Markel Insurance told me

[miketsouth]

That a 19' picklefork will do 107mph with a 300hp SBC, and there was no market for it.
They wrote me back that if i could present information that it really wont go but 70 they would consider it. I supposed it would do 70 in my dreams, but i know it wont do 107 if you drop it off a CLIFF!!
any suggestions?
Maybe i should buy one from Markel
mikeT

[Jet Hydro]

offer them a ride??? :eek:
OR
Ask some one like Duane from HTP tell them what it takes to make a boat run 107mph.:eek:

[Mohavekid]

A test ride/drive or a testimonial from an expert might convince them.
It sounds like they have no clue on boats.

[BiggusJimbus]

Now, there is POTENTIAL for that kind of speed with a outdrive. (I've seen it done, It's crazy, but possible)
That took a highly worked over motor, race gas and nitrous.
So, pretty clearly they don't understand the dynamics of boats and in particular jet boats. Not surprising. Probably the only way to get through to them would be a demonstration.
If they are up for it. Then great. Otherwise, somebody like BoatUS might be a better bet. Although not quite sure what their qualaties as an inusrer are either.
Anyway, good luck to you.

[Jetmugg]

If you find anyone who is willing to insure a 19' picklefork boat, please share their name. These boats seem virtualy "un-insurable", especially if you have OT headers.
There must be an answer to this dilemna somewhere, but I haven't heard it yet.
SteveM.

[HammerDown]

Actually Mike, Markel was the ONLY one that would touch my 21, even with OT headers. they told me "they know ALL about the Hot Rod Tunnel Jets etc". Guess she knew mine would never touch triple digits with my POS 468 :rolleyes:
LV posted someone here in PA that also handles tunnel Jets etc. I belive it's on RJB's :cool:

[Starloans]

Try Sawyer Cook ins. in San Bernadino. Ask for Gayla. 800-655-2814. They are a broker and also use Markel but have other companies. Tell them what has happened so far. They should be able to find you something. They have been very helpful to me. Also try running a search here on ***boat. There have been many threads with good insurance info in the past.
When I got insurance on my boat they tried to tell me my HP525 was blown. Merc used to make a 525sc but my motor was not. I had to take pictures and have the dealer write a letter, etc in order to convince them. But it was an extra $1800 a year if I couldn't prove it was not blown. So be prepared to jump a couple of hoops and you should be ok. Good luck.
Dave

[manuel]

Maybe in Canada, ay? 107 kilometer/hour = 66.4867176 mile/hour (mph)

[miketsouth]

Markel got a screw loose somewhere. The lady handling my questions was very nice though.
Thanks to you good people i still got some leads.
mikeT

[Starloans]

BTW.....you should show them your avatar, it looks like you are only going 45mph. :D

[miketsouth]

the avatar is about 60mph (fast as my 330hp jet will go). The signature avatar ski wipeout is about 55mph (at the end of the swing from a ~30mph pull) slowed down 3x.
mikeT

[cal***boat]

If anybody out here has a copy of Dragboat Review you will find in the advertisers section a name of a company that sells insurance for high performance boats.
I would look it up for you but since I have moved into my new house all my Dragboat Review mags have taken a hike to some where else and I can't find them.
Good Luck, Dave

[Starloans]

BigBoy...that's great. Please be careful with any insurance co. I know there are some people on these boards that are in that industry but........I have real estate agent I work with that owns several properties, cars, life ins, etc. I have financed all her real estate. She had 2 water damage claims in 2 years on rentals. 1 was zero payout and the other was $2800. The 0 payout was just a phone call to ask what should I do. She gave them her policy # and that was it. CLAIM. Her ass was TOAST!!!! Canceled her ass like a stamp! She had been with them 20 years. She damn near got a divorce over it!!!! I thought her husband was going postal on the company. When she found out she was in escrow buying another rental at the beach.
My point is... don't have a false sense of security because you have been with them so long or have a lot of shit insured. It's a bitch to have to get everything you own re-insured.
What kind of boat do you have????
BTW her insurance company was Allstate. :eek:

[Greaser]

We've had our buisness insurance thru allstate for about 20 plus years. We made our first claim about 4 years ago when a hail storm ruined our roof. About a year later, another hail storm caim thru, so we claimed that damage, next thing we know, they drop us:mad: Needless to say, we were more than angry.

[Mohavekid]

I'm a little reluctant to post this, but I'm in the insurance claims business, so let the indiscriminate flaming begin. :D
Insurance is the business of risk, somewhat like gambling.
Premium rates and decisions on who or what we insure are made based upon very detailed mathmatical actuarial models. It's like odds at a casino. Just like a casino, insurers just won't take some bets.
One of the biggest predictors of future claims activity and payout, is prior claims activity. The bottom line is that if you have one claim, you are more likely to have another claim than someone who has not had a claim. This helps explain cancellations after an insured reports a claim.
In addition to the actuarial models, sometimes the claim staff during the handling of the claim will make note of other adverse risk factors which the insurer was previously not aware of.
For auto and boat insurance, speed has been proven time and again to be a significant factor in the severity and frequency of acidents. A vehicle which is capable of higher speeds has more risk of accident. I know we are all excellent drivers and we never drive after drinking nor do we drive fast when there are other boats around, but the fact remains, accidents happen. Those accidents cost the insurer many thousands of $$$$. Much more than the premium paid by the insured.
Being a long time customer is appreciated, but as I previously said, customers that have 1 claim are more likely to have another.
I often hear from irate insured's about their 20 year claim free history with the company and about all the premiums they have paid over that time. The premium is not stored away for each insured nor is a running tally of total premiums paid kept.
The premium paid is the $$$ amount the insurer charges for the insurance contract given the risks presented by the customer.
Generally speaking, the insurance industry as a whole, paid out 5-6% more in losses and expenses during 2003 than it took in in premium. That means we lost 5-6 cents on each dollar of premium we charged.
The general operating principle in the industry is that the insurer expects to pay out an amount equal to all premiums earned during a year. These payouts come in the form of operating expenses and claim payments.
I know this long winded treatise does not help much, but if you understasnd what an insurer looks for in terms of customers and risk, perhaps you can use that information to your advantage.
Good luck.

[21rayson]

kill all the lawers and all the frauds and that will help our insurance rates.thats my opinion for what it is worth.

[Jetmugg]

"The general operating principle in the industry is that the insurer expects to pay out an amount equal to all premiums earned during a year. These payouts come in the form of operating expenses and claim payments."
Where do the profits come from? I'm sure that insurance companies are not in business to break even. None of us are that gullible.
SteveM.

[Starloans]

Originally posted by Mohavekid
Generally speaking, the insurance industry as a whole, paid out 5-6% more in losses and expenses during 2003 than it took in in premium. That means we lost 5-6 cents on each dollar of premium we charged.

[slalomskier]

So let me get this straight. You can pay premiums for twenty plus years with no claims and support them. But when you have a couple of accidents that are out of your control and put in claims for them, now your costing them money so they drop you! Isn't the insurance there for the unforseen accidents? It all makes perfect sense to me.
_____________________________
When i doubt GAS it

[LVjetboy]

Maybe the big picture is don't get insurance?
If enough people stop, maybe the scum-sucking insurance companies would die along with the leaching lawyers who support them. A whole industry built on lies, money and a scam would just wither away. Oh wait, my bad. Just another halucination in a society built on deception for profit...at any expense.
In that world, profit ALWAYS justifies the means.
jer

[miketsouth]

Originally posted by LVjetboy
Maybe the big picture is don't get insurance?
....
In that world, profit ALWAYS justifies the means.
jer
and in the jet world (F)=[ALWAYS]=(MA) :D
(hey Jer)
mikeT

[Foggerjet]

I also read somewhere that the Ins. Cos. lost 5-6 %. they must have pencil whipped the figures somehow because they make a SHITLOAD of $. the Ins. cos. are not in the business of giving away their hard extorted $. If you have a claim it is their job to find a way to not pay. If they can't find a way they try to give you some pissass settlement and we go 'round and 'round for a while. Insurance is a bet, whether on a car, house, boat, life anythying. When we buy auto insurance, We are betting that we are going to crash the shit out of it. The ins. co. is betting that we won't.
I hate Insurance, I pay a shitload of money, and walk a fine line of being CANCELLED.

[Mohavekid]

Starloans.
You are an ass.
You don't know what you're talking about and your ignorance is evident by your post.
Look at the industry financial for 2003, most of the large personal lines insurance carriers came in with a Combined Ratio of 105-106%. That means they lost 5-6 cents for each doller of premium they wrote. That does not mean they lost money, they still made money from investments, as I said.
Enjoy your ignorance. :mad:

[Starloans]

Originally posted by Mohavekid
Starloans.
You are an ass.
You don't know what you're talking about and your ignorance is evident by your post.
Look at the industry financial for 2003, most of the large personal lines insurance carriers came in with a Combined Ratio of 105-106%. That means they lost 5-6 cents for each doller of premium they wrote. That does not mean they lost money, they still made money from investments, as I said.
Enjoy your ignorance. :mad:

[HavasuDreamin']

IMHO.........I have insurance to guard against a BIG lawsuit........not to replace a prop, impeller, bottom damage, etc. Insurance is for the jet skier you accidently ran over because he/she cut you off and did donuts right in front of you and now is suing you for $1,000,000.
Prepare to take you insurance company to court to payout. Don't lie to the insurance company. Make sure they have as much documentation as possible. An application form filled out stating speed, hp, etc. Pictures, etc.
The more information they have, the less wiggle room the have to get out of a big payout. When the time comes, if they deny a payout, take them to court. If you haven't lied and if you have provided solid information to them, they will lose in court.
Sad that it has come to this, but the Insurance industry is without a doubt the most fraudulant, F'd up slimy industry out there bar none.
Good Day :cool:

[BiggusJimbus]

I think this report makes it pretty clear...
While it doesn't include the recent fire events (through June '03, most recent filed), it includes lots of major catastrophes across the contry to average out things pretty well...
http://biz.yahoo.com/e/030811/all10-q.html
It's not unlike the kind of "suffering" that the oil and gas industries go through during shortages.
Nothing like a few major events to increase profits.

[miketsouth]

Well, Starloans....answer is 'no market' although she was very knowledgeable and gave me a (possible) lead.
I found one company that would insure one on the TRAILER, wax and all.
Just what is it that when you say the words 'tunnel hull' the door shuts and sounds like 'no market'.
mikeT
Originally posted by Starloans
Try Sawyer Cook ins. in San Bernadino. Ask for Gayla. 800-655-2814. They are a broker and also use Markel but have other companies. Tell them what has happened so far. They should be able to find you something. They have been very helpful to me. Also try running a search here on ***boat. There have been many threads with good insurance info in the past.
When I got insurance on my boat they tried to tell me my HP525 was blown. Merc used to make a 525sc but my motor was not. I had to take pictures and have the dealer write a letter, etc in order to convince them. But it was an extra $1800 a year if I couldn't prove it was not blown. So be prepared to jump a couple of hoops and you should be ok. Good luck.
Dave

[572Daytona]

I was able to get my insurer, USAA, to insure my tunnel but it didn't meet their normal underwriting guidlelines so they had to write an exception for me. In this case it did help that I've been with them for a long time and had a good claim history. (I'm sure it also didn't hurt that I told them I was considering taking the 3 cars and 2 other boats that I already had with them to another company). As part of writing the policy they did talk to the owner of the shop that worked on my boat and that also gave them a comfort level that I wasn't lying about the speed of the boat.

[LVjetboy]

Daytona, I'm surprised they were willing to do that. I also have USAA (24 years) with no auto claims and a good record but they said no...that when my jet ran 80's I haven't threatened taking my business elsewhere but I doubt that would help considering what I run now.
The guy in PA was a good lead I think, just they wouldn't insure for Nevada. If I could find someone like that here...?
"IMHO.........I have insurance to guard against a BIG lawsuit........not to replace a prop, impeller, bottom damage, etc. Insurance is for the jet skier you accidently ran over because he/she cut you off and did donuts right in front of you and now is suing you for $1,000,000."
One industry justifies and supports the other.
jer

[mgar_red]

Hey mikeT,
not sure if you tried these people, but did a quick search and found www.marine-insurance-coverage.com/ , and under the pleasure boats, jet boats are listed. They have an on-line free quote form.
Now about these money leeching companies, I'd say stay away from Allstate and Statefarm ( ...like a good neighbor my ass ). Get this, like maybe six years ago they had the audacity to send my sister, who lives 250 miles away, a disclaimer form for her to sign saying that she wouldn't allow me to drive any of their vehicles. I was dropped from the farm ten years before that.
So why do we even pay for insurance if we can't even use it? Ooops, my bad, b/c my state says it's the law. They must be getting their kickbacks too.

[miketsouth]

I have exhausted all of the normal stuff. This just sucks.
My 17' Sterling Stock Jet is insured cheep with Progressive. They have definite requirements
1. Under 500hp
2. No OT (they dont care about waterjackets, just no OT??)
3. Engine Compartment cover
4. Under 75mph
5. All drivers listed
6. No Drunks or Drugs
7. Seaworthy
All that is ok with me, and i do it.
BoatUS wont cover this boat, nor Allstate, West Marine dropped me, but it is still easily insured.
The boat i want to insure is almost identical but it is a tunnel hull.
'no market'
Im still looking. If i were perfect and never made mistakes i might still want liability insurance in todays litageous society. I am not.
I heard a great story from Brother R..
When asked how fast his boat goes he answered 'i dont know'.
He went on to ask the agent 'how fast your car' 'i dont know' 'see, not many people go out and drive their car to see how fast it will go' 'but i aint drivin a funny car down the street'
touche'
Now, i dont know how fast any of my cars will go but i never knowed but one person who dont know how fast their boat will go, and considering this particular case, i can see why.
mikeT
Originally posted by mgar_red
Hey mikeT,
not sure if you tried these people, but did a quick search and found www.marine-insurance-coverage.com/ , and under the pleasure boats, jet boats are listed. They have an on-line free quote form.

[LVjetboy]

I know how fast my car and boat goes. In all these years I've crashed neither. Do they care about that? Apparently not. I understand my boat is high risk on the lake. All I'm asking is off-lake coverage but can I get that? No. The stigma of on lake risk seems to follow towing and storage.
jer

[miketsouth]

Hey Jer,
My thinking on the insurance thing may be quite different than others. In the boat i planned to make up i will have about $15K invested plus lots of my time. It would be one of the biggest expendatures i have ever made, taking my 'sock' right down to the stink. I stand to loose 15K if somebody steals it.
If someone EVEN SAYS i splashed them and they fell off their jetski while doing do-nuts in front of me, or just about anything else then the lawyers start a reaction much like pavlovs dogs. Now everything i worked for is in jeoprady. Even if there was no fault of my own.
The only thing i am interested in is liability coverage for incidents just like that. Oil spill is another thing. Lets say my boat sinks out here by the pentagon and the yo-yo's get their booms and chemicals to clean up the 6QTS of Mobil1 and 10 gal of 87 octane they will swear it cost them 300K, that and the helicopter to monitor the cleanup. I want coverage for that too.
Well, in my little old I/O i got that. In the little Jet i got that. A friggin 300hp TT exhauts 19' tunnel 'no market'. One guy, who was being quite frank, said that even if i got insurance the difference in price would afford me a 26' cat that can be insured easily. (dont know if that is exactly true, but i got the idea). He knew that the boat would not do but ~65mph but had to use the slide.
As far as knowing how fast my vehicles go, i used to know. I must be sort of geriatric of late. Now they will only go about 10mph above the speed limit.
mikeT
Originally posted by LVjetboy
I know how fast my car and boat goes. In all these years I've crashed neither. Do they care about that? Apparently not. I understand my boat is high risk on the lake. All I'm asking is off-lake coverage but can I get that? No. The stigma of on lake risk seems to follow towing and storage.
jer

[manuel]

I don't know anything about these companies but they sound like they might be worth a look,
-----------------------------
http://www.blackadarmarine.com/
Insurance for HIGH PERFORMANCE, Passenger, and Commercial Vessels.
-------------------------------
http://www.pmafastins.com/
High Performance Marine Insurance, NO BOAT TOO FAST!
--------------------------------
http://www.worldwidemarineins.com/
The Nations Leader in HIGH PERFORMANCE Boat Insurance.
---------------------------------
Manuel

[miketsouth]

Ive tried all the online stuff. Goin for references now. Have not looked in any of the mags suggested, yet.
Same story all over. FU and your little picklefork. Buy a MANS boat. 26' or over.
mikeT

[Starloans]

Mohavekid,
A couple weeks ago I was on this thread and you responded with some financal info on insurance co. Even though you basically said let the flaming begin I got to thinking about it and I realized I should not have. So I have edited my previous post and written this post to formally apologize.
I apoligize to you and anyone else in the insurance industry on here. Even though I'm frustraded with that industry in my business, I shouldn't have made it personal.
I'll send you a pm to this thread.

[Mohavekid]

Starloans,
No sweat.
I can understand your frustration. I hear it from people/customers every day.
No hard feelings on my end.