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cc322
02-03-2004, 08:34 PM
After visiting several boat builders @ the show my buddy has a tough choice to make . He happened to see Laser boats and fell in love with the 23 Apex. I must admit it is a really big boat, the interior is very big, and seems like a solid boat. The kicker is, it is a bigger boat, more interior room, and is priced below the Lavey. I know that the Lavey is a great boat but he uses his boat at havasu all the time , so his thinking is the apex is two feet longer and so much wider,translates into a smoother ride? here we go again any thoughts:D

rivercrazy
02-03-2004, 08:43 PM
Is the Laser measured on bottom running length basis or does that measurement include the swim step! The Lavey has a real 21 foot running bottom not including the integrated step (therefore about a 23 footer overall)
Make sure you compare apples to apples is my recommendation

Dr. Eagle
02-03-2004, 08:45 PM
In order to remove the need for choice...buy a Bayliner...:D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1152MVC-218F-med.JPG

cc322
02-03-2004, 09:10 PM
True 23 running surface not counting bolted on swim steps

rivercrazy
02-03-2004, 09:12 PM
How deep is the V? I think the Lavey is 21 degrees.
IMHO the Lavey is better quality overall, but if the V is similar the Laser would probably ride better. Is it a step bottom?

cc322
02-03-2004, 09:28 PM
No step in the bottom here are the specs
Lavey
length-22'8
beam-88
deadrise at transom-20 degrees
approx weight with engine-3800lbs
Laser
length-22'10
beam-100
deadrise-19
entry-35 degrees
approx weight-3500
Theese are with 496 engines, notice the weight the Lavey is about 300 lbs heavier if they are the same engines?
I probed through the laser very good and it is a well thought out boat imo .

LASERRAY
02-03-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
In order to remove the need for choice...buy a Bayliner...:D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1152MVC-218F-med.JPG Here, Here! I second that ole' Boy!:D

rivercrazy
02-03-2004, 09:36 PM
I've never ridden in the Laser but I have ridden and driven the Lavey. It has a great solid ride in the chop and feels bigger than it really is. The things I remember about it beyond great ride in chop was it felt really well put together. The only negative I can think of was that during hard cornering, it had the tendancy to walk side to side. Not big deal though but probably a result of an aggressive step design.
That beam of 100 will probably let you sit 4 across the back bench seat versus 3 in an 88" incher

Dr. Eagle
02-03-2004, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by LASERRAY
Here, Here! I second that ole' Boy!:D
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

K9Blitz
02-03-2004, 09:38 PM
I personally prefer the look of the laser. But I'm an Essex guy, so if I didn't step up and say that it would be like talkin' crap on my cousin or something like that.
Regardless, I like the Laser.

LASERRAY
02-03-2004, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by K9Blitz
I personally prefer the look of the laser. But I'm an Essex guy, so if I didn't step up and say that it would be like talkin' crap on my cousin or something like that.
Regardless, I like the Laser. Wanna Trade?;) :D

Dr. Eagle
02-03-2004, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by K9Blitz
Regardless, I like the Laser.
Gosh, hope you weren't looking to attend any regattas this year...:D

LASERRAY
02-03-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Gosh, hope you weren't looking to attend any regattas this year...:D :mad: :mad: :mad: :D ;)

Dr. Eagle
02-03-2004, 09:45 PM
I know.....................it should be Dr. Evil.............................:D

cc322
02-04-2004, 09:11 PM
Thats it :confused:

Dr. Eagle
02-04-2004, 09:51 PM
Looks like that is it!!!!!
Sorry for hijackin...
:( :D

bordsmnj
02-04-2004, 10:02 PM
sharper v can also mean slower.i think the lavey doesn't use very much wood in their construction. lots a molded parts . all this fiber glass is heavier the a bunch of wood but lasts forever- no rot. to be honest i don't know if the laser uses wood or not.:confused: :D

cigarette1
02-04-2004, 10:03 PM
Always remember, one day you are going to want to sell
?? Let me see .... Laser .... Lavey .... Laser .... Lavey ???
;)

rivercrazy
02-04-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Sharper V doesn't always translate into a smoother ride in rough water.. ;)
RD
Generally speaking thought that is accurate. Strake design and weight also play important roles. But again a 21 degree V will almost always ride better than say an 18

mbrown2
02-04-2004, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
In any event... most of those old school "bull nose" day cruisers DO ride better then the new school sharp V raked bottom boats... with less of a V as well.
If that is the case, then why are most of the leading Ski teams running Cyclones which have a steeper V, or other Aussie steeper based hulls?
Just think that they are competitive, but not as competitive as some of the newer hulls
:confused:

Essex502
02-05-2004, 07:01 AM
Laser and Essex have common owners. You're really buying a lower-end Essex. So...having said that...ride in both and decide. I don't think you will go wrong with either choice.
BTW...a 23'er in Havasu ain't enough...think 25' or bigger!:D

OGShocker
02-05-2004, 07:40 AM
I believe in DANA. I know it is not on your short list but, drive thier 23'er. Drive any of the boats you are looking at. NEVER give a deposit for a boat ride! Some builders demand this at first but most will back down. Drive them ALL!
Then come to Dana Boats. (http://www.danaboats.com/23-ob-overview.htm) :D
Centerline 23'
Beam 96"
Deadrise 21 deg at transom
Fuel capacity 64 Gal
Weight 3800 pounds
Engine Mercury 496 Mag
Drive Bravo One
Prop Mercury Stainless 15 1/4 X 24, 4 blade
Top speed 65 GPS @ 4500RPM
Yet another shameless plug!
OGS

rivercrazy
02-05-2004, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by RiverDave
Sharper V's have alot of disadvantages to them as well..
Sharper the V, the worse it is while its tied up to a dock. Shallower the V, the less it rolls from side to side as it's tied up.. Typically sharper V's lose mph over traditional less V's... Incorporate in steps to make them faster and now you have handling issues.. (although I'll say I've been in a 21 Lavey and it felt fine to me in terms of it's turning abillities) Sharper V's are also more succeptable to leaning with uneven weight in the boat etc.. often requiring more driver input or "tab" etc..
RD
I agree with what your saying here for the most part. That is the disadvantages of deeper V designs. I will add one more disadvantage to your list. Its easier to induce chine walking at high speeds the deeper the V.
But I stand by my comment about the ride quality of a deeper V. They cut through chop much better and push water to both sides. When the nose and stern rises over waves, the deeper V re-enters the water easier with less hull slap. When you create a surface the penetrates the water easier, it will naturally re-enter the water with less drama. And when you get a Deep V
Its all some level of trade off between ride quality and top speed. Some designs give you both without any of the major drama of the very agressive step bottoms. Most of the agressive step bottoms I've test driven leave a lot to be desired in the turning and getting up on plane departments. When I made a choice of my last boat, I weighed these factors very heavily. Overall handling, turning, and top speed lead me to my choice. You can have a great handling and turning package with competitive top speeds if you shop carefully. My advise to anyone is to test drive as many boats in the size class your considering and really wring them out. Not just top speeds but various turning diameters at different speeds and if different types of chop (like boat wakes, light wind chop, very heavy wind driven waves, and washing machine boat wake conditions)

eliminatedsprinter
02-05-2004, 09:37 AM
Ride in them. Then decide.
P.S. How did you get down to just Laser and Lavey? It seems to me everyone and his brother makes a boat or two in this size range. Shoot, Eliminator makes 3, I think...But then again, I can only think of two for sure off the top of my head......