Imco SC Drive Failures ... Beware!

[Charley]

Well... I have to admit I was truly not expecting this situation to be worked out, especially so quickly, but it has. Fred Inman Sr. and I spoke this morning on the phone about my situation and we have reached an agreement/concession that will both satisfy me personally and also renew my hope with Imco and thier commitment to service after the sale. I would prefer not to divulge all of the details, but one very important factor for me, and all of you, was that according to Fred Sr., Imco will be more receptive when dealing with people when we have parts failures.... basically looking at the individual situation rather than a blanket style assumption. Lets be honest, high performance parts do break... sometimes it's the consumers fault sometimes it's the manufacturers.... I guess with my situation we will never Truly Know exactly what happend, but a smart business owner(Fred Sr.) and a boat owner (Me) were able to reach a fair compromise that renews my personal hope in them as a company and thier products. I hope and believe this means a higher level of service from Imco to all of us... Thank you to all of you for the support here and PM responses too, thanks to all of you my family and I can put this situation behind us and get back to boating ;):D :D

[79 HUSTLER]

I hope this will catches their eye and make this right for you and others. That sucks-hope you get it taken care of. KELLY

[mbrown2]

http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20bs005.jpg
I wonder if he will warranty his own drives when blows them up sitting behind the quad rotors?:D :confused: :D :confused:
Sorry to hear that Charley, I noticed IMCO introduced the new stronger gimbal assembly at the show...

[Charley]

Originally posted by carbonmarine
I CALL BULLSHIT !!!
Getting Teague Custom Marine to stand behind something or someone without getting ****ed is next to impossible....
** You get no kisses there either before you get over charged for serviceable/replacable products
( To borrow) I might be wrong; but again, its only my opinion ..
Rick32:cool:
I can only tell you when I dealt with Bob he was a stand up guy and handled it...I'm sorry if you have not had a similar experience but thats not what this thread is about so stop hijacking it!:D ;)

[unleashed]

Charley what is it costing you to get it fixed???
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:

[CEO]

You know the boys over there at IMCO read these boards also. Every "boat builder and Marine place" reads these boards. A little advice, We all talk and know the shit that certain Companys try or have tried to pull on one of "us." Save yourself headaches, and the smack talk, step it up and do the right thing. A kind word about a problem that was taken care of goes along way. ;)

[HighRoller]

I agree, especially with as many high HP applications people have here on the boards. I'm dissappointed to hear that IMCO would acknowledge the problem with a publicized "upgrade" but deny there was a problem when it came time to back it up. If they were my drives I'd sell them, tell everyone why I sold them and tell everyone not to buy one for the rest of my life. If you can't get satisfaction up front, get your pound of flesh out of their asses!

[fourspeednup]

That situation sucks, I used to think of them as having very high quality products but something may be amiss in this plan...
If they were my drives I'd sell them, tell everyone why I sold them and tell everyone not to buy one for the rest of my life.

[Hallett19]

For every good experience someone has, they tell 7 people, for every bad one, they tell 11 :) ....... I think ..... Sounds like you got taken Charlie, hopefully they stand up like Dave did for you, he came out smelling like roses in the end and probably sold a few more boats becuase of it. I like the size of those XR's when I was at the show last year, it looks like they can take anything (this coming from a jet guy :rolleyes: )

[25Elmn8r]

That sucks Charley! Sorry to hear that!
I thought Imco would handle this obvious warranty issue for you.
Question: What does Imco say the drives are rated to and what is the length of their so called warranty?
So are you going with XR's? If so I think they will stand up to the hp that you are pushing better than the IMCO's.
By the way: you still owe me a ride in that 29!

[CAPTROBBY]

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT,
2 YEARS AGO MY BRAVO LOWER UNIT COMPLETLY BLEW APART TO THE EXTENT I NEEDED A NEW LOWER CASE AS WELL AS ALL OF THE GUTS. THE FAILURE TOOK PLACE WITH LESS THAN 100 HOURS ON THE BOAT. THE PROBLEM WAS THAT THE WARRENTY WAS THREE MONTHS OUT OF DATE. I'M VERY PLEASED TO SAY MERCURY STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE, AND NOT ONLY REPLACED ALL OF THE NEEDED PARTS BUT COVERD THE LABOR AS WELL.
THEY STOOD BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT. KUDOS TO THE FOLKS AT MERC. I AM PRUOD TO SAY MY NEW BOAT HAS A BRAND NEW 525 W/ AN XR DRIVE.

[faster]

I had an Imco Lower that Failed within the first 10 minutes of being installed on the first day of a 1 week vacation. I called IMCO to find out what I needed to do to get it replaced. They pretty much told me to pound sand. They were more interested in getting me off the phone before they even knew what my problem was!
Needless to say I took my Failed Imco Drive up to the boys at Max Machine Worx in havasu. They fixed it just to help me get back on the water. I Had them build me one of theirs, picked it up later that week, took the Imco off and it's still sitting in a box on my shop floor.
Go to Max Machine, Jason and Red are great and will deliver the customer service you'd expect on a big ticket item

[unleashed]

I think the point is they are telling Charlie it is driver error(Driving with the drives to High). That is a good way of getting out of having to cover the costs. Keep on them Charlie and let them know they will only lose business if they dont acknowledge the problem.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:

[Dave C]

Thanks for the story Charlie.
I have been doing some research and I was "wondering" about those small u-joints in that SC. Honestly I didn't think that looked very good prior to this.
Honestly I was leaning towards the upgraded XR in the first place, now I have more evidence for my choice.
My new boat is going to be powered kinda like yours albeit with just one motor. :D

[Donnie]

That is exactly why Bergeron put a XZ on by boat when the drive blew...Knock on wood 100 hours @ 888hp no problems.
Bergeron even gave me a 1 year warrany on the new drive:D

[boatnam2]

i went with a xr from teague,have not had a problem with it yet.but when it was new had a issue with the hose from the oil resevoir to the outdrive broke twice getting water into the drive.both times he completly took apart my drive inspected it and put it back together.i know alot of other places would of just drained the oil and said your good to go only to have problems later that they would tell you it was your fault.

[jbtrailerjim]

I just talked to Grass Pays (Joey) and he just had a similiar problem as Charley did and they used the same excuse that they gave Charley. They told him he must of had it trimmed too high. They pretty much blew him off. His drive had a whole lot less hours than Charley's did also. Sounds like IMCO is being chicken shit about the whole thing.

[HighRoller]

And for what? This is a perfect example of a company looking to save a buck without relizing they're losing 10 in the process!! I would be interested in how Dave is taking this.

[riverliver]

Wait till you hear about the problems with the 4x4...:eek: :eek:

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Thannks for the info Charley and everyone else with the input.
we were thinking about the imco but now we are thinking another route. :confused:

[BoatFloating]

Charley, thanks for the update. I heard from Carlos on Saturday about the problem. What a bunch of crap and was looking at the Imco drives as a possibilty, not anymore. I'm even hearing that 4X4 has had some issues. $25K for a drive that breaks lowers, shit buy a #6 for $5K more and call it done. I hate companies that don't stand behind their stuff even under warranty and make excuses claiming operator error, yeah, ok!

[Charley]

Originally posted by unleashed
Charley what is it costing you to get it fixed???
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:
alot.. ill call ya:mad:

[Jordy]

Hey Mr. Big, that's pretty ****in' weak. Don't they know who they're messing with? ;) :D :D
Good luck in this whole deal, and seriously it does suck. Seems to be the trend lately though. Boatnam's boat does what it does because he doesn't know how to drive it. You and Grass Pay's apparently don't know how to trim it. Perhaps they could set up some kind of a school so everyone can get it together. :D
Jordy

[Tinkerer]

There have been many posts on OSO about problems with the IMCO drives and their failure to stand behind their product.
Some people have even been told ( WHAT ABOUT - NO WARRANTY - DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND )

[Jordy]

Originally posted by Tinkerboater
( WHAT ABOUT - NO WARRANTY - DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND )
Hey, there's a warranty. It just happens to be 5 years everything but parts and labor. ;)

[gnarley]

What’s the cost of the Bravo XR and the Imco SC? If similarly priced I would pick the one that stands behind their product with a warranty and walk away laughing at the one who didn’t.

[HighRoller]

After they told you it was caused by incorrect trim you should have told them Bob Teague was driving it when it blew. Would love to hear what they had to say then:D

[welk2party]

If I treated my customers this way, I would be out looking for a new career in short order. My experience has always been that 1 unhappy customer translates to untold amounts of lost business. My mentor in business when I was in college would go to great strides to satisfy an unhappy cusotmer. Even if the customer was wrong. The theory being it is like advertising. It is cheaper in the long run to absorb the cost of making a customer happy by consider it advertising. We would not pay to advertise the wrong message about our products, so why would we lose the opportunity to create a satisfied customer who does part of our advertising every time he talks to someone. Investing in our brand or service.
This thread is proving that. How many people posting and yet how many more reding this thread will think twice before buying IMCO? Unfortunately for IMCO, it was 1 too many already.:yuk:

[carbonmarine]

I had two issues with my Merc XZ drives.... I took it to Jim Wilkes in Santa Ana and He called Merc.... Two new XZ's showed up next day were installed on Mercs Tab ...
Rick32

[welk2party]

BTW, I feel really good now about my upgrade to an XR.:D :cool:

[24ROD]

Charley, that sucks! Imco should step up and take care of the problem. You mentioned Teague and Peto standing behind there products. In our experiance with Teague he stood behind his product and took care of the hicups we had. All work was completed on time as promised just before a big Holiday weekend. Good luck I hope it works out for you.

[HighRoller]

Dear IMCO,
428 views and counting.

[CEO]

EXACTLY ! high roller, Get the hint IMCO?:yuk:

[Charley]

Originally posted by HighRoller
Dear IMCO,
428 views and counting.
LMAO... thats funny

[CEO]

It is on! Poor choice of people to F#@k

[mbrown2]

Originally posted by jordanpaulk
Boatnam's boat does what it does because he doesn't know how to drive it. You and Grass Pay's apparently don't know how to trim it. Perhaps they could set up some kind of a school so everyone can get it together. :D
Jordy
That's funny stuff right there....git-r-done:D

[beer hunter]

I think I'll stop by the Imco booth and let them know there's a lot of people in the performance boating community that are not going to be purchasing their products because of stories like this:mad: Thanks for the warning and the timing couldn't be better:D

[WetWillie]

I was told at the Eliminator area that IMCO had debut a new drive that was comparable to a #6. I dont believe it anymore!
Thanks Charlie I will look elsewere for my new drive. Who wants to buy a product that is not supported by its manufacturer!!
WW:rolleyes:

[DogHouse]

Charley, sorry to hear about the problem, ouch. I'm sure you'll get it sorted out.
As a reference for anyone considering the XR, I run a stock XR in a cat with a motor that made 813hp/770ft-lbs on the dyno, probably a little less in the boat with smaller headers and mufflers. I'm not particularly nice to it, although I don't really abuse it either. So far so good at about 80 hrs. Knock on wood, or my head, whichever is harder... :eek:

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

let's all go to the boat show again and picket in front of the display.. :D :D

[boatnam2]

what what his answer you had to much trim in it?

[Bow Tie Omega]

Charley, you should send IMCO a thread to this post and teach them the hard way what bad customer service will get them

[FastTimmy]

Charley, sorry to hear about you srew job. It is always sad when a company just F@*CKS the customer.
On the good side:
Hey there will be a new player on the block soon. Fortin engineering is wrapping up there first of two new drives. The first is bad as upper with no cone clutch, they use a idler set up insted. the second too come has a two speed box in the upper unit. Now you can't shift under power but you can have a normal speed gear and a great low gear for cruissing the no wake zones with big gears and big props.
Timmy

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

I still say picket in front of their booth.. and let everyone (potential customers) know what they are doing to people.. ;)

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
I still say picket in front of their booth.. and let everyone (potential customers) know what they are doing to people.. ;)
You should do it topless.

[FastTimmy]

I plan to give Fred and Rick a little heads up tomarrow at the show.
By the way miss-V Notice my update to my screen name or just bellow.
Just for you ;)

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Originally posted by FastTimmy
I plan to give Fred and Rick a little heads up tomarrow at the show.
By the way miss-V Notice my update to my screen name or just bellow.
Just for you ;)
ROTFLMAO!! I am laughing so hard and so loud. Jamie dropped his magazine.. LMAO!! you are funny.. Hey how is fast froggie.. ;) :D :D :D :D

[FastTimmy]

I thought he would like that..
So do you need a drive referral?

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by Bow Tie Omega
Charley, you should send IMCO a thread to this post and teach them the hard way what bad customer service will get them
I did it for him. Here is the copy of the email I sent to sales@imcomarine.com
I think you would be interested to see the reviews your Extreme SC is getting on the forums at Hot Boat.net. You can click here to see. http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39135&perpage=25&pagenumber=1 I would take the time to read to see how you can improve customer service. Thank You

[FastTimmy]

every one of us on the boards has five friends not on the boards.
That hurts...

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Originally posted by FastTimmy
every one of us on the boards has five friends not on the boards.
That hurts...
well i know I can tell more then that.. I know everyone in marina del rey that sell ,buy, and test all the boats.. and they are all kinds.. I know word will travel fast to Havasu, parker and so on..
my dad use to work for criscraft and he was also partners with jeff blosdale so that would not be a problem to let the consumers know how much imco is suckin wind.. :p

[Charley]

I'm very thankful to all you guys for this kind of support ... I really think I am doing all of my fellow ***boaters a service by sharing the info..... good service should be rewarded and poor service should be punished... just my opinion

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by FastTimmy
every one of us on the boards has five friends not on the boards.
I don't. I have to rent both of my friends.

[beer hunter]

Originally posted by Charley
I'm very thankful to all you guys for this kind of support ... I really think I am doing all of my fellow ***boaters a service by sharing the info..... good service should be rewarded and poor service should be punished... just my opinion
Thank you Charley, I'm sure there are many of us on the boards that will be spared the B.S. that I'm sure you are dealing with now :) Thanks again and LOL:D

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

when a winner makes a mistake, he says I was wrong.
when a loser is wrong, he says it wasn't my fault.
it seems to me that all the boaters here that are unhappy with IMCO are winners.. IMCO is the loser..:yuk:

[Jordy]

Originally posted by Charley
I really think I am doing all of my fellow ***boaters a service by sharing the info.....
You've opened my eyes. I'm kinda kicking around a grown up boat (relax, I'm keeping the yellow boat too) and have been browsing just to see what's out there. Even browsing around online tonight in the boat trader I find myself looking past anything with an IMCO drive on it as I don't want to deal with any bullshit down the road, and there seems to be a high potential for it with an IMCO hanging off the back. Oh well.

[Haullen270]

Charley, sorry to hear about your experiences with Imco. I am in the automotive dealership business and can't imagine telling any customer that they don't know how to drive, so sorry we are not going to warranty it or fix it unless you pay for it. Negative experiences travel fast and soon we would be out of business. If the car is over the mileage or time guidlelines, we still look into the problem and call the manufactorer and fight for some goodwill help. We never just shut someone down and try to get them off the phone with some bullshit excuse. Most people will own several cars in their life and us boaters will probably own a handful of boats in our boating life. The only way Imco is going to improve on their warranty policies is when their current actions and policies are seriously effecting them financially. If they don't change and we stick together they will eventually fad away.
Any negative experiences or news on Imco's new 4x4 drives?

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by jordanpaulk
...I'm kinda kicking around a grown up boat...
Does IMCO make velocity stacks?

[Jordy]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Does IMCO make velocity stacks?
Ya just had to go there. Like I said, I'm keeping the yellow boat so the velocity stack issue will be covered and won't have to be addressed on the boat with the kiddie cutter. :p :D

[BoatFloating]

Originally posted by Haullen270
Any negative experiences or news on Imco's new 4x4 drives?
I hear the lowers are the weak link there. Not as good as first thought.

[Kachina26]

Hey Charley,
I think it was classy of you to wait till things panned out before you posted. I also think you are right on to post this kind of info, we just got our boat but will upgrade to more size and power someday, I know what drive I won't be using. I too work at a dealership like Haullen270 and sometimes we take care of crap that I know was abuse, just to make sure we keep our good name. We always give the customer the benefit of the doubt, it just makes good sense. Bad enough when you make an honest mistake and word gets out, even worse when you intentionally screw people! IMCO needs to wake up and smell the publicity. Get with it guys! Alot of ***boaters with alot of disposable income are getting the wrong impression about you!

[CMABadseed]

gotta screw a company back when they screw ya! otherwise nothing gets done. hopefully something does get done. i think i've counted 6 people that were looking at IMCO and if only 4 ended up getting one....how much is that they are loosing? and all the guys waiting to fix their broken IMCO's that are just gonna go to MERC instead of dealing with all that BS!
good for charley good for ***boat.net members good for all but those who refuse to be good!

[wsuwrhr]

Originally posted by FastTimmy
Charley, sorry to hear about you srew job. It is always sad when a company just F@*CKS the customer.
On the good side:
Hey there will be a new player on the block soon. Fortin engineering is wrapping up there first of two new drives. The first is bad as upper with no cone clutch, they use a idler set up insted. the second too come has a two speed box in the upper unit. Now you can't shift under power but you can have a normal speed gear and a great low gear for cruissing the no wake zones with big gears and big props.
Timmy
Fortin builds some bad ass shiz, his transmissions are second to none. I am sure his drives will be just as good.
Brian

[carbonmarine]

So far I see warnings & idle threats of boycott.... Stainless
Marine, WPM, Merc and others take notice ! Potential coup for you !
In So far as IMCO & Others mentioned....The HB.com, OSO.com & Speedwake.com folks are sick of it ! You guys have 30 year old technology that you still charge a premium for why ???
Because your bitchen like Bob Teague ?? ( LOL )
** Seriously, What global industry has Gross Profit Marigin derivitive's that INCREASE with insuing year counts besides the marine industry ???
** I dont know about you guys, but my products GPM decreases quarterly at the same volumes ..... explain that dynamic ?
Lesson to all new comer's....** Approach you OEM relationships with much care & back it up..
Rick32 :cool: :cool:

[MASTERKENDOG]

Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
well i know I can tell more then that.. I know everyone in marina del rey that sell ,buy, and test all the boats.. and they are all kinds.. I know word will travel fast to Havasu, parker and so on..
my dad use to work for criscraft and he was also partners with jeff blosdale so that would not be a problem to let the consumers know how much imco is suckin wind.. :p
She's right! Sorry to hear that, Charley. Keep us posted, I'm real interested in hearing how Imco deals with this. Good Luck!
MKD.

[Hallett19]

does anyone see Merc steppin' up and taking Charlies SC's in trade for a kickdown on some new XR's !!?!? Could you imagine ??? IMCO would never sell another drive again !!!!

[HighRoller]

Somebody needs to email Mercury Racing and tell them about this golden opportunity. Even if I were a dealer like Teague or GT Marine I would be PM'ing Charley right now and telling him I'd give him a pair of my drives at cost minus the trade in value for those IMCO's. Result? Customer for life, IMCO loses his business permanently. My buddy was considering a pair of those pricey ass gatlin mufflers and I just emailed him with this story. Looks like Charley's debacle just cost them another 800 bucks.
P.S. 1091 views and counting, Mr. Inman!

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by wsuwrhr
Fortin builds some bad ass shiz, his transmissions are second to none. I am sure his drives will be just as good.
Ask GRASS PAY$ about the "indestructable" Fortin drive.

[MagicMtnDan]

Before this thread it was my impression that IMCO offered more expensive drives that were an alternative than those from Mercury.
Now I know that whatever IMCO sells they (a) won't stand behind them and (b) I need to stay away from them.
Life is too short to not learn from other peoples' experience.
1150 views now.

[HavasuDreamin']

Lets not forget that many boat manufactures also pay attention to the boards as well. I am sure after reading a thread like this that there will be a few less mfg.'s recomending IMCO drives, parts, or anything for that matter.
Mercury seems to know where it is at. :)

[SecondTake]

Add me to the list of those considering IMCO for bigger power on mine. Not any more though Great info and should be the basis for an add for merc.

[FastTimmy]

I am in need of a new XR type drive before the summer months. I have been saving for about 4 months now and have the cash to go.
I hear-by pledge that whom ever stands up and deals with this matter I will buy a drive from you before this summer starts....
If it be merc, teague, fortin, Imco or any other drive shop.now is the time to go big or go home..
Timmy

[gmocnik]

i posted in response to this issue on another thread so apologies for the repeat..
i have had very good experiences with drives built by gt performance...i had the "xr" upgrades done to my b1 and it has lasted over 100 hours behind a 750 hp motor. it was just torn down for inspection and no issues. gary stands behind his work and takes great pride in delivering top quality service.
give gary or phil a call...
what the heck, tell 'em gary m sent you...if charley can pimp dcb, i can pimp gt....both top notch companies in my opinion
good luck
gary m

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

so just currious about what IMCO has said about there big F**k up to all the people on here. and else where..

[Jordy]

Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
so just currious about what IMCO has said about there big F**k up to all the people on here. and else where..
Dammit, they didn't have a **** up, it's these guys who don't know how to drive their boats properly. :D
I did figure out what the SC stands for:
$uper Costly. ;)

[beer hunter]

Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
so just currious about what IMCO has said about there big F**k up to all the people on here. and else where..
I'm quite sure they'll be losing some sales at the show and elsewhere and will probably need to make a PR statement of some sorts:D

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

LMAO!! we were going to put the imco in our new 29' but now they are assed out.. lookin for something else where the warranty is a warranty not the drivers fault.. ;)

[FastTimmy]

I have sent a few e-mails out to some of the drive guys that I know of and will look for some more on the web later today.
I will send them a link to this thread aswell.

[HighRoller]

IMCO service bulletin:
With regards to the drive failures on our SC models, we have come up with a solution that we hope will be quick and cost-efficient to our owners.
1.)Place drive(s) in the lowest position before launching.
2.)Cut wires to trim switch
3.) Learn how to drive and shut up.
If you have any questions regarding this upgrade, too bad. We got your money and have to pay for the MTI. Deal with it.
Sincerely,
IMCO

[Whipped Caliber]

With the XR style u joint UPGRADE has anyone had a problem with the drive? As I had my SC upgraded. It’s not on the boat so I haven’t run it. :rolleyes:

[STV_Keith]

With the boat show going on, does IMCO have a space? Be kinda funny to print out a sheet on the failure and IMCO's response, and hand them out to everyone as they walked up.

[STV_Keith]

Hey Whipped, at least it's still under warranty, since you haven't run it yet. :rolleyes:
Perhaps you should be thinking about switching it before your new ride hits the water. :frown:

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Originally posted by STV_Keith
With the boat show going on, does IMCO have a space? Be kinda funny to print out a sheet on the failure and IMCO's response, and hand them out to everyone as they walked up. I still say picket in front of there space.. :D :D

[Whipped Caliber]

Originally posted by STV_Keith
Hey Whipped, at least it's still under warranty, since you haven't run it yet.
Perhaps you should be thinking about switching it before your new ride hits the water.
With this post I will get alot of buyers!!!!;)

[SecondTake]

Originally posted by RiverDave
Well according to this thread....
I think Imco lost the sales of 6 (maybe) or 7 drives..
And whom ever steps up to help Charley is gauranteed to sell one more (fast timmy's)
interesting.... the power of the internet.
RD
Mine takes two for the tally!

[Screaming Pete]

Originally posted by MRS FLYIN VEE
I still say picket in front of there space.. :D :D
Mrs.Flying Vee, only if your whereing that RRL baby doll T,, Got to keep trying LOL
Charlie thanks for the heads up, I know you would never post anything like that just to start some crap without giving IMCO more than an oppertunity to come correct..Wev'e been looking for a mach 26 (used) and now i'll shy away from ones with IMCO crap on the back. Thanks for the heads up

[PerfectionDtail]

I was getting ready to buy 2 IMCO lower unit nose cones cases. Not any more.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Originally posted by Screaming Pete
Mrs.Flying Vee, only if your whereing that RRL baby doll T,, Got to keep trying LOL
Charlie thanks for the heads up, I know you would never post anything like that just to start some crap without giving IMCO more than an oppertunity to come correct..Wev'e been looking for a mach 26 (used) and now i'll shy away from ones with IMCO crap on the back. Thanks for the heads up
I will wear ir. that's not a problem..;) as long as everyone who is not happy with them will walk in cicles with me..:D ;)

[HighRoller]

Ouch, this is getting expensive for Fred! 10 drive sales gone plus two lowers. Can somebody add that up for me?
P.S. 1727 and counting!

[HavasuDreamin']

I wonder if IMCO will respond to this thread? :confused:
Unless they respond, I think it is safe to say they have the arrogant attitude of "we are IMCO and will survive just fine with or without you peeps."
I would really like to see a response from someone at IMCO. :rolleyes:

[Chris Winn]

I am about to add full hydrolic steering to my new (er) Magic. Magic is going to start the install this next week, and they were (I will now emphasize the WERE, going to install IMCO full hydrolic to the helm steering) i am now going to ask that they source the parts froma differen supplier (F*ch that, I will insist). I was at the boat show on Saturday, and when i met with Magic, this was the kit that they were recommending for me to run, not any more!!!!
Now that I have said this, who shoudl I get the steering from????
(remember that i want it all the way to the helm, and tilt wheel would still be nice!!!);)

[ROZ]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
I am about to add full hydrolic steering to my new (er) Magic. Magic is going to start the install this next week, and they were (I will now emphasize the WERE, going to install IMCO full hydrolic to the helm steering) i am now going to ask that they source the parts froma differen supplier (F*ch that, I will insist). I was at the boat show on Saturday, and when i met with Magic, this was the kit that they were recommending for me to run, not any more!!!!
Now that I have said this, who shoudl I get the steering from????
(remember that i want it all the way to the helm, and tilt wheel would still be nice!!!);)
Looks veeeery familiar...lol
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=574325
:D

[Chris Winn]

PS i have spoke with Charley online, and he seems to be a really nice guy! He lives close to me, and our boats do pose a slight resemblance!:D
the approach that cxharley is taking is very wise, we all have a certain amoutn of money to spend, and thsi money needs to be channeled to companies that care and service this community (my .02 worth)
best of luck Charley, if they make thsi right with you, I will conitnue the purchase of their equipment, but if not (the clock is ticking)

[Chris Winn]

One of these days I will learn to type slower than I think!!!
Sorry for the bad spelling???

[carbonmarine]

Power steering guys: WPM, Latham Marine,.....
I'd go with Latham !
** They are very much offshore sturdy and their hardware looks great .....
Rick32
IN Fact : you might want to Bring this thread to Latham's Atatention. I am sure they would in light of the situation would have a Special for us west coast rape victims....

[Chris Winn]

Thanks Carbon,
I am going to look into these, i have to see what work that Magic has done with these companies.
this gonna be fun!!

[Three Days Only]

Charlie,
Jay at Spectre's got a set of XR's with the Sportmaster Lowers with swept skegs for sale 16K. Brand new in the box. It just cost me 6700.00 to completely rebuild one drive and service the other. If you really feel your going to have more failures it might be worth it to change them out and say **** IMCO. What are they worth if they wont stand behind their shit. I cant wait till fred starts blowing up those 4X4's on that MTI, and his boat ends up sitting on the beach all weekend. We wont see any love from me.
3DO.

[Three Days Only]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
I am about to add full hydrolic steering to my new (er) Magic. Magic is going to start the install this next week, and they were (I will now emphasize the WERE, going to install IMCO full hydrolic to the helm steering) i am now going to ask that they source the parts froma differen supplier (F*ch that, I will insist). I was at the boat show on Saturday, and when i met with Magic, this was the kit that they were recommending for me to run, not any more!!!!
Now that I have said this, who shoudl I get the steering from????
(remember that i want it all the way to the helm, and tilt wheel would still be nice!!!);)
MARINE MACHINE OR LATHAM WITHOUT A DOUBT

[boxscore]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
I am about to add full hydrolic steering to my new (er) Magic. Magic is going to start the install this next week, and they were (I will now emphasize the WERE, going to install IMCO full hydrolic to the helm steering) i am now going to ask that they source the parts froma differen supplier (F*ch that, I will insist). I was at the boat show on Saturday, and when i met with Magic, this was the kit that they were recommending for me to run, not any more!!!!
Now that I have said this, who shoudl I get the steering from????
(remember that i want it all the way to the helm, and tilt wheel would still be nice!!!);)
I have full hydraulic to the helm with WPM. Very happy with it, DCB uses it, and they seem to like it too.

[Chris Winn]

thanks guys-
I am going to look into these both, (i want to have the work done in the next two weeks so that i can have it ready for the new motor (I will have alot of fun testing props and set-ups after that).
I know that I have read about both, My boat is going to back at Magic for some minor adjustments, and i want them to do the install while it is in there for the work.
Now the fun begins- Where can I get the best price on the steering (sorry Charley, I'm really not trying to highjack your thread, but it's good if Imco takes notice that we are allready eliminating them from our options!)
chris

[carbonmarine]

Talk to Michelle Jessup at Magic.... She knows all the guys
at Latham and other componet co in Florida.....
Rick32:cool:

[Dave C]

I got WPM steering. so far so good.
FYI, I'll be going XR and WPM too on new boat......;)

[Chris Winn]

thanks guys-
i did go witht he XR when i bought the boat (only paid $1500 for the upgrade) i figured it was cheap insurance! i am going to talk to magic and see what my options are.

[Chris Winn]

Hey Carbon-
you have the sunsation if i remember correct? are you going to out and about in Newport beach this weekend, we are going to down at Hooter and Cassisdy's on Sat while our wifes are at a baby shower.
i have a friend who is buying a new baot right now, he has looked at Magic (i'm biased) but really liked the 29t Hallet. if you were around are you into taking anyone for a ride on Sat in your sunsation, we could supply the drinks??
pm if you are interested.

[DogHouse]

I'm building a new boat that's going to have 22 outdrives on it. Was going to buy IMCOs, not any more.
:D
ps: Charley, did you happen to ask Larry if he could help put in a good word over at IMCO for you? I know he generates a lot of business for them.

[1stepcloser]

Originally posted by Chris Winn
I am about to add full hydraulic steering to my new(er) Magic. who should I get the steering from????
(remember that I want it all the way to the helm, and tilt wheel would still be nice!!!);)
Without a doubt, Call Warlock Performance Marine in Corona.
(909) 371-8247.
They can do the full hydraulic system, in any configuration you want, with no drama.
Pricing is very competitive, if not better than "the other guys".
And, they know what Customer Service means.
I have WPM's system on my boat, trouble free for three seasons.
:cool:

[Tom Brown]

Originally posted by DogHouse
Charley, did you happen to ask Larry if he could help put in a good word over at IMCO for you? I know he generates a lot of business for them.
It would be interesting to hear the reaction of dealers who hype Imco drives to these service stories. It sounds like these situations are far from isolated so watching to see who keeps talking-up Imco will be a bit of an honesty test.
Charley, perhaps you should send a copy of this thread to the builders and dealers who are big Imco proponents.
By the way Charley, I feel bad about how this has gone so far. I hope something works out for you.

[beer hunter]

Originally posted by carbonmarine
IN Fact : you might want to Bring this thread to Latham's Atatention. I am sure they would in light of the situation would have a Special for us west coast rape victims....
LMAO:D

[Chris Winn]

thanks one step,
i am going to give them a call right now and see what they can do for me, i might even make the haul ou to havasu to pick up my boat and bring it to them if they cannot recommend someone to install it (mabey Magic?) in havasu.
i thing any system is going to survive just fine in my boat, i am not pushing any major power (yet!!!) but i do have a motor that i am in the process of contemplating.
but i will not give the buisness to IMCO, if they treat a high dollar customer (Charley) like this then they wont give 2 Tom Browns about me!
we need to support to people that take our needs into consdiration, and show our mutual support for our friends on this board.

[Charley]

Well... I have to admit I was truly not expecting this situation to be worked out, especially so quickly, but it has. Fred Inman Sr. and I spoke this morning on the phone about my situation and we have reached an agreement/concession that will both satisfy me personally and also renew my hope with Imco and thier commitment to service after the sale. I would prefer not to divulge all of the details, but one very important factor for me, and all of you, was that according to Fred Sr., Imco will be more receptive when dealing with people when we have parts failures.... basically looking at the individual situation rather than a blanket style assumption. Lets be honest, high performance parts do break... sometimes it's the consumers fault sometimes it's the manufacturers.... I guess with my situation we will never Truly Know exactly what happend, but a smart business owner(Fred Sr.) and a boat owner (Me) were able to reach a fair compromise that renews my personal hope in them as a company and thier products. I hope and believe this means a higher level of service from Imco to all of us... Thank you to all of you for the support here and PM responses too, thanks to all of you my family and I can put this situation behind us and get back to boating ;):D :D

[carbonmarine]

Chris,
Hooters/ Cassady's on Sat.... Let me tell you to have theburgers at Cassady's...make sure you put that Peppers Sauce on 'em too ! ... AMAZING !
Send me a PM with you Cell #... I'll see if I cant make it down to have a cold beer & a Burger wityh you guys !
Cheer's,
Rick32:cool:
PS. The Sunsation is in Storage....

[beer hunter]

Originally posted by Charley
Well... I have to admit I was truly not expecting this situation to be worked out, especially so quickly, but it has. Fred Inman Sr. and I spoke this morning on the phone about my situation and we have reached an agreement/concession that will both satisfy me personally and also renew my hope with Imco and thier commitment to service after the sale. I would prefer not to divulge all of the details, but one very important factor for me, and all of you, was that according to Fred Sr., Imco will be more receptive when dealing with people when we have parts failures.... basically looking at the individual situation rather than a blanket style assumption. Lets be honest, high performance parts do break... sometimes it's the consumers fault sometimes it's the manufacturers.... I guess with my situation we will never Truly Know exactly what happend, but a smart business owner(Fred Sr.) and a boat owner (Me) were able to reach a fair compromise that renews my personal hope in them as a company and thier products. I hope and believe this means a higher level of service from Imco to all of us... Thank you to all of you for the support here and PM responses too, thanks to all of you my family and I can put this situation behind us and get back to boating ;):D :D
That's great news Charley! :D It sounds like they realized the error in their ways and will work better with all of us in the future:) Keep us posted:)

[Screaming Pete]

Great News Charley, And POWER To The PEOPLE:cool:

[hot_diggity_dog]

Originally posted by Charley
Well... I have to admit I was truly not expecting this situation to be worked out, especially so quickly, but it has. Fred Inman Sr. and I spoke this morning on the phone about my situation and we have reached an agreement/concession that will both satisfy me personally and also renew my hope with Imco and thier commitment to service after the sale. I would prefer not to divulge all of the details, but one very important factor for me, and all of you, was that according to Fred Sr., Imco will be more receptive when dealing with people when we have parts failures.... basically looking at the individual situation rather than a blanket style assumption. Lets be honest, high performance parts do break... sometimes it's the consumers fault sometimes it's the manufacturers.... I guess with my situation we will never Truly Know exactly what happend, but a smart business owner(Fred Sr.) and a boat owner (Me) were able to reach a fair compromise that renews my personal hope in them as a company and thier products. I hope and believe this means a higher level of service from Imco to all of us... Thank you to all of you for the support here and PM responses too, thanks to all of you my family and I can put this situation behind us and get back to boating ;):D :D
That's why it is so important to be able to talk freely, about each individual experience, and or problems each boat owner is having with manufactures.
Power in numbers
HDD

[Rock-it man]

Originally posted by Charley
Well... I have to admit I was truly not expecting this situation to be worked out, especially so quickly, but it has. Fred Inman Sr. and I spoke this morning on the phone about my situation and we have reached an agreement/concession that will both satisfy me personally and also renew my hope with Imco and thier commitment to service after the sale. I would prefer not to divulge all of the details, but one very important factor for me, and all of you, was that according to Fred Sr., Imco will be more receptive when dealing with people when we have parts failures.... basically looking at the individual situation rather than a blanket style assumption. Lets be honest, high performance parts do break... sometimes it's the consumers fault sometimes it's the manufacturers.... I guess with my situation we will never Truly Know exactly what happend, but a smart business owner(Fred Sr.) and a boat owner (Me) were able to reach a fair compromise that renews my personal hope in them as a company and thier products. I hope and believe this means a higher level of service from Imco to all of us... Thank you to all of you for the support here and PM responses too, thanks to all of you my family and I can put this situation behind us and get back to boating ;):D :D
Great you got it resolved ,ive done a lot of bussiness with IMCO and went to bat for you also ,they have provided a good service to me so far and it was upseting to here about the challange you had with them . I have the 4x4 and have been happy to date. It was great to meet you at the Boat Show and thanks for the intro to Dave ,he seems to be a great guy and really knows his boats,DCB will be a boat Ill consider when I build my next one probably in 2005 and it will be a twin engine for sure. Would really like to go for a ride in your boat if your at the Heatwave in April .Ill be there for sure !!! ROCKIT MAN

[WetWillie]

Will IMCO be stepping up to the plate and supporting some fo the other Drive destructors on the boards? Or were the circumstances completely different?
WW

[Tom Brown]

It's always impressive when a manufacturer stands behind their product. :cool:

[Blown 472]

Well hot damn, lets all have a bran muffin to celibrate.

[CEO]

I guess the "Big guy" didn't want the rath of the CEO in person!!;) That had to be it. I'm glad it is all good Charley

[gnarley]

Charley, glad it worked out. I sent IMCO an email giving them my thoughts and stating I would NEVER buy anything with the IMCO name on it. If I get a reply I will rescind my earlier statement to them.

[Rock-it man]

Maybe they got the message that HOT BOAT FORUM RULES !!!!
Its amazing what the internet has done now its not one against the establishment but the wishes of all interested can be told.

[burtandnancy]

What happened to "there are two sides to every story?"

[Charley]

updated info please read the original post:D

[Three Days Only]

Well, I will take back all that was said. Im glad to see a manufacture stands behind his product. Hopefully we will see the MTI running and not on the beach. Good carma goes along way!!!
3DO

[Infomaniac]

That is great man.
IMCO could just as easily whined to Hot Boat about this being on their board and have it removed. Not that it has ever happened in the past with other manufacturers. :rolleyes:
Glad they dealt with it this way. :cool:

[HavasuDreamin']

I think it is great that they stepped up for you. However, I am still skeptical of a company whose initial thought process is how to weasel out of doing what is right and not standing behind their product. :(

[FastTimmy]

Good to hear it charley. I sent you a PM on this but it looks like I will be getting a new SC drive here soon.
Timmy

[FastTimmy]

Charley,
I know this is asking a lot form you but I pledged to buy a drive from who ever took care of this. Are you personally satisfied with the out come and can honestly say that you think IMCO has learned there lesson. There can be a difference between being satisfied and having renewed faith in a company.
Please PM me if needed!
Thanks
Timmy

[MagicMtnDan]

I've stayed with this thread through all the posts and pages and I'm glad to see that you were able to work things out for your situation.
But what's not clear to me (not that my understanding of this is important) is what's IMCO's position on standing behind their products. I'm not sure that their solving your problem clarifies how/if they're going to stand behind their products?!
While this thread was about your problem and them originally blowing you off - it looks like it's come full circle and your problem is apparently solved to your satisfaction.
What about others who might have the same problem or other problems with IMCO's products? Do they have to air their problems in public on boards like these to get IMCO to offer quality customer service? What is IMCO's position on this?
I was hoping there'd be more clarity on this issue. Like I said, my personal understanding of this issue isn't so important since I'm not likely to buy IMCO products right away but for the rest of the folks who've posted and read this thread, I'm wondering how their resolution of your problem impacts them.
(This is in no way meant to sound like criticism of you Charley - you got your problem solved to your satisfaction and that's great. What I don't understand is where IMCO's at in regard to dealing with customer service issues on their products).

[FastTimmy]

Well said!!

[Dave C]

Right on.:D
This is great. Guy has broken drive, big fat drive company tells guy to drop dead, guy tells all his friends, friends tell big fat company to drop dead, guy gets drive fixed……
I guess there is some justice in life after all.;)

[Skullinator]

I still think it suck's that it took 6 pages of people getting upset to have them finally stand behind there product. What about the other people who's repairs cost them thousand's of dollars because they didn't post there problems on the forums. they should have stepped up to the plate the first time. I think i'll still take my business elsewhere just due to the fact that they tried to screw someone over.

[HighRoller]

You guys make a good point. Why should we consider them doing what they should do as a monumental acheivement? Sounds like they did it to shut people up, not to satisfy anyone. Can you say hush money?

[MagicMtnDan]

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
I've stayed with this thread through all the posts and pages and I'm glad to see that you were able to work things out for your situation.
But what's not clear to me (not that my understanding of this is important) is what's IMCO's position on standing behind their products. I'm not sure that their solving your problem clarifies how/if they're going to stand behind their products?!
While this thread was about your problem and them originally blowing you off - it looks like it's come full circle and your problem is apparently solved to your satisfaction.
What about others who might have the same problem or other problems with IMCO's products? Do they have to air their problems in public on boards like these to get IMCO to offer quality customer service? What is IMCO's position on this?
I was hoping there'd be more clarity on this issue. Like I said, my personal understanding of this issue isn't so important since I'm not likely to buy IMCO products right away but for the rest of the folks who've posted and read this thread, I'm wondering how their resolution of your problem impacts them.
(This is in no way meant to sound like criticism of you Charley - you got your problem solved to your satisfaction and that's great. What I don't understand is where IMCO's at in regard to dealing with customer service issues on their products).
Charley, since no one from IMCO has commented, can you answer this question for IMCO? I don't want to put you on the spot but did you talk to them about your post on the board and other peoples' issues/problems with their products?
I'm just wondering how others will be treated if they have the same of different problems than yours...

[Tom Brown]

Originally posted by RiverDave
So what exactly can they do at this point to not be condemned on this forum?
They dropped the ball, Dave. Good for them for picking it up but they tried to screw a customer. If they had checked everything over and decided it was driver error, that would be a completely different issue. To write it off as driver error without seeing it... not good.
If they take these cases on one at a time and try to provide customer support where it is deserved, the way they seem to be indicating they are going to do from now on, they will win back buyer confidence. That has not happened at this time, although it looks like it might.
For what it's worth, I hope Imco builds a good product, stands behind it, and runs an enjoyable and profitable business for years to come. That would be great for everyone.
-- Tom :)

[FastTimmy]

I'm still waiting....:(
I can't say it any better..
Timmy
MagicMtnDan
I've stayed with this thread through all the posts and pages and I'm glad to see that you were able to work things out for your situation.
But what's not clear to me (not that my understanding of this is important) is what's IMCO's position on standing behind their products. I'm not sure that their solving your problem clarifies how/if they're going to stand behind their products?!
While this thread was about your problem and them originally blowing you off - it looks like it's come full circle and your problem is apparently solved to your satisfaction.
What about others who might have the same problem or other problems with IMCO's products? Do they have to air their problems in public on boards like these to get IMCO to offer quality customer service? What is IMCO's position on this?
I was hoping there'd be more clarity on this issue. Like I said, my personal understanding of this issue isn't so important since I'm not likely to buy IMCO products right away but for the rest of the folks who've posted and read this thread, I'm wondering how their resolution of your problem impacts them.
(This is in no way meant to sound like criticism of you Charley - you got your problem solved to your satisfaction and that's great. What I don't understand is where IMCO's at in regard to dealing with customer service issues on their products).

[HavasuDreamin']

Originally posted by RiverDave
So what exactly can they do at this point to not be condemned on this forum?
RD <---- likes IMCO shiznit.
It's not that tough. :rolleyes: Jump on the computer and post their position (on standing behind their product), or allow someone else (Charley or another) to speak on their behalf.
Their silence is not building anyone's confidence.

[Charley]

Originally posted by MagicMtnDan
I was hoping there'd be more clarity on this issue. Like I said, my personal understanding of this issue isn't so important since I'm not likely to buy IMCO products right away but for the rest of the folks who've posted and read this thread, I'm wondering how their resolution of your problem impacts them.
(This is in no way meant to sound like criticism of you Charley - you got your problem solved to your satisfaction and that's great. What I don't understand is where IMCO's at in regard to dealing with customer service issues on their products).
Sorry for not posting sooner.... just seeing this now.... I agree with you completely... I honestly didn't think this situation would resolve itself, and definitely not so quickly. This is what I will tell you... When I got on the phone with Fred Sr. the first thing he said to me was that he was sorry that he had not been involved in my situation from the beginning... right away I thought... that was important and appreciated the comment. It was important to hear that because the guy I did speak with originally truly ended up pissing me off and really was the deciding factor to post this thread in the first place. Fred at IMCO did indeed offer me monetary compensation to help make my situation right.... he also requested I make it known on HB.net that the situation had been resolved, now before I agreed to take the money I asked for Fred Sr's commitment on one important concession (to me). That he talk with the guy who recieve the parts failures phone calls and instruct them to have a more open minded approach with IMCO customers and more importantly deal with each individual's situation rather than a "blanket assumption" on why the "drive" or "whatever" failed. Lets be honest here if I was running 900 -1000 HP into my IMCO EXTREME drive I probably wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but my "situation" (horsepower,boat, cat driving experience,hours,proper drive services performed etc...) merited a little deeper look, with an open mind on thier behalf which I felt never truly happend. I can not guarantee that IMCO will follow through with a new outlook on service and failure evaluation, but I absolutely did get a commitment from Fred Sr. on that very important point. I hope this clears things up a bit guys... hush money? Not in my eyes... I actually have some faith that IMCO will learn something from this situation and I hope many of you will both Praise Imco for stepping up and follow through on drilling them on the fact that "Service makes people come back"
If you are planning on buying an Imco drive and have concerns... I would call Fred Sr. or Jr. before buying the drive to confirm what IMCO's future stance is on service. Thats the best I can do!

[Charley]

dunno what happend to my reply but here goes again:
Sorry for not posting sooner.... just seeing this now.... I agree with you completely... I honestly didn't think this situation would resolve itself, and definitely not so quickly. This is what I will tell you... When I got on the phone with Fred Sr. the first thing he said to me was that he was sorry that he had not been involved in my situation from the beginning... right away I thought... that was important and appreciated the comment. It was important to hear that because the guy I did speak with originally truly ended up pissing me off and really was the deciding factor to post this thread in the first place. Fred at IMCO did indeed offer me monetary compensation to help make my situation right.... he also requested I make it known on HB.net that the situation had been resolved, now before I agreed to take the money I asked for Fred Sr's commitment on one important concession (to me). That he talk with the guy who recieve the parts failures phone calls and instruct them to have a more open minded approach with IMCO customers and more importantly deal with each individual's situation rather than a "blanket assumption" on why the "drive" or "whatever" failed. Lets be honest here if I was running 900 -1000 HP into my IMCO EXTREME drive I probably wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but my "situation" (horsepower,boat, cat driving experience,hours,proper drive services performed etc...) merited a little deeper look, with an open mind on thier behalf which I felt never truly happend. I can not guarantee that IMCO will follow through with a new outlook on service and failure evaluation, but I absolutely did get a commitment from Fred Sr. on that very important point. I hope this clears things up a bit guys... hush money? Not in my eyes... I actually have some faith that IMCO will learn something from this situation and I hope many of you will both Praise Imco for stepping up and follow through on drilling them on the fact that "Service makes people come back"
If you are planning on buying an Imco drive and have concerns... I would call Fred Sr. or Jr. before buying the drive to confirm what IMCO's future stance is on service. Thats the best I can do!

[Charley]

I HAVE NO IDEA!!!!!!!!!!

[Charley]

maybe big brother is watching... if so thats too bad

[Charley]

I just saved my text into a word doc and there are no lines.... someone is screwing with my post :(

[Charley]

Originally posted by Tom Brown
If they take these cases on one at a time and try to provide customer support where it is deserved, the way they seem to be indicating they are going to do from now on, they will win back buyer confidence. That has not happened at this time, although it looks like it might.
For what it's worth, I hope Imco builds a good product, stands behind it, and runs an enjoyable and profitable business for years to come. That would be great for everyone.
-- Tom :)
Here Here..... Absolutely what I said, and a commitment in the future from Fred Sr. on that very point was a mandatory part of my arrangement..... I'm out of town till Monday Guys... I hope this clears things up a bit.. :D

[Charley]

That helped hehehe
who said RD isn't still a moderator lmao

[Charley]

Thanks RD for da help :D :D

[FastTimmy]

Thank You Charley
It is good to see power to the people!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom Brown]

If he's smart, he'll wait to see how Charley's situation works out.

[FastTimmy]

RiverDave
So Timmy... are ya buying the Imco?
The answer is YES!
However I do plan to have a talk with Fred Jr. first. I would like to tell them the same thing Charley did. Let them know were I'm coming from and what we/I expect from a company of there status.
If I get the same feelling Charley did from Fred Sr. as to fact this was a error and they do see the need to give us a chance then yes I wil buy with confidence and pride.
Timmy