what upgrades are recomended for the 496 HO

[Chris Winn]

I have been lurking these boards forever, I have probably met most of you that frequent the Nautical.
I'm looking to upgrade the 496 in my magic (I know, I should have bount the HP500, but we all know what people say about hindsight). I have looked at the whipple/procharger route and am still not convinced that the 496 wil hold up to the use at Havasu, I have looked at the Arizona speed and Marine engine upgrades and have a hard time beliveing that they can pull and EST 530 HP from my 496 with the manifold package and electronics upgrade (inc. cam change i'm sure). i'm looking for and honest 75mph running boat (i'm currently running around 65-67 GPS with a 24p prop (non labbed)) so 100hp should be all that is needed for the added speed.
what do you guys think? any suggestions would really be appriciated.
also I want to put up a picture, how do I go about doing this?

[Chris Winn]

good I see that my ingae did get attached, this si the new boat!

[twistedpair]

Pretty good discussion on the 496HO HERE (http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=32029&highlight=whipplecharger) . I think you may be a little ambitious in your hopes for 10 extra mph in a boat that large with only another 100 hp. But hey, I've been wrong before, alot!:)

[Dr. Eagle]

I agree with you Mr. Twisted Pair...
I have heard a rule of thumb is that it takes 10-16 HP for each MPH in most boats once you have reached the upper limits of the current engine/setup. So it would take quite a bit of HP to get you your desired 10MPH.
Also the 496 HO is a higher compression engine that is a little more difficult to supercharge... although Procharger and others offer packages, they net about 1/2 the HP that a similar package would do for the 502.
Naturally aspirated increases can be had with exhaust and intake changes, fuel regulators and computer reprograms, but big HP will probably require a cam and maybe heads. Problem with the exhaust is that it is so darn expensive in the bang for buck category. Anyway, just my .02 which is really worth like .005

[hot_diggity_dog]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
I have been lurking these boards forever, I have probably met most of you that frequent the Nautical.
I'm looking to upgrade the 496 in my magic (I know, I should have bount the HP500, but we all know what people say about hindsight). I have looked at the whipple/procharger route and am still not convinced that the 496 wil hold up to the use at Havasu, I have looked at the Arizona speed and Marine engine upgrades and have a hard time beliveing that they can pull and EST 530 HP from my 496 with the manifold package and electronics upgrade (inc. cam change i'm sure). i'm looking for and honest 75mph running boat (i'm currently running around 65-67 GPS with a 24p prop (non labbed)) so 100hp should be all that is needed for the added speed.
what do you guys think? any suggestions would really be appriciated.
also I want to put up a picture, how do I go about doing this?
I would start with Props and after you get the right one have it lab finished.
You can achieve more HP gain for the buck with a prop, than any motor upgrade.
HDD:cool:

[Chris Winn]

thanks, great input!
i'm going to have Houston prop do the lab work on the prop, the 24p is pretty good (i'm running at 4900 rpm with 3/4 tank and 4 people) so i will try this 1st.
has anyone had any experience with AZ speed and marine? or Tyrler Crokett?

[Screaming Pete]

Sometimes you can even go up to the next size prop when you have a little black majic done from mercury lab dept.:)

[SLOWMAN]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
I have been lurking these boards forever, I have probably met most of you that frequent the Nautical.
I'm looking to upgrade the 496 in my magic (I know, I should have bount the HP500, but we all know what people say about hindsight). I have looked at the whipple/procharger route and am still not convinced that the 496 wil hold up to the use at Havasu, I have looked at the Arizona speed and Marine engine upgrades and have a hard time beliveing that they can pull and EST 530 HP from my 496 with the manifold package and electronics upgrade (inc. cam change i'm sure). i'm looking for and honest 75mph running boat (i'm currently running around 65-67 GPS with a 24p prop (non labbed)) so 100hp should be all that is needed for the added speed.
what do you guys think? any suggestions would really be appriciated.
also I want to put up a picture, how do I go about doing this?
How many RPM's are you running when you're at at 65-67? I have a 26 Lavey max I get is 63 GPS full load of fuel 85 gallons and person onboard. However I am only spinning 4700 RPM at WOT. I have the 24p 4 blade. I too have conteplated Whipple but am concerned about the "filler up and go" of the stock 496 HO..

[BoatFloating]

I have the Procharger 3# on my boat. I've had it now 2 full seasons and no problems. I went from a 24P 4 Blade to a worked 26P (has a few hundred RPM's taking out of it) I picked up 10-15 mph, 10mph summer and 15mph during winter testing. I've been very happy with it and the cost is still cheaper than the HP500 by far. I can only give you my take on the Procharger I know Whipple makes good stuff.

[MagicMtnDan]

I heard you can get a LOT more power by upgrading to a thru-transom exhaust :D :D :D

[Chris Winn]

hey MMD,
my thru hull is the reason that I break 60!

[Chris Winn]

thanks boatfloating,
this is good info (from and real user)
I would really like the boost, but I am really worried about the reliability, I am running the XR drive, but I do not want to burn a hole in my piston.
how heavy is your cat, i think i have seen your boat, have you seen my boat

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
thanks boatfloating,
this is good info (from and real user)
I would really like the boost, but I am really worried about the reliability, I am running the XR drive, but I do not want to burn a hole in my piston.
how heavy is your cat, i think i have seen your boat, have you seen my boat
The 3lb is real minor. I have a XZ drive and had no problems with drive again 2 years running. The Procharger takes the HP to 550 at prop. That shouldn't hurt a XR at all. I think with a V bottom you should see a 8 mph gain with the 3lb system. Burning a hole in pistion is only going to happen if you don't dial your fuel in correctly. My boat weighs 4600 dry weight. I seen you out there and you have a great looking boat.

[Chris Winn]

Thanks Boatfloating,
I'll buy you a round at the turtle when i see you in Havasu, I see that I am going to have to do some homework here (plus let that waranty expire before I start the mods)
plus I know that when I say that I would be happy with 75, that would only be untill I get there (i have a very bad habit with that, and my wife is starting to notice!)

[BoatFloating]

No problem, see ya at the Turtle

[Chris Winn]

thanks boatfloating,
this year will be great, i look forward to seeing you guys out there

[DogHouse]

Uh oh, don't let Mr. Big see this gel!
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=554447
Very nice indeed, probably the best looking (IMO) Wizard I've seen. http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0903/grinser/grinning-smiley-003.gif
If I had the 496 and didn't want to spring for a full custom engine, I'd probably pull the heads off and do some porting and valve work. I'd add a hotter cam (w/matching springs of course), better intake (or port the stock unit), reprogramming and maybe bigger injectors if needed, and some headers. That should easily get the 496 up in the 550 hp range if not better. I don't see any reason that it wouldn't respond to the usual hot rodding tricks just like any other engine.
-brian

[Chris Winn]

thanks doghouse,
a little birdy told me that you were a Magic owner as well! that is also good input, i need to see what the most cost effective solution for my needs will be, then spend the money to have it done right (I have not assembled a motor in quite some time).
who is Mr. Big anyway?

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
who is Mr. Big anyway?
I could tell ya, but then I'd have to... well you know.
Maybe this will help!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/38F29G-med.jpg
:D

[BoatFloating]

I don't think they look anything alike.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Winn's is a V and only has 1 motor and alot less spot ties.

[DogHouse]

I like 'em both! :cool:
Of course I'm not one to throw stones since there are several imposters of my boat running around! :(

[Jordy]

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
I heard you can get a LOT more power by upgrading to a thru-transom exhaust :D :D :D
You know, funny thing, I've heard that too. But seeing how it takes anywhere from 10-16 horsepower per mph gained, I think there are other routes you could go.
Let's just say for example you're running 400 hp out of that motor and want to pick up 5 mph. At the very least you're going to have to add 50 horse power which is MORE than 10% gain. I'm going to go out on a limb here and make the suggestion that you're not going to pick up 50hp by switching from through hub to through transom exhaust without doing some other SERIOUS modifications in the process.
Bottom line, I wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket on that kind of a mod. I'd look at that in addition to a PROM upgrade, perhaps some different exhaust manifolds, intake and maybe even a cam swap.
But that's just my $.02 and WTF do I know right kilroy?
:rolleyes:

[Chris Winn]

thanks Jordy,
your input is good, i do have the thru hulls (this boat would be joke without it!)
how would the following sound for upgrades:
1) AZ marine kit (good for est 75-85hp) (ecu, cam and intake)
2) labbed 26p (running 24p right now)
I HEARD (I HEAR ALOT OF THINGS) that the manifolds on the 496 do flow well (550hp, the loss is minimal)
is this a possibility for 75mph (I 65 GPS now), i just want to keep the yurn key reliability there.
thanks for your help

[Jordy]

not a problem Chris. I didn't read through the whole thread before posting my response (as it was kind of a reply to a deal that happened a week or so ago and was very childish, not on my part, but has played out and you may have seen it) but as far as warranty and such (like if you're waiting for the warranty to run out before you turn it up a bit), I'm kind of along the train of thought that a Whipple might just be the way to go. Granted I know the 496 has some issues when you start to get to the upper side of the boost spectrum, so I'd look for something that you could run around with say 5 lbs of boost for a while and then when you decided to take the next step and do some upgrading either on the 496 or jumping into an entirely different realm, like a 540 or even a 672 (on the far end of it) you'd have something that you could crank up a little bit, like underdriving the pulley less or even overdriving it if the situation called for it. From what I've seen on the new fuel injected motors, dollar for dollar, the blower is about the best way to go.

[Chris Winn]

hello Jordy,
I saw the deal with Kilrtoy, not my situation. i try to stayout (i'm here to learn)
whipple might be the way to go, i did get the XR drive just in case! but i have always liked the running of a n/a motor, less headache.
your input is really great please feel free to lend any help that you see fit

[mbrown2]

Spend the 10-12K and Whipple it, Cam it, Tweak the Computer, Heads, and Exhaust, and get into the 800HP range......you are gonna want to be there after a year anyway...
Its only money....but really, I would spend the money on the Whipple first...it will be the most bang for the buck in seat-of-pants feel...

[Chris Winn]

PS- my intention was not to copy anyone, my wife actually designed the gellcoat for this (i was happy just getting the bigger boat) (it cost me my Harley).
but this boat is a hell of alot better than the 25ft Baja that i had before this (but id did like the 454 mag EFI motor)
i really liked this flame job, Magic did a great job i n the execution of my wifes design. (the flames run under the boat and revert to white up the transom.
the wife is happy so i get to enjoy it.

[Chris Winn]

do you really think that 800hp is posssible witht this block? that might run close to 20k, for that $$$ wouldn't one of info's motors be a good idea? or a teage motor for 30K (just for the solid foundation it is built on?
800 would be nice, my friend has a 95 Wizaed with about 850-900 blown hp, but he build a ground up 572 ci motor for it. his is good for approx 90 (not yet proven)

[Jordy]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
whipple might be the way to go, i did get the XR drive just in case! but i have always liked the running of a n/a motor, less headache.
I understand your concerns but have to say it's all in how you treat your gear. If you like to hammer it out of the hole and just trash things, you'll be lucky if a #6 will hold up to what you want to do. However, if you just roll into the power and don't rail on it, you should have no problem running moderate boost through an XR. There's a guy who posts here by the name of WhippedCaliber. You should talk to him, granted he was running a 23' but was still running a huge amount of ponys through a bravo drive and as far as I know never had any problem with it.
As far as the headache factor, I totally understand that too, but with the newer setups and fuel injection, from what I've seen you can do quite alot and still have turnkey reliability especially when you compare it to the old days with blown big blocks and dual carbs, and even those have come a long way too.
Bottom line, speed is a function of money. How fast can you afford to go? :D
Also, for future reference, you're better off posting tech stuff like this in forums such as the Gear Heads, Blower Motors and such as you're more likely on this board to get an honest response as many people avoid the Sandbar and all the bullshit associated with it. :D

[Chris Winn]

Hello Jordy,
thanks for yout input, for now on i will ask in the right forum. i do want to meet some of the people on here so i know you when i run into you on the real sandbar (or the turtle as well)
everyone has been really cool so far, and i do not mind to pay to play, but i i'm out there to hav fun as well.

[Jordy]

Don't get me wrong, you're fine posting on here, but you're much more likely to get the bullshit responses on this forum versus the other ones that focus on a more tech driven level. I'm actually surprised at the honesty you've been given to the question you asked in here. As you can tell some people like to go the asshole route and steer you in the wrong direction. Perhaps with all the drama right now some of the clowns are preoccupied. There are quite a few people on here who can really help you with what you're looking to do, and as I've said before, most of them avoid the shenanigans that go on in the sandbar. In fact, I kinda feel dumber for having gotten caught up in the stuff going on here the last couple of days, then again, it all started trying to help someone out who didn't know not to post serious stuff in here.
Welcome to the boards. If you have any questions feel free to look me up and PM me. Infomaniac is another great resource on the boards when it comes to engines and horsepower gains. He has his own forum on www.riverratlife.com as well. It has sections that are entirely tech and won't tolerate the things that happen here as well.
Like I said, good luck and welcome.

[mbrown2]

Chris,
I was aiming too high....with the mods I mentioned above, you could get a legit 750....(However, that number might be higher with the 3.3 Whipple with the other mods) Also, I think you could do all of the above for 12-13K...If I thought 20K, I would be looking at a new motor and selling your current.
I don't see the issue with the reliability with the right builder putting it together...I had a 502 EFI Whippled and ran it without issue before I sold it....
As for going with a different setup, with the exception of Info's motor's....the ROI is better with upgrading your own versus spending 20-30K on a new one...There are guys around here with Custom built motors that have had issues with them as well...it all depends on who is doing your work and how you treat it and maintain it...Good luck:D

[Chris Winn]

thanks,
if you see me, i will truley buy you a round at the turtle or throw you a can on the bar!

[Chris Winn]

you guys are great, my wife is going to kill me (i think its worth it)
man, i thought i blew my wad with the new boat, again this is just the begining!!!!!

[Jordy]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
you guys are great, my wife is going to kill me (i think its worth it)
man, i thought i blew my wad with the new boat, again this is just the begining!!!!!
Just blame me. It seems to be a trend around here... :D
As far as just the beginning, it only gets better from here, or worse depending on your perspective. :D

[Chris Winn]

i have found that trouble is the best type of anything to get into! my wife is really cool (she did ask that i sell my harley) but she knows that this is the safer form of stress relife that i enjoy, plus she doesn't have to sit on the fender at 100 anymore!

[mbrown2]

Originally posted by jordanpaulk
Just blame me. It seems to be a trend around here... :D
:D

[rivercrazy]

The thing to really watch out for with outdrives and blower motors is the amount of weight you will be pushing. A 29 footer with a 24 degree bottom will put a lot more stress on a drive than a 21 foot boat with a 18 degree rounded keel bottom. So drive strength really becomes a factor with the bigger boats.
IMO the initial torque rise of a blower motor is the biggest thing to worry about coming out of the hole. However, a blower motor will make a lot more torque across the entire RPM band and that also is very hard on drives.
I've heard of many XR's blowing apart with 700HP or more. Even with light throttle hands. IMCO SC's and the new 4X4 drive might perhaps be more solid choices but they are very expensive. But on the other hand all you need to do is blow one or two drives and your up there beyond what you would have spent on an IMCO

[Chris Winn]

you are very right witht he XR drive, i will just need to be very carefull with it. the boat is rather light for it's size (aprox-4700lbs) but it is pushing a large mass throough the water (wetted area). so i will keep everyone up to date with my progress in the next few months. i might not wait for the warranty to expire, but i only have 7 hrs on the motor and should probably have at least 20 to ensure the motor is solid.
Chris

[MASTERKENDOG]

So how much $$$ we talking fer a full install on the Procharger and how much fer the Whipple? And who do you recommend for the Procharger and the Whipple install?
MKD.
Hey Chris Winn,
Do you store this at Rivertoys with Steve? If so, I have a few questions fer ya. It's about the "patch" job and the bubble/airhole in the strake. Let me kno'fo' sho'!
Thanks
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=554447