o any
upcharges. Probably why you see so many silly
gels on their rigs. They'll let you do whatever you
want w/o saying a thing.
While I'd have to admit their rigging is not on par with DCB, when I priced out an Eliminator, they wanted to charge me for graphics other then some standard fare stuff, same with Nordic. Maybe that's changed in 6 years.
My battery boxes are Gils, never seen them at Walmart. Never had a gauge fail. A lot of builders who have their logo on a gauge use Beedees. They gave me a drawing of the boat and said come up with what you want for interior, exterior, gauge bezels and even exhaust exit locations. I gave them a drawing and they made a few small suggestions to my design, which I went with. Performance, my 22 cat ran neck and neck to a friends 22 Daytona. Just my experiences, not necessarily the way things always are. I know the 27 Victory is not up to speed with some others.
Craig

Squirtin Thunder
10-25-2003, 07:51 PM
This is my view; How in tthe world do you compare fine wine to cheap ass beer you sould have bought at CostCo. The very best to well ya know. I payed Disadvantage a visit this summer after the Vegas to Reno race and I was not inpressed at all, when you have a boat on display it sould be perfect. I can not say that in the first 5min. I did not find any falts. The boats to the novice boater are nice, but to someone that has been around quality I was not ready for the s@^% that I saw. The Howard is to me like a Schiada or a Donzi, The best mass produced boat I have seen. Now my uncle has the Disadvantage 22' with the Scorpion and I am not impressed at all. I would really like to have a 21'-26' Howard with a blown BBF 8/71 572ci w/c6 v-drive, that would be COOL!!!
Again thats just my view.
Oh Ya the salesman at Disadvantage was a D#%^ H*^d !!!

mtndewdrops
10-29-2003, 08:56 PM
I was not that impressed with the Advantage Boats for the price. I also thought that there salesmen were arrogant. I sure see alot of them out on the lake though.

Three Days Only
10-31-2003, 09:49 AM
If your choices are Advantage or Howard, ride in both of them, all you questions will be answered instantly. Power for Power, Boat to Boat, The Howard will out perform the Advantage. If you want a V bottom that cuts through the water and feels safe at all speeds up too and above 100mph, The Howard is the one!!!! Im in no way trying to piss off any Advantage owners out there, they are nice looking boats and there are plenty of them on the water, I would just feel safer in the Howard.
My .02

Ziggy
10-31-2003, 04:13 PM
My only experience was during the shopping mode-we looked but were less than impressed overall, saleman was cocky but my wife did like the multitude of colors she's seen on them. My understanding is that the deck style doesn't really pack air well thusly causing it to bow steer more so than others.
Then again, as this maker is basically being bashed here so does the maker that I ended up purchasing(my 2nd from them BTW). Point being that if you feel its right for you then make your choice accordingly.

TPI
10-31-2003, 09:52 PM
Speaking for the Howard side: I think its great that they have tested their boats well over 100 mph, but the fact is: the average Performance boater buys the Howard boat and drops in 400-600 horsepower. They then have the option of adding more power later, or just leaving the boat the way that it is. The 25 runs over 70 mph with a 496HO, and handles very well. Speed, Turning, Overall handling, its a complete package. The testing is great to know, and adds confidence to the buyer as to what their boat is capable of. I know for a fact that the fastest Howard boats built(Including my 25) did not have any "special" top secret features, such as: a high X Dimension or a light lay up. They are everyday boats with a lot of power, a strong drive, and a lab prop. Thats it. The guys at Howard will tell you exactly what your new boat is capable of with your power of choice. I have become very familiar with Howard Custom Boats and their personnel over the last 10 years and I will always have good things to say about their operation. I dont think a day goes by when I dont look forward to driving my 25 Bullet again.

Faster Daddy
11-03-2003, 01:21 AM
It comes down to wether you are going to buy the boat you want, or the boat you can afford. :confused:

roln 20s
11-03-2003, 08:01 AM
FasterDaddy-
Post some pics of your new Lavey completed. It took great from the little pic I can see.
Oh yeah, good point too- buy what you want or what you can afford. I like that motto.
Roln 20s

Faster Daddy
11-03-2003, 11:50 PM
Roln 20s
I'm trying to get the photos taken at the Poker Run. Boat looks even better with a couple of models aboard!

roln 20s
11-04-2003, 12:35 PM
Faster-
I look forward to those pics, I have yet to see a boat with models on it that I didn't like :D
Roln 20s