Disconnect the Cobra ignition interupter/shift assist?

[johnc]

Just got a Gaffrig two handle shifter and Supreme cables put in the Lavey. I replaced the original 1987 stock OMC shift/throttle unit because it was sloppy and cracked. I also replaced it hoping to correct a problem with the stock shifter not always going all the way into neutral (let me explain).
The gearbox would be in neutral but that stupid Cobra ignition interupter sometimes would be engaged while the shifter was in neutral--almost killing the engine. To get the interupter to stop suppressing the ignition, I would have to wiggle the shifter--argh!. With the new Gaffrig the problem is still there but alot easier to stop because the throttle is separate.
My question is this? Can I disconnect or bypass the interupter? My mechanic (OMC certified etc.) is pretty much by the book and advises agaist it.
1987 Laveycraft 21 460 OMC King Cobra

[gnarley]

Hey Johnc, sorry I really think your mechanic is right on this one. I have done a lot of research lately and found that the older King Cobra drives have the dog style clutches and if you don't leave the interupter in line you highly risk tearing out the clutch assembly. Only after 90 or 91 did OMC change to the cone clutches where you could remove the interupter.
Sorry I wouldn't do it unless you want to buy the later style drive.
Gnarley

[ratso]

A good mechanic is usually "pretty much by the book" and if he is then he should be able to remedy this problem for you. These systems work very well when set up right.

[not guilty]

JOHN C- Youre mechanic is right , deffinitly dont try to do away with the shift circuit.
I have had several of these come to me with this problem , 99% of the time one of the micro switches are bad or way out of adjustment. Have youre guy pay close attention in this department and it should be as good as new! NG

[gnarley]

Originally posted by not guilty:
I have had several of these come to me with this problem NG
So, NG does this mean that you work on the OMC's with King Cobras? Or you have an extensive working knowledge of them?
The reason I ask is that damn spitfire ignition has a preset redline of 4600 RPM and a pre-set advance curve. The 1994 version is even stranger than the rest and I need to retrofit the control module to increase the redline and limit the total advance to 34 degrees. I don't really want to install the whole MSD setup but it may be my only choice and it does have a shift interrupter if needed. I am not sure mine has the interrupter since it has the cone clutches like the Volvo's.
Any Ideas???

[johnc]

NG,
Thanks for the post. Here's the deal. The problem isn't always happening. My mechanic is about 75 minutes away (OMC mechanics are hard to find around here), and the damn thing was working OK at the shop. I'm trying to avoid dragging the boat back to the shop so I figured I would try to fix it myself. The problem seems to only happen when shifting from reverse to neutral. After playing with it a little it seems that if you overshoot neutral a hair when coming out of reverse and then put the shifter in the neutral detent it won't stick in the cut-out mode. So based on this info, what does it sound like? Adjustment or switch?
Thanks again for the help.
JC

[not guilty]

Gnarly-yes to both. I have a lot of exp. with cobra drives and I'm always finding someone elses parked in front of my door http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif .
As for a distributer I believe you have a BBC dont you ? If so I'd use a mallory electronic available thru NAPA (pn-18-5494-1) it has no rev limiter and can be wired to the cut-out switches.
JOHNC-still trying to get that diagram across to you, havent had much time at the keyboard.If you look at the two swithes on the control box while someone moves the controls you will notice as the lever is moved the cam hits one switch and cuts out the engine and this relieves tension on the conrol arm and allows the other cam to hit the second switch over-riding the cutout.They both remain in contact while in gear.When you pull out of gear they simply work backwards, the last switch releases and that cuts the motor out and lets the tension off the shift cable and the releases the other switch so when the motor is in N both switches are open.Setting the adjustment on land is hard to get it right as there is no tension on the drive out of the water,try it with someone with you in the water.Watch the cam action as they shift it in & out of gear,you'll see what happens coming out of R, playwith the adjustment a little and I'm sure you'll solve problem.Hope this helps , I'm not that good at trying to describe things , more of a show-me type. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif
ANYWAY LOL NG
[This message has been edited by not guilty (edited April 04, 2002).]

[gnarley]

Originally posted by not guilty:
Gnarly-yes to both. I have a lot of exp. with cobra drives and I'm always finding someone elses parked in front of my door http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif .
As for a distributor I believe you have a BBC don’t you? If so I'd use a Mallory electronic available thru NAPA (pn-18-5494-1) it has no rev limiter and can be wired to the cut-out switches.
NG, well good to hear you have some exp. Have you ever dealt with a 1994? And your right it is a BBC, you wouldn't know of the standard Mallory PN # would you?
So I think you know what I need, or want to do. I would love more info on the retrofit & not knowing much yet about the spitfire I thought the dist just delivered the spark and it is the flywheel that creates the field that charges the coil as it is a mag pulse (hall effect) ignition that was controlled by an external module. Where is the ignition control module? Or are you telling me that the module is in the distributor, and by replacing the distributor & wiring the Mallory back in I have removed the rev limiter?
This would sure make me happy if this were true. But would I loose the detonation sensors then?
Thanks

[not guilty]

SORRY GNARLY ! (HEE-HEE) Didnt realize you had the newer model.The spitfire ( I've only worked on afew) is a computer command unit.Is yours carburated though?I believe it should be. If so the mallory will work fine with a standard coil, its a self contained marine unit that will work by itself or with a mallory high 5 box or equal.The box would allow custom curve,rev limit etc...The mallory number for the dist is YLM624AV. All you need to run it alone is keyed power and a coil.hope this helps http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif NG

[gnarley]

NG, it is a carbureted version, but what about the shift interrupter? How does the older (93) and earlier spitfire work? Where is the module?

[not guilty]

Well unfortunetly GNARLY the only way to use any thing else in a spitfire is a complete remake of the ignition.As I posted before the mallory works as a component or alone with a coil , but it wont wire into the spitfire system.You'll have to throw-out everything.
The interupter though should work wired into the supply line to the dist.,as the newer cobras shift differently and all it does is cut current for a split second.Look on your shift bracket on the motor, there should be just one microswitch with two wires on it, that is your interupt .If you unplug it and check with an ohm meter it should show normally closed, when activated it cuts current.I believe wiring the red lead to the dist through this would activate the interupt correct,this lead is a low current lead for signal purposes.Check your shift control to see if its as I described and let me know . NG

[gnarley]

NG so what do you think is the better way to go Mallory or MSD? Which is less expensive and will still perform a rev limit and adjustable curve?

[Chestah Cheetah]

Not Guilty, how would you bleed the hydraulic trim system on a 94 King Cobra? Thanks!

[not guilty]

Gnarly-I personally like the mallory because of the price and the fact you can get by running the dist alone and add a box to alter ignition later .
CHEST-CHET-I've never had any problems bleeding down the trim on any cobras,they generally run the air out on thier own.Whats your problem ? Could be something else.. NG

[Chestah Cheetah]

NG, this is actually my buddies boat. I wasn't there, but I'll try to describe the best I can. It's a '94 Hawaiian 24. Last season he pulled it out of Mojave and the drive wouldn't come up, electrical problems that ended up just being a loose connection. Without holding people up at the ramp, he just drained some fluid from hydraulic arms to get it up for the tow home. From what I'm understanding, now the hydraulic fluid gate (?) will not open up to let fluid in rendering it stuck. I may not be describing the problem correctly, I'm just hoping you may have a clue. Thanks in advance!

[not guilty]

Chestah-There is a manual relief valve on the trim motor, its a slot-screw type plug.Block the lower unit where its at and relieve the pressure on the pump by loosening this screw a couple turns then raise the lower unit all the way up and block it there then remove the fill plug -DO NOT EVER REMOVE THE FILL PLUG UNLESS THE UNIT IS ALL THE WAY UP !-Once unit is blocked all the way up tighten the manual valve back up then add fluid to level.Have another person run the pump in the up position while you keep adding fluid to keep level up (stop running trm if you need to, just dont let the level go down to far)do this until you here the trim motor load down stop and fill to level 'put the plug in and remove the blocking under the drive.Run it thru the up -down cycle about 5 times and recheck level- remember to have unit all the way up before removing level plug.
HOPE THIS HELPS . NG
PS-be carefull when you first start to have someone run the up conrol if the system has not been empty , it may bleed out and load up quick ,dont want to hurt pump!
[This message has been edited by not guilty (edited April 07, 2002).]

[Chestah Cheetah]

Not Guilty & Nitro557, thanks for the tips! We ran the boat on Sunday with minimal problems only this time. The trim pump would make a "gurgling" or "bubbling" sound which leads us to believe there may be air in the lines. Either that or there is not enough fluid. I wouldn't know, I didn't do the work. On the lake yesterday, after each run using high trim and then coming to a stop, the drive would not come all the way down unless we trimmed all the up to the stop first and then back all the way down.

[CC1]

CC1 I GOT THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY 460 KING COBRA. IT IS HARD TO SHIFT OUT OF FORWARD OR REVERSE. I HAVE THE TWO LEVER SHIFTER. IT SHIFTS FINE OUT OF THE WATER,BUT CAN BE A REAL BITCH IN THE WATER. I AM THINKING THAT THIS SWITCH IS OUT OF ADJUSTMENT.WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK? THANKS

[Old Lavey]

Thought I would change my boring name to something more appropriate (no more JohnC).
Anyway, CC1:
I just put mine in the water for the first time since I had the Gaffrig shifter put in. In the water DOES make a difference, because when I backed it off the trailer I had NO FORWARD!!! I tested it on the trailer at home and it was working. Needless to say I was a little hot after just spending several hundred getting the new shifer in. After messing around with it at the marina for a few I was able to get forward but lost reverse. Obviously the OMC certified mechanic F@#*'ed up the adjustments! Anyway, its going back to him on Thursday, I will let you know what happens. Keep in mind it was working in both forward and reverse before I took it in. I was just trying to upgrade to a smoother shifter.
JC

[CC1]

OLD LAVEY, I GOT A BIGGER BOAT THIS YEAR, ITS A 245 LIMITED CHRIS CRAFT W/ 460 COBRA. I AM GOING THROUGH A LEARNING CURVE HERE GOING FROM A 18.6 BAJA TO THIS 24'6" BOAT.I HAVE ONLY HAD IT OUT TWICE. THE FIRST TIME I WENT DOWN THE LAKE AND CAME TO A STOP AND WENT TO NEUTRAL, IT WAS LIKE RUNNING ON FOUR CYLINDERS,I TRYED GIVING IT GAS BUT NOTHING.IT STAYED THE SAME RPM. I BARELY TOUCHED THE SHIFTER AND BOOM SHE PURED LIKE A KITTEN. THATS WHY I THINK THE SWITCH IS OUT OF ADJUSTMENT. I ALSO NOTICED THAT IN THE WATER MY SHIFT CABLE HAS MORE PLAY. MAYBE THATS WHERE I NEED TO START, KEEPING IN MIND WHERE THE SWITCH NEEDS TO MAKE.

[not guilty]

The microswitch cam adjustments is where I generally find the cure for the interupter hanging up and makes it run on 4 cylinders and stick in gear. It takes a little tinkering while in the water (dont let any techs fool you , adjusting on land only gets them close)and for simple piece of mind when I work on one with problems I start by replacing the microswitchs,they do go bad!If a marine dealer doesnt have them you can match them up at radio-shack, done it before but dont remember the part #,s.
John c , eeerrr I mean OLD LAVEY ,I would tend to say your problem is that the control you installeed doesnt have enough travel distance the way its hooked up. It shoulodnt be very hard for your tech to re-tool things a little to acomadate the extra cable travel , done this once myself , Just make sure that when he says he has it that when its in gear there is no back tension on it (keeping it from settling in gear freely in frwd and revrse) or lower unit problems are sure to follow.
Well I've exhausted my level of technical guru BS for the hour http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif see-ya NG

[CC1]

NOT GULITY, WAS AT THE LAKE THIS WEEKEND,WORK ON THE SWITCH FOR A WHILE,IT SEEMED TO GET A LITTLE BETTER BUT ITS NOT RIGHT YET.THE ONLY THING I ADJUSTED WAS THE LOWER UNIT SHIFTER CABLE BY 3 OR 4 THREADS AT THE CARB TO TAKE OUT SOME SLOP. HOW DO YOU MAKE THE CAM MOVE SOONER IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. IT STARTS TO SHIFT BEFORE THE SWITCH MAKES. AND WHEN SHOULD THE OVAL CAMS MAKE THE OTHER SWITCH. THANKS FOR ANY HELP. 460 KING