496HO or HP500 ???? [Archive]

OutCole'd

12-10-2003, 09:42 PM

I am just poor white trash, the 525 is just a stones throw out of budget.
And Kiltroy, I am have narrowed it down to the last two, I want to see a cat fight between them.

Boozer

12-10-2003, 09:47 PM

I heard the 496HO has a lot of problems. But then again I heard a lot of incorrect info from the same source so who knows.
I was lookin at somethin with a 496 mag and asked about the HO was told the 496 mag is more realiable then HO.
Who knows? I'm sure someone does but I sure don't.
Isn't the HP500 actually a better motor for beefin up then the 496HO?

OutCole'd

12-10-2003, 09:49 PM

Originally posted by DogHouse
496HO, whipple, headers. That should use up the extra 9k that's burning that hole in your pocket and run substantially better than the 500hp.
:D
What does it cost to put a Whipple or Procharger on this motor?

Kilrtoy

12-10-2003, 09:53 PM

Isn't the HP500 actually a better motor for beefin up then the 496HO?
That is what I hear from the experts.
Top speed is usually only a few more miles an hour.
BUT the OH SHIT factor is what makes the price increase worth it.
A mustang goes 0-60 in 6 flat
a Cobra goes 0-60 in 4.3
that is what you pay for......

Boozer

12-10-2003, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by OutCole'd
What does it cost to put a Whipple or Procharger on this motor?
Less then it will cost to keep replacing the outdrives that the blown 496 will probably destory??? :confused:

Havasu Hangin'

12-10-2003, 09:58 PM

For an alternative...I'd look at a Phaff motor...for the same money, I bet you could get 100 more HP.
Teague makes a 620...I bet it's around the same price (1 year warranty).
Merc stuff is expensive ($/HP).
Just a thought.

DogHouse

12-10-2003, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by OutCole'd
What does it cost to put a Whipple or Procharger on this motor?
The whipple kit with intercooler and all the extra goodies to make the efi work is in the neighborhood of $7k +/-, depending on whether you want it polished or not. If you pay someone else to install it, you'd be pretty close to your limit. They state that it brings the 496 up to something like 625hp.
HH is right, you could also look into a complete engine from one of the high-perf shops and see how much the boat builder will deduct for the Merc engine. Everyone has their favorite shop, mine is Larry's down in Tucson.

Boozer

12-10-2003, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by DogHouse
The whipple kit with intercooler and all the extra goodies to make the efi work is in the neighborhood of $7k +/-, depending on whether you want it polished or not. If you pay someone else to install it, you'd be pretty close to your limit. They state that it brings the 496 up to something like 625hp.
HH is right, you could also look into a complete engine from one of the high-perf shops and see how much the boat builder will deduct for the Merc engine. Everyone has their favorite shop, mine is Larry's down in Tucson.
Taking what dog house said into consideration I am curious as to what they are going to charge you for the motor.
Infomaniac can build you a quad rotor whippled 540 for like 25K. Thats a LOT of bang for the buck. Just be ready to burn up a lot of race gas and blow up a lot of drives. You could drive like a chick and baby the throttle but what fun would that be?

Rivertoys

12-10-2003, 11:21 PM

500HP, it only hurts until it's all paid for, but you can enjoy it forever..... ;)
RTJas :D

Kilrtoy

12-10-2003, 11:26 PM

500HP, it only hurts until it's all paid for, but you can enjoy it forever.....
OR UNTIL YOU DIE
HELL YA

Boozer

12-10-2003, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
500HP, it only hurts until it's all paid for, but you can enjoy it forever.....
OR UNTIL YOU DIE
HELL YA
Or till the bank wants it back.....
Either way go for it.
You only live once. The repo man wont follow you to the grave.

Kilrtoy

12-10-2003, 11:47 PM

You only live once
Dont ever forget that

Essex502

12-11-2003, 07:00 AM

What's the price diff on the 525 versus the hp500? Factor the diff in a 15 yr loan and how much extra a month would that be? $40 for a $5k diff on a 15 yr loan at 6.50%????

THOR

12-11-2003, 07:07 AM

Go with HH's idea. For about the same money you can get a 540 GT motor with about 620HP. Beachbum runs that motor and is really happy with it. His boat hauls ass too.

Tremor Therapy

12-11-2003, 07:28 AM

I personally did not go with the HP500, but upgraded my drive and tab package, and added a whole bunch of other goodies that ended up at about the same 9k difference.
The drive upgrade will help when I decide to hop up the 496 magho with more power. Now if I am correct, the HP500 does not have closed cooling, but like Kilrtoy stated, the woody factor is certainly there.
Knowing what I know now, if I had to do it all over again, I would have paid the extra and gotten the 525, but I have had ZERO problems with my motor/outdrive package.

Freak

12-11-2003, 07:36 AM

Originally posted by Boozer
Or till the bank wants it back.....
Either way go for it.
You only live once. The repo man wont follow you to the grave.
But your credit score will.

cola

12-11-2003, 07:51 AM

Who needs tabs, get the HP500. Add the small stuff as you go. Remember it's hobby.
Later, Mike

Havasu_Dreamin

12-11-2003, 07:59 AM

Go with the HP500, better torque and mid-range from what I understand. Yes, the HP500 does not have closed cooling, but if you boat exclusively on the river/lakes I don't think it's a huge problem. The insurance with an HP525 is astronomical! I've heard as much as double, sometimes triple, what you can insure an HP500 for.
Also, if for some reason you ever have to sell the boat, the re-sale with the HP500 is probably better than with the 496 HO becasue of the HP and torque difference.

Havasu Cig

12-11-2003, 08:40 AM

Don't forget you can buy extended warranties on the Merc packages.
I bought an additional 4 years past the one year I was given on the motors and drives.
I have owned the boat for two years and just broke a drive, and it is covered under warranty. That is nice to say the least.
The hp 500's we are running have been bullet proof. I have heard of people putting a lot of hours on them, and running them very hard for extended periods of time without failures.
Untill we broke the drive a couple of weeks ago this boat has never broken on us. This is the first boat I can say that about. it is nice putting the boat back on the trailer after a weekend and not have to drive it back to the shop.
Pfaff also has a package that will give the HP 500, 600 hp. If we keep this boat for a while I think I might go this route. Something to think about. I don't know how far you can reliably go with the 496. My.02

BADBLOWN572

12-11-2003, 08:47 AM

STAY AWAY FROM PUTTING A BLOWER ON A 496!!! Guaranteed if you put a blower on the 496 you will either push out a head gasket within the first 15 hours or drop a rod. The 496 is good for what is was designed for, but the parts are not all that great. They work well as built, but don't put more power to the motor. IF you are going to go with the 500hp you can get away with a blower. They are a much better motor in terms of parts and the way they are assembled. From what I understand, the difference between the 525 and 500hp is that the 525 has a closed cooling system which the 500hp does not. Additionally the 525 has had some head work done resulting in the increasted horse power.

roln 20s

12-11-2003, 08:48 AM

check out arizonaspeed and marine. They are the ones that Merc and Pfaff buy their EFI manifolds from and they now make one for the 496Ho that boosts power to the 550hp area--so far, no problems at all. I believe it was only a 3-5K system. Definately something to check out--tons of R&D from them.
Not a bad cost increase for that power either.
Otherwise- HP500, whipple down the road. It just has better internals. I also hear they are bullet proof. And those extended warranties like Havasu Cig is talking about would definately be something to check on.
Roln 20s

Dave C

12-11-2003, 08:51 AM

HP 500 has much better internals in it. Its better for blower & other upgrades.
496 HO has slightly cheaper internals. I wouldn't put a blower on the 496. But thats just me.:D If something fails inside the 496 from a blower, that will significantly cut into the cost savings.
I still think your money is better spent aftermarket. For $20,000 you can get more power than mercruiser and end up with a MUCH better motor.
But if your looking to stay stock, go with a 496HO.
BTW Pfaff is freaking expensive but they got some nice stuff.

bear down

12-11-2003, 08:52 AM

On my last trip to Havasu I met some guy (local) who builds motors (can't remember his name). He was very anti-whipple and pro charger. He said the best way to increase power on an engine is to turbo charge it. Is this true?

jackpunx

12-11-2003, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by THOR
Go with HH's idea. For about the same money you can get a 540 GT motor with about 620HP. Beachbum runs that motor and is really happy with it. His boat hauls ass too.
620? Hauls Ass?.. That will go away in about 2 months.. After someone passes you.:D At least that is the way it is for most of us.
Make sure you get the drive to support the power.. The GT 540 is a great base model for a quad rotor.. When your ready to step
up.:D
Not sure about the Turbo. But I understand that it dose not stress the motor out as much and is quiet. If I saw more of them I would think they are the answer.. but I see mostly S/C applications..

prosthogod

12-11-2003, 09:07 AM

I've been told if you put a blower with more than 2.5 lbs. of boost you will create enough HP to blow the pistons. If you do pistons, rods, etc. it will be ~15,000. to get you to 600+ HP and be safe. You better at that point already have an XR drive. You can add a new injection system, computer change and air cleaner for ~4,000. that will put you to 530 HP.:D :D

BADBLOWN572

12-11-2003, 09:11 AM

Turbos are great for efficiency, but I am not a big fan of them overall. They are usually bulky, have lag, get hot, and parts are not readily available. 90% of turbo packages are not standard. They are built for the motor in question. There is no place you could call up and order a turbo setup for a 500hp. I like the whipple chargers personally. They are compact, easy to install, instant, and deliver great power. They are more pricy than the Pro Chargers, but I believe that they are an overall better package. My next boat is going to have twin 525's which I will run for a year, then bolt on whipples to get to about 750hp a piece.

OutCole'd

12-11-2003, 09:55 AM

I am going with the XR drive already. So I would be ready for more power when ready. I have also heard from lots of peeps that are using Prochargers or Whipples with very little boost and having no problems for many years. Anyone here running a 496 with a small charger? How is it for you?

BADBLOWN572

12-11-2003, 10:23 AM

Out, like I said, the 496 does not like a charger at all. I know of two people personally who have had major problems with the procharger on the 496. Each time it cost several thousand dollars to fix. I spoke to the engine builder at GS Marine about the 496 and he said that they are fine as long as you don't put a blower on them. They said that it is great for their business because to tear down a motor with a procharger and rebuild it costs some bucks. Don't do it!

THOR

12-11-2003, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by prosthogod
I've been told if you put a blower with more than 2.5 lbs. of boost you will create enough HP to blow the pistons. If you do pistons, rods, etc. it will be ~15,000. to get you to 600+ HP and be safe. You better at that point already have an XR drive. You can add a new injection system, computer change and air cleaner for ~4,000. that will put you to 530 HP.:D :D
Where can I get more info on this intake conversion for the 496? I would like to see this.
:D

jackpunx

12-11-2003, 10:33 AM

Are you choosing these engines because of the warranties?.. If you add a blower.. You will void it.. If you know your going to want more power.. Do it now.... Your rigger will install any motor. You could get a GT 540 .. or even a 582 with close to the same HP as a blown hp500. I have the hp500.. I love this motor... I voided the warranty on it months after I got it. Ive put 45hrs on the motor with out an issue. Take a ride in some boats with the power you are thinking about.. Damm I'll take you for a ride.. I may even let you drive.. Just dont screw yourself with a bad base motor... Not saying the 496 is bad.. Just saying it is not a good base for additional power.

Kilrtoy

12-11-2003, 10:35 AM

You still havent told us what Boat your getting
the 496 (MAY) be okay......
Depends on the size of the boat.....

jackpunx

12-11-2003, 10:38 AM

16' pickle might work

OutCole'd

12-11-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
You still havent told us what Boat your getting
the 496 (MAY) be okay......
Depends on the size of the boat.....
28' Deck

jackpunx

12-11-2003, 11:04 AM

PM "relaxalot" he has the same boat..he has had it for less then a year and is adding power.. You should talk to him.

Essex502

12-12-2003, 07:36 AM

I was at T**** M**** a month or so ago when a guy with a deck boat came in who had put a Procharger on a 496 and was having all kinds of problems with it. While I was there he upped for having motor built by them and ripping out the Procharged 496. Go with the HP500 at least or better yet the 525 for the closed cooling.

dr. margarita

12-12-2003, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by OutCole'd
28' Deck
Hey OutCole'd, Met a guy at the Nautical over Thanksgiving with a 28" Conquest deck. He has an HP500 in it with 10lbs of Whipple boost. He's running 90mph plus!!! He stated he has over 200 hours on this set-up, problem free. Run the HP500 for a year, you'll have great internals to bump it.

Steamin' Rice

12-12-2003, 11:01 AM

It depends on your budget...If the $$ to go for the HP500EFI is in the budget I would say to definitely go for it. It's a great turn-key package that should not give you any problems, plus like others have said you can add a whipple or procharge to it down the road if you decide you want more power.
It doesn't seem like the blower kits for the 496 have been completely worked out, because I seem to hear mixed results from people who have added one of them to the 496.
For resae, you will probably do best with a merc package over a motor from a different builder, but if you're not going to be selling the boat fr awhile, a pacakage from somebody like Teague, Pfaff, etc could be interesting....

Ducatista

12-12-2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by OutCole'd
If there is a 9k bump for the HP500, which motor do you go with and why? A 9k jump to the 500hp is hard to swallow even though its an awsome motor, but not much HP gain. I think the 525 is a better deal if you can swing it. Otherwise the suggestions at looking into the 540 motor packages are right on, they will put you in the 600 to 650 HP range with no boost depending on what 540 you go with. Its a candy store out there...good luck with your decision and new boat.

Havasu Hangin'

12-12-2003, 01:21 PM

The thing to remember about the Merc is that there is no "magic dust applied".
I believe the 496 long blocks are bought from GM's truck division and marinized. Still a GM product.
The 500's (and up) are bought from multiple vendors (including aftermarket) and assembled by Mercury's "Racing Division". They try to guard thier secret recipes, but the parts are off the shelf. For example, they use a Crane cam anyone can buy.
IMO, Mercury Racing is pricing themselves out of the game, when you compare apples to apples. It would be interesting to go to a couple builders, and price out the same equipment and performance. A warranty is a warranty.
Is it worth the extra money? Like everone said, it depends on what you're gonna do with it. Blue paint is very expensive.

Havasu Cig

12-12-2003, 02:19 PM

Merc stands behind their products...
I had a motor (500 efi) that was down on rpm's a couple hundred at WOT. After checking the props, Tach ect..Merc sent out a whole new long block. I don't know how many custom builders would do that. Maybe there are some out there, but Merc got me back on the water fast.

BADBLOWN572

12-12-2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by dr. margarita
Hey OutCole'd, Met a guy at the Nautical over Thanksgiving with a 28" Conquest deck. He has an HP500 in it with 10lbs of Whipple boost. He's running 90mph plus!!! He stated he has over 200 hours on this set-up, problem free. Run the HP500 for a year, you'll have great internals to bump it.
I too would agree that you should run the 500HP for a year, break it in, and once the warranty is over, put a whipple on it. I know from personal experience that they are easy to install. When we did one in a party cat for Carrera, I took it out to Elsinore and it did 94mph on GPS. Not bad for a party cat! The beauty of the 500hp is that it shifts in and out of gear easily and comes with all of the good components.
When it comes to other motor builders such as Teague and Pfaff, do they offer packages that include the drive or is it motor only? I know that the gimbal, steering, and drive is approx 50% of the cost of a Mercury package.

Havasu Hangin'

12-12-2003, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by BADBLOWN572
When it comes to other motor builders such as Teague and Pfaff, do they offer packages that include the drive or is it motor only?
Yeah...I'm pretty sure they do. My buddy bought a Teague 620 package that included a Teague Platinum drive...pumps, steering, etc.
As a matter of fact, wasn't there a Hot Boat writeup on a Merc Hallet vs a "non-Merc" (Phaff) Hallet?
I think the non-Merc was cheaper and faster, with the same warranty.

OutCole'd

12-14-2003, 07:40 PM

With a 3k difference between the HP500 and the HP525, I am leaning towards the 525.
I will have to call Teague, and find out the pricing on a package from them.

Kilrtoy

12-14-2003, 07:56 PM

This has turned out to be a great topic........
I would love to hear more.......

C-2

12-14-2003, 09:14 PM

Try Pfaff and Fred Inman from Imco; they have a fuel injected motor and drive package for about the same price as a HP500, but the motor puts out about just below 600hp. The motor looks like a HP500 EFI, you have to do a double take to see the difference. They also put a year warranty on both.
I talked to them about this package at the past two boat shows. I wasn't shopping for a package, so I'm not sure what drive it is. Its only a phone call, or wait until the boat show; they're both very approachable, willing to talk and cap on each other non-stop.

Havasu_Dreamin

12-15-2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by OutCole'd
With a 3k difference between the HP500 and the HP525, I am leaning towards the 525.
I will have to call Teague, and find out the pricing on a package from them.
I would check with your insuracne first. The change from the 500 to the 525 may have a negative impact on the cost of your insurance.