olds oiling fix

[sleekcraft76]

im getting ready to put a 455 olds toghther for my jet . i know about the oil problams with the olds. but to save some cash my question is can i just run some oil return lines to the pan from the heads or spend the big bucks at mondello for his oil restriction kit?

[fourspeednup]

Waiting eagerly for an answer to this...:D

[Back Forty]

I'll bite...
www.realoldspower.com
Mondello is retired. Some used car salesman owns the joint nowadays.
The latest bad ass Olds on the forum listed above is a 900hp 400 cube NA small block Olds. A factory block with batten heads. If somebody over there can't give you the straight scoop then somethings wrong. Actually this is a common question. Do a search over there and then ask any questions you might have.
good luck! :wink:

[malcolm]

If you make a good enough oil return system from the heads to the pan you're on your way. All Mondo's restrictors do is limit the oil to the cam bearings in the hopes that the crank will receive more. The Olds' large crank journals need a lot of oil to keep them from heating up and spinning bearings. Most people recommend the largest pan you can find (around 10 qts), and a high volume pump. I'm running an 8 quart pan with the HV pump and restricted pushrods. Only problem is the decreased oil to the rockers and valve springs could bite me one day. This combo ran hard all last summer with no problems.

[Back Forty]

I'm with Malcom. Trix are for kids. It's really a simple and effective solution that Malcom has described.

[scrappy]

I enlarged the oil return holes in the heads(bigtime) when I put my motor together and ran it this summer with a stock 5QT. Kept a close eye on the oil pressure and never ran out of oil. Thats all a mute point now though. Just finished tearing down the thing today and I guess I waited to long to winterize it. #3 cylinder crack big enough to put a fingernail in. This sucks, motor had 9 Hrs. on it.

[fleetimus]

I had my heads drilled in the rear, Then ran lines down to the oil pan. The only problem was the starter. I ended up putting a tee in the line and ran the line to the passenger side.
http://cartogra.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=11aa2faa-7ca7-4308-62d9-777c4bcb197a&size=
Hopefully this shows
Tim

[jrau]

I ran restrictors for about 20 hours. All I will say is after replacing the valvetrain, I went to return lines and not a hv pump but modified the stock pump for more pressure. so far NO PROBLEMS! Also after a modest breakin period, I am running a good synthetic oil. I do not spin over 5800 and it has smoked a many bow ties, and even though I tend to favor ford, fords too. My kids love to ride inflatable tubes ect. and this boat see's 30-45min. at 4800 to 5000. my oil temp is very stable and acceptable. With restrictors in this scenerio, they showed cracks and fatigue after just 20 hours. They also baked the oil at the cam bearings. Hell my distributer gear was even blue.

[GlastronGuy]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/395Tim.jpg

[scrappy]

jrau----good reply. I'm not saying anything bad about mondello or their products, but it seems to me that by restricting oil flow to any part of an engine does more hurt than good. Mostly by creating unwanted heat. My thinking is that a person should address the real problem which is getting oil back to the pan. This is why I drilled out the oil return holes on my heads. Also, I did'nt say in my earlier post is I drilled both front oil gallery plugs to .080 rather than having a .040 in just one ,(somehting I learned many years ago with bbf's) and still maintained excellent oil pressure(55 at idle 80 on the gas). My point is, oil restrictors will work great at the 1/4 track, but don't use them in an engine that is at high rpm for long periods of time.

[jrau]

after a 2 month debate on running a hv oil pump, the machine shop I (support), or use, and I came to the conclusion why if olds motors seem to be short of oil in the pan to begin with, why would you try harder to pump it dry. I just wanted a little more pressure to comp for a LITTLE looser clearances. A fresh water oil cooler is a must! and run it all day. We run this boat up and down the missouri river all day, even 15-20 min at wot. I am only running about 40psi oil but after 50 hours the bearings look great. I spent more time and money on pump work and a diverter with this , my second build, and have gotten improvement than I ever thought possible.
To sell anyone on return lines, just lood at their leaky valve covers. I fought this for 2 years, right up to when the lines were installed.

[sleekcraft76]

thanks ,i think return lines are a better way to fight this problam.something about restricting oil does not sound to good.
any more input would be great.

[Taylorman]

I used both. Another reason to use oil restrictors above the mains is because the main and rod bearings are so big on the Olds that thats where you want most of your oil. Don't worry about the top of the engine, it will get plenty of oil. Have you heard many olds owner have valve train problems. Not me and Ive been on this board for a few years now. I used main oil restrictors, lifter bore restrictors, 8 qt oil pan, hv oil pump and return lines from heads to the pan. No problems yet. Don't even so much as think Mondello, they are dicks over there, especially Lynn. You can get the oil pump, Moroso jet boat oil pan and pickup from Summit. Call Dick Miller Racing for the restrictors. PM me if you have any other question. Just my $.02.

[v-drive]

I would have to agree with Taylorman. I know the concerns of lack of oil before I built mine I was nervous to. After it was together we ran it for quite a while without a problem. Everything I could restrict I did, the holes in the olds pushrods are over .100 and on a 454 they're .060 and the cam bearings have a 1/8 th hole. The crank in an olds needs more oil and mines getting it.
Somebody made a statement a few months back that the olds was a torque monster and should be built with that in mind.
They don't do high rpms well for any length of time so if you're running yours over 5k for any length of time it's you that are burning that engine up and not the lack of oil and that's that
:cool: v-drive

[flat broke]

Check out this 455 oiling modification article (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0302PHR_Fortified/) written by Cyclone. The 455 in his rogers ran well and if you know Mike, you know that it probably spent plenty of time at WOT. Hope that helps.
Chris

[Wet Dream]

Mike, if you want longevity out of the engine...
Balance the rotating assembly!!!!
Large oil pan
Oil cooler
STOCK oil pump, stretch the spring if you want a little higher pressure
HV pumps defeat the purpose.

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by Wet Dream
HV pumps defeat the purpose.
Not if you run oil restrictors.

[Mark Sims]

I agree with Taylorman. If you burnt your motor up with restricters in it then you had other issues. Did you modify the main bearings?Chamfer the passages in the crank?Piston to cylinder wall clearance? rod side clearance? Any of these will create heat and destroy an olds quick. My oil restricted motor is apart right now for an oil leak that didnt exist come to find out but I figured as long as the motor is out I'll see what it looks like inside after 7 years. It looks like it did the day I buttoned it up. I run a HV pump,7qt pan and occasionally spin it past 5300 rpm to clear it out.I opened up the oil returns in the heads and never had any oiling problems. olds motors have large mains that create heat. High rpm will kill these motors if you dont build them right.

[Wet Dream]

Originally posted by Taylorman
Not if you run oil restrictors.
Very true. Just from my experience without restrictors the stock pump did not ever suck the pan dry with the added capacity and the cooler. With restrictors, the added volume would be a big help in keeping the crank well lubed. Another added insurance would be to go with the moly pump shaft.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Oh my god, not another olds thread(j/k);) Listen to all of these guys here. We've all been through the olds deal.
This the recipe for my olds.
balance
align hone
arp bolts (mains and rods)
standard volume oil pump(with spring stretch)
oil restricted push rods
10qt oilpan
timing @30 degrees
oiling clearanes-a must!!!!!
and KEEP IT UNDER 5000RPM'S
Thats what I run and she still holds together strong;)
396..........................Spit;)

[sleekcraft76]

got some numbers on the oil clearance numbers you use ? it shure would be very helpfull!

[Sleek26]

Originally posted by 396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
Oh my god, not another olds thread(j/k);) Listen to all of these guys here. We've all been through the olds deal.
This the recipe for my olds.
balance
align hone
arp bolts (mains and rods)
standard volume oil pump(with spring stretch)
oil restricted push rods
10qt oilpan
timing @30 degrees
oiling clearanes-a must!!!!!
and KEEP IT UNDER 5000RPM'S
Thats what I run and she still holds together strong;)
396..........................Spit;)
Maybe everybody is just assuming it is a given, but:
A.

[Sleek26]

Originally posted by 396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
Oh my god, not another olds thread(j/k);) Listen to all of these guys here. We've all been through the olds deal.
This the recipe for my olds.
balance
align hone
arp bolts (mains and rods)
standard volume oil pump(with spring stretch)
oil restricted push rods
10qt oilpan
timing @30 degrees
oiling clearanes-a must!!!!!
and KEEP IT UNDER 5000RPM'S
Thats what I run and she still holds together strong;)
396..........................Spit;)
In addition to the above. Maybe everybody is just assuming it is a given, but:
A. The crank should be cross drilled, chamfered, and hardened (tufftrided or whatever is the latest greatest methode in your opinion). As someone mentioned Synthetic oil can't hurt. Mines been runnin great for 4 years.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

RODS- .020-0.30
MAINS- .025-.035

[CrdStang]

396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
Uh, dude, aren't you missing some zeros there? thirty thou (.030") of clearance is what you call "rod knock". As for 3 tenths of an inch (.30), well thats likely to have some side effects...odd new crankcase vents and such..
Just kidding man, I know they were typos. Gotta watch 'em, someone who hasn't built an engine before might not know better.
Mike

[Taylorman]

Instead of oil restricted push rods like many have mentioned. I used restrictors in the lifter bores. You have to drill and tap them which takes a couple hours but they are alot cheaper.

[malcolm]

I've heard that restricting hydraulic lifters was not a good idea, but it's the way to go if your running solids.
If I had my way, I wouldn't restrict anything and I'd have 1" stainless lines going from heads to pan. :D

[Taylorman]

1", good god thats huge. I used 1/2 stainless tubing on mine.

[Mark Sims]

If you use the restricters in #2,3,4 main saddles you dont restrict oil to the lifters. I primed my motor with a drill before startup and it gets tons of oil up top for springs and valves and I use restricted push rods. After 7 years I tore it down and everything is cool inside. 8qt pan, HV pump, cross drill the crank and modify the main bearings. Clearances are critical for an olds to live.

[sleekcraft76]

mark , if you use restrictors in #234 and a hv oil pump can i get by with out using restricted push rods ?

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Originally posted by 396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
RODS- .020-0.30
MAINS- .025-.035
Sorry for the typo:( Loooooong day;)
rods- .020-.030
mains-.025-.035

[Mark Sims]

Sleekcraft, If you have good quality pushrods you could probably skip the restricted ones. Get at least an 8 qt pan. You can also enlarge the drainback holes in the heads by 2 drill bit sizes. Keep oil at the crank where its needed for those large main bearings, and you do that by restricting in the main saddles leading up to the cam. The cam will get plenty of oil. I've had the same cam and bearings for 7 years.

[Taylorman]

Question for an Old expert. I recently rebuilt mine and am still unclear on one thing. By restricting the pushrod, does that keep oil in the bottom just as restricting the main's does. I'm under the assumption that the oil takes two paths from the oil pump. One route goes to the crank and up to the cam, the other goes to the oil galleys which goes to the lifters. Is this correct.

[v-drive]

I'm not an old expert, i'm just old but that's exactly what happens. I used pushrods simply because I was able to modify them myself.I was fortunate enough to meet Dave Smith an old olds guru who helped alot. He is in northern california (Exeter)and his advice was to keep the oil on the crank and keep the rpm's under 5k...... :cool: v-drive

[malcolm]

In a 455 the oil passage leads to the main saddles. There it gets split to the cam bearings and the mains. The front main has the two other holes that lead up to the lifter banks. The cam restrictors just limit oil to the cam so the crank will get more. The purpose of restricted push rods (or lifter bores) is to keep excess oil out of the valve covers. Most people mix these things together, but they have 2 different effects. No one is limitting oil to the "top end" by using cam (or main) restrictors, unless the cam bearings are the top end. :D