Small Blocks in Jets? Just Foolish?

[miketsouth]

Anyone have any experience?
DIfference in mounts between a 454 and 350?
Difference in PTO connection?
Looks like a 200lb weight savings between an iron454 and an aluminum headded 350(383?)
What cam profile with what exhausts? How much HP can i get and keep it there for many minutes and expect a whole engine when i get done.
Impeller matching for speed? (self answering, match impeller to HPmax)
Impeller matching for longevity? (Sustained RPM with what HP?)
4bolt crank necessary for 4600WOT rpm?
Reason i asked:
My wallet is extremely small and i am extremely tight.
350's with ADVERTISED big horsepower are CHEEP. Disposable cheep.
Many types of jets have little freeboard as it is. A light engine might help this too.
If i have to replace my 454 or if i buy a new hull (light white PickleFork :;)) and want to put a motor in it, is this even a consideration.
I like the water jacketed exhausts. Lots of choices for a 454/502 but not so much for a 350. Any thoughts?
Pullin a 454 in the street is a task. A 350 might be a LITTLE easier.
Any kind of information would be great. I have ridden in a jet with a 350 and was quite impressed. This jet had a well preped pump, though.
mikeT

[Blown 472]

Jungle Boy?

[Jetdriver]

I have an old buddy that has a 18 foot Hondo hull with a blown 327 chevy in it. Gets up and goes too!

[quiet riot]

Small blocks are packaged up in jets here in the nw. 350's are all over the place here, everything from mild fishing jets to wild racers. Any of you guys ever see the mighty mouse hydro run? Its a pro mod that ran in the low 6's for demo purposes when he was trying to sell it at CDBA races. Not too shabby for a small block.:)
I've got a sbf (351w) and it turned a legend a imp to 5k rpms for 8 years. Its a basic edelbrok performer rpm build just over 400 horses. Turned it to 5500 rpms with lots of n2o also. never had an issue. With the 350 chevy bottom end you prob want to go 4-bolt if you want to put much power to it. 302's, zz4's, and bone stock 350's are packaged with pumps by american turbine, kodiac, hamilton, etc.... by the thousands. 350's have a decent amount of stuff from center riser exh man. to headers from many places.
PTO's, bellhousings, mounts, all the stuff is out there. Check out rex marine or many of the other places that deal with the stuff. Like anything, if they're built for it they can last a long time. My buddies stock 350 efi runs at 4400 rpms all day long in his jet (he needs it to keep the big pig moving, 24 ft jetsled weighs over 4k lbs). zz4's are raced in stock river and sprint boat classes in many boats.
jd

[Jet Hydro]

I`m still looking for a set of Headres for a 350????????
Anyone know of where I can find a set????
T/T headers that is.

[quiet riot]

I`m still looking for a set of Headres for a 350????????
Sure, I just picked up the HB magazine and lightening had an ad for them in there.
Back to the small block thing though, gotta also remember that some of those rare manufacturers have put out a few small blocks in boats in there days, like mercruiser, omc, volvo, etc. Actually at a rate of about 50 to 1 when compared to big blocks. Just gotta remember there are more boats out there than just offshore or racers, like the recreational ski and runnabouts.
jd

[Jet City]

Quiet Riot gave some good info there, I don't see anything wrong with a SBC for a jet. If it were me, I would consider a 406 SBC instead of the 383, the build cost is very similar, but those 5.7" rodded 400's really rock (SRP makes some really nice pistons for these in various cc volumes). You might check with Jim Brock, Duane (HTP) and Rexone for parts and availability for your needs.

[miketsouth]

Very good. Thank you all.
What about camshafts with various types of exhaust
I dont want logs or open headers
Aluminum manifolds like CMI, or tubular lightnings seem like they would fit the bill, Pricey, yes and not everywhere used (actually used lightnings would be kind of risky, i suppose, for their tendancy to crack)
I know there are some reversion problems with extended range camshafts. Im supposing the same thing makes them reverse as the bigblock, to much overlap.
Again, thank every one of you.
Got any more?
mikeT

[dgie]

You should PM "Frostypop" I believe he has a SBC in his jet boat. I brought up this subject in the past, I want to eventually switch out my 455. A lot of people on the board said go 454 instead of 350 due to the Torque that a big blocks puts out.

[miketsouth]

Hammer said that someone would mention 'torque'.
Torque dont matter to me. Only thing that matters is HORSEPOWER@RPM(that i can run all day)
Dont take that as an insult. It is not. I know what you probably mean. Brother Hammer said the same thing, but maybe in more picturesque terms:
One things for sure...at 4300 rpm's in a jet boat, that small blocks working...where as the big block is burping. Bigger CI is just making power easer.
NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT.
I know that. Even I know that.
I still think a light(white) P/F with a light engine can do the job i need. If it blows, get another one (stick on another sheep):D
MORE, please MORE about this. I am new to this and cheep and poor.
like this...in considering total cost of rigging a new boat or even changing a motor there are nickle/dime things that will kill you:
Marine Alternater
Marine Starter
Motor Mounts
Exhaust
Drive Coupling
Other things that have not even occured to me yet
I am convinced that the weight savings will offset the HP on acceleration in a PF and that the PF design will lend itself to the lack of HP on top end. I like acceleration, dont need to much top end. So far the money saveings are up in the air.
Thank you all again for the valuable advice and insite
mikeT

[dgie]

I am not against a 350/jet setup at all. I am fairly new to the jet scene and am considering giving this a a try myself, if it is too slow then at least the out of pocket expense would be low. Let me know what you find out.

[Kiwi Legend Jetter]

Down here in New Zealand small blocks are the norm. Big blocks arent practical for out smaller boats purely from a wieght perspective. I believe to increase the overall performance of a jet boat the first step is to reduce wieght. Most of our hulls are under 600 lbs, some as light as 400 lbs. Like everything with boats every decision you make is a compromise. The Lexus 4.0L V8 is very popular, although not much lighter than a SBC with alloy heads they are bullet proof and cheap.
I'm building a Hamilton 132 (14ft) with a 230 Subaru engine and legned pump. I dont have any numbers yet but will do in real soon. I have so far run the engine on the trailer and with the "A" blade it pulls 3200rpm (tacho accuracy unconfirmed). Lots of fine tuning to do from here.

[wsm9808]

I had an 18ft CP gull wing tunnel with a 400 sbc. Nothing special, had stock heads and log exhaust, small cam and performer intake. Ran in the low 60 mph range at 4800 rpm.
Dont build a small block with a huge cam and heads to make high rpm horse power. The impeller demands torque at rather low rpm and if you move your torque range too high in the rpm band your engine will lug like a 1/2 ton truck trying to pull a 18 wheeler up a steep incline. You'll end up with a motor that wont rev past 3500 and a dog of a boat. That is, if you are running a lake boat. The guys river racing in the ultra lite 15 and 16ft race hulls can run small impellers and spin over 6000rpm.

[Jetmugg]

My opinion only - if you are going to build a small block jetboat, go big. Build a combo based on a 400 small block, and go as big as your wallet can afford. A 406 combo with 350 rods and special pistons should run as strong as a 396 or 402 big block. For a small block, build mid-range power (3500-5500 rpm). Forget about absolute HP numbers at 6000 rpm plus - you'll never get there without a very small impeller.
A blown small block would be even better, and much cheaper to build than a big block. That being said, I have both a 400 sb and a 454 sitting in my garage right now. Both for sale, if you need one.
SteveM.

[likwidsukr]

Good post Mike I am also curious about this idea!!!

[BigBoyToys]

I'm listening (reading)......... Might be a good idea to try. Those with more info, keep posting:) I have seen some fairly decent SBC's out there that can put up some nice #'s on a dyno. If the numbers are right, combined with the weight reduction....:idea: :idea:

[Duane HTP]

I've made several jet boats run well with small block chevys, but I prefer the big block. They naturally have the troque in the range where it's needed in a jet boat. When you talk price, I think the BBC always wins out over the SBC. stock 350 chevys don't run as well as stock 454 chevys in jet boats. All this talk about 383's and 406's is fine, But seems to me that you'll spend more for one of those every time than you would for a basic 454 BBC. BBC marine exhausts & parts are more plentiful. Just think what you would have if you spent all of the money, it takes to make a SBC run in a jet boat, on a BBC. Just a personal opinion, don't tear me up too bad here, Okay?

[HammerDown]

Originally posted by Duane HTP
I've made several jet boats run well with small block chevys, but I prefer the big block. They naturally have the troque in the range where it's needed in a jet boat.
But Duane, some feel Torque is not a valad force when used in a Jet...some feel it's all about HP and Torque takes a back seat...as the Jet pretty much see's instant RPM from idle...your thoughts?
I know what mine are.

[Frosty_pop]

I've been running a small block for a long time with good results.......
19' Miller
Jacuzzi WJ Jet "B" Impellor
Have run both a 350 cu and a 383 cu.

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Duane HTP
I've made several jet boats run well with small block chevys, but I prefer the big block. They naturally have the troque in the range where it's needed in a jet boat. When you talk price, I think the BBC always wins out over the SBC. stock 350 chevys don't run as well as stock 454 chevys in jet boats. All this talk about 383's and 406's is fine, But seems to me that you'll spend more for one of those every time than you would for a basic 454 BBC. BBC marine exhausts & parts are more plentiful. Just think what you would have if you spent all of the money, it takes to make a SBC run in a jet boat, on a BBC. Just a personal opinion, don't tear me up too bad here, Okay?
I agree. Nothing against the small block. But if 4600 RPM is all a guy is looking for, then why not just a 2 bolt main Big Block? I think a jet boat needs big torque to turn that pump and the best way to do that is cubic inches, especially stroke. Plus the cost of changing motor mounts, exhaust, etc would be saved. Also resale value. Now you can tear us both up. :D

[Duane HTP]

Post the TQ/HP graphs of a stock sbc and a stock bbc and you'll see the difference. Then if you perfer, look only at the hp ratings. Forget the TQ. Which has the most hp? So which will run the fastest? Then you say I can rework my SBC and make just as much HP as your BBC makes. I agree with that. The point I'm trying to make, is what would you have, had you reworked the BBC and spent the same money on it???? Now, which would Still out run the other???
I might add that Small blocks run real well, in very small and very light weight boats, but the norm of what I see in jet boats is bigger boats than these.

[Jet Hydro]

Thanks quiet riot,
I saw the same ad.. The only problem with their headers are they cost $1600. to $1900.00.
I don't know about you but I can bend my own pipe for that kind of money.
I ran one of my race car 350`s in my old 18ft sunkist jet boat. It ran only 2 rpm less than my 454 did and had more MPH but there was about $1500.00 more in the small block.
One rule to always remember is that "CID is always cheap HP!"

[miketsouth]

Originally posted by dgie
I am not against a 350/jet setup at all. I am fairly new to the jet scene and am considering giving this a a try myself, if it is too slow then at least the out of pocket expense would be low. Let me know what you find out.
You are seein it as it is happenin'.
My research indicates the 350 base block is well suited to hold together. Some of the engine builders give max torque and max HP indications.
here is an example on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2451355924)
Look at his figures
427 hp @ 6000 RPM 418 ft. lbs torque 5100 RPM
Sized to an A impeller, it should turn some 4800+ rpm. @ 400HP
Would it hold together at sustained WOT? Would the holeshot be better with a loss of 250lbs over a mild 454. Should be. It should walk all over a stock 454 on any boat.
Looking at horsepower requirements of the Berkeley Pump Curve i just cant see it not being able to get over the 'hump'...Truth is i have heard this is possible, years ago.
It is these (relatively) cheep aluminimum head 350base engines that got me started thinking in this vein anyway. Then i looked at the prices of some cheeper engines. Disposable prices.
It just seems right. With no experience i may be making a BIG mistake. Thats why i ask here. Thats why i thank again, the good peoples for the excellent input.
mikeT

[SBC Carlson]

I've had a 383 sbc in my '76 glastron-carlson cvx-20 for 2 years. These are heavy ass boats, and mine has a fairly massive stereo including 3 12's mounted ahead of the bow tank. Initially, the motor was 4.020 bore, 3.75 stroke, 400 rods, comp xtreme 268 cam, 10:1, world torquer heads, a BG 650 and logs. With a 1/2 tank and 2 people on board, it gps'd 63 and change. The only pump mods are a diverter and a $79 loader. It turns the B impeller 5000. I switched to a kodiak center rise exhaust and 4 in tips and got zero performance gain. Possibly with a healthier motor, the exhaust will help more. This year I am building a 4.155 bore, 4.0 stroke sbc and will be using either an AFR or Brodix aluminum head. I want to hit 72 or so with this motor. I don't thing you could build a stock BBC cheaper than you could reproduce my basic 383. Cast cranks are $150 or less and will work fine. Put some vortec heads on it and you will love it. Also the bellhousing, starter,alternator, pto, and even the flexplate (depending on balancing) are the same between BBC and SBC

[Duane HTP]

Would you please tell us what size boat this is going in? What is the hull design? What is the weight of the boat? What is the intended use of the boat? How many people will you normally have with you? How fast are you trying to go?
When we get this information, we might well agree that a small block is exactly what you need. I deal mostly with the faster boats and have a tendency to lean towards the racing end of things sometimes. I didn't see many SBC's racing in jet boats this year.
SBC Carlson, you have a good running Carlson. But,You are going to spend more money buying those heads and building up the Small Block than you would putting a stage III camshaft, performer intake, and a 750 holley on a 454 that will out run you. That's the point I'm trying to make here. I'm not saying small blocks are bad, I love em in the right place. You might want to read Jet Tech in last months issue of Hot Boat Magazine. Greg sheds a little light on the issue.

[nelsonf]

I had a buddy that picked up a 73 Hondo with a berk JC-A no Motor. We took the 327 out of another boat and put it in this boat it ran 64MPH on GPS. So we built a very mild 400 Stock 5.565 rods, 487 223 cam, Flat top pistons and open chamber stock heads with 2.02 1.6 valves installed. It had a Tunnell Ram two 450's and headers it ran 4900 RPM right at 71 on GPS. It will out run most the boats at the lake all weekend long on 1 tank of gas. I think most people livein the world that bigger is always better i do not think so.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/47IMAGE074-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/4708040055-med.JPG

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Duane HTP
Post the TQ/HP graphs of a stock sbc and a stock bbc and you'll see the difference. Then if you perfer, look only at the hp ratings. Forget the TQ. Which has the most hp? So which will run the fastest? Then you say I can rework my SBC and make just as much HP as your BBC makes. I agree with that. The point I'm trying to make, is what would you have, had you reworked the BBC and spent the same money on it???? Now, which would Still out run the other???
I built my 383 SBC for pretty much less than a mild 454. My 383 has more torque (466ft-lbs) and more HP (457HP @ 5,200 RPMs) than a stock 454, and about 250lbs less with the aluminum heads and manifolds.
So let's see...more torque...more HP....and less weight for cheaper? I'd say it's a pretty easy decision. You cannot beat the $/HP of a SBC (up to 500HP or so).
IMHO, if you're gonna go for 500+HP...then it will get more cost-prohibitive, as you need some help (better heads, blower?) to keep up with the cubic inches of a BBC.
As for the other marine stuff, it's been my experience that all that stuff is the same price (if not cheaper) than the BBC stuff.

[Duane HTP]

Havasu, go here and compare header prices. SBC/BBC. This is what I was basing my coment on.
http://www.bassettracing.com/newpage2.htm

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Duane HTP
Havasu, go here and compare header prices. SBC/BBC. This is what I was basing my coment on.
I put EMI Thunders on my boat.
http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/details.asp?SubCategoryID=295&CategoryID=107
I think the SBC ones are $150 cheaper.

[Duane HTP]

Nelsonf, Okay, if your goal is an 18' 71 mph boat, I agree with you 100%. SBC is an economical way to go. Thing is, most of the people I deal with don't want to stop there, so I usually try to start them out with a BBC. Seems like they always want to go faster and faster.

[Fiat48]

Consider that the advertised engine on Ebay to make the HP and torque claims:
at sea level corrected altitude at 60 degrees temperature and 0 humidity (not very common air).
355 cubic inches with 10.3 compression at 6000 RPM
To make 418 ft lbs of torque the torque efficiency would have to be 117.30%
To make 427 HP the Volumetric efficiency would have to 110.5 %.
And if this were all true, that engine would make 341 Hp at 418 ft lbs torque at 4800 rpm.
tq x rpm = HP

[nelsonf]

Duane
That is the point this Engine is pretty stock and the pump is bone stock nothing done to it at all. With some setup this boat could easily out run most Lake boats atleast around here. in fact it allready outruns most of them

[21rayson]

i have a 18' renagade made by central marine that i pick up this summer it has a zz4 chevy crate motor. that i added a msd ignition and changed the intake to a rpm air gap and a 750 cfm carb. rebuilt the pump with a b cut impeller and added a loader grate. and it runs 71.4 @ 5100 rpm. http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/155018_15-med.JPG

[Jet City]

I think the smallblack is very attractive for the right performance levels, but I would agree with the earlier statement that above 500 HP the fatblock makes far more sense. I just built a mild smallblock for my uncles outdrive boat, needed to idle under 800 rpm and make good power to 5200 rpm, 9.3:1 CR 383 SBC using Pro Topline 200cc heads (iron with 2.02/1.60 valves) Weiand Stealth intake, Sea Demon 650 vac sec, Crane H272 cam (216/228 @ .050). According to DD2000 this 383 (with headers) would make 385HP@5000 (89.7 VE%) peak of 394HP@5500 and 424 FT LBS torque @ 4000, this engine was inexspensive to build and with a cam, intake and carb better suited for jetboat use, it should spin an A cut impellor to 5000 rpm. I would have prefered building a 406, but we didn't find a suitable core in time.

[blownmoney]

had a buddy that picked up a 73 Hondo with a berk JC-A no Motor. We took the 327 out of another boat and put it in this boat it ran 64MPH on GPS. So we built a very mild 400 Stock 5.565 rods, 487 223 cam, Flat top pistons and open chamber stock heads with 2.02 1.6 valves installed. It had a Tunnell Ram two 450's and headers it ran 4900 RPM right at 71 on GPS. It will out run most the boats at the lake all weekend long on 1 tank of gas. I think most people livein the world that bigger is always better i do not think so
same hull,(except mines a v-drive)396 bbc stock 86 gps...

[LVjetboy]

This just my thoughts...
I say forget about "torque" or cubic inches. Both small blocks and big blocks have torque and cubic inches. IN my opinion, focusing on torque or cubic inches masks the true answer to your question. (i.e., simplistic statements like, "Torque moves mass and big engines have torque." Or, "No substitute for cubic inches" etc.)
Instead, focus on maximum engine power @ rpm, impeller cut to match your engine's power peak, weight, and cost to get you there if cost is a factor. If you have to go smaller than a Berk C to match your engine's peak power then reconsider. Impeller efficiency may hurt you below that...not sure.
Weight IS a big factor for hull drag and speed. That fact alone may offset some of the extra cost in building a SB to match a BB's power performance at rpm. Depending on what speed you want.
Like Havasu and others mentioned, there's a power and speed limit where money and reliability concerns demand more cubic inches depending on your goals. What is that limit? Tough to know.
Are your goals beyond that limit? Doesn't sound like it to me.
jer

[dgie]

I am interested in the (1) tank of gas and going all day long. My current setup with a 455 sucks (2) tanks of gas and lasts only half a day. I am not planning on racing etc. Sounds like a SBC is a good option in my situation. What I am getting from all these posts is it is what you plan to do with the boat makes all the diffrence in choice of a SBC vs BBC.Where SBC reaches its threshold as far as max HP, BBC can pick up the slack and allow for more leaway at a minimal increase in $. Is that right? The last time I asked this same question about BBC vs SBC, the tables seemed to have been turned, the majority of respondents came back with go BBC now it seems that SBC are gaining more interest out there in the jet boat community. I wonder if it has anything to do with latest gas prices.:confused:

[miketsouth]

Originally posted by Duane HTP
Would you please tell us what size boat this is going in? What is the hull design? What is the weight of the boat? What is the intended use of the boat? How many people will you normally have with you? How fast are you trying to go?
Ok how about this kind, 19' @500lbs, CMI exhausts. I would like 70mph. Standard AT pump, A impeller (can be changed). Boat used to drive from the ramp to the sandbar. 10mile WOT blasts down the river. Usually one passenger (Wife or Dog). Graduating from many years with a bone stock 454(logs), berkeley A. I was quite satisfied with this boat. Just tired getting skunked by even a little rough water.
Can a small block get enough HP at a low enough RPM to sustain long runs WOT? What should my targtet HP/RPM be?
I was thinking a mild 454 with AA WOT 44-4500rpmwould go 70 all day long and be rather economical at cruise speeds.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mikejet/PerfBoat4.JPG
Hey Jer, your right forget torque;). HP@RPM, is all that matters, and then PUMP WORK. Match the impeller to what your doing.
Somehow i like the idea of a light engine in a boat like this. I never had a P/F. I got to drive one ONCE and i was hooked. They take the water much better than my 17' shallow V. Freeboard is an issue with many jetboats. Would not a lighter engine help this?
Then i found out how much they cost. And how much i had. Need is the mother of invention. Well, as i have found out, a SB in a jet is not inventing the wheel, quite the contrary. It may not be really cost effective though. Affordability. Economy kind of goes by the board in a jet anyway, but why not try? The base boat can be much improved with the proper intake/ride plate configuration.
In selecting an engine/impeller combination you got to know the HP/RPM thing...'what you going to do' thing...
Ok next, CMI exhausts looked mighty good to me. Cheep and effective. I wondered about reversion with these. What cam dimentions will work well with this kind of exhaust?
Many obeciences(bows) and thanks to thems that trying to inform me of thing little known to men of my lineage.
mikeT

[Duane HTP]

Mikesouth, you should be able to achieve 70 in that boat with a SBC.

[Duane HTP]

Mikesouth, you should be able to achieve 70 in that boat with a SBC.
Let me clearify something here. I've been jumped on here like I said SBC's were no good. They are a very good engines and can cost effectively push some styles of jet boats towards the 70 mph range, if that's all you're after.
What I've always said is; "Cubic inches is the name of the game in jet boats", no matter how you get them.
When Nelsonf talked about running a 327, that's a true small block. But he changed it to a 400 cubic inch motor. WHY? Could it possibly be more cubic inches?

[Foggerjet]

MikeT, Here's my .02. You shouldn't ever have to replace your 454. Unless you hang rods out of it that is. I would like to see you go with what you have. The cost of a set of injected Bassets alone for a SB would damn near pay for a decent rebuild of your 454. There is nothing wrong with a small block, But you HAVE a 454. I agree with (some) of the brethren that there is no replacement for displacement. I'm sure that there is a bunch of strong SB's. but is a refit make economic sense? Yes a SB weighs less but I think that the power potential of the BB outweighs this. If your 454 gets tired, freshen it up. Then put THAT in your pickle. Then put 200 shot on it.
Hang On!
again, just .02
fog

[Duane HTP]

Mikesouth, you should be able to achieve 70 in that boat with a SBC. But, wouldn't you really like to be able to run 80 or 85 mph in a boat like that, when you want to? No matter what you use, you can not get away with running a motor WOT all day long. You'll waste it eventually. Think more on the lines of running at 60% most of the time, except for some fun bursts of speed.
Let me clearify something here. I've been jumped on here like I said SBC's were no good. They are a very good engine and can cost effectively push some styles of jet boats towards the 70 mph range, if that's all you're after.
What I've always said is; "Cubic inches are the name of the game in jet boats", no matter how you get them.
When Nelsonf talked about running a 327, that's a true small block. But he changed it to a 400 cubic inch motor. WHY? Could it possibly be more cubic inches?
Blown 472 talks about a blown 327 that runs good. Do you think that motor cost less than a mild BBC that runs right along with it?
Jet City talks about a 383 and going to a 400 cid. Why? Could it be that cubic inches help?
WSM 9808 talks about a 400 cid motor.
Jetmugg says, "Go as big as your wallet will let you go."
Frosty Pop says he has run both 350 and 383 engines. I'll bet the 383 motor, (evertyhing being equal), ran better. Could it possibly be the cubic inches?
SBC are one of the finest engines ever built, but Guys look at what you are saying here; "Cubic Inches are the name of the game." Makes no difference how you come up with them. "Cubic Inches are the name of the game"
I rest my case here. Everyone have a Happy New Year!!!

[quiet riot]

Cool discussion. I'll just expand a little on my exp with my sbf. As I said I ran a 351w cheap 400+ hp perf rpm build for many years with no issues (even with 250 shot of n2o.) I run cheap kodiak al center riser exh man's. It had iron heads, flywheel, and all the heaviest of components for a sb, but that is what I had when I built the boat. Plus, it is in a light weight al sprint type hull.
But you know what happens, after 8 years I decided to finally build more. Thats why I finally went for more cubes with a stroke to 409 and make a much better flowing engine that weighs over a 100lbs less. It'll be a 600+ hp motor now before the n2o and should be capable of handling all the n2o I could fit in it. If I hadn't already built the boat around this small block (exhaust, mounts, enging cover, storage around the engine, center of gravity of the boat based on a lightweight sb, etc) I can say I might have done things differently. Well maybe not with this sprint style boat, but probably with the one you have pictured.
If i would've had a bb, probably would have still done the same thing, just ended up with more cubes and more power. The 351 was cheap when just making 400 hp @5k so I can't knock that route, but with the money I put into this 409 (about $6k and still using the same exhaust, mounts, etc) I'd have one killer bb.
If you're starting from scratch for a motor and accessories, you can build a cheap 400 hp @5k rpm jet motor (or get a zz4) but if you want more it starts to cost alot.
If ya just want something different like the mighty mouse boat that ran in the 6's, that's cool. Just think about what he musta had into that sb! :eek!:
If you already have a 454 to use, think about what you could do with the extra bones you'll shell out for the new motor, considering you still need a new exhaust for each motor, and mounts for the small block.
jd
ps. if you're really worried about fuel consumption, bring a cooler of lightweight beer. :D :D :D

[HammerDown]

Brother Mike:p ...for some reason I forgot to enter in the equation you already have a BIG BLOCK (like the way I did that):D
Bro...freshen up that BIG motor, bump the compression a little, add a nice cam...little head work with an intake...and go down the river!
And forget about the weight savings with a small block...you'll make it up with MPH...especially when you blow past "WaxBoy"...don't know about me however...if you start pullen me, I'll throw empty bottles of "weed" at ya.:D
Why regret later what you did'nt do in the first place...cool concept huh:cool:
Like Mr. Duane said...seems like anyone that started with a "true small block" (327/350/351)...just made them bigger.
OK...done deal.

[OSUman]

I have a small block 400 with double hump heads 2.02/1.94 valves eagle crank with eagle H beam rods 5.7" , JE Pistons, roller hydraulic Crower Cam roller rocker arms, Brodix intake with a 750 demon carb, Mallory ignition puts out about 450+HP. It is in a Taylor SJ runs 69 at 5300 rpm A/B impeller.
It is for sell only has 5 hours on it tuning time only. very strong motor.
The cam has a max rpm of 6000 so it produces its torque and hp in the range it needs to be in.

[Havasu Hangin']

You guys are right...more cubic inches = more good.
However, less money is also good. Ever price SBC parts? It's all about $/HP...and less weight is definately a bonus. So I guess my question is...if your goal is 500HP (or less), why wouldn't you go with a SBC (any size)?
A funny story...when I was calling around for a recipe to my current SBC, I found that a local guy (BIG name) had a 550HP (6,500 RPM?) SBC package for $12K or so, with some very nice parts. However, he charges almost double that for a 600HP BBC.
Go figure.

[HammerDown]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
You guys are right...more cubic inches = more good.
So I guess my question is...if your goal is 500HP (or less), why wouldn't you go with a SBC (any size)?
I here ya HH...but with us "guys" when do we realy ever settle for less, or when are we happy with "smaller" when we almost always want more and bigger and regret not doing it in the first place, that ='s even more money spent!.
Guys...take a look at your Junk:D (you know what I mean)...and if you say...yea it's big enough...your a friggen liar, YOU WANT BIGGER!
It's a guy thing...and even the women agree Bigger is always better!:D

[Back Forty]

Gas Economy..?
You aren't going to notice a difference in fuel usage between any engine if they are all tuned properly and delivering the same amount of power regardless of rpm. 500 hp at some F/A ratio will require about the same fuel amount whether it's a small shiv, Olds 455 or whatever...
It has been discussed a million times on this board about how more "power" at the lowest RPM makes for a better pump and faster boat.
I think...

[OSUman]

The weight is very critical it seems that every 100 pounds is 2-5 mph depending on the boat.
I will sell my sbc 400 for $2900
That is a steal

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by HammerDown
Guys...take a look at your Junk:D (you know what I mean)...and if you say...yea it's big enough...your a friggen liar, YOU WANT BIGGER!
Sorry...I can't help you with yer junk.

[miketsouth]

the 454 in my present jet ran fine last time i used it. That is where it is staying.
I want another jet (no fool like a fool with two boats). I will only afford so much. Lots of people have them for sale, ready to go at good prices. BUT
I am not buying one unless i see it first. My calculation says that adds about $700(min) on the CHANCE i might like it, if i got to fly out to see one i MIGHT like. AirFair, car rental, hotel...etc.
theres the bind. Shallow pockets, no large field to choose from.
So, looks like i get to put one together. They say i will be so proud. Maybe.
I am NOT greatly unknowledable about engines and pump combinations. I kind of know what i want, so i asked the good people on this board for advice, and got it.
I just want to make sure i know what i am getting into, trying to match HP/impeller combinations. Camshaft/head/exhaust seems key.
I have the choice between big block or small block. I dont want to go that fast (LIE) but i must temper my wants with my budget. Like i said the light engine makes sense. Matching the right goodies in the engine to the pump is a little harder than it looks on the surface. SBC's are CHEEP right now. I probably will not get a complete dyno sheet with any cheep one, and it would only apply with certain exhaust and intake combinations anyway. Takes some digging even to describe the target.
I was advised to BE PATIENT. Good advice.
Oh yeah, so far i have not found anyone to insure me YET. They all seem to throw 7's at the tunnel hull word. Not the HP/Lenght, not the OT exhausts. The Tunnel Hull.
Lots of work to do.
Lots of thanks to give.
mikeT

[Jet City]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Duane HTP
Jet City talks about a 383 and going to a 400 cid. Why? Could it be that cubic inches help?
I don't think anyone will disagree that more cubes = more power. These days it's possible to build 383-413 cube smallblocks for just a little more than a 350, the 400+ inch smallblocks offer the best return on the builders investment (as do the 500+ inch bigblocks IMO). I personally have no desire to build a smallblock jet, but if that is what Mike wants, I will stand behind my advice that the 406 offers the best bang for the buck in a SBC. Mike will have to decide if he is better off selling his current BBC boat complete and building a SBC, or raping it for the BBC core and accessories.

[FoMoCo]

Big Block form U-Pull-it $100.00
Clean and bore block $ 180.00
New H-Beam Rods $400.00
New SRP Pistons and Rings $500.00
Solid Cam and Lifters $ 180.00
Stock Big Block oval heads with bigger valves installed and rebuilt $800.00
New Victor Jr. Intake $300.00
New Demon 850cfm Carb $400.00
Waiving to your buddy with the small block jet boat, as you blow by him:
PRICELESS

[miketsouth]

Priceless:
Boat in the water while your buddy goes to pull the big block
Boat in the water while your buddy cleans the big block
Boat in the water while your buddy puts the internals in
Boat in the water while your buddy puts the externals on
Time, partner, time.
Although i got to say i dont expect to win any races with a cheep small block.
the above things is why i am keeping my existing boat. they all tell me 'mike get rid of that boat' or 'mike use the good shit out of that boat' or 'mike, once you ride in your new boat, you will never ride in your old boat again'
I got to have at least one running.
i aint really into working on boats. I like to drive them. and ski.
if i have to work on one so i can afford it...so it will be and has been.
this will be a lot more than i have done in the past. i have r/r a motor and rebuilt a pump (several times) i cant say it was enjoyable. Memorable maybe. I have never set a motor, gas tanks, wired from gitgo, or chosen a camshaft/ engine combo.
It will be challenging, for sure. Rewarding too.
Ill say it again...the biggest reward is the help, suggestions and even the humor i have been offered here in this forum in response to my questions.
mikeT

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by FoMoCo
Big Block form U-Pull-it $100.00
Clean and bore block $ 180.00
New H-Beam Rods $400.00
New SRP Pistons and Rings $500.00
Solid Cam and Lifters $ 180.00
Stock Big Block oval heads with bigger valves installed and rebuilt $800.00
New Victor Jr. Intake $300.00
New Demon 850cfm Carb $400.00
Waiving to your buddy with the small block jet boat, as you blow by him:
PRICELESS
Small Block form U-Pull-it $50.00
Clean and bore block $ 180.00
NEW Summit Stroker Kit (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DCSUM383KIT)- $1099.95
Solid Cam and Lifters $ 180.00
NEW Dart Iron Eagle Heads (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DRT%2D10421111)- $950
New Victor Jr. Intake (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D2900) $215.95
New Demon 850cfm Carb $400.00
Watching your buddy (who listened to some guys on the internet with "junk issues") cry after getting waxed by a mouse motor-
PRICELESS
Towing him back to the ramp after he grenaded his junkyard big block crank and heads trying to keep up with you-
A 12 PACK AND SOME GAS

[Duane HTP]

Discussing Torque vs. HP Interesting!.
Discussing plates and shoes, learn a lot.
Discussing pump overhaul, helpful.
Discussing SBC vs. BBC, PRICELESS!

[FoMoCo]

I have not been beat by a mouse yet!, or been towed by anything! SO I cant say thats true for me!!! Plus I love the sound of a Big Block!!!

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by FoMoCo
Plus I love the sound of a Big Block!!!
Like I said earlier...I can't help you with the size of yer junk.

[likwidsukr]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Small Block form U-Pull-it $50.00
Clean and bore block $ 180.00
NEW Summit Stroker Kit (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DCSUM383KIT)- $1099.95
Solid Cam and Lifters $ 180.00
NEW Dart Iron Eagle Heads (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DRT%2D10421111)- $950
New Victor Jr. Intake (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%2D2900) $215.95
New Demon 850cfm Carb $400.00
Watching your buddy (who listened to some guys on the internet with "junk issues") cry after getting waxed by a mouse motor-
PRICELESS
Towing him back to the ramp after he grenaded his junkyard BBC crank and heads trying to keep up with you-
A 12 PACK AND SOME GAS
HH That is funny shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by likwidsukr
HH That is funny shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you. I'll be here all week...please, tip your waitresses.
http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused17.gif

[Jet City]

Since Mike seems to be set on a SBC, I'll not add to the SB vs. BB debate, but I have put together an example of what I'd build for a reasonably priced and reliable 406 SBC.
406 SBC (4.155 x 3.75 using 5.7" rods)
Pro Topline 200cc heads, 2.02 x 1.60 valves ( available in Aluminum or Iron 72cc chambers)
SRP (+.030) -21cc inverted dome forged pistons (p/n 139625)
Fel-Pro #1004, .041 x 4.19 head gaskets (yeilds 9.15 CR with the above parts and zero deck)
Comp XM278H cam, 234/244 @ .050 .531/.533 lift (with 1.6 RR) on 112 LSA 110 ICL
Victor JR intake
800 Holley DP
On DD2000 this set-up works out to...(with small tube headers)
460 hp @ 6000 rpm (95.6 VE%) Peak
453 hp @ 5500
431 hp @ 5000
457 ft lbs @ 4500 (peak)
I'm sure this could be improved on, but it would be very reliable, run pump gas, and represents an economical build using unmodified off the shelf parts. It should also be capable of spinning an A cut impellor to roughly 5150 rpms.

[FoMoCo]

You said Grenaded BBC, thats where I was confused, becasue I have a BBF, they dont have that exploding problem!!!

[miketsouth]

457 ft lbs @ 4500 (peak) =391HP
Torque curve rather flat. Nice
Thats what im talking about.
Aluminum heads adds some $$, and maybe some problems with longevity or dependability, i suppose. Especially in a jet where there is no circulation thru the block and temperatures go to wild extremes.
112 LSA 110 ICL thats what i was wondering. I been reading about cams and their relationship to performance, expecially in boats. I aint there yet, but studyin'. I would rather turn slow for a longer time.
Thats good info JCR
mikeT

[Jet City]

my example 406 would spin a B cut impellor to around 5500 rpms. A question to someone more familiar with that hull is, what kind of speed would that combo produce based on the two impellor speeds? I suspect it may be around 75 mph.
5150 rpm with A cut Berk
5500 rpm with B cut Berk

[FoMoCo]

Thats the way to do, start out slower and work your way up! That way you knw the boat really well be fore it go to fast to control. My boat started out at 68mph and after getting o=it some what dialed it has reached a best of 86mph with GPS. Most of that was dialing and tuning the motor and the pump! I still have never gotton beat by a small block squirter!!! :p

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by FoMoCo
You said Grenaded BBC, thats where I was confused, becasue I have a BBF...
Thanks...I fixed it.
PS- You Ford guys never get beat by a SBC cuz your always on the trailer (wrenching). The only thing worse than grease under yer fingernails...is Ford grease under yer fingernails (yer fingers will never work right again).

[Jet City]

Originally posted by miketsouth
457 ft lbs @ 4500 (peak) =391HP
Torque curve rather flat. Nice
Thats what im talking about.
Aluminum heads adds some $$, and maybe some problems with longevity or dependability, i suppose. Especially in a jet where there is no circulation thru the block and temperatures go to wild extremes.
112 LSA 110 ICL thats what i was wondering. I been reading about cams and their relationship to performance, expecially in boats. I aint there yet, but studyin'. I would rather turn slow for a longer time.
Thats good info JCR
mikeT
I picked the Iron heads for several reasons, but cost being the biggest factor, if you move ahead with this project I'd recomend checking Ebay for the heads, there are some reputable distributors selling them for much less than Summit and Jegs. My research showed the Pro Toplines (Pro Lightnings) to be the best Iron 200cc head around, the Iron Vortecs when loaded with 2.02/1.60 valves are actually the best under .500 lift, but I didn't want thin wall castings. The 200cc heads seem to keep the velocity plenty high for the RPM range these boats work in, I wouldn't go any bigger, at least for N/A.
Here's an example of a good Ebay price on the iron Pro Topline's, these are 50cc chamber, but I've seen this seller offer the 72cc for similar (how do you beat that!)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33617&item=2451578430

[FoMoCo]

You guys Crack me up!!!!!:D :D

[OSUman]

I have a SBC 400 I will sell
for $2900 obo
as I posted before all the best parts makes 450+HP
I also have OT Bassett headers 4 point motor mounts and drive
to go with it I will sell it all complete and running for $3850 obo

[quiet riot]

I still have never gotton beat by a small block squirter!!! must not have much competition around there then. There is a full range of sb's around here ranging from slow 12 sec boats like mine to medium build air boats like jungles (100mph boats) to stuff like mighty mouse which is a 6 sec 180 mph sb, but he's cheatin with a prop.
jd

[LVjetboy]

"My boat started out at 68mph and after getting o=it some what dialed it has reached a best of 86mph with GPS. I still have never gotton beat by a small block squirter!!"
Maybe you haven't raced a small block with balls? Fomoco, I understand you're proud of your setup and speed. 86 is freakin' movin' for a jet. But to imply a built small block can't beat that? How much time and $$ do you have invested in your engine...honestly?
"I dont want to go that fast (LIE) but i must temper my wants with my budget. I want another jet (no fool like a fool with two boats). I will only afford so much."
Either you want to go fast or you don't. 70 mph not "real" fast but still may take some focus. Ever more speed is a different question, but you haven't ask that one yet. Spreading a "limited" budget between two jets will not achieve your goal no matter the block choice. These guys are trying to answer your question based on your stated goal and your stated limited budget. If you're not sure of your goal or focus...? Then answers will be all over the map.
BTW, a built turbo small block jet can do 100 mph easy. It's all a matter of power and weight. Your goal 70 mph?
""Cubic Inches are the name of the game. I rest my case here."
Don't rest that case so quickly...
:)
jer

[LVjetboy]

Quiet, looks like you beat me to it.

[miketsouth]

Either you want to go fast or you don't. 70 mph not "real" fast but still may take some focus. Ever more speed is a different question, but you haven't ask that one yet. Spreading a "limited" budget between two jets will not achieve your goal no matter the block choice. These guys are trying to answer your question based on your stated goal and your stated limited budget. If you're not sure of your goal or focus...? Then answers will be all over the map.
That is a problem, Jer. Knowing what i want. As far as the other boat splitting my budget, the other one just needs regular maintenance, a pittance, and runs. There is little market for an old jetboat here. Im ahead keeping it.
I am rid of another boat (old IO) that served me for 14 years and is flat wore out. That and slip fee will get me something.
I dont think i need but 320HP to do 70 in a light PF (this statement gonna get me in deep shit), but everything got to be on target. Another consideration (for me) is insurance. I just cant see running one without it. Go fast...70 is real fast to me...im a wimp.
Used/VS new....gonna pay, some advantage
PF vs V gonna pay... some advantage to some
over 63mph gonna pay (remember them bricks?)
insurable ride gonna sacrifice and pay...dont leave home without it
blingbling and chrome gonna pay...whatever floats your boat
Dont live in Tunnel Land (OK, TX) or Jetland(CAL) gonna pay
BBCvsSBC? thats what this thread is all about
I believe you still got it right Jer. I lack focus and commitment, as well as real experinence. Im getting good information from you and others. One thing is for sure...im a cheep SOB. That and jetboats, boats in general, dont mix to well.
MikeT

[stoker2001]

did you play with this pisspot on the feather river http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/523/55wheeliemirage-med.jpg

[Jungle Boy]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Jungle Boy?
A bunch of the guys that I run with have had a bunch of success with the the small block chevy motors. As the time goes on, the big blocks have been taking the flags. I still run the small block, but it's only due to MONEY involved. Here's is the end results as I see them: I run 98 MPH with 550HP and the guys that I race against are running 105/113 mph with 770 / 750 hp. So, I know that I'm running slow, but I still have a bunch of fun and am I'm still in the race. Small Blocks are a good source jetboat boat power and still are the main source of power with tin boaters that want to run 60 / 70 mph. DISCLAIMER: I'm really drunk and don't know what I'm typing.

[miketsouth]

Originally posted by Jungle Boy
A bunch of the guys that I run with have had a bunch of success with the the small block chevy motors. As the time goes on, the big blocks have been taking the flags. I still run the small block, but it's only due to MONEY involved. Here's is the end results as I see them: I run 98 MPH with 550HP and the guys that I race against are running 105/113 mph with 770 / 750 hp. So, I know that I'm running slow, but I still have a bunch of fun and am I'm still in the race. Small Blocks are a good source jetboat boat power and still are the main source of power with tin boaters that want to run 60 / 70 mph. DISCLAIMER: I'm really drunk and don't know what I'm typing.
music...i hear music:D :D :D :D
HNY
mikeT

[BottleFedJet]

:cool:

[LVjetboy]

Jungle, your numbers with a small block are amazing. If your small block turned out 750+ hp (turbo?) then I think you'd smoke those big blocks. It's all about hp and weight. Big blocks have an advantage in the cuin department. Not always decisive as weight impacts acceleration (as with asphalt), and also drag for boats.
jer

[likwidsukr]

My ol man has a 350 roller in a 16' cutlass!! It is very fast!!
It will be at Anna.

[blownmoney]

mike have fun with yer small block... Jungle, your numbers with a small block are amazing. If your small block turned out 750+ hp (turbo?) then I think you'd smoke those big blocks. It's all about hp and weight. Big blocks have an advantage in the cuin department. Not always decisive as weight impacts acceleration (as with asphalt), and also drag for boats. lv i think he'd smoke just about anything in a 16 ft 100lb aluminum boat!!!

[miketsouth]

and the responses both public and private have been great. They range from
"mike, buddy, friend, DONT DO IT"
to
"Sounds interesting, good idea, show me how it turns out"
to
"GO WITH IT BRO"
I did find the cam grind that seems right for a cheep 350. Comp Cams XM270H. It was recommenended also.
Doesnt look like i will get any reversion and ~300hp at 4500rpm or so (A impeller)...like i said i been studying cams. I worked a little with DTD too just to see what it would say. Looks like exhausts play a good part in the HP, and i plan good exhausts.
Now on to insurance.

[blownmoney]

300hp at
well there's one good thing about a small block, your still under there hp limit!!!

[waterslinger]

no replacement for displacement
Try a big boat dealer most have very good new motors from repowers. I seen 502's for 3k

[LVjetboy]

BlownMoney, let's forget hulls for a moment and think about engines. And power of course.
There's an interesting article in Feb Hot Rod magazine on Pro Stock vs Pro Import. On the one side, no substitute for cubic inches (n/a 500 cuin) on the other side, power's king regardless (turbo 189 cuin.)
They both run the 1/4 with nearly identical times and speeds. Why is that? Some say cubic inches rule no matter.
BTW, the little inline 6 cylinder has 310 more peak hp the the 500 big block. Not sure of engine weight comparison (a big deal for us boaters because of drag), but the 500 inch may have a disadvantage there also...engine alone.
The article suggests the pro import runs the same with a 300+ hp advantage (1,650 hp vs 1,340 hp) because turbo boost is load sensitive and they need to deal with setup issues to harness the full potential of their engine. Pro imports being the newbies here. The article also suggests the Pro import has more hp potential within reliability limits and the Pro stock is near the limit.
Now consider our application. Since our pumps don't load the engine as cars with a direct connect to asphalt, turbo lag may not be a big factor for jets. I think you could harness the full potential of that turbo import in a jet much easier than in a car. Not to mention the weight advantage. From HRM's interview with Warren Johnson I got...he's old school and likes the sound and feel of a big block. He acknowledges Pro Import has potential if they deal with slow 60 ft times.
If you put these two engines in a jet, I think the 6 cylinder import would win no matter the hull. So much for the no replacement for displacement mantra. It's more about how efficiently you make power and what that power costs in weight. Unlike the car guys, engine weight and how it affects both acceleration and hull drag is an important factor for boats.
Either way, the sound of a big block wins over an import turbo for me any day.
jer

[likwidsukr]

Mike:
Awesome thread man I was waiting for someone to start this!!!

[21rayson]

but the cost to build that little import and maintain it at 40lbs of boost @ 10,000 rpm.

[Aluminum Squirt]

My comments aren't really going to add to this discussion a whole lot, but IF I had a lot of money, I'd probably have a Buick Grand National Twin Turbo in my little aluminum boat. I'm not sure if it'd work but it sure would be fun tryin' and I think the power/weight ration would make for one fast boat. The only thing that would be missing is the sound of a V8 with no mufflers/water, oh, and I wouldn't be race legal in my class-Aluminum Squirt
PS-I just got the Jet Boat Marathon World Finals DVD from Eagle and its outstanding, very informative, very professionally made, and I even know what Baldy looks like now

[Jungle Boy]

Aluminum Squirt, Now that you seen me, the word is out. I'm a handsome man, no doubt about it!!
In New Zealand, they run lots of those V-6 turboed engines and they run real good. Some of them sound like an old Ford truck, but they run good. I have a old buddy that has a sweet GN that has been dynoed in the 500 HP range. It would be interesting on how good it would run in a boat.
The Bald man

[canuck1]

Davey (not that hansome) Boy
we'll find out in the spring how a v-6 buick will run no turbo but super charger instead. this set-up should take 200+ pounds off the rear

[Jungle Boy]

Originally posted by canuck1
Davey (not that hansome) Boy
we'll find out in the spring how a v-6 buick will run no turbo but super charger instead. this set-up should take 200+ pounds off the rear
Mike, Happy New Year. Are you putting that engine in your boat? Keep me posted, that will be a good combo.

[canuck1]

Happy New Year to you as well Dave
I thought that you were gone south
We have built two new motors for this year so far one 311 and a stretched 3.8. the wife is ready to kill me :cool:
Went for a run just before christmas, diggin ice out of the intake sucks, gps over 80 with the 311. ready for d class

[dgie]

Damn an import in a jet boat. I was going to bring this up earlier but I figure I would chance no one talking to me on this thread again :(

[miketsouth]

its done. mouse in a cheyenne p/f. Very happy with it. See you at Anna.
mikeT

[manuel]

After 4 pages of discussion all you give us is "it's done,mouse in a Cheyenne" don't leave us hangin' !! we need the details! and pix!

[miketsouth]

I dont have any real numbers yet, just how it feels compared to my stock bubbledeck
It is a Cheyenne clone, 350 with big logs and trumpets. Comp xe274h cam. AT pump with B SS impeller. The pump, rideplate and loader were all set up by someone who knows their shit (BottleFedJet).
I suppose it will do 70mph+ @ 5100rpm or 350hp. I only ran it for a few minutes and really havent hammered on it. Launches well. Picks the whole boat up and skyward with good G.
I know i cant keep up with the big boys on top end, but out the hole i may show em something. I think the weight really makes a difference out the hole.
Most importantly the nay-sayers and torque guys have something to see. I heard lots of torque shit 'it wont work' you will only get 3500rpm and it will stall and such nonsense.
I did this on paper first from carb to cam to pump and never looked a a torque figure. Just horsepower and pump curves. It worked.
I also have to say Walt (Walts Hot Boats) helped me understanding the cam and exhaust to get the horsepower. Everything he said came true.
I learned a lot, and have SO much more to learn.
mikeT

[Back Forty]

Ah never mind.