A little history

[smalls]

Starting a tread on DRAG BOAT HISTORY.
POST IT HERE.
Here is some who and when in Drag Boat History.
This can from a friend that was big into it in the 70s and 80s.
A couple of weeks ago there was a thread on ***boat talking about the different boat manufacturers. I have had all these thoughts and memories going through my head for the last couple of weeks of what I remember transpiring during the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's. Hope this doesn't get too long.
60's to 70's, there were a ton of Flatbottom and Hydro manufacturers: Sanger, Howard, Litchcraft, Buyers, Hondo, Brendella, Kurtis Kraft, DiMarco, Cole, Cheyenne, and a bunch more. Jack Davidson's Sanger Boats was probably the elite of the group going into the 70's.
Sanger made a ton of flatbottoms, about 1 per week, through the early 70's. When the jet boat craze started in the mid 70's Jack's production moved more to jet boats. As I remember him saying, It took a week to rig a V-Drive boat and 1day to rig a jet for about the same profit. When Sanger came out with the Picklefork Hydro the whole Hydro scene went that way.
Arlen Kurtis and Sonny DiMarco were originally partners. Arlens dad Frank used to build aluminum bodied Indy cars so Arlen had the equipment. Sonny was the craftsman. I have seen boats repaired by Sonny that you could not tell where it was repaired even on the inside. Arlen & Sonny split around 1970 or so. When they split they each took copies of the molds, flat & hydro. We had 3 Kurtis Kraft flats 1973, 1975, & 1979. During the first couple of years after the split Kurtis and DiMarco boats were almost identical. Ted Faggart drove his own Kurtis Kraft Superstar and Arlens "factory" boat (both UGF)had alot to do with keeping Arlen Kurtis competitive. Ted has been driving forever. He drove unblown gas flats (Kurtis Kraft) throughout the 70's, then BGF, UGH, BGH, and TAH. Arlen also built a center steer flatbottom. It had a cutaway deck in the middle and you sat infront of the V Drive. The weight distribution was a little weird and it didn't catch on. Looked very close to Capsuled flat without the capsule. Arlen came out with the 501 Hydro and the "Airplane", which Eddie Hill made popular, in the late 70's. My buddy at the time, Ken Gibbs, moved from UGF to UGH and ran one the first 501's in 1979 and won the national championship NDBA. The 501's became the Hydro of choice for most. I've been trying to remember who did the molds for the 501, the "Airplane" was I think from Irv Brendell. Jimmy Lareka worked for Arlen and did alot of the layup work for him. Duane and Ron Bolton of Kelron Eng (K boat fame) built a BGH for Gary Kincaid? in the early 80's. They used Arlens "airplane" mold (most thought it was too big for anything less than TFH) put a Balso bottom and a drop thru strut in it, typical circle boat construction. The boat was very light and ran over the national record after a couple of times out.
Sam and Peggy Hondo were very successful during the 70's. The Pete Kaiser built and tuned Crazy Horse(s) with Al Bush at the wheel did alot to help Hondos sales. I don't remember how many BFF's they crashed but it was well over a dozen and I don't remember Al ever getting hurt. Pete did alot of experimenting, bottoms, motor locations, strut angles, you name it. They ran over 180 MPH once in a Blown Fuel Flat and regularly over 165 to 175. I remember Al saying after he retired that the most stable and fastest bottom they ever ran had these outside square runners. I am pretty sure that boat was used for Bitz's molds. It is too bad Rick Bitz is hard to deal with because he has one of the best designed bottoms out there.
Hondo and Brendella were pretty tight. When Sam died Peggy married Irv Brendell, always wondered about that one. Brendella built a large hydro in the early 70's that was popular for TFH. I remember when Irv Brendell came out with the Pickle Winged Flat. Radical new design but it got instant bad publicity when Sam Kurtovich crashed at Oakland. The project was shelved. Somebody took that design and built some in the 80's. I think it was Cougar but I may be wrong.
Cole became very popular in the late 70's and on into the 80's. The TR-2 was Jim's center piece late 70's early 80's, very stable boat. He came out with the TR-3 with more rocker for unblown flat boats. It was faster than the TR-2 but tended to be "flighty". Jim Lange was the shop forman for Cole. Lange left Cole to start HiTech Marine in the mid 80's. Originally Cole just built Flats and decided he needed a Hydro to sell. He traded a TR-2 splash to Sonny Dimarco for a Hydro splash from Sonny. Dimarco had one of the best Hydros at the time. Sonny wanted a newer looking Flat to build. Interesting thing, Sonny modified the TR-2 a little. Gary Pritchard ran this new Dimarco in BFF. It seemed to work better than the Cole he used to run. Wayne Mettler worked for Sonny. About the same time Sonny decided to get out of the business Canyon Marine evolved. Not sure about the details.
There was alot of trading going on. Cheyenne arose in the late 70's with a hydro that looked alot like a Dimarco. Howard Boats wanted an updated flat. Cole wanted a cruiser. Cole traded a TR-2 for one of Howards cruisers. Jack Davidson ended up with a TR-2 bottom one of his Bubble Deck flat versions. Don & Jim Ermshar were Cole regulars and did some very nice installations. The "Elusion" boat was one of their nicest pieces. Don & Jim started Mako boats.
Gotta stop here.
Thanks GM,,,,,,,,

[Hud]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/119LWF0002-med.jpg

[V-Drive Tom]

:confused: What do you want to get going here??
HALF of that is just WRONG... TOM..

[smalls]

Originally posted by V-Drive Tom
:confused: What do you want to get going here??
HALF of that is just WRONG... TOM..
Dive In,, Tom

[FILTHYSLICK]

This seems like it could be a cool thread. Lots of viewing, no input. If I knew the history of some of the builders I would help. Speak up if you were around durring the era.

[BILLY.B]

My gosh Shocker did your finger get tired typing all that stuff?. Pretty interesting, and like V-DRIVE Tom said there are a few things that are just alittle out of context. Ron Bolton and his dad Duane built the hydro for Gary "Mescovich" (sorry for spelling the last name wrong), not Gary Kincaid. Gary Kincaid ran the TAH called Top Gun, and it was a Kurtis. The fastest that Crazy Horse ran was 173, and Al Bush did crash quite a few of them. Does anyone remember the name of his personal fuel flat that he ran for a few races???. And it was Kenny McIntosh that crashed the pickle fork fuel flat called PORKY PIG at Oakland not Sam Kurtovich, that pretty much put an end to that design for "FUEL FLATS"!!!. Sanger was the first one to come out with the pickle fork and the runner bottom, and the bubble deck for that matter. Hondo copied the Sanger idea with the runner bottom, but improved it by widening the center pad. Jim Cole who at one time ran a Hondo then splashed the Hondo and here came the Cole runner bottom, followed by many different bottom designs over the years. Sanger then copied the Cole TR2 runner bottom and put on there new deck with the squared off bubble. Way to much back and forth stuff going on. Now for the circle boat history lesson...LOL:D

[Kindsvater Flat]

What year did the runner did the runner come out?

[dossangers]

who in the 75 artical called Julian a menace and and reckless!! in k boats back then sounds like he had them wondering??

[smalls]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
What year did the runner did the runner come out?
Stuuuddrr typing? Sweet, This may be like the ryming like the ryming,,,lol

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by smalls
Stuuuddrr typing? Sweet, This may be like the ryming like the ryming,,,lol
Its raining and the brain is fogged Smalls.:D

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
What year did the runner did the runner come out? I want to tell you it was around 72 or sevsevsevseventy three. :D

[smalls]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
I want to tell you it was around 72 or sevsevsevseventy three. :D
LOL! YA YA YA SEE WHAT I MEAN??????

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
I want to tell you it was around 72 or sevsevsevseventy three. :D
If Sanger was the first it would have to be before 72. My Kindsvater is a 72 and its a runner bottom.

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
If Sanger was the first it would have to be before 72. My Kindsvater is a 72 and its a runner bottom. Yours is an add on done by Sanger.....LOL :D :D

[Kindsvater Flat]

Chief... Got the clear from that "GUY" to stay at the compound. Thinking of bringing the TIG to weld up some bow planes for a little rise out of that pontoon boat.

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
Yours is an add on done by Sanger.....LOL :D :D
So Harold just nailed on a couple of 1x12's in the middle with some 1x1 strips on the side?
Sounds like something a farmer would do.:D

[smalls]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
Chief... Got the clear from that "GUY" to stay at the compound. Thinking of bringing the TIG to weld up some bow planes for a little rise out of that pontoon boat.
Be Carful at Camp A

[Kindsvater Flat]

Well that "GUY" is married now so I don't need to bring ear plugs for the kid.

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
Well that "GUY" is married now so I don't need to bring ear plugs for the kid. Yeah you do....Need I remind you that Cousin Bob stays there from time to time. And he's been known to rome around in his sleep. SO BE CAREFUL CHIEF !!!:eek:

[smalls]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
Yeah you do....Need I remind you that Cousin Bob stays there from time to time. And he's been known to rome around in his sleep. SO BE CAREFUL CHIEF !!!:eek:
Bubuubububut Pluplpluuuuug

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
Yeah you do....Need I remind you that Cousin Bob stays there from time to time. And he's been known to rome around in his sleep. SO BE CAREFUL CHIEF !!!:eek:
I best be sleepin' with my back in the corner!

[infotraker]

A little off the subject but did anyone know Jack Mottram in the flat racing scene in Ca during the 80's and early ninetees ? He drove Douglas Express (I think a Kurtis). He started with a Schiada in the 70s. I build my 68 Schiada flat in his shop in 68 (still have) and bought my 85 Vette from him in 2000 just before he pasted away from cancer.
Jim

[BOAT ANCHOR]

Before driving Crazy Horse, Al Bush drove his personal Blown Fuel Flat by the name of IRON HORSE. It was a 1974 Kurtis with a bottom that had huge runners (over 1 inch deep). He took over the driving duties on the Crazy Horse boat after Rick Lee (Ski Centurion Fame) flipped/crashed the boat at Long Beach Marine Stadium in 1975. Who is SAM AND PEGGY HONDO???.It was Irv Brendel and his wife Peggy who owned Hondo Boats. It was the Great "Rapid Raymond Caselli" in his Hondo BFF 007 Panic Mouse and all the success the Panic Mouse boat had, as well as some others (Sonny Jones, Del Palmer, Jeff Spitzig, Del Macino, Mike Brendel, Wyane Mettler, Virgil Feilds, Jim Cole) that helped to propel Hondo Boats to the success that they were, LONG BEFORE Al Bush ever got his hands one. After Bush got his hands on one, he certianly contributed to Hondo's sucuess. Howard Brown and Jim Cole never swapped flatbottom and cruiser molds or splashed each others boats. Irv Brendel splashed Howards extremely successful (at the time) hydro (Down n Out) some time in 1971. After Irv introduced the XH-511his FIRST Runner Bottom (HONDO)in late 1971, Howard decided to get back at Irv for splashing his hydro, and splashed Irvs XH-511, and called it the Howard XH-512.Irv and Howard use to place ads in Raceboat and Industry News on oppoising pages advertising their boats.Irvs ad would be on the left page saying "Introducing the new Hondo XH-511", and on the right page Howard's ad would read "Introducing the new Howard XH-512 Tunnel Runner, JUST ONE BETTER." It was a great ad.Wyane Mettler started his boating career at Hondo Boats in the late 1960s/early 70s(he drove Bob And Mona Watts Unblown Fuel Flatbottom "FRANTIC RAT") He was there until 76 or 77, when he went to work for Jim Cole. He didn't stay at Coles very long, and was doing installations out of his house on bare hulls that he purchased from Sonny DiMarco.He called his business Canyon Marine (due to it's location in Canyon Country Ca.) and sometime in the early 80s he purchased Sonny DiMarcos molds (Sonny had to close down his business and sell his molds due to a law suit) moved into a shop and Canyon Marine was under way.

[vdriver4ever]

My brother Mike and I used to help Roy Gollott in the early to mid 70's. He held the BGH record for a long time in "swamp rat". Roy had a shovel nose sanger. Roy came from the e-class eliminator ranks running a stevens in the early 60's. He also popped a mold off the Agua Craft and made Aqua Maid's in the late 60's and 70's and ran some of the early super stock races. Roy also pulled my mom and brother at the ski races in the early 60's with that stevens. All his boats were called Swamp Rat and then he would just as a numeral to the end as he built new ones.

[Jim Hall]

Let's go a further back. I remember the pre fiberglas day's. Barry McGowan (Banzai) (The Thing), do not remember who drove, both Wooden TFH Hallet hydro's. There was also the D&H "sled's that were fun to watch. Another fun one to watch was a green homemade TFH (The Witch with a "B") it had very little freeboard and remember him sinking it on the beach, had a blown Pontiac. The original "Panic Mouse" was a glass Guasti a real handfull to drive, way over powered 16 footer. I also remember Steven's was experimenting with a hydro along with Biesmeyer. It was great back then it seemed like everybody had their own idea of what would work and alot of experimenting going on:)

[haulina29]

The big Kurtis was called a glider not an airplane it was a 500 not a 501 . Eddie hills First texan was a Kindsvater ran as a Kurtis , The glider was a Kindsvater and Hondo before it was a Kurtis , The 501 mold mid size was built at Kurtis by Dale Lambert and Kelly ? at Kurtis, nobody but Kurtis had the 501 until Arlen sold out. During the Kurtis hydro glory days Dale Lambert had as much or more to do with the success of Kurtis as Faggartt . Ted sold alot of boats but Dale made them run. Sam Hondo never heard that one before ? :wink:

[dossangers]

My dad was selling boats for guasti heres onehttp://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/167dad_pic_16.bmp

[ACCEPTENCE]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
Yeah you do....Need I remind you that Cousin Bob stays there from time to time. And he's been known to rome around in his sleep. SO BE CAREFUL CHIEF !!!:eek:
Just Fokin classic, you guys are funny.
It's all good there Chiefys, Fun is good to have and I'm the ring leader in that department. We'll be havin so much fun you'll have to slap the smile off your face when your done.
Oh yeah about Cousin Bob...he's a peach.
He is lookin to spank the Bolt Nazi again!!!!!
Camp Acceptence welcomes all!!!!!

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by BOAT ANCHOR
Before driving Crazy Horse, Al Bush drove his personal Blown Fuel Flat by the name of IRON HORSE. It was a 1974 Kurtis with a bottom that had huge runners (over 1 inch deep). He took over the driving duties on the Crazy Horse boat after Rick Lee (Ski Centurion Fame) flipped/crashed the boat at Long Beach Marine Stadium in 1975. Wrong....Al Bush had been beached for running inside the bouys at Long Beach when Crazy Horse got out of shape at the start and came towards the crowd. Bush restaged the boat and ran inside the bouys to the finish. He was beached for few races and Rick Lee took over the driving duties and promtly flipped the the Horse at the Beach...Rick Lee was a JET boat driver also.

[smalls]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
Wrong....Al Bush had been beached for running inside the bouys at Long Beach when Crazy Horse got out of shape at the start and came towards the crowd. Bush restaged the boat and ran inside the bouys to the finish. He was beached for few races and Rick Lee took over the driving duties and promtly flipped the the Horse at the Beach...Rick Lee was a JET boat driver also.
I did miss on a couple of names. It was Kenny Macintosh not Sam Kurtovich. It was Gary Meskovich not Gary Kincaid. I still am pretty sure Crazy Horse ran once over 180,
GM

[superdave013]

Originally posted by BOAT ANCHOR
Before driving Crazy Horse, Al Bush drove his personal Blown Fuel Flat by the name of IRON HORSE. It was a 1974 Kurtis with a bottom that had huge runners (over 1 inch deep). He took over the driving duties on the Crazy Horse boat after Rick Lee (Ski Centurion Fame) flipped/crashed the boat at Long Beach Marine Stadium in 1975. Who is SAM AND PEGGY HONDO???.It was Irv Brendel and his wife Peggy who owned Hondo Boats. It was the Great "Rapid Raymond Caselli" in his Hondo BFF 007 Panic Mouse and all the success the Panic Mouse boat had, as well as some others (Sonny Jones, Del Palmer, Jeff Spitzig, Del Macino, Mike Brendel, Wyane Mettler, Virgil Feilds, Jim Cole) that helped to propel Hondo Boats to the success that they were, LONG BEFORE Al Bush ever got his hands one. After Bush got his hands on one, he certianly contributed to Hondo's sucuess. Howard Brown and Jim Cole never swapped flatbottom and cruiser molds or splashed each others boats. Irv Brendel splashed Howards extremely successful (at the time) hydro (Down n Out) some time in 1971. After Irv introduced the XH-511his FIRST Runner Bottom (HONDO)in late 1971, Howard decided to get back at Irv for splashing his hydro, and splashed Irvs XH-511, and called it the Howard XH-512.Irv and Howard use to place ads in Raceboat and Industry News on oppoising pages advertising their boats.Irvs ad would be on the left page saying "Introducing the new Hondo XH-511", and on the right page Howard's ad would read "Introducing the new Howard XH-512 Tunnel Runner, JUST ONE BETTER." It was a great ad.Wyane Mettler started his boating career at Hondo Boats in the late 1960s/early 70s(he drove Bob And Mona Watts Unblown Fuel Flatbottom "FRANTIC RAT") He was there until 76 or 77, when he went to work for Jim Cole. He didn't stay at Coles very long, and was doing installations out of his house on bare hulls that he purchased from Sonny DiMarco.He called his business Canyon Marine (due to it's location in Canyon Country Ca.) and sometime in the early 80s he purchased Sonny DiMarcos molds (Sonny had to close down his business and sell his molds due to a law suit) moved into a shop and Canyon Marine was under way.
How's the cruiser comming along?
See ya at the swap meet sunday. :)

[Rexone]

Originally posted by smalls
I did miss on a couple of names. It was Kenny Macintosh not Sam Kurtovich. It was Gary Meskovich not Gary Kincaid. I still am pretty sure Crazy Horse ran once over 180,
GM
I don't remember CH goin that fast. I don't remember the year but Rick Williams Trojan Ghost dragboat (post TG Kboat era) went a 173 or somethin but couldn't back it up for the record at Los Gatos I think (Oneil Forebay near San Luis Res?). That was suposedly the fastest a BFF had run at that time and as I remember (which isn't that well), Bush was about wrapped up with Crazy Horse by then.

[1Bahnerjet]

Boat Anchor,
Wasn't it Hondo and Cole that had a Running Feud ?
Crazy Horse in BOTH ad's
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43BULLSHIT-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/43HDO-med.jpg
Rexone it was Los Banos, O'neill Forebay
Who's Sam Hondo ?

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Originally posted by Rexone
I don't remember CH goin that fast. I don't remember the year but Rick Williams Trojan Ghost dragboat (post TG Kboat era) went a 173 or somethin but couldn't back it up for the record at Los Gatos I think (Oneil Forebay near San Luis Res?). That was suposedly the fastest a BFF had run at that time and as I remember (which isn't that well), Bush was about wrapped up with Crazy Horse by then.
Rex, I interviewed Rick Williams at the 2000 boat racers re-union. He said in the interview that he and partner Richard Bennet with Jerry Hicks driving, ran 173.9 mph at Los Banos on 40% nitro. That was in a Cole.
We also did interviews with Sanger Jack, Schwabby, Nick Barron, Rudy R. and several others. Greg Shoemaker did most of the interviews.
Next time I make a delivery down there Ill bring you a copy. :cool: Jerry

[racingfastflats]

I believe we have discussed this subject in earlier posts about how fast Al Bush has ran in the Crazy Horse. If my memory serves me right, he ran 176 and some change in St. Louis and that was the fastest pass made in a BFF. What's ironic is that a TAF driver has also ran this speed and i believe it was in 95 or 96 up in Red Bluff. You won't need any clues as this team dominated and held both ends of the record in that class . Who was the driver?

[Rexone]

Well 1B at least I had the "Los" and the "forebay" part right... :D
Thanks VDV, I'd like to see that. :)

[haulina29]

Arlen and Sonny were never partners they used the same molds , 176 is the fastest BFF pass and what BillyB says is correct :cool:

[BGMAN203]

Originally posted by racingfastflats
I believe we have discussed this subject in earlier posts about how fast Al Bush has ran in the Crazy Horse. If my memory serves me right, he ran 176 and some change in St. Louis and that was the fastest pass made in a BFF. What's ironic is that a TAF driver has also ran this speed and i believe it was in 95 or 96 up in Red Bluff. You won't need any clues as this team dominated and held both ends of the record in that class . Who was the driver?
That would be the Rick Jackson owned, and Greg Cooper driven Flatzilla TAF

[BOAT ANCHOR]

Billy B;
Before you cry "WRONG", it appears you didn't keep all of your old issues of Race Boat And Industry News.Let me direct your attention to the July 1975 issue, page 25, article entitled "The Worlds Fastest Blown Fuel Flatbottom", by Kevin Spaise.It goes on to say
"It hasn't always been Al Bush in the illuminous Crazy Horse spotlight. The boat debuted at the NDBA National Championships at Long Beach Ca. August 1973, with a daring new comer at the controls - a gutsy guy named RICK LEE who was tabbed by everyone as the next true superstar of dragboat racing. In LEE'S first try at the watery quater he turned a 136 - plus mph run. After winning the prestigious nationals he proceeded to another of the circuits premier events - The 7th Annual Race Boat And Industry News Fuel & Gas World Championships - and won that race hands down.LEE made a name himself and the boat - with consistent wins through that season. But at the end of the year at the Nationals in Long Beach, August 1974 the Cinderella story romance between LEE and Crazy Horse turned into a big fat pumpkin, exactly one year after it began. He got a little out of shape and then a lot out of shape and before he knew it he was on his head.LEE was virtually uninjured physically, but he would never drive a fueler again - at least not the way he wanted to. Pete and Marline Kaiser were devastated at the loss of their boat. They both wanted out of dragboat racing for a little while, but Marline finally talked Pete into another boat. Three weeks later at the next race a unpainted Hondo was towed slowly through the pits. A huge supercharged Chrysler sat between the stringers. It was Crazy Horse ready to run. RICK LEE was also back and wanted back in the boat. After only a half - pass, however LEE and Crazy Horse parted company forever. He couldn't drive it the way he wanted to drive it - so he didn't want to drive it. A frantic request was relayed over the PA system. Crazy Horse needed a driver!!!. The request produced four candidates. Two backed off when they learned their potential ride was a blown fuel flatbottom. Another of the four was totally inexperienced, and the fourth candidate was Al Bush. Bush who had run against the Crazy Horse in earlier days with his own fuel flatbottom ironically tabbed IRON HORSE liked the way Kaiser's Hondo worked. He was a qualified wheel man and he was ready. On October 6, 1974 Bush's first race day in Crazy Horse, he went 151,153, and finally 155.70 mph - a new Kern County Boat Club Record. Less than one month later Bush shattered the NDBA record formerly held by Larry Schwabenland with an amazing 156.25 mph pass. The rest is history".
Billy - you are right about Al Bush being "beached" by the NDBA for running between the buoys and the rocks/beach at Long Beach Marine Stadium. Bush did have to sit out a few races for that stunt. It was an awesome pass, I was at the race and witnessed it. It seemed as though he was only five to eight feet from shore when he made that pass. This happened later in his career around 1976 or 1977. By 1976 Rick Lee (Billy, your right again) was driving a JET BOAT - Peggy Ann Brendel's FACTORY HONDO "K" JET BOAT "HURRY ROUND HONDO" and showing all the vdrive K boats the way around the race course at Lake Ming. The boat was untouchable.

[FLYTE RISK]

WOW I thought Crazy horse went 178M.P.H Oh well I am happy my hondo does an honest 78 !! Hmm Where can I get an extra 100 m.p.h?? Cool thread SmallZZ! :)

[BILLY.B]

I'll have to go back to my old mags and ck this out. All's I remember is the bouy deal and then Rick driving and flipping. Sorry for the "WRONG" word coming on so strong, I must have my dates reversed.

[Rexone]

Get this shit straight Billy. Your words might affect the outcome of world events. :D

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by Rexone
Get this shit straight Billy. Your words might affect the outcome of world events. :D I know, the world get's pretty heavy at times :D :D . As you must know, running that multi "BILLION" dollar a year corporation known as REX MARINE!!!!!:D

[hondo sanger]

:D :D billy is that same rex marine, that is out of catalogue. 365
days year. HA HA AL

[bigkatboat]

Ray Casselli, ran out of Finish Line Engineering. Every type of hull he ran, always had his own (strut, fin) hardware (007), and Finish Line cavitation hardware. I think Ray Capaldi has a 'shot' at the fastest BFF too. Didn't the (all of) Kurtis molds come from Kindsvater originally? (Mako too?). Danny Vachell (sp?) Mr. "T" shirt brought a TR 2 to Howard Brown and wanted to go "light and fast" When you talk about 'drivers of the flat' I must say Jerry 'The Hammer' Hanks took more than his share of punnishment in MR. COLE'S (uncontrolable) POS. In an open boat Kirt Stewart, has the 'touch'. Jimmy Laricca (sp?) was Syndicate Boats. Sorry for the disjointed thoughts, I'm old!

[Kindsvater Flat]

How much was Harold Kindsvater involved in drag boat racing? I keep hearing it come up more and more.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

:eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!:

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by V-DRIVE VIDEO
:eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!: :eek!:
I know he built boats until 80-81. He still builds props for the dragboats. I never heard his name brought up until now with Eddie Hill and so on.

[haulina29]

I dont see any post that ties Eddie Hill to Harold I do see one that says the original Texan was a Kindsvater which is fact . The boat was anchiet when Eddie was running it , I have no clue who rigged it .Dennys t shirt company was called Bootleg not sure what mr t shirt means , Denny worked for Howard for years and I do not what his involvement was in splashing the Cole , Denny was killed driving his Mako called Flat Outta Sight. As far as Casselli goes his early boats were built before finsh line existed and I always thought his boats were factory built Hondo fuelers? I dont dispute that they had some finish line harware in them because I had a late 70s model that was built at the factory and it had some finish line hardware in it , but to say he ran out of finsh line would be a bold statement. please correct me if I am wrong ! Hammer was fun to watch also Toby Slagel and Marvin Savage out of Texas in the Wild Child BAF ;)

[bigkatboat]

Finish Line was started in 1958, Ray and Leonard Fulkerson were friends on and off the track. Ray ran other brands of boat before Hondo's and they too had Finish Line hardware. When Leonard could not make it out to the races, Ray would take the display that had 007, and Finish Line hardware on it, with him. He would set it up and (time permitting) answer questions for potential customers in Leonard's behalf. Everyone knows that the driver's names were tied to the boat brands (in those days) because very little outside sponsorship of drag boats was available. Most owners paid their own way! As the "shoe" pedal was reaching it's limit as to leverage and control, the "Trimetric" type foot control became the 'deal' and with the advent of the 'up pedal', another part of history was written. Many boats over the years have been associated with various brands or products, but with further investgation you will find MANY of those famous names had help from other sources. Often competitors in the same class would help others who were in a 'rough spot' and in turn they would be helped when they needed it. They asked for no recognition for their good deeds, they just wanted good, safe racing. Danny never got to race the boat he wanted from Howard, I don't even think he saw the first hull out of the mold. Sorry for the error on the 'T' shirt deal, I used Steve Loporccio and didn't really know Danny.

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by haulina29
I dont see any post that ties Eddie Hill to Harold I do see one that says the original Texan was a Kindsvater which is fact . The boat was anchiet when Eddie was running it , I have no clue who rigged it .Dennys t shirt company was called Bootleg not sure what mr t shirt means , Denny worked for Howard for years and I do not what his involvement was in splashing the Cole , Denny was killed driving his Mako called Flat Outta Sight. As far as Casselli goes his early boats were built before finsh line existed and I always thought his boats were factory built Hondo fuelers? I dont dispute that they had some finish line harware in them because I had a late 70s model that was built at the factory and it had some finish line hardware in it , but to say he ran out of finsh line would be a bold statement. please correct me if I am wrong ! Hammer was fun to watch also Toby Slagel and Marvin Savage out of Texas in the Wild Child BAF ;)
Denny Vachal's new lightweight boat crashed final round Red Bluff 1986.

[haulina29]

Ray did have a couple anchient flats in the early days from the mid sixties on Ray only ran Hondos . I remember the finsh line displays well they didnt start showing up till 69 or 70 the display that is . When i was a kid i used to push the pedals in the display and steal the stickers . By the way the hardware in my hondo was marked 007 also a finish line trade mark .I have an awsome autographed picture from Ray that he did for me at the stadium in 69 . it hangs on the wall in my office . Yes Denny was killed at Redbluff as stated the boat was fairly new but it did have several races behind it , the boat previous was a Howard also named Flat Outta Sight . Dennys stuff was first class even by todays standards he ran baddass all aluminum hemis polished to the max , Vale paint on the truck, trailer, boat etc first class all the way Denny was a big loss . :)

[OutCole'd]

What about the Deaver Hulls? Nitro Express & Nitro Bandit and Billy the Kid? Not to mention lots of others. When I was going to the drags, in the 80's they were always competitive.

[haulina29]

Brad Tuttle and Bill Todd kicked butt in Deavers , The Nitro Express I remeber was a Kurtis driven by Brads brother Dexter Tuttle , anybody remeber Dexter running over 200 on a liscense pass in Nitro Express and putting it on the beach at the far end Ming? ;)

[OutCole'd]

Originally posted by haulina29
Brad Tuttle and Bill Todd kicked butt in Deavers , The Nitro Express I remeber was a Kurtis driven by Brads brother Dexter Tuttle , anybody remeber Dexter running over 200 on a liscense pass in Nitro Express and putting it on the beach at the far end Ming? ;)
Yea, I remember, I was there. I grew up with Cliff Deaver, Gene's Son. And you are right about Dexter.

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by haulina29
Ray did have a couple anchient flats in the early days from the mid sixties on Ray only ran Hondos . I remember the finsh line displays well they didnt start showing up till 69 or 70 the display that is . When i was a kid i used to push the pedals in the display and steal the stickers . By the way the hardware in my hondo was marked 007 also a finish line trade mark .I have an awsome autographed picture from Ray that he did for me at the stadium in 69 . it hangs on the wall in my office . Yes Denny was killed at Redbluff as stated the boat was fairly new but it did have several races behind it , the boat previous was a Howard also named Flat Outta Sight . Dennys stuff was first class even by todays standards he ran baddass all aluminum hemis polished to the max , Vale paint on the truck, trailer, boat etc first class all the way Denny was a big loss . :) Denny's last boat was a Mako as stated but only had a few laps on it. I painted the last one and I remember when we were rubbing the boat out how much it flexed. Denny did have first class stuff, in fact we painted the trailer to match the boat exactly.:cool:

[Kurtis500]

Originally posted by haulina29
Brad Tuttle and Bill Todd kicked butt in Deavers , The Nitro Express I remeber was a Kurtis driven by Brads brother Dexter Tuttle , anybody remeber Dexter running over 200 on a liscense pass in Nitro Express and putting it on the beach at the far end Ming? ;)
I thought that particular boat was called the 'Crusader Rabbit'

[haulina29]

Billy I appolgize for that as soon as I saw your name it hit me that you had painted the last boat and it was awsome ! Wouldnt you say along with Dago Red probably one of the nicest built in that era . I had gone down and picked up some shirts and coat s the week before he was killed we went to lunch and ran over to KB,S and that was the last time i saw, him truly a messed up deal . Anyways Billy that trailer was bad ass just my 0.2 ;)

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by haulina29
Billy I appolgize for that as soon as I saw your name it hit me that you had painted the last boat and it was awsome ! Wouldnt you say along with Dago Red probably one of the nicest built in that era . I had gone down and picked up some shirts and coat s the week before he was killed we went to lunch and ran over to KB,S and that was the last time i saw, him truly a messed up deal . Anyways Billy that trailer was bad ass just my 0.2 ;) No need to apologize, Dick Vale had painted alot of stuff for Denny and had always done a great job. Denny was just after a different look and we hooked up. Denny was really after detail and hidden stuff in the paint job, plus his exact words to me were "I WANT IT TO LOOK SUPER CLEAN AND FAST, KINDA LIKE A FUNNY CAR PAINT JOB". I loved the polished block. And I think your right, Denny and Dago Red always had BITCHEN stuff. Do remember a boat racer named Danny Fox??. His boat was called War Paint, and it was raced in the late 70's early 80's and it would of held up against any of the above boats. Brodie would of loved it, it was a SANGER with the squared of deck on the drivers side.

[jgxxx69]

You guys seem to know alot about flattys! Maybe you could help me out?I've got an 1970 18' aquacraft w/casale v-drive and bbc. I've been told that it was one of the fastest boats in parker during its time, but who knows, you know how people talk. Anyways , I was wondering if anybody knew anything about the hull and the manufacture. I can't seem to find anything about it. Any help would be greatful. I'll be in Laughlin on 1-15-2004 w/the boat, I want to take it out a couple of times before it goes up for sale.

[LakesOnly]

I hope you're all sitting down.....
Today, Sonny Dimarco sells backhoes in Northern California.:frown:
Had I picked up Earmshar's Dimarco in Oregon, my ideal hopes were to leave it with Sonny for a while for a little "factory clean-up work of the hull"....a pretty outlandish thing to ask of him, I know...
LO

[garrett]

jgxx69
I believe Aquacraft is a fiberglass Wickens. Wickens is one of the original builders of highperformance boats. He built all wood flatbottom's, hydroplanes. Some say he built some of the best boats in his day. I believe dating back to the 40's.

[vdriver4ever]

Skip Volk made the first 17 ft Aqua Craft and then later came the 18 ft. Fred Wickens made the wooden Wickens and then later I think Skip made the fiberglass splash off the wood Wickens. They were manufactured as two different hulls. Not one replacing the other.
There was a lot of races won by Skip and several others in the Aqua Crafts. The 17ft was one of the best turning boats in it''s day. That being mid to late 60's. I think the 18ft came along about the late 60's and early 70's.
Stan Drake raced a 17ft Aqua Craft in those days and did real well. He now lives in Havasu but says he was the guy to beat on the Parker Strip back then.
My dad built several Aqua Crafts and Wickens out of Don Minegar Custom Boats and before that Walley and Minegar Custom Boats out of the Bay Area.

[coolchange]

Today, Sonny Dimarco sells backhoes in Northern California.
and its my understanding he still has a 21 in the garage, never had a hole put in it.

[garrett]

Bob Garner in his Blown Gas Miller flat racing Ray Caselli's Blown Fuel Hondo panic mouse in eliminations 1967.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/723bobgarnerpanicmouse.jpg

[coolchange]

Friend of mine had a Panic Mouse boat n the 70s. Red and gold flake one. Wish I knew where it was now. Hey does this mean I can say I drove Panic Mouse?

[garrett]

Hal Holt in his unblown miller flatbottom eliminated all his competitors in Marine Stadium 1962. This picture shows him in a dead heat with a blown (fuel?) sanger flat. They raced again, hal holt won. He was suppose to race a blown fuel sanger hydro but the hydro broke something on the way to the starting line. Needless to say Holt had a terrific day at the drags
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/10351035R001-002-med.jpg

[Fired Up]

I sat my uncle down for a bit today. This is one of his many stories of racing in its infancy. I really should write or audiotape everything, its great to hear him tell them. The first Parker 9 hour enduro Ray caselli, my two uncles, mace ryan and several other friends entered a Guasti with a pontiac in it. They finished seventh despite a breakdown. About 1960. The next year ray had a Guasti with a blown oldsmobile and tall gears in it. He put in these big fuel tanks and figured he'd get out in front of everybody then just cruise the whole race. It seems alot of others hasd the same idea, it turned into a 15 mile drag race to the dam when others had the same idea. He didn't finish the race. There are lot more stories my uncle has that are first hand accounts...but his memory is fading fast with all the details.
here is the next one....i got him talking now. My uncles first boat was a guasti, another uncle flipped it at the drags in Bakersfield when the prop shaft came loose. My uncle was fine. he had seen a hondo and asked ray to build one for him. It was 1966. ray asked my uncle how fast he wanted to go, my uncle said 90mph, but it was to be used as a ski boat. So they built this flat with a STOCK 427 and a holley 850. the motor came from a wrecked corvette. the only modification they made was to put in a standard dual point distributor in place of the electronic ignition. They took it the the drags at bakersfield to clock it and it did 92mph off the trailer........That was 1966. Hondos took off after that.

[garrett]

Article about Bob Garner in his Miller Flatbotto
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/723newsgarner2-med.jpg

[garrett]

Bob Garner winning the 1968 NDBA Nationals.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/723nba_garner2-med.jpg

[garrett]

Bob Garner in his miller flatbottom 1967.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/723miller_flat-med.jpg

[garrett]

Boat Drags 1967. Bob Garner and his miller bottom left.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/7231967races-med.jpg

[garrett]

1967 Boat Names
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/7231967dragsshirt.jpg

[garrett]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/7231967drags.jpg

[coolchange]

Second shirt down on the right "ONDALAY". I used to own that boat. John Anons ride. JDA "J drains" as they used to be called.

[garrett]

coolchange,
damn, thats cool. so how was it driving panic mouse?

[jgxxx69]

Thanks for the help. I've been looking for info. under wickens and aquacraft but still can't find out any info. I'll be trying to post some pictures up in the next couple of days to see if anybody recognizes the boat. I think it still has the o.g. paint on it w/the name (andiamo), which who knows what that means?

[bigkatboat]

Ray Casselli did run Guasti's and I think one other brand? (before going Hondo), but what the hell. I only 'officially' got involved in 1976 ( racing boats since 1969). By the way, 007 was RAY"S brand name! I'll sit back and let you tell me about the company history, of Finish Line Engineering. Then I'll tell YOU about it's future.;) P S, if we need any input (true history) from Stanley Drake, I'll ask him to respond. He is a local friend and has a world of information that is truly remarkable.

[bigkatboat]

I would like to find an ALL GLASS Bob Warren Hurricane. I feel they were the most WELL FINISHED hulls around So. Calif. in the 60's and 70's. I had a S--t load of flat bottoms back then, but my Hurricane was the boat I loved the best, it NEVER had any cracks, even after I sold it (6 years later) the next two owners reported no cracks. All my friends said it looked like an 'old boat' just before I "blew by them" with my single carb, 510 Chevy. I've had blown 'runners' and all the rest, but that Hurricane was the "best boat" I ever had, I wish I had not sold it! (kicking myself while typing) Thank you Bob, and Steve!

[garrett]

This is the second unblown gas miller to hit the 100 mark. The first was Ed Johnson's unblown gas miller in 1959, he was running a SEVEN DEGREE strut and was covered in hot rod magazine. We wish we still had the article. The boat was a little to loose. so Dave stuck with 9 degree struts in his flatbottoms for a safer ride.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/518/1035halholt-med.jpg

[coolchange]

coolchange,
damn, thats cool. so how was it driving panic mouse?
When I drove it it had a carbed Chevy w/ot's, skiin at Castaic. Now that I think about it, that was the first flat I ever drove.

[garrett]

jgxxx69
I don't know if this helps but I found this ad.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/723aquacraft.jpg