Dry Headers

[Taylorman]

Can anyone share any experiences they may have running headers dry vs. wet. Im interested to see if there is a noticeable increase in rpms's What was rpm's you run at and what increase did you see.

[Aluminum Squirt]

I saw maybe 100-200 rpm increase if any. Its sounds cooler now and I'm no longer worried about how much water is going through at what RPM-Aluminum Squirt

[TRG]

makes for a much warmer outing! (depending on how big your boat is)

[matt1]

Basically we are thinking about having a shut off valve to pick up some more rpm just at WOT for short amounts of time.

[wsuwrhr]

I run my dry, it gets the boat, along with the back seat pretty hot.
I think I will add some type of cooling this year.
Nighttime running is pretty scary when you look back and see the headers dull red up to the first bend.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

The police DO NOT like it AT ALL.:) :) :) :) :)
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

Nothing like the sound of an unmuffled big block at WOT.
Brian

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by Aluminum Squirt
I saw maybe 100-200 rpm increase if any. Its sounds cooler now and I'm no longer worried about how much water is going through at what RPM-Aluminum Squirt
What type of engine and @ what is your max rpm where you saw the gain?

[HOSS]

They rust quick Taylorman. At least my friends did.
See ***boat decals in the Sandbar.

[Taylorman]

I don't plan on running the dry all the time. Like Matt said, were just wondering if we will see an rpm increase at wot for short periods. I plan on ceramic coating the this summer also, so that should help with rust.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

I run my olds dry and let me tell ya, that b!t*h gets hot:eek: :eek: :eek: the whole ass end of my boat is hot. I have a shut off valve installed before my tee valve so I can add water if I want.I still run them dry though.I love the noise. I gained 200 rpm's om my motor without water.Oh and by the way is sounds bitchin';) ;) Aint nothing like the sound of a big block blowing by the lawnmowerman while his wife is staring at you like GOD:D :D
By the way, I plan on running the chevy dry this year as well;)
396

[Aluminum Squirt]

TM, I'm running a stock SBC at about 4900 RPM's. Before I took the water lines off and mufflers out I had a typical water system but I had a valve so I could run them dry, it sounded better, seemed to pick up a couple of RPM's on top, so I ditched the water system. The boat cops do not like them but they don't hang out where I boat-Aluminum Squirt
PS-Ceramic coating helps avoid rust and stay a little cooler

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by 396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
I run my olds dry and let me tell ya, that b!t*h gets hot:eek: :eek: :eek: the whole ass end of my boat is hot. I have a shut off valve installed before my tee valve so I can add water if I want.I still run them dry though.I love the noise. I gained 200 rpm's om my motor without water.Oh and by the way is sounds bitchin';) ;) Aint nothing like the sound of a big block blowing by the lawnmowerman while his wife is staring at you like GOD:D :D
By the way, I plan on running the chevy dry this year as well;)
396
What rpm range do you run where you gained the 200 rpms.

[cyclone]

i run mine dry. I've got Bassett drag pipes and they sound nasty with no water running through them. they are ceramic coated so they dont rust. I've got an electric valve (thanks Chris and Tyson!!) to turn the water injection on and off from a switch on my dash. I gain about 150rpm on the top end when i shut the water off but, and this is a major thing, if i run for more than a mile with the water shut off, the excessive heat coming from the pipes heat up my fuel tanks so much that the engine will actually "diesel" when i try to shut it off.
I only run them dry on short trips or when racing. If i'm cruising then i turn the water on to keep the people in the rear seat cool. It gets mighty hot back there when the water is off. :D

[Taylorman]

What kind of electric valve is that you got.
At what rpm's did you get the 150 rpm increase.

[matt1]

Gotta be banderlog water injection valve with the optional WOT cut off switch.

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by matt1
Gotta be banderlog water injection valve with the optional WOT cut off switch.
He said he has a switch on the dash. I don't think the banderlog valve has that.

[cyclone]

its not a banderlog valve. Its an electric solenoid valve like the kind used in air transfer systems (think air suspensions on cars and trucks) or water transfers systems. Basically its a 12/24v normally closed valve that you can buy from Grainger for 30 bucks. Mine is wired to a switch on the dash that recieves power from a relay. The relay is triggered by an MSD window switch that kicks on at 3,000 rpm and off at 5,000 rpm. If i leave the switch in the on position, the MSD automatically controls the water injection and i can use the switch to override the system altogether by turning it to the off position. It works much the same way a Banderlog valve would, but at a fraction of the cost.

[Taylorman]

What rpm's are you turning when you see the 150 rpm increase with dry headers?

[cyclone]

5,800rpm depending on weather conditions..but my injection system dumps quite a bit of water into the headers.

[moneysucker]

I jet hotted mine and ran full time dry. Your thoughts for water are a great idea. that is how I ran 2 seasons ago I have a billet water valve CP sells them which I would shut off while racing or idling. Jet hot will change color running dry full time. The color dulls so this year I am reinstalling the valve to try to keep my splash guard from melting again.

[LVjetboy]

Running headers dry can be dangerous! I lit a coat on fire once with dry headers. That coat's probably still on the bottom of Ceasers Creek Lake (Ohio) so I wouldn't recommend always running dry.
Cyclone's setup sounds similar to mine. I'm using an MSD rpm switch which give tunable low and high, with a manual override, and an old N20 solenoid for water control. Just parts I had laying around the garage. I may need a different solenoid to get a bit more flow pressure.
jer

[cyclone]

Originally posted by moneysucker
I jet hotted mine and ran full time dry. Your thoughts for water are a great idea. that is how I ran 2 seasons ago I have a billet water valve CP sells them which I would shut off while racing or idling. Jet hot will change color running dry full time. The color dulls so this year I am reinstalling the valve to try to keep my splash guard from melting again.
i ran my headers dry most of last summer so the ceramic coating is a dull grey now. After hearing people in the back seat of the boat bitching about the heat i installed a water injection system. Sounds like its real similar to LVJetboys.

[Taylorman]

Cyclone, can you elaborate a little more on the valve that opens and closes for water. Im looking on Graingers web sight and can find and 12 volt valves. They are 24V, 110 and 220. Any info would be great.

[Bense468]

The way Cyclone is running his water is the way to go. They use those window switches for NOS too. I never thought about putting the relay in for the manual switch. I just left it wired so below 2,500 the water is off, between 2500 and 5000 the water is on, and when you mash the gas over 5 g's the water shuts down. Bitchen setup and I always wondered what the Banderlog setup did over something like this.

[Taylorman]

That is exaxtly how mine will be set up with the exception of the rpms. I bought the solenoid and valve on my lunch hour from Grainger. Kind of pricy but will be worth every penny to get rid of that dam t valve. I will order my window switch tonight from Summit.

[AdrenelineOD]

WATER CRACKS METAL!

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by AdrenelineOD
WATER CRACKS METAL!
HUH:confused:
What the hell are you talking about?

[Oldsquirt]

Originally posted by Bense468
The way Cyclone is running his water is the way to go. They use those window switches for NOS too. I never thought about putting the relay in for the manual switch. I just left it wired so below 2,500 the water is off, between 2500 and 5000 the water is on, and when you mash the gas over 5 g's the water shuts down. Bitchen setup and I always wondered what the Banderlog setup did over something like this.
Bense, the Banderlog valve gives you 2 choices of cut-in speed for the water, either 1500 rpm or 2000 rpm. It also gives you the option of a WOT cutout using a simple throttle switch(like is used for NOS) wired to the valve assembly. Rather than leaving the water off indefinitely when used this way, it will cut the water back in after 13 seconds. Gives you time for a good hard run, but keeps header bluing to a minimum. The Banderlog also has a real nice filter strainer built in. You would be surprised how valuable that can be.
I am a very happy Banderlog user and happen to be paying customer #1. :D If my damn machinist hadn't taken so long, I would have been part of the beta-testing team(they got theirs free)

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Originally posted by Taylorman
What rpm range do you run where you gained the 200 rpms.
I went from 4600 to 4800r;s
396

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Originally posted by cyclone
its not a banderlog valve. Its an electric solenoid valve like the kind used in air transfer systems (think air suspensions on cars and trucks) or water transfers systems. Basically its a 12/24v normally closed valve that you can buy from Grainger for 30 bucks. Mine is wired to a switch on the dash that recieves power from a relay. The relay is triggered by an MSD window switch that kicks on at 3,000 rpm and off at 5,000 rpm. If i leave the switch in the on position, the MSD automatically controls the water injection and i can use the switch to override the system altogether by turning it to the off position. It works much the same way a Banderlog valve would, but at a fraction of the cost.
Shit that sounds like a good idea! What are the parts needed to run that setup? Give me a run down because I am buying new headers this year for the chevy. I am highly interested.
396

[Taylorman]

The new water system install has begun. 396, the valve that I bought from Grainer's part number is 4A700. Go to www.grainer.com and do a search for that part number. The solenoid that opens and closes the valve was a part that they special ordered. I don't think they nornally carry it. I know the manufacturer of it though so you can get them to special order it if you can't find a 12V solenoid. They sell plenty of them just not a 12V solenoid. I will soon order the MSD window switch from Summit. So here are the parts needed.
1. Grainger part numerb 4A700 valve.
2. 12V Solenoid to open valve.
3. MSD window switch part numerb 8956.
Total cost for these 3 part is about $200. For what this system will do, i think its well worth it. I was playing with the valve and solenoid today to see how it works and i think it will work great. It flows up to 280 gpm and handles up to 300psi for water so it should work great.
T-Valve is gone.

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Ok I searched for all the parts except for the solenoid. I am lost on that part.Where do you get the solenoid? Do you have to run a msd 6al box. I have one if I have to. Can you run it on a 6al box?
396
Wait a minute.......... That valve looks identical to the dump valve we use on hydraulics. It comes with a solenoid. I will take a pic today and post it to see if its the same solenoid.

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by 396_WAYS_TO_SPIT
Ok I searched for all the parts except for the solenoid. I am lost on that part.Where do you get the solenoid? Do you have to run a msd 6al box. I have one if I have to. Can you run it on a 6al box?
396
Wait a minute.......... That valve looks identical to the dump valve we use on hydraulics. It comes with a solenoid. I will take a pic today and post it to see if its the same solenoid.
The solenoid attaches to the valve and opens the valve when you put power to it. Like I said before, Grainger does not have any 12V solenoids in their catalog. The Grainger store I went to just happened to have one in stock that they special order for one of their customers.
The solenoid I bought is made by Alco Controls in St. Louis. The part number is MMG. Its a 12V DC solenoid coil. The barcode on the box is 81344 63524. Call them at 314-569-4500 if you can't find one anywhere. They should be able to point you in the right direction.
As for the MSD question, Im not sure if you have to have an MSD 6AL to operate the window switch. Im sure it can be operated with the signal wire from the tach. Check with MSD on that one. The window switch is there part number 8956. Hope this helps I have a diagram i can email you on how mine is set up if you want.
Kevin

[jim lee]

Total cost for these 3 part is about $200
Now this -is- a fraction of the cost. That would be.. 4/5 of the cost of the Banderlog valve.
Your going to buy all these bits, have to special order some of them, install all the pieces, wire them all togather hope it all works and give up the filter just to save $50?
They were right, I don't belong on this planet..
-jim lee

[Bense468]

right if you didn't have parts in your garage and had to go out and do it all, I probaby would just run the Banderlog deal. I was not too sure what the banderlog did over setting up your own window switch. Oldsquirt helped with the explanation. Thanks

[Oldsquirt]

Originally posted by jim lee
They were right, I don't belong on this planet..
-jim lee
Ahhhh, sure you do Jim. :D

[esabataj]

:confused: Who's got the best price on the Banderlog valve and what's their part #?

[1Bahnerjet]

Jim Lee,
MidWestCal ? is that like Central Cal? on the Coast?

[jim lee]

MidWest Cal would be Morgan Hill. Between San Jose and Gilroy.
Who sells them the cheapest? That's not typically the big issue. They all sell usually within $5 of one another. The real question is, who has them in stock? I -think- CP Performance may have one and Vick Hubbords Speed and marine might have one. Most of the other dealers just call me on the other phone line when you call them.
I have (1) in stock at the moment. There are {rumble scratch.. paw, scrape..} Parts for.. Maybe (5) more laying about the shop. Its going to be weeks and weeks before another shipment of parts gets here. The factory is busy working on other stuff right now. Chocolate Bombers (http://www.banderlog.com/products/chocolateBombers/chocolateBombers.html)
If you order water valves online from Banderlog, shipping is free.
And that's that!
-jim lee