New Shockwave Cat

[Budget Baller]

I just saw it on the way home from work. It looked real nice. It was on the way to the convention center.

[BoatFloating]

My understanding the bottom is a Firehawk???? What do you hear....

[rivercrazy]

I can't wait to see it. Saw the plug and it was bad-ass. A significant amount of differences in its size class (like a usable below bow area). I heard it a Talon bottom variant

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by rivercrazy
I can't wait to see it. Saw the plug and it was bad-ass. A significant amount of differences in its size class (like a usable below bow area). I heard it a Talon bottom variant
That would be Firehawk then...

[Riverhound]

Originally posted by BoatFloating
That would be Firehawk then...
Would'nt it also make it similar to the A.O., Conquest, Magic and a few others that were all derived from the Talon bottom?:confused:

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by Riverhound
Would'nt it also make it similar to the A.O., Conquest, Magic and a few others that were all derived from the Talon bottom?:confused:
If you want to use the word derived:rolleyes: I have another term for it. I have it thru good sorces it's a Firehawk bottom. I'm under the impression it wasn't built from the ground up!

[playdeep]

So would that make it...
...a splash of a splash?
I am kind of out of the loop..is "derived from" the new less controversial term for splashing?

[rivercrazy]

Heres a pic of the plug that I saw:
http://riverracerx.com/images/mb2/uploads/post-29-79673-P0001121.jpg
The deck look very much like a 29 magnatude.
http://riverracerx.com/images/mb2/uploads/post-29-79562-P0001118.jpg

[UnionJack]

everyone loves cats..... once you go cat you never go back

[CEO]

That thing is Bad Ass. I saw it today at the show. Great lines lots of room and just a great looking boat. I was very impressed by that Cat.

[Charley]

Very nice lines indeed it's alot closer to the magic than a firehawk! Good job to shockwave, assuming they run good and are fairly priced, they will be selling alot of those bad boys.

[Riverhound]

Here's a couple of photos I snapped at the boat show on Saturday. Very nice looking boat.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/201Boat_shoow_005-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/201Boat_shoow_006-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/201Boat_shoow_004-med.jpg

[rivercrazy]

Here's a couple more that I shot. After looking at it first hand, I'm really impressed by the hull. Major room in the cabin and more room below the bow than any 26 cat that I've seen so far. And the deck does look very unique and Shockwaveish....
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/522/80Picture_094-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/522/80Picture_093-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/522/80Picture_092-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/522/80Picture_091-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/522/80Picture_090-med.jpg
If it wasn't for the cost of insurance:yuk: I would be thinking really hard about a change....

[roln 20s]

This thing looks great in person- Barry and the Shockwave team have a great boat on their hands. Special- I mean SPECIAL pricing on the 1st 5 boats sold. This thing has a ton of room- just an all around beautiful boat. Can't wait to hear how it runs.
Roln 20s

[PHX ATC]

Looking good!

[TOBTEK]

very nice looking! What kind of $$$$$$ are they?

[jackpunx]

I think for the first 5 sales it was 60K with the 496 set up

[24RODjr]

65,900 after that...

[TOBTEK]

Originally posted by jackpunx
I think for the first 5 sales it was 60K with the 496 set up
wow.....sounds competive. How much more $$$ is a 525 or 575?

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by TOBTEK
wow.....sounds competive. How much more $$$ is a 525 or 575?
If they are using the 496 Mag as the base the the HO would be more $$$$. I would say add $25K for the 525 and $35K for the 575. Still not bad pricing on the boat.

[Ivan Dan]

Hey Rivercrazy~
The insurance isn't that bad. I just bought a 28' Magic Deckboat with a 496HO and the insurance is only $750/year. Go for the cat...you won't regret it!
www.DanKaatz.com

[Havasu Cig]

You put some decent hp in a cat and you would be suprised how much it will be.
I payed as much for my Mach 26 w/ 800 hp as I do for our Top Gun, with the value of the Gun being considerably more.

[rivercrazy]

Originally posted by Ivan Dan
Hey Rivercrazy~
The insurance isn't that bad. I just bought a 28' Magic Deckboat with a 496HO and the insurance is only $750/year. Go for the cat...you won't regret it!
www.DanKaatz.com
HEY - Quit giving me ideas focker! :D

[mbrown2]

I think you will pay more in insurance for the Shockwave Cat than you will for the Magic Deck....Any Cat will be more than a Party Deck/Cat boat....
Everyone I know is paying more than a 1000 a year on Cat's with stock horsepower 496 or 502....I am suprised that the Magic is getting 800 a year for Insurance...that is a killer deal.

[Kilrtoy]

Barry at SHOCKWAVE
Told me that they tooled the bottom and the top is from their 29 footer.
All new boat......

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Barry at SHOCKWAVE
Told me that they tooled the bottom and the top is from their 29 footer.
All new boat......
And you believed him??? :rolleyes:
Boy are you gullable! :p
They may have "tooled" that bottom, but it sure looks a helluva lot like about 20 other boats out there right now. Perhaps we should put a tape measure on it and gather some data...
:D

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Barry at SHOCKWAVE
Told me that they tooled the bottom and the top is from their 29 footer.
All new boat......
What did you think he would tell you.
It looks like a very nice boat but let's call a spade a spade. here is my evidence and yoe the judge. I wish AO and Firehawk had better pictures on there web site but I think you get the picture
Shockwave front
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/3708DSC01942-med.JPG
AO front
http://www.american-offshore.com/_borders/image63.gif
Look at the lines in the sponsons and how it bows out near top on rub rail near front hook
Shockwave rear
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/522/80Picture_092-med.jpg
Firehawk rear
http://www.firehawkboats.com/media/gallery1.jpg
Notice the same square back and the step in away from the back transom.
In my opinion and with good info this is a sp@*$h you be the judge. If you tool your own bottom there is no simularities in the bottom in front and in the back.
Now you say so whats the big deal it's a nice looking boat and AO has a good bottom that came from Talon, I won't argue that the boat looks sweet and is well built but when you say that's a great price their selling them at, now you know why. I'll just say that it costs less this way than to tool it from the ground up and test and make sure the bottom will work. There is a ton of time in testing and re-tooling to get it perfect and costs involved. So if you copy a water tested bottom it equals less money no testing and overall less costs into the boat. This is whyother boat mfg's that don't do this process are finding it tough to compete in the price market. Maybe I'm dumb but I've never heard of any Mfg use a V bottom top and tooling it to a Cat, but it does save money. I was at there booth Saturday and asked 3 salesman what the beam is and none of them knew. They had to ask Barry and he didn't know for sure it and had to think a minute and finally said oh ya!, it's the same as the 29'. How do you not know the specs of a new boat you have at the show?
You be the judge?

[Kilrtoy]

I just got done looking at the DCB and the back end is also square.
The front end of the Force is almost the same also...
seriously, I HAVE NO CLUE. I asked him and that is what he said, But your points due raise my eyebrows......

[BoatFloating]

Again the "S" word has been done by a number with builders out there and I guess you could argue there is nothing wrong with it but I would argue there is. When you go back to show look DCB front and back, Lavey, Force and Eliminator each one won't look alike the back is square but they won't look the same. Go look at Conquest and Magis cats and compare to Shockwave you'll see what I'm talking about. Trust me Barry isn't going tell you he splashed a Firehawk but there are some builders that will but for the most part they keep it hush, hush.
Would it stop me from buying that boat? no. It's still a nice looking and well put together boat. Just know what you are getting. The best way to tell if it's a splashed asked to see the test plug. This will be a mold they tested with power at the lake.

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
I just got done looking at the DCB and the back end is also square.
The front end of the Force is almost the same also...
seriously, I HAVE NO CLUE. I asked him and that is what he said, But your points due raise my eyebrows......
Kilrtoy, since you don't hang much in the cats section, you probably haven't seen much of this discussion... suffice to say it's been covered. There are MANY boats out there that share an exact or very close copy of the Talon bottom, including but not limited to Talon 25 (there can be only ONE!), AO 26, Firehawk 26, Conquest 28, Commander 28, Magic 28, Eliminator 27 Deck, Howard 26, and now "maybe" Shockwave 26. There are others; I just can't remember them at the moment. Maybe the Rayson as well? Maybe someone else can help with that one. The 25/26/27/28 distinction comes from where they're measuring to, i.e. the notch, the transom, or the back of swim deck on the 27/28s. If you look closely at the depth and shape of the sponsons and pod, the location of the steps, lifting strakes, and spray rails, you will see remarkable "similarity". That is not to say that they all perform the same. Some are clearly faster than the others because the manufacturers have focused on making the molds clean and straight, and have tuned the rigging for optimum X dimension, weight, and balance. If Shockwave's other boats are any indication, I'm betting that this boat will be very nice indeed. Who really cares if it was "borrowed" or not... I have no problem with it as long as the manufacturer doesn't try to claim it as his own original design.
I'll probably catch hell for this, but the Machs sure do look a lot like Daytonas... :p
-brian

[roln 20s]

I don't care who really tooled it- it definately fits within their line of boats, and if its on a proven and well designed bottom, its even better. Barry told be the top was from sections of the 29 Magnatude--and if you look at them, they look identical. The cockpit in this 26 cat is the EXACT same size of the 29. I think its going to be a big winner for Shockwave- I love the lines and think they make a very nice boat, plus first 5 with 496 Mags for 60K. Who can touch that?
Roln 20s

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by DogHouse
Maybe the Rayson as well? Maybe someone else can help with that one.-brian
I help you there. Rayson Splashed the Carrera 257 Effect, and we know where the Rayson ended up and now has streched into a 29' and a 32'. See you "Forced" me into the answer.
Brian, Very good post I couldn't explained it any better way. The only thing I would argue is it gives companies that splash a advantage in keeping cost low and other companies that don't that spend alot of money tooling orginal designs at a dis-advantage.

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by BoatFloating
I help you there. Rayson Splashed the Carrera 257 Effect, and we know where the Rayson ended up and now has streched into a 29' and a 32'. See you "Forced" me into the answer.
Very good, LOL! ;)
Now I think I'm in "aftershock"... :D

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by DogHouse
Very good, LOL! ;)
Now I think I'm in "aftershock"... :D
Touche!

[Kilrtoy]

Thanks guys,
:eek!:

[rivercrazy]

I don't know all the details. But from my understanding its a Talon derivative but they did do some significant changes to the bottom. I do know they have spent a considerable amount of time and resources making this hull. Enough where they can definately call the 26 cat all their own for sure.
I do know that most cats on the market came from two slightly different designs. The Ron/eliminator bottom and the Talon derivatives. This includes the Carerra's, Eliminators, DCB's, AO's, and the list goes on. These bottom types are the most proven.
Most V bottoms came from a half dozen designs too. Like the 21 Eliminator Sport cruiser bottom that became very popular in the mid 70's and subsequently everyone else has used from time to time

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by rivercrazy
I don't know all the details. But from my understanding its a Talon derivative but they did do some significant changes to the bottom. I do know they have spent a considerable amount of time and resources making this hull. Enough where they can definately call the 26 cat all their own for sure.
I do know that most cats on the market came from two slightly different designs. The Ron/eliminator bottom and the Talon derivatives. This includes the Carerra's, Eliminators, DCB's, AO's, and the list goes on. These bottom types are the most proven.
Most V bottoms came from a half dozen designs too. Like the 21 Eliminator Sport cruiser bottom that became very popular in the mid 70's and subsequently everyone else has used from time to time
I'll disagree with you there. Did they test the plug with power do you know that? If they didn't I don't think they changed the bottom that much, why messs with what is proven. You don't spend nearly as much resorces on "derivatives" if it's a splash. Carrera has had a 32' they've been tooling for 2 years and is still being worked. The 257 took 2 + years. My sorce told me Firehawk but what's the difference, I think he was right on target.

[mbrown2]

Originally posted by DogHouse
I'll probably catch hell for this, but the Machs sure do look a lot like Daytonas... :p
-brian
I too think they look similiar, but not the same....deeper sponsons on the mach, also centerpod is slightly different, and different knotch/step setup....plus if you remember the Hot Boat article, it actually followed the steps of DCB tooling the plug for the Mach26.....

[Three Days Only]

Havasu Cig,
Your on the money about the insurance thing. Im paying 4600 per year. That magic owner crusied through the underwriter in my mind. They have not figured out yet that most deckboats are cats. The insurance companies will nail those next!!!!

[DogHouse]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the Daytonas were splashed in the same sense that the Talon was, but it does look like they were certainly the inspiration for the Machs. I kind of agree with Rivercrazy about there being just a few basic designs out there, but I would also include the Carerra as a separate design from the Talon and Daytona styles because it is so shallow. Then there's the HTM of course, although didn't Warlock make something similar in the old 31 with that big V center pod? I suppose we're also forgetting the offshore crowd with the Skater and a host of knockoffs. We could argue about the placement of steps on the sponsons but then who cares when they're completely out of the water anyways?
:D

[shockwavebd]

Normally I stay off of his board because of shit like this ... ...do you know how much time and money goes into making a boat like this ? we started with a basic running surface and then added what we learned on our 29 bottom take a tape and measure the location of the step........ and the dept of the clean out ,and yes it does look like eveyones talon ,fire hawk ,conquest what ever that because thats what works we didn't steal and bodys boat and we didn't slash anything, sorry to come off like an ass but this really pisses me off, we worked very hard to get where we are and this boat was a labour of love if you have any questions feel free to call me I will be more then happy to show you how we do things
909\898\9360...Barry Diehl shockwave boats

[Kilrtoy]

Thank you Barry

[DogHouse]

Interesting response from a manufacturer... :rolleyes:
Nobody said that it was a bad thing that the new hull is derived from the Talon. In fact most recognize that it works well and that's why it's popular. I asked about it when I bought my boat and was told something similar where the basic design was not original but that they had done a lot of work to clean up the lines and tune the bottom to their liking. Fair enough, I'm sure most of the good companies out there spend plenty on r&d on a new boat to make sure it performs as expected. Even so, it doesn't change the fact that the basic design is shared with many other boats; might as well admit it and move on.
By the way, ASSuming that people don't have a clue and telling them to shut up is not too smart IMO. Instead of getting pissed and defensive, why not tell us why yours is better than the rest and impress us?
:)

[shockwavebd]

sorry about that part I got home late after long hours at the boat show and got a little tick I will remove that part
why not tell us why yours is better than the rest and impress us? ...Great I deal ...But we have not tested it yet...........:D

[Havasu Cig]

3DO,
I think you are right, I don't think they know what they insured when they wrote the policy on the Magic.
I am paying about $3500. a year on the Cig, which is the same I was paying for my last Mach. This is with good coverage and agreed value replacement.
Insurance is definitely a killer.

[Sandbar Mike]

What up DogHouse.
Speaking for Barry, I don't think he was trying to offend any of you/us guys, I think as a manufacturer when your name is brought into a conversation that insinuates that your company is copy cating (No Pund):D it pisses you off.
You can't hammer the guy for responding to being hammerd on.
Well said Barry.
Not to say Shockwave has splashed,
On the note of splashing, my personal -opinion- is that if a company copies a basic design for a cat and makes changes to it for better or worse who cares. If the price is right and it looks good, by the son of a bitch and have a blast. My opinion of splashing is if a company builds boat blanks and sells them to another company who outfits them differently and calls them another name. Would that be a copy cat.
Dam I'm feeling opinionated today
:yuk: :D :D :D

[NorCalCat]

Well said Sandbar! Isn't that how DCB got his wings????

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by Sandbar Mike
What up DogHouse.
The usual... ;)
Speaking for Barry, I don't think he was trying to offend any of you/us guys, I think as a manufacturer when your name is brought into a conversation that insinuates that your company is copy cating (No Pund):D it pisses you off.
You can't hammer the guy for responding to being hammerd on.
Well said Barry.
Well, nobody was hammering to start with. We were just calling a spade a spade. Yes we realize that the bottom may be modified slightly and hopefully tuned to match the characteristics of the new boat. IMO that makes it a derivative, adaptation, etc, not an original design. The hammering started when we were told that we didn't have a clue and to shut up. That part of the post has been deleted, which is fine, but now leaves people scratching their heads I'm sure. No big deal, we all have our moments...
Not to say Shockwave has splashed,
On the note of splashing, my personal -opinion- is that if a company copies a basic design for a cat and makes changes to it for better or worse who cares. If the price is right and it looks good, by the son of a bitch and have a blast. My opinion of splashing is if a company builds boat blanks and sells them to another company who outfits them differently and calls them another name. Would that be a copy cat.
Dam I'm feeling opinionated today
:yuk: :D :D :D
Speaking of that, I stopped by a local shop here in Phx a few months back. They were buying blank hulls from DCB, interiors from another builder here in Phx (Magic/Sleek I think), and then doing the rigging (which was clean on the 28V that I saw). Forgot the name of the company though. Voila, bargain DCB! :D
Just for the record Barry, I'm definitely not bashing you or your boats, just stating my opinions. You make nice products that I would be proud to own. If you'd put a swim deck on that beast and raise the center pod 4", I might think about a trade...
:cool:

[BoatFloating]

The hammering started when we were told that we didn't have a clue and to shut up. That part of the post has been deleted
Too bad I missed that. Because I do know what I'm talking about on this one. I too never said the boat wasn't nice and didn't look good. I believe there are splashing laws and one way around them I believe is you have to change a % of the design, I want to say 10% not even sure that is true. With that being said if the boat wasn't a splash then pulled and redesigned then remolded I would love to see pictures of the tooling process. Since the boat is done it won't give away any secrets. Then tell people what it is not an orginal design, but a tried and true design from the Talon and they'll still buy it like Sandbar Mike said. Don't call the customers idots, there is a couple of smart well thought out boat buyers out there.

[roln 20s]

Speaking of that, I stopped by a local shop here in Phx a few months back. They were buying blank hulls from DCB, interiors from another builder here in Phx (Magic/Sleek I think), and then doing the rigging (which was clean on the 28V that I saw). Forgot the name of the company though. Voila, bargain DCB!
You are referring to Streamline Custom boats:D
Roln 20s

[DogHouse]

Roln, it's time... :D
You need to be one of those first five kickoff customers and pick up a great deal on a killer boat! :cool:

[roln 20s]

You need to be one of those first five kickoff customers and pick up a great deal on a killer boat!
I did talk to Barry about it for a few. Its a super nice boat, and when he told me the price, I started reaching for my wallet--then I realized it was empty, except for my lucky $2 bill :D (but unfortunately that won't cover it). I know this may come as a surprise, but I am kinda leaning away from a cat--that 25 Howard Bullet is calling my name.
If I decide to get a cat, my short list will include Shockwave! They were great too me back in the day, when I was 19 (almost a full 3 years ago :D), and went for a tour--that meant alot, and definately will ALWAYS keep them on my short list. Being nice to people NOT buying at that time does have its rewards.
Roln 20s <----(thanks for looking out for me Doghouse- BTW, I'm still trying to sell your boat for 95K so I can get my commission...and a new boat :D)

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by roln 20s
I know this may come as a surprise, but I am kinda leaning away from a cat--that 25 Howard Bullet is calling my name.
Ok, you can't park with us anymore. ;)
You think a boat called "Bullet" is going to be easier to insure than a cat? :confused:
I know, that Howard is a really nice boat, but but but it's a V! :yuk: :D

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by roln 20s
I did talk to Barry about it for a few. Its a super nice boat, and when he told me the price, I started reaching for my wallet--then I realized it was empty, except for my lucky $2 bill :D (but unfortunately that won't cover it). I know this may come as a surprise, but I am kinda leaning away from a cat--that 25 Howard Bullet is calling my name.
If I decide to get a cat, my short list will include Shockwave! They were great too me back in the day, when I was 19 (almost a full 3 years ago :D), and went for a tour--that meant alot, and definately will ALWAYS keep them on my short list. Being nice to people NOT buying at that time does have its rewards.
Roln 20s <----(thanks for looking out for me Doghouse- BTW, I'm still trying to sell your boat for 95K so I can get my commission...and a new boat :D)
Roln, don't go to the darkside!!!!!
Just kidding the Bullet is a great boat. Mike tells me you used to stop in his shop all the time going back to college. No wonder why you love their boats. The Bullet is a sweet ride.

[roln 20s]

Just kidding the Bullet is a great boat. Mike tells me you used to stop in his shop all the time going back to college. No wonder why you love their boats. The Bullet is a sweet ride.
Yep, Mike is correct. I started school in Fall of 99, and stopped by the Howard showroom almost everytime I drove to or from school over the course of 3 1/2 years. I remember talking to Mike a couple years ago, when I first saw the 28 Bullet, and told him, I loved it, but it was too big for me and he should make a 24 or 25 foot version. Well, I think he was thinking on the same page that I was--needless to say, its better than I could have imagined. Plus, one time we were there Gene and Mike took my mom and I back when they pulled a 28 out of the mold-- one of the coolest experiences ever (even my mom wanted one after seeing that- and she hasn't been to the lake in 4 years) Gene and Mike have always been great to me. Its definately one of the best built boats around, but only $$$ will tell what I own. I am now trying to talk Mike into tooling a new version of the 26 cat, which will most likely become more like a 27' cat version with the Bullet stule deck. However, there are some current Howard cat customers that are pushing for a bigger cat, aroun 30'. Both will be awesome I am sure, and I even went as far to say I would buy the first 26-27 Howard cat after the deck is redone- I know BOLD statement. We'll see- I can't go wrong with either boat. Those guys are all top notch and their boats and the company reflect that. I'd love to give them my $$,$$$.$$, or better yet $$$,$$$.$$ :D
Roln 20s <---now really dreamin about a HOWARD!

[H2O BND]

hey rivercrazy...who is your insurance through?

[rivercrazy]

Progressive. But I don't have the 26 cat. I have the 25 V bottom Tremor