Exhaust Brake

[HOSS]

What would an exhaust brake do for a marine application? Propane injection is cool but what would the brake do? Out the hole quicker? Could there be a use in Commercial vesels?

[fleetimus]

What exactly is your question??????????????????????

[matt1]

I think he's been drinking again.

[058]

Like a Jake brake or a Blue Ox? WTF for?.....Hoss, have you been drinkin' again? Please tell the nice gentlemen in the white coats what you took so they may help you.

[HOSS]

Sorry, to clue in the clueless I`m referring to a diesel motor.

[HOSS]

Funny. I am referring too loading the motor. would it benefit. Could you hammer the throttle after with a boost effect?
I know in trucks it uses the motor to slow down the vehicle. Just wonderring.

[Clown]

Jake Brake ARRRRRRR! ARRRRRRR!
Go and ask your local truck stop.
They tell me there Mec enics10 -4

[Ray Hamel]

Hey, Hoss;
Forget those doubters. When you come up with a money making idea, they will be saying "duuuh, why didn't I think of that????" After all, that's how someone came up with stinger exhausts for two strokes.

[Wet Dream]

Engine brakes simply open the valves slightly at a different interval to the stroke to basically make a large compressor out of the engine. There aren't any HP or performance gains. Propane to a diesel is like NOS to a gas engine. And yes, it adds major life expectancy to your boat brakes. :D

[HOSS]

Wet dream, we are all aware of these facts as you stated. I was looking for something else.
There is a use. I just have to find someone who`ll let me put one on and play with it.

[Jordy]

Originally posted by Wet Dream
Propane to a diesel is like NOS to a gas engine.
Technically, no. Propane is merely another fuel while NOS is a catylist that makes the burn more complete by adding Oxygen. In the long run, propane is bad for your motor as it raises cylinder temperatures dangerously high and has the potential to burn rings out of the motor. NOS has the same effect in a diesel as it does in a gas motor and actually cools the intake charge.
Exhaust brakes on a boat Hoss? :confused: :D

[Jordy]

Originally posted by riodog
We're talkin Jake or Cummins type exhaust brakes here. Riodog
Jake brakes are an engine brake, not an exhaust brake. Engine brakes change the valve timing and use the motor's own compression to slow down. Exhaust brakes function on back pressure and are a flapper type valve that is in the exhaust behind the turbo.
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/265866/i/News_02.jpg

[HOSS]

Ya`ll are a funny bunch. :D
I was looking at a commercial tug to be exact. What benefits (if any) would an exhaust brake have? I fully understand the use in trucks for pulling loads. I also understand the use of propane injection. And Jordy is right about the combustion chamber temps. I was looking for something. I am unemployeed and hope very badly not to work for someone else again. All that being said, what benefits can someone see for a brake on lets say a tug. I was looking at wether or not there woulds be a benefit from lets say a partial closing of the brake while tug is trying to moor the load (with other tugs) and when needed to load the motor then release the brake (fully open). The currents here in the Mississippi are hell.
Just looking at something. An idea. There are tugs here using Z-drive. But very few and looking for a cheap solution to an expensive power utilization solution.
Maybe I`m just tryin` to re-invent the wheel here. Because backpressure on a boat can and is controlled by water. But a brake would be instant as well as a cheaper fix to an already existing problem.
But maybe a brake at this level would become a maintenance issue with carbon buildup and defeat any gain I was looking to achieve. Any way, good luck now that the idea is out!;)

[Wet Dream]

Ok, so use a line brake. A disk brake/ caliper setup on a driveline?

[HOSS]

You won`t catch me in that engine room then. Its hot enough without breathing burnt brake pad material.

[HOSS]

As stated in the other thread, Borla has for years made a muffler for drad vehicles that have actually shown an increas ein performance. As the other guy stated he knows a dude with them on his boat and increased horsepower. I guess he can read the add from Borla. What a turd.
Want an answer to your exhaust and noise problem,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,find the pic posted on this site a couple of years back witht the guy who routed his over-transom headers into pipe going back down to the water line. It was a red boat.
He basically took the long way about thru transom exhaust.
I heard that you could take a camel condom and put those on the end of the headers ( with tip removed) to reduce noise without any power loss. Sounds like an ol` lady passing gas through a mega phone. But the db`s are low.
For those running zoomies I have used condoms cheap! Soup can style!:p

[HOSS]

OK, seriously about a muffler now. I do have ideas and probably won`t ever do anything about it because I don`t have the equipment at my disposal. But think of a diode (yes in electronics). Now think sorta like a Christmas tree. I`ll check back to see how far ya`ll have ponderred (brainstormed) on that one.
PS- I do believe this will work.
Damn almost forgot. Also think of the candy cane deal from years past in front of the barber shop. And witht the Christmas tree---------go inverted!

[Jordy]

Originally posted by riodog
ATTENTION EVERYONE, I STAND CORRECTED! JORDY IS RIGHT CUZ HE READ THE BANKS BRAKE DURAMAX AD !
I knew what they were long before that. I was just tying to post a picture to educate the others (and I wasn't going to use a come-apart or POSD ad :p )
As far as using any kind of a compression brake, be it Jake or exhaust, it won't work to preload the motor as the compression brake runs as a function of the motor already turning, ie. coming down a hill and using the momentum from the truck to keep the motor running. On the older style Jakes, if you hit them on while the truck was out of gear the motor would die. :D
So to answer the original question, neither of these ideas would work Hoss. The line lock would be a viable alternative that would allow you to "powerbrake" the motor. ;)

[HOSS]

Thanks jordy.
No one has yet to take a stab and try and figure out what I`m thinking of as far as a muffler goes? Damn all these hints and no one will try?
Ok, it could be an insert sort of like the tornado.
Where is the muffler thread?

[HOSS]

Damn,,,,,gettin` quiet.

[HOSS]

cheech,,,,won`t take a stab?

[cheech]

how are they going to test a boat for noise, at a pre-set speed infront of somebody with a db meter. do you have to be at wot, or are they going to stick the head up your header tube and look for a muffler. hanging a muffler on the end of your $500 headers is going to be hard on the flanges if you don't put some kind of stand for the extra weight. if you sray water into the header just pass were the 4 tubes meet in the collector at maybe 60 degree angle towards the outlet in a fine mist it should take alot of the pulses out of the exhaust with out killing the motor. and who says it has to be on all the time?
PS is the tug a jet drive or a shaft to a prop?

[HOSS]

Either or.
Although the 40 to 100` vessels I`ve been a part of always went alot faster with a pump. IE the MK-V.

[cheech]

i think the only way to load the motor is some kind of way of keeping the output from turning so you can get the motor to spool up with out moving the boat. a jake or exhaust brake only helps to deccelerate the motor. if you did the same thing like a exhaust brake on the outlet of a jet pump i think you will damage the pump,impeller or shaft.

[Hemicbx]

OK Hoss, I'll jump in on your engine loading question with an analogy from another industry.
In big air conditioning equipment (called chillers) there is a thing called "hot gas bypass". It takes already compressed gas and allows it to "short circuit" the rest of the system and to back to the intake of the compressor.
Here's why, and I'm approaching this from a capacity (output) reduction standpoint, not a centrifugal compressor gas flow standpoint. So, you're running your chiller in support of a process job such as making lycra, or PC chips, or whatever you want. Suppose that a batch of your product comes out of the machine and needs to be cooled as soon as it comes out then there is a lull in the action before another batch is ready.
Batch #1 comes out and is cooled and moves down the line. You have to cut back on cooling or you'll freeze your cooling chamber but you don't want to shut down the chillers because you need them ready for action when the next batch hits. Hot gas is the answer. You take some of the discharge gas out of the compressor and suck it back through the compressor. Now the compressor thinks it's doing more work than it really is and the machine stays fully loaded, but there is very little "cold" being produced. When Batch #2 comes down the line, turn off the hot gas and you're right back up to full capacity.
How does this all apply to tugboats? OK, here's my thought. I'm making up numbers here but lets say fully loaded you need 200HP but sometimes you only need 100HP. An engine is a pump. It can only move so much gas at a given speed. The air/fuel mix is what makes the power. Throw an inert gas to it. Something that will not make any power, just take up space in the chambers. Exhaust gas for that matter.
So if you're running along at half power and normal fuel/air mix. You throw your inert gas to the intake. Power output is immediately reduced because part of your intake charge no longer produces power. To maintain that half power output you'd need to throttle up so you can get more of that precious air/fuel. Now when you suddenly need full power, your throttles are already open and you take away the inert gas. It's definitely not the most efficient way to go.
I'm not convinced this is a great solution or even a workable one, but hey, that's half the fun of brainstorming an idea. Just let everyone talk and see what comes out.
Hemicbx

[HOSS]

You are on to something here Hemi. That would be a fuel savings idea as well as emissions friendly. But I`m thinking this would possibly pose durability issues because of carbon buildup and a temp issue. I will ponder this for a bit. I like it.

[HOSS]

This is a really good concept. Re burning exhaust on an idle circuit in gear. This is gonna take a bit.