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JWM
12-29-2003, 02:44 PM
Monday, December 29, 2003 www.thelog.com
More Boats, More Fatalities And Injuries, CG Reports
Monday, December 29, 2003
Log News Service - There was an increase in recreational-boat registration and boating fatalities in the United States in 2002, the Coast Guard reported.
The Coast Guard reported in its 2002 Boating Accident Reporting Data, which it released Dec. 5 and is the most current data available, that there were a total of 13,040,726 registered recreational boats in the United States in 2002 compared to 12,876,346 in 2001.
The 5,705 boating accidents reported to the Coast Guard in 2002 resulted in 750 fatalities, 4,062 serious injuries, and more than $39 million in property damage.
The 750 fatalities reverse a downward trend and are at their highest level since 1998 when 815 fatalities were reported, the Coast Guard said.
Seventy percent of all fatal boating accident victims drowned - 524 out of the total of 750 fatalities. And, the Coast Guard reported that nearly 85 percent of the victims who drowned were not wearing a life jacket. It said that the fatal-accident data show that approximately 440 lives could have been saved in 2002 if boaters had worn their life jackets.
Alcohol was involved in 39 percent of all boating fatalities in 2002 compared to 34 percent in the previous year.
Twenty-eight children age 12 and under lost their lives while boating in 2002 compared to 26 in 2001. And nearly 40 percent of the children who died were not wearing life jackets.
Although the most reported types of accidents are collisions with other vessels, capsizing and falls overboard are the most-reported types of fatal accidents and account for 56 percent of all boating fatalities.
In 2002, the most common types of boats involved in reported accidents were open motorboats (41 percent), personal watercraft (28 percent), and cabin motorboats (15 percents). Sharp increases were reported in the number of reported fatalities involving open motorboats and PWC from 2001.
Overall, operator inattention, operator inexperience, and excessive speed are the leading contributing factors of all reported accidents.
As in previous years, approximately 80 percent of all reported fatalities occurred on boats where the operator had not received boating-safety instruction.
Current federal regulations require the operator of a recreational vessel to report an accident when one or more of the following occurs: a person dies, or a person is injured and requires medical treatment beyond first aid; damage to vessels and other property totals $2,000 or more; complete loss of any vessel, or when a person disappears from the vessel under circumstances that indicate death or injury.
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ratso
12-29-2003, 02:53 PM
39% involved alcohol, I have a feeling RD is going to have something to say about this one.:D

Boatcop
12-29-2003, 03:01 PM
More Boats, More Fatalities And Injuries, CG Reports
Monday, December 29, 2003
Log News Service - There was an increase in recreational-boat registration and boating fatalities in the United States in 2002, the Coast Guard reported.
The Coast Guard reported in its 2002 Boating Accident Reporting Data, which it released Dec. 5 and is the most current data available, that there were a total of 13,040,726 registered recreational boats in the United States in 2002 compared to 12,876,346 in 2001.
The 5,705 boating accidents reported to the Coast Guard in 2002 resulted in 750 fatalities, 4,062 serious injuries, and more than $39 million in property damage.
The 750 fatalities reverse a downward trend and are at their highest level since 1998 when 815 fatalities were reported, the Coast Guard said.
Seventy percent of all fatal boating accident victims drowned - 524 out of the total of 750 fatalities. And, the Coast Guard reported that nearly 85 percent of the victims who drowned were not wearing a life jacket. It said that the fatal-accident data show that approximately 440 lives could have been saved in 2002 if boaters had worn their life jackets.
Alcohol was involved in 39 percent of all boating fatalities in 2002 compared to 34 percent in the previous year.NOTE 1: In La Paz County 100% of fatalaties involved alcohol)
Twenty-eight children age 12 and under lost their lives while boating in 2002 compared to 26 in 2001. And nearly 40 percent of the children who died were not wearing life jackets.
Although the most reported types of accidents are collisions with other vessels, capsizing and falls overboard are the most-reported types of fatal accidents and account for 56 percent of all boating fatalities. (NOTE 2: In La Paz County 100% of fatalaties were from collisions)
In 2002, the most common types of boats involved in reported accidents were open motorboats (41 percent), personal watercraft (28 percent), and cabin motorboats (15 percents). Sharp increases were reported in the number of reported fatalities involving open motorboats and PWC from 2001.
Overall, operator inattention, operator inexperience, and excessive speed are the leading contributing factors of all reported accidents.
As in previous years, approximately 80 percent of all reported fatalities occurred on boats where the operator had not received boating-safety instruction.
Current federal regulations require the operator of a recreational vessel to report an accident when one or more of the following occurs: a person dies, or a person is injured and requires medical treatment beyond first aid; damage to vessels and other property totals $2,000 or more; complete loss of any vessel, or when a person disappears from the vessel under circumstances that indicate death or injury.
Unless someone just crawled out from under a rock, this shouldn't be news to anybody. I've been preaching this stuff on here for the past couple of years.
You don't have to take it from me. This right here shows why we do what we do.

JWM
12-29-2003, 05:31 PM
Thanks Boat Cop for the AZ Up-Date. I haven't seen a USCG breakdown of individual areas for the last few years.
At one time I received USCG up-dates every quarter, but with budget cuts those reports have disappeared.
Alan: When and where is the next boating class in your area?
Jim Wilkes
Wilkes Marine

Kilrtoy
12-29-2003, 05:33 PM
Out of those accidents how many were on lakes and how many were in the open ocean.
HOW many were on JETSKIS....

carbonmarine
12-29-2003, 05:45 PM
........ Those damn indians !

Rexone
12-29-2003, 08:12 PM
So RD does that mean that the 5% increase in alcohol related accidents and fatailites is insignificant and not worth persuing or correcting?
My guess is the 5% of the family's affected would not agree (5% x 750 people = 37 more people dead than previous year).
My feeling is even if it didn't increase it's worth reducing that number.
You can argue the alcohol deal to hell and back. Numbers don't lie. On the highway or on the water. And just because the boating education number are more overwhelming does not mean there is not an (increasing) alcohol problem contributing to dead boaters. I fail to see how relaxing OUI laws will contribute to having less dead boaters. :rolleyes:
Only thing it will contribute to is the ability to drive more partially impared without getting nailed which I guess is important to some because I keep hearing this argument over and over. I get tired of listening to the "infringed upon freedoms" argument in this area too. What about the dead boaters that died as a result of alcohol related accidents caused by impared or partially impared boaters making stupid decisions? Were their freedoms not infringed upon to a much greater degree?
Seems to me the problem is alcohol itself and peoples addictions to it that make any argument for not being able to drink it in any individual circumstance seem unreasonable to them.
Not trying to start shit. Just pointing out fact.
:)

Kilrtoy
12-29-2003, 08:21 PM
We all like to look and laugh at some of the stuff on here.
If you were parked on the street and saw a bunch of people partying and then getting in their cars driving like fools. I would hope you would alert the proper people. So what is the difference of this type of behavior at the river. It is even more dangerous than the street...

79 Howard
12-29-2003, 08:47 PM
I feel that until you don't drink and realize how unsafe a person can be,and make bad decisions behind the wheel in the name of having a good time then there is no reasoning with that person

Wicky
12-30-2003, 11:32 AM
As Roger Waters sang, "Money money money money money..............money!!!"
Yes it is all about the money!!

Rexone
12-30-2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by 79 Howard
I feel that until you don't drink and realize how unsafe a person can be,and make bad decisions behind the wheel in the name of having a good time then there is no reasoning with that person
Ya know RD this guy right here may have said more than I ever can. I think you and I are just gonna have to disagree on this one (big surprise huh). :D
Just a couple things and I'm gonna let this go...
My guess is the 5% of the family's affected would not agree (5% x 750 people = 37 more people dead than previous year).
My guess is your right.. Anyone that goes through anything tramatic usually over reacts to a situation. I know people that will not get on a motorcycle becuase someone related to them or someone they knew was killed on one. Should motorcycles be illegal?
The above is a bad analogy. Motorcyclists (even drunk ones) typically kill themselves, not others (unlike drunk boaters who usually kill themselves AND others). And no one is arguing to disallow boats because of boating related accidients that I've heard about, only drunk boaters.
And I don't feel that after having a family member or friend killed by a drunk boater that working towards outlawing drunk boaters would be over reacting.
You are absolutely right, the #'s DON'T lie. But the statistics ARE skewed!! I.E. A boater is floating down the river minding his own biz drinking a beer. Sober person one comes around and runs them over. Boater "A" had alcohol in his system, you have just HAD an alcohol "RELATED" incident. Even though it didn't play a part in the accident it was "involved" and later (just as in this argument) "involved" turns into "at fault" in alot of peoples lies.. excuse me eyes.
I very much doubt the above is the rule vs. the exception (Boatcop can correct me if I'm incorrect here).
As far as stastics being skewed... Boatcop states that 100% of fatalities in La Paz county (Parker) we're alcohol related. Doesn't seem skewable to me, unless of course you assume the exception above is the rule and all the drunks were victims of sober boaters not paying attention. I think that's pretty unlikely.
I've said enough on this one, no need beating a dead horse and bore everyone with (another) 3 page essay.
:)

eliminatedsprinter
12-30-2003, 11:43 AM
Whats the contraversy here? We have more boats on the water therefore we have more accidents. This so called increase in accidents does not seem out of line with the increase in the number of boats and does not seem to in any way indicate that boating is less safe for individual boaters. In order to determine that, at the very least, the number of injuries and or fatalities per thousand participants etc should be looked at and valid risk factor analysis studies need to be done. This raw data alone simply shows that accidents happen and we should all take basic safety percautions etc.:cool:

Rexone
12-30-2003, 11:55 AM
jer's brother... :confused:

Boatcop
12-30-2003, 04:31 PM
Boat numbers vs. Accident numbers.
The reason that the 2002 numbers are significant is that in every year since 1972 (when the Federal Boat Safety Act took effect), the fatality numbers have been going down. Also during this time the number of registered boats has been going up.
When there is a spike in fatalities, like '02, we tend to take notice. The number of boats increased in about the same percentage as previous years. But in ALL previous years, the number of deaths has declined. In 2001, it was less than 700.
I agree that outlawing drunk boaters isn't over reacting, but saying someone is drunk when everyone knows damn well their not IS over reacting.
It's not up to me to determine when someone is drunk. As far as operating a boat or other motor vehicle is concerned, it's the state legislatures that say when one is drunk. Currently that is when a persons blood alcohol level is at .08% or higher.
While it's true that someone can be "Impaired" at a level below .08%, (AKA a cheap date) I, nor any of my officers, have never arrested or charged anyone below .08%, except where impairment was by drugs other than alcohol.
When discussing this issue with someone who sees nothing wrong with drinking and operating a boat, it's a no win situation. If a guy gets in a collision after he's been drinking, they argue that it was because "he was going too fast", "he didn't know the River", "it was dark", etc. etc. etc. Doesn't matter if his BAC was .08% or .18%. It CAN'T be the alcohol. Some people just don't get it.
Those who claim they can operate a boat just as well at .08% or so, need to get a clue. Try going to work and operating machinery at .05%. Then tell your boss "Hey, It's no problem. I do this all the time." See how far that gets you. I've heard statements many times from people we've arrested who say "I'm OK to drive the boat, but I sure wouldn't be driving a car right now."
Why is it that for commercial (professional) boat and motor vehicle drivers and aircraft pilots the limit is set at .04%? Surely they too can drive just as well at .08% than they can sober, right? Would YOU get into a limo, or a plane, or a cruise ship with someone who was "only" .08%?
Money? It's all about the money, right? If it was, the fines for an OUI would be a few thousand dollars or more. (A class 1 misdemeanor allows a fine up to $5,000) We'd charge a hundred bucks for the mandatory boating safety class, like traffic school. In reality the fine is around $500 and the class we put on is free.
(BTW Jim, our next class is January 10th For dates of other classes - AZ Boating Classes (http://www.gf.state.az.us/i_e/edits/boating_education.html) )
All the Point/Counter-point in the world isn't going to change some people's minds. They are still going to drink and boat. Maybe they'll go there whole lives never having a problem. But then again, maybe they won't.
It also ins't going to change the way we do things. We will continue to stop boats that aren't being operated safely, or are operating illegally and we will continue to arrest impaired operators.
If you boat sober because it's the right thing to do, because you don't want to get in an accident, or because you're afraid of getting caught by one of us, doesn't matter to me.
All that matters is that I don't get that call in the middle of the night to put on dive gear and go looking for bodies. Or have to tell the wives, parents, kids, etc. that their loved one was killed by an irresponsible idiot who felt that they were "OK" to drive a boat.

eliminatedsprinter
12-30-2003, 05:34 PM
Boat cop.
If the accident and fatality #s have dropped every year since 1972 even though the numbers of boats have grown and in 02 they have shown their first rise, it could be for many reasons. It MIGHT indicate that the effect of laws, improved medical care, ^ boat safety standards etc has stabilized and now things will change as the numbers of participants change. My point is that this raw # increase does not mean that boating is getting more dangerous or that any new changes need to be made. One years raw stats by themselves mean almost nothing and should not cause undue concern. The only thing they tell us is that these things do happen and we still need to watch out for our safety.:cool:

Wicky
12-30-2003, 05:34 PM
Money? It's all about the money, right? If it was, the fines for an OUI would be a few thousand dollars or more. (A class 1 misdemeanor allows a fine up to $5,000) We'd charge a hundred bucks for the mandatory boating safety class, like traffic school. In reality the fine is around $500 and the class we put on is free.
And there you have it!! The blind leading the blind. I love the power of suggestion!! I love your faith BC. Don't bother suggesting that it will jack your insurance rates up sky ****ing high or cause you to lose your drivers license when one gets an OUI in Cali!! Please BC, take one look into the trial lawyers books and you too, Boat cop, will be a believer too!!!! It IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY when it boils down to it. Unfortunately there are people like you doing your best, upholding the laws, unfortunately the people writing the laws are all about the money!!!!
Boatcop, please answer this. If you never wrote a citation for anything, would there be a job for you????????
Just answer the quesion yes or no please.
Out of curiousity what would be your next choice for a career??
Don't get me wrong. If someone is ****ed up they deserve what they deserve but, this whole DUI OUI thing has become a game for those in authority. Cat and mouse will never change. Some cats are nicer though!!! I think boatcop falls into this category but, not his compadres from what I understand!!!
I weigh 180. 2 beers and I am under the influence. Yeah right.
But its true. Might as well sniff paint I guess!!!

Boatcop
12-30-2003, 05:51 PM
Dave,
I've said that the boaters we encounter on the River are usually either little or no alcohol, or above .13 or so. That doesn't mean we don't encounter those from .08-.12, because we do. However the average BAC for those we arrest is still around .16%.
As far as the fatalities, the ones we've investigated have been moderate, around .11%-13%. Others, such as the ones investigated by SBCSO, I don't have the figures for, but know from talking to their investigators that they were all above the limit.
Others, such as the hit and runs, I'll never know the BAC, but have witnesses in all of them that say the operator(s) were seen drinking throught the day and night.
Do I feel that alcohol was a contributing factor in "ALL" of them? Looking at the totality, I believe they were. Take the one at Bass Point last year. This was a guy who was intimately familiar with the Strip. He was hauling butt in the middle of the night. Would he have done that sober? Could he have better interpeted the lay of the river and lighting? Could he have better judged the distance to the shore? A whole bunch of "coulds".
The one with the two girls earlier that year. Same thing. Could he have better judged the distance to the boat he hit? Could he have mistaken the running lights for shore lights? Would he have been going that fast if he was sober?
Same thing with the Party Cat into the cliff on Havasu. Would he have been going that fats? Could he have seen the shoreline better? Could he have reacted in time to miss it?
Some things that are [b]FACT[/b[], is that abilities like depth perception, periphreal vision, color differentiation, reaction time, etc. diminish at BACs around .04%. All things that are vital in boat operation.
The accidents above clearly involved a lack of all those abilities.
Can I say 100% that the alcohol caused the accidents, and they definitely wouldn't have happened if they were sober? No, I can't.
But what I do know, is that these kinds of accidents don't happen to sober boaters. The only conclusion is that the consumption of alcohol diminished the operators' ability to safely operate their boats. Almost all of us have had close calls while boating. If our abilities were impaired to the point where it took us 1/2 -1 second more time to react, we might not be sitting here typing right now.
That's a chance I'm not willing to gamble on. There's just too much at stake.

Boatcop
12-30-2003, 06:14 PM
Boatcop, please answer this. If you never wrote a citation for anything, would there be a job for you????????
YES!
I believe you're asking if I didn't write tickets, would I still have a job. My superiors wouldn't care if I didn't give out any tickets, as long as there were also no accidents and no citizen complaints. Would I still have a job if that were the case? Probably. Since patrol presence is the main reason people comply with the law.
We actually encourage our Judges to waive or reduce fines for boating violations, if the violator completes a Safe Boating Course. And a lot of the time, they do.
If there were no highway patrol, would we bother driving anywhere near the speed limit? Sure, we all push envelope while driving, both on the road and on the water. But doesn't your right foot instinctively raise at the site of a patrol car? Don't you tell your friends to sit down, and you back off the throttle a little bit when the patrol boat goes by?
When we reach that Utopia where we have 100% voluntary compliance with laws, rules and regualtions, maybe I'll need to check out Monster.com. But I don't think that will happen anytime soon.
I've been doing what I'm doing now, in one form or another, for nearly 30 years. But if I had to choose another career, it would probably be in Heavy Marine Engineering. Shipboard mechanics and such. (since that's what my major specialty was till I retired from the USCG.)