Engine Build Advice

[78Eliminator]

BACKGROUND:
I am ready to start buying parts for my new motor which will be going into my Sanger Hydro (Wayne Herberts (Dossangers) old boat).
Here is what I have:
Chevy Bowtie tall deck with 4.25 bore. Brand spanking new, never been bored or prepped or anything.
8/71 blower and I have not purchased the hat yet, but it's going to be injected.
HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS:
What is a good bore and stroke combo? I was thinking 4.25 bore AND stroke. What are most of these weekend drag boat guys running in their boats? Do I need massive CIs to run this thing, or should I stay conservative? I was almost thinking that if I stayed with the 4.25 bore, it will give me plenty of service in case I need to rebore down the line. Any suggestions appreciated....
I have not purchased heads yet either. I was thinking about the Brodix BB2 Extras.
Thanks

[Hotcrusader76]

Brodix heads would be an awesome choice otherwise I've seen good results with the AFRs.

[78Eliminator]

Originally posted by Hotcrusader76
Brodix heads would be an awesome choice otherwise I've seen good results with the AFRs.
Yeah, when I was at the drags at Ming a couple weeks ago, I saw a lot of both on the boats there......

[whiskey & water]

Are you going to run on gas or alcohol?

[smalls]

4.500 bore and 4.00 or 4.250 crank?????????? Block should be able to go 4.625 leaving you .125 for service,,,,,,,

[78Eliminator]

Originally posted by whiskey & water
Are you going to run on gas or alcohol?
It's wide open right now. This is a full blown drag boat so I'm not too worried about mileage. I was thinking race gas, but it would not take much to steer me towards alky....

[whiskey & water]

Just from my experience and what you want to do? To go fast and stay moderate with your cubic inches go alcohol. Also with the motors that i have lost , use aluminum rods. If something goes its easier on other parts.

[whiskey & water]

With your bore right now with a 4.25 crank with give you 482 cubic inches on alcohol in your boat would be more than enough horsepower. You would have the capablilty to run 7.00 sec in the quarter mile as long as your hull is capable of that. Which i believe in would. Darrin Christle own this boat with a 427 bore 60 thousands and ran in the 7 sec class in the NJBA http://www.dragboats.com/gallery/images/03_10_IHBA_2474_316.jpg

[78Eliminator]

Hey Whiskey, why is it that a lot of the blown drag boats are not running intercoolers?

[fastvdriver]

go with the alky you will have a bunch of help when needed at the races. not very many injected gas rigs out there.
you can also run the motor easy and save on parts when running the alky as compared to the gas. :)

[fastvdriver]

I'm using steel rods and not worried about the number on passes on them. the only reason I went with steel is that I use the boat out on the lake and carry almost 40 gallons of alky. I would be replacing rods twice a year! with the run time. We have a few blown alky motors running steel rods and 2 years of time on them with no breaing issues at all in fact they still look brand new. one of the flats runs the 8's and mine runs the 9's at 5% under. I'm running a 496 with a 8-71 and a bird with 315 merlin heads (steel) good luck with the new package

[whiskey & water]

The ones that are running intercoolers run gasoline, thats to give the a cool charger. Alcohol you will not need one.

[Kurtis500]

Go with alcohol.

[whiskey & water]

78 eliminator is your blower set up for alcohol or gas. The alcohol blower run there rotor clearance a little tighter than gas. If set up for gas you could still run it on alcohol. It just when you boost it alot it will perform at its potiental.

[Fiat48]

Amen to alcohol. Easier to tune, easier on parts. A loose gas blower will do 7's easy. Drastic boat can run mid 7's with a loose 6/71 blower straight up. 4.500 bore, 4.0 stroke, basic aluminum heads. And no 2 speed. Steel rod deal also.
BB2 Xtra heads are excellent!

[FLYTE RISK]

Whats the matter with darts instead? C.N.C pro1 right out of the box flow better than bb2's castings are superiour as well.. At least thats what I am being told from the person porting my heads, the flow bench dont lie just my opinion..:D

[smalls]

The 345cc heads would even work with good a blower,,,
4.00 crank and 4.500 bore Dart heads, 871 and Alcohol........SWEEEET

[Fiat48]

Not knocking Darts head but the reason I use Brodix is because of the huge valve seats they use and I liked the Bordix casting better. When I ran Darts I was always chasing the valve job and finally had to have big seats put in them. 70 runs now on a set of BB2's and we are just now touching up the original valve job.

[78Eliminator]

This is one of the best threads I have posted (because of all your responces). You guys are awesome. Beers are on me. Thanks!!!!
I think we covered the core, now a couple more.
What would be a good cam grind for this setup? Are there any out of the box good ones that are kind of a good starting point for a novice builder like myself?
How many RPMS can I expect with this sort of setup?
Where can I get a stout crank. What brands do you like? Are there any good rotating assembly packaged deals that make sense?

[smalls]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
This is one of the best threads I have posted (because of all your responces). You guys are awesome. Beers are on me. Thanks!!!!
I think we covered the core, now a couple more.
What would be a good cam grind for this setup? Are there any out of the box good ones that are kind of a good starting point for a novice builder like myself?
How many RPMS can I expect with this sort of setup?
Where can I get a stout crank. What brands do you like? Are there any good rotating assembly packaged deals that make sense?
If you want some serios HP and Great Guys to work with? This picture says it all ,,
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/266m_d-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/41102-0210_IMG-med.JPG

[Laroy R Mentor]

Since when has this Smalls guy become a motor specialist?

[Laroy R Mentor]

Billy B
Ron Grose
M and D
Thank god for the advertisement Smalls.

[Fiat48]

Bore: 4.500
Stroke 4.00 Got money? Go Lunati. Crower or Callies. No money= Go Eagle.
Piston: Forged name brand. Have money? BME. No money = SRP
I like 11.5 to 1. Have done 12.5 to 1.
Wrist pin: C&A or equivalent tool steel 190 grm taper wall.
Rod: If you like aluminum then BME. If you like Steel then Lunati or Crower. .400 long
Camshaft: I like Crane. Intake 284 @ .050. Exhaust 296 Lift .750 or close. 114
Roller lifters: I like Comp Cams severe roller ($500 a set new style oiling)
RPM? 8 grand is enough, 7500 for life.
But then they are many ways and many combo's and opinions.
:D

[SUI-CY-COLE]

bigger the bore is better hands down,no matter if its nos,,blown or carbs...always run alky on a blower ,gas plain sucks ass.run port injection along with a hat ... at least 12-1 compression ...call a cam store for your cam...most jackasses dont know the difference between cam timing and ignition timing.any stroke will work go with at least a 8-71...big magneto,run 34 degrees in it at 40% over...and make sure you got some balls to stay in it for a 1/4 mile.......if you do, go up to 60%over and 36 degrees.dont run steel rods with blown alky if your making "real" power,,run aluminum,,howards,millers,or grodens.or the best right now childs and albert deep cycles....im going back to my nos powered briggs and stratton lawn mower now.....bye kids:rolleyes:

[SUI-CY-COLE]

smalls,,an engine specialist?after ..."from what i heard" an ass whoopin on so-cal guys this last year he is the man!nothing like knowing the right people, dave riolo still doing the tune-up and engine building???:D

[SUI-CY-COLE]

oh one more thing......BRODIX does suck.....dyno's and flow benches dont lie....dart all the way!:p

[whiskey & water]

Eliminator you are getting good information here. There different ways of going at this. What is your intention of doing with this boat . Just lake or full out race . Look head and see what you what to do here . With info your getting you could go either way. For example such as rods steel or alumium. Steel for the lake use or aluminum for the race track and this is just my .02 cents. I had steel oliver rods in my 482 and I have aluminum venolia in my 427. My 482 we keep close eye on it. I lost two rods in it at red bluff in the pe class. The thing about it is we lost a bearing or the piston broke at the pin area. well when that went those rods took alot with it. It beat out the block really good and wasted the billet crank (callies). Theres where aluminum comes into play. They woulded of killed my crank. I am not the expert at this Iam just giving you what i have experienced and my opinion.

[78Eliminator]

Ok, so I am kinda tossing the Alluminum and Steel rods information around.
I assume that with the alluminum rods, they get beat out of round a lot quicker than steel. So I would think that you would need to machine them back into round a lot more often than the steel, right? So the only advantage of the alluminum, is that they wont take the whole motor with them if they have a major failure, right?
I am building a drag boat. When you say "lake boat" I assume that means a fast boat where you kick back with your buddies, drink beers and do a couple passes. Well, I will take it to the lake I suppose, but I also intend to race it......

[whiskey & water]

In a blown alcohol motor they will last 60 passes then throw them away. aluminum rods can run in the area of 600 to 800 dollars a set . your H beam eagles will run 800dollars good for about 900 horse. Billet steel rods such as oliver rods about 1500 dollars i believe, olive rods will handle above 900 horses. Eliminator how fast do you want to go in your sanger. Do you plan on puting a two speed in also?

[Bense468]

I don't mean to be the guy that is shooting you down eliminator and I hope you don't think that but wanted to add my opinion after reading all of this. By the way there is some very good advise in here.
Well here it goes. With you being a new V-drive owner I think you should build what you want (an alcohol motor), but I would run steel rods in the thing with low boost until you get the feel for her. Too many new combinations to throw in there to start out with. If you get the feel for the boat and still want to race the thing then throw more boost to the blower and slap a set of aluminumn rods in it and go racing. I would hate to see you toss all your eggs into one basket and not enjoy it. Like I said just toy around with a mild alcohol motor at about 800-900hp until you know you have the feel for it and want to step it up and go racing.

[Slyder]

Joe,
What do you mean.....Darrin probably gets at least 160 runs on his rods! :) OR MORE !!
Paul:p;)

[Jetboatguru]

Originally posted by Bense468
I don't mean to be the guy that is shooting you down eliminator and I hope you don't think that but wanted to add my opinion after reading all of this. By the way there is some very good advise in here.
Well here it goes. With you being a new V-drive owner I think you should build what you want (an alcohol motor), but I would run steel rods in the thing with low boost until you get the feel for her. Too many new combinations to throw in there to start out with. If you get the feel for the boat and still want to race the thing then throw more boost to the blower and slap a set of aluminumn rods in it and go racing. I would hate to see you toss all your eggs into one basket and not enjoy it. Like I said just toy around with a mild alcohol motor at about 800-900hp until you know you have the feel for it and want to step it up and go racing.
KILL JOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just kidding Bense,
I think that is great advise. Go with good steel rods and enjoy it. With the Blown motor you will probably stack a big gear in it and keep the rpms down. It will haul ass and you won't have to worry about counting passes.

[78Eliminator]

That being said, I have a 2 bolt main oval port motor in my garage right now. Should I toss that one in to get used to the boat while I build an alcohol motor?
What you guys don't know, is for the most part, I just want engine building experience. I want to do it professionally some day and am going to school for in a few nights every week. So perhaps I should throw in that mule motor for now and take my time building the blown alky dealeo.
Opinions?

[Hotcrusader76]

Justin,
You nearly answered your own question. I would push aside the tall mule and learn the dynamics of the basic combustion engine first with a slew of well-built lake boat motors. That's where the moneys at.
Many of gearheads on this forum have run gas, methanol, and even nitro and they loose bottom-ends just as much as the next guy.... and with only a couple races. Most of them have been building motors for years and years.
Once you've nailed down the ins and outs of the simple gas application then slowly move up into higher compression alky motors where there is absolutely no room for error. Before you know it this will become second hand knowledge to you. Unless you really trust your machinist you need to also learn on how to double check the tolerances on some of those mountain motors as well. It chocks up more confusion to the complexity of these forged shortblocks.
It's always best to learn on something less expensive then to burn up a big cubic inch forged motor with pistons that cost more than the boat or even drop a valve into this expensive operation and end it all instantly. This is not to say the pros haven't made a mistake but I would bet they make it far less often then the novice builders would.
Personal example.... everyone always told me the Moroso screen kit for the lifter valley would work and never come loose. Well after Ed Hale and I installed in the shortblock it came loose after my cam break-in. Luckily I caught it when I was changing the intake gaskets from a milk shake incident.
The Lesson learned? Move onto something better or even prep the block surface better.
Some great advice I took from some experienced folks on here was to also learn the process of a drag event. Pits, warm-up, tuning, and even driving procedures alone are another learning curve. All of these procedures combined with a motor that could possibly even intimidate a Prostock drag racer is enough to burn a motor up before you even realized it. For some it's taken years and years of practice coming up through the ups and downs of racing to learn the art, others maybe it's just a gift or even just luck.
Also take into consideration earning your repore among the common lake boat motor crowd, which is in abundance, before stepping up into the big leagues. When clients are looking for alky motors they want someone who’s had experience from the ground up, for example look at Lingenfelter. Did he not start out drag racing gas cars off and on before he moved up? Even so the same for David Reher. There's alot to learn to how they began.
Nonetheless I commend thee for taking on this endeavor and wish ya the best of luck. Build them and they will come. We are the next generation. Good luck Justin.
~Ty

[Bense468]

Originally posted by Jetboatguru
KILL JOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just kidding Bense,
I think that is great advise. Go with good steel rods and enjoy it. With the Blown motor you will probably stack a big gear in it and keep the rpms down. It will haul ass and you won't have to worry about counting passes.
Thats me :)

[ssmike]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
That being said, I have a 2 bolt main oval port motor in my garage right now. Should I toss that one in to get used to the boat while I build an alcohol motor?
Opinions?
VP,
YES, YES, YES.
1. You definitely need the seat time.
2. You might not like the training wheel boat.
3. You might grow some "--------"and decide to step up to a flat.

[whiskey & water]

ya your right, Darrin definitly show you how far they can go and how hard you can push them. If he says there bad then there bad. The crazy thing is that he keeps on winning and goesdown the track . I think in the marvel mistrey oil that he tappers in that we dont know about. opps did i say that out loud !!!!!!!

[dossangers]

Originally posted by ssmike
VP,
YES, YES, YES.
1. You definitely need the seat time.
2. You might not like the training wheel boat.
3. You might grow some "--------"and decide to step up to a flat. NO NO NO learn with the horsepower just go mild then WILD that boat dosnt like WEAK motors like the guys say around here anybody can drive a HYDRO it takes real BALLS to go hard into the corners with an alky motor and then cross your wake without ever LIFTING!!! thats me why would anybody wanna turn RIGHT!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: LOL !!!AND LMAO!!

[78Eliminator]

My head is spinning from all the opinions :D

[Mike Oxbig]

Dude If you need any advice or help I am available. I have a great track record and my bike runs real hard.

[whiskey & water]

Just do what your money can do, its always good to have a back up motor .

[Rexone]

Originally posted by Mike Oxbig
Dude If you need any advice or help I am available. I have a great track record and my bike runs real hard.
Mike good to see you back on the forum. Where is your kick-ass avatar of your beautiful helmet? It's a redx here. :(

[Rexone]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
My head is spinning from all the opinions :D
I'd go bowling and have a few beers before any big decisions. :D

[78Eliminator]

Originally posted by Rexone
I'd go bowling and have a few beers before any big decisions. :D
I don't drink when I bowl. I take the shit serious.... :D

[smalls]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
I don't drink when I bowl. I take the shit serious.... :D
Thats What I'm Talkin about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Rexone]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
I don't drink when I bowl. I take the shit serious.... :D
Good man, I don't drink when I bowl either. or is it I don't bowl when I drink. shit I don't bowl anymore. I'm so confused now.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Mike Oxbig
Dude If you need any advice or help I am available. I have a great track record and my bike runs real hard.
Bike???

[78Eliminator]

Blown Alky heads: What kind of chamber volume are we looking for? 119cc range?

[78Eliminator]

Hey, remember this thread?? Hahaha. Ok, here is what has changed for me.
I am building a NA alcohol motor. I have an old hilborn stack injector that I'm using. I have a 4" crank, .250 alluminum rods, roller lifters, roller rockers, 4-bolt block (std bore) and forged GM crank. I have some Brodix BB2-Plus heads on the way.
All I need are some pistons and a cam. Any opinions on the cam and pistons?

[smalls]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/266m_d-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/41102-0210_IMG-med.JPG [/B][/QUOTE]

[78Eliminator]

Not sure what you are saying Smalls? You mean call them for advice, or what? I am building and doing most of the machine work myself. The last thing I want to do is pay someone to build it.

[Fiat48]

Compression height will be 1.395. I think you were planning on .030 over. JE part number 111589 piston is 50 CC dome, uses 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 rings and weighs 598 grms. Pins that come with the piston is suitable for unblown use.
SRP #140684 has a 48cc dome, uses same rings and weighs 620 grms. http://www.jepistons.com/pdf/2002-srp-chevy.pdf
That will get you started. Be sure to check part number when ordering as on line catalogs can be wrong.

[78Eliminator]

Is 12.8 static compression going to be enough for an unblown alcohol dealeo?

[Fiat48]

Well, I like as much compression as possible. But 50CC dome is about the limit available. 12.8 will work. Final ratio will probably be higher anyway.

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Ok, so I am kinda tossing the Alluminum and Steel rods information around.
I assume that with the alluminum rods, they get beat out of round a lot quicker than steel...So...you would need to machine them back into round a lot more often than the steel, right?
Can't believe nobody straightened this one out...
78, you can't refurbish aluminum rods. Once they're toast, they're tossed.
Aluminum rods almost always cannot be resized on the big end because the cap mating area is serrated, so one cannot machine this area down for a big-end resize. When the big end is out of spec, the rods are history.
Now, somebody assist me on the lifespan of aluminum rods; it seems there are as many answers to this question as there are people (or so it seems). The general answer I hear is that aluminum has no indication of level of fatigue (or whatever)...just use them 50-60 passes and throw them away before it's too late.
But the most logical answer I've heard is that once they have stretched, they're on the edge so toss'em. If you are in spec, then they are useable. Every aluminum rod manufacturer has spec's to determine the continued use of the rod, such as, "when c/c length has increased by .xxx", the lifespan of the rod is exhausted. Replace." Is this correct?
Replies please?
E78, not trying to hi-jack your thread; I'm trying to help. I think you need to know the answer to this before you make your decision.
LO

[78Eliminator]

Thanks Lakes!!! I always appreciate input, that what this place is all about. I opted for the alluminum rods. Like mentioned earlier, if they fail, they are a little more forgiving on the motor. I picked up some used ones that are still in spec.
I just ordered my Brodix BB2 Plus heads and JE pistons. Looks like my Sanger is going to be alive this summer......

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Thanks Lakes!!! I always appreciate input, that what this place is all about. I opted for the alluminum rods. Like mentioned earlier, if they fail, they are a little more forgiving on the motor. I picked up some used ones that are still in spec.
I just ordered my Brodix BB2 Plus heads and JE pistons. Looks like my Sanger is going to be alive this summer......
Okay, then I admit it! I picked up some BBC Manleys...they check out okay....c/c okay, no galling on thrust side of big end either, etc, etc.
LO
p.s. might be sending you the ol' hard-drive...details later (off the board>

[78Eliminator]

Originally posted by LakesOnly
Okay, then I admit it! I picked up some BBC Manleys...they check out okay....
HAHAHA!!!!!! The truth comes out!!!!!!

[Fiat48]

Lakes,
Aluminum rods tend to tighten the big end, not loosen. They can be resized and seldom do the cap serations need to be cut since the big end shrinks. The dowel pins are removed and the rods honed to spec and the pins replaced. The rod mfg all will resize the rods.
Old school rule of thumb was to run the aluminums 10 runs, take them out and resize them, then back in till you are done. Not sure what today's theory is.
I've never broke an aluminum rod (finding some wood to knock on). I've never been able to measure anything reliable in the stretch department to determine the rods is stretching and I should replace. Problem with aluminum rods is how many cycles do you go before replacing. Most of that is religion with racers. Some guys 29 passes. Ask him why and he will say he broke one on the 30th run.
I get nervous about 60 runs. I don't run my stuff that hard. I have run 125 runs but that was "a lost logbook" that when found scared the Hell out of me.
If I thought I could get away with it, I would run a steel rod. But I have been told the cushion effect of aluminum is needed with blown alcohol. I haven't challenged that. Yet.
Bill Miller told me to replace them one run before they break.:rolleyes:

[LakesOnly]

Fiat48, the answer man.:)
Thanks Fiat,
LO

[78Eliminator]

(In Butthead's voice) Fiat is cool. He like, knows how to make horsepower....

[Sangerboy]

Originally posted by LakesOnly
Now, somebody assist me on the lifespan of aluminum rods; it seems there are as many answers to this question as there are people (or so it seems). The general answer I hear is that aluminum has no indication of level of fatigue (or whatever)...just use them 50-60 passes and throw them away before it's too late.
Sangster may have some advice for you on this one.................

[CircleJerk]

Ok, my current SS83 runs alum rods. It has been running for three years. Each heat is 2 1/4 miles of racing with 1 mile of warmup. Two heats per day equals 6 miles times two days of racing is 12 miles per race weekend. Lets see, we average 4 races per year so 12X4=48 miles per year X 3 equals [144 miles on my motor]!! That's a little more than 60 1/4 runs but then I dont have a puffer and 13 to l compression. Approximately 12 to l on gas and it spins 7300 during the race. Am I on borrowed time? The rods were made in the early 80s and I dont have a clue as to their make. I am told the material could be a little better than current alum rods. I am a little concerned and will probably pull it apart to check length and size. Do you think I have just been lucky? I do know alum rods dont like backing down when the throttle is closed but the whirlaway somewhat cushions this action by releasing the prop while coasting. Is this true? :)

[BigBoyToys]

Originally posted by Sangerboy
Sangster may have some advice for you on this one.................
I agree;) :D

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by CircleJerk
Ok, my current SS83 runs alum rods. It has been running for three years. Each heat is 2 1/4 miles of racing with 1 mile of warmup. Two heats per day equals 6 miles times two days of racing is 12 miles per race weekend. Lets see, we average 4 races per year so 12X4=48 miles per year X 3 equals [144 miles on my motor]!! That's a little more than 60 1/4 runs but then I dont have a puffer and 13 to l compression. Approximately 12 to l on gas and it spins 7300 during the race. Am I on borrowed time? The rods were made in the early 80s and I dont have a clue as to their make. I am told the material could be a little better than current alum rods. I am a little concerned and will probably pull it apart to check length and size. Do you think I have just been lucky? I do know alum rods dont like backing down when the throttle is closed but the whirlaway somewhat cushions this action by releasing the prop while coasting. Is this true? :)
I have always heard that the decleration is a big deal in rod life. But then again, may be another "racer religion". My opinion has always been hammering the rods by detonation is the real killer. When you beat bearings out of the thing because you missed the tune up is when you hurt the rods.
But in a light rotating assembly and unblown and rpm's in the 7000 area, I know a lot of racers push the rods 150 runs. I've talked many times to Bill Miller and he has confirmed that. There has been some changes in aluminum rod materials the last 10 years. C&A claims they have a deep cycle rod that even the fuel guys run longer. Bill Miller claims the C&A rod is too brittle and has shown me shattered C&A rods. Then there is the Billet rod claim that they are superior. Never run them but someone may have some input on that.
I think in your application I would get them out there. And I would go with a quality steel rod like a Lunati Pro Mod rod, Crower, Carillo or the like. Since you run laps, there is always the heat issue with aluminum rods and we know they don't like heat. I'd measure the rods when I got em out but like I said, I never find anything to tell me cycle life is over.

[smalls]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Not sure what you are saying Smalls? You mean call them for advice, or what? I am building and doing most of the machine work myself. The last thing I want to do is pay someone to build it.
M&D Is good source for Info and work.
I have about 80 to 100 pases on the Millers in my motor. Its a 14.5 to 1, motor With a 300hp shot of NOS. its only been on the bottle for the last 30 or so passes.
Ive heard 100 pases on NOS and 150 With out.......
Yea I'm putting Rods, Rings and bearings in it as we speak............. Dont want to tear it down in the middle of the season...

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Fiat48
...in a light rotating assembly and unblown and rpm's in the 7000 area, I know a lot of racers push the rods 150 runs....
This is encouraging as it fits my upcoming application...
LO

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Fiat48
There has been some changes in aluminum rod materials the last 10 years...
Hey,
Anybody into hi-tech motor stuff has got to get a look at these ceramic composite aluminum rods with splayed rod bolts. WOW.
http://www.competitionplus.com/05_14_2003/nextgen_rods.html
Take the time to read the whole thing as it is truly groundbreaking and downright bad-ass.
LO

[CircleJerk]

Originally posted by Fiat48
I have always heard that the decleration is a big deal in rod life. But then again, may be another "racer religion". My opinion has always been hammering the rods by detonation is the real killer. When you beat bearings out of the thing because you missed the tune up is when you hurt the rods.
But in a light rotating assembly and unblown and rpm's in the 7000 area, I know a lot of racers push the rods 150 runs. I've talked many times to Bill Miller and he has confirmed that. There has been some changes in aluminum rod materials the last 10 years. C&A claims they have a deep cycle rod that even the fuel guys run longer. Bill Miller claims the C&A rod is too brittle and has shown me shattered C&A rods. Then there is the Billet rod claim that they are superior. Never run them but someone may have some input on that.
I think in your application I would get them out there. And I would go with a quality steel rod like a Lunati Pro Mod rod, Crower, Carillo or the like. Since you run laps, there is always the heat issue with aluminum rods and we know they don't like heat. I'd measure the rods when I got em out but like I said, I never find anything to tell me cycle life is over.
thanks Fiat, I'm sure we could share some gloomy blown alcohol horror stories, like the time we missed the tune up and launched the magnesium enderle hat 500 feet in two directions! It simply coughed when 509 cubes ran out of prime just like a cold carburetor does with a bad choke! Sad for the wallet! We never lost an alum rod in the rail, in fact the last turn key car went to Texas where it totalled over 200 passes. For all I know it is still running. It also was a 427 internally balanced and only 20#s of boost and ran 6.90s at 200mph in 1984!
I only have 500 bucks in this short block and a spare engine is almost done so I guess I will gamble at the risk of a 1968 chevelle block! You should be paid for the advise you offer here since YOU paid for the wisdom in broken parts and hard work! JeRk :wink:

[Fiat48]

I've been pretty fortunate on the blow ups. Broke a wrist pin once but that was because I was too cheap to buy taper walls. Thought I could get by without them. Did for 3 runs! Piched a few ring lands by getting "greedy" with the tune up. But the ongoing problem never solved is occasionally spinning a main bearing. I still fight that today.
The forgiving stroke of the 427 probably had a lot to do with the long life. I had one make over 200 runs also. Just finally wore it out. We actually had funeral services in the back yard. :D The wife cried.