What engine??

[zooza]

I have a beautiful ( to me ) 73 tahiti jetboat it came with a berkeley pump and a 455 olds in parts. The engine needed rods and pistons and a lot of machine work also the heads need rebuilt. So i bought an engine from a person on this site and unfortunately when i got it home the block had frozen and it obvioisly was seized and it spun a bearing. NOW THAT WAS AN EXPENSIVE PAPERWEIGHT!! HA!:frown: :eek:
My question is what engine would be the best for me I'm no speed demon I just like to pull a tube and ride and have a cool one! Y'know?:cool:
I have seen a lot of dissin' the olds 455 on here, so what engine would give the least trouble , most reliabilty, ease of maintanance, etc? I have a kickass mustang GT so i like the ford marque but I'll take all suggestions under advisement:D
Thanks, Tommy in tennessee

[Squirtcha?]

If ya like the Fords, you can't hardly go wrong with a 429 or 460. Lots of guys running them and they hold up well. I'm real happy with mine. In stock form they'll last for a real long time. Lots of them available in older cars n trucks if you're looking for a core to build.
If not that, then it'd have to be the 454 BBC.

[zooza]

Thats exactly the type of info I'm looking for thanks !
Any more suggestions?;)

[HammerDown]

BB Chevys and there parts seem to be all over the place. I'm sure ya could score something used for a fair price. The other thing to consider is the cost for the needed extras such as exhaust, starter, motor mounts etc. However those parts are around also.
Chevy parts are like Dog poo, seems like there everywhere.
But then again the cost of a new motor chevy/ford and the extras needed could very well be more than what it may take to rebuild your 455. My brother cant seem to kill his...it just keeps going.

[svlperry]

i have a 455 olds in my 1976 sanger super jet same motor as day 1. just keep the oil changed

[77charger]

For rec use you would be fine but i still would say any bbc or bbf(429-460)would be the optimum choice.Since these motors are more capale of higher rpm safely(5k plus)

[Mopar426]

I would stick with what you have, or in the same engine family. I had a 350 OLDS in my first jet and a 455 in my cruzer. Both motors were very reliable and ran great. If you are planning on a future performance engine the OLDS is not the way to go, but stock parts are resonable and the junk yards are full these beasts. Swapping engines can get costly and it takes time to find all the hardware.

[Moomawnster]

Don't let these guys dis your 455 they are great engines and with some well spent $$$$ actually better than a chevy , the block is higher in nickle content and is VERY tough ..... also VERY heavy , my buddies 455 was the baddest thing on the river till the hull rotted ! $$$$$$$ is your challenge here !:eek:

[zooza]

Ok , I DO have all the hardware and plumbing for the olds. I'm not looking at making gobs of horsepower probably.. ever! so what do i do to make it as RELIABLE as i can during the buildup?
Also im still taking suggestions on Different engine choices. Keep the info coming!!! oh yeah... Thanks!:D

[Wet Dream]

Originally posted by HammerDown
My brother cant seem to kill his...it just keeps going.
Give me a crack at that ****er. I'll break that bitch. :D

[460rogers]

From what I've seen at the lake,The olds is a great all around motor.It has good tourqe for pulling skiers and a great holeshot. The OLDS powered boats around here run a pretty much stock setup with a R/V type cam,single carb(about 850 cfm) and seem to be very dependable.A stock FORD is also very dependable and can be wound higher but switching motors is a pain on most boats. new motor mounts,new exhaust,actual alignment of motor and pump can be expensive.Chevys are cheaper but usually don't hold up as well and don't have the tourque unless more money is spent,but parts are cheaper because so many people have to buy them to keep up with the fords and olds powered units. FINALLY HIT 100posts that is WE BE COOL Sidewound said so.

[Squirtcha?]

I'm not an Olds basher and I know some people have motors that have run for a long time, but the fact remains there are some special things that you HAVE to do to make em live in a boat (tell me I'm lying Olds guys). With the BBF or BBC you just build em stock without anything special and they'll run for years.

[zooza]

First, what do you have to do to the olds to make it live.? I mean beyond a stock rebuild and an rv cam.
Are the benefits of ford or chevy worth the hassle of a swap? I assume I could ebay my olds mounts and exhaust and blocks and heads to recoup some of the losses.
I'm not leaning one way or the other I just want the facts, Just the facts maa'm.!:wink: :D

[LakesOnly]

These facts came about as a result of a somewhat heated arguement between Ford and Chevy guys on the ***boat forum. Here are some of the facts in favor of Ford lifted from that post:
~~The Ford block is finished a little nicer than the chev, the head bolts are counter bored so if you deck the block you dont have to counter sink the holes--already done.
~~...using blowers and turbos on stock rods.
~~large cube stroker cranks from stock cranks...
~~They have the same canted valve design as the Chevy (even use the same Crane Roller roller rocker p/n's), and the 429/460's are dime-a-dozen everywhere for dirt cheap. And I mean dirt cheap.
~~We don't have to search hi and low for a tall deck block, all Fords are "tall" deck [10.300+"]
~~...symmeterical ports for better fuel distribution.
~~The Ford cast crank and 2-bolt block power threshhold is alot higher than the BBC.
~~BBFs can run bigger cams as it is located higher in the block than the BBC...
~~BBFs have bigger diameter lifters for a more "friendly" cam profile for flat tappet cams...
~~BBFs can make good compresson ratios with flat top pistons [chamber CCs range 72cc to 96cc] We don't need huge dome pistons to get a 10.5 to 1 C/R..
~~BBFs (have a) a 1.71 rod ratio...WOW!
~~(BBF's) make a 514-521-540" engine with stock parts and do it for under 3K...
~~...blocks can be bored to 4.520"...put in a 4.500" stroke crank and it makes a 572" engine for just under $3K...can ya do that with a stock block Chevy?
Now don't all the Chevy guys get up in arms; feel free to post whatever adavantages Chevy may have over Ford. That's why we call this a "Forum.":)
LO

[Squirtcha?]

Sitting here having my coffee and thought I'd do a little research. Keep in mind that this is only one guy's (the writer, not me) opinion of what needs to happen with an BBO as far as oiling goes. It seems there are lots of different opinions out there. This guy is far more conservative than Mondello (an Olds specialist). Mondello would have you buying hundereds if not thousands of dollars worth of stuff to ensure that your motor kept running without spinning a bearing.
From lots of reading I've done through the years, oiling seems to be the biggest issue with the Olds. Some guys (even on this board) have had their BBO's rebuilt two and three times due to oiling related issues (some gave up, some didn't).
The writer
"My 455 in my boat is subject to long bouts at 5500-5700 rpm. A 5 minute cruise at this RPM is not uncommon. I use a Dooley Enterprises 14 quart pan on that motor. I also have a dual remote filter set up. It takes FOREVER to change the oil in that baby! The pump is a high volume with a special pick up for the big pan. The rear main has been ported too.
The way to improve your pressure on the Melling, or any oil pump, is to assure that the gear to cover clearances are correct. Take your oil pump to your machinist and have them check that the gears are the same length and that you have minimum clearance to the cover. A gasket might not be needed.
A Fram HP25 will also give you more pressure at idle than an HP2. If you are going to do all that work to replace the rear seal you might as well put on a larger capacity pan and you will not have a problem with sucking the pan dry. Use oil restricted push rods and and grind the oil return holes in the block and heads and you should have no problem. I have heard that main oil restrictors are good and bad."

[zooza]

I have seen a lot of 460 engines around here. and I have this bud who is a ford fanatic he should be able to help me find a really good motor.
I havent really seen a lot of mounts for the bbc I guess they are being used! I have not see very many bbc engines around here in trader papers or on the radio. seems they are prized therefore very expensive.
At this point I'm leaning to the ford camp IF I dont rebuild my olds. Notice i said leaning. not convinced.
My olds needs bored for sure, the rods from the other one need reconditioned so I've got a lot of machine work to be done. and that adds up substantially. Thats why i tried buying the engine that turned out to be crap! BIG MISTAKE Expensive mistake Too!!!

[sidewound]

This 455 ran in my Sidewinder for 30 yrs. It was a stock build. Had the original GM pistons marked 8-1 on one bank and 8.5-1 on the other bank. It was the stock pack-a-jet package.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/114I_hate_blown_motors.jpg
Managed to blow it up after I had it a year.
I opted to rebuild to conserve on cash.
The short block new pistons etc cost me 3K. Add on the new cam, roller rockers etc and the bill went up. I figured in using the original intake and exhaust to $ave! Not to be. They were crap!
So add on the cost of exhaust and intake. I scrounged around and bought used. They all had to be surfaced. 8 qt pan, hv & hp mondello pump. External oil returns and enlarging the original return galleries are the only oiling changes I made. Their are pros and cons. With it to do over I would have probably built the chevy. I could have got a lot more bang for the buck. But hey, I like ROCKET RED!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/114MILL_IN_010-med.jpg
If your gonna rebuild make sure your gonna be satisfied with the quality of the bolt ons. If not the brand change is not a big deal.
Peace Man!:cool:
CESAR

[Taylorman]

I just rebuilt my olds early this summer due to a spun bearing. I put main oil restrictors, lifter bore restrictors(cheaper than restricted push rods), an 8 qt oil pan, high volume oil pump and external oil return lines from the back of heads to the pan. I have not had a problem yet (knock on wood). Its the first engine rebuild I have ever done. Don't even bother calling Mondello, they are rip off and are a@@ho@@s. There are many other places to buy parts for alot cheaper. I bought all my parts from Summit. They even had the jet boat 8qt Moroso oil pan and pickup in stock. There is a place called M&J performance i think, they sell bearings for olds that are elongated and ready to install. I did not know about them when I bought mine. Like someone said above, make sure and get your oilpump blueprinted or buy one already blueprinted. It really helps your oil pressure. Don't let the Olds bashers discourage you from using the Olds, its a great engine if your not looking for big hp. It will be great for what you are doing with it. Mine turns 4800 @ 66 mph. Good luck.

[F N Fast]

BBO, BBC, BBF, BBP, BBD, whatever you decide to build will be fine. The important thing now is make a decision of what your needs are going to be. Even if your going basicly stock, you still have to build it right.
Just my opinion but if you going blown the BBC parts will be easier to come by. (Not nessassarly cheaper, just easier to find). I found this out in my first boat that had a 460. In my case it was easier to build a 454 as the deals and pieces of the puzzle came together. I have no idea what it would have cost to do the same with a BBF.
Another matter is who is going to machine and build the engine? What do they build the most of? If they mostly build chevy racing engines and you ask them to an Old's or Ford sure they can do a great job, but is that the only one they've built this year? My engine was built by a guy with lots of chevy parts laying around and sure enough there's always something you need that you don;t have and he had it in the back room. If that were a Ford or Old's..I'd be the one doing the footwork to find this and that.
Just a thought.
Just do it right, whatever it is. Run what ya brung.

[Back Forty]

I wouldn't tell you not to consider the other engines but the Olds "is" a fine engine and should not be overlooked.
www.realoldspower.com
This is a great resource for info.
Mine is stock and is still running the factory 5 qt. pan and oil cooler. I can run at 4400 rpms forever as long as the oil level is at a proper level. I run 10 40wt. Never have a problem and so far the old run about has achieved 58 mph on gps. Not to bad for a heavy old classic.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/pd650e51a637ad7e2c4d2d20ca43d53a0/fac65e7e.jpg

[victorfb]

when i bought my 74 tahiti the 455 olds was running but i knew it was getting tired. the end of the season i tore it down to rebuild. a couple valves were burnt and needed to be replaced. remember this was the original engine , no rebuilds. its been going strong for the first owner since 74. new main and rod bearings. polished the crank by hand. (more time spent on polishing the better) did some grinding on all the oil return galleys. i didnt know about the restrictors at the time so i didnt use em.honed the cyclinders, new rings, new valve job, a 10 qt oil pan,edelbrock torker intake with a holy 750 vac sec. and put it all together. its running strong with no problems. it will run 4700 rpm but i try not to go there too much and for very long. all these olds bashers ive heard have allways said that they have oiling problems. well maybe so. but they are also probably trying to spin 5500 rpm or more. set it up so the motor spins around 4500-4700. and i think youll have no problem. switching to a differant engine will be costly. if all your doing is playing, pulling skiers, tubers, ect. id stay with the olds. its just fine for the intended use. if you cant resist the "i need more speed and HP" then id do the swap to either ford or chevy.

[Jet City]

As a former Olds jetboat owner, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I think the Olds is fine for a stock to mild performance jetboat, mine was bone stock and the only precations I took was to use the biggest oil filter I could find and run the oil a quart high, some may disagree with this practice but I beleive no oil will damage an engine faster than too much windage. I also have a friend that still owns an 18' American jetboat that has a 455 Olds we rebuilt 8+ years ago for around $1500. that is still going strong. Neither one of the engines had anything special done to thier oiling systems and have survived many years of breif 4800-5000 rpm runs, and have pulled many a skier. I think the Olds will work just fine for your plans, but I would agree that the BBF and BBC are far more reliable (and economical) for those who want to build a fast boat.

[Ray Hamel]

Look at the pictures Sidewound put in his reply. See all those pretty, shiny thingies bolted to the engine. By the time you find and buy them all, just to get back in the H20, you won't be able to afford the gas anyway. All brands of engines have their problems etc. Stick with what you have and learn as much as you can about that block as you can .

[sidewound]

Originally posted by Ray Hamel
Look at the pictures Sidewound put in his reply. See all those pretty, shiny thingies bolted to the engine. By the time you find and buy them all, just to get back in the H20, you won't be able to afford the gas anyway. All brands of engines have their problems etc. Stick with what you have and learn as much as you can about that block as you can .
GOOD ADVICE!
As I said If your happy with your bolt ons, the Olds will do good for you. If you wanna upgrade those, you have a bonafideeee question.
Peace Man!:cool:
CESAR

[zooza]

That was some seriously good advice , I'm gonna stick with what ive got most of I already built a 455 for a 442 several years ago but I sold it before I got this boat!!!
Gonna try to take it to the shop for cleanup and honing or boring maybe tomorrow.
Again, thanks to everyone for the great advice and Happy holidays to you all!!!:D

[Squirtcha?]

Good luck with your project. Hope everything goes well for ya. Get some pictures and put em up if ya can.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

455 olds is a great motor. There are a few downfalls but it can be a great motor. There are a few things you might wanna do to give it a longer lifespan.
#1- keep the R's under 5k
#2- keep it in the water
#3- large oilpan
#4- oil restricted pushrods
#5- shotpeen and resize rods with arp bolts
#6- alignhone and use arp bolts in the main caps
#7- make sure oiling clearances are loose(.025-.035 mains,.020-.030 rods
#8- most importantly balance that baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats what i did to mine this year and you can hammer that baby all day long;) and she still holds together:D
396

[zooza]

I'm printing this so I can have this on hand when i need it! Great advice .
I couldnt get the block to the machine shop today they were closed for a few days , seem this is a holiday weekend! Oh well I'll take it next week!
Thanks for the info. tommy h