Any Stokers or HST's with mercury promax's?

[STOKER909]

Do any of you know of anyone with stokers mainly the sst 20 ft (or hydrostream HST's) that are rigged with a mercury promax of any type but mainly the 300. I am mainly interested in knowing about the 300 and not the 300x as much but info on that would suffice as well. What type of results have you had? Drivability, stability, control, danger level (if any) speed etc. etc. etc. I know that the promax 300 weight is 480 lbs dry which weighs about 74 pounds more than my 200 blackmax. I have already heard some pros and cons from respectable sources who have made some conflicting statements against the others view and just want some more clarity if possible.
Thanks

[Towndrunk]

Kim has an HST with a Rude V8 on it.

[stoker2001]

Just talked to Al Stoker on Thursday,he is rigging a 20 footer with a Merc 250SX 505LBS as we speak.Give him a call

[STOKER909]

Just talked to Al Stoker on Thursday,he is rigging a 20 footer with a Merc 250SX 505LBS as we speak.Give him a call
You see that's just it, I spoke to Al about this a few days ago and he vehemently recommended against rigging a promax 300 on one of those but then added that it could be awesome in one drivers hands but be basically a death sentence to an amateur driver considering that the sport master gear case with low water pickup likes to be ran really high because the stern tends to drag alot when running at or below pad. He then added that if you got real squirrelly at high speed, there would no stern in the water to help you gain back control of the boat quickly. I consider myself a fairly accomplished boater and adapt very quickly to driving needs. I talked to Eric Simon about rigging one on mine and he said it would be totally fine (in fact would probably be awesome) but then again he does not build stokers.
Anymore ideas or opinions? Thanx for the input so far.

[STOKER909]

By the way TD, thanks for the input on Kim's hydrostream I would like to hear more about that beast and the type of rigging (jackplate, setback if any, motor height, weight and overpowering issues if any.) That just seems like that v8 would be extremely torquey monster!

[whiteworks]

What type of results do you want to see? I would take Als opinion on this setup and then ask yourself which driver am I. If it gets squirly at speed and you need to get that motor down in a hurry is it possible with your current setup, can the hydrolics in the jack be modified to get it down faster and would that solve the problem? I think if I was lookin to go fast I would have Al build a engine and set it up how ever he recomends.

[RitcheyRch]

I agree, trust Al since he has been doing this for years and knows his stuff.

[Towndrunk]

This post is not to slam Al S. it's just the way it is.
Every manufacturer wants to cover their ass. Al knows full well that his boats will take that motor and handle it safely. I mean just how hard can a Mod vee be to drive? Not VERY! Now Allisons on the other hand are quite a handful and there is a learning curve which you damn well better pay heed to or you're gonna get wet. Darris has a recommended for fuel mileage sticker altho they are coast guard rated unlimited. The sticker causes insurance companys to get queazy. What this boils down to is these two manufacturers want to sell hipo boats but are trying to protect their own ass as so they should.
In 1978, the first year the Evinrude 235 was out I bought one and put it on a Hydrostream Viper, 15 footer. It was a handful but I learned to drive it before it killed me. Now I can drive anything on the planet but not because I was born good but because I took the time to learn them. You should too. Follow that guideline and you can drive a Stoker with any motor out there.
Good luck and be safe.
TD

[STOKER909]

I appreciate all your input, but I am inclined to take the chance with the promax. I would never drive to test my wits with my wife and 3 kids in it with me, that goes without saying, but you bet I would get on that bad boy with just me or another adult male passenger or 2. I am not arrogant about my ability to feel the boats capabilities but I am confident with the right rigging setup that I would do just fine. I am not above reproach though and still welcome your personal experience and/or suggestions.

[STOKER909]

What type of results do you want to see? I would take Als opinion on this setup and then ask yourself which driver am I. If it gets squirly at speed and you need to get that motor down in a hurry is it possible with your current setup, can the hydrolics in the jack be modified to get it down faster and would that solve the problem? I think if I was lookin to go fast I would have Al build a engine and set it up how ever he recomends.
Well I want a motor that has power to spare and is lighter than the E-tecs, affordable and reliable. Basically the torque on the 300 promax with the right pitch prop would make up for the high rev's needed from a 2.5l to go the same speed. I am not too interested in the high strung 2.5L mercs because of potential reliability issues.

[STV_Keith]

Call Kevin at R & R Prop Shop (http://www.randrpropshop.com). He's got an HST he's had for a while. Had an OMC V6, Merc 2.4, 2.5, 300PM etc, on it. 702-564-7502.

[Kim Hanson]

By the way TD, thanks for the input on Kim's hydrostream I would like to hear more about that beast and the type of rigging (jackplate, setback if any, motor height, weight and overpowering issues if any.) That just seems like that v8 would be extremely torquey monster!
Okay, you asked :cool: It has about 6" of setback from the jackplate, I try to run it even with the pad. The engine weighs in at 570 lbs. boat is 1200 Lbs. and it is over powered by alot, but what the hey! She will rip at over a 100+ mph with ease and it is so stable its scary :p Torque in the steering is off the wall, you can turn right really fast, turn left under hard acceleration is a no go! I have just the no feed back steering, no feed back cause you can turn it left :p My wife and kids love it, I have 3 girls 21,20 and 18......They like this one over my v-drive anyday :cool: .......( . )( . ).........My Rude is pushing 340 hp @ the prop right now :crossx:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/7272HPIM0474-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/72post-2-1089845913.jpg

[Kim Hanson]

Well I want a motor that has power to spare and is lighter than the E-tecs, affordable and reliable. Basically the torque on the 300 promax with the right pitch prop would make up for the high rev's needed from a 2.5l to go the same speed. I am not too interested in the high strung 2.5L mercs because of potential reliability issues.
Also , I run a 30 pitch prop.........( . )( . )..........chopper :cool:

[Tom Brown]

Okay, you asked :cool: It has about 6" of setback from the jackplate....
Kim, didn't you used to run two jack plates? I thought you had a small manual plate, as well as a 6" hydraulic. :confused:

[Tom Brown]

As I recall, it looked something like this.
http://www.carlsonspeed.com/~tombrown/QuickLink/img_2350.jpg
Is that a CMC-ML65 paired with a 4" Land and Sea hydraulic? I know you swapped out that L&S plate since then.
http://www.carlsonspeed.com/~tombrown/QuickLink/img_2372.jpg
Remember when it got out of control on you, spun out, and you were thrown from the boat?
http://www.carlsonspeed.com/~tombrown/QuickLink/img_2465.jpg

[STOKER909]

Great Stuff! Shoot I do not think that I even want to go over 100. The nice thing is that the promax comes with hydraulic steering so I would have no trouble turning left at a decent clip.
You are from Alberta? Ever take that HST out on Lake Okanagan in Kelowna BC? i have a good friend that lives there and he tells me that people love their race boats up there.

[InspectorLance]

The hydraulic steering will only mask handling, and setup issues of any boat. Hydraulic steering sure wont fix a wrong gearcase selection, height or prop selection, just make it less noticeable till its too late.
Lance

[Kim Hanson]

Great Stuff! Shoot I do not think that I even want to go over 100. The nice thing is that the promax comes with hydraulic steering so I would have no trouble turning left at a decent clip.
You are from Alberta? Ever take that HST out on Lake Okanagan in Kelowna BC? i have a good friend that lives there and he tells me that people love their race boats up there.
Those pictures Tom just put up are from Kelowna BC, nice water there! I seen some pretty fast ones on the Shuswaps also.........( . )( . )........... :cool: The HST is my family boat also, kids love it !

[Familycat]

My brother runs a Pro-Max 300 and has had great luck. He popped his 2.5 twice in the first two years. He said screw the high rpm's and went with the larger Pro-Max 300 motor. Better in all situations. At Stoker said don't do it but should you really take advice from a Evinrude guy? LOL Anyway it is a much better boat and a lot less weight sensative. Hope this helps
Rick

[riverbound]

Well I would say listen to Al....at least he is warning you against building a boat that might be dangerous to drive or put you and your family in danger.
Now if your goal is to build a race boat than have at it....but personally I will listen to the builder of a boat over some people on the internet any day. Esepcially when these people dont give a $hit if your boat puts your family in Danger. I do have to say it would be interested to see though, and if you do go this way....keep us updated.

[STOKER909]

My brother runs a Pro-Max 300 and has had great luck. He popped his 2.5 twice in the first two years. He said screw the high rpm's and went with the larger Pro-Max 300 motor. Better in all situations. At Stoker said don't do it but should you really take advice from a Evinrude guy? LOL Anyway it is a much better boat and a lot less weight sensative. Hope this helps
Rick
So he has one on a 20 foot stoker? If so I would love to hear what kind of rigging setup he has with it. Any setback? Is the turning capability compromised or improved for that matter?
And as far as destroying those high strung race 2.5 engines that is the reason that I too would prefer the lower rpm torque and nearly bulletproof reliability of a 300 promax (which was my original intent) and that extra torque would afford me the ability to lope the motor along at a pretty good clip with a 28 to 32 pitch prop. My intent is to have a motor on that boat that would be the last motor that I would ever need and have power to spare.

[STOKER909]

This is the motor!
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13074
This is the boat I want to put it on.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=13075

[STOKER909]

Preferably my youngest son wouldn't be driving the boat.

[STOKER909]

Well I would say listen to Al....at least he is warning you against building a boat that might be dangerous to drive or put you and your family in danger.
Now if your goal is to build a race boat than have at it....but personally I will listen to the builder of a boat over some people on the internet any day. Esepcially when these people dont give a $hit if your boat puts your family in Danger. I do have to say it would be interested to see though, and if you do go this way....keep us updated.
I do appreciate everyones input and my family's safety is paramount, I just think that what it comes down to mainly is my foot. I do not intend to have my foot in it, especially with my little ones aboard. The goal that I have, I already stated, and if I am an absolute idiot please tell me so but give me your reasons and experience to why. It is not like I just started driving boats or outboards for that matter. I have been driving high performance boats since I was 12 now turning 33.
With that said please know that I still respect your experience and opinions.

[Towndrunk]

I like that paint scheme. Should be a fine rig when done. I agree with you when you say it's your foot. I think I heard a hint of envy from someone! :jawdrop:

[STOKER909]

just put down my deposit this morning! Weeeeeeeee! :rollside:

[Kim Hanson]

I do appreciate everyones input and my family's safety is paramount, I just think that what it comes down to mainly is my foot. I do not intend to have my foot in it, especially with my little ones aboard. The goal that I have, I already stated, and if I am an absolute idiot please tell me so but give me your reasons and experience to why. It is not like I just started driving boats or outboards for that matter. I have been driving high performance boats since I was 12 now turning 33.
With that said please know that I still respect your experience and opinions.
I don't know anything about Stokers but I think its getting use to the boat before you start going crazy. I have to ask you, do you think a 300 will reach 100 mph in that boat ? I have been in a Liberater with a 300X and the best was 95.........( . )( . ).......My kids like about 70-80 mph, smooth ride even in 2-3 foot chop and they say it looks like it is going a 100 mph sitting on the beach. Happy boating bra :cool:

[STOKER909]

I don't know anything about Stokers but I think its getting use to the boat before you start going crazy. I have to ask you, do you think a 300 will reach 100 mph in that boat ? I have been in a Liberater with a 300X and the best was 95.........( . )( . ).......My kids like about 70-80 mph, smooth ride even in 2-3 foot chop and they say it looks like it is going a 100 mph sitting on the beach. Happy boating bra :cool:
Considering that the HST bottom is identical to mine and the 2 boats are almost identical in weight then now what do you think? I have plenty of seat time in this boat and I am confident that this boat would easily be in the upper 90's to 100+ by myself if i pushed it. I would never take my kids that fast and they already have seen 75 in it which is borderline even though (like your HST it is extremely stable feeling.) That 300 motor is essentially stock except for the sportmaster lower unit and the painted cowl.

[Kim Hanson]

Considering that the HST bottom is identical to mine and the 2 boats are almost identical in weight then now what do you think? I have plenty of seat time in this boat and I am confident that this boat would easily be in the upper 90's to 100+ by myself if i pushed it. I would never take my kids that fast and they already have seen 75 in it which is borderline even though (like your HST it is extremely stable feeling.) That 300 motor is essentially stock except for the sportmaster lower unit and the painted cowl.
It's all about horsepower buddy, @ 300 hp I was hitting a hundred +! 340 @ the prop on this new rebuild, still under 6000 grand..106 mph and just breaking it in bra, that 300 won't touch a 100 mph :) Don't want to break your bubble, but 90 + is still fast bra...........( . )( . )........... :cool:
When I did my last gps on her, 2 people and 20 gallons of fuel.....106 mph, still amazed at that speed. This year, she will see over 7000 grand and I will gps it so all can see........... :cool:

[STOKER909]

It's all about horsepower buddy, @ 300 hp I was hitting a hundred +! 340 @ the prop on this new rebuild, still under 6000 grand..106 mph and just breaking it in bra, that 300 won't touch a 100 mph :) Don't want to break your bubble, but 90 + is still fast bra...........( . )( . )........... :cool:
When I did my last gps on her, 2 people and 20 gallons of fuel.....106 mph, still amazed at that speed. This year, she will see over 7000 grand and I will gps it so all can see........... :cool:
Haha even if I am wrong that is still plenty fast!
Oh and another thing I may not be getting the motor after all! He had that motor listed on Ebay at the same time and about an hour right after I called in my deposit somebody won the auction with buy it now. Which isn't cool because they should have ended their auction once I committed, now they are saying that they have to honor that buyer and I am thinking, "well what about honoring me!" So we will see, hopefully I will have an answer in the morning. They'd better honor our deal! What's right is right, I had it first!

[stoker2001]

It's all about horsepower buddy, @ 300 hp I was hitting a hundred +! 340 @ the prop on this new rebuild, still under 6000 grand..106 mph and just breaking it in bra, that 300 won't touch a 100 mph :) Don't want to break your bubble, but 90 + is still fast bra...........( . )( . )........... :cool:
When I did my last gps on her, 2 people and 20 gallons of fuel.....106 mph, still amazed at that speed. This year, she will see over 7000 grand and I will gps it so all can see........... :cool:KIm,i know you are just trying to help,but making a statement that a 300 wont touch 100 on 20' Stoker is a little pathetic or real old school.Times have changed,i know of a 22'4" Stoker (which by the way is huge compared to the 20)with a single 300X Merc that ran 102mph first time out and will bet money it has 109 to 110 in it.Your Hst with modded V8 OMC at 106 is ok,but not that impressive.Ric Gillmans V8 on his 21 daytona would run easily 118+ with a tall prop,so you got you work cut out for you :rollside:

[STOKER909]

That's what I thought, but hey, don't mind me I just the new guy here that just happens to love his boat so much that he made his user name reflect that just like quite a few other folks on here. :D

[Towndrunk]

Hell I like pussy too but my name isn't Towndrunkthepussychaser!! :D :D :wink:
Kevin, will I see you at the opener next week?

[STOKER909]

TMI. I do not want to hear that.

[stoker2001]

Hell I like pussy too but my name isn't Towndrunkthepussychaser!! :D :D :wink:
Kevin, will I see you at the opener next week?Stacie and i are there as first place pays $1150.00 in our slow a$$ class.Good luck on your race this weekend,hope you make it out to Firebird

[Burley1]

You see that's just it, I spoke to Al about this a few days ago and he vehemently recommended against rigging a promax 300 on one of those but then added that it could be awesome in one drivers hands but be basically a death sentence to an amateur driver considering that the sport master gear case with low water pickup likes to be ran really high because the stern tends to drag alot when running at or below pad. He then added that if you got real squirrelly at high speed, there would no stern in the water to help you gain back control of the boat quickly. I consider myself a fairly accomplished boater and adapt very quickly to driving needs. I talked to Eric Simon about rigging one on mine and he said it would be totally fine (in fact would probably be awesome) but then again he does not build stokers.
Anymore ideas or opinions? Thanx for the input so far.
I would have to say that if Al is anything he is careful, he knows that would be more boat than most can handle. The 22SST with an X is a 100plus mph boat so the 20 would be really fast.

[STOKER909]

Well I do not have to worry about the promax anymore. It was sold out from underneath me to an Ebay buyer even after I made a deposit in good faith and was the rightful winner! To say I feel cheated, sad, angry, disappointed, is an absolute understatement!

[Kim Hanson]

KIm,i know you are just trying to help,but making a statement that a 300 wont touch 100 on 20' Stoker is a little pathetic or real old school.Times have changed,i know of a 22'4" Stoker (which by the way is huge compared to the 20)with a single 300X Merc that ran 102mph first time out and will bet money it has 109 to 110 in it.Your Hst with modded V8 OMC at 106 is ok,but not that impressive.Ric Gillmans V8 on his 21 daytona would run easily 118+ with a tall prop,so you got you work cut out for you :rollside:
106 @ 6000 grand is pretty stout, I don't want to break it right away :p I will do 7000 grand this year and see what it does :cool: Didn't Gillmans have a blower on it also ?........( . )( . ).........

[Kim Hanson]

Well I do not have to worry about the promax anymore. It was sold out from underneath me to an Ebay buyer even after I made a deposit in good faith and was the rightful winner! To say I feel cheated, sad, angry, disappointed, is an absolute understatement!
Get back to looking bra, go BIG.........( . )( . )............... :cool:

[stoker2001]

106 @ 6000 grand is pretty stout, I don't want to break it right away :p I will do 7000 grand this year and see what it does :cool: Didn't Gillmans have a blower on it also ?........( . )( . ).........a buck six at 6000rpm=fun and longevity,goto 7000 and you are asking for it :220v:

[Towndrunk]

Stacie and i are there as first place pays $1150.00 in our slow a$$ class.Good luck on your race this weekend,hope you make it out to Firebird
I'll ride out either Thursday or Friday. What day are you getting there?
Boats broke for now so no racie for me yet.

[stoker2001]

We plan on driving all nite and arriving about 10 or 11 am friday morning.If we arent to tired i will run the gambler class that starts at 4:00pm friday

[Towndrunk]

We plan on driving all nite and arriving about 10 or 11 am friday morning.If we arent to tired i will run the gambler class that starts at 4:00pm friday
If the bastards didn't make it so hard to join they might get me in it but then I don't hace CA money either. :p

[Forkin' Crazy]

a buck six at 6000rpm=fun and longevity,goto 7000 and you are asking for it :220v:
That is BS! That engine should run at 7K all day long!

[Forkin' Crazy]

Check out that topless chick driving the boat!!! :crossx:
http://www.carlsonspeed.com/~tombrown/QuickLink/img_2372.jpg
Kimmy, sounds like you need a torque tab. If the motor is crabbing, you are losing speed.

[Tom Brown]

Check out that topless chick driving the boat!!! :crossx:
Let me tell you.... that chick put out! :D
http://www.CarlsonSpeed.com/~tombrown/QuickLink/img_2327.jpg

[Forkin' Crazy]

Let me tell you.... that chick put out! :D
Did you take advantage of her, Tom?
Never mind. I don't want to know!!! :yuk:

[Towndrunk]

Kinda flat chested aint she? :rolleyes:

[stoker2001]

That is BS! That engine should run at 7K all day long!YA YA YA,without any balancing or other mods and get 1000 hours without any probs :rolleyes:

[Towndrunk]

YA YA YA,without any balancing or other mods and get 1000 hours without any probs :rolleyes:
Hey you, quit causing trouble. :p Gimme a call when you get into town.

[Forkin' Crazy]

YA YA YA,without any balancing or other mods and get 1000 hours without any probs :rolleyes:
Ever look at the shop manual to see what the operating rpm is? :idea:
So I guess you have disproved this also? LOL!!! :rolleyes:

[stoker2001]

Hey you, quit causing trouble. :p Gimme a call when you get into town.we are driving all night long and should roll into Firebird no later then 11:00AM Fri morn.I have to get past tech inspect and If the boss isnt to tired i am planning on running the Gambler classs (dial your own handicap) that starts at4:00 PM.

[STOKER909]

Ummmm.......... has this thread been hijacked? I would prefer you guys take your extended unrelated conversation to Private message if you could.
Thanks.

[Forkin' Crazy]

Ummmm.......... has this thread been hijacked? I would prefer you guys take your extended unrelated conversation to Private message if you could.
Thanks.
No thanks to the PMs. I like a highjacked thread. After all, this is Hot Boat!!! :rollside:

[Wicky]

No thanks to the PMs. I like a highjacked thread. After all, this is Hot Boat!!! :rollside:
Let the fun begin!!!! :)

[Forkin' Crazy]

Let the fun begin!!!! :)
WOOOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! :crossx:

[Tom Brown]

Has anyone seen my doggie?

[Forkin' Crazy]

Has anyone seen my doggie?
Isn't there a song... my bonnie went across the ocean?
uhm.... cough... LOL!!! :220v:

[Forkin' Crazy]

I've lost my Allison... has anyone seen her? :cry:
Oh, here she is. :crossx:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/767run3big.jpg

[STOKER909]

I've lost my Allison... has anyone seen her? :cry:
Oh, here she is. :crossx:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/767run3big.jpg
Actually she is in another thread, cheating on you!

[Forkin' Crazy]

Actually she is in another thread, cheating on you!
No, that's Alison. Watch it, that red one bites! :crossx:
:cool:

[Towndrunk]

I rode that bitch before you did! :p

[Forkin' Crazy]

I rode that bitch before you did! :p
Did she bite? :crossx:

[stoker2001]

I rode that bitch before you did! :pI thought your sorry azz was going to show at the boatdrags :cool: The friggen 26 hour round trip tow sucked as usuall,but the $700.00 prize money helped ease the pain :rollside:

[Towndrunk]

I thought your sorry azz was going to show at the boatdrags :cool: The friggen 26 hour round trip tow sucked as usuall,but the $700.00 prize money helped ease the pain :rollside:
Damn dude, they wanted $28 just to get in the pits. :cry: I'm a cheap bastard and still saving my money for gas at Bluewater 300. :cry: I need a set of original 26cc heads. Got a pair?

[stoker2001]

Damn dude, they wanted $28 just to get in the pits. :cry: I'm a cheap bastard and still saving my money for gas at Bluewater 300. :cry: I need a set of original 26cc heads. Got a pair?Funny you ask,i went with 21cc and the drag original untouched 26s just collect dust (these are gasket style).I am not sure what i want for them?P.S,I lost in the final to Barrettas blown hemi hydro,the $650 for runner up helped ease the pain :rollside:

[Towndrunk]

Funny you ask,i went with 21cc and the drag original untouched 26s just collect dust (these are gasket style).I am not sure what i want for them?P.S,I lost in the final to Barrettas blown hemi hydro,the $650 for runner up helped ease the pain :rollside:
Kool, I'm glad you kicked some butt. Cash helps too. I stayed home and worked on my hydro for the next race . My gearcase exploded.
The heads I am looking for are casting number 18767C3 . I need them soon if you have them or know of anybody that does. Thanks
TD :boxed:

[stoker2001]

Kool, I'm glad you kicked some butt. Cash helps too. I stayed home and worked on my hydro for the next race . My gearcase exploded.
The heads I am looking for are casting number 18767C3 . I need them soon if you have them or know of anybody that does. Thanks
TD :boxed:I found them here for $323 #18787 http://www.dougrussell.com/partscatalog/components/index.cfm? double check your part# the 18787 is definitly the 26cc heads

[stoker2001]

Bad link? try this http://www.dougrussell.com/partscatalog/collections/index.cfm?fuseaction=collectdetails&colid=05 click on S3000 for breakdown and price list

[Towndrunk]

Bad link? try this http://www.dougrussell.com/partscatalog/collections/index.cfm?fuseaction=collectdetails&colid=05 click on S3000 for breakdown and price list
WTF?? I can't find any heads at all. Chuck at Nitrox gave me that part number. :cry:

[stoker2001]

this should work or call drew at Boatmasters 925-828-5775 http://www.dougrussell.com/partscatalog/components/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewparts&colid=05&coldesc=S3000&index=2728&block=11&BlockNumberList=13,9,1,2,12,10,16,26,14,4,7,3,6,8, 23,21,22,20,25,24,0,11,15,17,5,19,18 I kinda want to keep mine for laking,but if you want to give me $250 for them i will ship

[Towndrunk]

this should work or call drew at Boatmasters 925-828-5775 http://www.dougrussell.com/partscatalog/components/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewparts&colid=05&coldesc=S3000&index=2728&block=11&BlockNumberList=13,9,1,2,12,10,16,26,14,4,7,3,6,8, 23,21,22,20,25,24,0,11,15,17,5,19,18 I kinda want to keep mine for laking,but if you want to give me $250 for them i will ship
What do the pockets on your heads measure across ?

[stoker2001]

What do the pockets on your heads measure across ?TD,i am out of town on biz,should get back sometime tommorrow

[Towndrunk]

Thanks but I just bought 2 sets.