DANGER .... People putting MEGA power behind BRAVO drives beware!

[GLWBEAR]

I'M WRITING THIS NOT TO PISS ANYONE OFF. IT'S JUST THE TRUTH. READ IT AND BE INFORMED AND BE CAREFUL AND SAFE! GOOD BOATING TO ALL!
I've seen too many many friends go thru Bravo drives like POPCORN trying to go fast with MEGA horsepower motors. All they do is pay the same money in the long run as I did for #-6 drives. I didn't like having to pay for the #-6 drives either. But, it was either that or my wife saw a boat flip when a drive blew and she said no #-6's NO BOAT! Be VERY VERY careful as this decision could KILL you!
DON'T GET ME WRONG, the Mercury Bravo drive IS a great drive system and I've owned over six. The new high performance stuff is even greater. But its NOT for over 700 hp motors. Mercury says not over 525 hp. They must know best!
The people who buy Bravos for MEGA horsepower will experience ruined vacations, many disappointed and ruined weekends and not too mention our wives or girlfriends getting ROYALLY pissed off and not wanting anything further to do with the Boating scene. One buddy has a 2003 CAT and has gone through 8 drives and his boating was over when he blew a drive at about 65 mph and it through his son out of the boat. His wife said he either sold the boat or she was gone! The boat was sold very FAST!
Now, lets cover the DANGER ISSUE! Have you ever seen what happens to a CAT that has blown a drive at high speed?? It either barrel rolls or makes a very fast left or right turn that you have NO CONTROL in preventing or stopping. If your not thrown from the boat or killed your very lucky. Think of dual drives as a Tank with two tracks. Now we all know what happens to a tank when you stop one of the Tracks.......it turns left or right very fast. The same is what happens to a CAT with dual outdrives.
Insurance is another area of concern. You guys better be honest and tell your insurance carrier the horspepower and the REAL top speed of the boat. My wife is an insurance agent and she tells me if you lie on the speed or horsepower you have ZERO insurance and any claims will be denied and not covered. All your premiums you paid were paid in vain and your SCREWED! I know too many guys who got their MEGA Horsepower 120 mph+ boat covered as a family runabout with their HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE. They have zero insurance as it is fraud and when the adjuster inspects the boat after a accident you will be denied any claims.
Be careful and safe and be aware.
GLWBEAR
OVER 45 YEARS OF BOATING experience
Retired Mercury Marine dealer
Lake "X" experienced
2003 DCB Mach 34 w/ #-6 drives
2000 Spectre 30
1997 28 Skater
1994 Elimnator 24 Daytona
1988 45 ft Bayliner
1986 28 ft Sleekcraft
1985 21ft Eliminator
Plus tons of other boats

[framer1]

shouldn't a xr drive hold up to 800 hp without to many problems.

[Sandbar Mike]

Well Said, :)

[79 HUSTLER]

I have a question, how does a high horse motor with a single drive react at high speed (100+) when the drive lets go. I know every situation is different, just curious if it usually pitches you sideways as well or is it just with twins. Your post is dead on. There is no price for saftey. And I'm sure many people have destroyed enough bravo drives to purchase a few #6's.Thanks, KELLY

[missboatnam1]

we were going about 95mph when ours let go,the rpm spiked and the boat just came to a stop.almost like your were hauling ass and shut off the key.it was a gear on our boat.

[79 HUSTLER]

That sounds better to me, always a little nervous in a twin with huge power running fast, or running beside them. KELLY

[Charley]

On my old boat 26' single engine cat, I had my ignition box let go at around 100 mph going thru Topock Gorge(those walls are scary)...It just slowed to a stop and the 3 Forces I was racing finally went by me :D ... (couldn't resist) I would agree with a Twin the Reaction might be different but with a single engine application this will be what you could expect almost everytime.

[GLWBEAR]

Most of you who have had failures have had a single drive! There usually isn't a problem as the boat will just settle down in the water and stop. That's if you were going STRAIGHT. If your in a turn you could spin out or worse.
IT'S THE DUAL ENGINE boats where the danger is! Just like I said in the original post. You can do a 100 MPH and when your drive locks up you make a very fast right or left turn and trouble starts!
The member who asked if BRAVO drives were rated to 800 hp. The answer is NO! There is a CAT owner who posts on this fourm that has had several BRAVO Failures with 800 hp motors!
As I said before, BRAVO OWNERS, BEWARE OF HIGH HORSEPOWER DUAL MOTORS ON CATS , and even "V" hulls AS IT CAN KILL YOU!
If you want to go fast and need 100 mph+ speeds, get with the program and buy #-6 drives and stop risking others and yourself and family
Our insurance rates are going up like a ROCKET SHIP. Pretty soon we might find ourselves with boats that you cannot buy INSURANCE for at any PRICE! I ask you how many of us are foolish enough to run your boat without any insurance??? Not many I HOPE!
I'm paying over $8,000 a year in insurance in Boat & Tow vehicle insurance and that's with no accidents, no claims, no problems. If insurance goes up any more we're selling the boat and will finding another hobby. I'm not about to pay $800 to $1,000 a month to go fast for about 30+ days a year!
Anyone feeling the same? Let me know.
GLWB EAR
gwilliams@interphasepi.com

[Tom Slick]

This is an excellent topic of discusion. First off I would like to state my experience with this subject.
I have seen many twin engine cats hook hard to the right or left when there is a motor or drive train failure at speed. I have even seen some race boats flip.
In my personal experience I have had a drive on my Spectre 30 pop out of gear at 100+mph and the boat continued on perfectly straight. I actually couldn't believe it, but it did go straight.
In my HTM I had a coil bracket brake, thus causing the to coil drop killing the motor at about 80-90mph and again the boat just quit and slowed to a stop.
It does make complete sense for a twin engine cat to hook at speed when one side lets go and it should turn in the direction in which you are turning the prop on the motor that is still pulling the boat forward. I guess maybe my deal was just a flouk, but I'm not planning on testing this very soon either.
Rumor has it that when the boys from HTM bit it, it was possible that a motor locked up, detinated, drive broke or possibly a tie bar broke. It seems that any one of those mechanical failures could cause the tragic accident that those guys had.
As for the insurance BS, I think it is a racket by a certain insurance company that is trying to monopolize the boat insurance business. I have heard several rumors that there is 1 or 2 marine insurance companies out there that are throwing all of us boaters under the bus, by telling our regular insurance companies a bunch of BS, thus our companies are dropping us like flies and forcing us to have to go to these high price marine companies. The big baller boat guys out there can afford the high prices, so they just pay it, but for the weekend warriors it is going to become very difficult to justify the high prices.

[dorC]

I've said the same thing many a time. There really is a reason why Mercury makes the speedmaster series. Put a #6, or even a #3-5 next to the bravo. The size difference is there for a reason! You can build up the drive all you want, but you are still hanging it on a stock gimble? What's up with that?

[bigq]

What price is the number 6 over the bravo, 10k 20k?

[Infomaniac]

Must have watched the video I posted.
Point well taken.

[Sandbar Mike]

Originally posted by Charley
On my old boat 26' single engine cat, I had my ignition box let go at around 100 mph going thru Topock Gorge(those walls are scary)...It just slowed to a stop and the 3 Forces I was racing finally went by me :D ... (couldn't resist) I would agree with a Twin the Reaction might be different but with a single engine application this will be what you could expect almost everytime.
dog
:D
We'll take a win any way we can
Charley glad to see your still lurking.

[79 HUSTLER]

Charlie, I'll be the first to say I have never lost a race to a DCB:D but then again I've always been smart enough to not even try. Your boat is awsome by the way. I saw you a few months ago when you were launching at park Moabi. I was in a orange and grey 29 force sitting in the water as you were launching. Your boat sounded sweet and looked great. KELLY

[Charley]

SBM...Yep I'm peaking my head back in lately...sorta got a little frustrated with the direction the board seemed to be taking, but I never gave up... seems like things have taken a turn for the better so I'm back ;)
kelly(79 hustler) thanks for the kind words...most people hear my boat with those gatlin mufflers and my flat hatch and wanna race hehehe...I actually remember that day and your boat... your ride is very sweet too! (for the record)I'm not ragging on Force they make a great boat, just playin;)

[Rock-it man]

I lost a drive at 110 in my datona 26 and it stayed straight so when I got the new imco 4x4 drive I shut it down at speed up to 125 to see what would happen and also at lower speeds in turns so I would know how it would react and it stayed straight each time and did not spin out ,it was in 1 foot chop IM a single eng and have run 137.1 mph at Havasu and so far the boat felt very stable will be up to 145 next spring ,os course these arre short speed runs under good conditions with a safety boat there. I would think that in a dual eng boat with the drives tied togeather and full HYD steering there should not be to many problems but I have not driven a two eng cat yet but am thinking about buying one in 2005. It takes a lot of boat time at high speed to feel comfortable and in my opinion you should not be going that fast with family or friends in the boat anyway,if you want to go fast do it right !!! There should be a school somewhere some time on driving cats at high speed I know I would take it as you can never know too much .Just adding my two cents. ROCKIT MAN

[Infomaniac]

I don't think drives tied together or hydraulic steering has anything to do with it.
If you are running full blast and have 1000 HP turning the left prop and the right prop stopped it is going to turn hard.

[jackpunx]

Originally posted by Rock-it man
I lost a drive at 110 in my datona 26 and it stayed straight so when I got the new imco 4x4 drive I shut it down at speed up to 125 to see what would happen and also at lower speeds in turns so I would know how it would react and it stayed straight each time and did not spin out ,it was in 1 foot chop IM a single eng and have run 137.1 mph at Havasu and so far the boat felt very stable will be up to 145 next spring ,os course these arre short speed runs under good conditions with a safety boat there. I would think that in a dual eng boat with the drives tied togeather and full HYD steering there should not be to many problems but I have not driven a two eng cat yet but am thinking about buying one in 2005. It takes a lot of boat time at high speed to feel comfortable and in my opinion you should not be going that fast with family or friends in the boat anyway,if you want to go fast do it right !!! There should be a school somewhere some time on driving cats at high speed I know I would take it as you can never know too much .Just adding my two cents. ROCKIT MAN
I'll go to that school.. who is giving the class.. and can we take your boat?

[Rock-it man]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Infomaniac
I don't think drives tied together or hydraulic steering has anything to do with it.
If you are running full blast and have 1000 HP turning the left prop and the right prop stopped it is going to turn hard. [/
QUOTE]
Dah !!!!! I knew that ----What was I thinking !!!!Ya know the minds the first ta go !!!! ROCKIT MAN
*** Im loosing my mind cause it too cold to go boating up here !!!!

[33daytona]

I have broken 10 drives on my 33 daytona everyone at 100+ mph
before switching to xz drives i have never had the boat even try to turn
I think that the full hydralic steering really helps i wouldn't run any fast boat without it
I also have a friend that has done the same and he is putting 970 hp to his xz drives with no failures in two years

[Whipple Charged]

I've had one of my motors in my 28' Daytona shut off at 140, 135, 120 a few times and it never once did anything but slow down. Most of the time, it took me a few moments to even figure what had happen. Now if the drive "seizes" and the prop stops rotating, it would be a world of trouble because the prop works as a brake or rutter. If the drive breaks then typically the prop will still rotate in the water.
The #6 or wisemen, arneson, etc. are all great options, but are very expensive and are still not indestrcuctible. Were talking nearly $35,000 up front where you can purchase at least 5 XR drives over 2 or 3 years to equal the 6 drive. They also bring up other problems, you must run a transmission which takes room in the boat, can transfer weight too far forward (only on some boats), has more drag which can slow the boat, takes more power to operate which decreases speed, weighs more which could scrub speed, etc. No question it's safer, just pointing out that it's more than just money.
If I had the money for the 6, then I would hopefully have the money to get a MTI or Skater as well so, maybe someday? Superchargers anybody? :D
Thanks,
Dustin

[jackpunx]

does anyone have any experience with the 4x4 drives?

[roln 20s]

does anyone have any experience with the 4x4 drives?
Check with CBudge- he has one on his quad rotor whipple 28 Howard Bullet. I haven't heard anything bad about it, but he would definately know. I believe his was one of the first ones to the public.
Roln 20s

[dorC]

And nothing is what happened to HTM when they blew their drive. :rolleyes: Maybe you guys are just lucky. Or maybe they were just unlucky. Call it as you see fit.

[Jrocket]

Originally posted by Charley
It just slowed to a stop and the 3 Forces I was racing finally went by me
And then got towed back in by one of those FORCES!!!!!!:D
I couldnt resist either!

[33daytona]

do you know for sure that the drive locked up on the htm? i have only heard rumors on that
i had one lock up it even blew the cap off the drive

[Havasu Cig]

In my single I/O DCB 26 I blew a couple of motors at over 100 mph and the boat never did anything but slow down and continue straight.
I did have a problem with the steering though which caused the boat to hook at about 70 mph, almost ejecting the rear seat passenger, but that is another story.
In my dual O/B DCB 26 I blew several gear cases while running an various speeds in the 70-105 mph range, and again the boat tracked straight.
Once when I lost a gear case I actually kept the boat on plane with the remaining motor and drove it back to the ramp (about 10 miles) and it tracked straight the entire time. Just my experience.

[Havasu Cig]

Well I broke a drive this past weekend and it locked up on me at 80 mph. The boat continued to track straight, but you could feel the drag from the stopped prop, and when I looked back it was shooting a huge rooster tail into the air.
On a cat at higher speed it might have been a little different:confused:

[Charley]

Hey Chris sorry to hear that... Ironically I grenaded my starboard drive this weekend too! when I say Grenade it's no Joke, upper U joint Broke and blew the housing completely off the drive....somewhere at the bottom of havasu, scary!:(

[mbrown2]

Cig and Charley, sorry to hear about your drive issues, just glad no further damage happened...
Charley, what part of the housing completely blew off into the water? Did it take on any water?

[blown23vee]

What the hell is this, the quarter of drive doom?? You guys have
me giving 2nd thoughts to putting mine back on...Larry just barely
finished building it again!! Aaaahhh!!
:confused: :D

[Havasu Cig]

Charley,
Sorry to hear about yours as well bro...The top cap on our's broke into several pieces, and the drive is completely locked up. The boat is going to Teague this morning. I think a couple of his billet top caps might have to go on the drives now.
You guys going out for the parade?

[Jrocket]

That sucks big time.Sounds like the exact thing that racing Rascal did at the DCB photo shoot.His drive was being held up by the steering only from what I gathered.Sucks for sure.

[Charley]

Well I'm going to fight for warranty eval on this one... rust residue was all through out the U joint area underneath the boot. I'll try to post some pics after we get the film developed, It's F-ing scary lookin! by the way accellerating and at 65 mph she blew and she just came to a stop

[Charley]

Originally posted by Havasu Cig
You guys going out for the parade?
well.. If everything goes as planned we will.. I have a huge job loading in on Friday @ 3am.. If all is in shape as planned we will leave late friday, sleep 1/2 saturday and make the parade sat night. We are gonna try to drag someof our river neighbors with us and hook up with Chuck and Patricia's Posse...let's see if we can get it together and have a party!;)