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LASERRAY
01-02-2004, 01:01 PM
I know that this debate is older then mankind itself and I know that everyone has their favorites but why do you feel that the Powerstroke is better then the Cummings, or the DuraMax better then the Cummings, or Ford better then Dodge etc. I'm looking for a compelling argument between all three, and am interested in seeing which diesel maker has the majority here. I'll be in the market for a new diesel tow rig this comeing spring and i'll take these opinions into cosideration. Power, Room, Payload, Towing Capacity, Reliabiilty, Warranty all all factors so your thoughts are more then welcome, and sorry for the redundant argument, but I haven't seen a poll or thread on the big three diesels in a while. Thanks..:cool:

riverbound
01-02-2004, 01:10 PM
I own a powerstroke 7.3, I used to have a cummins but it was too noisy and too slow. I also like the quality of build in the fords better than tho others chavy does have a better tranny (allison)

UnionJack
01-02-2004, 02:37 PM
Dodge... no room or power
Ford... Good room, good power, solid axle nice, interior needs work
Chevy... Good room, good power, IFS, bad for offroad, interior great
Now I have a 2004 duramax, and the only thing that swayed me was the interior, and the chevy is the nicest

CA Stu
01-02-2004, 03:18 PM
My 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 w/ theCummins is plenty powerful (thanks to Banks Engineering), and the interior of my truck is plush. Leather, heated , power seats. The fit and finish is fine, and it has a lot of room (In the front seats, but that's the only place I ride)..
If you need seating for more than 3 big adults, you may be happier with a real 4 door tow rig.
I also have to be honest, I fell my trans is about to take a big wet shit in my face. Of course, that is my fault, I'm hammering it with way more power than it was designed for.
I reckon you can't go wrong with any of them, except the new 6.0 Powerstroke is having some teething problems.
I originally bought a Dodge in 1996 because they were holding their value at the time way better than the rest of the truck market. I liked it and decided to stick with the brand. I plan on running Dodge trucks as my tow rig from here on in.
The one time I had a real race with a Powerstroke, I walked away from it.
Thanks
CA Stu
PS I'd rather be Cummin' than Strokin' :D

HEATHEN
01-02-2004, 03:38 PM
I work for GM.The thought never even crossed my mind to buy anything else.My truck is loaded except for the tv option.A buddy of mine (ford guy) went hunting with me in it.He is on the fence over what to buy now.My choice was easy,I did not have a choice.

Jordy
01-02-2004, 03:50 PM
I've been a Chevy guy forever, growing up in a Ford family no less. I'm sold on the Duramax and I'm kinda partial to the tranny as I work for the Allison dealer. We're also the Detroit Diesel dealer (now owned by Dahlmer Chrysler) so they tend to frown on Fords, couldn't say much about Dodge. Chevy it is. :D

STV_Keith
01-02-2004, 05:27 PM
Assuming we are talking about current year models:
Ford 7.3l Powerstroke - now being phased out. Stock, makes ~210hp/420ft-lbs, comes with 3.73 gear w/optional 4.10. Modifications can take the motor into the 275rwhp/550ft-lbs range for <$2k, but full potential is only 350-400rwhp. Fuel mileage around 14-16mpg around town, longevity of 150k or so before injectors start going south. 300-400k for motor. Full size 4-dr cab has more interior room than the other 2. Last of the noisy diesels.
Ford 6.0l Powerstroke - the new motor. Stock, makes ~310rwhp/490ft-lbs. Upgrades can get that to 400hp, but EGT's are high. Reliability yet to be seen. Fuel mileage a little better than the 7.3, but still behind the Dmax and Cummins. Quieter than the 7.3, but new programming doesn't use the pilot injection, which makes it noisier than it could be. Already announced it's replacement of a 6.4l in 2005 or 2006.
Duramax - Seems to be proving it's reliability. 3 years out now and they are not dropping. The first year models had a few issues, but have been overcome it seems. ~240hp/440ft-lbs stock. Mods take it to 350-375hp/750ft-lbs pretty easily. The next step is injectors, which will bump it another 75hp/150ft-lbs, but then the trans gives up. Upgrades for the Allison are now available as well. Mileage typically around 16-17mpg.
Cummins - The quietest stock of all the quiet diesels now. Reliability unquestioned. Motor has been around for a long time, with the new models even beefier than the past. 1 million mile units are out there. Power ~280hp/495tq stock, with upgrades to go beyond 500rwhp/1100ft-lbs. New mods upcoming to go beyond 600-650hp/1300ft-lbs as daily driver. Stock mpg around 17-19mph. Better with mods.
Personally, having worked on them all, I would own a Cummins first, then a Dmax, then the Fords. Personal preference in the end is what does it for you.

LASERRAY
01-02-2004, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by STV_Keith
Assuming we are talking about current year models:
Ford 7.3l Powerstroke - now being phased out. Stock, makes ~210hp/420ft-lbs, comes with 3.73 gear w/optional 4.10. Modifications can take the motor into the 275rwhp/550ft-lbs range for <$2k, but full potential is only 350-400rwhp. Fuel mileage around 14-16mpg around town, longevity of 150k or so before injectors start going south. 300-400k for motor. Full size 4-dr cab has more interior room than the other 2. Last of the noisy diesels.
Ford 6.0l Powerstroke - the new motor. Stock, makes ~310rwhp/490ft-lbs. Upgrades can get that to 400hp, but EGT's are high. Reliability yet to be seen. Fuel mileage a little better than the 7.3, but still behind the Dmax and Cummins. Quieter than the 7.3, but new programming doesn't use the pilot injection, which makes it noisier than it could be. Already announced it's replacement of a 6.4l in 2005 or 2006.
Duramax - Seems to be proving it's reliability. 3 years out now and they are not dropping. The first year models had a few issues, but have been overcome it seems. ~240hp/440ft-lbs stock. Mods take it to 350-375hp/750ft-lbs pretty easily. The next step is injectors, which will bump it another 75hp/150ft-lbs, but then the trans gives up. Upgrades for the Allison are now available as well. Mileage typically around 16-17mpg.
Cummins - The quietest stock of all the quiet diesels now. Reliability unquestioned. Motor has been around for a long time, with the new models even beefier than the past. 1 million mile units are out there. Power ~280hp/495tq stock, with upgrades to go beyond 500rwhp/1100ft-lbs. New mods upcoming to go beyond 600-650hp/1300ft-lbs as daily driver. Stock mpg around 17-19mph. Better with mods.
Personally, having worked on them all, I would own a Cummins first, then a Dmax, then the Fords. Personal preference in the end is what does it for you. Thanks Alot Keith. That was extremely helpful. You are a very knowledgeable individual and I thank you for taking the time to reply as such.:cool:

DogHouse
01-03-2004, 10:59 AM
Gonna have to agree with Keith on this one! :D
I've never much liked Dodges, but really wanted the HO Cummins diesel, so I took a good look at the new Ram and ended up buying one. Who knew they made nice trucks too? ;)
The only thing I like better about the GM or Ford is that they have a real crew cab. The quad cab Dodge is small for adults in back. My kids are young so they fit just fine. I like the way the interior and controls are designed. The lights turn on when I turn the switch, not when big brother GM decides they should go on. The a/c is simple and just works, unlike the last auto system I had from GM where the damn thing was always trying to outsmart me and usually didn't work right. I like things simple so the Dodge fits me. I also like the way the suspension and chassis is designed. Most components seem to be tucked up high, out of the way for good off road clearance. The front end is solid axle, easy to lift, but has enough locating links so that it steers well. Stock it sits high enough to easily clear 33" tires on 9" rims (what I run). Even the 315/70/17 BFGs will fit, but look better if the truck is lifted a couple of inches. 34 gallon tank in the short bed gives excellent range with the diesel. So far in the first 4k miles, I've run into zero issues. That puts it way ahead of the last GM truck I owned, which already had been to the shop a couple of times by this point. Time will tell, but this truck, powertrane, and warranty give me a lot more confidence than the GM ever did.
-brian

Havasu Cig
01-03-2004, 06:40 PM
You list the Duramax as having 240 hp and the Powerstroke at 310 hp (6.0).
I realize this is probably hp at the crank, but our Duramax is rated at at 300 hp, and our 6.0 Powerstroke is rated at 330.
How can the 6.0 only lose 20 hp from the crank to the rear wheels, and the Duramax lose 60 hp???

LASERRAY
01-03-2004, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Cig
You list the Duramax as having 240 hp and the Powerstroke at 310 hp (6.0).
I realize this is probably hp at the crank, but our Duramax is rated at at 300 hp, and our 6.0 Powerstroke is rated at 330.
How can the 6.0 only lose 20 hp from the crank to the rear wheels, and the Duramax lose 60 hp??? You Have Both? Ok, You Officially Suck!:D Just Kidding!:D Thanks for your helpful reply!:)

STV_Keith
01-03-2004, 10:27 PM
Just what we have seen from stock trucks on the dyno. It's pretty well known that the Allisons absorb a lot of power.

vdrivenman
01-04-2004, 05:52 AM
we drive dodge for several reasons. one is wife's sister is a district manager with damlier corp. so we get a very good deal on them.
we had an 2001 1 ton dually cummins pulled great,nosiy & very rough riding. went to the 2003 3/4 ton hemi ran good, quite,but when we got into the mountains on vacation found it to be a BIG mistake. actually tore the drivetrain up on the trip.
so dodge bought the truck back and we now have a 2004 one ton dually with the H/O cummins. i am impresssed, it is quite and seems to have plenty of power and we have not had it flashed yet, which we will do after getting some miles on the truck.
friends own a chevy duramax with the allison and travel extensively he swears by it.
we love our dodge !

bigq
01-04-2004, 09:17 AM
I just bought my first diesel and took the advice of STV and some others and went with the cummings, trading in my problems with the Ford supercrew 5.4 gas. The Dodge is smaller in the rear, but plenty big enough for my two kids. It's a little louder on the freeway, but not bad at all. I also looked at the chevy and ford, but was pissed at Ford at the moment so screw them and the chevy just seems cluttered, Jordy seems to love his though:D . Plus I have a friend at the dealer and got a killer dealeo.:D
Shameless dealer plug!!
If ya need a truck try this place they were great to deal with with a great selection.Frahm Dodge (http://www.frahmdodge.com/) ;)

Havasu Cig
01-04-2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by LASERRAY
You Have Both? Ok, You Officially Suck!:D Just Kidding!:D Thanks for your helpful reply!:)
Our 6.0 is in the process of being taken back by Ford (lemon). They should have our check soon so we can turn it in. We just picked up the Chevy about a week ago. So far so good.:cool:

Speedin' Ian
01-04-2004, 10:40 AM
I have driven bith the ford and the chevy and I would go for the Superduty. They have the most power, the most room of the true four doors and the drivetrain is bullet proof (ie. axles, suspension). Also I think they look the best, but that is personal preference. I know the 6.0 was having some problems when they first came out, but everyone I know with one (about 8 people) loves it, and has had no problems, plus my friend is a service rider for ford and specialized in transmissions at MIT and he said that the new trans is very strong.
I think the chevy has the best ride and the most comfortable interior hands down, plus the diesel is very quiet (though I love the sound of the turbo in the 6.0). I just don't like the suspension. I have a 200 Superduty and was able to lift it 4in. for a couple hundred bucks and it only took my brother and I 4 hrs to install it. I don't think the same can be said for a Chevy. In the end I think you should drive them all and pick the one you liked the best.

STV_Keith
01-04-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Speedin' Ian
I have driven bith the ford and the chevy and I would go for the Superduty. They have the most power, the most room of the true four doors and the drivetrain is bullet proof (ie. axles, suspension).
Note: If you have a Superduty and tow - go look at your rear diff cover. Does it still have any paint on it or is it just "rust" looking? The paint starts to boil off when fluid temps hit 300*F. That's BAD for the fluid, and the diff cover is the first sign of it.
Almost every Ford has this problem. Their rear axles are known for having problems due to this.
There is a fix though. Purchase a Mag Hytec rear diff cover and use synthetic fluid. The MH diff cover will increase the capacity by almost 100%, plus has drain and fill plugs. This means if you do it yourself, no more pulling the rear cover and getting that smelly crap everywhere. Just pull the plug, drain and refill. It also has a magnet on the drain AND the dipstick.
The cover is made from 3/8" cast aluminum w/cooling fins. Between the heat sink feature of it, and the extra capacity, it can help save your rear diff in a Ford.
Something to consider.

Speedin' Ian
01-04-2004, 04:48 PM
Thanks for the advice STV_Keith I will look into that. I have the V10 in mine and it tows great, with no problems. I wonder if anyone on these forums has had problems with axles in their Superduty, because I have never heard of that.

jackpunx
01-06-2004, 01:37 PM
Well over the last two days I driven the Duramax and the powerstroke. I was not very impressed with the Duramax. The power was not there like the ford and it was a tight bouncy ride compared to the ford.. It was not at all what I was expecting.. Also the interior seemed a little on the tight side as well. I’m going to drive the dodge.. but it s looking like Ford so far

JetBoatRich
01-06-2004, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by jackpunx
Well over the last two days I driven the Duramax and the powerstroke. I was not very impressed with the Duramax. The power was not there like the ford and it was a tight bouncy ride compared to the ford.. It was not at all what I was expecting.. Also the interior seemed a little on the tight side as well. I’m going to drive the dodge.. but it s looking like Ford so far
:D
What did you drive, the F-250?

jackpunx
01-06-2004, 01:49 PM
Yea.. I drove the short and the long bed.. I was really impressed. But with my truck sitting next to it.. it looked small.. And then I realized how much work I had to do to get it to look like mine.. And that I currently have no payments.. it keeps getting harder to swallow.. But the Ford is the shit.. Also.. Ford was much more willing to work with me as far as modifications. GM didn’t want to budge on the price, modifications or anything.. I felt like I had a lot more choices with the Ford.

Havasu Cig
01-06-2004, 03:13 PM
That is strange about the ride. Our new 2500 HD 4x4 rides better than my 1999 F-250, 2002 F-350, and 2003 Excursion. All were diesels. I think the IFS gives a better ride than the straight axles on the Fords IMO.
I also like the interior on the Chevy better also. More comfortable, and a little more high tech if you ask me. The On Star is bitchen with the voice activated phone ect... and the driver information center is the $hit.
I won't go into the three level heated seats with exit / entry feature, driver recognition that adjust the radio station / XM, mirrior position, seat position, temperature with dual climate zones ect...
:D :D :D

mbrown2
01-06-2004, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by STV_Keith
Note: If you have a Superduty and tow - go look at your rear diff cover. Does it still have any paint on it or is it just "rust" looking? The paint starts to boil off when fluid temps hit 300*F. That's BAD for the fluid, and the diff cover is the first sign of it.
Almost every Ford has this problem. Their rear axles are known for having problems due to this.
There is a fix though. Purchase a Mag Hytec rear diff cover and use synthetic fluid. The MH diff cover will increase the capacity by almost 100%, plus has drain and fill plugs. This means if you do it yourself, no more pulling the rear cover and getting that smelly crap everywhere. Just pull the plug, drain and refill. It also has a magnet on the drain AND the dipstick.
The cover is made from 3/8" cast aluminum w/cooling fins. Between the heat sink feature of it, and the extra capacity, it can help save your rear diff in a Ford.
Something to consider.
Keith, do these same issues exist on the F150? I know in the first year, mine started to rust...I had Ford repaint it..not thinking anything of it....it has not rusted out in over a year, and I had my fluid changed recently....Would the changing of the Mag Hytec diff cover also help a F150 with 4.56 gears and the 5.4?

y2kboti
01-06-2004, 08:04 PM
LASERRAY no matter what any of us say you need test drive all 3 and see which one suits you best. I myself am a GM/Duramax fan. We have an '02 2500HD and a '04 3500 Dooley in the family, I will be ordering an '04 3500 CC 4x4 Long Bed SRW in the coming months. Half the miles on the '02 are from pulling a 14k lbs + fifth wheels all over the states. They dealer is replacing the injectors but it's covered under warranty and the dealer has been very cooperative so we can't complain. The Allison transmission,simply put is AWESOME! Supposedly the Ford TorqShift tranny is almost a replica of the Allison with the exception on the 1st gear ratio. I use to be one of those "bag of Ford/Dodge" guys but in all honesty all 3 are very competent trucks.
Just to clarify a few things:
Originally posted by STV_Keith
Ford 6.0l Powerstroke - the new motor. Stock, makes ~310rwhp/490ft-lbs. Upgrades can get that to 400hp, but EGT's are high. Reliability yet to be seen. Fuel mileage a little better than the 7.3, but still behind the Dmax and Cummins. Quieter than the 7.3, but new programming doesn't use the pilot injection, which makes it noisier than it could be. Already announced it's replacement of a 6.4l in 2005 or 2006.
The 6.0 DOES NOT make 310rwhp, no engine makes what the manufacturers claim at the rear wheels. To be fair to everyone and since it wasn't mentioned the Ford 6.0 has had excessive problems. Again, to be fair to Ford, supposedly they have corrected most of the problems found on the '03 engines, the '04s from are much better. There is no truth to the rumor of Ford replacing the 6.0 with a 6.4 anytime soon.
Duramax - Seems to be proving it's reliability. 3 years out now and they are not dropping. The first year models had a few issues, but have been overcome it seems. ~240hp/440ft-lbs stock. Mods take it to 350-375hp/750ft-lbs pretty easily. The next step is injectors, which will bump it another 75hp/150ft-lbs, but then the trans gives up. Upgrades for the Allison are now available as well. Mileage typically around 16-17mpg.
Yes the '01s had some problems but like Ford many of the problems were corrected for the '02 year. The current Duramax LB7 make 300hp/520ft-lbs, if you want more power check out the new Duramax LLY which makes 310hp/590ft-lbs. GM took a page out of Fords book are is now using a variable nozzle turbocharger. They have addressed the main concern of Duramax owners by redesigning the injector setup. Injectors should no longer be an issue. With a chip and other modifications guys are seeing well over 400hp, some into the 500hp range. Mileage varies but most are reporting just under 20mpg. The Allison is really the limiting factor, I'm sure it's the same for Ford since the TorqShift is so similar.
Not sure if you plan on lifting your truck LASERRAY but someone said it is less expensive to lift a Ford. That use to be the case but compare the price of a Donahoe Racing Edge lift to just about any IFS lift kit and they are very comparable. In some cases the bigger Edge kits are more so don't be fooled. In the end it comes down to personal preference some prefer the SFA and open cabs of Fords, others prefer IFS and passanger friendly GM interior. Go for a ride and see what suits you best.
On a side note. The neighbor down the street just picked up a Ford, I look forward to taking it around the block.

Jordy
01-06-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Havasu Cig
I won't go into the three level heated seats with exit / entry feature, driver recognition that adjust the radio station / XM, mirrior position, seat position, temperature with dual climate zones ect...
:D :D :D
As far as the dual climate, I'm having fun with it on my '04 Duramax. My '02 doesn't have it and quite frankly the temp is a little easier to deal with and adjust on day 1 into this deal. With the dual climate, I had my side set on 90 and the passenger side set on 60 today because I was trying to create a thunderstorm or tornado just to see if it could do it when the hot air met the cold.
As far as a previous post with the Ford and the bullet proof drivetrain, I think you're confused. That would be the Chevy/GMC with the tried and true Allison. I've yet to hear anything spectacular regarding the new 5 spd Ford auto from the durability/longetivity side of the coin. Yeah they're working out the bugs on the 6.0 motor as far as the injector problems and whatnot, but I do believe in '05 it's slated to be replaced again by a new troublesome untested 6.4 (at least that is what I was told) motor. Maybe the crank splitting won't be such a problem when you try and turn it up a little bit. :D

STV_Keith
01-06-2004, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by mbrown2
Keith, do these same issues exist on the F150? I know in the first year, mine started to rust...I had Ford repaint it..not thinking anything of it....it has not rusted out in over a year, and I had my fluid changed recently....Would the changing of the Mag Hytec diff cover also help a F150 with 4.56 gears and the 5.4?
Sorry MB2, I'm not familiar with the axles they put in the F150 at all. May be the same, may not. I would think if the paint is bubbling off, it's from heat. Borrow or buy an infrared thermometer and see how hot the cover is after you tow next.

Party Cat
01-06-2004, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by y2kboti
.......if you want more power check out the new Duramax LLY which makes 310hp/590ft-lbs. GM took a page out of Fords book are is now using a variable nozzle turbocharger. They have addressed the main concern of Duramax owners by redesigning the injector setup. Injectors should no longer be an issue. With a chip and other modifications guys are seeing well over 400hp, some into the 500hp range. Mileage varies but most are reporting just under 20mpg.
Are these #'s for the new LLY motor ????
If so, I'm curious to where ya got them....I have heard that there are only a few LLY's on the street and they have only been there for a week maybe 2.....
Don't forget that along with the 10 more hp and extra torque, they now all have cats and also EGR......

JetBoatRich
01-06-2004, 09:13 PM
Thanks STV, I will be looking everyone's rearend now:(
their truck that is to and look for the rust.
May have to look into the change/upgrade for my F-350:rolleyes:

y2kboti
01-06-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Party Cat
Are these #'s for the new LLY motor ????
If so, I'm curious to where ya got them....I have heard that there are only a few LLY's on the street and they have only been there for a week maybe 2.....
Don't forget that along with the 10 more hp and extra torque, they now all have cats and also EGR......
Yes the 310hp/590ft-lbs applies to the new LLY. I don't know the exact production date but they recently went into production and while there are pictures of the LLY I have yet to see one on the streets. Some maybe quick to say it will be nothing but problems but this is not a brand new engine, the just redesigned a few parts of the exsisting Duramax to make it better. Here is the Official Release (http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=2080). Party Cat being that we live in California all Duramax's sold in this state have come with Cats since they were introduced. Doesn't really bother me. The numbers I posted about upgrades were applicable to the LB7s. We have yet to see the fll capability of the LLY. In addition the Allison received some upgrades to handle the extra hp/tq.

Jordy
01-06-2004, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Party Cat
I have heard that there are only a few LLY's on the street and they have only been there for a week maybe 2.....
I still haven't been under my '04 yet as I got tied up working today... :rolleyes:
I do know that I played hell trying to keep up with my '02 yesterday with my girlie driving it and she wasn't railing on it either... :D

Party Cat
01-06-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by y2kboti
We have yet to see the fll capability of the LLY.
Or the possible disadvantages.....I hear that EGR and Diesel don't get along too well....Just what I heard.....
I'm very happy with my 04 LBY motor.....I should be around the 350-375 rwhp with the few mods I've already done....I'm sure there's alot more in it too......The limiting factor for me on the hp will be the reliability of the tranny.....more power is always nice, but also has a price.....

Party Cat
01-06-2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by jordanpaulk
I still haven't been under my '04 yet as I got tied up working today... :rolleyes:
So get yer ass out there and check it out.....I'm sure ya got nothin better to do at this time of the night :D :D

Jordy
01-06-2004, 10:20 PM
Hey PC, I do know a good tranny guy. Actually I know quite a few of them. OK, I have a whole shop full of guys who do pretty much nothing but Allison work... :D

Jordy
01-06-2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Party Cat
So get yer ass out there and check it out.....I'm sure ya got nothin better to do at this time of the night :D :D
It's cold outside, and I have a beautiful girl in my warm bed so it's not much of a choice... :D

Speedin' Ian
01-06-2004, 10:33 PM
As far as a previous post with the Ford and the bullet proof drivetrain, I think you're confused.
No my friend I was not confused when I said that. First off I have never heard of any problems with the axles or suspension on the Superduty. Secondly, the new trans is very reliable and strong. And thirdly I have never heard of a crank shaft splitting on the new motor, does that mean it has never happened? No. But I'm sure it is not a common problem.
The 6.0 DOES NOT make 310rwhp, no engine makes what the manufacturers claim at the rear wheels.
If this is the case than I'm sure the rule applies to the numbers you quoted on the Duramax diesel
Not sure if you plan on lifting your truck LASERRAY but someone said it is less expensive to lift a Ford. That use to be the case but compare the price of a Donahoe Racing Edge lift to just about any IFS lift kit and they are very comparable. In some cases the bigger Edge kits are more so don't be fooled.
If you compare a 4 or 6in kit for both trucks installed from the same manufacture I can assure the Chevy would be more exspensive.
The Ford, Chevy argument is as old as any out there and I suspect it is quite difficult to change someones opinion who is firm in there beliefs, so why try. That said, I would bet on the ford any day of the week in a race of comparably equiped stock trucks, both straight line and hauling.

Jordy
01-06-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Speedin' Ian
No my friend I was not confused when I said that. First off I have never heard of any problems with the axles or suspension on the Superduty.
I'll give you that as I haven't heard of problems in those particular areas. I've just never been a big fan of the solid front axle since I sold my '73 Chevy Blazer. I do believe you get a better ride when each of the wheels can react independantly to whatever bumps are on the road. Lifting cost is another topic. Personally, I do think if you're going to throw a 12" lift on anything you may as well do it with a 1/2 ton as you're wrecking a perfectly good truck. I squeezed my 285's under my truck without a lift and I can still use the bed, hook up to a gooseneck and pull bumper pull trailers without a 10' drop hitch.
Secondly, the new trans is very reliable and strong.
I haven't heard that yet. From what I've seen the results have been luke warm. Nothing but problems if you're hauling any kind of weight on a regular basis.
And thirdly I have never heard of a crank shaft splitting on the new motor, does that mean it has never happened? No. But I'm sure it is not a common problem.
I've come to understand it's a pretty common problem on some of the earlier motors when you start cranking the power up a little bit.
Like you said, the Ford and Chevy argument can go on and on. They each have their goods and bads and never will everyone agree. I'd say it's all in what you're looking for and what suits your needs. :D

Speedin' Ian
01-06-2004, 10:52 PM
Well Jordanpaulk, I'm glad we can agree and disagree without getting in one of these pissing contest. I agree, the Chevy rides better, and I also I agree a huge lift is a waist. My dad and I both have 4in. lifts on ours, so we are able to tow our boats and fifth wheel. My dad actually tows doubles with his 04 powerstroke so I guess we will see how that trans works out.

y2kboti
01-06-2004, 11:13 PM
Speedin' Ian Ford has had their share of suspension problems as has GM. To prove my point; I don't remember the year models off hand but at one point Ford was installing D50s up front, needless to say they ended up going with D60s a few years later because of axle problems. In addition there are numberous upgrades(hubs, axle shafts, etc) available for the current D60 to beef it up(see Dynatrac.com). Don't get me wrong SFA has proven to be a good setup but it's far from 'bulletproof'. GMs problem is the half shafts, at extreme angles the inner joints tend to break. Just like a SFA for the right amount of $$$ you can buy beefed up half shafts or a set of cornay CVs that will take all the angle and hp you can throw at them. About the cost of a SFA lift vs. IFS. Again to prove my point take a 4" Edge hanger lift @ $1300 and compare that to a 6" RCD kit @ $1400. Not much of a difference. Now take a 6" Edge kit @ $1650 and it's $200 more, just goes up from there. I know there are difference brands for each out there and different prices but my point being in some cases a SFA can cost you more. Yes the arguement is old as Molasses I woulld bet money on GM but no matter what it's all in good humor and they are all competent trucks in the end.
As a final thought Ford went to IFS on their F-150, you knows it's just a matter of time before the SuperDuty is converted to! :D ;)
Edit: Speedin' Ian is it possible to get some pictures of your 4" lifted SuperDuty hooked up to the fifth wheel? I looking for guys like you and your father to compare if a 6" lift on a HD will still allow me to pull a fifth wheel. What size tires are you running? Any idea how tall your bed rails, tailgate and fenders measure?
Edit 2: Your tranny should be fine pulling as long as your not putting out a ton of hp/tq over stock.

STV_Keith
01-06-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by y2kboti
Just to clarify a few things:
The 6.0 DOES NOT make 310rwhp, no engine makes what the manufacturers claim at the rear wheels.
The current Duramax LB7 make 300hp/520ft-lbs, if you want more power check out the new Duramax LLY which makes 310hp/590ft-lbs. GM took a page out of Fords book are is now using a variable nozzle turbocharger.
With a chip and other modifications guys are seeing well over 400hp, some into the 500hp range. Mileage varies but most are reporting just under 20mpg.
Hello Y2kboti. Never seen you on the boards before, so I'll be gentle here. :)
First, "no engine makes what the manufacturers claim at the rear wheels"? Ever heard of an F-body? That was the Camaro/Firebird platform. Many, if not most of the current models, while rated at 305-320hp, were routinely making in the 310-330rwhp range in STOCK trim. That being said, we'll get back to the truck at hand...2004 6.0l Powerstroke. The proof is:
http://www.speedcraving.com/stv/misc/60powerstroke-hp.jpg
The current Duramax's make in the 240-250hp range. The Allison seems to be power hungry. 400hp is relatively easy, if you don't mind sacrificing some streetability, 500 is doable with a few even above 600rwhp currently, with drugs (nitrous and/or propane).
And I don't think that GM stole any pages from Ford...it's probably that since Garrett offers the VGT turbo to Navistar for the 6.0, why not offer it to GM for the 6.6 Dmax as well. It's the technology that's coming around, not the automaker.

y2kboti
01-06-2004, 11:54 PM
The hp/tq claims of a truck are a different animal than a muscle car. Compare the power bands, redline, hp to tq. ratio, etc. FYI most stock 6.0 owners are seeing around 270-280rwhp so I still stand by what I said. If you do not believe me feel free to look around on some Ford sites. The stealing a page part was just a figure of speech. The VGT seems to be working quite well for Ford, I'm glad to see GM incorporate it into their design. I have yet to see any Dmax's close to 600hp but who knows; anything is possibly if you have the $$$.

Party Cat
01-07-2004, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by y2kboti
The hp/tq claims of a truck are a different animal than a muscle car. Compare the power bands, redline, hp to tq. ratio, etc. FYI most stock 6.0 owners are seeing around 270-280rwhp so I still stand by what I said. If you do not believe me feel free to look around on some Ford sites.
To the best of my knowledge, the advertised HP/TQ ratings are at the engine....not RWHP/TQ ......so there is no difference in truck and muscle car #'s.....the F-body reference made by STV_Keith is one of the few cases that a manufacture has apparantly underrated their engine (possibly due to insurance and piss off corvette owners) ...... and yes, the power bands are what you'd want to use to compare trucks as well as muscle cars.....ya gotta have the power where ya need it.......

Speedin' Ian
01-07-2004, 09:18 AM
Here is a picture of my dads F-350 hooked up to the fifth wheel and our boat. He is running a 4in. Superlift kit with 35's. I believe his kit cost him less than a thousand dollars out the door with everything, and it rides as well if not better. On the fith wheel all we had to do was flip the axles to get it level, but I have seen guys flip the axles and add a piece of 2X4 steel between the frame and hangers to get it up even higher.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1349111-1187_IMG-med.JPG
On a side note I will agree that the edge kit is over priced, the hanger kit I installed on my truck was built by RCD and it cost half that. If I was going to do it again I would have bought the same lift as my dads, because I think it looks cleaner than having those bulky brackets hanging down

STV_Keith
01-07-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by y2kboti
The hp/tq claims of a truck are a different animal than a muscle car. Compare the power bands, redline, hp to tq. ratio, etc. FYI most stock 6.0 owners are seeing around 270-280rwhp so I still stand by what I said.
I have yet to see any Dmax's close to 600hp but who knows; anything is possibly if you have the $$$.
Well, you said "no engine makes what the manufacturers claim at the rear wheels"...there is an example where that statement is incorrect. Regardless of where the engine makes the power, the claim is x and the real rear wheel horsepower is the same or more.
See the dyno graph above regarding the power output on a 6.0l Powerstroke.

Jordy
01-07-2004, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Party Cat
So get yer ass out there and check it out.....:D :D
Hey Dad, just checked it out. No cat. :D

LASERRAY
01-07-2004, 10:22 PM
Yes, It has been said that the Ford and Chevy argument is older than dirt. But let me say this, Everytime the debate is brought to the surface, the arguments are EPIC! Such as this one! I appreciate all of your input and I can honestly say that I have learned alot from you guys, and I commend all of you for your knowlege, opinions, and input. I hold you guys in high regard. And again, I applaud your knowlege and thoughtfull replys. Thanks and keep up the good work. I appreciate it..:cool:

STV_Keith
01-08-2004, 08:16 AM
True, but we all know if you really want the HP, the Cummins (in the Dodge) is the only way to go. Here's one of our play trucks. Single turbo, no nitrous or propane, just #2 diesel. It's a bit of fun. :)
http://www.speedcraving.com/stv/misc/jd797hp.jpg

Havasu Cig
01-08-2004, 09:01 AM
To bad you have to buy a Dodge if you want the Cummins:D

jackpunx
01-08-2004, 09:40 AM
Hav Cig,
I know you had problems with your Powerstroke. But all issues aside. How did you like it compared to the Duramax?.. I mean.. If you had both trucks.. No issues .. right off the showroom floor.. What are the differences you see..
When I test drove the GMC.. Maybe it was just me.. but it seemed to be starved for a little power.. and the trannie seemed like it had some type of brake on it..
The Ford seemed a little more free.. and a little more powerfull.. Also the Ford seemed to have a little more room in the cab... Does that seem right to you?.
I know you have had both.
thanks

Havasu Cig
01-08-2004, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by jackpunx
Hav Cig,
I know you had problems with your Powerstroke. But all issues aside. How did you like it compared to the Duramax?.. I mean.. If you had both trucks.. No issues .. right off the showroom floor.. What are the differences you see..
When I test drove the GMC.. Maybe it was just me.. but it seemed to be starved for a little power.. and the trannie seemed like it had some type of brake on it..
The Ford seemed a little more free.. and a little more powerfull.. Also the Ford seemed to have a little more room in the cab... Does that seem right to you?.
I know you have had both.
thanks
The Ford had a little more room inside, but I think the size of the center consol in the Chevy gives an illusion of being smaller than it is. The vehicle width is pretty close on both.
The Chevy is definitely a more refined / plush vehicle. The creature comforts are much Better than the Ford. The Ford was built more like a work truck IMO. I think it is personel preference.
The 6.0 was faster that the Duramax, but had some turbo lag off the bottom. I think the D-Max would take it for a short distance in a race, but once the 6.0 spools up it is pretty fast. The D-Max does seem faster than my 02 F-350 with the 7.3. That motor was rated at 275 hp, so I think the 300 hp rating of the D-Max is close.
The Allison definitely feels "tight" compared to the Ford 5 speed auto. I like the feeling though, and the fact that is slows you down a little similar to the tow / haul mode on the Ford, but not as drastic. I have not used the tow / haul feature on the chevy yet.
I like the tow mirrors on the Ford a little better than the Chevy, although I think Chevy's have improved over the past couple of years.
Overall I like the Chevy better, but again that is a personal thing. I was always a Chevy guy, but when ford came out with the Superduty in 99 It was better than anything Chevy had at the time for towing. I bought a 99 F-250, and a 02 F-350 with the 7.3 and they were great trucks. I think Chevy has closed the gap now with the D-Max.