Boat Cop --- What Gives !!!!!

[Rock-it man]

Hey Boatcop have seen your posts sometimes what do you think of the new law and how is it going to be enforced and is there anything we can do !!!!!! as a group. I have mufflers (Gattlins) on a blown 598 and it still wont meet that law !!!!!!

[BADBLOWN572]

Don't act like a dipshit and usually you will not have a problem. I have been pulled over 3x and never given a ticket. Loose your head and your ass will follow.

[Havasu Cig]

According to the article in ***boat Arizona will not be recognizing the new noise restrictions of 88 dba 39" from the transom. The problem though is that the river / lake shares a border with California which can enforce the law anywhere on the river / lake.:mad:

[boatnam2]

boy i think that switchable exhaust is finally going to pay off.

[Havasu Cig]

Originally posted by boatnam2
boy i think that switchable exhaust is finally going to pay off.
Swithable exhaust is illegal as well:frown:

[Boatcop]

According to the article in ***boat Arizona will not be recognizing the new noise restrictions of 88 dba 39" from the transom.
True.
We will still be going by the current Arizona Law, 86 dba @ 50 feet.
I'd like to know who (if anyone) has received a ticket from SBCSO for loud exhaust on the River or Lake, specifically for exceeding the noise level. (not for "no mufflers")
The number of responses I get (if any) will show how much you guys really have to worry about the new California Levels.

[Kilrtoy]

I think That law sucks.
It is from the tree huggers.

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by Havasu Cig
Swithable exhaust is illegal as well:frown:
I read that too. I bet IMCO silent choices can be bought for real cheap.:)

[Mandelon]

I'm gonna get some 3" or 4" Rubber 90* elbows, like they use for plumbing, see. Then I'm gonna get some straight pipe, see. Then I'm gonna duct tape it all together, see. Gonna stick it on my exhaust, OK?
The pipe's will be like 2 feet long, see. Then I'll duct tape it some more so that the exhaust comes out waaaaaay under water so my boat'll be reeeeeeaaaaallllll quiet. Then by the time it falls off I'll be looong gone. Yup, that's my plan. :rolleyes: :D :D

[fourspeednup]

Any possibility to incorporate WD-40 in there somewhere? If so, you're set.:D

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Mandelon
I'm gonna get some 3" or 4" Rubber 90* elbows, like they use for plumbing, see. Then I'm gonna get some straight pipe, see. Then I'm gonna duct tape it all together, see. Gonna stick it on my exhaust, OK?
The pipe's will be like 2 feet long, see. Then I'll duct tape it some more so that the exhaust comes out waaaaaay under water so my boat'll be reeeeeeaaaaallllll quiet. Then by the time it falls off I'll be looong gone. Yup, that's my plan. :rolleyes: :D :D
Yeah, you could make your pipes so long someone else will get the ticket for the loud bubbles...:D

[phebus]

Originally posted by Mandelon
I'm gonna get some 3" or 4" Rubber 90* elbows, like they use for plumbing, see. Then I'm gonna get some straight pipe, see. Then I'm gonna duct tape it all together, see. Gonna stick it on my exhaust, OK?
The pipe's will be like 2 feet long, see. Then I'll duct tape it some more so that the exhaust comes out waaaaaay under water so my boat'll be reeeeeeaaaaallllll quiet. Then by the time it falls off I'll be looong gone. Yup, that's my plan. :rolleyes: :D :D
Dude, that is bad ass, yea, screw the cops, yea, cool......:D :D
Mandelon, your killing me.....

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by phebus
Dude, that is bad ass, yea, screw the cops, yea, cool......:D :D
Mandelon, your killing me.....
Geeze dude, maybe there is a business plan in here somewhere. Pipes R Us?
We could use the negative pressure of the water pulling on the pipes so the faster you go the better your engine will run. Who knows, maybe like 20 feet of stainless steel pipe with a few 90s in it might be really cool..
Might even get it to help steer the boat too. Put on a ball joint in the pipe and a hydraulic cylinder...cool!!:D

[phebus]

"Custom Pipes R Us"...........:D

[HCS]

I wouldn't want to be a boat cop. You'd have to enforce all the
STUPID!
commie laws that are put into place.:rolleyes:
Folsom lake in California is one of the worst. They might as well
make that lake into rowboats only. like there doing with most of the lakes in California.:mad:
No gas powered boats.
No dogs.
No tubing.
No skiing.
No trolling.
No skin.
No alcohol.
No fires.
No 4wd's
No fishing from the dam.
No!
No!
NO!

[phebus]

They don't make the rules, just enforce them. I respect everything they do. Stupid rules or not, our waters are safer. God Bless.

[superdave013]

A nice set of turbo mufflers will do the trick. Yup, some inovative turbo TO 4's is what I'm gonna use. :D

[HBjet]

Originally posted by Boatcop
True.
We will still be going by the current Arizona Law, 86 dba @ 50 feet.
I'd like to know who (if anyone) has received a ticket from SBCSO for loud exhaust on the River or Lake, specifically for exceeding the noise level. (not for "no mufflers")
The number of responses I get (if any) will show how much you guys really have to worry about the new California Levels.
I never rec'd a ticket, but my second to last trip to Parker this year I was stopped and checked for noise. According to the officer I blasted past the station going WAY too fast so I got lectured about the crash at Red Rock 3 weeks prior and was asked if I wanted to end up like that. I admit, I was traveling faster then I would on a lake, but there was only one other boat around at the time, and it was a Hallett 270 that was pacing me. We where going probably 65-70mph. He never got stopped. Anyways, I was checked for DB noise, and at idle I was at 93db and at 4000 rpm 104db. So I was asked to leave and not to come back unless I had mufflers.
I was happy about not getting a ticket, and what surprised me was I wasn't checked for proper floatation devices, fire extinguisher, alcohol on my breath. Heck, I didn't even have any flame arrestors in my scoop! Other then that and the mufflers, I would have passed everything else. Being stopped sucked, but I just played cool with the officer, and he was cool with me.
I don't know if I will take my boat to Parker again though because running mufflers sucks. And there are plenty of 100k boats out there with thru transom which are just as loud in my opinion.
HBjet

[STV_Keith]

Typical Kalifornia...if it's fun, tax it or ban it.

[Essex502]

Originally posted by STV_Keith
Typical Kalifornia...if it's fun, tax it or ban it.
Hmmmm, Keith...I think the same thing has been happening at Mead too. Also, I believe Nevada now uses the J2005 stationary test for its noise law. Most states will end up with it.
What are you worried about with yyour MixMaster? :D

[Jrocket]

Originally posted by HBjet
I don't know if I will take my boat to Parker again though because running mufflers sucks. And there are plenty of 100k boats out there with thru transom which are just as loud in my opinion.
HBjet
SWEET!!! It will be getting less and less crowded then.Oh and thanks for the comment on the thru transom......I like'um.:D

[carbonmarine]

YOU guys cant complain if you dont vote.....
My suggestion to us all as we are going to pay for a valuable lesson in teh next two years is that : .... Representation is power and thus FREEDOM ( too & from ) ....
Rick32 / Carbon

[DrewDown]

Boat cop= I got a warning for loud exhaust early on a sunday mourning. I think the officer was just bord. When I passed him I was coming off plane and he was holding his tester close to his windsheild as to get a lounder reading. No confertation he was accualy a real nice guy just doing his job, But there are alot of boats out there with much nastyer motors than mine. Stock 500hp EFI,Havasu San berdino county sheriff

[jackaroos]

Folsom has to be the worst,
I was stopped 10' from the loading ramp just starting my boat, fired it up and then was told to turn it off. The officer was on a wave runner and it was rubbing on the side of my boat while he was lecturing me about how they had laws about noise on the lake. So I pushed his waverunner away so it would not scratch my boat and that ticked him off. Iam sorry but you pay alot of money for a paint job it would be nice to keep it looking good. I did not get a ticket but was told to leave ASAP and never to come back.

[jackpunx]

Ive been kicked off Buena Vista.. But I think he is talking about Havasu/Parker...

[BADBLOWN572]

I am counting down the days until I receive my first noise ticket. Luckily, I have never been asked to leave, got a ticket, etc. I know that it is only a matter of time. I feel sorry for you guys who are borderline and get hastled. Then an asshole like me gets let off without question. :D :yuk: :D :yuk: I know that even with larger mufflers (which are larger than nothing) I would still fail miserably.

[SandMan_Mike]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
According to the article in ***boat Arizona will not be recognizing the new noise restrictions of 88 dba 39" from the transom.
OK Sounds like we need to start looking into exhaust out the side. Seen on many race boats
mj

[Her454]

Originally posted by jackaroos
Folsom has to be the worst,
I was stopped 10' from the loading ramp just starting my boat, fired it up and then was told to turn it off. The officer was on a wave runner and it was rubbing on the side of my boat while he was lecturing me about how they had laws about noise on the lake. So I pushed his waverunner away so it would not scratch my boat and that ticked him off. Iam sorry but you pay alot of money for a paint job it would be nice to keep it looking good. I did not get a ticket but was told to leave ASAP and never to come back.
Ditto on this. Pushed the boat away and asked him to take his "foot" off the side of my boat that my daughter could hold it just fine, (and I was extremely nice as I didnt want a ticket) pissed him off and they made me take it off the lake, AND THEN told me to have my husband make it legal before I brought it back -with a shitty grin. F'er. I've never been back.
Hardcore is right also, everything is no, no, no - makes it too much of a pain to make the hour trip. No thanks.

[77charger]

glad my SLOW family boat has thru hub exhaust.But that is what it is for cruising and taking my wife and son out on.But feel the new ca limits are going to be strict my theory is that if you mouth off or get a cop pissed he just has one more reason to cite you!
The boat below will have a prob but not at the drags.but has never had a prob on the lakes either just go at the right time
I
I
V:D

[gnarley]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by boatnam2
boy i think that switchable exhaust is finally going to pay off.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Havasu Cig
Swithable exhaust is illegal as well:frown:
Can you tell me why switchable would be illegal? What if a boat had thru hull from the factory and you added in the switchable exhaust after the fact, long after the fact? I just made it quieter than it was when originally built, for my own discretion so I’d surely like to know how that would be illegal?

[Mandelon]

Because you could switch it back to the thru hull and then it would be loud enough to violate the law again.
I'm sticking with the duct tape and flex pipe! :rolleyes: :D

[Havasu Cig]

Originally posted by gnarley
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by boatnam2
boy i think that switchable exhaust is finally going to pay off.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Havasu Cig
Swithable exhaust is illegal as well:frown:
Can you tell me why switchable would be illegal? What if a boat had thru hull from the factory and you added in the switchable exhaust after the fact, long after the fact? I just made it quieter than it was when originally built, for my own discretion so I’d surely like to know how that would be illegal?
It is what the law states.

[gnarley]

Originally posted by Mandelon
Because you could switch it back to the thru hull and then it would be loud enough to violate the law again.
I guess you didn't understand my post. My boat came NEW from the factory with thru hull/transom exhaust, NO thru prop exhaust.
It may not have been loud enough in the first place to warrant a ticket??? But then again??? Anyway there was never any thru prop exhaust on my boat from the factory. So how could I be violating a law by making it quieter at my own discretion?
Can anyone post how this is stated? Havasu Cig you said it’s what the law states. I guess I have trouble believing that I cannot add this in. I could see where a boat never had thru hull exhaust and then you added it in after the fact and by doing so made it louder. But this in this case I have not made it louder, only quieter upon my choice, or my wife’s.

[paradigm shift]

Well 88db is not much. I doupt any thru the transom will pass period. Thru trnsom with no mufflers that is. Just my.02. I got some teague switchables that will probably be for sale soon. :rolleyes:

[paradigm shift]

Well 88db is not much. I doupt any thru the transom will pass period. Thru trnsom with no mufflers that is. Just my.02. I got some teague switchables that will probably be for sale soon. :rolleyes:

[boatnam2]

well i dont know if its illegal or not but when i put my boat in the water and start it next to th eguy with out it i think i will know who the cops will be going to.boat is pretty quiet when i throw the switch.not so quiet when i dont.

[boatnam2]

to tell you the truth i only boat parker never in the middle of the night and never at 5 in the morning so im really not worried.i dont go to a public launch were a cop is setting just waiting to get his pencil warmed up.

[eliminatedsprinter]

Originally posted by gnarley
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by boatnam2
boy i think that switchable exhaust is finally going to pay off.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Havasu Cig
Swithable exhaust is illegal as well:frown:
Can you tell me why switchable would be illegal? What if a boat had thru hull from the factory and you added in the switchable exhaust after the fact, long after the fact? I just made it quieter than it was when originally built, for my own discretion so I’d surely like to know how that would be illegal?
Because the party that controls our state's legislature dosen't trust us with that much freedom.:mad:

[P P R]

I have a pair of corsa electric diverters . that came on my 502 they where ran twice . Now they sit on my work bench, the first three hundered dollars takes them.

[gnarley]

So can anyone post a link where to read the law? I would like to read it.

[Rexone]

Ok one more time (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22813)
:)

[gnarley]

Thanks Mike :D

[Charley]

Originally posted by BADBLOWN572
Don't act like a dipshit and usually you will not have a problem. Loose your head and your ass will follow.
LMAO
This might be the best advice ever given on these boards:D

[gnarley]

Below is the part of the code where it states (2) In constant operation. (outlaws part time systems).
This does not state if it was installed prior to or after the change in the law. It also does not state anything about a muffled thru hull exhaust. What it does state is that you must have a full time muffling system in place. SO I would tend to think that if you had factory thru hull muffled exhaust your fine as long as it passes and if you added in a diverter system to divert exhaust to the prop also defined as a muffling system you are still fine as BOTH are muffling systems and the use of either one would be under the full time operation and muffled.
Nowhere does it say diverters are illegal, it says operation without a fulltime muffling system is illegal. I don't think they really care how it is done you must have a muffing system that meets the requirements.
Also since not all boats have thru prop exhaust there must be a provision that allows for other tyes of exhaust systems other than thru hub or thru prop.
SEC. 2. Section 654 is added to the Harbors and Navigation Code,
to read:
654. (a) (1) For the purposes of this section, a "muffler" or
"muffler system" is a sound suppression device or system that is
designed and installed to abate the sound of exhaust gases emitted
from an internal combustion engine and prevents excessive or unusual
noise.
(2) For the purposes of this section, an underwater
through-the-propeller-hub exhaust outlet system is a muffler system.
(b) A motorized recreational vessel that is operated in or upon
the inland waters, or in or upon ocean waters that are within one
mile of the coastline of the state shall be equipped at all times
with a muffler or a muffler system that is all of the following:
(1) In good working condition.
(2) In constant operation. (outlaws part time systems)

[eliminatedsprinter]

Yes, three of the six boats our group brought were kicked off the lake that weedend at B.V. The ranger told us that when the new law goes into effect things will get a lot tougher for loud boats. For now he was just warning people and kicking them off the lake, but he said that when the new law goes into effect he will have to write citations.

[gnarley]

Originally posted by eliminatedsprinter
Yes,
What are you saying yes to?

[Rexone]

gnarley, I think you're interpretation of that is pretty much correct. I should have written "outlaws part time systems utilizing any form of unmuffled operation". Obviously the sprit of the law is to eliminate systems that can be switched to open exhaust and back. To switch between 2 different muffled systems that both pass noise levels I think would be a moot point. But then again its the guy on the dock and his mechanical knowledge and judgement writing your ticket (or not writing it) so even that may not be 100% bullit proof.

[gnarley]

Thanks for the reply Mike. I feel for all those that will need to somehow quiet their boats exhaust noise down, I don't even know if I will pass but suspect it will be fine. One thing for sure the times are a changen, the only thing constant is change. I remember driving with open headers in my street car in the 70's, & couldn't even imagine what would happen if I did that now. So for all those that had very loud exhaust it was fun while it lasted.

[Rocket-J]

My boat has no mufflers at all. It spent 8 years in the Havasu area with no problems. It has through the transom Lightning headers that exit the boat below the water line. It is 20" up to the top of the elbows and never sucks water. Granted, it is a carborated 540 Merlin that only puts out 620hp, but it shows that it can be done. I have people comment on how quiet it is.
I would like to experiment with exhausts that exit into the tunnels just in front of the transom. The trouble is, if it doesn't work you have some big holes to fill. With the new laws, we will see some inovations in exhaust systems.
Years ago I seen a race boat that had exhaust that dumped into a large round drum inside the transom. The drum had two pipes that let the exhaust out. There were no baffles and no back pressure but it really worked. Al

[LUVNLIFE]

I have the same setup Rocket. Through transom with lithnings but the tips are below water level. It really does make a diff. I don,t think I will be getting a ticket.

[79TahitiCBB]

Originally posted by Rexone
gnarley, I think you're interpretation of that is pretty much correct. I should have written "outlaws part time systems utilizing any form of unmuffled operation". Obviously the sprit of the law is to eliminate systems that can be switched to open exhaust and back. To switch between 2 different muffled systems that both pass noise levels I think would be a moot point. But then again its the guy on the dock and his mechanical knowledge and judgement writing your ticket (or not writing it) so even that may not be 100% bullit proof.
So Rex,
I have a mild/stock 454 with a 750cfm Holly, and the stock Panther logs that came on it in '79. From your testing fo you think that this will pass? I have had the boat for only one season and have not been hassled yet on Naciamento, but I plan on traveling this spring and summer and don't want to get hasseled. If I needed mufflers, how would I encorporate them with my current setup?
Thanks,
Mike

[Rexone]

I have not tested a boat with exhaust similar to what you have. Most the stuff we've been concentrating on has been late model center rise type manifolds and headers (thru transom). But since you asked I will guess. My guess is you won't pass but won't be that far off from passing.
Solution.. Some of our existing inline silencers may work for your application. they are quiet but all are limited in flow though which is why we've been working so hard on something that meets sound requirements but doesn't use power on larger engines. Several say they already have this product on the market but our testing doesn't indicate accuracy to the sound level claims. It's fairly easy to ditch the noise and sacrafice power in the process (silencer wise). Keeping the power is the challenge.
We will soon have an acceptable (and good looking) product that will address through transom exiting exhaust on all types of motors commonly encountered in recreational boating (including blowers). That is as much as I can tell you at this moment.
Remember in CA, the new testing procedure takes effect in 2005, not 2004. Testing procedure that we've dealt with for years is still the law in CA for 2004. In theory that would indicate not much enforcement change. The new law on the horizon however might prompt LE in some localles to step up existing procedures, don't know. It's pretty much up to local LE how much enforcement is applied at any local lake or river and for that matter whether it's applied fairly and per test procedures.

[BADBLOWN572]

Boatcop, Do you know what the fine is going to be if you get busted? Fix-it ticket? (I can hope). Fine, what? What will the consequences be for repeat offenders?

[Boatcop]

Boatcop, Do you know what the fine is going to be if you get busted? Fix-it ticket? (I can hope). Fine, what? What will the consequences be for repeat offenders?
I'm not sure how the fines go in California. As far as whether it's a "Fix-It" or not depends on a couple of things. 1) If the officer writes it up as a repair order, or 2) If the local judge will waive all or part of the fine if it's repaired.
Out here (Parker, AZ), the judge will dismiss the ticket as a "Fix-it" only if the violation was for "No Muffling Device", and they can show that they've since installed mufflers. If another ticket comes in for the same thing later, better have your wallet ready. We sometimes write a Repair Order and kick them off the water. If "WE" see someone who we know has been given a Repair Order for no mufflers, and they're running uncorked again, we can arrest them for "Failure to Comply".
As far as noise, no fix-it permissible. The violation is for excessive exhaust noise. It's "Fixed" as soon as you shut the engine off. The violation is classified as a "Petty Offense" with a max fine of $300 (+ surcharges of up to $200) The fine (here) is around $77.00 +/- first time around. We always note on the ticket if we've cited the person before for the same thing. The judge will take note of the prior offense and levy the maximum fine.
Don't think that just because it's a "Petty Offense" you can blow off the ticket. a Failure to Appear on one of these goes to warrant, with a FTA charge attached. Plan on at least a grand to get out of jail on that one. The court also classifies it as an unpaid debt and sends it to a collection agency, which dings your credit report.
If it's blatant, extremely loud, and pretty much continuing unabated (constant revving the engine at a dock, for example) we can charge "Disorderly Conduct". Essentially disturbing the peace. That's a Misdemeanor Criminal Offense, with fines up to $5,000, and up to 30 days in jail. The neighbors have to get involved and play witness for it to go that far, though.
How California Officers and Courts will handle it is pretty much up to the individual Officer(s) and Judge(s).
And just because it's done one way "here", doesn't mean it's going to be done that way everywhere and every time. Situations are different. Even though we "aren't supposed" to take attitudes into account on how we handle a certain incident, lying to us, (I didn't know it was against the law, or too loud, etc.) cussing, "I pay your salary", "Don't you have anything better to do", etc. etc. etc. has some effect on how the situation is handled.
We'd never do more than what is allowed under the law for that situation, but you sure won't catch any breaks. :D
As was said before, this is just a different method for measuring sound. There have ALWAYS (at least for the last 30 years or so) been noise regulations. Arizona will enforce the existing law, as it's written. If there's anything introduced to change our measuring standard here, I'll let you all know as soon as I find out. After that it's up to you.

[79TahitiCBB]

Originally posted by Rexone
I have not tested a boat with exhaust similar to what you have. Most the stuff we've been concentrating on has been late model center rise type manifolds and headers (thru transom). But since you asked I will guess. My guess is you won't pass but won't be that far off from passing.
Solution.. Some of our existing inline silencers may work for your application. they are quiet but all are limited in flow though which is why we've been working so hard on something that meets sound requirements but doesn't use power on larger engines. Several say they already have this product on the market but our testing doesn't indicate accuracy to the sound level claims. It's fairly easy to ditch the noise and sacrafice power in the process (silencer wise). Keeping the power is the challenge.
We will soon have an acceptable (and good looking) product that will address through transom exiting exhaust on all types of motors commonly encountered in recreational boating (including blowers). That is as much as I can tell you at this moment.
Remember in CA, the new testing procedure takes effect in 2005, not 2004. Testing procedure that we've dealt with for years is still the law in CA for 2004. In theory that would indicate not much enforcement change. The new law on the horizon however might prompt LE in some localles to step up existing procedures, don't know. It's pretty much up to local LE how much enforcement is applied at any local lake or river and for that matter whether it's applied fairly and per test procedures.
Cool Thanks Rex,
Please keep us posted.
Mike

[Kachina26]

Dumb question here, is the boat in the water when measured? I ask because while my exhaust is thru-transom, it is below the water line and would surely do good. It is above the water line while on a plane, how's all that work?

[Rexone]

Originally posted by Kachina26
Dumb question here, is the boat in the water when measured? I ask because while my exhaust is thru-transom, it is below the water line and would surely do good. It is above the water line while on a plane, how's all that work?
Summary of tests from prior link... Both the below tests are in the water. (Most exhaust and engines need water to run, and most silencers depend partially on the water to function effectively).
J2005 stationary test. This test is from 4 to 5 feet above the water at 3.3 feet from the transom. Test is at low idle speed in neutral. For engines manufactured before January 1, 1993, a noise level of 90 dB(A). For engines manufactured on or after January 1, 1993, a noise
level of 88 dB(A)
J1970 shoreline test. Test may be taken from any distance from shoreline. This test can be administered from shore, from a platform or from a boat so "shoreline" is a bit misleading. Drive by a patrol boat administering this test even at part throttle and you may have a problem. A noise level of 75 dB(A) or below is required to pass. 75 just isn't that loud.
The above is my summary. Actual text of the law can be found on the link earlier in this thread.