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View Full Version : Turn Key or Fixer Upper?



CAHotRodBoy
11-02-2003, 08:25 PM
I'm getting something bigger, 28 to 32 footer. Lots of stuff for sale and am debating to go big $, turn key or cheap $ and do some work. Looking at a 31 Excalibur with (new) twin SBC, TRS, just neeeds interior work and updating for $12K or 28 Cig with same drive train, new interior, guages, etc for about $40K. There is also a bunch of stuff out there for $50K to $60+k, Baja's, Hustlers, Formula's, etc.
Any opinions?

Akamatsu
11-03-2003, 09:02 PM
I am sure you will get many varying opinions. The things that you really need to look at/decide: What kind of free time do you have? If you have a decent amount of free time, then you may consider the fixer upper. There is nothing more gratifying than finishing a project and at the same time saving some money.
However, if your free time is sparse, you may want to opt for the complete turn-key boat. There is always plenty of work to be done on a boat that is cherry. Be it the little things like washing/waxing, engine/drive maintenance(X2), etc. You get the idea.
When you say interior work, how much work are we talking? Re-upholstering is not too bad, and will be something you will more than likely sub out.
I was recently in a similar situation as you, with a chance to get a great deal on a fixer upper, or spend the extra cash and get something that was ready to roll. I ended up going through the pros and cons, and although the thought of saving money was good, I ended up going for the turn key boat. I can say that I am happy I did. Though I am sure it would have been fun restoring the other, I got to spend the summer on the water instead of in the garage.
I am sure you will end up happy with either. Sounds like the 12K with rebuilt engines could be a great deal. Is it currently driveable? Maybe you could take both boats out on test drives and see how you like each. If the fixer upper is close, it would probably worth the time/money to get it ship-shape.
I realise I am kind of talking in circles, which is more likely what you are doing now too.. Sorry.. I feel your pain.. :) But it is a good pain at least:D .
Akamatsu

CAHotRodBoy
11-03-2003, 09:22 PM
Thanks, Ak,
The 31 Excalibur is in Michingan. It does run with fairly new motors, rebuilt drives, etc. It really seams like a very good deal. Just needs updating of dash (new panel with Gaffrigs) and cabin upholstry. Nothing major. Runs in low 60's now. Most of the work would be cosmetic (fancy paint, powder coating, etc) and maybe small blowers (Prochargers or 671s) to get more power. Like I said, I'd like to hit mid 70's. It is a heavy boat (8000+) and should make the run to Catalina in all but the heaviest seas. I really want to make the SCOPE Catalina Poker Run next year and this boat could do it with more power.
On the other hand, newer, turn key would be nice too. I almost got a 2001 29 Outlaw ready to go but had to back out of the deal.
there are many others out there and I'm not in a hurry so I'll just look around. It sure is fun shopping!
What do you have Ak?

Akamatsu
11-03-2003, 10:01 PM
a used 27' Advantage Victory at the beginning of the year. I have used it all summer and have been very happy with it. It was definately more boat than I had planned on buying, but I have ZERO complaints so far. I did not buy it with the intention of taking it in the big blue. But after seeing the pictures of other people going, I have developed a serious desire to take it out in the ocean. I tend to be overly cautious, so I plan on getting a VHF radio at the minimum before going out. What boat do you currently have?

CAHotRodBoy
11-04-2003, 06:44 AM
I have a 2003 Baja Outlaw 20. For a small boat it handles the ocean pretty well. I've had it going about 60 in 2 to 3's and she flys fine. It does list to port slightly when flying and trims tabs would help. I have had it out in 4 to 5 chop before. Trying to keep up with a 38 Scarrab and 40 Hallet. Stuffed it once coming out of Ventura Harbor with big cruisers coming in. Didn't have enough speed up, being overly cautious! Slammed the throttle and got through it.
The last trip to Catalina was very flat and I could have done it with my boat with no problems. I do have hand held VHF and GPS and wouldn't recommend going out without them unless you are just hanging close to shore. I run out of Channel Islands in Oxnard to Ventura. I've done this by myself with no other boats. Once you run in the big blue you will get hooked. Lakes bore my now.
I was going to go the 26 to 28, single power route but now am thinking twin power 28 to 31. The bigger boats just ride so much nicer. Mine is pretty hard when the water gets big with not enough freeboard.

DEEZ NUTTS
11-04-2003, 03:48 PM
I just picked up a Formula 311 a couple weeks ago. Tons of cabin space and amenities. Only have about 10 min at the wheel for test drive, but heading to Powell this weekend. My first "big" boat with twins and I'm shure there is a learning curve. Will post how it was next week.

CAHotRodBoy
11-04-2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by DEEZ NUTTS
I just picked up a Formula 311 a couple weeks ago. Tons of cabin space and amenities. Only have about 10 min at the wheel for test drive, but heading to Powell this weekend. My first "big" boat with twins and I'm shure there is a learning curve. Will post how it was next week.
Congrats! :D
I've been looking at a couple of those too. They are more $ but as you said, nice amenities (a/c, etc). I'd really like to hear how you like it.

paradigm shift
11-08-2003, 02:28 PM
The $$$$ amount you plan to spend usually decides. I would buy the most boat I could for that money and go from there. Fixer uppers can be a bottom less pit if you are not careful. They can also be one of the most rewarding expeirance and times to be had. With that said if was me I would buy a boat you can use every day. Very good time to be shopping as there are a lot of boats for sale. Take your time. Good luck!! :)
I read this again and thought it may come off as a little negative and that is not what I meant. I enjoy working on the boat don't get me wrong but I enjoy my lake - on the water time more is all. Just depends on how much of a fixer upper it is I guess. I like to turn the wrenches but as for body-fiberglass and paint work it is not my thing.

sillywilly
11-10-2003, 06:47 PM
First of all there is no way to buy a boat but used. On the other hand, it is my opinion that you should buy rite! By the best possible boat for what you want to do with the best possible equipment with the lowest hours. Assuming your credit is good interest rates on used boats are rock bottom and loans are easy to get. I may sell my 33 AVS Scarab. It is a 1999 with twin 500 hp efi's. Stellings Stand off boxes & Bravo one performance drives. Dual ram Latham steering & K-Planes. This boat is an 85 mph all day long. With the rite conditions it should hit 90. Only about 275 hrs. total on the boat. Boat rides on a tripple axle Myco with drive gate and a scooter rack. Boat has full cover and cockpit cover. GPS, XM radio, electric bolsters, powdercoated grabrails throughout, etc. The boat is in pristine condition! New with this equipment the boat would sell for about 250k. I will let go for 125k. Probablly more than you want to spend, but looking back it was a hell of a lot more than I wanted to spend. I did it however and never once regreted it. I know have the wantmores. I WANT MORE! Can you believe that near 1000 hp and 33 feet isn't enough? Well, go ahead and buy this boat. Run it for two seasons, and try to tell me you don't want more. For what it is worth, the Scarab is a phenominal riding boat. When I first set out looking for a boat I was looking at river boats. Specifically Nordics. Yes Nordic is a really good looking boat and for the most part a good boat. It is not however a seriouse ocean boat. For that mater there are few if any west coast manufacturers who build a boat like the Scarab. The only one I would consider is the Lavey. Very well made! Otherwise for the money Scarab is awesome. If money is no issue buy a Cig or outerlimits, or Nortech. Ciggarette is somewhere in my future. Gotta off the Scarab first. If you are not interested in spending as much as I am asking look around. There are several on the market. you will not go wrong with a name like Scarab. Also, don't let these west coast manufacturers poo-poo the likes of Scarab, Fountain, Baja, etc. They will call them "Production boats". Like I always told them when they would start down that path, " you can call it what you like but the bottom line is it is an APBA winning boat. Many times over". best of luck

CAHotRodBoy
11-10-2003, 08:36 PM
Thanks SillyWilly,
Sounds like an awsome boat but a little over my $$ range. My buddy has a 35 Cafe Racer with new 500's for $85K (he's upgrading to a Tiger!). Beautiful boat and runs great. We took it to Catalina the other day. It's still a tad over what I want to spend and a little big for my truck. I'm thinking 28 to 31/32 foot and $60K. You're right, there is a unch of stuff out there especially on OSO. I'll probably spend more $ and get something more turn key. I already have enough other projects to work on! There are a couple 28 Cigs that I like. I wish the 28s had more freeboard. I'd really like to find a cheap Mystique but haven't seen any. I was looking at a 29 Outlaw too. I'm sure I'll find something before spring.
As far as west coast builders vs "production" builders, I don't believe most of them (Eliminator, Advantage, Ultra, Commander, etc) make real ocean boats. I think they are all focused on lakes unless you get into the 35+ range. Even then I think the Baja, Checkmate, PQ, Formula, Sonic, Sunsation, etc are more big water boats. Of course you also have the Cigs, Apache, NorTechs, Skater, Fountains, etc although most of those are probably out of my $ range (for now).

DEEZ NUTTS
11-11-2003, 03:40 PM
CAHotRod, My wife and I spent our first weekend on our Formula and are stoked with it. We always camp for the weekend on Lake Powell and what a difference having room makes. I cant really give much of a performance report as the water was glass flat all weekend, and I'm still getting used to what the boat wants. Trim, tabs, ect. I am totally suprised with the speed and plane time. I did not think the heavy huge pig would jump up and go but she does. Speed picked up slightly when half the 140gals of fuel was used. Most I could muster was about 4700 rpm or so with 23p props showing 65-66mph on the speedo at 3600 feet elevation. Forgot gps so dont know how much that speedo is giving me as a bonus. Twins around the dock are awesome. From my experience I would buy another Formula in a second. The OSO site had a thread listing the difference in the models a while back if you have not seen it. Another plus with the 311 is the room in the engine compartment. Tons of it. You can stand in there or lay down in front of the engines to work on them without too much trouble. I can winterize both motors faster than in my previous single motor boat purely by ease of access. Good Luck.

CAHotRodBoy
11-11-2003, 08:31 PM
Wow, Deez,
Sounds pretty nice. One of the 311's on OSO just sold. There are still a few others out there. I really like the idea of A/C on the boat, especially when at the river!
Do you know much that boat weighs? Sounds like the performance is pretty good too. Glad you're happy with it!

DEEZ NUTTS
11-11-2003, 08:43 PM
CA, it does have a refrigerator that will run off the batts, but no A/C. It does have shore power that you could plug a unit in and blow through one of the hatches but only at the dock. I dont have one. The OSO guys said they are around 11,000 with the trailer and fuel. The Powerstroke knows its there.