Battery Myths?

[Outnumbered]

My father-in-law who is an old time boater and rigger says that storing your deep-cycle boat batteries on the concrete slab will drain them. I don't see the logic but who knows? Myth or fact?
My dad keeps new Duracells in the fridge, says they last longer. Again, I don't see the logic. Myth or fact?
OL

[svlperry]

fact on the boat battery

[Hotcrusader76]

Chilling the batteries slows the chemical reaction down. This is why they tend to last longer.

[Outnumbered]

SVL, why does the concrete drain the battery? There is nothing touching the terminals.
OL

[rrrr]

Back in the day, battery cases were made of a rubber compound that was conductive. Batteries lost charge just by sitting on a concrete floor.
Your "new age" battery has a nonconductive case, prolly polypropylene. It can sit on concrete until hell freezes over, or until the battery is dead from the .04% per day discharge rate that milks it dry.
Keeping alkaline batteries in the fridge is an OK idea, but it doesn't make that big of difference.

[Outnumbered]

Originally posted by rrrr
Back in the day, battery cases were made of a rubber compound that was conductive. Batteries lost charge just by sitting on a concrete floor.
Your "new age" battery has a nonconductive case, prolly polypropylene. It can sit on concrete until hell freezes over, or until the battery is dead from the .04% per day discharge rate that milks it dry.
Keeping alkaline batteries in the fridge is an OK idea, but it doesn't make that big of difference.
Now that makes sense.
Thanks
OL

[Rexone]

It is a myth by today's battery mfg standards.
Here's some info I copied off another tech forum...
-----------------------------------
Before and during WW2 battery manufacturers made the battery cases out of a
hard rubber material called ebonite. After the Japanese took over the
rubber plantations of southeast asia and the Pacific islands, rubber came in
short supply. In order to stretch their limited supply, the battery
manufacturers started mixing small bits of flax and cotton in with the
ebonite to act as a filler and conserve the rubber. These impregnated
fibers were slightly conductive electrically. When a battery was left on
concrete, the change in temp from night to day, and the batteries' high
thermal mass would cause condensation under the battery, wicking up from the
concrete. The conductive fibers in the cells would cause a slight short
circuit between the cells in the battery, draining it. This was compounded
by the fact that the batteries were not built as well as today's batteries,
and they tended to self discharge faster anyway. The combination of self
discharge and short circuits between the cells made the battery go dead very
quickly. Thus, a battery stored for several weeks or months on a concrete
floor would be completely dead, and ruined because of the resulting
sulfation. After WW2, all the battery manufacturers converted to plastic
cases, and the problem went away, forever, however the myth hasn't.
I have to attribute this information to Foster Faerman at Tideland Signal,
who knows more about lead acid batteries than anyone else I know. His
father used to own a small battery manufacturing plant, and he literally
grew up in the battery business. When I asked him about the myth many years
ago, he reeled off the explanation quickly and succinctly, and it makes
perfect sense to me.
-------------------------------
I've kept them on concrete forever and never had a problem beyond the normal idle discharge rate. However... I recently learned that OSHA does not want them on the floor so now we have all our old batteries once again off the floor. Something about leakage and seepage through the concrete if the case were to crack... whatever. Easier to put them on a 2x4 than argue with them about it.

[mmered8299]

Its true about that concrete thing. Also if you sit alot on Concrete you'll get hemorrhoids!!:D :D :D

[GlastronGuy]

Originally posted by mmered8299
Its true about that concrete thing. Also if you sit alot on Concrete you'll get hemorrhoids!!:D :D :D
Did you read the post above yours?

[Jbb]

Originally posted by Rexone
It is a myth by today's battery mfg standards.
Here's some info I copied off another tech forum...
-----------------------------------
Before and during WW2 battery manufacturers made the battery cases out of a
hard rubber material called ebonite. After the Japanese took over the
rubber plantations of southeast asia and the Pacific islands, rubber came in
short supply. In order to stretch their limited supply, the battery
manufacturers started mixing small bits of flax and cotton in with the
ebonite to act as a filler and conserve the rubber. These impregnated
fibers were slightly conductive electrically. When a battery was left on
concrete, the change in temp from night to day, and the batteries' high
thermal mass would cause condensation under the battery, wicking up from the
concrete. The conductive fibers in the cells would cause a slight short
circuit between the cells in the battery, draining it. This was compounded
by the fact that the batteries were not built as well as today's batteries,
and they tended to self discharge faster anyway. The combination of self
discharge and short circuits between the cells made the battery go dead very
quickly. Thus, a battery stored for several weeks or months on a concrete
floor would be completely dead, and ruined because of the resulting
sulfation. After WW2, all the battery manufacturers converted to plastic
cases, and the problem went away, forever, however the myth hasn't.
I have to attribute this information to Foster Faerman at Tideland Signal,
who knows more about lead acid batteries than anyone else I know. His
father used to own a small battery manufacturing plant, and he literally
grew up in the battery business. When I asked him about the myth many years
ago, he reeled off the explanation quickly and succinctly, and it makes
perfect sense to me.
-------------------------------
I've kept them on concrete forever and never had a problem beyond the normal idle discharge rate. However... I recently learned that OSHA does not want them on the floor so now we have all our old batteries once again off the floor. Something about leakage and seepage through the concrete if the case were to crack... whatever. Easier to put them on a 2x4 than argue with them about it.
2x4.....Or are you stacking them on the new catalogs....?:D

[comin' unscrewed]

Originally posted by mmered8299
Its true about that concrete thing. Also if you sit alot on Concrete you'll get hemorrhoids!!:D :D :D
Yeah and if you lie on the concrete floor to work under a car it'll suck the heat out of your body and you'll catch a cold. :wink:

[gnarley]

The strange thing is that when I have left my batteries on the cement floor for several weeks or months & picked them up they had etched a pattern in the cement! Something is still going on & I don't know what it is so I try to place them on wood.

[Rexone]

I learned this from a college auto shop teacher and just thought I'd pass it on as long as we were all laying around on the concrete anyway watching out batteries go dead.
DIRT... on a battery case is a conductor and will cause battery discharge. The dirtier the more discharge rate. Get you digital volt meter out and go out to you car that has a less than emaculate battery. Put one lead on a battery terminal and put the other on the battery case top in a dirty area. Move it around. You will see varying degrees of voltage right off the case. In effect a very low amperage load draining your battery.
Bottom line is this will discharge your battery and puts a constant drain on it. Keep em clean.

[LakesOnly]

I remember that "concrete" issue from years ago. No longer the case; Rexone cover it perfectly.
Also, the longer a lead/acid battery remains in a state of discharge, the more of a chemical reaction takes place that is irreversable; the sufuric acid (H2SO4) reacts with the lead (Pb) and we ultimately end up with lead sulfate (PB02) and--shit, my chemistry is rusty--peroxide (H202)? I forget...but you get the idea...the battery will no longer accept a charge because the originally intended chemical make-up of the cell is no longer.
We should all be running a gell cell....
LO

[Back Forty]

The modern problem that keeps the concrete myth alive is the fact that a lead acid battery sitting on concrete will develope condensation under it which always makes people refer to the old problem. The concrete becomes saturated over time and damage to the surface can result.

[THE BOSTON SIDEWINDER]

CONCRETE MYTH EXPOSED...REFRIGERATOR FACT: LET THE BATTS COME TO ROOM TEMP FOR 24 HRS OR SO, SO WHEN THEY GO INTO THE DEVICE THEIR POWERING AT THEY ARE AT FULL CHEMICAL POTENTIAL...BILL.