So Are You Still Observing the Picket Lines At The Grocery Stores?

[MagicMtnDan]

We didn't from day one.
The union's nuts. Today they were supposed to picket in front of one of the grocery stores' CEO's house!
How can these workers think they have any leverage at all with the store chains? Is it because the union leaders tell them they do?
It seems obvious to me that the stores are out to bust the union.
The strikers have no chance of EVER getting back the money they've lost while out on strike.
How can these low-to-middle income workers afford to stay on strike?

[welk2party]

They have no chance of ever making that money back. The fact that management even refuses to come to the negotiating table should tell them they are out to bust the union.
My wife and I cross all the time. Gotta eat! We pay huge for our healthcare...nobody to complain and bitch to about it.

[mirvin]

Nope

[JetBoatRich]

The union is saying the benefits will stop soon:yuk: We observed for a while, I went in a few different times. Had an incisdent with a striker, jerk:mad: Problem is nothing is on sale anymore, they need to make up money for lost income. Became a gold member at Costco and said screw Vons. At the same time, the senior store people make a pretty big hourly wage. My neighbor friend was making $38 an hour as a cashier, to scan food:confused: sure they cut her hours but come on $38 an hour:mad: Not many people make that for an unskilled job, IMO.
They will hire cheaper labor and move on

[framer1]

The workers don't have a chance to win they should have realize that you shouldn't go on strike if your job only takes 3 hours to learn:(

[bear down]

Don't get me started on Unions....:mad: ...We try to buy as much as we can at the stores that have strikers pickiting the stores. We are still dealing with our drivers on strike. An example of the deceit and lies by union official was that last week all the drivers at their camp by our warehouse facility all cheered and applauded as one of the union officials was talking to them. A union official was motivating the strikers to stay the course and keep the strike strong and that it is almost over and that the companies stock was tumbling and losing lots of money. Well the funny thing is that our company is a private company and we are not publicly traded as the union said. Sorry for the rant but I feel bad for the strikers who are just misguided.

[Ziggy]

If no agreement can be made in the near future and the Arbitration leader declares an impass then the stores will be legally allowed to hire new permament non-union employees. Most recent tactic in San Diego county was the picketers returned to Ralphs(or were supposed to) but not to harrass the customers but rather to block the loading docks....:rolleyes:
I feel for the workers that have been put out but their leadership colored them a poor picture from the beginning, plus public opinion has not been behind the strike as they have in years past.
To answer your question Dan, been crossing the line from day one.

[WHIPPED502]

I haven't crossed the picket line nor have most of the people I have talked to. There are other grocery chains to shop at that aren't on strike. I have heard it so many times, "I have to pay for my insurance why shouldn't they?" These people sound like a bunch of little jelous kids. Little Bobby got a toy, why didn't I get one? Wa wa wa.
There are other chains that make a profit and pay their employee's the same benefits and salary as Ralphs, Vons, and Albertsons. They just know how to contol there payroll spending and inventory. I feel these people are fighting the battle for those that do have paid insurance. If they lose we may see other companies try to take the same path. We should feel good for what these people have and not be upset about what you don't have.
No I don't work in the grocery business!!!!!!

[DAB]

I've been crossing from day 1. Not that I am anti-union, my father was an Iron Worker for 25 years, and my little brother is a meat cutter for Albertsons. I think they put a little too much faith this time into their Union Reps to be able to strike a deal rather quickly, for the length of time they have been off the money they have list would have more than covered any increases in premiums and a possible reduction in hours. Like it has been said many times, as my companies Health costs rise, so do my premiums.

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by JetBoatRich
[B] My neighbor friend was making $38 an hour as a cashier, to scan food:confused: sure they cut her hours but come on $38 an hour:mad: Not many people make that for an unskilled job, IMO[./B]
JBR, I don't know what union your neighbor works for but the top pay for a Journeyman Clerk is $17.90 a hour. They do get time and 1/2 on Sundays and triple time on major holidays.
The battle is between the union for survial and the companies and the employee's are caught in the middle. This strike has hurt my business and I'll cross anytime and did from day one. The union is out of touch with the world.

[Kilrtoy]

38 an hour Rich,
That high Desert air is getting to you.
There is no clerk making 38 an hour checking, maybe managing the whole store.....
If there is a clerk making 38 an hour or 73K a year,
then I will cross the picket lines and tell them all to **** off.
Ill shop else where, price club or vallarta

[Ziggy]

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
38 an hour Rich,
That high Desert air is getting to you.
There is no clerk making 38 an hour checking, maybe managing the whole store.....
If there is a clerk making 38 an hour or 73K a year,
then I will cross the picket lines and tell them all to **** off.
Ill shop else where, price club or vallarta
I think what Rich was saying is that some of the top store management(non-union) peeps are working the checkouts during this strike period.

[JetBoatRich]

I love this place, my wife and asked him twice:mad: could not believe him either. She had been there since a kid, twenty years later who knows. He may have stretched it. She was only working 30 hours a week at strike time.

[C-2]

I’m tired of buying 3rd world produce that looks like it was stuck on the shelves when the strike started. And buying 15lb. bags of broccoli from Costco isn’t cutting it either.
I still can’t figure out why the employees haven’t beaten the crap out of their union rep’s and officials. Talk about the wool being pulled over somebody’s eyes….the union knew from day one they couldn’t afford a long term strike; they knew the locked out employees could not collect unemployment benefits; they knew the striking/locked out employees would lose their benefits after 60 days; yet they told the union members it was/is in their best interest to strike? To quote Sam Kinison “OH OH OH OH OOOOOOHHHHHH, ARE YOU F*!@#!N’ STUPID!!!!!!
My wife has at least five of her friends that have left the grocery business all together as a result of the strike. OH DUH, guess the union forgot about that possibility as well….realistically losing 1/3 of their members since they have gained employment elsewhere.
“Out of touch” is right…waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of touch. Dumbasses.
Union reps are now telling their members this thing might be over by the 1st of the new month. Too me that sez they are probably accepting the original deal that was proposed to them before the strike. Dumbasses.
Good news is I understand Spanish better; I’ve gotten used to (and now kind of enjoy) listening to obnoxiously loud mariachi music while shopping; my eyes have adjusted to the strobe and flashing siren lights...and I've lost weight!
:)

[Kilrtoy]

Good news is I understand Spanish better; I’ve gotten used to (and now kind of enjoy) listening to obnoxiously loud mariachi music while shopping; my eyes have adjusted to the strobe and flashing siren lights...and I've lost weight!
That is too funny....
I put on the spanish station when going to the market to get the wife ready for the culture change....

[Havasu Hangin']

Both the Retail Clerks and big three have lost more than they would have paid (if they would have caved) over the entire contract. Both sides are digging in because any settlement here will have ramifications in negotiations across the country.
From what I understand, the union has agreed to share the cost of healthcare benefit increases. The chains want to institute co-pays...which opens the door for co-pay increases on future contracts...so the union is standing firm. Just the rumor.
To the average clerk, it won't matter...they'll still be paying more for benefits- it's just how it's structured. The last contract was negotiated with little provisions for sharing healthcare increases, and the chains ate a 13% increase.
Essentially...those people standing in front of the stores with signs (and the stockholders in the chains) are pawns. I don't think the senior management of the chains and unions have given up salary....yet Safeway has lost $254MM in revenue last quarter alone.
Burd (Safeway CEO) has a reputation as a union-buster, but I don't think they'll be able to close for 30 days and re-open- the stockholders would never allow it. One option would be to close and re-open (24 hours?) under a new banner...but they'd walk away from any brand-equity they've built (or bought).
Rumors are that the pawns will be on the picketlines into April...with thier benefits running out this month.

[Havasu Hangin']

...the Food 4 Less contract is up in February.

[CARRERA]

No not me.

[Rvr2Bch]

We have had huge problems with the people on strike here at our local Vons. They would harass us as we drove by, and were going into the Sav On next door. When I aproached them and explained that we are going to Sav On, and not Vons, they stormed away yelling "I don't have time for any of your negative B.S. Right now!!" After that, we decided not to honor the picket lines any longer.:mad:
Here is a quote from our local paper...
Demaegt, an unofficial union spokesperson and self-appointed agitator, doesn’t mince words. He compared the slow trickle of Vons customers who don’t honor picket lines to the slow acceptance of the holocaust by Germany’s middle class.
“The scab is the lowest form of humanity that ever existed on this earth,” Demaegt said.
Click here to read the entire article (http://easyreader.hermosawave.net/news2002/storypage.asp?StoryID=20023290&IssuePath=news2004/0122/)
-Rvr2Bch

[Tab]

I'm not crossing the picket line because of my cause. My cause is I don't have the time to shop because I have to work 6 days a frickin' week to pay for the health insurance premiums for my family.(The wife however does, and has crossed since day one because the family has to eat. She however leans toward Stater Bro's, etc. that aren't striking because she doesn't want to hurt the feeling of the local Ralph's employees). All that having been said,.............The problem is escalating health care costs. It's kicking all of our ass's!!!!!!!!!!!! What needs to happen is these unions need allign(that does't look right) with other industry organizations that have power but aren't necessarily unions(aicpa, etc), to put the cumulative pressure of the masses they can gather, and then lobby to put into action measures to control health care costs. I'll have to get back to you all re just how the hell that's going to work.....

[TRG]

i did not cross the lines for about the first mo. or so, until that POS union worker (formerly an albertsons emp.) decided to follow my wife ( and daughter) to her car and proceed to tell her where to shop! and hit on her all during their conversation! she finally turned to the asshole and informed him about our ins. costs,... my whole family is on "cobra"ins., if any one of you have ever had to use this state ins.,...god help you, because the rates that we pay ar out of this world: my wife 27 yoa and daughter10 mo. and myself 31 yoa are paying a mo. $575.00 for the whole canole', dental ,vision,...everything, and they are bitching about, what,... a small increase( 50$ a mo?) im sorry but now when "WE" cross the lines i purposly walk right near that same guy, and when he askes us to shop else where,...i stop and turn to him to say that, "i will offer you 5 min. out of my 14 hr. workday to hear you tell me, why i should shop somewhere else,... then after he does'nt make any valid points, (usually about 1-2min.) i ask him why i should shop somewhere that does not "DIRECTLY" benefit me and my family,...bottom line?
they mostly roll their eyes and get back to their job..."PICKETING"!!
P.S. if i dont make sence...it makes pure sence in my head!
Todd

[Scream]

JBR, I don't know what union your neighbor works for but the top pay for a Journeyman Clerk is $17.90 a hour. They do get time and 1/2 on Sundays and triple time on major holidays.
We've got a friend that is, I mean was, making about $22.00/hour plus bennies...She got paid double time for Sundays regardless if she worked OT or regardless if she worked 6 other days, and she got paid tripple time for Holidays...Full Medical, Full Dental, Full Optical, I think they even paid for thier dog for Crying out loud...
I've been saying to my wife to cross that line, obviously I'm not a Union lover, but my wife is loyal to her friend and tries very hard not to cross when she can.
Working both sides of the fence here, but that's how it goes.

[Tab]

Todd, I believe we see eye to eye re this matter!!!!(I'm trying to put one of those agree freekin' smiley faces here_______ but don't seem to be able to currently pull it off... :-) .....

[TRG]

tab, i went to the albertsons over off of grand and diamondbar blve. last week and saw a fist fight!! in the parking lot,...between a picketer and a shopper!(a HEEEUGE SHOPPER!!) well to say the least, the picketer got his ass handed to him!....and nobody stepped in...UNION, BROTHERHOOD HUH?lol

[CrazyHippy]

What picket lines??:D :D :D
None in Vegas
BJH

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by Tab
I'm not crossing the picket line because of my cause. My cause is I don't have the time to shop because I have to work 6 days a frickin' week to pay for the health insurance premiums for my family.(The wife however does, and has crossed since day one because the family has to eat. She however leans toward Stater Bro's, etc. that aren't striking because she doesn't want to hurt the feeling of the local Ralph's employees). All that having been said,.............The problem is escalating health care costs. It's kicking all of our ass's!!!!!!!!!!!! What needs to happen is these unions need allign(that does't look right) with other industry organizations that have power but aren't necessarily unions(aicpa, etc), to put the cumulative pressure of the masses they can gather, and then lobby to put into action measures to control health care costs. I'll have to get back to you all re just how the hell that's going to work.....
Just vote Democratic (oh wait, you probably already are) - vote for John Kerry who wants the entire country to have health care - but he doesn't explain who is going to PAY FOR HEALTHCARE!
Of course, WE ALL WILL via MORE TAXES. If these guys get in control this country will soon look like Canada or those socialist countries in Europe. We can all expect to be paying a LOT more taxes with the Dems in control.

[Laveyman]

I observe the picket line every time I walk through it! :D

[Essex502]

Walked right in every time. There is virtually no alternative to the big 3 grocery chains where I live so we don't have much choice. I'll be damned to drive out of our valley to shop for grocerys. However, having said that...there is no reason why we don't fill up on non-perishables in volume at Costco or at Basha's when we're in Havasu every other weekend.

[TheLurker]

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Just vote Democratic (oh wait, you probably already are) - vote for John Kerry who wants the entire country to have health care - but he doesn't explain who is going to PAY FOR HEALTHCARE!
Of course, WE ALL WILL via MORE TAXES. If these guys get in control this country will soon look like Canada or those socialist countries in Europe. We can all expect to be paying a LOT more taxes with the Dems in control.
MMD, I was wondering if you read the whole post or just the first line. Originally posted by Tab
"I'm not crossing the picket line because of my cause."
I get that impression from your opening statement.
"Just vote Democratic (oh wait, you probably already are) "
that you didn’t.
I think the only point he is trying to make is everyone needs to get together to put a stop to escalating costs of health care in this country.
I personally put the blame on liars/lawyers (stole that from someone cuz I liked it) and the cost of insurance and litigation that all companies have to pay . That is why you can get the same prescription drug in Mexico or Canada for a third of the price. That’s not a generic brand either.
For the record I agree with whoever called these unemployed grocery workers pawns. The union is not fighting for them. Those people have lost more wages than it would have cost them in premiums / co-pays to have accepted the last offer that was made.

[little rowe boat]

I will honor the picket lines, until the strike is settled. Shop Stater Bros.

[HighRoller]

The union looks out for the union. End of story.And if you don't have math skills good enough to discover a month's lost salary cannot be made up by the elimination of a 50 dollar co-pay, you deserve what you get! When I drove through the line at the Ralph's DC in Riverside they were jabbering at me with that "scab" BS so I pulled the air brakes and was down on the ground in about 2 seconds right in front of them. I wasn't gonna do anything, just enjoyed seeing the look on their faces when a 6'3" 275lb truck driver came out of the cab like a pro wrestler off the top rope! funny thing, when I asked "you got something to say to me?" they didn't answer. And when I drove out they didn't make eye contact. Too bad, I was waving a wad of 20 dollar bills at them-just to rub it in!!!!"Look at all this SCAB money baby!

[little rowe boat]

Like I said shop Stater Bros,even you scabs. :p :p :p

[Tab]

Dan, Lurker's interpretation of what I said is correct. For the record I'm a supporter of George and Arnie. Diane(that desert buying bitch) and Barbara are at the bottom of my favorites list...........make that below the bottom).

[Essex502]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
Like I said shop Stater Bros,even you scabs. :p :p :p
Stater Bros. might be an option for you 909er's but in Santa Clarita it takes 30+ minutes to get to the only Stater Bros. in the Valley. Not a chance will I spend that time when the Ralph's is only 3 short blocks away.

[summerlove]

Neither the wife or i have crossed a picket line since the strike began! I remember as a kid not being able to eat grapes because my family observed the grape boycott of the UFW and Cesar Chavez. My dad never drank coors (he drank Olympia), and my sister got a ford instead of a GM vehicle because at the time she turned 16 GM was on strike! So, it's a inbred position with my family. I know MMD will throw me under the bus and all, but it's a big world and we all have our priorities, some are just different than others...

[CMABadseed]

my grandpa...still out shopping. always wears a shirt he had made when he goes out to the store... very simply the shirt says
"you hungry yet?"
gotta love it!

[Havasu Cig]

I have a friend that started working at Ralphs in high school. He is still there (currently on strike) 20 years later. I don't see him often, but talked to him the other day. Another friend hired him to work at his business while the strike continues, so at least he had enough brains to get another job instead of standing on the picket lines.
We talked for a while about the issues, and I really did not agree with his positions. He said that the fear the workers have now is that the union will be broken. He wants to go back to work, but is stuck in the middle. I told him I pay several hundred dollars a month for health care, and still pay a co-pay for visits, meds ect.. he really did not have a response to that. I think he, as well as his co-workers, are a little out of touch.
that being said, I cross the picket lines all the time. I used to never go to the store, but after my other 1/2 was harrased one day I make it a point to go as often as possible. I have not had anybody confront me yet, they would rather pick on a female by herself. They definitely are not winning any sympathy from the public when they treat people like that.

[jbtrailerjim]

Been crossing them since day 1. I've been shopping at Stater Bros. lately because the Albertson's by my house hardly has any meat and very little produce. They also don't have any good sales on anything either anymore. I wish this would just be over with. I'm sick of it. My wife and I just want our old Albertson's back.

[mbrown2]

Originally posted by HighRoller
The union looks out for the union. End of story.And if you don't have math skills good enough to discover a month's lost salary cannot be made up by the elimination of a 50 dollar co-pay, you deserve what you get! When I drove through the line at the Ralph's DC in Riverside they were jabbering at me with that "scab" BS so I pulled the air brakes and was down on the ground in about 2 seconds right in front of them. I wasn't gonna do anything, just enjoyed seeing the look on their faces when a 6'3" 275lb truck driver came out of the cab like a pro wrestler off the top rope! funny thing, when I asked "you got something to say to me?" they didn't answer. And when I drove out they didn't make eye contact. Too bad, I was waving a wad of 20 dollar bills at them-just to rub it in!!!!"Look at all this SCAB money baby!
That's funny shit HR...:D

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by Tab
Dan, Lurker's interpretation of what I said is correct. For the record I'm a supporter of George and Arnie. Diane(that desert buying bitch) and Barbara are at the bottom of my favorites list...........make that below the bottom).
My apologies to you Tab. My liberal/socialist radar is probably too sensitive these days - what with all the Social-crats in debates (carving up President Bush like a school of piranha around a bleeding fish) and listening to that Howard Dean character screaming about him taking every state in the union.
When I read your post and saw the comments about unions aligning to fight back the high cost of healthcare I started to see red. In my opinion, unions aren't worth much these days except to themselves (the unions, not the union workers). I believe that unions can help us drive down the cost of healthcare about as much as I believe that Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, Howard Dean, Al Sharpton, Dennis Kucinich (sp?), and Al Gore are all good for this country.

[HighRoller]

On the serious side, my buddy's wife is 38 and has worked for Von's since she was about 20. They just had their first child and the only reason she is still working(part-time) is so she can get her 20 years in and collect the pension.Now all of that is in jeopardy because of the unions. If Von's ends up renaming or firing workers(or both) she will get screwed out of her pension. The only good thing is that he's got a killer job and they won't have to worry after the union hoses her retirement down the drain because they don't know how to "pick their battles".

[chub]

Hey BEAR DOWN you' re gonna love me.... I'm a union member not of the grocery ind. but still a unon worker so we, my wife and I will not cross a picket line and I'm also a PACKER FAN. Let's see how did the Bears season end. Oh Yeah...not in the play offs again. :yuk:

[Caribbean Jet]

What picket line?:cool:

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by chub
Hey BEAR DOWN you' re gonna love me.... I'm a union member not of the grocery ind. but still a unon worker so we, my wife and I will not cross a picket line and I'm also a PACKER FAN. Let's see how did the Bears season end. Oh Yeah...not in the play offs again. :yuk:
Chub, are you serious about comparing the Packers to the Bears because you're a union guy and you don't like what BearDown said?!
Oh yeah cheesehead?! Well how 'bout this, Bret Farve CHOKED! Hope you enjoy watching the Eagles oops, the Panthers in the Super Bowl. :D :yuk:

[Essex502]

Originally posted by summerlove
Neither the wife or i have crossed a picket line since the strike began! I remember as a kid not being able to eat grapes because my family observed the grape boycott of the UFW and Cesar Chavez. My dad never drank coors (he drank Olympia), and my sister got a ford instead of a GM vehicle because at the time she turned 16 GM was on strike! So, it's a inbred position with my family. I know MMD will throw me under the bus and all, but it's a big world and we all have our priorities, some are just different than others...
Are you saying your family is "inbred"?:D

[OGShocker]

Never did!

[boatnam2]

i have not and will not until the strike is over.

[ROZ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recently heard that the changes that the grocers want to make are only for new hires and not current empoyees.... I also heard that the strike will only cost the grocers about 1 percent of ther gross... That leads me to believer that they have a hell of a long way to go before they begin to hurt... Probably longer than the union expects. I've always shopped at Stater Bros. because it's a lot closer to me, but I went into the busy Albertson's a couple days ago because Stater was out of a particular Reisling by wife likes.... If the wife is happy, than I'm happy:cool:

[Essex502]

A little personal history first...
When I was 16 and needed a job badly I went to work as a "retail clerk" in the Retail Clerks Union local 324 (now called something else) paid the dues every paycheck and couldn't wait to get the hell out of the union. Did nothing for us.
Now...zip 30+ years ahead...I can say for a fact that the jobs in the grocery workers union with the exception of the meat cutters takes less skill than 30 years ago. The inception of scanners and modern technology has reduced the checker's job to standing and listening to the little beep. Occasionally they actually have to punch in a code for produce or a coupon. They hardly have to count change as the register tells them how much in paper money and spits out the coins automatically. THIS IS UNSKILLED LABOR ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT. Stocking shelfs...HOW MUCH SKILL DOES IT TAKE TO "SQUARE-UP" A BOX? Very difficult. If these folks really wanted a decent salary they need to get real skills and leave those positions to kids coming out of school for summer work of before they graduate and move into a real career. These workers are out of touch with industry in general. Virtually all companies are requiring their employees to shoulder some of the costs of their healthcare. Two tiered compensation? Hell, we had that 30-some years ago when I was hired at a lower scale than older union members. I have no sympathy for the strikers or locked out members of the UFCW. They picked their lot and let them live with it.

[NorCal Gameshow]

I left ralphs a few years back after being with them for many years(in management). the way I read the company proposal, the co-pay on medical was a small part of the problem.the lower pay for new hires and the lack of medical for them, effects every employee. in order for a manager to keep his mix down(average pay per hour)he is going to use the employees on the "new contract" more, means less hours (less money) for the higher rate employees.
it's not easy to quit a job you've been at for 10 to 20 years..so, the just quit answer is a little weak...
sorry for the long winded reply, it's just that i keep reading about the co-pay and it's much more than that....

[chub]

MMD look at Bear Downs avatar. It's all in good fun with the Packers/Bears thing. I just get the feeling he doesn't like either the Packers or unions and I'm into both. The thing I love about America the most is that you might not agree with what I like or believe in but we ain't gonna go killing each other over it. Shit if I ever meet Bear Down I 'd buy him a frosty one in a heartbeat.

[totenhosen]

Originally posted by NorCal Gameshow
I left ralphs a few years back after being with them for many years(in management). the way I read the company proposal, the co-pay on medical was a small part of the problem.the lower pay for new hires and the lack of medical for them, effects every employee. in order for a manager to keep his mix down(average pay per hour)he is going to use the employees on the "new contract" more, means less hours (less money) for the higher rate employees.
it's not easy to quit a job you've been at for 10 to 20 years..so, the just quit answer is a little weak...
It's easy to quit and find another job when you have a marketable skill.

[Mrs. Bordsmnj]

Haven't crossed the picket lines once and won't. I don't neccessarily know the particulars of the strike but my man is a union guy (electritian, not grocery) and we just won't cross. Its a union thing, I guess.

[Tremor Therapy]

I've read enough on this that I feel compelled to post....and probably get flamed. Oh well, its just one persons opinion.
Some idiots have recession proof jobs, and they are just too damn stupid to figure it out. I lost my job 2 1/2 years ago, and spent 6 months trying to find another. Fortunately I found another job that only cut my salary 15%, which fortunately did not cut into my boating lifestyle.......as long as my wife was employed. This new job has the full benefit package, but I pay about $85 per week for the coverage. My old job cost me $20 per month for everything!
Now my wife lost her job almost a year ago, and she wasn't working from April-September, and we were lucky, because with her home we would not have to pay for child care over the summer. Now although this was fortunate for us, it drained all of our savings having her unemployed for 7 months. She looked for a job during this entire time, and unless she was ready to take a menial job for $6-$8 per hour, she couldn't find anything. She applied at all of the grocery chains during this time, and was not hired until lo-and-behold, some idiots decided they shouldn't have to join the rest of corporate America, and go on strike.
Just in case none of you were watching, people were loosing their jobs by the tens of thousands! And thousands of people were taking paycuts, and having to give up benefits just to keep their jobs! So my wife is offered a job at $17.90 per hour, and can work as many hours as she wants. Hummm.....let me think about that for a second.....okay, I'll take it.
So now she is a "scab" and has had to deal with the picketers, and their lovely personalities and bullshit. If I had known about the true nature of these people, I would never have shopped there in the first place. And to top it all off, one of the fine people who is picketting Ralph's threatens my wife, making sexual harassing remarks, and screams and curses her down the entire way to her car.
Thats real impressive, boo-****ing-hoo! I've met this asshole, informed him exactly what his life is worth to me, and I make a point of buying everything I can from that Ralphs, and make a point of showing him I did. I'm real sorry you idiots decided to listen to your union reps, and walk out of recession proof jobs during a piss-poor economy. Maybe next time you will realize what a good job you had, and as it is out here in the real business world......there is always someone else more than willing to work hard and take your job.
Just my $.02

[Ivan Dan]

You people crack me up! Its SOOOO easy for you to talk shit when you are not involved in it. Let me just start out by saying that I'm self employed and pay for my own health benefits and YA it sucks. BUT why should you or I hold it against someone else because they don't have to pay for theirs? Are you jealous? IMO more power to em and sucks to be us for having to pay for ours.
I have mentioned on this thread before that my dad is a union member and works at the Albertson's DC in brea. My dad doesn't make shit and busts his ass 10 hours a day in a 32 degree freezer driving a stupid stand up forklift and works Sunday thru Wednesday. Up until about 3 or 4 years ago he worked nights from 4:30 pm till 3:30 am. Now they are trying to take away what little positives he does have? Not to mention he's been with the company/union for 27 years and only needs 3 more years to retire. Do you think he really wants to strike? Do you think he likes picketing for $250 per week? HELL NO!
Some of you people are so wrapped up in your way of life and don't stop to realize that it could be you just as easy in that position. And get a new job? After doing the same job for almost 30 years? Would YOU want to start all over at a new job?
This is the kind of treatment you should expect from a company after working for them for almost 30 years?
Take a minute and think about if the shoe was on the other foot and what YOU would be doing if it was you in their position.
I'm not trying to cause any problems here its just my opinion and you are entitled to yours.

[Essex502]

TT - What's your wife's background ... we have hundreds of jobs open through the SoCal area. (aerospace believe it or not!)

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by chub
MMD look at Bear Downs avatar. It's all in good fun with the Packers/Bears thing. I just get the feeling he doesn't like either the Packers or unions and I'm into both. The thing I love about America the most is that you might not agree with what I like or believe in but we ain't gonna go killing each other over it. Shit if I ever meet Bear Down I 'd buy him a frosty one in a heartbeat.
No problem. I don't like unions and I still think Favre choked :D (but I do like Favre)

[al cole'holic]

I observed the picket lines in my headlights last night when I curbed my truck and parked at the front doors right in the middle of it :D

[Essex502]

Originally posted by Ivan Dan
Some of you people are so wrapped up in your way of life and don't stop to realize that it could be you just as easy in that position. And get a new job? After doing the same job for almost 30 years? Would YOU want to start all over at a new job?
AS you might have noticed in my post - IT WAS ME and I got the hell out.
Originally posted by Ivan Dan
Take a minute and think about if the shoe was on the other foot and what YOU would be doing if it was you in their position.
I made damn sure NOT TO BE IN THAT POSITION AGAIN. As you must have made the same choice in going into real estate.
Each person has to make their own choice and live with the consequences of those choices.
Skilled worker = $$$
Educated worker = $$$
Educated & skilled worker = $$$$$
Uneducated and unskilled = $

[bonesfab]

the strike is for the birds. i live 2 minutes from a vons where my mom works and yes i cross the lines. why should i drive ten minutes out of my way for fricken milk. they ought to be happy to have jobs. the union is the one f@#king everything up. shes been with vons for thirty years and they keep messin with the retirment age years in service ratio she finally retired early because of the strike and all its b.s.. heres one for pickiting stories me and the family were eating ice cream in the vons shopping center when an old friend of the family ( who happens to work at vons also) came up and said "so i here you crossing the lines!!" all snotty and sarcastically. i basically said ya what about it... not my problem!!! ill leave now

[Tremor Therapy]

Exactly...I am entitled to my opinion. I lost a job I had for 4 years. My wife lost a job she had for 8 years. I have never, nor has my wife ever, worked under the guise of a union. And since I did loose my job, and my wife lost hers, I think maybe I do have a little more enlightenment than those who are just union bashing.
Am I jealous that I don't have the benefits your dad had...get ****ing real.....all my wife or I wanted was a job. Besides, like I stated my last job was $20 per month for the entire enchilada! Just take a look around. You are self employed, good for you. I was not, and like you dad, at the mercy of what the company wanted to do. Do I feel for him? Sure I do....but in the end, my wife and I still needed a job to take care of our family.
I find it interesting that you would find me jealous.....when you are unemployed, you are jealous....of anyone who has a job! And when your fridge is empty, and the bill collector comes a calling, all you know is that you need to get a job.
Not meant to incite anyone imparticular, just my personal experience.

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by Ivan Dan
You people crack me up! Its SOOOO easy for you to talk shit when you are not involved in it. Let me just start out by saying that I'm self employed and pay for my own health benefits and YA it sucks. BUT why should you or I hold it against someone else because they don't have to pay for theirs? Are you jealous? IMO more power to em and sucks to be us for having to pay for ours.
I have mentioned on this thread before that my dad is a union member and works at the Albertson's DC in brea. My dad doesn't make shit and busts his ass 10 hours a day in a 32 degree freezer driving a stupid stand up forklift and works Sunday thru Wednesday. Up until about 3 or 4 years ago he worked nights from 4:30 pm till 3:30 am. Now they are trying to take away what little positives he does have? Not to mention he's been with the company/union for 27 years and only needs 3 more years to retire. Do you think he really wants to strike? Do you think he likes picketing for $250 per week? HELL NO!
Some of you people are so wrapped up in your way of life and don't stop to realize that it could be you just as easy in that position. And get a new job? After doing the same job for almost 30 years? Would YOU want to start all over at a new job?
This is the kind of treatment you should expect from a company after working for them for almost 30 years?
Take a minute and think about if the shoe was on the other foot and what YOU would be doing if it was you in their position.
I'm not trying to cause any problems here its just my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
Whoa Dan! I understand your sticking up for your Dad but why are YOU taking it out on US?! Your Dad's UNION is screwing him not us. Your Dad's UNION has him bent over - I think you should take your frustration out on them.
PS: I agree 100% with TT's post. And I commend you (TT) for standing up to them and defending/protecting your wife.

[CA Stu]

I cross 'em all the time.
It's totally absurd to me, I buy groceries from Albertson's, not Bob the checkout guy.
If Bob quit at Albertson's and went to work across town at Stater Brothers, should I go buy from them?
Of course not. I buy groceries from the store closest to my house.
How they run their store is their business.
I got problems, you got problems. Don't make your problems my problems.
Just a consumer,
CA Stu

[Havasu Cig]

My other 1/2 busted her ass in college and got a degree in accounting, did a year as an intern at a CPA firm,took a job with a computer company doing corporate accounting not making $hit, and has now moved on to another CPA firm.
She is still making less than by friend who stocks shelves at Ralphs, and does not recieve any benefits. My friend has a high school education and that is it. it is the only thing he has done since high school. He told me he was making $18.00 an hour before the strike, plus overtime.
She recently completed her CPA review course, and took the CPA test. this is all on her own time, for self improvement. She knows that eventually all this hard work will pay off.
I feel for some of the grocery workers, but you have to look at the rest of the work force and see how you compare. If you are making $18.00 an hour, plus benefits, plus overtime ect...for stocking shelves you are probably being compensated enough.

[Ivan Dan]

TT - I wasn't directing that response to you. I was talking about the people in here that say "I pay good money for my benefits and so should they" This is a horrible attitude to have. What about the people out there that make $500,000 or more per year? Just because someone gets something you or I don't doesn't mean we have the right to piss and moan about it, its life get over it.
MMD - I'm not taking it out on anyone. I'm just making a point that sometimes you need to put the shoe on the other foot and think about how it would be if it was you in that position. People on here seemed to be really leaning towards the grocery stores side and I wanted to voice my opinion for the other. I don't think anyone really likes the Union but do they really have a choice at this point?
IMO the Union has done a VERY piss poor job making the public know the whole story. The public knows what they see on the news or in the newspaper and the grocery chains have very publicly made their side known. If you read the Times or the Register there is an article in there everyday from the grocery chains saying how they are trying everything in their power to resolve this but the Union is being greedy and not working with them. The union doesn't do shit to help the workers but the workers that have been with the companies/unions for SO long don't have any choice but the stick with it.
Think about starting a new job after working somewhere for almost 30 years and basically being told you don't mean shit and we'll replace you with someone with no benefits and making $5 and hour less. Can you imagine how that would feel?
All I'm saying is atleast look at the whole picture before you start talking shit thats all.

[ROZ]

Originally posted by Tremor Therapy
So now she is a "scab" .....
I bet she has the longest checkout line http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/love/love10.gif ;) :D
Good for her Alan! Tell her to hang in there!
My coworker's son is doing the same thing....

[totenhosen]

Originally posted by Ivan Dan
TT
Think about starting a new job after working somewhere for almost 30 years and basically being told you don't mean shit and we'll replace you with someone with no benefits and making $5 and hour less. Can you imagine how that would feel?
All I'm saying is atleast look at the whole picture before you start talking shit thats all.
Sorry, I don't feel for them. My dad was a tool & die maker for over 20 years (A true skilled union job) when his whole industry got up and moved to Mexico. Needless to say he has taken numerous pay cuts. But he has learned to adapt to the situation as best as possible and is now doing sales at a fraction of what he use to earn.

[Tremor Therapy]

Dan,
If I came accross flaming you, it was not intended that way.....peace. I can completely relate to your dads situation. When I take my particular situation out of the equation, I think the folks in the union got screwed by their reps. They did not look closely enough at the economy, nor did the the reps do right by the rank and file.
I don't want to see anyone unemployed, and I definately do not want to see it happen this way. I know once they settle the strike, my wife is back out on the streets, and eventhough she is currently "employed" she continues to look for a job.
It is high time we all banded together, and took a look at where our economy is headed. Are we really interested in the Super Walmarts and Super Targets? The companies that drive wages and benefits to the basement? Or are we willing to do what is necessary to continue "our" way of life? Our current economic climate is creating a third world wage scale, and we need to do something about it! I commend West Covina (at least I think it was West Covina) for telling Super Walmart to get lost! They felt that too many small businesses and too many people would be put out by this low end business. This is the type of forward thinking that will lead us back down the road towards real recovery.

[CA Stu]

Originally posted by Havasu Cig
My other 1/2 busted her ass in college and got a degree in accounting, did a year as an intern at a CPA firm,took a job with a computer company doing corporate accounting not making $hit, and has now moved on to another CPA firm.
She is still making less than by friend who stocks shelves at Ralphs, and does not recieve any benefits. My friend has a high school education and that is it. it is the only thing he has done since high school. He told me he was making $18.00 an hour before the strike, plus overtime.
She recently completed her CPA review course, and took the CPA test. this is all on her own time, for self improvement. She knows that eventually all this hard work will pay off.
I feel for some of the grocery workers, but you have to look at the rest of the work force and see how you compare. If you are making $18.00 an hour, plus benefits, plus overtime ect...for stocking shelves you are probably being compensated enough.
And the people said "Amen!"
CA Stu <-Missus was an insurance underwriter for 5 yrs and not making $18/hr!!

[NorCal Gameshow]

Originally posted by totenhosen
It's easy to quit and find another job when you have a marketable skill.
that's why it would be called marketable :rolleyes: :D
I still think they shouldn't have voted to strike...work it out while you're getting a check :wink:

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by Ivan Dan
MMD - I'm not taking it out on anyone. I'm just making a point that sometimes you need to put the shoe on the other foot and think about how it would be if it was you in that position. People on here seemed to be really leaning towards the grocery stores side and I wanted to voice my opinion for the other. I don't think anyone really likes the Union but do they really have a choice at this point?
Funny you should mention that. I've said all along, from day one of this strike that when my company raises my healthcare contribution (which they've done), will the strikers come to where I work and support me?! Let's call it like it is here - they won't support me and I won't support them. Furthermore, this isn't about their situation and their decision to go on strike. It's about ALL of us here in the US and OUR collective situation. We do need to do something about the important issues.
For example: if you're busy blaming President Bush for the lack of job growth then let's look at why that's happening. It's happening because every new job that can be done for less money is being shipped overseas by COMPANIES. In order to increase the bottom line and return to shareholders, corporations are reducing costs, laying off US workers and hiring people overseas (next time you call customer service or support or want to make flight reservations with an airline, ask the person you're talking to where they're located! I've spoken to people in India, Ireland, and Canada).
What needs to be done is like what TT (Alan) mentioned - support companies that are doing it right. Do you really need to save a few bucks by shopping at Wal*mart or do you want to support local businesses that do most/all of their business here in the US? We as taxpaying citizens need to tell our government to do what they can to stop the flow of our jobs offshore. Perhaps a tax break should go to companies for every new job they add HERE in the US? I'm sure some sort of incentive can and should be put in place to help increase the employment opportunities here at home.
Originally posted by Ivan Dan
Think about starting a new job after working somewhere for almost 30 years and basically being told you don't mean shit and we'll replace you with someone with no benefits and making $5 and hour less. Can you imagine how that would feel?
I worked for a Japanese company for 10.5 years. I was a VP and the highest ranking non-Japanese in the entire corporation worldwide. I was laid off because the new Japanese manager, the son of the CEO in Japan, came here and decided to cut costs and since I was making more than the others, I was gone. After a decade of loyal service I was outof work. I and most everyone else knows what it's like to lose their job - it's commonplace. If you don't know what it's like to lose your job then you haven't experienced all that life has to "give" you. But most everyone does know what it's like to be unemployed and feel like you don't mean $hit to the company you worked so hard for.
I've been unemployed for months at a time over the past 6 years - changing jobs, finding new career opportunities only gets harder as you make more money and get older. Most folks will find this out too - as they get older and make more money, it's more likely they'll lose their job and be replaced by a much younger (AND MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE) employee. That's how companies save $ (replace an employee who they lay off with another employee - they can get away with it since the younger, less expensive employee has a different title so the older employee isn't technically being "replaced").
I've even started my own business when I was unemployed a few years ago. I did what I could and what I had to do to make ends meet and support myself and my family. Life isn't easy and I for one am glad I don't have a union telling me how my life is going to be. I've already got an employer that pretty much does that!

[BUSTI]

This strike was avoidable by both sides. Now that they are in it you would have thought that the Unions would have known who they were dealing with before they went out. Nowing the enemies resolve and capability is first and foremost in creating your battle plan.
Since I am pretty much anti union I have not honored the picket lines. Whenconfronted by picketers I told them that if they all promisd to come to my office on Monday and call all my customers asking to get me more money for the same job that i might consider not crossing their picket lines.
Ya right they said and I said no...Ya you are ****ing a right and i have made a point of shopping at Vons in fromt of the picketers that i spoke with or at the local Albertsons singing " it's Joe Albertson's super market and the money belongs to him".

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by BUSTI
i have made a point of shopping at Vons in fromt of the picketers that i spoke with or at the local Albertsons singing " it's Joe Albertson's super market and the money belongs to him".
I'd love to see and hear that - that's really funny!

[BUSTI]

Since I am old anf fraile I usually sing that song about Joe Albertson when one of my 6'1" 270lbs sons is with me. Wow do I get evil looks from the picketers!

[little rowe boat]

I belong to a union not the grocers, my wife and I will not cross the picket lines for that very reason. I have said it once and I'll say it again,if it wasn't for unions there would not be a middle class,only the rich and the poor. Some of you do not believe in unions and thats ok. I belong to a union that looks out for my rights and give me representation against unlawful discipline or termination. Believe me not all unions are just about wages and benefits. Sure it helps come negotiation time to have the backing and the access to our comparables,but there is much more to it than whats on the surface. We are talking about peoples livelihoods,the roof over their heads,the groceries on their tables,about to be lost to big business and corporate greed and the runaway cost of all of our insurance premiums. You may not belong to a union but if the day comes when you are terminated for some unknown reason,you may find yourself financially unable to defend yourself and your way of life.

[ROZ]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
You may not belong to a union but if the day comes when you are terminated for some unknown reason,you may find yourself financially unable to defend yourself and your way of life.
I think that most people work in this day and age thinking that this could happen and have thought of a rebound plan.... I know I have... It would be foolish not to....

[Wicky]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
I will honor the picket lines, until the strike is settled. Shop Stater Bros.
Unfortunately, I have suffered losses due to the strike. Aside from that, I have to pay for my own insurance. I have to work more than 8 hours a day generally 7 days a week, and never ever get ANY OVERTIME!!!!!!! I am TAXED to the HILT!!!!!
I deal with the grocery stores daily. If I had a job at one of the prior mentioned stores, I would be appreciative.
I know 100's of Grocery store employees and when times were very good, their children all had braces for their teeth, casts for their broken bones, fillings for their cavaties. You name it. If their was any kind of health issue it was covered.
Now that times are a little thin for some companies via new competition ie; Wallmart, where the average employee makes 35% less than at your average striking store. Insurance premiums have all increased. The grocery stores need to tighten their belts. I understand this as a business owner. Business is business and Unions are Unions. Sad that the employees on strike have to pay the price!!!!!! Unions=administration=$$$$.
Go to the stores with strikers and fear nothing.
Tell them their strike is ****ing up my boat allowance and to go back to work!!!
Wicky

[little rowe boat]

Originally posted by ROZ
I think that most people work in this day and age thinking that this could happen and have thought of a rebound plan.... I know I have... It would be foolish not to....
You are right many people do have back up plans,but many people who have put their blood, sweat and tears into a company for most of their lives,think that their longevity and loyalty to that company will be noticed and that there will not be a need for a back up plan.

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
You are right many people do have back up plans,but many people who have put their blood, sweat and tears into a company for most of their lives,think that their longevity and loyalty to that company will be noticed and that there will not be a need for a back up plan.
Not any more. If they do that they're in denial and in for a rude awakening when they lose their job.
You may be fortunate that you have a union to support you and negotiate for you. But then again that may not be the case. Unions can help but clearly as the supermarket strike demonstrates all is not necessarily rosy when a union is involved.
I think the time has passed for unions to have real value in the job market. They were very necessary once upon a time.

[CA Stu]

I'm not a fan of unions, but I'm also not a Walmart shopper. Both of those imstitutions tend to put pressure on the little guy , and that's kind of bully-like if you ask me.
I'm more of a fan of the independent business and I do my best to support them. That's the American Dream isn't it?
Yay for small independent businesses!
CA Stu

[You Te]

Hey Ivan Dan,
Who's fault is it that your dad has a shitty job? Am I suppose to feel sorry for him? Did I hold him back? The job was his choice Jr. If you feel so bad for your dad give him some extra coin.
Things are tough all over, I guess everyone should go on strike if things don't always go their way.
It's not a perfect life for anyone we all have battles.
I cross the lines and feel good about it.
You Te

[little rowe boat]

I think the time has passed for unions to have real value in the job market. They were very necessary once upon a time. [/B][/
QUOTE]
I could not disagree more. The union that I belong to has come to my rescue from tyrant supervisors who abuse their power . As long as there are employers who think they are above the law there will always be a need for unions.

[CA Stu]

As long as there are employers who think they are above the law there will always be a need for unions. [/B]
Or dark parking lots :cool: :mad: :cool: :mad:
CA Stu

[Wicky]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
I think the time has passed for unions to have real value in the job market. They were very necessary once upon a time. [/
QUOTE]
I could not disagree more. The union that I belong to has come to my rescue from tyrant supervisors who abuse their power . As long as there are employers who think they are above the law there will always be a need for unions. [/B]
I cant even comment on that statement. There's no place like home...there's no place like home....there's no place like home...
puke

[little rowe boat]

Originally posted by CA Stu
Or dark parking lots :cool: :mad: :cool: :mad:
CA Stu
I like it. :cool: :mad:

[71 challenger]

If anyone out there truly believes that the large corporations would pay you a decent wage from the goodness of there heart , you need to pull your head out of the sand. The CEO's pay themselves astronomical bonuses, have golden parachutes for retirement and it is all been built buy the blood sweat and tears of the worker. I know the corp that I work for would love to have us working 7 days a week and at a rate of 25 cents an hour.
Unions the guys who brought you weekends

[Dr. Eagle]

I've chimed in on the union stuff before, belonged to unions for 14 years and now I don't and wouldn't. So most of you know I don't care for them and believe that their time has long since past.
But the rumor on the street is as reported on KFI yesterday, Ralphs stores are posting Notice of Name Change for thier liquor licenses at the stores.
Scenario: Ralphs is a division of Krogers that was aquired some years ago. What if they change the name of the store (ie. do away with the separate Ralphs corporation). Does that affect the rights of the union members? My bet is that they change the name to Krogers, essentially close down Ralphs and therefore they do not have a legal relationship with the union and they will hire permanent replacements.
Just one possibility...

[Ivan Dan]

Originally posted by You Te
Hey Ivan Dan,
Who's fault is it that your dad has a shitty job? Am I suppose to feel sorry for him? Did I hold him back? The job was his choice Jr. If you feel so bad for your dad give him some extra coin.
Things are tough all over, I guess everyone should go on strike if things don't always go their way.
It's not a perfect life for anyone we all have battles.
I cross the lines and feel good about it.
You Te
You Te~
This was the most intelligent thing I've read so far. How long did this take you to put together? All of 20 seconds of thought?
Did I ask you to feel sorry for my dad? I don't think so! This is part of the problem with society today is ignorant assholes like you have absolutely no consideration for others well being. All you care about is how if affects you. Blows my mind how some people can be SO self-centered.
If you read my posts you will realize that all I was saying was take a minute to think about it and put yourself in their shoes before you go spouting off at the mouth.
www.DanKaatz.com

[Wicky]

Originally posted by Ivan Dan
You Te~
This was the most intelligent thing I've read so far. How long did this take you to put together? All of 20 seconds of thought?
Did I ask you to feel sorry for my dad? I don't think so! This is part of the problem with society today is ignorant assholes like you have absolutely no consideration for others well being. All you care about is how if affects you. Blows my mind how some people can be SO self-centered.
If you read my posts you will realize that all I was saying was take a minute to think about it and put yourself in their shoes before you go spouting off at the mouth.
www.DanKaatz.com
The truth hurts Ivan Dan, your statement brought a tear to my eye. Excellent statement UT!!!! It is the unions that are self centered to the same extent as the CEO's of these companies.
Besides those CEO's earned their right and worked their way up the ladders to be where they are now. The key to this statement is the word "Work" There is no job guarantee for the CEO's either. If they **** up they will be fired!!! If their numbers make the Stock Exchange happy they are rewarded.
Wicky

[Wicky]

Originally posted by 71 challenger
If anyone out there truly believes that the large corporations would pay you a decent wage from the goodness of there heart , you need to pull your head out of the sand. The CEO's pay themselves astronomical bonuses, have golden parachutes for retirement and it is all been built buy the blood sweat and tears of the worker. I know the corp that I work for would love to have us working 7 days a week and at a rate of 25 cents an hour.
Unions the guys who brought you weekends
Guaranteed CEOs wont pay you out of the goodness of their heart. They will pay you for a job well done though.
Will a doctor do surgery on you out of the goodness of their heart 71 Challenger?? I don't think so, because BUSINESS IS BUSINESS!!!! One of the biggest companies in the world has a CEO that worked his way up from the mail room. He is the man that has brought you what Viacom is today!! He went to night school because he WANTED to be CEO someday. If there is no want, there is no need. You obviosly, never had the need to be CEO!!! Then there are those that CHOOSE to give blood sweat and tears like myself doing my best to make a living!!
Wicky

[CA Stu]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
I've chimed in on the union stuff before, belonged to unions for 14 years and now I don't and wouldn't. So most of you know I don't care for them and believe that their time has long since past.
But the rumor on the street is as reported on KFI yesterday, Ralphs stores are posting Notice of Name Change for thier liquor licenses at the stores.
Scenario: Ralphs is a division of Krogers that was aquired some years ago. What if they change the name of the store (ie. do away with the separate Ralphs corporation). Does that affect the rights of the union members? My bet is that they change the name to Krogers, essentially close down Ralphs and therefore they do not have a legal relationship with the union and they will hire permanent replacements.
Just one possibility...
I wonder if anyone remembers Gemco?
Union workers making triple what everyone else was making shut them down, too.
If your company isn't making any money, why waste your time running it?
I reckon what you suggest may be happening (name change, axe all the workers) is in fact inevitable.
I'm sorry, but all the union members have only their union leaders to thank for their newfound lack of income.
Just thinking here: the union makes it's income off a percentage of the member's gross pay, right? If the grocery stores ding 70,000 members for a $25/ month healthcare premium, that's 1.75 MILLION DOLLARS PER MONTH that the union doesn't get to take their union dues out of!
Even 2 or 3% of $21 million a year, you're talking about a lot of money!
Disclaimer: all of the previous paragraph is speculation on my part, not an accountant ya know.
Cheers
CA Stu

[Krazy K]

Living here in Portland, I don't have to deal with it! But when I'm in SoCal visiting family, I do. You know what I do?? I ignore it! Pretend they don't exist! The reason I say this is because in the 5 1/2 years I've lived here, I've had it with homeless people and street kids coming up to me as I'm walking around town asking for spare change or a cigarette (I don't smoke anymore). The last straw was when I observed a guy standing near an ATM and asking if you had spare change after you pull your money out!!
Can you tell I get riled up with this??
How many of us have "SPARE" money???
If you don't want to cross the picket line, then don't. If it doesn't matter to you, then go for it.
Up here, I shop at Winco Foods. They are employee owned. What you spend at Ralph's, Vons, etc., I spend about 40% less on the exact same items. (No, they aren't expired) (You spend $100, I spend about $50-60)

[HighRoller]

You are right many people do have back up plans,but many people who have put their blood, sweat and tears into a company for most of their lives,think that their longevity and loyalty to that company will be noticed and that there will not be a need for a back up plan
That's nice, but what fantasy world does that occur in? As somebody put it perfectly a few posts back, "business is business". It doesn't matter if your boss is your best friend or Dad, one thing will stay the same. The purpose for a company's existence is NOT to give you a job for life. Get over yourself. The biggest thing I"ve heard from Union types on here is their entitlement mentality. They think that as long as they show up for work the employer owes them the world, and that the employer should cater to them instead of them having to quit. Well, WAKE UP! In a capitalist society the loudest way to speak is with your wallet or your feet. Don't like your job? Quit. If enough people quit, that company will either change or die. Don't want to put up with employers like that? Start your own business. Then YOU can see what it's like dealing with emplyees who think it's their God-given right to have you cater to their needs. IvanDan, I empathize with your Father's plight but one thing cannot be ignored. He did choose to stay in that line of work. Why is everyone crying about having to quit a job after 20 years? The company did not MAKE you stay there for that long, it was your choice. And choices have consequences. If you choose job security over advancement it will catch up with you someday. The American Dream was not founded on the ideal of working a dead-end job brainlessly for 20 years, and there is nothing noble about doing so. Those who choose to better themselves will prosper and those who choose to be content with the status-quo will stagnate. And before anyone says"that's easy for you to say", you should know this much. I have given up my career and business to go back to school and make a better life for my future wife and myself. No, this doesn't make me better than anyone, but I do hope it shows people that if you never stop wanting to better yourself you'll never depend on anyone else.

[HighRoller]

I hear you there, Krazy. Moving up here has been a severe culture shock for me. Driving downtown is like watching a feakshow in progress! Peeps handing out the "local weed daily" or whatever it is. Homeless shelters all over, panhandlers, people with tats and mohawks mixed in with people in business suits. And the top five books on the local bestseller list are from Al Franken, Michael Moore and Molly Ivins. This city has to look to the right to see Howard Dean!

[Krazy K]

Originally posted by HighRoller
I hear you there, Krazy. Moving up here has been a severe culture shock for me. Driving downtown is like watching a feakshow in progress! Peeps handing out the "local weed daily" or whatever it is. Homeless shelters all over, panhandlers, people with tats and mohawks mixed in with people in business suits. And the top five books on the local bestseller list are from Al Franken, Michael Moore and Molly Ivins. This city has to look to the right to see Howard Dean!
But I sure wouldn't give it up for SoCal again!!! Though I do miss the weather!!

[You Te]

Ivan Dan,
I can see you're quite intelligent, advertising your business and using vulgarity, is that the 2 for 1 deal, eat and defecate in the same place?
You sure don't seem to mind selling houses in an inflated market do you.
Should I feel sorry for you if the market drops and your income is cut in half.
Yes, I'm sure you know what it takes to run a business, you're a Real Estate Agent.
If you like wearing other peoples shoes so much I suggest you try on the business owners shoes.
You Te

[You Te]

riodog,
You seem to have lots of bottled up anger inside.
You Te

[MagicMtnDan]

Thanks Riodog, I understand everything a lot better after reading your pot-stirring rant that says not one of us knows what the strike is all about.
I'll tell you what it's about: a GREEDY, power-hungry, useless, blood-sucking, job-killing, manipulative, out-of-touch-with-reality, poverty-causing UNION.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Thanks Riodog, I understand everything a lot better after reading your pot-stirring rant that says not one of us knows what the strike is all about.
I'll tell you what it's about: a GREEDY, power-hungry, useless, blood-sucking, job-killing, manipulative, out-of-touch-with-reality, poverty-causing UNION.
Nicely Said MMD.
Glad SOMEONE on this board understands the issues, Lord knows us other morons couldn't possibly, Riodog!
I think Union people give the Union WAAAYYY too much credit for the standard of living in our modern times. Especially when unionized labor represents less than 20% of those with jobs nationwide. You can go on fooling yourself that the unions are relevant, no skin off of my back. But the fact is that they aren't.
Employers will pay good money for workers that have something of VALUE to offer. Marketable and in demand skill sets are highly compensated, other jobs where you can learn all you need to know in a 4 hour training session are not going to pay as well, and shouldn't. Unions have artificially inflated the compensation levels of many jobs and professions. They have protected those that Don't produce, are lazy or have other work ethic or disciplinary issues.

[HighRoller]

Rio, you make some good points. No, unions haven't outgrown their usefulness BUT...they have become politically driven and self-centered. They ask the employer to absorb higher benefit costs, but have the unions ever offered to contribute? What about reducing union dues to help cover the costs? When the unions show people that they are willing to make the same sacrifice as the employer they will gain credibility. When they give up their salary to walk a picket line they'll gain respect. Until then the union memberships will decrease like they have been for 20 years as people realize the sam thing. The only people who benefit nowadays from a union are the people running it.

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
I'll tell you what it's about: a GREEDY, power-hungry, useless, blood-sucking, job-killing, manipulative, out-of-touch-with-reality, poverty-causing UNION.
Uh...not really.
Stater Brothers (155 stoes- union shop) is very profitable...they recently reported record earnings (pre-strike).
The battle cry for the big-three retailers is that they have to compete with discounters such as Wal-Mart Supercenters, who employ non-union employees. The reality is that they could compete, if they we'ren't so debt-laden from acqusitions (anybody remember Boys, Market Basket, Alpha Beta, Lucky, Hughes, etc.?).
If you want those grocery jobs to be non-union, be ready for trailer parks, because Wal-Mart pay scales will lower the standard of living on any jobs they replace. You small business owners will be the first to feel it.
How much stock to you guys own in the big three? If they are able to cut labor costs...the dividends may rise slightly (pennies), so you may benefit.
If you don't own stock, you'll only lose by the retailers busting the union. Retail prices will not affected by a labor contract...they price off each other.

[You Te]

Hey Havasu Hangin,
Did you know Orange Couny real estate is at an all time high.
With all the unemployed super market workers on the picket line I have yet to see an increase in trailer parks.
The world will survive with non union workers in the market, I have not missed a meal yet.
Uncle Tony

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by You Te
Did you know Orange Couny real estate is at an all time high.
With all the unemployed super market workers on the picket line I have yet to see an increase in trailer parks.
Probably because the Wal Mart Supercenters are not in this market, yet. For a taste...go submit an application...see what they're paying.
Although...a trailer in OC will probably be $500K or so.
Originally posted by You Te
The world will survive with non union workers in the market, I have not missed a meal yet.
Yeah...you definately have not missed a meal.
The union-haters crack me up...90% of it seems to be jealousy that they don't have someone to negotiate compensation for them...so the sour grapes comes spewing out.
The other 10% is ignorance.
Now, I'm not pro-union, but I do know that in a free-market economy, there are checks and balances. A union is just another piece to a bigger puzzle in those checks and balances. Yes, they are self-serving...but so is EVERYONE, from the stockholders to the employees, and especially senior management.
I don't see anyone bitching about Burd's salary (non-union). He hasn't missed a meal, either (add $14M in a Safeway stock sale just prior to the strike).
In the big picture...a union (or a retailer) will survive based on it's ability to provide a good or service at a value.
If they can't...they won't. Whining about it won't change that.

[You Te]

Havasu Hangin,
If I wanted a raise in pay I would go to Wal-Mart, I'm happy with my minium wadge job. I like being low man on the totem pole, that way when things turn to shit I don't have far to fall.
And yes, I am self serving, everytime I buy fuel at the gas station.:eek:
You Te

[little rowe boat]

The only thing that will survive in a non-union market is the wealthy,say goodbye to the middle class.The rich will get richer and the poor poorer and the middle class just trying to survive.:mad: :mad:

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
The only thing that will survive in a non-union market is the wealthy,say goodbye to the middle class.The rich will get richer and the poor poorer and the middle class just trying to survive.:mad: :mad:
Another Urban Legend...
Keep on thinking your union is relevant. It isn't to me....

[71 challenger]

Wicky you wrote about the Ceo from Viacom who worked his way up thru the mail room, I am impressed for his hard work. How about all the CEO's who married the boss's daughter. Now thats climbing the ladder, or how about the son's that took over Dad's business and have always had the silver spoon and are driven by greed. One problem that I have seen is the CEO is so egotistical that they feel if it wasn't for them the company would fail. Of all the posts I must agree with Riodog. If we don't watch out we will be living in a two class society, The Rich and the Poor.
Unions the guys who brought you weekends

[C-2]

Originally posted by riodog
God this debate is getting real ****ing OLD. My favorite line- " DO YOUR HOMEWORK !" So far I'm convinced by reading some of the most assinine posts to date on this subject from both sides that NOT ONE OF YOU know what the **** the strike is about! Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know 'healthcare", whatever, that's only one small part of it! Why don't we all turn over a new leaf and adopt the idea that before we shoot off our mouths- we KNOW what we are talking about! God, I hate ****ing know nothing bullshitters!
GO AHEAD- FLAME AWAY- take a shot at me cuz it'll just show more of your stupidity! I don't put any creedence in anything any one has to say unless they know what they're talking about. WOULD any of you go down to the corner "quick lube" and get advice on your blower motor? You'd be a fool if you did!
Where am I coming from you ask yourself? Well, I already so stated that at one time I was in that union(30yrs ago), have been a teamster, been self employed most of my life. Owned a few companies,( bumped heads with the union), busted a few heads for a living. I've found that I prefer to speak for myself and don't need a 'union' to speak for me, but that's just me.
The unions HAVE NOT outlived their usefulness when we have companies such as the grocery companies, walmart, etc. Understand the big picture! When we're sending all of our skilled (good paying, middle class type jobs) over seas, our manufacturing, machine work, assembly work,etc., it has a 'trickle-down' effect on the economy as a whole. DAH, what that means to you 'executive-won't get my hands dirty- information trading assholes' that look down your nose at the working person is that the MIDDLE CLASS won't have the extra bucks to partake of your services! Think about it! Do you think that Walmart employese's make up much of the boating market? NOT ! How about the 7-11 worker ? The minimum wage employee can't afford the services or products of the plumber, electrican, the insurance salesman, the chiropractor, the boat repair shop, the boat manufacturing co., how about the contractor to do the tile work in their home? If most of us here on the boards didn't make decent money would we be able to buy Mikey's boat parts, SD013's fittings, Brians billet brackets, TPC'S heating and A/C units? What we're doing is destroying the middle class and in turn destroying ourselves in the search of a bargan. If it was just a question of competition in the marketplace where everyone had to play by the same rules that would be one thing however it's not and the American Middle Class is losing which in turn will effect every one of us! From the guy that cut's my lawn (he's a citizen-by the way), to the Doctor that gave your kid the cough medicine,(who will be losing business himself when the healthcare starts to dry up and he can't rape the ins companies for patients he doesn't have). It'll get all of us sooner or later.
Getting back to the grocery companies, they are trying to survive ! Nothing more! The products(for the most part) that they sell are American made, supporting American workers-farmers, laborers, packers, etc. There's no more room for cutting prices and still being able to pay the overhead. The products that walmart sells are made on foreign soil where the gov't allows it's workers to be exploited, thus the grocery companies won't survive. Now we're back to decimating the middle class- it's a no-win situation that our gov't has allowed to happen. No more lectures.
Just before you go running at the mouth, learn what the real issues are before you start raving about something that you know nothing about. So far the only thing anyone has mentioned is 'healthcare'. What about the two-tiered wages, no benefits for part-timers (most grocery store people are part-time), the extended time to make full wages, the right for outside suppliers to stock the shelves, etc.
Oh yeah, just for the record- I'm basically anti-union, anti-assholes running big companies, anti-democrat, sounds pretty negative doesn't it? I am for 'the people"-everone doing the best that they can for themselves without hurting anyone else in the process and I think we should all be supportive of that goal. I don't cross the picket line but I wouldn't think twice about decking someone that pushed a picket sign in my face or threatened me or mine.
Let the bullshit begin,
Riodog
I’m still waiting for the part where you enlighten all of us dumbasses.
Initially reading your post, I though it was going to be something good…like Burd was screwing the union president’s wife. :eek: :eek:
I think all of us have understood from day one that healthcare = money, which the strike is all about. ;)

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
The union-haters crack me up...90% of it seems to be jealousy that they don't have someone to negotiate compensation for them...so the sour grapes comes spewing out.
The other 10% is ignorance.
You union guys crack me up! Jealousy? Jealous of what?! A union that ruins their members' lives by getting them to go out on strike (and finding about the only way they could lose one of the very few completely safe-from-layoff jobs) while hundreds of thousands of workers around the country are losing their jobs?
Jealous of unions that I don't need to improve my place in life? I have a great job, one that pays me well and I and I alone got the job, negotiated my pay and benefits, and I do well enought to keep my job. A union would TAKE my money, drive up my employers' costs, reduce my employers' flexibility and ability to compete in the market which would detrimentally affect my career. A union would also pour thousands of dollars of union dues into politicians' coffers and I would have no say over how much they give or who they give it to!
And that, is another huge injustice in union life - they are significantly involved in political campaigns and together they contribute millions of dollars of their hardworking members' union dues to politicians who reward them for their monetary support by giving the corrupt unions strength to maintain their hold on tens of thousands of jobs.
You union guys can tell me (us) I'm jealous but I'm telling you to go look in the mirror and see whose wallet is being drained and whose life is being controlled and manipulated by a union that has you convinced you could not survive without them. I'm here to tell you that you can and you can stand a lot taller without that union monkey riding on your back with its hand in your wallet 8-12 hours a day!

[Wicky]

Originally posted by 71 challenger
Wicky you wrote about the Ceo from Viacom who worked his way up thru the mail room, I am impressed for his hard work. How about all the CEO's who married the boss's daughter. Now thats climbing the ladder, or how about the son's that took over Dad's business and have always had the silver spoon and are driven by greed. One problem that I have seen is the CEO is so egotistical that they feel if it wasn't for them the company would fail. Of all the posts I must agree with Riodog. If we don't watch out we will be living in a two class society, The Rich and the Poor.
Unions the guys who brought you weekends
I hope I'm on the rich side and you too 71 Challenger, but the only way I have a chance is to work my ass off and that includes WEEKENDS!!!

[Wicky]

I would also like to include the fact that during the first three years of business I took a total of only 15 days off. Yes, 5 days vacation during the first three years of running my OWN business. Everyone can own their own business. I am proof!!!!
But, you have to work WEEKENDS!!! You have no sick days. There are no time outs!!!
Gotta work,
Wicky

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
You union guys can tell me (us) I'm jealous but I'm telling you to go look in the mirror and see whose wallet is being drained...
I'm not a union guy...I'm management.
However, I am smart enough to see the power of collective bargaining.
I also am smart enough to see that, in most cases, the union dues paid on a yearly basis are only a fraction of what the employee has gotten in return for the representation by the union.
You guys are whining about what great benefits these people have? You admit that it is above the national standard for thier skill set...how did they get them?
I can do the math. If you can't...we'll put you in the 10% bracket.

[HCS]

Figure it out. Competition is going to bring union people down to
reality. Pay your own way like the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Welcome to life in the big city.
I hate ****in unions!:mad:
That's my attitude. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/gives.gif

[JetBoatRich]

I feel bad for the people on the line. they are always out there. It gets cold out here and they are always there. The union said someone should be:mad: :mad:

[HighRoller]

Everyone can own their own business. I am proof!!!! But, you have to work WEEKENDS!!! You have no sick days. There are no time outs
There are no bosses riding your ass. There are no greedy union bosses in your pocket. There are no incompetent dickheads getting promoted to be your boss. There is nobody else profiting from your hard work and initiative! How can you complain about that?

[HCS]

Originally posted by JetBoatRich
I feel bad for the people on the line. they are always out there. It gets cold out here and they are always there. The union said someone should be:mad: :mad:
:D :D :D :D :D
Get a job!

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by HARDCORE-SKI
Pay your own way like the rest of us!!!!!!
90%

[HCS]

Grocery clerks or whatever. Your no different than people that
work at the mall. So you stock shelves and ring people up.
Woop de do!! Boy life must be ruff.:rolleyes:
Why don't you try working for a living.

[HighRoller]

And one other thing I can't ignore. Everyone is cracking Wal-Mart as the killer of small business. Have any of you people read Sam Walton's story? He started out as a small business man. He did it better, worked harder and was more dedicated to his cause and he prevailed! He brought customer satisfaction to new highs and prices to new lows simultaneously. Eventually somebody will come around and eat Wal-Mart's lunch just like they did to K-mart. It's all cyclical. People will get sick of Wal-Mart's shiznit and go somewhere else. Read the history books. People said the same thing about Sears and their catalog sales. Said the catalog thing would be "the death of retail stores as we know them". Sears is now on the ropes so wake up. Wal-Mart will not take over the world and put everybody out of business. People are smarter than that.

[boatnam2]

well as i set here on my 2nd night of 4 12 hour shifts, reading this im starting to wonder what he **** am i doing wrong.im union and work 2 to 3 weekends every month.i could be a business owner.

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by JetBoatRich
I feel bad for the people on the line. they are always out there. It gets cold out here and they are always there. The union said someone should be:mad: :mad:
You're scaring me Rich! I feel bad for people who get FIRED! I don't feel bad for people who are relatively unskilled and are taken advantage of by their union, so they're on strike for months instead of working! They CHOSE to walk out.
I'd feel bad for them if they were trying to find another job and couldn't. I'd rather feel bad for you because you haven't yet taken RD's post ***** crown. :D

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by riodog
Havasu Hangin, we've had these discussions before and as always You're correct, and are not as abrasive as I.
Sorry...I'll have to work on that.
Originally posted by HARDCORE-SKI
Why don't you try working for a living.
90%.
Tell me something...if you were in thier shoes (according to you- great benefits, good pay, cushy job), with thier skillset, wouldn't you stay right where you are?
Let it go man, jealousy is such an ugly emotion.
Originally posted by HighRoller
...Everyone is cracking Wal-Mart as the killer of small business. Have any of you people read Sam Walton's story? He started out as a small business man. He did it better, worked harder and was more dedicated to his cause and he prevailed! He brought customer satisfaction to new highs and prices to new lows simultaneously.
Since you know so much about Wal-Mart...I guess I don't have to tell you:
1. The Waltons have not run the company for some time.
2. Wal-Mart is consistantly defending itself againts Robinson-Patman lawsuits.
3. Wal Mart does not source it's products exclusively from the US (as the Waltons envisioned)
But I guess you already knew that...

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by riodog
That had much more effect than the grocery clerks and talk about benefits and being overpaid.
Just something to think about! Rio
Riopuppy...I have this theory.
I think people are so lazy, that try to justify crossing a picket line because it will inconvenience them to not cross it.
Who had to cross the Longshoremen's lines?
Who crossed the air traffic controllers lines in the 80's?
Comedy...pure comedy.

[HighRoller]

I never said Wal-Mart was perfect. And yes, I know Wal-Mart has been out of the family for a while. But obviously they are still doing something right, aren't they? If their cheap products were falling apart they would go broke. Wal-Mart gives you VALUE for your money. And you have the choice to not shop there or not work there if you wish.Obviously if working for Wal-Mart was so horrible there would be nobody on duty there right?
RioDog, you neglected to tell everyone the most important fact about Doctors,firemen and cops in regards to their unions. Nobody who provides an emergency service on the government payroll can strike.They can call in sick or quit but no striking.I believe this one factor has lead to fire department jobs being the best paying jobs with the most benefits. The county knows they will get a return on their investment without people walking out and the union knows they can count on the county to come through.
Tell me something...if you were in thier shoes (according to you- great benefits, good pay, cushy job), with thier skillset, wouldn't you stay right where you are?
EXACTLY!The strikers are like kids getting an allowance from a rich parent. They are scared of losing their protected position and actually having to compete with people who actually have skills, because their skill set earns them $10/hr in the real world.Most of these people are so out of touch that they think they deserve the inflated wage they get.

[mbrown2]

Originally posted by riodog
I think that with every dollar that we send out of our country we're hurting ourselves. The dollars that go out of our country are being spent by people in other countries to keep their economy healthy and not coming back, and our workforce is sitting around idle.
Very good quote.....The value we get from Walmart, we are hurting ourselves in the long run...the customer service and call center work we send to developing nations to increase the bottom line will have negative impacts on the economy's at home...

[C-2]

Originally posted by riodog
DAH, C-2 can't YOU read? Some of the other issues were stated in my post. You, without a doubt, get the award for being the dumbest moron on the forums! Not for being 'uninformed' about the issues of which we speak but by being so totally stupid and opening your mouth to let everyone here know just how sadly you're lacking in basic READING SKILLS!
C-2, it's nothing to be ashamed of to admit that you don't know something( as I have admitted many times- my lack of puter skills) but for someone to SHOUT TO THE WORLD-HEY, MY NAME IS C-2 AND I CAN'T READ AND UNDERSTAND, BUT I'M GONNA GET MY 2-CENTS IN ANYWAY AND LET EVERYONE KNOW HOW ****IN DUMB I AM ! Sheesh, unless you are able to understand the written word-you shouldn't be on the keyboard making an ass out of yourself.
MMD, You got one part of the equation correct, the part about GREED. It is greed, on the part of both the unions and the companies. The unions want power=control of the work force. The companies want money(in the case of the grocery chains- ego=marketshare).
Highroller, you hit upon one of my biggest complaints about unions. They are in it to sustain themselves. I honestly do not believe that neither the company nor the union gives a rat's ass about the members or employees.
Havasu Hangin, we've had these discussions before and as always You're correct, and are not as abrasive as I.
YOU TE, try staying on topic. The price of Orange County property is not dependant on a few grocery clerks on strike. If you should miss a meal, call me and I'll buy you a Big Mac.
Outside of C-2, I haven't meant to assault the intelligence of anyone, merely to point out the fact that 99% of you are uninformed about what the strike entails. This is the fault of the unions for UNDERESTIMATING the ability to understand by the general population. They chose to focus on the healthcare issue as that is an issue that effect's each of us. Neither the unions nor the companies have been forethcoming with what is going on, and both are just trying to ride the wave of sympathy. For what this has cost the stores, it wouldn't suprise me a bit if when all is said and done-"burd" is history as he appears to be taking the spokes person role for the stores. If I were the union members I'd start thinking about execut- replacing union leaders with people that care about the members. This strike has been a joke from the get-go. Due to poor tactics on the part of the union, I believe that the union has not only "broken itself" but also put at least 1/4 of it's members out of a job- permanately! The 3 grocery companies won't get back the percentage of 'market share' that they enjoyed before this episode due to the fact that people have been forced to find other avenues of procuring their groceries and basically people are creatures of habit and are getting comfortable with where they shop now.
Just like any DIVORCE this was brought on by poor or nonexistant communication, with the public, with the workers, and with the two sides involved.
C-2, and those of you in Rio Linda, that means they weren't talking to each other!
Rio aka Michael
just reading the latest posts before I hit the button, the posts about having weekends cracks me up. Everytime I try to invite some who works for the stores to the river, they have to work! lol Go ask Havasu Doug if you don't believe me, this includes boxboy to mgemnt.
Hey Rio,
Poking fun at the thread, thus the joke. Geesh :rolleyes:

[mickeyfinn]

As I sit here and read these posts, I am truly amazed. It is difficult for me to imagine that people on this site are actually defending unions in this day and age. It has all been said here before and it continues to amaze me. Arguing with people who are pro-union is like arguing with a brick wall. Give up trying to convince them to see the errors in their thinking. They gave up the ability to think negotiate or develop opinions on their own a long time ago. Why do you think they continue to pay the unions? They can no-longer do these things without someone else to think and speak for them. Talk to anyone who has spent a lot of time studying different economies, unions once had a time and place, but no more. It all boils down to 2 words:
UNIONS SUCK.....THE BLOOD FROM OUR ECONOMY

[HighRoller]

MBrown2, I think you're a cool dude and all, but I disagree. I'm familiar with the call center and customer no-service jobs being outsourced to India, and there's a huge backlash right now against it. Dell Computer was one of the first to outsource their customer service and they are in the process of re-routing calls to the U.S. My parents and I refuse to speak with Indian people on the phone because we can't understand what they are saying. And if they cannot transfer us to a human in the states, we tell them we are canceling our service. Trust me, this gets their attention. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The biggest statement you can make is with your feet and your wallet. You don't like a company's operating policies? Walk somewhere else and spend your money there.
Oh, and as far as the people who say the middle class will "disappear", DREAM ON! There will ALWAYS be educated underacheivers and unskilled overacheivers who will make up the middle class. While you're cracking on the "rich" getting richer, let me drop a stat on you. 88% of the miilionaires in this country have made less than $80,000/yr their whole life. It's not how much you make, it's how much you spend. A family who makes $40,000/yr will make over 2 million in a lifetime, yet most of them couldn't write a check for 1,000 dollars right now. That's not poverty, it's stupidity.

[Flying Tiger]

I went to the dentist last week and inspite of having Delta Dental premiere (their best coverage), two simple onlays still cost me $800 from a dentist that agrees to follow Deltas price guidelines.
I have excellent medical insurance, and my Vasectomy is still going to be $150.
I mention this because medical costs are part of the strike issue, and I have to pay them.
The local non union markets prices have sky rocketed. Trader Joes no exception.
I can't get everything I need at Costco, who seems to have run their prices up too.
I'm short on groceries all the time because it's hard now to really find what ya need, or pay double in some cases.
I'm honoring the picket lines,, but,, it's really becoming an expensive hassle that is starting to appear for nothing.

[Wicky]

Originally posted by HighRoller
There are no bosses riding your ass. There are no greedy union bosses in your pocket. There are no incompetent dickheads getting promoted to be your boss. There is nobody else profiting from your hard work and initiative! How can you complain about that?
As far as people riding my ass, I have Store Directors to deal with DMs to deal with, and buyers to deal with. If I do a good job nobody rides my ass. They are my customer. I have to do everything to keep them my customer. I know what happens if some people don't have anyone riding there ass. They are SLACKERS!!
Generally if there are incompetent dickheads that I have to deal with, time will take care of them and they will eventually sink their own ship.
Let's not forget that I deal with the fire dept, the FDA, the local health dept and a few other govt agencies.
My only complaint though, is that the IRS clearly profits from my hard work. I get nailed with a 15% self employment tax on top of all other taxes. Nearly 55% of every dollar I generate is given to Uncle Sam. Now that really sucks!!! I'm voting Libertarian next time around. I'm sick and tired of carreer politicians.

[KrazyKa]

Originally posted by Wicky
My only complaint is that the IRS clearly profits from my hard work. I get nailed with a 15% self employment tax on top of all other taxes.
Pssssst.....everyone does. W-2 employees only directly contribute 7.5%, while the employer matches that. While it may not directly come out of thier pocket - it does figure into the overall compensation package.

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by mickeyfinn
UNIONS SUCK.....THE BLOOD FROM OUR ECONOMY
That's a 10% statement.
I'm not a union advocate...but I am also smart enough not to throw a blanket statement over the entire labor force.
That's about as smart as saying..."all middle management sucks in all companies."
There are all kinds of unions...big and small...organized and disorganized. Anyone who has ever shared a common (work-related) belief with a co-worker has formed a union of two. Sure you didn't elect a spokesperson or pay dues, but unions are a part of the labor force (and human nature)- like it or not.
Regarding the UFCW stike...there is a blackout on the negotiations...so no one really knows what the stumbling blocks are. Speculation to justify why you cross a picket line is nothing more than self-reinforcement.
Those people on the lines (in most cases) are just trying to better their lives- just like we all do...union or not.

[Wicky]

Originally posted by KrazyKa
Pssssst.....everyone does. W-2 employees only directly contribute 7.5%, while the employer matches that. While it may not directly come out of thier pocket - it does figure into the overall compensation package.
yes, payroll taxes suck too!!!!

[Wicky]

Originally posted by Wicky
yes, payroll taxes suck too!!!!
Lets not forget 11% for FICA and Social security-what a joke!!!

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Wicky
Lets not forget 11% for FICA and Social security-what a joke!!!
Wicky...have you started stockpiling weapons yet?

[Wicky]

Not yet HH. I do know many up here that have though. Idaho, btw, is a right to work state. No unions up here with any power!!!:D

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Wicky
I do know many up here that have though.
Should you change your profile location to "Sushi Ridge"? http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/1/happy06.gif

[Wicky]

Ha!! How about a Ruby Roll with that sake??

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Wicky
Ha!! How about a Ruby Roll with that sake??
Capturing the "local flavor"...you are a marketing genious!

[NorCal Gameshow]

Originally posted by Wicky
Not yet HH. I do know many up here that have though. Idaho, btw, is a right to work state. No unions up here with any power!!!:D
what's the average pay?
i'm not union, but i'm sure I wouldn't be making my wage if my company didn't supply companies that were union..it's the old pay 'em or they'll go across the street...
that goes for many other industries as well....
to the people here that sell...how much selling could you do if your customers made 8-10 dollars an hour...
i guess walmart workers make 6-12 dollars an hour
grocery clerks 11-18 $$per hour a little more buying power...
if you think grocery prices would get cut much if the grocery wages were cut.... your dreamin'

[THOR]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Those people on the lines (in most cases) are just trying to better their lives- just like we all do...union or not.
That is what I am thinking too.
THOR (secretly likes unions):D

[You Te]

Riodog,
You are correct, you are abrasive. Do you know a guy named Arizona Hot Boater? This guy was smarter than everyone, and he was, cause he said so. I must admit, you've got me laughing pretty hard. Carry on.
As I drove by a Vons yesterday I noticed about 10 picketers in front of the entrance all lined up in one row, it sure remined me of a bunch of pigeons on a high wire.:eek: For some reason I believe these pigeons are about to be plucked.
Wicky,
Get back to work, and stop wasting time. I love my minium wadge job, god bless the bottom feeders.:D
You Te

[You Te]

Here is a photo of a day in the life of the striking union workers.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Riopuppy...I have this theory.
I think people are so lazy, that try to justify crossing a picket line because it will inconvenience them to not cross it.
Who had to cross the Longshoremen's lines?
Who crossed the air traffic controllers lines in the 80's?
Comedy...pure comedy.
I too have a theory
People are so lazy they fall into the safe zone created by the unions presence. They are lulled be great pay for low skilled work, great benefits, 40 hour week, the fact that screw offs are shielded from discipline, in short...they are in the hammock, and they don't want to face reality.
I think the strikers of at least one of the chains will not be returning to work ever, at least not to their old jobs, and maybe all three. Unfortunate to be so principled that you end up in the unemployment line.

[Jbb]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
That's a 10% statement.
I'm not a union advocate...but I am also smart enough not to throw a blanket statement over the entire labor force.
That's about as smart as saying..."all middle management sucks in all companies."
There are all kinds of unions...big and small...organized and disorganized. Anyone who has ever shared a common (work-related) belief with a co-worker has formed a union of two. Sure you didn't elect a spokesperson or pay dues, but unions are a part of the labor force (and human nature)- like it or not.
Regarding the UFCW stike...there is a blackout on the negotiations...so no one really knows what the stumbling blocks are. Speculation to justify why you cross a picket line is nothing more than self-reinforcement.
Those people on the lines (in most cases) are just trying to better their lives- just like we all do...union or not.
all middle management sucks in all companies."
:D :D :D :D

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
People are so lazy they fall into the safe zone created by the unions presence.
You now fall into the 90% category.
Are you throwing a blanket over the entire workforce..."everyone in a union is lazy"? That's a 10% category statement. THere are some hard-workin' mo-fos out there.
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
They are lulled be great pay for low skilled work, great benefits, 40 hour week, the fact that screw offs are shielded from discipline, in short...they are in the hammock, and they don't want to face reality.
By being in a union, they are negotiating their own reality....what does it matter?
I used to manage a plant that had a union employee whose job it was to watch the line and make sure the caps were on right. It was pretty funny. Did I loath him for having a cake job? Nope...he may not have been the highest skilled guy...but he was skilled enough to vote in the union elections.
Don't envy those who who try to get whatever they can however they can. I myself choose hard work...but I don't pretend to preach to those who take a different path (or use a union to negotiate compensation and working conditions).

[You Te]

Ok guy's I just got the word that 1/2 of the launch ramps in Havasu will be union operated. If you want to launch in it will be $18.50 per launch.
The non union ramps will be charging $8.00 per launch.
Can any of you guess which ramp will get full first?
Havasu Hangin,
Since you don't seem to have a problem with the union, if you every find yourself in need of some remodel work at you residence
I suggest you get bids from non union and union contractors, do you have any idea which contractor will give you the best value?
You Te

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by You Te
Can any of you guess which ramp will get full first?
Exactly. Uncle Tony...you're smarter than I thought.
The free-market economy will dictate who survives. Like I said in an earlier post, Stater Brothers pays it's employees the same compensation, yet doesn't have a problem with the union or it's demands. They are making money hand over fist, and still able to charge customers (GP%) less than Vons, Ralphs or Albertsons.
Mismanagement hurts everyone...union or not.
So I guess if there's a union launch ramp that will charge the same (or less) as non-union...what does it matter? Higher union wages at the union launch ramp just raised the local economy.
Tough to grasp, I know.

[THOR]

Well, for the extra $10 I'll take the union ramp. It will undoubtedly be safer. Just like the union job sites.
Originally posted by You Te
Ok guy's I just got the word that 1/2 of the launch ramps in Havasu will be union operated. If you want to launch in it will be $18.50 per launch.
The non union ramps will be charging $8.00 per launch.
Can any of you guess which ramp will get full first?
Havasu Hangin,
Since you don't seem to have a problem with the union, if you every find yourself in need of some remodel work at you residence
I suggest you get bids from non union and union contractors, do you have any idea which contractor will give you the best value?
You Te :D

[THOR]

A safe work zone is not created by a union PRESENCE, it is created by the training that union workers get. There are all different kinds of unions that require the workers to pass exams to be qualified to perform a certain level of work. Non union workers have no such requirements.
Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
You now fall into the 90% category.
Are you throwing a blanket over the entire workforce..."everyone in a union is lazy"? That's a 10% category statement. THere are some hard-workin' mo-fos out there.
By being in a union, they are negotiating their own reality....what does it matter?
I used to manage a plant that had a union employee whose job it was to watch the line and make sure the caps were on right. It was pretty funny. Did I loath him for having a cake job? Nope...he may not have been the highest skilled guy...but he was skilled enough to vote in the union elections.
Don't envy those who who try to get whatever they can however they can. I myself choose hard work...but I don't pretend to preach to those who take a different path (or use a union to negotiate compensation and working conditions).

[little rowe boat]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Another Urban Legend...
Keep on thinking your union is relevant. It isn't to me....
But it is to me and thats all that matters:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[mickeyfinn]

ECONOMICS 101
OK. For starters unions were not originally about wages, they were created to provide safe workplaces for the employees. I have worked in various fields that involve their own amount of danger and can say that there are now regulations covering safety that have essentially rendered that aspect of unions unneeded.
Any decent business strives to make the most profit possible. This may be by paying subpar wages for labor or buying sub par parts to put together whatever widget they are selling. Good businesses recognize the fact that the single most important asset a company has is its employees and strive to compensate those people with fair wages that will prevent the employees from wanting to go else where for employment.
Every business also has to find the line between gouging prices and making large profits on few sales or dropping prices in the favor of volume in order to increase sales. Unless a company has a monopoly the failure to recognize any of these is going to cost the company money. Failure to adequately compensate employees = high turnover rates and substandard labor.
Failure to be price competitive = people buy from someone else.
The rules are pretty simple. Easy to understand.
Now throw the union in the middle
Increase wages (regardless of profitability), Increase benefits (regardless of profitability), Hire more people in order to compartmentalize labor functions (regardless of effect on profitability) and you have a recipe which is going to insure the company is in a financial struggle.
Unions once had a reason for being but no more. All they do now is exactly what has been posted here already as far as rewarding substandard performance and failing to reward above par performance. Unions seem to have a habit of forcing a business owner or owners to see less and less profit forcing the owner(s) to evaluate whether the costs of doing business makes it more profitable to bank the cash and take the interest.
UNIONS-go figger. Looks like in this day and age people would have learned that it is much better to think and speak for yourself.

[THOR]

Nice rationale. Why dont you just call union workers stupid and tell them they cant speak for themselves?

[C-2]

Originally posted by riodog
if I've made anyone CRY, I apologize- except for C-2, the reading lesson starts at 15:00 hrs today be here and bring the silvers! If I can get your attention, make you stop and think, impart something useful to you, and leave you with a smile then I've accomplished something.
Riodog
Alright, after having a hard time with a few street names I was finally able to grab some silvers. Now if I can find the 15 on the clock, I’ll be over for my remedial reading lessons.
You made me cry but I’m over it :cry: :cry: :cry:
:D :D :D

[Sherpa]

I think most have the image of a time-clock stamping flunky who's
main concern is making sure he/she get's their break on time.
this is 2004 for pete's sake. Sure, maybe 20+ years ago the
checkers required some technical input/skills for their jobs.
Now, with scanners, automatic/computerized cash registers,
even change machines, all they have to do is swipe something
across a sheet of glass, make 30 seconds of small talk, and
hand back change..... Hell, nowadays I'd bet that 80% of the
population even uses an ATM card.... they don't even need to
make change anymore....
Unions are going the way of the dodo bird.......
And to think, it all started over 50 bucks in increased medical
costs-? idiots. I pay about 175 per 2wk pay period for medical..
--Sherpa

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
You now fall into the 90% category.
Are you throwing a blanket over the entire workforce..."everyone in a union is lazy"? That's a 10% category statement. THere are some hard-workin' mo-fos out there.
By being in a union, they are negotiating their own reality....what does it matter?
I used to manage a plant that had a union employee whose job it was to watch the line and make sure the caps were on right. It was pretty funny. Did I loath him for having a cake job? Nope...he may not have been the highest skilled guy...but he was skilled enough to vote in the union elections.
Don't envy those who who try to get whatever they can however they can. I myself choose hard work...but I don't pretend to preach to those who take a different path (or use a union to negotiate compensation and working conditions).
That deserves a real WHATEVER HH...
Read this and hear it loud and clear....
I DO NOT ENVY ANY UNION WORKER, PERIOD!!!!
Like I have said time and again. You give them too much credit. I haven't bought the bullshit.
I agree that many work hard, but others hardly work. And they get paid just the same and are protected from that evil employer by the GOOD union. Most hard workers RESENT that fact... I know it bugged the HELL out of me when I was in the union.
So HH believe whatever you want... I have been on both sides of the union world and will never be in one again. And further if I owned a business and the workers organized, I'd shut it down in a heartbeat.

[mickeyfinn]

Originally posted by THOR
Nice rationale. Why dont you just call union workers stupid and tell them they cant speak for themselves?
I thought I did that.:D :D

[JetBoatRich]

I read in today's paper, 10% of the strikers have went back to work some crossing the lines. A lot of them are suffering money issues and not able to provide the family.
We pay for our Benefits, to much:o they neeo get back to the table and settle, easy said then done. Hate to see these families in the middle:mad:

[Kilrtoy]

Ok guy's I just got the word that 1/2 of the launch ramps in Havasu will be union operated. If you want to launch in it will be $18.50 per launch. The non union ramps will be charging $8.00 per launch. Can any of you guess which ramp will get full first?
Ill pay the 18:50 so I can get in the water while the rest of you wait in those long ass lines.......
And I will pull out first also.......

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Ok guy's I just got the word that 1/2 of the launch ramps in Havasu will be union operated. If you want to launch in it will be $18.50 per launch. The non union ramps will be charging $8.00 per launch. Can any of you guess which ramp will get full first?
Ill pay the 18:50 so I can get in the water while the rest of you wait in those long ass lines.......
And I will pull out first also.......
Getting on the water faster - That's the first benefit that I can remember getting because of a union. See the unions causing prices to go up can have some value for the rest of us. :confused: :) Now all I need is to find another example of that dynamic at work
:D

[THOR]

Originally posted by mickeyfinn
I thought I did that.:D :D
You did I guess. It is a lot easier to say behind a keyboard than on a union job site.

[Havasu Cig]

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Ok guy's I just got the word that 1/2 of the launch ramps in Havasu will be union operated. If you want to launch in it will be $18.50 per launch. The non union ramps will be charging $8.00 per launch. Can any of you guess which ramp will get full first?
Ill pay the 18:50 so I can get in the water while the rest of you wait in those long ass lines.......
And I will pull out first also.......
I was thinking the same thing:D :D

[OGShocker]

Originally posted by THOR
You did I guess. It is a lot easier to say behind a keyboard than on a union job site.
Are you now saying if I speak my mind at a "union job site" I could be in danger? Nice to see my right to free speech applies everywhere in this nation:rolleyes:
I think most Union folks should look at the Pennsylvania Steel Industry from 1970 to today as a case study. Then tell me how ALL unions help there industries and members.

[little rowe boat]

I have never made this personal, all I have done is defend my views to people on these boards who obviously don't agree with my stance.Now some of you are making this personal,none of you know me well enough or for that fact at all, to call me stupid or lazy,because I belong to a union that looks out for my rights when they need to be defended against tyrannical a supervisor. When you start generalizing people into one category like MF. did you put yourself in line with the rest of the worlds biggots. If you do not agree with me thats fine but when you start insulting me you make it personal.I wont threaten anyone,because a threat from behind a computer screen is meaningless.I'll wait to do that in person.:mad: :mad: :mad:

[bear down]

Originally posted by chub
MMD look at Bear Downs avatar. It's all in good fun with the Packers/Bears thing. I just get the feeling he doesn't like either the Packers or unions and I'm into both. The thing I love about America the most is that you might not agree with what I like or believe in but we ain't gonna go killing each other over it. Shit if I ever meet Bear Down I 'd buy him a frosty one in a heartbeat.
Hey Chub,
What's going on Mr. Fudgepacker!!! J/K :D :D :D
You're right about the my feelings about the Packers and I just don't like the union that we are dealing with, I It's all good in the rivalry and I'll take that beer if we ever meet up. I just don't like the Packers with Favre as the QB.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/328pukerpapergb.gif
“If you’re a Packer fan, don’t be discouraged because some of the greatest Christians in the world were first atheists.”

[THOR]

Originally posted by OGShocker
Are you now saying if I speak my mind at a "union job site" I could be in danger? Nice to see my right to free speech applies everywhere in this nation:rolleyes:
I think most Union folks should look at the Pennsylvania Steel Industry from 1970 to today as a case study. Then tell me how ALL unions help there industries and members.
That is not what I said at all. I was merely implying that people say a lot bolder things while sitting behind their keyboards.

[THOR]

I remember that last union thread ended in a lot of personal insults and a bunch of he-said she-said bullshit. People that work as non-union employees believe they are superior as do the folks that are union employees. There is nothing wrong with pride. Just dont insult the integrity of each others work without seeing it.

[HighRoller]

Well, I've seen a lot of union types impune the work of non-union jobs just because the "scabs" don't have a supervisor up their ass every two minutes and don't work at a snail's pace. Yes, a lot of union workers are very skilled but they are also very very expensive. You can get the best non-union worker for less than an average union guy and the work will be superior and completed faster. No, OSHA will not be inspecting the cups at the water bucket to protect us from dirt but I think we'll live. The other point I wanted to make about unions is that I keep hearing everyone talk about all the things unions have done for us. Yes, they have BUT that was when unions were made up by workers for workers. Today's unions are professional organizations make their living unionizing. As such they cannot impartially judge events or make decisions because their interests are often at odds with what is best for the workers. The UPS strike wasn't about workers losing anything, they were about to get the best health package in the history of the company. But the union would have gotten a smaller cut of the co-op, so they spiked the deal and sent everyone out on strike. This is not a union "looking out for" the workers. And a union who endangers a person's way of life over a $50 co-pay is not either.

[OGShocker]

Originally posted by THOR
That is not what I said at all. I was merely implying that people say a lot bolder things while sitting behind their keyboards.
Thank you for making your point clear.

[Wicky]

Originally posted by Havasu Cig
I was thinking the same thing:D :D
Dream on!!!! As Aerosmith once stated!!!!!

[Wicky]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
I have never made this personal, all I have done is defend my views to people on these boards who obviously don't agree with my stance.Now some of you are making this personal,none of you know me well enough or for that fact at all, to call me stupid or lazy,because I belong to a union that looks out for my rights when they need to be defended against tyrannical a supervisor. When you start generalizing people into one category like MF. did you put yourself in line with the rest of the worlds biggots. If you do not agree with me thats fine but when you start insulting me you make it personal.I wont threaten anyone,because a threat from behind a computer screen is meaningless.I'll wait to do that in person.:mad: :mad: :mad:
Obviously this is what you have inffered. Your response is spoken from guilt or I am just buzzed. Please correct me at the
BBSP (a non union event)

[Wicky]

Originally posted by HighRoller
Well, I've seen a lot of union types impune the work of non-union jobs just because the "scabs" don't have a supervisor up their ass every two minutes and don't work at a snail's pace. Yes, a lot of union workers are very skilled but they are also very very expensive. You can get the best non-union worker for less than an average union guy and the work will be superior and completed faster. No, OSHA will not be inspecting the cups at the water bucket to protect us from dirt but I think we'll live. The other point I wanted to make about unions is that I keep hearing everyone talk about all the things unions have done for us. Yes, they have BUT that was when unions were made up by workers for workers. Today's unions are professional organizations make their living unionizing. As such they cannot impartially judge events or make decisions because their interests are often at odds with what is best for the workers. The UPS strike wasn't about workers losing anything, they were about to get the best health package in the history of the company. But the union would have gotten a smaller cut of the co-op, so they spiked the deal and sent everyone out on strike. This is not a union "looking out for" the workers. And a union who endangers a person's way of life over a $50 co-pay is not either.
I want to buy you a beer HR!!!!

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
I have never made this personal, all I have done is defend my views to people on these boards who obviously don't agree with my stance.Now some of you are making this personal,none of you know me well enough or for that fact at all, to call me stupid or lazy,because I belong to a union that looks out for my rights when they need to be defended against tyrannical a supervisor. When you start generalizing people into one category like MF. did you put yourself in line with the rest of the worlds biggots. If you do not agree with me thats fine but when you start insulting me you make it personal.I wont threaten anyone,because a threat from behind a computer screen is meaningless.I'll wait to do that in person.:mad: :mad: :mad:
LRB, I for one am not saying anything bad directed at you. In fact I am saying one of my biggest beefs with the union is that they let the lazy skate by by defending them. I worked in construction for many years and most worked very hard and knew what they were doing. The biggest FO or loser generally was made shop steward so they could not be laid off. The cronyism was thick too, and so the steward would make sure he got his FO buddies on the job too. So you had 30% of the work force carrying virtually the entire load.
To the union there is little difference betweeen the hard worker and the goof off or screw up. They all pay the same dues.
I understand you alegiance to the union, you have had a positive experience with it, I respect that.
My experience was very negative and I will always think the union is like a company or agency that puts itself in between the worker and the employer.
I understand the issue with the tyrannical supervisor, I have had my share of dealings with those types. But w/o the union, and I always made it work out to my advantage, or I left and found something better.
The Union doesn't add value or create anything just like the government, they only cost money and sap off the employee and the employer. That is only part opinion.
If you want to defend the union or spread their gospel, that is cool, but I feel that I have the right to disagree.. and I do.

[mbrown2]

Originally posted by HighRoller
MBrown2, I think you're a cool dude and all, but I disagree. I'm familiar with the call center and customer no-service jobs being outsourced to India, and there's a huge backlash right now against it. Dell Computer was one of the first to outsource their customer service and they are in the process of re-routing calls to the U.S.
HR, do a little bit more research on that Dell move...there is more to that then meets the eye...they only re-routed calls back to the US for their US customers and they will move those calls back to India once they get the issues that came up addressed, they have stated that in more recent releases....The way you stand up and ask to speak with someone in America is a good thing...unless you let companies know publicly that you will not support the transfer of American jobs by American companies, it will continue to happen....The backlash you speak of is not big enough...It needs to get a lot more press for companies to really take it seriously...

[HighRoller]

MB2, I was not trying to give the impression that Dell had scrapped the India thing. I was just giving an example of how business is not a "static" endeavor. I know Dell will make adjustments and continue to use offshore operators. They can't afford not to. The point I was making was to the people who say the sky is falling because companies were exporting jobs. Well, like I say, capitalism and business is like a flowing river. You may try to reroute it or put obstacles in the way but the water will always find a way around it. The Dell backlash is proof. So what if we lose menial jobs to India? A small businessman will exploit the customer's unhappiness and start a business to take advantage of it. Another company will offer better service and gain market share, subsequently leading to the hiring of more people. A technological breakthrough will flip the industry upside down and change everything. The middle class is made up of survivors, people who more than often are unskilled overacheivers. To say that a layoff will be the end of them is ridiculous. And in the end, if we don't buy Dell products and let them know why, as MB2 said, things will change.

[Essex502]

Originally posted by HighRoller
The middle class is made up of survivors, people who more than often are unskilled overacheivers.
I'd take exception to that statement, pardner! Not that we are a middle class family by any measure but I think you are unnecessarily miscategorizing what middle class is all about.

[HighRoller]

Sorry, I forgot to finish that thought. Educated underacheivers form a big part of the middle class as well. That's why the middle class is always in flux and will never disappear. It's always losing and gaining new members, no matter where the divining line falls between it and the lower/upper classes.

[little rowe boat]

Originally posted by Wicky
Obviously this is what you have inffered. Your response is spoken from guilt or I am just buzzed. Please correct me at the
BBSP
(a non union event)
Wicky you are obviously high on something to think I feel guilty or have inferred anything other than what I stated.I would love to show up at your non-union event and clarify my meaning.:wink:

[little rowe boat]

[i] I feel that I have the right to disagree.. and I do. [/B]
Dr.Eagle
If you would read my reply again,you would see that I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with my stance.I have a problem when people make it personal,by calling me,stupid or lazy,or anything else because they don't agree with my views.

[NorCal Gameshow]

It's amazing how much run this thread as received ...
paint brushes aren't that wide...(too much generalization..sp?..)
not all cashiers go beep beep beep ...where's my paycheck
non union workers also have their share of lazy what's in it for me attititudes...
gameshow--> just sittin' here shakin' my head
(no, i'm not a union worker)

[CrazyHippy]

I am a fairly young guy (25) and have never been a fan of unions. I was raised to take care of myself. If my job asks me to do something unsafe, or i am unhappy with benefits/wages, I can excercise my right to leave. I am my own union, and i do what is in MY best interest:eek:
Dont expect someone else to take care of your problems, handle them yourself.
BJH

[THOR]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
Dr.Eagle
If you would read my reply again,you would see that I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with my stance.I have a problem when people make it personal,by calling me,stupid or lazy,or anything else because they don't agree with my views.
Come on. that is exactly what the non-union folks are saying. "all union workers are lazy because they have job protection". I have been on many non union job sites where the guys are working in the dark. Not only does the work totally suck, but it is unsafe too.
The grocery store workers are far from the nail hammering, concrete pouring, drywall handling workers of the unions.

[C-2]

And meanwhile at the strike front....
Hmmmm…..something must be going on, one of the chains called in all their district managers this evening for an emergency meeting. Rumors had already been circulating that “secret” talks had been going on for several days now, we’ll see what happens.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
Come on. that is exactly what the non-union folks are saying. "all union workers are lazy because they have job protection". I have been on many non union job sites where the guys are working in the dark. Not only does the work totally suck, but it is unsafe too.
The grocery store workers are far from the nail hammering, concrete pouring, drywall handling workers of the unions.
Your point???:confused:

[Blown 472]

Revolution, the only solution,
We've taken all your shit, now it's time for restitution.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Revolution, the only solution,
We've taken all your shit, now it's time for restitution.
In the words of a recently famous politician....
Bring it on.......

[Essex502]

Our local Ralph's is back to being nearly fully stocked and the checkers and stock clerks are friendly and efficient. Wouldn't even know there was a strike going on except for this thread! :D
All those highly skilled and highly trained retail clerks that are out walking the line: "You'all have been replaced." All that skilled and trained labor lost...what a shame.

[Sandbar Junkies]

You bet we're still observing the picket lines!!! :)

[You Te]

I observe the line everytime I cross them.:D :D :D
You Te

[THOR]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Your point???:confused:
My point is that you dont have a clue. If you did, you would know the difference in quality and safety standards that go into union jobs versus scab jobs. Obviously you dont. That is my point.

[OGShocker]

Originally posted by THOR
My point is that you dont have a clue. If you did, you would know the difference in quality and safety standards that go into union jobs versus scab jobs. Obviously you dont. That is my point.
Thank you! I get it now! An unskilled cashier at Vons could put themselves at risk along with the safety of the general public. I know what can happen when a cashier uses a laser scanner improperly....
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~traister/hbomb.gif:rolleyes:

[HighRoller]

Geez, here we go with the name calling again. Am I a scab because I own a truck and trailer instead of taking a union job? I like the guy who said he's his own union. So am I. I don't need some fat, greedy extortionist to tell me what's safe and what isn't while he's bleeding my paycheck. Hey Thor, how much have you contributed in union dues in the last ten years? If you took that money and found out how much it would be worth in another 20 years at 10 percent interest you'd probably cry! Hope the union was worth it!! Call me a scab if you like because a scab is what happens to a bloated, puss filled union employee after they've had enough of the union and popped! A scab is evidence of the "healing" process.

[little rowe boat]

All of you union bashers and anti-union types.I just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart,for all of your support. :D

[HighRoller]

LRB, I will support the firefighters' unions because they are not a bunch of Aholes and don't have the power to strike. It makes them a lot more reasonable about the demands they make.

[little rowe boat]

You know what we call it,when we go in for contract negotiations. Collective Begging.:)

[THOR]

Originally posted by HighRoller
Geez, here we go with the name calling again. Am I a scab because I own a truck and trailer instead of taking a union job? I like the guy who said he's his own union. So am I. I don't need some fat, greedy extortionist to tell me what's safe and what isn't while he's bleeding my paycheck. Hey Thor, how much have you contributed in union dues in the last ten years? If you took that money and found out how much it would be worth in another 20 years at 10 percent interest you'd probably cry! Hope the union was worth it!! Call me a scab if you like because a scab is what happens to a bloated, puss filled union employee after they've had enough of the union and popped! A scab is evidence of the "healing" process.
Wait, I thought we were generalizing everyone in the same group. All of the non-union guys say that union guys are fat and lazy. All of the union guys say that the non-union guys are scabs, produce shitty work products and are at risk.
I figured I would generalize as well. Isnt that fair?

[Blown Lavey]

edited

[THOR]

Originally posted by OGShocker
Thank you! I get it now! An unskilled cashier at Vons could put themselves at risk along with the safety of the general public. I know what can happen when a cashier uses a laser scanner improperly....
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~traister/hbomb.gif:rolleyes:
Good generalization.
BTW, High Roller I havent paid any union dues. I am in a profession that does not require any unions.

[little rowe boat]

Hey I wish we could see what BL. posted,it must have been a little vulgar to warrant being edited. If it was edited for some reason,why not tone it down a bit and re-post.I am truly interested in what everyone has to say.:confused:

[OGShocker]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
All of you union bashers and anti-union types.I just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart,for all of your support. :D
I do support the rights of workers. I agree that some unions are needed. Coal Miners, Fire, Police... You know... Those that focus on worker safety.
I am off this topic because it seems to be a little LONG in the tooth... Kinda like me.;)

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
My point is that you dont have a clue. If you did, you would know the difference in quality and safety standards that go into union jobs versus scab jobs. Obviously you dont. That is my point.
Well, Thor...
I friggin worked Union Construction for over 10 years. If I don't have a clue, heaven help us if we have to depend on what you think...:yuk:

[THOR]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Well, Thor...
I friggin worked Union Construction for over 10 years. If I don't have a clue, heaven help us if we have to depend on what you think...:yuk:
Dont hate me, its not my fault you got fired. Keep hating the unions and having no particular reason to do so. You will have a rough go in life being this bitter. :yuk:

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
Dont hate me, its not my fault you got fired. Keep hating the unions and having no particular reason to do so. You will have a rough go in life being this bitter. :yuk:
I don't hate you...I pity you........ because think you know all, and yet in reality you know nothing. Oh and by the way, what experience have you had with a union??????????????????
And for the record, I left the union because I got a job that paid about 1.5X what I was getting stuck in that box, having to listen to rabble rousers like you. Best of luck when you awaken....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[JetBoatRich]

Dr.E never seen this side of you:eek:

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by JetBoatRich
Dr.E never seen this side of you:eek:
Sorry........:p

[JetBoatRich]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Sorry........:p
All good:wink:

[RUCAV]

I initially supported the unions cause. I am in a union, but it is public service oriented. Because Im still single, all my medical, dental etc are paid for by the city I work for. My friends in the private sector clued me in that they have been paying for their medical from day one.
Then I have been called out their 2 to 3 times a day because the picketers are getting crazy with the customers. 3 latinos began calling an asian woman racial slurs. When I pointed out one minority was harrassing another minority it looked like a light went on in their head. "Oh yeah." Im tired of seeing the picketers threaten women with their children to the point that it makes these people cry. These people are good people just trying to buy food for their families and SOME of these picketers treat them like crap. Funny thing. I have never responded to an incident like that when a man has been present. Hmmm

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by JetBoatRich
All good:wink:
Sometimes the Eagle reverts to Evil...he he he....;) Especially when the button keeps getting pushed....:p

[THOR]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
I don't hate you...I pity you........ because think you know all, and yet in reality you know nothing. Oh and by the way, what experience have you had with a union??????????????????
And for the record, I left the union because I got a job that paid about 1.5X what I was getting stuck in that box, having to listen to rabble rousers like you. Best of luck when you awaken....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Well then rich guy, give me a portion of all that money you make since you are boasting about the kind of $$ you are making. Union experience? Hmmm, carpenters union, iron workers union, sheet metal, electrical, all performed superior to their non-union counterparts. This is just what I have seen on job sites. Far fewer injuries related to jobs as well.
Next.....;)

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by RUCAV
Im tired of seeing the picketers threaten women with their children to the point that it makes these people cry. These people are good people just trying to buy food for their families and SOME of these picketers treat them like crap. Funny thing. I have never responded to an incident like that when a man has been present. Hmmm
Too many times have I seen picketers harrassing little kids with their Moms. One picketer walked alongside the child who was walking alongside his Mom's shopping cart. The picketer was essentially badgering the child telling him, "tell your Mommy not to come back here - not to shop at this store!" I told the a-hole to backoff and leave the children alone.
There is NO EXCUSE for picketers to speak to children or parents with children. Children are innocent and must be protected from ignorant disrespectful in-your-face picketers. If that were my kid I'd be visting the picket line with a Louisville Slugger.

[THOR]

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
Too many times have I seen picketers harrassing little kids with their Moms. One picketer walked alongside the child who was walking alongside his Mom's shopping cart. The picketer was essentially badgering the child telling him, "tell your Mommy not to come back here - not to shop at this store!" I told the a-hole to backoff and leave the children alone.
There is NO EXCUSE for picketers to speak to children or parents with children. Children are innocent and must be protected from ignorant disrespectful in-your-face picketers. If that were my kid I'd be visting the picket line with a Louisville Slugger.
I agree 100%. Have the balls to harass a grown man and see if you get away with it. :D

[AdrenelineOD]

What picket line. there detailing there cars on South and Downy LB.

[HighRoller]

Thor, were you referring to the same Iron workers union that destroyed the U.S. Steel industry?

[Wicky]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
Wicky you are obviously high on something to think I feel guilty or have inferred anything other than what I stated.I would love to show up at your non-union event and clarify my meaning.:wink:
As a matter of fact, I am high on Alcohol, the most abused drug in the world!!!!
Try owning your own business and have an outside group telling you how to run it. Please don't respond to this unless you plan to or, already have owned your own business. Without this pre-requisite you just couldn't understand lrb.
OK, do you have an Outboard or a big block? Either one you are still welcome at the BBSP. No union dues here!!!
Wicky

[little rowe boat]

Originally posted by Wicky
As a matter of fact, I am high on Alcohol, the most abused drug in the world!!!!
Try owning your own business and have an outside group telling you how to run it. Please don't respond to this unless you plan to or, already have owned your own business. Without this pre-requisite you just couldn't understand lrb.
OK, do you have an Outboard or a big block? Either one you are still welcome at the BBSP. No union dues here!!!
Wicky
as a matter of fact my wife and I do have a business and are in the process of starting up another one and I was also a non-union truck driver for 51/2 yrs and now work in a career where I have union representation. believe me I'm not here trying to start conflict,I just have a hard time when people start name calling and bashing people because they are on different sides of an issue.:)
Oh and yes have have a big block IO.:cool:

[Wicky]

I don't think anyone called you names and if they did so be it.
You are an adult. You own your own business.
Unions suck and that is my opinion. I know what your opiniion is!!!
Wicky

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
Well then rich guy, give me a portion of all that money you make since you are boasting about the kind of $$ you are making. Union experience? Hmmm, carpenters union, iron workers union, sheet metal, electrical, all performed superior to their non-union counterparts. This is just what I have seen on job sites. Far fewer injuries related to jobs as well.
Next.....;)
Well, now that I am recognized as the rich guy pontificating to the PO people...
Let me get this straight... you were in all those unions????????? And..... just exactly what is a "non-union counterpart"?
I was in the Carpenters Union for just under 10 years. I worked on a few small commercial, two residential units (custom homes) and a bunch of high rise buildings (7 be exact), an Aerospace High Bay, Los Angeles Harbor port improvements, a stadium, and aquatics complex a prison and a few shopping centers. During that time on the "safer" union jobs, there were 3 people killed (almost myself included when a crane toppled), three serious falls one where the victim fell three feet behind me, another of which paralized the victim. I had a crane break with a man basket on it with a laborer that worked for me and nearly killed him. A structural steel truss Chord rolled off dundage and nearly tore an inspector in two while on the High Bay. Construction is dangerous, period. The primary difference between Union and Non Union construction is that the union is another voice that talks up safety...which is a good thing.
However,I will cede you only one partial point here.
Large commercial work tends to stress safety more than small residential or dingbat work does. Large commercial work tends to have a larger percentage of union workers than does residential or small commercial dingbats.
Larger commercial projects tend to have larger risks associated with them and as such the safety programs and enforcement tend to follow the risk.
Now, I work for Bechtel, one of the largest General Contractors in the world. Bechtel works both Union and Non-Union depending on the most expedient way to accomplish the project. I can tell you from Bechtels perspective, (statistically) there is absolutely NO difference in safety between the two, except that you have the union guys talking about how much more safe they are than their non-union brethren.
It is for the most part a matter of scale and scope.
:rolleyes:

[Dr. Eagle]

LRB, I was thinking about this today, and Public Safety workers and even some other public servants really do NEED unions. The reason I say this is (seriously) that there are such huge political pressures on the managers or department heads in the organizations and the Union pretty well buffers you from those political Knee Jerks. It keeps the politicians in check so that they don't go jerking around the entire leadership of the FD for instance and replacing them with others more politically aligned with them.
And it also protects you from bosses that get a Hard On just cuz they can too...which is a side benefit.
:eek: :D

[AzDon]

After the grocery companies finish breaking their unions, we will then have another industry that will feel free to stop paying "adult " wages. What this means is that those grocery workers who require "adult" wages will retrain for careers that do pay a living wage and help create an oversupply of qualified help in their new field, maybe YOUR field!
The grocery worker who is a single mother of three may not be able to afford the time off for retraining, but she needn't worry too much about having her income reduced because as her income slips into poverty, she will qualify for foodstamps and welfare to make up the difference. This is nothing more than a taxpayer susidy for the employer that pays piss-poor wages. Cheapness and competition is causing every company in America to look closely at the abundant supply of potential help and ask themselves why THEY should pay any more than Burger King. Perhaps it's none of our business if the produce and meat guys are paid enough to know or care about food safety. Perhaps we shouldn't care if the clerical help and support staff working for our attorneys, doctors, accountants, financial services people, etc. are paid enough to know or care about what they do or get paid a living wage.
This march toward cheapness in wages will increasingly cost us as taxpayers as household members who make adult wages become more scarce. If you have family members living with you that are paid sub-living wages, then your adult wages are susidizing that family member's poor-wage employer.

[RUCAV]

Public safety personnel like Police and sheriffs have unions called POA's (police officer association) or DSA (deputy sheriff's association) etc. Their union does go to pay for many things including legal defense fund. They can at times help keep the politicians in check. However, the union head, who are also police officers or deputy sheriffs, can and frequently are black balled and dont make rank. They are seen as the troublemakers by the city and police administration and usually dont promote.

[THOR]

I never said I was in the unions, I just support them and what they stand for. As for the iron workers ruining the steel business, that is pure speculation and bullshit, plain and simple.
First, Bechtel is the world biggest GC, no question. And they have the safest jobs because they are a traditional union outfit and make their employees work safely. It has nothing to do with non union jobs. Statistically speaking (from facts), union jobs are much safer, no question. Just because you have some experiences does not make them unsafe. Maybe it is coincidence that you were on all of the unsafe jobs. Hmmm.....
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Well, now that I am recognized as the rich guy pontificating to the PO people...
Let me get this straight... you were in all those unions????????? And..... just exactly what is a "non-union counterpart"?
I was in the Carpenters Union for just under 10 years. I worked on a few small commercial, two residential units (custom homes) and a bunch of high rise buildings (7 be exact), an Aerospace High Bay, Los Angeles Harbor port improvements, a stadium, and aquatics complex a prison and a few shopping centers. During that time on the "safer" union jobs, there were 3 people killed (almost myself included when a crane toppled), three serious falls one where the victim fell three feet behind me, another of which paralized the victim. I had a crane break with a man basket on it with a laborer that worked for me and nearly killed him. A structural steel truss Chord rolled off dundage and nearly tore an inspector in two while on the High Bay. Construction is dangerous, period. The primary difference between Union and Non Union construction is that the union is another voice that talks up safety...which is a good thing.
However,I will cede you only one partial point here.
Large commercial work tends to stress safety more than small residential or dingbat work does. Large commercial work tends to have a larger percentage of union workers than does residential or small commercial dingbats.
Larger commercial projects tend to have larger risks associated with them and as such the safety programs and enforcement tend to follow the risk.
Now, I work for Bechtel, one of the largest General Contractors in the world. Bechtel works both Union and Non-Union depending on the most expedient way to accomplish the project. I can tell you from Bechtels perspective, (statistically) there is absolutely NO difference in safety between the two, except that you have the union guys talking about how much more safe they are than their non-union brethren.
It is for the most part a matter of scale and scope.
:rolleyes:

[moneysucker]

I can say one thing, Union workers are very punctual. Breaks are at 9am, lunch is at 12 and there is no one left on the job at 3:30. That is my experience. I am for some unions. Iron workers and teamsters, Mainly because I don't want to piss off the mob. I will not have any unions on my projects. I find that the job gets done faster with non union. And if you are woried about Quality of work, don't go to any new gas station/convenience stores in CA because we built them and didn't need any union rep coming by the job to colect his pay check from those who worked for it. I just can't see giving money to someone who will throw you under the bus to get more for themselves, I pay taxes I feel that is enough. I am willing the union reps for the grocery union haven't missed a check yet. Gotta be fed to fight for the cause. Just my opinion :yuk: :D

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
. Maybe it is coincidence that you were on all of the unsafe jobs. Hmmm.....
Yep, now it is official, you are an idiot...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Unions have artificially inflated the compensation levels of many jobs and professions....
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
And for the record, I left the union because I got a job that paid about 1.5X what I was getting...
Man...if union employees are getting "artificially inflated" compensation...your new compensation must be "super-duper double-secret inflated".

[THOR]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Yep, now it is official, you are an idiot...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Call me what you want, but if that is your only back up, then I will be an idiot. Remind me not to ever be on your jobs, people always seem to be getting hurt. Maybe you should have stayed in the unions to learn a little more and be less stuborn.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
I never said I was in the unions, I just support them and what they stand for.
So how do you know what they stand for? You have never paid dues in a construction trade union and you are a friggin expert on them. That's interesting! I paid dues for 10 years.
Oh, and your statistical data is drawn from where? What's that, your imagination?
With all due respect, (and IMHO none is due) again it's official...... you are an idiot.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
Call me what you want, but if that is your only back up, then I will be an idiot. Remind me not to ever be on your jobs, people always seem to be getting hurt. Maybe you should have stayed in the unions to learn a little more and be less stuborn.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
So how do you know what they stand for? You have never paid dues in a construction trade union and you are a friggin expert on them. That's interesting! I paid dues for 10 years.
Or how about a guy with construction-industry experience throwing a blanket over all unions (including the grocery industry)...pretty comical.
Don't be bitter, Nurse Beagle...

[THOR]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Or how about a guy with construction-industry experience throwing a blanket over all unions (including the grocery industry)...pretty comical.
Don't be bitter, Nurse Beagle...
LMAO
Funny, I brought the blanket thing up a few pages ago and nothing was said there either.
Eagle is a stuborn man for not sticking out and retiring after 20 years in the union. Dont be a bitter man Eagle, just be a man. LMAO

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Or how about a guy with construction-industry experience throwing a blanket over all unions (including the grocery industry)...pretty comical.
Don't be bitter, Nurse Beagle...
Construction industry was only ONE of my three union experiences HH.... although it was my longest one...
And I still feel the same way about Retail Clerks... unskilled workers getting skilled worker wages. Good ride while it lasted.
BTW Not bitter at all, just seem to be a lot of lovers of organized crime out there,,,,,,, he he he he he he he....:eek: :eek: :eek: :D :D

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
LMAO
Funny, I brought the blanket thing up a few pages ago and nothing was said there either.
Eagle is a stuborn man for not sticking out and retiring after 20 years in the union. Dont be a bitter man Eagle, just be a man. LMAO
Dude, you are useless.......
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
BTW Not bitter at all, just seem to be a lot of lovers of organized crime out there...
Now Nurse Beagle...better watch yer tongue. Say hi to Jimmy Hoffa for us.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Now Nurse Beagle...better watch yer tongue. Say hi to Jimmy Hoffa for us.
I'll let him know you and Thor loved his work and are on your way to visit him.....:D

[THOR]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Dude, you are useless.......
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Hmmmm, you have not comment better than 'useless'?
Come on, after 10 pages and nothing better to back up your non union thoughts than calling me names and useless. I always thought highly of Bechtel and their employees. I may have to change my ways now.
Are you sure you arent a retail clerk? A bitter retail clerk?

[OutCole'd]

Originally posted by THOR
Are you sure you arent a retail clerk? A bitter retail clerk?
LMAO!!

[THOR]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
I'll let him know you and Thor loved his work and are on your way to visit him.....:D
That's it. I am officially changing your name to "cement shoes dr. eagle".

[THOR]

Originally posted by OutCole'd
LMAO!! :D :D :D :yuk:

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
I'll let him know you and Thor loved his work and are on your way to visit him.
All that anti-labor talk will get you some cement shoes...
...of course, cement shoes perform better than your Delaminator...so it may be a step up!

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by THOR
Hmmmm, you have not comment better than 'useless'?
Come on, after 10 pages and nothing better to back up your non union thoughts than calling me names and useless. I always thought highly of Bechtel and their employees. I may have to change my ways now.
Are you sure you arent a retail clerk? A bitter retail clerk?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Pointless........
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Oh and I stand by all I have said, your arguments made no sense at all bud. I have said all I plan to. I have thrown a blanket over YOU!!!!!!!!

[little rowe boat]

Originally posted by Wicky
I don't think anyone called you names and if they did so be it.
You are an adult. You own your own business.
Unions suck and that is my opinion. I know what your opiniion is!!!
Wicky
Good and I'll keep giving it to you.Read back a few pages and you will see where the name calling started.

[THOR]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Pointless........
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Point and click that scanner retail clerk.
Dr. Eagle - "clean up and aisle 7"
pick up some tissue on your way back

[OutCole'd]

I keep wanting to hear him talk as Dr. Evil

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by OutCole'd
I keep wanting to hear him talk as Dr. Evil
How about this:
We are going to go back to the 60s and steal the AFL-CIOs MOJO, with pinky to mouth.:D :D :D :D

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Man...if union employees are getting "artificially inflated" compensation...your new compensation must be "super-duper double-secret inflated".
Well HH I moved from a trade to a professional or engineering position. It pays better...hmmmmmm what was that I said about marketable skills getting higher compensation?

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
...hmmmmmm what was that I said about marketable skills getting higher compensation?
Like I said...keep talkin' trash about unions, Nurse Beagle...
...maybe they'll paint some checkers on those cement shoes to make ya feel at home!

[Wicky]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
Good and I'll keep giving it to you.Read back a few pages and you will see where the name calling started.
Quote it and show it to me lrb!! I hurts my head to read backwards.lol. BTW, what kind of business do ya have??
Wicky

[little rowe boat]

I don't feel like reading back either. My wife has a creative memories business that I help her run and we are starting up a medical billing business.

[Wicky]

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor lrb.

[little rowe boat]

Thanks,we have alot of work ahead of us.