set back pump!

[youngster]

were can i get all of the info that i would need to complete this project myself?
pics would be nice too!
thanks

[youngster]

its sunday and the weather is perfect for sweating....so...i am asuming that nobody knows , or wants to help a brutha out?
Is the cut out in the hull aprox. 8'' wide therefore the bolts that go through the intake are set in the hull as well as the epoxy?
ive heard that people cut the intake out right along the intake...that does not make sense considering that you would essentially be cutting your mounting falnge away! am i on the right path here?
oh and the reason for the removal is when i removed the oil from the bottom of the hull (oil leaks) i noticed that where i had painted the well area,...around the intake had been cracking pretty bad! so i crawled under the hull and noticed that there was some oil (from the oil leak problem) seeping out of the cracks!
and i was toying with the idea of a set back this season anyway!
sorry for the runnon sentances!
todd

[Jake W]

Toddnuzz your new name Fs me up .How far are you going to go (break out of the hull or just as far as you can go)?there is not much to setting it back.Cut it out with a sawzal or 4 inch grinder with a thin cutting blade.I glassed mine back in (the front of the intake hole that will be open when you set it back) some people use a pice of alum and rebolt it in the holes and them use Sea going apox that you use to set the intake and fill it in.First you need to figure how much you want to go back.
Jake

[Jake W]

OK you are talking take it out.Some people say heat it up with a torch then put a jack under neath it and a 2 by 4 and lift the boat up by the intake in till it comes loose .But you can all so grind it out on the sidesinside the hull (just the puddy) not the glass and do not grind the intake .Do this untill you can pop it out.
Jake

[BrendellaJet]

Todd-remove the intake before making the cut:)
Sounds like the epoxy in yours may be losing some of its bond b/c of that seaping oil. I used a jack on mine to get it to pop out. Unfortunately, the boat was gutted and the intake was all that was left in when I did it-so when I raised my jack it lifted the boat off the trailer. To compensate, I took a piece of 4x6 wood and layed it perpendicular to the stringers(across them) right above the intake. Then, I took a piece of 2x6 and jammed it between the a large truss in my garage, and the 4x6. The sound the epoxy makes when breaking out of the boat is scary. I though I was killing the boat-but someone had told me it would make some awful noise, so I worked on it slowly until it popped out.
If you are going to use the boat as a lake boat, I would suggest that you do not cut through the transom. You want to make sure the intake mounts the same way it did before, only moved back further, in other words, the intake needs to have epoxy on all 4 sides of the flange, instead of just 3 sides if you were to cut through the transom like the racers do. MAKE SURE YOU MEASURE AND KNOW FOR SURE THAT THE CUT YOU ARE MAKING IS CORRECT. I JUST ABOUT HAD MINE CUT ALL THE WAY BACK BEFORE I STOPPED AND MEASURED_IF I HAD NOT DONE THAT, I WOULD HAVE BEEN SCREWED.
Measure the mounting flange, and leave atleast that much of the bottom intact. Depending on the shape of the intake, you may need to trim your transom hole(for the pump) a little lower, and do some grinding tothe inside of the transom to accomodate the intake. I dont have a berk pump, so Im not familiar with the shape, however, Jack did machine my intake for a "max set-back option" which gave me an extra 3/4 inch. Ill try to post pics a little lateer, I have lots.

[youngster]

as for the toddnjuzz/youngster thing, that is annoying, im sorry but HB is helping me out as much as he can!
the pump is a berk 12jg and is machined already! as for the epoxy comming loose...i have chipped out all of it...just up against the mounting flange came up pretty easily (inside), until i tried to extract the hdwr from the intake (through the hull) i will have to post some pics when the wife gets back from "ALBERTSONS", i plan to take a turdload of pics this week on this thing so if i cant explaine...you'll see what im talking about!
todd

[HOSS]

Pulled my motor last night youngster. Glad you started this thread. I`m doing the same thing. My leaked a little bit ogf oil too.

[youngster]

well ive got some pics now im going to upload them.

[youngster]

well in the first photo, i first noticed that the fiberglass was cracked behind the intakeand had oil coming through!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662todds_pump_1_4_04_004-med.jpg
then...i noticed that is was dripping down the intake fin!!(oh shit!!)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662todds_pump_1_4_04_006-med.jpg
so i started to lookaround and chip away at the epoxy, to see where it is seepind through, and fig. ta hell with it...its time to do the set back!!!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/662todds_pump_1_4_04_001-med.jpg
so i start pulling the hdwr out of the intake (what a bitch this is!) an asked myself......self? who are you going to get these out?http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662todds_pump_1_4_04_002-med.jpg
so now ive gotta rely on you guys or call jack or maybe even listen to what "CHET" thinks on how far back i can go? in the next pic you can see that i have just up to 2'' that i can move it back, until im into the transom! what do you think?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662todds_pump_1_4_04_003-med.jpg
as for the word "transom" this is one more of the things that i get to fix too!! wooohooo goodie!!!
is this a trait of the rogers hulls , because ive seen it before?
sorry for the space take-up! toddnjuzz

[youngster]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662todds_pump_1_4_04_008-med.jpg

[youngster]

HBjet that is what you felt at big river over labor day! not a paintline! lol
summer is comming up way too fast!

[Jetmugg]

Todd:
You should be able to use a center punch or drift punch to drive those bolts out the bottom of the hull. There are holes in the "upper" surface of the intake that give you straight down access to the top surface of those bolts. Just drive 'em out the bottom.
Get ahold of Jack, he can machine some material off the back of the intake that will allow you some additional setback.
STeve.

[HOSS]

Will post some of mine tomorrow. I don`t have bolt heads on the bottom of my hull. Yours is already set back way more than mine. I figure I want to go all the way I can back. Why not? There shouldn`t be any stress placed ont he transom from a het drive setup.

[Ken F]

Hoss & youngster,
Here is a link to some pics when I did mine if they will help.
http://community.webshots.com/album/53322457xFuiDz
Ken F

[Marlin455]

I was thinking about doing a setback on my pump when I flip the boat to remove the hook, but I have a question?
Why is the bottom edge of the transom/hull rounded? I would think that a sharp edge at this point would help "break" the water away from the hull better, no?
Anyone?
One other question- If I set my pump back, I will need a new transom plate- I am assuming I will have to fab one up myself, but what do I use? 1/2" aluminum plate?
I also have wondered about the stress on the transom- is there any to speak of?

[BrendellaJet]

Originally posted by HOSS
Will post some of mine tomorrow. I don`t have bolt heads on the bottom of my hull. Yours is already set back way more than mine. I figure I want to go all the way I can back. Why not? There shouldn`t be any stress placed ont he transom from a het drive setup.
If you are referring to the bolts in Todds pics-those are for the rideplate & Shoe. The others(for the Intake) were probably countersunk and patched over. If you are going to go through the effort of doing the setback, then have it machined for a ride plate and shoe, and go back as far as it can.

[Ken F]

Merlin,
You are so right about the sharp edge on the transom,and the edges of the lifting strakes also.
3/16" or 1/4" Alum plate should be fine. I believe most are made of 1/4"
I set mine clear back through the bottom of the transom, and havn't had a problem. I know a lot of people say that it's not a good idea. I talked to quite a few people who have been at it a long time, and the consensus was go for it, the worst would be maybe it might leak a little bit.
I don't really know the answer as to how much stress is on the transom. My opinion would be not much. The transom plates on mine were sealed with a very thin bead of silicone, and never did come apart or leak.
Ken F

[youngster]

i have heard of a setback going too far... but how far is too far? i know i dont want to go through the transom as for the comment made by steve (jetmugg) hows it going buddy? i tried to drive them out earlier today ,...the short ones came out but the longer ones gave me hell and ended up crushing the threads (mushroom). i may just have to try heating them up or breaking them off at the flange and driving!
im not going to do anything drastic before i talk to someone! but i like the idea of the space plate in front of the intake.
for the machining comment...isnt this something that i can do with a bench vise and a cuttoff whee or portable bansaw?
ive even heard of cutting back into the transom? but how far would i want to go?i guess i have a few questions that i will need to ask. thanks for all of the help guys! todd

[Marlin455]

KenF- Are you saying that the hull lower edge SHOULD be sharp?
What did you use for your transom plate, and do you have any pics?- I wondered about how far back you set yours- I was under the impression that you didn't want to cut the rear edge of the transom out.
Have you had any problems with it set back that far?
Thanks, Stan

[HOSS]

The transition from hull to transom should be as sharp as possible. RAZOR if you can. I`m going to be making my transom plate out of 3/8 aluminum. My main question ia also how far to go? My intake is stock. Should I even be doing a setback with it. Is it worth it? I will have to have a driveshaft made so how much more of an increase can I expect? I know every motor and hull and pump are different but like 20% more? I`ve gotta do a cost effect here because I really want a pickle fork or hydro so if it ain`t gonna be dramatic then I ain`t gonna do it.

[BrendellaJet]

Hoss, If you dont need to take it out, and you dont want to go through the expense of adding the shoe, then i wouldn't bother-personally. The reason I did mine was to get the most out of my current set up. I added the shoe/rideplate, in addition to many other mods all designed to increase top speed. You may see a few mph by doing the set back, but, like you said, each boat is different. If you are planning on buying another boat, then Id save my cash for that.

[HOSS]

That`s what I figured too. I am just going to reseal it. Should I just chip out old epoxy and re do it?

[Ken F]

Stan,
Yes, the edge of the transom should be as sharp as you can get it. If you are working on the bottom too, also sharpen the edges of your lifting strakes as far forward as your boat rides in the water.
This is what Jeff Bennet told me when I spoke with him about mine.
Hoss, I would agree with BrendellaJet on saving your money for your next boat. It's a lot of work & expense (even doing it yourself). It seems to me that the main reason for doing a setback is to be able to add a rideplate, and to get your boat to sit back on it's haunches! Less wetted surface. Even after you get her running again, you still have a lot of set-up work to make it right. If it's not something you are going to keep, why do it?
I did mine last year, and this year I've got a new Cheyanne Tunnel ordered. (Hoping to have it by mid Feburary. )
Even after all the improvements, I still aint going fast enough!!!!! LOL
Ken F

[BrendellaJet]

Originally posted by HOSS
That`s what I figured too. I am just going to reseal it. Should I just chip out old epoxy and re do it?
Your call really. If it leaks, Id want to fix it. You need to decide how much you like the boat, are you going to keep it? Or sell it when you get a new one? It could be worth more if you have the ride plate/shoe installed and do the setback.
To me the setback wasn't a lot of work. Cut the hole and make the aluminum plate to cover the void left over. Just working with the epoxy was the pain in the ass. Its sticky, makes a mess, and you dont have a lot of time to mess around. The set up is the killer though. I spent a few hours just getting it leveled and set right. I dont remember what I paid for my shoe/ride plate, but I think you could get the purchase price back out of and then some with the set back. Just need to find the right buyer-

[youngster]

brendella, what was the best way (you found) to level the intake?
ive been told that you want to find the most efficient loading angle into the pump?
does'nt the intake just rest right on the hull when set into place?
or do you have to set a certain deg.? by the way im just writing all of the useful info down forwhen im sitting on my ass at the transome wondering....."What the f@#$ am i thinking!"
is there a jig that i should make?
i had a buddy whom shal remain nameless......was supposed to bring me pics of his setback,......but im still waiting....and waiting.....etc. todd

[78Eliminator]

Jesus Todd, were you drinking? Sounds like one of those "small projects" that end up taking a long time. At least you are a glass guy. I though you were doing some motor work too? Man, I want to have a ride in that hull when you are done. It will be interesting to see what 2" will do. That ladies think it's a big deal, maybe the boat will too......
J

[youngster]

i may not hit rock bottom justin....but you can bet i'll bang the "SHIT " outta the sides!!lmfao
i wanted to do these things before i built it the first time, but i did not know of these websites then!! now all of what i need is at my fingertips!
yes i am having a new motor built and the pump gone through and new seating!...but hey!..at least im not re-gelcoating the boat!lol
and no...im not riding in that thing! lol todd

[78Eliminator]

Glad to hear it!!! I'll ride in your sled any time, maybe I will gain your trust some day.....
J

[BrendellaJet]

Originally posted by youngster
brendella, what was the best way (you found) to level the intake?
ive been told that you want to find the most efficient loading angle into the pump?
does'nt the intake just rest right on the hull when set into place?
or do you have to set a certain deg.? by the way im just writing all of the useful info down forwhen im sitting on my ass at the transome wondering....."What the f@#$ am i thinking!"
is there a jig that i should make?
i had a buddy whom shal remain nameless......was supposed to bring me pics of his setback,......but im still waiting....and waiting.....etc. todd
Todd, There should be some 1/4 inch holes, one at each corner of the intake, used to level the intake before install, but after all the prep/clean up has been done. Go over to the RJB boards, There was a thread over there that covered it in depth a while ago.

[youngster]

i searched for that thread a while ago... but came up with nothing! oh well! if someone has the link, that would help! thanks todd

[youngster]

i guess you guys dont know were that thread is?
and am still wondering how far back is too far?

[Jake W]

Todd I have seen them set back as far as the center of the opening of the shoe was in line with the transom this was in a Vbottom 18 ft Sunkist that runs over 90.That is pretty far back
Is it Hammers thread you are looking for?
How far you wanta go?
Jake

[youngster]

well i dont want to ruin the integrity of the hull (transom) but,... get it back as far as possible! i dont want to set it back 2 in. and have someone tell me i could have went back4' and it still be safe for the hull...you followin me?
mind you... im not going to try to put this boat out at ming or anything...i just want to break the hull free as possible! todd

[Jake W]

Todd most say if it is a lake boat dont break it out of the hull.If it is a race boat set it back out of the intake untill you get the whole hand hole cover out side and enought room to put transom plates in betwine it(handhole inspection) and the hull.
It is more likely to leak if it is set back out of the hull.I am not saying that it will though.
Also the mod in witch you cut off the very back off of the intake to gain as much space asposable could be done at home if you are really carefull remember right under that bolt flange is where the water ramps in to the suction and you do not want to F it up.
Jake
PS I am no expert this is info that has been told or shown to me

[toddnjuz]

im back..woo...hoo!!
jake- i think that all i'll get out of the set back is about 2' until i get up against the transom...thats all i need is to f%$# this boat up perm. and be out for the summer for sure,...after all its only a "RIVER" boat! thanks for the input jake! todd

[TRG]

well i finally extracted the intake from the hull! it was a lot easier after i realized that there were two more bolts at the end of the intake...but like i said...these are some pics promised.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662todds_pump_1_4_04_021-med.jpg
http://http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662todds_pump_1_4_04_022-thumb.jpg
and before i pulled out the pump...i pulled a strait edge across the keel of the boat and noticed that my intake loader's leading edge was 1/4''off of the keel...am i right in thinking that thats way too low?
maybe thats why my boat felt like i was dragging a shovel under there!!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/662todds_pump_1_4_04_009-med.jpg
by the way...thanks for the advice (heat) Mike F
after i heated the intake...she poped like a cherry!!lol
so now ive decided to "not" go with a set-back...only because i really dont think that with my application, i'll really know the difference in 2"!
hell with the motor pkg and a fresh pump...it should be a better feel anyway, becides my wife wants a "BBBBBiminity" there..i said it, id rather have my family with me than look cool anyway!! lol!
todd

[Moose]

Todd,
last month I did the same thing, pulled the intake and wanted to do a setback. After some serious contemplation I decided the cash to do the 2" setback just was'nt worth the gains I would get with a 600hp lake boat. I did have MPD reset the intake and add a backcut shoe and ride plate, stuffer,inducer,blueprint bowl & impeller and a new ss loader. By the way, my wife loves our new bbbbiiimmmiiiinnniii top :D .
Moose
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/126R0010035.jpg

[TRG]

im still undecided on how i want to mount the biminity! do you have any more pics?...you know..so i could show the lil' lady"n" shit!