Hydros vs flats

[Blown 472]

Since I am sucking up, I have more questions. I see hydros dont have cav plates, do they take a set or what?? is there any adjustment you make while moving?? and what is the diff in ride? is one more squirrly then another? :confused: :confused:

[BGMAN203]

THEY ARE 2 DIFFERENT BEASTS. YOU ALMOST CAN'T COMPARE THE 2.

[P-Money]

We have one of each and I've found the hydro a lot "easier" to drive. While its a sh*tload faster than the flat, it is easier to control (as long as your riding on good water). I agree with BGMAN 203, 2 totally different experiences.

[SERIOUS ISSUES]

the big differance is the hydro is designed to blow the tail out of the water and ride on its sponsons. you have little or no controle of the boat once you stand on the gas (point and shoot).
the flat bottoms have a cave plate to adjust the attitude of the boat, give you more controle and keep you in the water when you stab the gas.

[Fiat48]

The hydro also sits very low in the water and is easier swamped. As mentioned, you point it and it kinda goes that direction. Nothing for the left foot to do but less room for driver error which generally makes them more consistant. Definately more top speed. My opinion is that they are safer and more forgiving at speed.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
The hydro also sits very low in the water and is easier swamped. As mentioned, you point it and it kinda goes that direction. Nothing for the left foot to do but less room for driver error which generally makes them more consistant. Definately more top speed. My opinion is that they are safer and more forgiving at speed.
Can anything be done about the swamping dealio?? one of those plexiglass shields??

[78Eliminator]

Blown, what do you want out of the boat? I mean, I went through this before deciding to buy one or the other. But it's a known fact, if you are shooting for top end speed, a hydro is for you. It's also safer at speed. I "think" the flats come out of the hole harder. When I went to Lake Ming, both were scary fast looking, but the hydros damn near looked like they never stopped accelerating.
I know, the flat guys give you the "training wheel" jabs, but when it comes to all out speed, the hydro is the boat to have. I think that a flat might be a little bit more fun to drive cause it takes skill to man one, but if you just want to point and go real fast, the hydro is the way to go. Mind you, this is all heresay, but I have listened a lot and asked lots of questions and this seems to be the word on the street.....

[Fiat48]

Yes, the shields help. The Sangers that I know have to watch low speeds as water tries to wash in over the back, Maybe not all the hydros are that way. I only rode in one once. Didn't like it but it was o.k.

[Hud]

Thats the Word, point & shoot!

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Blown, what do you want out of the boat? I mean, I went through this before deciding to buy one or the other. But it's a known fact, if you are shooting for top end speed, a hydro is for you. It's also safer at speed. I "think" the flats come out of the hole harder. When I went to Lake Ming, both were scary fast looking, but the hydros damn near looked like they never stopped accelerating.
I know, the flat guys give you the "training wheel" jabs, but when it comes to all out speed, the hydro is the boat to have. I think that a flat might be a little bit more fun to drive cause it takes skill to man one, but if you just want to point and go real fast, the hydro is the way to go. Mind you, this is all heresay, but I have listened a lot and asked lots of questions and this seems to be the word on the street.....
I am looking for a lake hot rod, something that wont be in rough water that will haul ass, not looking to do any skiing or anything like that behind it. After reading about the flats they seem like alot of work and are touchy to set up (probably wrong??) I guess I am looking for something to drag race on the water so maybe the point and shoot dealio aint so bad.
Like I said before, I know jack shit about either of these boats that is why I am asking. Btw, thanks to all for their input.;)

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Hud
Thats the Word, point & shoot!
Meaning once you are going you cant turn or is there a speed cut off point with them?? like cruising out to a sandbar with it or is that just the deal when at wot??

[Fiat48]

To give you an idea of speed in the Hydro vs a flat. Jim Benson (Hot Blooded) was running 131 in his flat (River Racer record holder) in the 1980's. They pulled his motor out and put it in a new Fineline hydro and he went 150 on his 2nd run. I'm sure they went faster with some tuning of the boat/motor.
I think the flat is a better overall boat for lake use. The "set up" in a flat is all about getting the boat to set quickly and have the least amount of boat (drag) in the water for speed, yet stay alive while doing it. Balance. And it doesn't come easy, but that doesn't mean you have to do all the racers do.

[78Eliminator]

You gots to slow down to 30-40 to turn according to Wayne. Blown, just get a hydro!!!! Find a Sanger and we can help eachother out during the growing pains.....

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
You gots to slow down to 30-40 to turn according to Wayne. Blown, just get a hydro!!!! Find a Sanger and we can help eachother out during the growing pains.....
I have some phone calls out on a hondo hydro right now, beating the bushes for one that was around here.

[Fiat48]

Go ride in both. Then buy both. :D

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
To give you an idea of speed in the Hydro vs a flat. Jim Benson (Hot Blooded) was running 131 in his flat (River Racer record holder) in the 1980's. They pulled his motor out and put it in a new Fineline hydro and he went 150 on his 2nd run. I'm sure they went faster with some tuning of the boat/motor.
I think the flat is a better overall boat for lake use. The "set up" in a flat is all about getting the boat to set quickly and have the least amount of boat (drag) in the water for speed, yet stay alive while doing it. Balance. And it doesn't come easy, but that doesn't mean you have to do all the racers do.
Stay alive?? ok that leads me to another question I was watching some boat drag vids last night and the flats seem like a hand full and fly for what ever reason I dont know and the hydros seemed to pile up after losing a motor and pulling the front end up, am I off base here??

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Go ride in both. Then buy both. :D
After tonight when I am 210 million dollars richer:D :D

[78Eliminator]

Blown, I was funny about how the hell they turn too, but once you sit and look at one, you will understand.
At speed, the ass end of the boat is riding ONLY on the prop, and there is a rudder in the back. Now imagine turning the rudder at speed. There is nothing to pivot off of except the prop. If you turn the wheel, you will just rock the ass end of the boat back an fourth like a cradle. Now when you come off the gas, and the back end (which was at one point blown out and riding on the prop) is now settled in the water, your rudder now has something pivot off of to make a turn. Until you walk around the hydro and look at how it works, it's kind of hard to imagine.....
I go out to my little storage tent and hang out with my hydro every night, spend "quality time" with her......

[78Eliminator]

Blown, make sure it is a DRAG Hydro with OUTBOARD steering. The ski hydros are not as stable in the triples.....

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Blown, make sure it is a DRAG Hydro with OUTBOARD steering. The ski hydros are not as stable in the triples.....
Ok, Outboard steering meaning?? The one I looked at has cables inside the boat that go to the rudder, is that what you are talking about?

[P-Money]

Our Cole Hydro has outboard steering and doesn't turn for sh*t. The first thing we did when we got it was put a splash shield on it. When it slows down to an idle, the water comes very, very close to coming over the back of the boat. When its floating, rollers easily go over the back, so in my opinion a splash guard is a must.

[78Eliminator]

Yeah, the Hydro I bought off Wayne has a really killer alluminum splash guard that goes way up the boat almost to the drivers seat. If you want Blown, I can take it off and have another one made for you......

[Blown 472]

Thats cool, I have a sheet metal shop I work with that can whip something up. Thanks.

[Fiat48]

Yes, absolute outboard steering. The rudder is mounted to the back of the transom. Blown, you are watching race video's. The Hydro guys are also trying to get as much boat out of the water as possible. Short rudders, etc. You get too much air under either boat and it will want to kite. That's the edge. You don't have to be on the edge.

[78Eliminator]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Ok, Outboard steering meaning?? The one I looked at has cables inside the boat that go to the rudder, is that what you are talking about?
Exactly. I am just warning you that here are some Hydros that don't have the rudder outboard type sttering.
If the steering looks like this, don't buy the boat:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/16MVC-741F-med.JPG

[Blown 472]

Is this it??http://www.riverratlife.com/forums/board/ubb/flogos/norcal.gif
the red one, sheesh

[78Eliminator]

Here is my boat. Notice that all the steering is on the outside of the boat. The ruddler is not attached in the picutre but you get the point....
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/455Picture_016-med.jpg

[P-Money]

Outboard rudder at the top, hydro prop in the middle:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/540Hardware_Editted-med.JPG

[78Eliminator]

Sheesh, careful with that prop, you could cut your finger off! :D

[Blown 472]

Ok, I see. What is the deal with the inboard steering? ski hydro?? I thought they were all built to drag race.

[78Eliminator]

I believe it was for better control at speed, but less top end speed. More of the rudder is always in the water. I dunno, trying to market that hull design to a larger target market I guess.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
I believe it was for better control at speed, but less top end speed. More of the rudder is always in the water. I dunno, trying to market that hull design to a larger target market I guess.
So there is a speed limit on that style?? one question thou, if the ass is up on the prop and the rudder isn't doing much at speed why would it matter??

[Fiat48]

You don't want a ski hydro (inboard steering).
Typical Sanger ride. Note outboard steering. Note 3 point ride. Note driver fumbling for stereo control on dash. (I just had to say that.) Just kidding.
http://www.dragboats.com/gallery/images/02_04_IHBA_1467_199.jpg

[78Eliminator]

Disclaimer: I am shooting from the hip here:
I "think" then did not sell these things originally with tons of power. They probably did not come from sanger, ready to blow the back. Probably assumed the ass would always sit in the water so there is no reason to spend the extra money on an alluminum outboard steering system.
I know guys have thrown tons of HP in the ski hydros and made them fast, I have just been warned by some pros here not to.....
By the way, to blow the ass (not an sexual inuendo), you need at least 700 hp. I assume Sanger or any other hydro manufacturer was not selling them with that much balls out the door.....
(waiting for a someone who knows what they are talking about to step in this thread)

[Blown 472]

What determines how far the back of boat will come up?? the weight of the engine or is it a set up thing?? can it get to high?

[78Eliminator]

The length of the prop strut.

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Blown 472
What determines how far the back of boat will come up?? the weight of the engine or is it a set up thing?? can it get to high?
Where the strut is. How much lift is in the prop. Horsepower. Engine location. Back to balance.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Disclaimer: I am shooting from the hip here:
I "think" then did not sell these things originally with tons of power. They probably did not come from sanger, ready to blow the back. Probably assumed the ass would always sit in the water so there is no reason to spend the extra money on an alluminum outboard steering system.
I know guys have thrown tons of HP in the ski hydros and made them fast, I have just been warned by some pros here not to.....
By the way, to blow the ass (not an sexual inuendo), you need at least 700 hp. I assume Sanger or any other hydro manufacturer was not selling them with that much balls out the door.....
(waiting for a someone who knows what they are talking about to step in this thread)
Ok, say someone is looking to run in the 80 to low 90's can it be done with a ski hydro or is that axin for trouble??

[78Eliminator]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Ok, say someone is looking to run in the 80 to low 90's can it be done with a ski hydro or is that axin for trouble??
That one will have to wait for a real pro to answer.....I am waaaay to green with this whole hydro thing.:rolleyes:
Fiat?

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
That one will have to wait for a real pro to answer.....I am waaaay to green with this whole hydro thing.:rolleyes:
Fiat?
I think some of them are at cfw.:D

[Fiat48]

Sure it would work. But Why? Hopefully without pissing anybody off, nobody wants a ski hydro. I've heard speeds are limited due to that rudder placement. Buy what everyone else wants. A drag hydro. Ski Hydro's have always had a rather bad name with the hydro guys. We'll have to let someone chime in that has or had one.
Always buy like you're gonna sell tomorrow.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Where the strut is. How much lift is in the prop. Horsepower. Engine location. Back to balance.
Prop?? how? Do you need alot of hp? or can you offset with prop and location?

[78Eliminator]

Yeah. I am going to give my liver a break tonight. Besides, I don't like to drink on "rookie night". Tonight, I will take my lady to get some steak and lobster on the coast. What the heck....
After all, she did buy me "The Big Lebowski" dvd for chrismas...

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Yeah. I am going to give my liver a break tonight. Besides, I don't like to drink on "rookie night". Tonight, I will take my lady to get some steak and lobster on the coast. What the heck....
After all, she did buy me "The Big Lebowski" dvd for chrismas...
And this has what to do with hydros?? LMAO:D :D I did watch it last night too.

[78Eliminator]

I tried to post that right after you said everyone was at CFW but you and Fiat got a couple in and it made it look out of place.
Anyway, the advice Fiat gave you is good advice "Buy like you are going to sell tomorrow". That shit is priceless. I had no trouble selling my daytona jet for that exact reason once I listed it in the right place.
ps Are you going to leave the carlson the way it is for now?

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
I tried to post that right after you said everyone was at CFW but you and Fiat got a couple in and it made it look out of place.
Anyway, the advice Fiat gave you is good advice "Buy like you are going to sell tomorrow". That shit is priceless. I had no trouble selling my daytona jet for that exact reason once I listed it in the right place.
ps Are you going to leave the carlson the way it is for now?
Yup, single four carb, sun deck back on, hell I might even put mufflers in it and just cruise it.

[Fiat48]

I have very limited knowledge of Hydro's. Just general. I cannot supply any measurements or placements for the V drive, engine locations, strut locations. I do have 2 Sanger drag hydros here in town that work very well I can confirm placements on. You gotta get with the Hydro guys for that.
The boat I showed in the picture is working fine on Blown Alcohol. It was originally set up as a blown alcohol boat (Old Drastic Plastic boat). When it was blown gas, it was always tail heavy. A 3 blade prop was tried on this boat and it went nuts at 1/2 track. That same prop was sold to the other Sanger here in town. The boat loves it. Different set ups.

[Blown 472]

So if you pick up a boat that was running and all the stuff has not moved and you put a simliar motor in it will that get you in the ball park??
So will 78 have to play with engine location going from an injected motor to a mild 454 then to a blown motor??
Are there any hard and fast rules about setup, like if it does this you need to do this or do you try something first and go to something else if that didn't work?

[Fiat48]

Like I said, we need a hydro guy. I know there are differences in placements between unblown and blown hydro's. From what I have seen, a hydro that was set up originally for more power and is currently running less power will be tail heavy and take longer to blow the tail. That doesn't mean the boat doesn't work, it just means the boat won't work as well as it should. This is all race stuff and may not be critical to what you are doing.
You would always be wise to buy a boat you can see work, with similar power. My opinion is it is always better to buy a working, proven boat.

[78Eliminator]

Exactly. And although I bought mine minus the motor. I was able to watch video, talk to other people who have seen the boat in action and of course srutinize it's condition.
A proven boat will not leave you guessing......

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Exactly. And although I bought mine minus the motor. I was able to watch video, talk to other people who have seen the boat in action and of course srutinize it's condition.
A proven boat will not leave you guessing......
Ok, playing devils advocate now, a proven boat as in one just set up for drag racing? I am not looking for a drag only boat and wouldn't one that was running be worthy even if it where not set up for what the new owner intended or does that get back into set up and the whole deal? My thinking is and it probably is wrong that if you have a boat that is running but in a different capacity wouldn't you be able to make it do what you wanted? Sorry for the endless questions but I am kinda dense and have a cold.

[Fiat48]

How's this one for "free"?
:eek:
http://www.dragboats.com/images/classified/large/sanders_bryan.jpg

[Fiat48]

Where the Hell are the hydro guys to straighten me out? I would buy a hydro that had blown power. Cause it would be a heavier boat. And would have 1 1/8" prop shaft and heavier overall gear. Maybe it would be a little tail heavy or not as free as a light boat set up unblown. But I could always work my way up in power later or just leave it alone and be a little tail heavy. Or maybe I could change the engine location slightly or a different prop and help it. No big deal. I'm not out to set any records anyway, but I might want to bracket race it someday. How's that?

[Morg]

Let me start by saying I am a flat bottom guy, but I have some experience in hydro's, here's my deal.
Sanger built the "Ski Hydro" wider & with inboard steering.
Wider to take a victim.
The inboard steering will have a tighter turning radious on most if not all the outboard set ups out their. Which is more suited to lake use.
My dad's boat was a 76 ski hydro with inboard. It ran 114 through the lights at Ming on one weekend. After that it appeared weekly at Hogback island in the Norcal delta pulling skiers & whooping ass on pretty much everything it ran against.
I have driven Sangster's hydro a few times which also runs about 114 on gps. It also has inboard.
My point: For a lake hydro that is not going to see over 115 mph inboard works, But it is on the edge. My uncle ran my dad's hydro real hard one day & spun the thing at speed. If you kick the tail to hard, the prop. torque will spin the boat.
If you have your mind set on a hydro & plan on staying around 100 mph, inboard steering will work. But all plans change when you hit your goal mph the next step is to go faster.
And to further raise a doubt in your head. 9 out of 10 attempted runs by a hydro at the lake are abourted way before top speed. They require to flat of water to be able to run hard. Especially at v-drive gathering's where their a re a few boats running.
Our friend picked up a choice hydro from a somone who I'm sure enjoyed the hell out of it, But now that he has run the circle deal, I doubt he would switch back. I'm not saying hydro's are not kick ass, My herritage is huge with hydro's. I am simply saying the hydros are the top fuel dragsters & the circle boats are the formula 1 cars that may not be as quick but are capable of alot more.
But the main thing to remember is, It's god dam, un-American to not get what you want. Excercise your right to freedom of choice.
Whatever you get, someday you will be sitting in a lake just after a run, If you lift your hand up in the air & look at it you will notice a trembling in the fingertips from the adrenalin. You will ask yourself why you waited so long to get a v-drive.
Morg.

[Fiat48]

Wow! Great post! "Wider to take a victim." I love that! :D

[Morg]

Fiat,
Being that we live in the same town.We need to get together for a beer & tell some lies.
Morg.

[Fiat48]

Roger, that. :D

[voodooCanoe]

Well here is my .02 worth.
A ski hydro will work very well but it is VERY different than one with outboard steering. When you run outboard steering the prop is set back much futher, allowing the tail to "kick" and reduce drag, i.e. , Faster top end, more stable at those speeds. But, outboad steering turns for shit! The rudder is off center so it turns to the left better than the right. Either can spin out , because there is no turn fin, like one on a flat. I know of several
inboard steering boats running in the 115-135 mph range that are very stable, but convert those to outboard steering and you will increase mph very easily.

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by voodooCanoe
.... running in the 115-135 mph range that are very stable....
No offense but to run at those speeds with inboard steering you have to have balls that clank!

[P-Money]

When we bought our boat the rudder on it was too short. The guy we got it from said the thing was all over the place and he couldn't control it; reason being that he was blowing the ass end without enough rudder. Once we got the boat we got in touch with Braaksma and he set us straight. We got the boat minus power and transmission, found it on the boards here. We put power to it, but no transmission. So far everything has worked out fine. We left the motor in the same place. This is our first hydro and we are learning as we go and it sure has been fun. Here's a few pics for the hell of it.
Boat before we bought it:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/540Cole_2-med.jpg
We would have liked to buy it complete, but then what we do with the 575 Dart?!
Boat as it is now:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/540Dsc00802-med.jpg
We threw some fresh paint on it and a different motor. Although the hydro is great fun, I prefer my flat: handles the rough stuff better and is still capable of running high speeds.

[FLYTE RISK]

Where is darrin chrystal when you need him?? Quickshot could answer all your ????????? His runs very very very very HARD!!!!!! I would stick to a runner bottom they kill equally powered hydros out of the hole and pretty much the whole lake race. I.E 1/8 mile.. Just asjk Sangster a year ago.:D :D ha ha ha

[Kurtis500]

I'll give my .02 since I have both. The outboard steer turns very poorly. At Firebird, its turned all the way to the left well before the end of the island just to get it to go around. The inboard steer responds way better in steering but doesnt blow the tail like the other. The inboard steer runs 110 range and is stable. The boat was once ran in the old BFH class with dual inboard rudders at over 170. I cut one of the rudders off and it had no effect, even on the track. Still turns great, though it was better with 2 rudders. Although the outboard steer sucks at cruising speed, once its tail is up and running some mph the steering sensitivity is just right. I couldnt imagine a highly reactive steering at over 200 mph. One slight nudge and it may over-react.

[Fiat48]

Yeah the flat against the hydro fun till 1/2 track. Then the hydro comes on like a freight train! The hydro guys call it "The Big End." But the Hydro guy's think the flat guys are crazy. But not so. We all crazy, just a matter of degree.:D
I always wanted to mess with one of those little baby kurtis hydros.

[78Eliminator]

Once again, another awesome thread and great infomation!

[Kurtis500]

Originally posted by FLYTE RISK
Where is darrin chrystal when you need him?? Quickshot could answer all your ????????? His runs very very very very HARD!!!!!! I would stick to a runner bottom they kill equally powered hydros out of the hole and pretty much the whole lake race. I.E 1/8 mile.. Just asjk Sangster a year ago.:D :D ha ha ha
I dont recall the exact et's, but i think the TAH have it way over TAF's at the 1/8th mile. Once the tail blows, the hydro is gone. Jetboatguru would probably know about that better than I. Of course the TAH's run screw blowers too. Watching the TAF's make me nervous though. I've never driven one really fast, but always knowing they are an inch from a wreck keeps the crowd and me on thier toes. Wouldn't drive one, but I would drive a TAH.

[Boatmike]

Wow there is really alot of good info on this thread. I also have my own .02 cents worth or not really it's .03 cents worth. Like all of the fellas are saying it all depends on what you want to do with the boat and what you are going to use it for. The reason i say .03 cent worth is because i have had three different types of v-drive boats. If you just want to go to the lake on sundays and look cool and be able to run up to about 95 mph. and be able to run in rough water you might consider a 12 degree v-bottom that Hondo boats made in the late 70's. Kinda like this one.http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/524/755My_Hondo-med.JPG not easy to resell because it's not a race boat.
I also had a howard flatty that was alot of fun but real rough ride.
Now i have a Sanger "ski" hydro with inboard steering that runs 110 on gps with no steering control problems.http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/755PDC_0001-med.JPG although i must say at high speeds on less than perfect water i would rather have a runner bottom i think it provides the best of both worlds low drag in the water and more control of the boat in less than perfect water conditions i like having a pedal for my left foot i feel like i have more control and will be a little more daring. The hydro feels like you are on ice skates not that steering is any worse but it takes longer for the boat to decelarate. Also you not only have to worry about water rushing over the transome but also over the front of the boat in less than perfect at water conditions at low speeds. Oh well this is just another fellas opionon. P.S. I have also had two jet boats and a bayliner and by far the V-Drives are the Shiznit!!
Boatmike,

[Fiat48]

Good to hear from owners. Experience is priceless. I had no idea the outboard steering hydro's were that bad to steer. Morg covered the limits to the inboard steering. Seems the guys all think the flat is the best all around v drive boat even with it's bad points. The guys considering the move to a hydro for whatever reason certainly need to read this thread.
Blown 472, just send the guys a check for the valuable information.:D
I like Boatmikes avitar. I guess you'd call that visible means of support. :D

[Boatmike]

Hey that's my wife! That is what she has to wear when she rides in the boat to keep things together. LOL!

[Morg]

Originally posted by Boatmike
Hey that's my wife! That is what she has to wear when she rides in the boat to keep things together. LOL!
Nice!!!

[FlatRat]

Great source of info.Being since I'm doing a full resto on a 86 Sanger Ski Hydro and am looking foward to running it.However,I have only owned my Sanger Flattie for 3 seasons,and my exsperience is limited there. So this thread gives me some insight on what to expect on the handleing of the Hydro.Where do you get those splash guards for the rear?The v-drive forum rocks.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Why is it that the word "Hydro" lends everyone to assume drag boat. The circle hydro was racing long before drag racing even started. :confused:
So how bout it??? A circle hydro!! :D Buy or build a Grand Prix boat. Blown Alky running over 170, lake friendly and turns too.
Oh, did I mention these boats are generally 1 seat... some cockpit modifications may be in order.:D depending on your social status.:rolleyes:
But on a serious note... great post Morg.
Btw K-boats rule!!!

[Morg]

Happy new year Jerry,
PM me your phone number, or give me a call.
Flat Rat,
Sangster is the guy to talk to if your hydro has inbourd stearing, If he ever appears here again. Sangster & Paul (aka Tunnel Vision) did a couple of set up deals on his inboard stearing to make it work better, ie: Water pickup on the rudder & longer rudder.
And another thing on the inboard hydro. Just above plane I spun sangsters hydro when turning right & giving it a little throttle. The ass end was under water. The motor barely puuled the thing out. Just a little warning.

[FlatRat]

Water pickup on the rudder & longer rudder.
How long is long.The rudder that came with, seems a little short,13"s.It appears that it was cut off.Less drag?I have much to learn.:confused:

[Kurtis500]

I own a race only hydro, a 'lake/race' hydro, a Hondo flat, and a Howard daycruiser..all v-drives. The best 'all around' boat would be the daycruiser. Something with a lot of power and a tranny for extra speeds would work well. Its not the best of everything, but way more versatile for the regular boating that most of us do. The daycruiser can go fast, can carry children without worry, more comfortable, a lot more safe seating, reverses without worry of swamping, motor can be covered or isolated so no-one gets burned and rides the rough water far better than a flat or hydro. You can take your family out on the Parker strip during a busy Saturday and not worry like you would in a flat. If you can find smoother water the flat is WAY funner to drive than a daycruiser. Turns well, saves gas over the heavy cruiser, friends love it, pulls a skiier with a small wake(though I like the big ones), manuverable, just plain good looking and gives you the sense of driving a hot rod. I love hydros, but i just dont see a great advantage for them except on the race track, nothing else can run over 200 safely and consistantly. They steer funny in rough water at slow speeds. Also, the nose rides lower when under way making the big wave ahead of you more dangerous. But, this is just my opinion, I dont have a lot of experience driving many other boats of the same design.

[P-Money]

Flat Rat: Just buy a piece of plexiglass, cut it to fit you needs and have it painted. Thats what we did. Overall cost was less than $100.

[voodooCanoe]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
No offense but to run at those speeds with inboard steering you have to have balls that clank!
None taken.:)
But, inboard steering is just less efficient, than outboard steering,
not less stable. They just drive with more tail in the water, They
drive straight, Shut down straight, hole shot more like a flat, they just do it all a litte slower than a equally set boat with outboard steering.

[infotraker]

I have had a 68 Schiada flat since 68. I have loved the boat but it sure pounds you going over chop. I bought a 77 Sanger Pickle ski hydro (4 buckets, inboard steering, 468 BBC). Its great and we use it for skiing and flat out going fast (maybe 95 to 100 ). It steers ok but takes time to come around (can get back to skier ok). Rides great over medium chop but watch out when going slow thru chop, sometimes comes over front of boat. Not had any trouble with water over the back or sides, have plexi glass shield around back. We run both boarts at CFW , delta, Folsom Lake etc.

[Blown 472]

This is a very informative thread, lots more to these boats then I thought, just the fact of changing hp makes a diff to the way the boat runs is nothing like what I am used to, make more hp in my jet and it pretty much runs the same. Thanks for all the input.:) :)

[Big Proppa]

With regard to steering set up as mentioned earlier by 78 eliminator. I think it's all really personal preference vrs. boat intent. Are you going racing and don't want to give up the control, or are you going to the river. I have had the opportunity to own a hydro with each type of steering. The single seat center steer hydro with outboard steering road very well but was very difficult to turn in either direction. The inboard steer hydro as posted earlier by 78 turned on a dime and as far kicking the tail and loosing control - I don't know, I didn't own it long enough to find out but it had a 6 inch extension on the rudder and I think it made a big difference .
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/16image00.jpg

[mouzer]

Hey 78 E, do you want to go straight at 120 + go outboard,its safer, or do you want to be able to turn your boat,go inboard, ive had both also my outboard didnt turn worth a crap, my inboard was much more able to turn like my flat, now my boats only ran 100, so if your running under 125 or so who cares,dont knock inboard steering,look at the picture of big propas boat above do you think hes saying i wish i had outboard steering right now!!

[SANGER-RICH]

I thought that hydros did not have turning fins????????????http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/16image00.jpg
Also I have had a jet for over 20 years always loved the handling, but at the same respect always wanted a v-drive, love the way the look and how fast out the hole the are as well as top end. So I bought one, 1980 bubble deck flat, drove it and could not get it to set, I have been told you need a strong back to drive one , so when I came acrossed my 74 Sanger shovelnose hydro I thought WOW its like a jet one peddle not 3 and now Im taking the motor out my flat and putting it in the hydro, I will see which is better. I guess what im trying to say is I did what someone said earlier in this thread , IF NOT SURE BUY BOTH. When Im done one will be for sale without a motor, or both, I still have my jet.

[mouzer]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
Exactly. I am just warning you that here are some Hydros that don't have the rudder outboard type sttering.
If the steering looks like this, don't buy the boat:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/16MVC-741F-med.JPG You dont even know what your talking about.....they run fine,

[78Eliminator]

Yeah, well, if you would have read this entire post, you would know that I am merely repeating what I have heard on this very forum. And you are right, I don't know what I am talking about, that's why I was also asking for someone who "knew what they were talking about" to step in. Sound like you think that might be you :D
Hey man, happy new years!!!! :D

[superdave013]

Justin, how's the kitichen comming along? I've got all my dry wall /plaster done finally. Painting tonight and hanging the upper cabints tomorrow.

[78Eliminator]

SD, can you post some pictures? I have stripped most of the paint but I found some really bad electrical connections. My friend is an electrician and he is coming over to help this weekend. I don't want to plaster anything until I know it's going to seal up and stay sealed up. My house was a fire waiting to happen. Totally unshielded wire sitting in holes in the 2x4s. Sparks were flying when I was moving the wires around.
Anyway, like I said, post some picutures if you can and let me know what appliances you are going with as well as cabinets, floor and counter top.....
Justin

[SANGER-RICH]

Originally posted by 78Eliminator
SD, can you post some pictures? I have stripped most of the paint but I found some really bad electrical connections. My friend is an electrician and he is coming over to help this weekend. I don't want to plaster anything until I know it's going to seal up and stay sealed up. My house was a fire waiting to happen. Totally unshielded wire sitting in holes in the 2x4s. Sparks were flying when I was moving the wires around.
Anyway, like I said, post some picutures if you can and let me know what appliances you are going with as well as cabinets, floor and counter top.....
Justin
Is this about houses or boats. Oh I get it, it is a house boat.:D :D :DI did not know there was a subject for that here:confused: :confused: :confused:

[superdave013]

High Jack
Justin, We have 53 boxes of Kraft Maid cabnet stuff in my dinning room. Ughh We went with the Piermont Cathedral design in Maple with the Honey spice finish. Counter tops will granit Uba Tuba. It's a green with some other stuff tossed in. (really I just liked the name lol, looks real nice too). Floors will be porcelain tiles. Stove and fride will stay the same due to money issues. The dishwasher will be upgraged from the wife (hehe) to a Bosch. Hey, my bosch cordless dril & circlersaw kicks ass so we're thinkin the dishwaser will too.
I hear ya about your wiring. My house was built in 1945 and has nob and tube wiring. I have a whopping 60 amp main. Whoo hoo :rolleyes:
I'm running all new wire and putting in a new 200 amp service. I also found bare wires. Mostly in the light fixture boxes. I about shit when I found that.
My drains & water pipes all need replaced too. Working under my house just suckes ass. I barely fit! I hate to say but I've got many hours left under there.
You sound like me in the fact that you're doing it all yourself. I got some quotes and I do understand that contractors have to eat too. But there is no way I could pay someone that much. They wanted 1,600 to just demo the cabinets! Myself, MR Hammer and Mr. Pry bar got that done in one day. Then I was over welmend as I didn't know what to do next. From reading your post the other day I'm thinking you can relate.
If I was you I would totaly re-wire your kitchen now. Get it up to code and put in more circuts the you will ever need. Mine was all on one circut. Outlets and lights with NO GROUND all on one 15 A breaker! I'm putting in 6 seperate circuits now and even a GFI or 2.
Mine project started out as the project from hell. But a guy came over and schooled me up in the zen of dry wall & plaster as well as many other things. Now I have to say it's not going to bad at all. (under the house still sucks ass though) It's giving me the confidence to do the rest of the house.
I'll post some pics soon.

[FlatRat]

Big Proppa,
Where you bean?How's your project coming?What was the length of rudder before and after extention?Just trying to get an idea,mine is only 13".Did you tig weld it?:eek!:

[CircleJerk]

Originally posted by V-DRIVE VIDEO
Why is it that the word "Hydro" lends everyone to assume drag boat. The circle hydro was racing long before drag racing even started. :confused:
So how bout it??? A circle hydro!! :D
Btw K-boats rule!!!
OK, I'm convinced! I'll drive one this year at our Nosty circle jam! Any bets I wont?:p

[mfrey]

Originally posted by Blown 472
I am looking for a lake hot rod, something that wont be in rough water that will haul ass, not looking to do any skiing or anything like that behind it. After reading about the flats they seem like alot of work and are touchy to set up (probably wrong??) I guess I am looking for something to drag race on the water so maybe the point and shoot dealio aint so bad.
Like I said before, I know jack shit about either of these boats that is why I am asking. Btw, thanks to all for their input.;)
I'm new to this forum thing...I normally won't have a lot to say, but this is something I can comment on. I have a 71 Sanger Shovel with inboard steering. I have a BBC that dynoed at 610 hp...I ran 105 at 10.20 at NJBA...I've seen inboard steering hydros run 115 with no problem. I don't think it would be wise to go much faster than that. It does blow the tail about 3 inches by half track (per photos)...even with my big butt in it. It handles great and turns well. If you're only looking for a lake rod and may want to go to the races or what ever, I wouldn't recommend limiting your search to a hydro with outboard steering. Just my opinion...good luck in your search.

[SANGER-RICH]

Originally posted by mfrey
I have a 71 Sanger Shovel with inboard steering. I have a BBC that dynoed at 610 hp...I ran 105 at 10.20 at NJBA...
Do you have any pictures I have a 74 Sanger Shovelnose Im working and working and working on. Right now mine is ugly as hell, but she will be pretty soon. BBC LS7 650 HP, I will be taking it out of my 80 sanger flat that is for sale.

[mfrey]

Originally posted by SANGER-RICH
Do you have any pictures I have a 74 Sanger Shovelnose Im working and working and working on. Right now mine is ugly as hell, but she will be pretty soon. BBC LS7 650 HP, I will be taking it out of my 80 sanger flat that is for sale.
I'll try to send a photo...we'll see if this works...computers generally don't like me; the feeling's mutual. Mine was a basket case when I bought it 5 years ago. Almost every piece of hardware was butchered...the floor was buckled out of it...stress cracks everywhere. I dowled 96 holes in the stringers and basically started over. It was a great project and I had a blast doing it. You've posted pics of your's haven't you? The pics I've seen recently have brought back memories.
Let me know if this works. If not, let me know how to do it.

[infotraker]

I have a 78 Sanger Pickle fork ski hydro with inboard steering. It steers ok but maybe I can make it better. What is the desired rudder lenght below the boat ? Several times while going slow and turning the boat has taken a turn by itself, what causes this ?

[bonesfab]

superdave you da man. doing the house and the boat at the same time. v-drive cruisers all the way. seats 6, holds plenty of ice chests, and runs mid 80's with the stereo on. all with out getting wet.

[FlatRat]

Infotracker,
I have an 86 Sanger Picklefork ski hydro with inboard steering and the rudder length is 13''.Now I have done some checking and some say it's fine and
some say to add a few inches.I guess it depends on hp,motor placement ect.I haven't got it wet yet,still working on it.This thread has been a wealth of info..Where is your water pick-up?So much to learn so little time

[superdave013]

Originally posted by bonesfab
superdave you da man. doing the house and the boat at the same time. v-drive cruisers all the way. seats 6, holds plenty of ice chests, and runs mid 80's with the stereo on. all with out getting wet.
Hey, look what the cat drug in. Good to see ya posting.
I'm not the man. I'm working on the house and the boat is just sitting for now.

[mfrey]

Originally posted by V-DRIVE VIDEO
Why is it that the word "Hydro" lends everyone to assume drag boat. The circle hydro was racing long before drag racing even started. :confused:
So how bout it??? A circle hydro!! :D Buy or build a Grand Prix boat. Blown Alky running over 170, lake friendly and turns too.
Oh, did I mention these boats are generally 1 seat... some cockpit modifications may be in order.:D depending on your social status.:rolleyes:
But on a serious note... great post Morg.
Btw K-boats rule!!!
Ok, I finally found my pic of one..."Miss Nomer" started life as a '66 Hallet 7-Liter Hydro. In the late 80's, she was transformed by a woodworking/boating legend (topside only) into a pickle fork, but is the same below water. I acquired her a few years ago. It's sat for about 10+ years and hasn't been started. I'm planning on tearing down the motor for inspection...don't even want to turn it over. She's got a BBC with twin Banks Turbos and Casale v-drive. The hull is glass over wood, 20', has 4 stringers, a cockpit that seats 3 (sort of) and is built to survive a nuclear holocaust. I hope to get her back in the water some day...no time...always got stuff going on with other boat(s).

[Morg]

Mfrey,
That is the SHIT!!!!
I usually don't try to force my opiniun on anybody, But..
It is a moral & god dam religious imperative that you run that deal. It would be just plain un-american to not let that thing walk on the tips with tail high in the air.
You would knock everbody on their ass if you ran that at the lake.
Morg.

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

I'll second that!!:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Sangerboy]

Originally posted by V-DRIVE VIDEO
I'll second that!!:cool: :cool: :cool:
Yeah what they said:D That beast deserves and needs to be run in anger again:cool:

[FlatRat]

Sir,
how can you have that boat and NOT run it?We will help you.Can I get an amen?

[mfrey]

Originally posted by FlatRat
Sir,
how can you have that boat and NOT run it?We will help you.Can I get an amen?
Well, the newbee tried to answer you...but I accidentally made a "new thread" instead...oops...I tried to explain myself!
If someone would be kind enough to tell me how to post pictures like many of you do...I'll can scan them to a cd...then I'm lost from there. I have a lot of old drag boat photos taken in the pits at Oakland, Ski-Land, Modesto, Nimbus, etc...in the late 60's if anyone's interested. Thanks.

[Fiat48]

Go to this thread and see if that helps you learn posting pictures:
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37315
Maybe start a new thread with pictures from the 60's? Many of these younguns weren't around then.

[Tolly]

After reading this thread and seeing all of the posts about how hydros don't turn worth a damn it got me thinking. How do they get those big ass unlimited hydros like Miss Budwieser to turn as hard as they do at 180mph?:confused: :confused: :confused:

[wsuwrhr]

Originally posted by Tolly
After reading this thread and seeing all of the posts about how hydros don't turn worth a damn it got me thinking. How do they get those big ass unlimited hydros like Miss Budwieser to turn as hard as they do at 180mph?:confused: :confused: :confused:
Money.
Brian

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by Tolly
After reading this thread and seeing all of the posts about how hydros don't turn worth a damn it got me thinking. How do they get those big ass unlimited hydros like Miss Budwieser to turn as hard as they do at 180mph?:confused: :confused: :confused: Turns the size of Lake Mead :D

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by wsuwrhr
Money.
Brian Lord knows you'd know all about the MONEY THING!!! BLING BLING BRIAN, that's what I hear.:D

[wsuwrhr]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
Lord knows you'd know all about the MONEY THING!!! BLING BLING BRIAN, that's what I hear.:D
Uh huh,,, I didn't tell you, but I even have TWO UH boats in my garage.
Brian

[BILLY.B]

Originally posted by wsuwrhr
Uh huh,,, I didn't tell you, but I even have TWO UH boats in my garage.
Brian Don't you mean you have them in your BIG BARN!

[wsuwrhr]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
Don't you mean you have them in your BIG BARN!
I didn't want to seem too pretentious, but that is what I meant.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Brian

[BILLY.B]

The wife finally let you buy the Hondo. :eek:

[wsuwrhr]

Originally posted by BILLY.B
The wife finally let you buy the Hondo. :eek:
I have nowhere to keep the Hondo. If you let me keep it in YOUR barn for the time being, I could feasibly have a V-DRIVE ready for Needles. I can put the order in Monday.
Brian

[Liquid Invader]

Ok guys,
You have beat this horse to death. I have had a little experience with some of these boats.
1. The drag hydro is a drag hydro. Can't turn it,will sink in 2 seconds and takes a ton of HP to make it work right. Not a lake ride.
2.Ski hydro will turn at low speeds and will run over 100 very well. We had one that ran 132mph and was a good lake ride on smooth water.Still takes HP to make them go.
3. Flats? They are so touchy on the set up and HP, that they can be very dangerous in the wrong hands. Still takes a lot of power to make them take a set. Turn and handle great a low speeds. Most sit up enough so they won't sink.
4.Jets? Here is the kicker. Remember (lake ride). Run out of the hole strong, take rough water better than the others. And don't take a PHD in engineering to make them work right. Ok,Ok speed? Not a v bottom the weighs 800lbs. But a light gull wing or tunnel will run 100 with a reasonable motor.
I don't think any one needs to be running faster than that on a lake anyway. Just my opinion. Especially a boater with no experience.
Thats about it,
Later 383